Counsel, could you tell me what happened at the zoning board, the RCO meeting?
Yeah, nobody showed up, basically. And the leadership, you know, just heard us. And I
I believe they sent a report to you.
I did not receive a report.
Hillary, we don't have anything, do we?
We do not, Mr. Chair.
Okay, all right, thank you.
Yeah, but we did, I mean, there's proof of the mailing and, of course, of the, sorry, we have a lot of pictures here.
By the way, it's also already broken up with electric as well, and I do have plans to submit.
And here's the letter that went out. And here are all the different addresses that were mailed for a total of 152 individual households.
Okay, bring your client on, please.
If Mr. Gersing could please raise his hand.
Billion Gersing has been allowed to speak.
Thank you.
Yes, I'm on.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Yes, my name is Killian Gersing. First name Killian, K-I-L-I-A-N, last name Gersing, G-E-R-S-I-N-G.
Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Please proceed, counsel.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Gersing, did you hear my presentation to the board this morning?
I did.
Is it true and accurate to the best of your knowledge?
It is.
And do you adopt it as your own testimony?
I do. Thank you.
Questions from the board?
No, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?
Not at this time, Mr.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
We have Conlon Crosley with their hand raised. They have been allowed to speak.
Good morning. Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Good morning. My name is Conlon Crosley, C-O-N-L-A-N.
crossley c-r-o-s-l-e-y you swear a firm to wait a minute do you swear a firm to tell the truth
the whole truth nothing but the truth i do uh are you a neighbor no sir i work for uh councilman
young the fifth district councilman okay and i have a letter from the coordinating rco
Norman Wooten. I wanted to read it out. He sent it to me
a few weeks ago. It says, regarding 2731 North Darien Street, ZP 2023-01-1217.
Dear Honorable Chairperson, the blow is the summary of the public community meeting regarding
the above zoning proposal, the final position of the 12th and Cambrian Advisory Board RCO was to
oppose. The vote count was 10 to 5. The attendees felt it would be overcrowding the block with too
many cars and unnecessary populations. Mr. Chair, I have to object to that letter in that
there weren't 11 people at the meeting, so I don't know where the 10 came from.
Mr. Crossley, could you, if possible, could you send us a copy of that letter?
Of course. What's a good email?
Could we put it in the chat?
Absolutely, Chair.
It'll be in the chat for you, Mr. Crosley. Thank you very much.
Yes, sir.
Anyone else in the virtual audience?
I see no hands.
Planning Commission.
Thank you, Chair Bergman, and good morning, David Vecto.
With the City Planning Commission, Chairman and Board Members,
the comprehensive plan recommends a change in zoning of this location
from residential multifamily to residential single family.
The proposed dimensional variance is less than 10%
of what is required by the code for a second dwelling unit.
The variance is minor and does not conflict
with the purpose and spirit of the zoning code.
The City Planning Commission recommends
that the board grant the proposed dimensional variance
for lot area.
Thank you.
MI 2023-006-843-2731 North Daring Street, I vote yes.
Thomas Holloman, my vote is yes.
James Snell, my vote is yes.
Vern, we have this next case is yours, too.
MI 2023-006-844-1709 Christian Street.
Vern Anastasio is the attorney.
There's a letter of support from the South of South Neighborhood Association,
and there's a letter of opposition from the North of Washington Avenue Coalition.
Just for the record, could you...
Just for the record, yes, I'm sorry, Mr.
Yes, go ahead.
I'm sorry, Mr. Sher, I just want to interject quickly after.
I just want to interject quickly after this case, if we could go back to I have it again, Stevens Road.
OK, I thank you so much.
Sorry to interrupt, Mr.
It's OK. Just for the record, could you please state your name again?
Yeah, Vern Anastasio on behalf of Elise Carroll, who's the owner of 1709 Christian Street.
OK, Mr. Hallman has a few questions, sir.
Thank you.
