COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE ON RULES3 - - -4 Room 400, City Hall5 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Thursday, May 7, 20096 1:15 p.m. 7 - - - 8 9 PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA10 COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR.11 COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY12 COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER13 COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO14 COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE 15 BILL 090294 - An ordinance amending Chapter16 14-400 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Commercial Entertainment District"...17 BILL 090295 - An ordinance to amend the18 Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of land19 located within an area bounded by 11th Street, Filbert Street, 8th Street and Market Street.20 - - -21 22 V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services23 Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 60024 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.267025 2 1
Good2 afternoon. This is a public hearing.3 We have a lot of competition.4 This is a public hearing of the5 Committee on Rules. I would ask6 Mr. McPherson to please read the title of7 Bill No. 090294 and 090295.8 MR. McPHERSON: Bill No.9 090294, an ordinance amending Chapter10 14-400 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled11 "Commercial Entertainment District," by12 amending Section 14-403 of The13 Philadelphia Code, entitled "Procedures14 for the Establishment of a Commercial15 Entertainment District."16 Bill No. 090295, an ordinance17 to amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by18 changing the zoning designations of19 certain areas of land located within an20 area bounded by 11th Street, Filbert21 Street, 8th Street and Market Street.22
Thank23 you.24 Our first witness will be from25 3 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 the Philadelphia City Planning2 Commission.3 (Witness approached witness4 table.)5
Good6 afternoon. Please identify yourself for7 the record and proceed with your8 testimony.9
Good10 afternoon, Council President Verna and11 members of City Council. I am Alan12 Greenberg, the Executive Director of the13 City Planning Commission. 21 With regard to Bill 090294, the22 critical change in the bill is to require23 that any Plan of Development or amended24 Plan of Development for any project in a25 4 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Commercial Entertainment District would2 be subject to final approval of the City3 Planning Commission, rather than a4 recommendation of the Planning Commission5 for final approval of City Council. This6 approach is consistent with other7 ordinances that have been approved by8 City Council; for example, in the case of9 the proposed Stamper Square at 2nd and10 Lombard Street and in the case of the11 proposed American Commerce Center at 18th12 and Arch Streets. 16 The Planning Commission17 supports this approach. For too long,18 Councilmembers and community groups have19 been asked to be urban planners, traffic20 engineers and architects. 2 The Plan of Development3 process, however, creates a process where4 input from all stakeholders can be heard5 and evaluated by planning professionals6 who are trained to consider the7 multi-faceted merits of projects. 17 Some people may argue that18 Council ought to maintain its approval19 rights over these and other major20 projects as a check on Planning21 Commission authority. While the merits22 to this line of reasoning can be argued,23 we would maintain that development in the24 City has become too complex. 15 With the anticipated startup of the16 Commission's Design Review Committee this17 year, that public process will be further18 enhanced. And as I've said publicly in19 the past, our interest is not in cutting20 Council out of decisions, but in engaging21 Council in our process, soliciting the22 point of view of members and working as23 closely as we can with Council to promote24 responsible development. 4 With regard to Bill 090295, the5 Commercial Entertainment District6 established by Council ordinance in7 November 2008 is proposed to be removed8 from the 1000 block of Market Street and9 relocated to the 800 block of Market10 Street. 18 Mindful that under state law19 the City cannot direct proposed casinos20 to particular sites and that the21 developer will need to receive approval22 from the state Gaming Control Board23 before relocating from the waterfront24 site, we are nevertheless supportive of25 8 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 this rezoning. Though we have not yet2 received any plans for the Strawbridge3 site, we are aware of certain advantages4 of this site over the previous one5 further west on Market Street. 15 Second, to the extent that16 people will arrive at the site in a17 personal car or bus, 8th Street is the18 direct link to highway access from any19 direction. 14 And, fifth, the proposal is15 consistent with our developing master16 plan for the Market East area. 23 The proposed site at the24 Strawbridge Building will require25 10 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 detailed analysis by both the developer2 and then ultimately by the Planning3 Commission. In addition, issues of4 public safety and gaming addiction remain5 to be addressed, as they would be at any6 proposed casino site in the City of7 Philadelphia. These issues should not8 deter Council from approving the9 remapping. 17
