retail and service uses yes and proposed for this location and in this case uh was uh or is
an eating restaurant that you're understanding correct yes and as i mentioned uh if you would
confirm so an eating restaurant would be permitted as a matter right under the cmx zoning district
but because of the overlay it requires a special exception is that is that accurate correct
And what does a special exception relief mean, if you know, not legally, but what does it mean?
It means that there's several criteria that have to be met, primarily making sure that the project
does not create negative impacts on the neighborhood.
So no hardship that you understand?
No, hardship is not required.
And the zoning code sets for the certain criteria that must be met for the granting of the special exception?
And we must address them.
And then to paraphrase, then anybody protesting must then address them.
So that's why we're here.
Correct.
And again, you prepared a report.
Uh, and, um, what type of block and location is this property located on in terms of zoning
And what type of block and location does...
and mixed uses this particular part of chestnut? Um, it's, it's a high density, uh, mixed commercial
and residential corridor. Would you consider it a residential block or no? Okay. What would you
consider it? High density mixed use. Okay. Uh, is it sparsely or densely, uh, populated with
uses? What'd you say? It's very dense commercial corridor. So is it fair to say that if you have
a mixed, uh, use like this block, uh, that mixed commercial and residential uses, um,
I guess, have to live in harmony and not in opposition.
Is that fair to say?
And what do you think, would a resident living there expect that on one of the most commercial streets,
that there would be a lot of commercial uses, having high occupancy numbers?
Yes, correct.
Did you conduct a site visit, visit the site in the surrounding areas?
And have you viewed the William Penthouse building?
I have.
And if you look on the screen here, there's some photographs.
Where my little hand is, that's the William Penn house. Is that what you understand?
And where I have it here would be our property in 1910, Chestnut Street?
And the entrance, or at least one of the entrances on Chestnut Street is right here, the little court area, as I'm describing it.
may be different and does it front on other streets uh the william penthouse yes on four
other streets and do you understand if there are any other entrances to this building on those
streets yes there are and you you happen to know where the main loading and unloading areas are
I know the main loading area is on Ludlow Street.
And in your analysis, I don't want to get into it as part of the record, but in comparison to surrounding uses, what is the loading and unloading that's performed on Chestnut Street, if you know?
For the William Penthouse or for?
Any of the uses, if you know, the nearby uses.
usually on the on an alley or if it's present or uh one of the ranstead or
okay other smaller streets i'm just going to take you now through the um the litany of um
special exception so we get that on the record um criteria so in your professional opinion does
this proposed use of the board grants a special exception not cause detrimental impacts in the
neighborhood beyond which that is normally might be expected from this proposed use?
It does not.
Will it cause, in your opinion, congestion in the public streets or transportation systems?
She's not a traffic engineer. I don't think she's qualified to make that opinion.
Well, she can answer.
She's testifying about special exception criteria.
I guess it's congestion in public streets or transportation systems, and that's traffic
generated, stuff like that. I mean, I think you should be a traffic engineer to testify to those
things. Well, I'm sure she can comment on it, right? I mean, or are you going to reject it?
Why don't we do this? She has to read some conclusion on the special exception.
I agree with Mr. Mattione on that particular point, so why don't you just move on?
Okay. Overcrowding the land? No. Impairing an adequate supply of light and air to adjacent properties? No. Burdening water, sewer, school park, or other public facilities? No. Impairing or permanently injuring the use of adjacent conforming properties? No. Endangering the public health safety by fire or other means? No. Or is it inconsistent with the comprehensive plan of the city? No.
