Good day, Councilman DiCicco and members of the committee. I am Otis Haigler, Jr., Legislative & Regulatory Affairs Manager for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. Accompanying me today is Gerald Richards, Jr., the chief of our Business Compliance Unit. Today I am here to provide testimony on Bill 020117, which, if enacted, will permit owners and tenants of properties in the 900, 1000, 1100, 1200, and 1300 blocks of Pine Street to sell merchandise on the sidewalk abutting their business. Although Bill 020117, as drafted, will cause no additional fiscal or personnel impact beyond our normal allocation, the Department is concerned that continued amendments to Bill 1205-AA to permit additional vending in Center City might dilute its intent to provide uniformity for vending in Center City and reduce congestion on the public way. Going forward, the Department of Licenses 71 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 020117 and Inspections would welcome an opportunity to work with City Council in assuring that future changes do not jeopardize the goals and focus of Bill 1205-AA and to ensure that the laws regulating vending in Center City promote uniformity. Mr. Richard, based on his experience with the enforcement of vending ordinances, can elaborate on this further following my testimony should there be any questions from the committee. The Department of Licenses and Inspections, as charged with the responsibility for enforcement of Sections 9-204 and 9-205 of the Philadelphia Code related to the licensing of vendors and inspection for compliance, will enforce the provisions of Bill 020117 should Council vote for its passage and the Mayor sign it into law. Thank you. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have at this time.
The last part of that, did you say you recommend it or you don't? I apologize.
That's okay. The Department of Licenses and Inspections, as charged with the responsibility for 72 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 020117 the enforcement of Section 9-204 and 9-205 of the Philadelphia Code related to the licensing of vendors and inspection for compliance, will enforce the provisions of Bill 020117 should Council vote for its passage and the Mayor sign it into law. Thank you. I will be happy to answer questions.
Yeah, I just didn't get the gist of what this bill is about. I didn't see the relationship between vendors and Pine Street.
You know, we're starting to agree again, which is scary, this is scary. What this bill would do is, it would allow the store owners, or operators of shops, on Pine Street from Broad to Tenth?
From the 900 block to the 1300 block of Broad on Pine to sell their 73 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 020117 products, vend their products, within 40 inches from the property line of their building out, which is similar to what we do in other commercial corridors. In South Philadelphia, East Passyunk Avenue comes to mind, and I'm sure there are a few others that are out there. It's for property owners, to allow them to sell their product, their materials, their merchandise within 40 inches of the property line of their building, not along the curbline, just from the property line coming forward. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's Antique Row.
That's what confused me. I was wondering about the connection of --
Well, let me explain. Currently, under the provisions of the Center City vending ordinance, there are 300 vending locations in Center City, and that's it. If anybody else were 74 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 020117 to vend or to sell on the sidewalk, they would need an ordinance to do that in Center City. Outside of Center City, as a general requirement of the code, any store merchant outside of Center City can sell their merchandise in front of their business outside of Center City, but in Center City itself, they would need a special ordinance to do that since there was an ordinance 10 passed by this Council, I believe, back in the early '90s that restricted sales on the sidewalk to 300 locations.
And this ordinance is required because of what? Because Pine Street is not considered --
Because Pine Street is considered a part of Center City, because the area on Pine Street is considered part of Center City.
Because there is a limited number of vendors that were allowed within Center City -- 75 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 020117
There's a limited number of people that are allowed to sell on the sidewalks in Center City, 300 total.
This will not adversely affect the number of vending spots already allocated by the City Council?
It will increase it slightly, but this increase will be limited to the owners of the stores.
And all of the other vending spots are vendors that bear no relationship to the ownership of the stores they may be in front of?
But to my knowledge, there are no other vendors -- there is no vending on these blocks now. And we did a six-month -- maybe even longer, is that right, Mr. Haigler? We did 76 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 020117 about several months of a trial period, if you will, to see how this works out. We put certain conditions on how they can display their merchandise -- no stacking of things, no hanging things from the wall, and that they could not go any further out than the 40 inches so as not to restrict the cartway for public access. And it was basically a bill that was brought to my attention at the request of the majority of the shop owners. Is that a fair assumption?
Okay, thank you. Any other questions for this witness? (No further questions.)
Anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill. - - - 77 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 020049
Insofar as the next bill that would relate to vending, Mr. Beller, aside from Mr. Beller and his clients, is there anyone else here that is here today to testify on that bill? And the number is --
Is there anyone else here to testify on Bill 020049 aside from the vendors? No? Anyone here from -- is it 801 Market, Strawbridge Building? (Individual raises hand.)
You're a vendor or an owner of the building? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: A vendor.
You're a vendor, all right. Mr. Beller, in cooperation with my colleague, Councilman Clarke, who has a similar issue, we will hold this bill. Thank you. Sorry to keep you waiting, but we discussed that, and that will give the other attorney the opportunity -- and, Mr. Beller, if you would remind Mr. Balka, I believe it is, and I'm not scolding you, but he wants an 78 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 020049 extra month. My colleague Councilman Cohen asked me about this. We'll give him the month, and one month means one month, not months, like 658-A. I'm 5 still waiting for a plan. 6 And, again, I'm not scolding you; just 7 please give him that message. 8
Thank you. 10 The clerk will please read the title of 11 the next bill. 12 - - - 13 14 15 16 17 79 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497
Bill 010497, an ordinance 3 amending Title 12 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Traffic Code," by amending the provisions relating to parking by physically handicapped persons and severely disabled veterans. (Witness comes forward.)