Thank18 you.19 Are there any questions from20 members of the Committee?21 (No response.)22
Any23 questions?24 (No response.)25 11 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
Our5 next witnesses will be Brian Ford and6 Nick Moles.7 (Witnesses approached witness8 table.)9
Good afternoon,12 President Verna, distinguished13 Councilmen. Thank you.14 Thank you for the opportunity15 to speak to you today regarding the16 proposed zoning at 801 Market Street. As17 you know, on August 23rd, Governor18 Rendell asked --19 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:20 Excuse me. I'm sorry. Do you have21 written testimony that you can share with22 us?23
Do25 12 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 you have written testimony that you would2 like to share with us?3
As I mentioned, on11 August 23rd in 2008, Governor Rendell,12 Mayor Nutter and others asked us to13 attend a meeting at which they requested14 that we consider moving from the15 riverfront site. Various representatives16 of the Commonwealth and City were17 present. We had mentioned at that time18 that it presented significant challenges,19 including the fact that the Gaming20 Control Board is the one that determines21 the site and location for the casinos in22 Philadelphia. 11 It was also made clear that12 part of our consideration of this was the13 ability to open quickly and also to open14 cost expeditiously. The Gallery was a15 very attractive alternative because it16 tied to a redevelopment opportunity in17 the City to create entertainment18 amenities in Center City. The building19 had already been constructed. 24 The first site we focused on25 14 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 was the west end of the Gallery. This2 was in the early fall of last year. We3 called that the Gallery II site. The4 site is leased from the City by5 Pennsylvania Real Estate Investment6 Trust. It had major tenants. The7 Redevelopment Authority had various8 agreements in the Gallery, and tenants9 had to be relocated. 12 In showing good faith, the13 City -- and we thank the City and Council14 a great deal -- proposed and passed15 legislation realigning the location of16 the CED zone to that area that Alan17 Greenberger described. 19 The Gallery site was not20 without its challenges. 9 When we looked at that site, we10 saw immediate advantages. The space was11 totally vacant. It eliminated a number12 of the parties in any lease negotiation,13 and in addition to that, it didn't14 involve relocation of any tenants. The15 space had already been demolished and was16 ready for construction in a very short17 order. 20 Recognizing the obvious21 advantages over the Gallery II site, we22 have been engaged in active lease23 negotiations with PREIT, and I'm going to24 let Mr. Coradino report on that. 11 We were pleased to tell the12 Gaming Board in early April that the13 original investors have agreed to fund14 this construction. 20 What we can report to you today21 and definitively reported to the Gaming22 Control Board on April 8th is that we've23 made a decision to seek their approval to24 relocate our site to the 801 Market25 17 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Street location. I also report that we2 have the necessary financial resources to3 commit to that site. 18 In a multiple-floor19 configuration, we would be able to have20 in the early phase 3,000 slot machines,21 several food and beverage outlets. 3 We'll have an entertainment lounge. We4 also noted that there are 7,400, 7,5005 parking places within a short walk. The6 rail access is extraordinary, second to7 none anywhere in the country. 12 We expect to engage on a13 full-time basis some 450 people in the14 early phase of this. The building is15 large enough that it will permit second16 phases and third phases. 22 And as you're aware, there is a pad there23 at the site that is sufficient to handle24 up to two hotel towers. 4 So in conclusion, I recognize5 that there's a lot of information and6 there's a lot of information that's yet7 to be done. 15
The16 Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,18 Madam President.19 What I'd like to do is, I will20 hold my questions until Mr. Coradino has21 given his testimony, because some of the22 questions will involve answers from23 either Mr. Ford and/or Mr. Coradino as it24 relates to the lease and where we are.25 20 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 So I'll hold off until then.2 Thank you.3
The5 Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.6 One moment, Mr. Ford.7
Madam8 President, I will do the same. I will9 wait until after we've heard from our10 other witness.11
Thank12 you.13 Mr. Ford, as I indicated, we do14 have some competition here with the15 noise. Did I hear you correctly when you16 said you have the necessary financing?17
And19 how many parking spaces did you say would20 be available?21