thank you i have no further questions for nancy mr manioni i have no questions i did get a text
message saying the council president clark wanted to to comment on this application i don't know
if he's on and i don't know what the board would want to do but i did get a text message from
somebody saying that he wanted to comment now i don't like to interrupt the case but
okay is there anybody is there anybody from his office on
yes chair and i'm on mute to him now okay and mr clark you can unmute yourself
hello mr clark good morning bill bergman
hello mr clark good morning bill bergman could you state your name for the record yeah
thank you uh daryl clark council president philadelphia fifth council president do you
swear for him to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth that's the only thing
i know how to do mr chairman absolutely okay thank you sir thank you sir yeah yeah and mr chair i
didn't want to interrupt the case uh but you know i have a number of other i got to redistricting
bill and i know that's not you all's challenge a couple of things i got to get done but
okay sure will you guys be uh reconvening in the morning and i just want to get because i do want
to weigh in on this particular issue not to jump the line so to speak okay you can you can jump
the line now okay and i hope it's okay with my friends from the way in penthouse um just just
briefly um and thank you mr chairman and board for allowing me uh this indulgence um this essentially
Actually, I'm going to acknowledge, first of all, all the work that's been done, particularly from Rick Gross and CCRA.
I want to announce that they've done a good job in being stewards of the community, as Rick said, one of the largest RCOs and the responses from the applicant.
But at the end of the day, to suggest that it is not the newest phase of gaming.
is just not accurate. I mean, this is clearly where a lot of gaming is going to go. I mean,
while people will not be exchanging chips and all the other things associated with the
traditional gaming, it is a new wave. You can't turn on the TV without a commercial about some
former or current star, a person of note, promoting this type of activity. So people
will be coming there to utilize their devices to play the bets. But saying all that, I do want to
talk about the impact, particularly around a couple of issues. And I know that a lot of this
has been discussed. And again, I want to acknowledge all the work that's been done by
all the parties. This issue with respect to traffic, I know that can be problematic.
We have a traffic problem in the city without bankroll. But the ability of the allied folks
to be able to monitor traffic in the street, I don't think that's within their jurisdiction.
This issue about capacity, I know that was some conversations back and forth.
The earlier conversation about the approval of a 350 foot capacity restaurant under a past iteration was supported.
But now this is somewhat more whatever the capacity ends up being could potentially be an issue.
just the general impact of a facility and it's a new type of facility in a neighborhood though
albeit mixed use it is a strong contingent of residents on the block um so i i guess i'm saying
that i really am concerned about the enforcement the compliance associated with whatever agreement
is made um i actually had the pleasure of being the council person when the first casino
was proposed at that time on Delaware Avenue Sugarhouse
and was right in the midst of it
because my district extended there.
And early on, it was a brutal one.
I mean, even had a guy challenging me
to come up to the table and beat me up
because he didn't want it in his community.
And I stood up, he saw how tall I was,
so he kind of backed down.
But the reality is that you should expect
a significant pushback when this is proposed in this particular neighborhood, albeit a different
type of environment. But ultimately, people worked it out with an agreement with a special
services district and individuals who had enforcement authority to actually monitor
activity. So I'm a little concerned about who actually had the authority to monitor the impact
on this site. So I would ask, and I did forward a letter referencing some of the things I'm saying,
but I just wanted to say it in a public way, that this conversation needs to be had in earnest.
Any compliance, any agreement that is reached, and people should acknowledge that this is going
to have impact on the residents, even the ones that support it. We're kidding ourselves,
and we don't think that it will. Will not. So I just for the record I want to put my two cents
on the record about what I think about this proposal. So again thank you for giving me
consideration to allow me to put my words in but I am concerned about the impact and I want to
And I want to whatever understanding is reached to ensure.
whatever understanding is reached to ensure and also the other thing that we did.
And also the other thing that we did, and I'll shut up after this, is that this operation be revisited if it is allowed to proceed, not suggesting that it will.
But we did that with the casino on a periodic basis to ensure that there was whatever compliance was put as a part of the agreement.
so um just saying that to say it is going to be an impact um some of it not positive
this should be full acknowledgement um so when you make your decision i've asked the board to
take all of those things into consideration and mr chairman again thank you very much for
Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you very much.
Ron, can you want to consider?
Sure, I can. Thank you.
Okay, Mr. Mationi, just to confirm, we had no questions for Mr. Solt?
I have no questions for Mr. Solt or Ms. Templeton. I believe she was done too, right?