I think you might want to wait to hear their testimony. Thank you. You can sit on the side here. The following witnesses, would you please approach the witness table: Ed Lowery, Tom Finnerty, Al Thompson, and John Plenskofski. (Witnesses come forward.)
Thank you for your patience. So that you understand, I knew that there would be a number of witnesses, and I suspect we're going to engage in probably somewhat of a lengthy dialogue here, and I didn't want to keep the other department heads and other folks waiting around, and that's kind of the way we lay these things out. So thank you for your patience and understanding. And when you're ready, just please identify yourself for the record, and if you have 80 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 any written testimony, we'll accept it now; if not, you can begin to recite your testimony.
Good afternoon, Chairman DiCicco and members of the committee. My name is Edward J. Lowery, and I'm a member of the Philadelphia Veterans Advisory Commission; I serve as a commissioner. And I'm also the Executive Director of the Philadelphia Veterans Multiservice and Education Center. I would like to thank the committee for scheduling this hearing in an effort to gather information and hear testimony regarding disabled parking issues and concerns that affect the City of Philadelphia's disabled veterans. I would like to give special thanks to Councilman Mariano for introducing this bill and ask that the bill be approved with an amendment to include disabled veterans in the amendment. S. Department of Veterans Affairs, (indiscernible) Management Assistance Council, the 81 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 Philadelphia Vietnam Veterans Memorial Advisory Fund, to mention a few. On the various committees on which I serve, the primary goal and objective is to assist veterans with various problems, concerns, and needs, ultimately to improve their station in life and their community. It is with this objective in mind that I come before you today. Most attentive citizens would admit that disabled parking privileges have been abused. However, the majority of these abuses have been the result of individuals using parking placards. They are passed from car to car, person to person, and those authorizing these placards have disregard for the effects that they have on the City of Philadelphia and those that are affected by losing special privileges. What I would like to do is ask that Philadelphia legitimately look at the disabled that have lost privileges of parking as a result of this abuse. I would like to state that disabled veterans and severely disabled veterans possessing legitimate tags are not abusers in probably most of these cases. S. Department of Veterans Affairs. S. Department, you could then apply to the Commonwealth for a disabled-veteran tag. To the best of my knowledge, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania does not issue a disabled-veteran placard; there is no such thing. In 1986, I participated in the effort, along with many others, asking Councilwoman Spector at that time to introduce the bill that led to the parking access for disabled veterans. Several members of the committee were members of Council at that time when the original ordinance was passed. At that time, the tone of Council was not an effort to comply with the federal American With Disabilities Act or issues relating to reasonable accommodations. The intent of Council at that time was to introduce a bill to show the sensitivity to the needs and concerns of disabled and severely disabled veterans and other groups with the same needs not to meet the minimal requirements of the law. As I mentioned to you in our previous 83 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 correspondence, I feel that the committee threw out the baby with the bath water. There have been abuses; however, I think that you will find that our region's disabled and severely disabled veterans were not the abusers. In summary, I would like to say that the committee has made comment that the Eastern Paralyzed Veterans testified -- who gave testimony supporting this bill, Bill No. 00358 [sic] in particular, the bill that led to the loss of parking privileges. The fact is that at the time the Eastern Paralyzed Veterans testified on June 12, 2000, the actual bill had eliminated disabled and severely disabled veterans from parking, the bill 16 did not include disabled or severely disabled veterans, so they were testifying to a bill that did not include disabled and severely disabled veterans losing their privileges. That bill was amended on December 4, 2000, well after they testified. So I think it's important to mention that because I think, you know, for them to testify on behalf of a few to take away the benefits of many would not be in their best interest.
In closing, I would like to say that 84 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 tomorrow's veterans are fighting today's war on terrorism. Some will die, others will come home physically and mentally disabled, many will be much different than when they left. I would like to ask the committee to send a message that our city not only strives to meet the minimal requirements of the law in addressing reasonable accommodations for the handicapped and honestly appreciates the service our veterans have provided to our nation in peacetime and in time of need, and it takes care of those veterans when they return. I think it's important to mention that there are less than 50 severely disabled-veteran tags issued in the City of Philadelphia to its residents, and probably less than 300 disabled-veteran tags issued to the over 200,000 veterans that reside in the City of Philadelphia. So I doubt really whether or not those less than 350 tags are going to have a serious impact on the, you know, the income that the City experiences. And, you know, many have said, you know, that if we introduce -- reintroduce this bill to give those benefits back to disabled veterans, that other groups will follow. Well, my response to that 85 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 is that, you know, any of the groups that wish to follow, that feel that we're getting special benefits, you know, I think we do, I think we deserve them, and if they would like to do something to get the same benefits, they could join the military -- right now, we could use 'em. And in addition to that, I would like to say that, you know, it's always been our feeling that veterans are not honored by what they receive; they are honored by what they have able to give. So I would hope that this committee and the full Council Committee would take that into consideration. There's a serious problem in Philadelphia for many of the veterans that we service, and it's not just a question of putting the money in the meters. For many of them, it's a question of the fact that there's accessibility. Most of the people that we deal with particularly in our program are disabled, they're homeless. If they're fortunate enough to have a car, they can't afford to pay $15 to go into a lot. And many are in behavioral health counseling, and they can't break up a group or a counseling session to run out and put, you know, 86 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 four quarters in a meter. So I think that the tone of Council at the time the original bill was passed that gave us that benefit was really to give a little something special to our city's veterans. I'd be more than glad to answer any questions that you might have.