In the area there22 are 7,500 parking spaces, commercial23 parking spaces. As you know,24 Philadelphia is a city of people that25 21 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 walk, people that take cabs, and our2 early traffic consideration suggests that3 that's sufficient parking in the area.4 When we looked at who shops in the area5 and noted the extensive use of public6 transportation that already existed,7 we're confident that our traffic study8 will show that there's sufficient parking9 in the area.10
Thank11 you very much.12 I think we're going to wait for13 questioning after Mr. Coradino.14
Thank16 you.17 Mr. Joe Coradino, Pennsylvania18 Real Estate Investment Trust.19 (Witnesses approached witness20 table.)21
Good22 afternoon. Welcome. Please identify23 yourself for the record.24
Good afternoon,25 22 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Madam President and members of City2 Council. 7 In our previous testimony, we8 covered our company's core mission and9 provided a list of retail properties that10 we own and manage. Thank you for11 providing us with the opportunity to12 appear before you today as you consider13 the ordinance addressing the proposed14 local land use approvals for the15 relocation of the Foxwoods gaming16 facility to our property at 8th and17 Market Streets. 22 When our company last appeared23 before you, we testified in support of24 the ordinance that authorized the first25 23 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 step in a zoning change to transfer the2 licensed gaming activities of the3 Foxwoods group from the Delaware4 riverfront to a portion of our property5 connected to the Gallery Mall at 10th and6 Market Streets. 12 After exploring the feasibility13 of the 10th and Market Street location at14 the western end of the Gallery, it's15 become clear that the more ideal location16 for this gaming facility is the 80117 Market Street building. 19 The building at 8th and Market20 is a condominium, with PREIT owning the21 lower seven floors. Foxwoods has22 expressed interest in the lower floors of23 the PREIT condo. 6 The 801 Market building is7 currently vacant on the concourse, street8 and 2nd and 3rd floors. 15 I want to reiterate that16 PREIT's role in this project is17 restricted to that of a traditional18 landlord. We will not be an equity owner19 in the project, nor will we be20 participating in the licensed gaming21 activities or related activities22 conducted by the Foxwoods group at the23 site. 3 Our building at 8th and Market4 will continue to serve other tenants,5 including the Commonwealth of6 Pennsylvania's General Services7 Department. The tenant will occupy8 nearly 225,000 square feet of space on9 Floors 4, 5 and 6. 11 With respect to the status of12 our negotiations with Foxwoods, it is13 important to note that negotiations with14 Foxwoods are not complete. After months15 of negotiations, we have begun to make16 progress and have generally agreed on17 basic economic terms. We are now dealing18 with principals of the gaming partnership19 and have scheduled meetings over the next20 week to make progress in our21 negotiations. 25 27 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 In conclusion, we believe that2 the Foxwoods casino would serve as a3 catalyst for the redevelopment of the4 Gallery Mall, which would have a5 beneficial effect on the revitalization6 of Market East. 12
Thank13 you.14 The Chair recognizes Councilman15 DiCicco.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,17 Madam Chair, and good afternoon.18 Some of the questions I have, I19 already do have answers to, but I feel20 it's important that this Committee gets21 to know a little bit more about the22 details and we create a record for23 everyone's purposes.24 You did mention that you're not25 28 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 yet -- you have not yet -- let me get it2 right. That you're in negotiations and3 you're not yet -- are not complete. The4 negotiations are not yet complete, right?5
That is correct.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Can you7 give us a sense of where you are in those8 negotiations? Are you much closer to9 finalizing a deal or are you on the other10 side of that?11
Well, I would12 say that we made a great deal of progress13 in the past few days. The parties14 involved in the negotiations have15 changed. We're negotiating directly with16 principals, and we've agreed to17 fundamental terms, including rent,18 condition of premises, et cetera. So19 we're hopeful, I think as I said, that a20 transaction can be concluded, but one is21 not at this point. And I would22 characterize it, in terms of the status,23 as being in the early stages of a24 transaction.25 29 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Is it fair2 to say that there's some fundamental3 understanding of what the terms of the4 lease would be? Is that an accurate5 account?6
At this point,7 there's a fundamental understanding of8 the economic terms of the lease,9 specifically rent, condition of10 premises --11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The basic12 structure.13
-- lease term,14 et cetera.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think16 the rest of the questions I have would17 probably be for Mr. Ford, Madam Chair,18 because I think Mr. Coradino in his19 testimony pretty much answered a lot of20 the questions I would have had for both21 gentlemen.22