Okay, great. All right, I have one more, Mr. Chairman, for today. Guy DiMartino.
Sir, if you're in attendance, can you please raise your hand?
Chair, he's available.
Please state your name and spell for the court reporter.
Yes, it's Guido DiMartino. Guido is G-U-I-D-O. DiMartino is D-I-M-A-R-T-I-N-O.
Right. Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Proceed.
Hi, Mr. DiMartino. Who employs you?
Traffic Planning and Design, Inc.
Okay. And what's your position there?
I'm a regional leader of transportation planning.
And what does that mean, if you could elaborate?
Yes, I'm responsible for preparing and reviewing various forms of traffic analysis, traffic impact studies, parking studies, conceptual roadway designs,
analyses of various configurations, the intersections and corridors, all aspects
of transportation planning. Just like Mr. Templeton, I believe he's been
qualified as a traffic engineering expert before this board in the past. Yes, but
thank you. I don't have any objection. And so you've heard our testimony in this
case and you reviewed documents relevant to allow you to formulate an opinion as to traffic issues
and congestions here in the media area is that correct yes that's correct and i guess you reviewed
miss miss templeton's report and i have are you familiar with this location in the area of
chestnut street i am yeah and um you're aware that one of the criteria for granting a special
exception as we were discussing a few minutes ago is that there will be no congestion in the public
streets or transportation systems to the neighborhood beyond that which normally might
be expected from the proposed use is that fair to say yes familiar and uh you prepared i guess a
um a letter report that i'm showing on the screen which was submitted that's
your um report that's correct that is my report dated january 14th
incorrectly dated. It should be January 14th, 2022. Right. I would hope so.
So about the congestion sentence that I just mentioned to you, what does that really mean,
which beyond what you could normally be expected from the proposed use, if you know?
Right. So my interpretation of that is certainly any use. Right now, the site's vacant.
So it's not generating any traffic. There's no visitors to and from the site on a regular basis.
So certainly any use or reuse of that site is going to have some sort of impact.
That's understandable. I mean, it's going to add traffic to the area.
But my interpretation of it is, will this proposed application, will it have anything in excess or beyond what would normally be expected of a use of this site?
and what was the conclusion you came to in your professional opinion about that
in this instance yeah so i i believe i mean it's proposed to be a restaurant with reservations
Yeah, so I believe, I mean, it's proposed to be a restaurant with reservations, as you heard in the prior testimony.
So the restaurant will operate just as any other restaurant will operate and is expected to operate just like any other restaurant and will not have caused any specific detrimental impact to the neighborhood beyond what would normally be expected.
And how about as to traffic, which is what we're talking about.
Yes, exactly. And that's from a traffic perspective. That's what I was referring to in terms of no detrimental impact beyond what would normally be expected.
Okay. That's all I have, Mr. Chairman, for Mr. DiMartino.
Mr. Nadeo, do you have any questions?
I have no questions for Mr. DiMartino.
Thank you.
All right.
So we're coming up to one o'clock, Ron. How many more witnesses do you have?
I have no further on direct. I may have no rebuttal, as I mentioned, but at this point, it's Mr. Mattione's.
All right. So, Mr. Mattione, as we approach tomorrow, how long do you think it'll take to put on your case?
I have four witnesses, Mr. Chairman. I don't know, 20 minutes each witness, 15 minutes.
It depends on whether Mr. Patterson does extensive cross-examination as well.
But I have a one-way witness and three experts, and, you know, 15 minutes each.
Somewhere that range.
So how are you making out with your witnesses to be available tomorrow?
Everybody said they're available if we can start, you know, relatively close to 930,
because some of them have things at like 1130 at noon.
So first, I think we'd finish quickly.
Tanya, did you hear that?
tanya where's the boss
sharon
yes i did suggest i did discuss with tanya the idea of moving it to tomorrow and she was in
agreement that's good okay so then what we'll do is we'll take this first tomorrow
if we could do it last the others have already been scheduled so we would think last as an
exception so so give me an idea of the time tanya it's it's up to you chair however we proceed with