Thank you, Mr. Lowery. And let me go on the record as saying that I do appreciate what the veterans have done for me as an individual: Gave me the opportunity to be where I am today. Many of my family members are veterans. Fortunately, none of them were disabled, not physically disabled during the second World War or the Korean War. I had a number of friends who served in Vietnam and came back disabled. So I was a prime sponsor of the bill, as you know, and it was never my intention to disrespect anyone, be they veterans or non-veterans, who were disabled. But as you know, and I think you pointed it out in your testimony, the intent of the bill, I think, as is the case with many bills that go through either this City Council or other 87 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 municipalities, and even at the state and federal level, all good intentions sometimes become abused at some point. And we have a serious abuse in the City of Philadelphia. You did mention, I think, earlier in your testimony that maybe the City needs to look at the way in which these handicapped placards or plates are issued. Unfortunately, we don't have that authority; that comes from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. So basically, we are -- we have no 12 power as to who gets one. I mean, I can point to people in my neighborhood, and I always use the example of one guy's who's an iron worker, an active, employed iron worker who could pick me and you up on that desk and throw us across the room, but he has a handicapped plate because it was his mother's, whose name the car was in.
Now, she has since passed away, and we have removed the handicapped sign from in front of the residence, but for whatever reason, he still continues to drive a big, black Cadillac with a handicapped plate, and what 88 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 that does, to me, is a greater insult to people who are severely disabled veterans and other folks because it really takes away a space, a valuable space, that those folks, I think, should have access to. And it's not easy to always find a total solution that will accommodate everyone's needs. Unfortunately, there are some folks who kind of get tied up into that package that you really don't want to be in that package, but you did mention some interesting numbers somewhere -- I think you said 50 folks in the Philadelphia County are --
In the Philadelphia County. There's actually 44 severely disabled-veteran tags issued to Philadelphia County residents, and although the records are not clear on disabled tags, it's been projected that there are probably in Philadelphia County, there's less than 300, and that, you know, even using that as a number, if you try to correlate or relate that number to the other counties, you know, Philadelphia, for example, probably has, you know, 100-and some-thousand war veterans in our county than in any other five counties that are surrounding. 89 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 So if you project that number out, you're looking at probably at any given time less than 500 disabled tags would be in the City, you know, give and take with a little flexibility.
Explain to me -- I could be wrong on this. Are there two different tags that are issued to veterans; one that says "disabled" and the other one that says "severely disabled"?
Are you asking for us to consider only those that say "severely disabled"?
No. What I am hoping for is that both disabled and severely disabled -- and I'll explain the difference.
If a veteran is 10 percent to 90 percent disabled, he could have, for example, both legs off and have a disabled-veteran tag because when a veteran, you know, receives a 90 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 disability, 0 to 90 percent, 100 percent or more, what basically happens is, they apply to the Commonwealth for a tag. And basically, based on what they ask for is what they get. Veterans -- and I could probably explain a little better. A lot of veterans, there's probably 60 to 70,000 disabled veterans that live in the Philadelphia surrounding area, but probably less than 500 actually have ever applied for a disabled- veteran tag. It's not like, you know, being in a fraternal group, although the group is a proud group. But -- so that the reason I ask that disabled be included is you could have a double amputee who is rated at 80 percent but has a regular disabled-veteran tag.
I know every case is different. A double amputee may or may not use a wheelchair.
Do you know that presently, under the bill that we passed last year, that if have a vehicle that has a lift, you can park free all day anywhere. Is that correct Mr. Dixon? 91 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 I don't want to be misquoted; I'm going by memory. And in addition what we did is, we created -- and I don't know if any other counties do this, but on every metered block, there is a dedicated spot strictly for handicapped vehicles to park in; anyone else who parks there is subject to being towed and a $300 fine. Granted, it is not all day free.
We're in compliance with the State regs that say you get an hour grace period, but at that dedicated spot. And I just want to make sure that you're clear on that. The bill in front of us today deals with severely disabled veterans.
That's why I wanted to make that clear because what I heard you testifying to were both, and the bill just speaks to just severely disabled, and I'll speak to the sponsor of the bill in a moment about that, but I just want to get a couple of more questions if I may. 92 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 Do you know if there are any other counties in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania that treat vehicles with severely disabled or disabled tags any different than we are treating them today?
Well, I think because of the nature of Philadelphia being a city of first class, you know, it's hard to relate what we do in Philadelphia to other smaller municipalities. I know that throughout different counties in Pennsylvania that disabled veterans park as we did, without -- I mean, specifically, I haven't done that research, but I could tell you that they do. Harrisburg, I believe, is, for example, one.
I mean, if there are counties in the Commonwealth that have set aside or regs or active legislation, I'd like to see that.
Because I think that 93 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 that would give us some sort of a foundation to work from.
I understand what you're saying, that Philadelphia unique because it's a city of the first class, which really means that we have a population of greater than a million.
But meters are, I think, in all the counties installed in commercial corridors. So that to differentiate between a first class and second class city, there really is no 14 differentiating, as far as I'm concerned, because meters are in areas where you'd want turnover for business purposes, all right?