Would23 you like Mr. Ford to come up to the table24 now?25 30 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yes,2 unless someone has a question for3 Coradino.4
I may, but5 let's invite the gentleman to the table.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Joe, if7 you don't mind, just stay there and Brian8 will come up.9 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:10 Mr. Ford.11 (Witness approached witness12 table.)13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good14 afternoon, Mr. Ford. And, again, some of15 the questions I'm going to ask you, I16 have the answers to, because you, myself17 and Brian and others have been18 negotiating and discussing this for some19 time, but I need to establish a record,20 and in case my colleagues have any21 questions, I think it's the appropriate22 time obviously for those questions to be23 asked and heard.24 Have you applied to the Gaming25 31 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Board to move your license?2
Our license is set3 to go for renewal May 29th of this year.4 In conjunction with the petition for5 renewal, we will begin the process of6 requesting that they start to review the7 relocation petition.8 The relocation petition is9 filed in parts. We file pieces as10 they're finished. So, for instance, at11 the time that we file for the extension,12 all of the aspects of this that are13 complete at that time will be filed with14 that request for extension.15 We would not expect the Gaming16 Board to rule on a relocation petition17 until all aspects of the relocation18 petition are finalized, including19 completing the Plan of Development20 process and zoning processes here in the21 host city.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.23 You've answered several of my questions24 with that explanation, and that's good.25 32 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Could you provide, without2 divulging any confidentiality issues, an3 outline structure of the financing.4
Councilman, we've5 filed with the Gaming Control Board our6 financing plan. It continues to be7 refined, but essentially what we asked8 the original investors to do was to make9 additional funds available in order to be10 able to proceed with this relocation.11 As you'll recall, the12 partnership between Foxwoods and13 Washington partners was a partnership14 where each party made contributions. The15 Washington partnership was composed of16 some people that were commercial and some17 people who had funded the Washington18 partnership and immediately transferred19 their shares to charity. Those shares to20 charity originally represented21 approximately 42 percent of the entire22 venture.23 So looking for additional funds24 when you have a tax situation that is the25 33 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 highest in the nation with our casino tax2 here and then, in addition to that, such3 an extraordinary -- as some of you know,4 I was responsible for the gaming practice5 at Ernst and Young globally. Nowhere in6 the history of gaming has anyone ever7 committed 42 percent of the profit8 distributions to go to charity. So the9 financing of an enterprise that has a10 charitable component that is that large11 and an enterprise that has a tax burden12 that is that large is significant. And13 what we did is, we went back to the14 original Washington partners and said, We15 really need you to step up in two ways.16 One, to make the financial commitments --17 and those financial commitments have been18 filed with the Gaming Control Board --19 and in addition to that, we said that we20 felt that it was important to maintain21 the charitable commitment. So what we22 reported to the Board and filed in camera23 was a financing plan that is complete24 that says the new investors are going to25 34 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 honor all of the commitments of the past2 relative to charity.3 The way I likened it is, I said4 it's as if you bought a business that you5 might value at $100,000, and then after6 you've made the valuation, you learned7 that that business had a charitable8 commitment of 42 percent of its profit9 distributions. Would you still fund the10 hundred thousand dollars that that11 business might be worth otherwise.12 So it started to become clear13 to us that the best source to finance the14 completion of this project were the15 original investors, and we're in the16 process of finalizing that. There are17 20-some investors, some larger than18 others, and that process is ongoing.19 But, again, in privacy, several of the20 investors committed to the entire amount21 that was necessary in the event that some22 of the smaller investors couldn't fulfill23 their individual opportunity for24 reinvestment. There'll be more to come25 35 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 on that all the time, Councilman.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.3
Thank you.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I have5 other questions. Did someone have a6 question relating to that response? No?7 Okay.8 I'll get back to the facility9 now and some of the technical issues that10 we have to deal with, traffic being one.11 What kind of impact do you feel that12 traffic will have on this facility and13 have you hired a traffic engineer?14