good morning counsel good morning do you agree to waive the reading of the
refusal and stipulate to his accuracy i do did you email all the exhibits and documents as required
five days in advance to this hearing i have thank you please proceed and share your screen
thank you my sheet my screen is shared 1709 christian street was purchased by uh my client
Elise Carroll, and it's for the application. It's a legalization, another legalization of a
pre-existing, non-conforming, three-family, multi-family, three-family use. If you take a
look at the notes, it's been a three-family, it's been three units. First in 1960, it was a two-family
dwelling in a commercial space. But since 2006, that commercial space did turn to a
residential unit, and it's been a three-family ever since. So here's the interior photos
of the property in question. The Registered Community Organization, I know you have two
letters from two different rcos is sasna the south of south neighbors association and as you can see
this is the exterior and my client purchased this as a a functional three-family dwelling
with three electric meters and for better part of uh 20 years it's been um a three-family dwelling
prior to excuse me while i try and find my plans i don't know where they went
prior to uh that as i said it was a commercial space uh with
a two-family dwelling above but as you can see on the first floor that was converted years ago
let me take a let me walk you through the plan so you see there's ample space in the back by the way
for trash so in the basement we just have a sitting room and a bedroom and the first floor
unit is 832 square feet with living and a kitchen and a bath on the first floor
there's also mechanicals down in the basement the second unit is 540 square
feet again this is all pre-existing and the third unit is 449 square feet
another one-bedroom unit with a deck out the rear
we met with the neighboring community organization they did in fact give us a
letter of non-opposition material is not loading correctly for some reason but I
have this exhibit already sent to you and the exhibit packets that do
demonstrate that over 125 individual households were mailed the RCO meeting
was very well attended, and an overwhelming majority of those in question at the meeting
supported the variance merely because my client recently purchased it, and it was already
a three-family dwelling, and there's a long history of that use. And for all those reasons,
and for the just impossibility structural-wise, not to mention financially, for converting this
property back to a single family residence after all these decades i respectfully request the
granting of this variance and i asked miss elise carroll to raise her hand okay
good morning miss carroll
do we see her hand yes she she is unmuted okay hi could you please state your name
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court's sonographer?
and spell for the court stenographer.
It seems she may be having counsel,
you're also the court will take your testimony questions from appreciate that.
Questions from the board?
No, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from our attorney, Hilary Anderson?
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
We have Madeline. They have been allowed to speak.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Madeline Shacumba, M-A-D-E-L-I-N-E, Shacumba, S-Bagans, excuse me, Sam, A-M-K-O-M-B-A.
All right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Are you a neighbor?
i am representing the north of washington avenue coalition okay please proceed we are
in our area we have two coordinating rcos yep one in them okay and we are uh in opposition to this
because the fact is is that in 2006 they tried to make this a three-family dwelling
and it and they have an appeal and it was dismissed which meant that this should not have been a
three-family draw. Okay it should have been two-family drawing. I asked the gentleman,
I attended the meeting and I noticed that he was using the basement as living quarters.
I don't have he showed you his pictures and everything and if you go back to that area
where the basement was at, you would notice that there's no egress out of there except
for the window. Now, in order to reach the window in the basement, someone has to climb,
especially if it's a child, would have to climb on top of a step to reach it, to get
out of that basement. This is one of the reasons why I oppose that the basement could be used
as a thing. If you notice on your refusal, it said notes to the ZBA. It says it was dismissed
appeal for a three-family drawing. So it's been used illegally all those years as a three-family
drawing, which was not meant to be a three-family drawing. And we continue to say that we don't
mind it being a two-family drawing but we feel as though a three-family drawing is it was never
supposed to have been and it's been what you said i said okay okay also we noticed that uh
the property uh like i said does not provide an egress if that to me is a death trap you cannot
get out of there okay and uh um it does not provide the minimum space for that's required
for a three-family daughter also i'd like to know that let you know that we are i told you before
co-ordinating in our area we have two coordinating rcos and i'm one of them so i'm equal status
with sasna okay and they say they're sasta disagreed with you oh yeah we have a right
to it could be too cool okay no no i agree i i totally agree i just want to be clear
yeah we disagreed on it and uh uh as i'm saying pointing out to why you know and that uh we feel
that it should be made a two-family drawing we have no problem like that and the basement should
not be used as drawings because of its inadequate and i have having a proper egress out of there
And the window, if you look at his plans and everything, you'll see the window is small
and it doesn't even seem like it would accommodate a full grown adult trying to even get out
that window.
Now, you can look at his own plans that he submitted to you and that will definitely
show that that's what's happening there.
If he wants to use his two family drawing and skip the basement as a drawing, we ain't
got no problem with it.
We are asking that it not be approved as a three-family, but as a two.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Chair, if I may.
Let me just see if there's anyone else in the virtual audience.
Any other comments from the virtual audience?
Yes, we have a Stan Swinski with their hand raised.
They have been allowed to speak.
Sir, could you please state your name is spelled for the court stenographer?
Hello?
I'm sorry.
That was a mistake.
My hand should not have been raised.
Thank you very much, sir.
I appreciate that.
Plenty, council.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I do appreciate Ms. Chacumba's remarks and her testimony. And we heard it loud and clear at the meeting, and she was able to voice her concern in her vote. As you know, the vote was overwhelmingly in support of our appeal.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And I do appreciate Ms. Chacomba's.
we did address the building code requirement issue. We understand that the first floor
and the small living space as part of the basement will need, of course, to do a building
plan review. And we will have to meet the building code egress requirements prior to getting a
certificate of occupancy, which will precede us getting any rental license. So loud and clear,
We understand that there may be building code issues that need to be addressed, and we're willing to do that.
But we can't do that unless or until we have the zoning for what's already there.
And that conversion did not take place by my client.
My client purchased the property as the pre-existing three-family.
She now wants to make sure that it is safe.
And the way to do that is to legalize the use and then get up to code on the building
code requirements pursuant to securing the variance so that we can ultimately get the
rental license for the three family.