And, again, I'm not being argumentative; I'm just trying to, I think, set the record straight that --
Well, I understand where you're coming from, and I'd like to say that at the time that the bill was passed, I think that your office and many of the Councilpeople received hundreds of calls from disabled veterans and 94 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 severely disabled veterans that were affected. And I'd just like to use maybe one or two examples that kind of addresses that issue that you just brought up. In many parts of the City, there are meters in front of residential properties -- Torresdale Avenue, Frankford Avenue, almost throughout the City. We had I don't know how many calls from veterans that live in those particular residential blocks that have meters in front of their home -- 100 percent, 70 percent disabled veterans that couldn't park in front of their own home any longer.
Well, not to cut you short, but if that's the case, I would appreciate you submitting those addresses to me, and I'll speak to Mr. Dixon, who is first shaking his head no about the residential 'cause I don't of that either, but if that is the case, we can straighten that out for you.
Then he just shook head yes. You could submit those to me or Mr. Dixon or Councilman Mariano, whoever you wish to do that, 95 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 but I would certainly be more than willing to speak to the District Councilperson, if it's not in my district, about that issue.
Sure. Mr. Dixon -- he did that beautiful article on the fraud and all those people that were abusing these meters and the parking. If he were to read the paper a little closer, I think he would find out there were articles prior to his little thing that particularly spelled out people who lived in residential neighborhoods on -- and I have the article, in fact, in my office that addresses that particular case. You know, and I don't know if any of these other gentlemen are going to address that article, but I think it was a shame. I think that that article really probably festered the veterans and some of the legitimate handicapped people in the City, because it was a disgrace.
Well, again, in my district, I can think of one place off the top of my head on the 1600 block of East Passyunk Avenue, where there's a gentleman who has a handicapped plate -- not disabled veteran, not severely 96 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 disabled, just a flat-out handicapped license plate in front of his store, which, I believe, he lives above.
And it's a metered block, and he has handicapped signs in front, so it is dedicated for a handicapped vehicle. So, again, if that is the case on Torresdale Avenue, that's a no-brainer; I'm sure that we can straighten that out. I think I have one more question on this, and then I'll ask if my colleagues have questions for you, or we'll take additional testimony. You testified that you understand that there are other groups that -- or maybe myself or someone else mentioned that in order for us to accommodate your needs, we would have to be concerned with the needs of other folks who are going to come in and say, "Well, what about us? We may not have veterans, but we are severely disabled."
And basically what it would do is tear up the bill that we -- the 97 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 legislation that we have now and say it's open for everybody. So we have to deal with that situation. If there is a way under the Uniformity Act constitutionally that we can figure out a way of accommodating what I consider to be a very minimal amount of vehicles, based on your numbers -- and I'm assuming they're accurate numbers -- I certainly would entertain that. Again, as the sponsor of the bill that is in question today, not the bill that's being offered, but the bill that we're dealing with today.
But for me, I just have that concern that other groups are going to come in and say, You can't distinguish between the two; you're either disabled or you're not whether you're a veteran or not. And don't misunderstand me, they're going to say it matters, but it doesn't matter. So I just want that understood. That's why I asked if there are other counties, if you know of other counties that are doing this, you know, we can hold the bill if that's the case and then talk about this. I don't have to run it, and we'll just see if we can get some 98 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 information as to other municipalities and what they're doing, if there are special considerations, is there a special placard. I don't know. I mean, that's, I think, the things that we need to find out.
As the sponsor of this bill, I think we're trying to get to one place, but there's a lot of technical questions we have to talk to you -- like, for instance, with Mr. Dixon, but the one I'm thinking of -- and those people that aren't -- don't know all the military slang, I mean, it's just common for you and John and Mr. Finnerty to know -- there's guys with Purple Heart Veterans on their tags, and is that an official tag of the state? Questions like that. But, Mr. Dixon, while we're talking about you, isn't there a way like we created a special district in certain areas in all our areas? Isn't there some kind of way that the veterans, people that have it on their DD 214s, which is a discharge paper, that on there, it should say, "You were 99 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 discharged with a disability," correct? Unless you got a prior, then you're (indiscernible), right? 4 Is that the right number? 5
What happens is, a lot of 6 the vets that are discharged are discharged from 7 maybe a medical facility, if they're disabled to a 8 degree, but the disability many times doesn't catch 9 up with them for a couple of years. 10
Okay. Well, let's 11 concentrate on the people that have disability. Is 12 there some kind of official United States government 13 document that we can take to the Parking Authority, 14 and the Parking Authority can say, Tom Finnerty is 15 disabled, and he's disabled to the point that this committee recognizes, and that gives you something we can put in the window, like a sticker or a placard? So that way, we're not worried about the scenarios that Councilman DiCicco's worried about. Is that something we could do, Mr. Dixon, do you think?
There are a number of issues that have been raised -- 100 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497
Oh, Richard Dixon. I'm the director of off-street parking for the Philadelphia Parking Authority. We have no procedure in place by which we could make a determination about someone's mobility impairment and make a decision about how disabled they may be.
My question is: If the government has a procedure in place and they take that procedure down to the Parking Authority where there's clerks -- they do it all the time for people that live in that 1st District, or whatever you call that --
A permit parking thing, and you got to give whatever it is, like a phone bill or something, or a gas bill -- yeah, there's a way to do that to register your car, so there's got to be a way we -- is there something we could look at?