I was just speaking15 with Alan Greenberger on that exact16 issue, and he and we are going to review17 together the scope of the traffic study18 that we have ready to go with one of the19 noted traffic engineers in the City.20 What we found the last time21 around was that not having a scope that22 was consistent with the scope that the23 City was looking for created24 opportunities for misunderstanding. So25 36 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 this time what we're doing is the traffic2 study in concept. Things can change, but3 in concept, we'd like to have Alan's4 input to make sure that we're studying it5 sufficiently.6 But our preliminary conclusions7 from a number of executives that have8 gone through the project that are casino9 executives from elsewhere, that are10 friends, that are experienced in this11 arena of casinos, and what our sense is,12 that the unparalleled transportation hub13 that this area enjoys, an underutilized14 transportation hub in the sense that most15 of the traffic in the area that takes16 place now in the commuter rail and in the17 commuter buses tends to be during what we18 would call the business timeframe. So19 what we've learned in preliminary looks20 is are that the garages are much quieter21 at night, unless the Convention Center22 happens to have a big event. And in23 addition to that, the train service and24 the bus service, given the fact that25 37 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 there'll be commercial customers to use2 it, can be expanded.3 So we're cautiously confident4 that the traffic situation will be very5 manageable.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Do you7 have any idea when that may be completed?8
I would think in the9 next four to five weeks, Councilman.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.11 Have you developed any12 renderings of the facility and have you13 determined any floor plan?14
No. At this point,15 the process is sequential in the sense16 that we have two buildings that are17 approximately 100 years old. Those18 buildings had other uses. They did not19 have necessarily the weight issues that20 some of our equipment would have. 23 So the early part of our work has been24 related to issues of egress and fire25 38 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 safety and other things that have to be2 considered, electrical capacity, et3 cetera. 8 One of the things that many9 casinos did wrong and those of you that10 remember the early days of Atlantic City,11 what happened in Atlantic City was, the12 early casinos opened and then they13 quickly realized that their original14 concept and traffic pattern had been15 different than they anticipated. They16 used a model that was consistent with Las17 Vegas, which was a destination where18 people came for two or three days. In19 Atlantic City, the average visit is about20 four to six hours. So the configuration21 had to be different. 3 For instance, we've learned4 that in Pennsylvania the visitation is a5 much shorter timeframe than we anticipate6 in many of the other jurisdictions around7 the country. 14 When we were involved with Atlantic City15 at the beginning, everyone wanted to16 reproduce Las Vegas of the East, and they17 put in immediately gourmet restaurants18 and small seating areas that created the19 intimacy that they were familiar with in20 the western part of gambling, which was21 the only other jurisdiction of any size22 at the time. Quickly, Atlantic City23 learned that the buffet was an important24 component to their visitation. The25 40 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 buffet was a place that people could go2 and have a meal and spend some time and3 have some comradery during this four- to4 six-hour visit. 10 You have very healthy, very strong,11 perhaps underutilized food service12 offerings in the area, not only in the13 Gallery but in the surrounding areas14 north to Chestnut and Walnut, south --15 excuse me; south to Chestnut and Walnut,16 north to Chinatown. There are so many17 wonderful places to eat and have other18 forms of entertainment. 23 We also anticipate that a great24 number of the visitations will come right25 41 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 from the commuter corridor. So until2 you've studied some of the traffic modals3 that are associated with that, you're not4 sure exactly where you want your main5 entrances to be and your main points of6 access. So it's ongoing, and as it's7 available, we'd be pleased to share it8 with you. 10 I know in Mr. Coradino's11 testimony he talked about those of us who12 remember Strawbridges. I had the13 opportunity a couple of weeks ago to do a14 walk-through of the building as it15 currently exists. It's basically a16 vanilla box. There's nothing left in17 there. There's some things on the walls18 that will remind you of where the food19 court was. 18 So with that, I just wanted to19 ask a couple of technical questions. How20 many square feet are you expecting to use21 of the 2nd and 3rd floor? 24