I'm not aware of a mechanism to do that. If you're asking me to look into that, I can do that, but I'm not prepared to respond to 101 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 that at this point. I just don't know. The problem that we face is, we are bound to honor vehicles and give certain privileges based on determinations that are established by the State. The State has established a law that says, This is the criteria under which these plates or placards will be issued. The Veterans Administration's determination of disability, I'm not familiar with at all, so I really couldn't say how that applies.
But I think we can always change the State law if it gets to that somehow, but can we ask you what that is? 'Cause there's some confusion in my mind, at least, is -- you're the expert on that, I suppose. Like, what is the disabled, what's the physically disabled, what's the Purple Heart tag? I see all these things and --
-- disabled-veteran plates get no parking privileges. Severely disabled-veteran plates get one hour beyond the time limit, the same as a person with disability plates. 102 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 Purple Heart plates get no parking privileges. That's what the State law has set up. The law that Mr. Lowery referred to was, in 1982, a Council ordinance, which basically said, Anyone that had any of those plates got to park free all day in the City of Philadelphia. And we know what the result of that was. I assume you don't want me to offer testimony at this point; it's just --
Not yet. Mr. Lowery -- and then I'll get on to Tom and everybody else -- have you tried to address this at the Commonwealth level?
Again, I'm not going to fast-forward this hearing, but I have a feeling that that's probably where we want to go, because I believe -- and I'm not an expert on this stuff and I'm not a lawyer, but I have a feeling that if we allow this -- and I certainly agree that we have to make exceptions if we can -- that we're going to open the flood gates and go right back to where we were a year ago, with all of the abuse that's out there. 103 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 I mean, it's interesting, if you drive around today, to see the number of blue meters that are unoccupied in those neighborhoods where we installed them. There's been a remarkable healing process that has taken place in this town in the last year.
But, you know, this may not be the end of it. As I said, I don't want to -- if I was voting today, I'll be honest, I would be voting no on the bill, but I don't want to go that fast. I think maybe we need to continue this a little bit further and exhaust everything until we come up with, hopefully, something that is satisfactory, at least to the veterans, to the veterans. Yes, please identify yourself, Tom, for the record.
Thomas Finnerty, Director of the Veterans Advisory. Mr. Chairman, Councilman DiCicco, and chair members, I would like to just speak in favor of this bill. And I'd like to explain, being a combat-wounded veteran that had six bypasses, had my 104 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 neck cut the other -- a couple weeks ago. I do have a disabled plate. And the reason I don't -- really I keep the car home so I don't drive in.
Excuse me, Tom, is that a disabled-veteran's plate you're talking about?
The reason it's so important for the veterans to have the plates, when the veterans go to group therapy, they go there, like, at 10 o'clock, and sometime they don't get out till 1:30, 2 o'clock, and it really -- it's not the money issue; it's the idea of getting around because they're handicapped. There's a gentleman that's 100 percent sitting over in the audience, and he's crippled and he can hardly even get around. The disabled handicapped tag, I don't think the veterans were taking advantage of it because of the situation. I never seen them parked around City Hall. For them to come to the office at City Hall, the closest parking place is at Juniper and Arch, and it costs $20, and it's pretty hard. 105 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497
There's actually one a little bit closer, but that's -- I don't want to get into the semantics of that.
I understand what you're saying. I mean -- I'm sorry, do you have more testimony?
Yeah, I'd just like to finish out with the testimony. I'd just like to read a little something for you. For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor of a different (indiscernible) you will never know. Thank you.
Anyone else to testify? My name is Al Thompson, a Fishtown resident, a constituent of Mr. DiCicco's. With these tags, I don't know if the process was explained, but in order to become a severely-disabled veteran, one would have to go through the Veterans Administration process, which is, I would say, completely the opposite of the 106 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 process of which people who abuse this privilege in the past had to go through to get their tags. So we're talking about people who didn't just get a doctor to sign a piece of paper to get them a placard; we're talking about people who served our country. And I don't know how many people on the panel here are veterans themselves. I'm not, but I wouldn't want to be the person who denied 400 disabled veterans in our city the opportunity to enjoy a privilege that existed for almost years. 13
I think you would 14 get -- I think everyone up here would be in total 15 agreement with what you're saying. I think I could 16 speak for them. 17 The question again is: Can we, under the 18 Uniformity Act, do this for one group and eliminate 19 the other? And I know this was not about revenue, 20 although some people originally thought it was, but the fact of the matter is, when we enacted the new regulations where you can't park free all day at a meter if you have a handicapped tag, whether it's veterans or non-veterans, in the first month alone, parking revenues in the core of Center City 107 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 increased by $175,000. So over the course of the year, we're looking at probably $3 million or more in revenue. Now, again, what is revenue, what is money. It means something, it is doesn't mean something. But there's a ripple effect that occurred in this city since 1982 -- loss of business, loss of tax revenues in addition to the meter revenues, and the inconvenience for truly handicapped people. What was happening, if you don't already know, is that many people were using placards that belonged to a parent, a grandparent, or a family member. They would come into Center City, for example, put the placard on the rearview mirror, go about their business of working eight, ten hours a day, and tie up a valuable place to park. And if memory serves me correct, during peak hours in Center City, the result of that unofficial parking that was going on by people with these placards caused an additional 2,000 vehicles to be on the streets of the core of Center City at peak hours, causing congestion. So there's a lot more to it than just, 108 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 you know, do we want to make revenue in parking; that really wasn't the intent. It's for the business community, it's for a lot of other things, and really, we thought we had -- again maybe with the exception of the disabled veterans -- something that was unique by providing a parking place on every metered block in the City of Philadelphia that is strictly dedicated to handicapped-vehicle parking only and complying with the State regulations that give you the extra hour of grace period free.
Well, one thing I'd just like to say in response to that is, if the thought behind that was to free up these spaces for business leaders --
Well, for consumers, for consumers. I mean, you know, it's turnover parking. Meters are installed in commercial corridors everywhere you go, anywhere in this country you go, and in other countries I'm sure, for the purpose of turnover, to keep people from not staying there all day, to keep people from not being able to go and shop and pick up something and go get a bite to eat, because if you had people park there all day, business would be shut down, literally shut 109 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 down.
Well, if every one of the 400 or so disabled or severely disabled veterans converged downtown and took over every parking space --
And I'm not suggesting that that will happen. Again, I think it goes to the question of: Can we legally make the distinction between the disabled veteran plate and a non-veteran disabled plate? Can we legally do that? I don't know.
Well, if you're talking about some sort of equal protection suit, the State makes -- and the State and the City make --
But we are bound by certain regulations that are mandated on us by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, we as a city. So, again, I say, without trying to be delaying this whole issue, is that I think you need to go to the State because what you may also be doing, if we can get relief at the State level, 110 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 you're not only talking about Philadelphia, but this would apply to all of the counties throughout the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania in addition to Philadelphia County.
I mean, Philadelphia veterans, people who live and reside in Philadelphia who travel to counties throughout the Commonwealth are probably faced with the same problem, so if we can figure out a way in getting the Commonwealth to, you know, enact some legislation that provides for an accommodation, if you will, for vehicles with disabled-veteran plates, it would help them when they travel outside of Philadelphia as well. Do you agree? I mean, is that something that may make some sense here?
Well, I agree, but for 19 years, the City of Philadelphia allowed anybody with 20 a handicapped tag to park for free, so the precedent is there for a state, a city, a municipality to allow anyone to park -- anyone with a disabled plate to park there, so they could make the same --
But we allowed it for any vehicle, any vehicle, that had either a 111 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 placard or a plate, regardless of whether it was disabled. Now we're saying we just won't let those vehicles with disabled veterans plates. I'm saying to you, if we can do that, we would, but I don't think we're going to be able to do it as easily because the other groups are going to come in and say, "What about us?"
Well, what I think everybody here is doing is asking you to take a stand and do that.
Councilman Mariano. I'm sorry, Councilman Rizzo. I apologize.
Point of order. Before we go through the exercise of going to the State and getting interpretations, why don't we, Mr. Chairman, ask our Law Department to see if we won't get -- and I can see where the Chair's coming from. Why put something out there that's going to get challenged by the rest of the disabled community. Why don't we get an interpretation from our Law Department to see if we can have what we're trying to accomplish here. But when I'm recognized to speak, and if 112 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 the Chair would allow, I'll speak now on a point that I'd like to make.
I think that the entire process that the State manages is a disgrace. I'd like to give you a hypothetical here. I have a police officer tell me -- and I hope the Parking Authority's listening because I've already had the conversation with one of your executives over there. A police officer noticed a contractor. We have a handicapped spot right across the street, in front of the Municipal Services Building. Pull up a roofer or a -- I better not be specific. A contractor pull up, park in the handicapped spot, reach over from the glove compartment, and hang the blue placard from the windshield. The police officer went over and wanted to try to determine whether the blue placard was his grandmother's or uncle's. The numbers that are on the blue placard, you would think that law enforcement would have the ability to get on the radio or their data terminal and be able to call police radio and say, No. 110734, could you give me 113 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 the registered owner of that placard? to make sure that it belongs to the person, or the person that it belongs to is in that vehicle. Would you believe it, the Philadelphia Police Department -- at least at the level I dealt with -- have no way, no way, of determining, based on who the placard belongs to, and this is important for this record, 'cause I don't want to start pursuing this, has no way to determine whether that blue placard is lost, stolen, belongs to whoever. And I think that the entire process -- I'm starting to hear horror stories where a person applied for -- well, our Philadelphia Police Department should be pushing that so they can get that information. It's not State. We have a responsibility to --
We have the responsibility if something is not working well in 114 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 this first-class city, that we should be beating on Harrisburg's door and utilizing our state representatives and senators. The problem that we have right now is the fact that we have a system that stinks, we have a system that's abused, where the people that deserve it can't utilize it as well as -- because if it wasn't being abused, this would be a no-brainer, but the problem that we have is the fact that people get these placards for a temporary -- I heard a story. A person called me and told me the fact that they got a disabled -- because they had a knee job, knee surgery, the State sent them the application to renew it; it didn't even ask them if they needed it. And the person, just for the fun of it, or whatever the case, they renewed it, and they have it. So my point being is that we need this fixed, and we need the state representatives that represent Philadelphia, the state senators that represent Philadelphia to fix it. I don't understand if this is such a bad process that it isn't being fixed. Is there something I'm missing here? 115 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497
Councilman, Councilman, with all due respect, I don't think these witnesses are expert witnesses on that. I think that the testimony that was given and the comments that have been made, we all agree that the way that handicap placards and plates are issued is a grace in this Commonwealth, and I agree.
Well, then let's fix it so we can accommodate people who need it, because it's being so abused.
I think that they're interested, Mr. Chairman, in what I'm saying here. I'm not asking that they're expert witnesses.
I'm asking them to get with me or get with whoever your organization is to beat Harrisburg's door down to get the problem fixed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Councilman, Councilman, I heard you. All I'm saying is, we have said that, and maybe you weren't here.
I was here. 116 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497
I said I think that the answer to this is at the Commonwealth level, and that's where we need to go. I mean, I hear what you're saying, and it's been said several times today. Councilman Mariano.
Mr. Chairman, thank you on that. I think there's a little bit of frustration here, and let me make it perfectly clear, as the sponsor of this bill. Councilwoman Specter did that in '82, and that was a freestanding bill, right? Do you recall that?
I know you're much older than I am, and I know you remember that. Did anybody challenge it then? Did any other groups come around, do you remember?
Well, I think that people rallied around the bill because it was at the time when we were raising money to build the Vietnam Veteran Memorial.
And, you know, Philadelphia 117 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 probably per capita had the highest number of losses of any other major city in the country in Vietnam, and I think that's part of what I was trying to say, was that, you know, the issue of how do we get around giving veterans maybe a special privilege? We've been fighting that battle since World War I, you know.
And on that, Mr. Lowery, not to interrupt you, but I will, I mean, I'm going to vote for this, obviously, because I'm the sponsor of this, but especially the Vietnam veterans, and I'm looking at John, the Korean veteran, and there may be some World War II veterans here -- Councilman Cohen, for instance is a World War II and Councilman Longstreth is a World War II veteran. But here's what we got to think about: These men and women came back from something they really -- some really wanted to go to and some didn't, and they came back with a lot of problems. We can sit around all day and we can do this and get to the State, and hopefully out of this, we'll get something to the State, but they deserve something special. Right now is a time when 118 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 people are paying a whole lot of attention to veterans and firemen and policemen because of what happened in September. I mean, we've done a lot of things around here. For instance, we did something today that was pretty courageous on Councilman Cohen's part, talking to the President of the United States, asking him to be real careful with the nuclear weapons. Now, I'm sure George Bush is listening to what Councilman Cohen and I are saying in City Council, but that was a message, and I'm sure the Councilman doesn't expect the President of the United States to listen to him -- I'm sure he hopes he would. And we understand, and I think this is the kind of bill where we need to send a message. Regardless of what Mr. Dixon's going to say, regardless of his expertise on parking, regardless of the revenue, regardless of who can't park anywhere, people that take advantage of handicapped- parking situations are going to pay somewhere, somewhere along the line -- if not in this life, in the next life. I mean, I really believe that. I can look all through this audience and 119 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 I can see Tyrone back there, 173rd Airborne Vietnam, he went through a lot, he went through a whole lot, and I don't even know if he has a disabled tag, and it's not really important if he does, but if he took the time out of his work today to come down here to tell us that some of the people that he knows and some of his peers and some of his friends and some of the people that he suffered with through these 30-some-odd years needs something special, we should be able to do that as the Councilpeople. And if the State knocks it down and if other people come in after this and knock it down, so what? We've put out other things that have been knocked down, and we've done other things that some may think is frivolous, but this isn't frivolous; this is important. And if I said that word right, I'm sorry, Councilman Rizzo, but that's what I mean. I mean, I think that's where we're at with this kind of bill, so we're all going to do what's in our hearts, and that's all I have to say.
Chairman DiCicco and 120 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 members of City Council, I'm a World War II and a Korean veteran and served in the Army in World War II in August of '44 to September of '47 and reenlisted for the Korean War in August of '50, got shot two months and nine days later. I have 160 percent disability and partial paralysis in my arm and shoulder from a gunshot wounds. I have a leg injury, I have two kneecaps, I --
Sir, you have to slow down and we need your name for the record.
My father was a Philadelphia police officer who died in the line of duty August 8, 1927. I was born and raised in South Philadelphia. I'm a native Philadelphian. I moved out of Philadelphia. I'm the President of PFC (indiscernible) Chapter No. 38 Incorporated. We're in the process of building a Philadelphia Korean War memorial right across from the Vietnam Memorial. I think it's a slap in the face to all 121 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 veterans of World War II, Korea, and Vietnam when we have to go down and honor our war on certain days that we can't park down there. The Philadelphia Housing Authority don't want to hear nothing, they give you these citations and ticket.
I have to have my wife drive me because of my disabilities. I also have a bad heart, unlike Mr. Finnerty, and I have a lot of other medical problems, but I'm going on 76 years old. I'm down here to support Mr. Ed Lowery and Mr. Finnerty. And we're making a big improvement down there at the Philadelphia Korean War Memorial site and in conjunction with the Vietnam veterans. And we have certain days down there that we have to go down there to honor our war dead -- you can't park down there because the Philadelphia Housing Authority police are over there and they give you tickets for parking.
And we have members of our chapter that get a little perturbed at City 122 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 Council because of this ordinance. I remember when Joan Spector gave us that privilege. I never abused it. I come down to Philadelphia quite often, have to come down here. At times, I park at 107 Front and Spring Garden Street, and I have to walk up 42 steps to the el, to get the el coming down here if I have to go to the VA Hospital, members of City Council, things like that. It's pretty hard on all veterans of any war to find a place where you could park when it's a necessity to come into Philadelphia for a visit, and that's why I'm here for, to show support for Mr. Edward Lowery and Mr. Finnerty, and last but not least, Mr. Rick Mariano. I think that privilege ought to be given back to us in appreciation for what we did when we were needed. And like I said, members of our chapter are a hell of a lot older than me and a hell of a lot sicker, and you see these younger guys that are 55 years old. When we go, they're going to be our age and they're going to come back and ask City Council where they could park at? I think it's kind of ludicrous for anybody to deny us that privilege. 123 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 That's how I feel.
Thank you. Point well taken. Councilman Cohen wanted to remind me that compared to him, you are a young man.
I just had one question and one maybe suggestion. How do the veterans generally feel about it? Are you a group that represent the disabled veterans or the severely disabled? I'd like to get a picture of how the whole veteran community feels, because in my days of service, in my post-days, I found that veterans didn't like to be divided into groups. I would feel much more comfortable about a bill of this kind if I felt that it was being supported by the whole veterans community. Do they agree -- do the veterans generally agree that there ought to be a special treatment for the disabled veterans or the severely disabled veterans? I don't know; I haven't heard 124 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 any testimony on that. But at some later hearing, apparently, we're going to be having later on --
It would be helpful to me, because I know veterans get very annoyed. Some veterans apply for disability, some that are disabled don't apply for disability, some feel they're unfairly denied disability by the government. I'm not sure that veterans generally would agree that the United States government, in making its decisions, always makes them right or fair. I would like to avoid that; I would like to feel that what we're doing is something that the entire veteran community's in general agreement with. If you have any information on that, I'd appreciate it.
Councilman Cohen, the majority of the veterans -- VFW, American Legion, DAB, VVA, Catholic War Veterans, Purple Heart, Korean War veterans -- are all in favor of this 125 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 bill. We've talked to 'em, Mr. Lowery's been out there from the point of where it left. We've been getting calls downstairs on it. The veterans today honor those who are handicapped and those that are disabled. They have no animosity that this guy's got a disabled tag and that guy don't. That's just the way it is.
If I may, I am the past commander of the United Veterans Council of Philadelphia, which is an umbrella group that represents 35 different veteran groups in the City, and that at two previous meetings, I was asked to come up and present this issue. And they are upset by the previous bill; they're in favor of the new bill, with the amendment. And I really think that in general, if they would have had a place to park, they probably would have been here today. And not to scare you, Councilman, but one of the issues here is that World War II veterans are dying at a rate of 1500 a day. We -- the program we run is not a transportation program, but we have been transporting -- previously when some of these 126 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 vets did have handicapped or disabled-vet tags, their families would take 'em to appointments to the VA, and there's never enough parking out there. If they park on Woodland Avenue, we're called continuously that the Parking Authority is out there writing tickets that, you know, they leave on the cars. So, I mean, you know, the veterans are in favor of it, and not to belabor this, but I don't know if it's an answer or not, but two things come to mind, and we've been, as I started to say, fighting the issue of why veterans get preferences. Veterans get preferences in employment benefits. The whole idea of that is the fact that veterans went, they served, many came back disabled, many didn't come back at all. That benefit is passed on to their widows. So, you know, sometimes you have to take a stand and say, We want to do something for these people. And I think that's what Councilwoman Spector and the members of Council did back in 1982 or '86.
But then it exploded. 127 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497
I don't want to interrupt you, but I voted against Councilman DiCicco's bill that eliminated the parking.
But the jury's still out as to whether it's a good thing or a bad thing. All I'm dealing with at this point is the separation between veterans, and that's what concerns me. And I would feel better in considering the bill if I had clear evidence, you know, in writing, that all of the veterans groups are united and feel this is a sound way to go. That's the only point I'm suggesting. If we could have avoided the abuses that Councilman DiCicco brought to light, we all would have been happy, you know, with giving veterans these special privileges 'cause I think all of us, whether we're veterans or not, feel that veterans have earned some special treatment, whether they're veterans of World War II, Vietnam, or Korea, or any of the wars you have been engaged in, or the Gulf War or anything. But I don't want to see a situation in which certain veterans are pitted against other 128 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 veterans. That's my concern.
What it is, I moved out of Philadelphia because when I was working, my company moved out of the 107 Teamsters. I live in Bucks County now, but my roots is from Philadelphia. We have handicapped parking up there, and you try to park up there, any Tom, Dick, and Harry will park in that area, and you can't do nothing, and we're told by the Warminster police or the Doylestown police, That's private property. They don't enforce the law of handicapped parking. So other people abuse the benefit that we earn, and they do it here in Philadelphia.
I understand that in Philadelphia, as a result of our previous, the legislation is now law that on every metered block, there is one space that is dedicated strictly for a vehicle with a handicapped placard in place.
I come down and I ride around and I have to take my wife --
Well, it's the little blue meter that's lower, that was made to be 129 3/14/02 STREETS & SERVICES, BILL 010497 handicap-accessible, wheelchair-accessible. It has a blue head on it. And when we're finished installing them -- and Mr. Dixon will correct me if I'm wrong -- we'll have about 2,000 of them citywide. Let me ask you, sir, if I may. You live in Bucks County. Are there any special privileges in Bucks County as it relates to the --
Most of the meters up there are a nickel. I come down here to hold a ceremony to --
How long can you park at that meter? What's the maximum amount of time?
I could put a quarter in and stay there for a couple hours.