Councilman, we're25 43 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 still working through cost estimates2 where we consider phasing. There's a3 great deal of interest by everyone in the4 state in moving as rapidly as we can.5 So we're still examining how to6 fit the allowed amount of slot machines7 in, which is 3,000, as early as possible.8 It may consist of opening one floor9 earlier than the other, and those10 judgments haven't been made.11 I would also point out that --12 and Mr. Coradino's testimony spoke to13 this -- we're working very cooperatively14 with the PREIT organization to look at15 the entire capability of the floors, from16 concourse through 3rd, to make sure that17 they're all consistent with the gaming18 and entertainment environment that we're19 mutually looking to achieve.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Have you21 hired an architect? Where are you in22 regards to the design process?23
Our team has a24 previously untapped capability to look to25 44 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 many existing relationships that our team2 has had, and we've had advice from three3 sets of architects, three recognized4 gaming companies, a number of individuals5 that have run and opened major6 enterprises, and what we've done is7 looked to those experts while we were in8 these early phases to get their best9 insight into different ways to think10 about this.11 You know, for instance, one12 such group said to us, We think one of13 the major possibilities is to come in14 right off the concourse in the small15 section, the 18,000 square foot section16 that exists in the oldest building of17 Strawbridges, but vertical transportation18 there and go up from there. Others have19 said when we work cooperatively with the20 City that the Market Street entrance21 should be the main entrance. Some of the22 people from the City want to look at how23 traffic flows before some of those24 judgments are made. Each set of25 45 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 architects and executives that we take2 through there give us valuable insight.3 We have, in addition to that,4 we've -- what we expect to do in the near5 future is name an overall construction6 leadership firm that will handle all7 aspects of construction, architect,8 engineering, et cetera, under one aegis.9 In the past, at the river site, each one10 of those were separate components11 reporting in. As you know, the various12 contractors that do construction are a13 fraternity of relationships, and we want14 someone at the top of that that has15 relationships with all the various16 subcontractors, the trade, et cetera, so17 that we can make this as efficient as18 possible.19 So our efforts relative to20 architectural and engineering have been21 ongoing, and we've had the benefit of22 utilizing existing relationships that23 exist to give us insight as we've24 continued to negotiate the lease with our25 46 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 friends at PREIT.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.3 I just want to go back again to4 the 2nd and 3rd floor square footage.5 Assuming you use all of the square6 footage on both floors, what's the square7 footage to that, approximately?8
If the final9 configuration were only the upper two10 floors, it would be approximately 140,00011 square feet on those two floors.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Together?13
Yeah.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And just15 to put it into perspective for my16 colleagues, when you take the Gallery17 from 11th Street all the way east to the18 Strawbridges facility -- and correct me19 if I'm wrong, Mr. Coradino -- you are20 looking at in excess of 1.5 million21 square feet of space? Is that about22 right?23
(Mr. Coradino24 nodding head in the affirmative.)25 47 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So the2 Foxwoods casino would basically be a3 tenant in this complex that has in excess4 of 1.5 million square feet of space,5 using somewhere around 140,00, 150,0006 square feet.7
Councilman, I think8 that's a great way of looking at it. The9 way we've come to say it to ourselves,10 we're going to use -- at the most, the11 available space is four floors in that12 building. That building was an entire13 department store from top to bottom at14 one time. When many of us were growing15 up in the Philadelphia area, we16 remember -- what was it, 14 floors --17 some 14 floors of retail that were in18 that space. So thank you for that19 clarification.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I have21 just one final question. Do you have a22 budget for the project?23
As you might expect,24 completing the lease is a big part of25 48 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 determining that budget, but what I will2 share with you budgetary-wise is that the3 budget ranges that we have are4 comfortable for our financing.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Again, I6 ask some of the questions I've known7 answers to for a while, but my8 colleagues --9
Happy to put it on10 the record.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- needed12 to do that and get it on the record.13 Thank you. Thank you for your14 answers.15
Thank you,16 Councilman.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: At the18 moment, Madam Chair, I have no further19 questions.20
And with21 Mr. Coradino, the landlord's, permission,22 we'd be happy to provide access to the23 space for the Council.24
Thank25 49 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 you.2 The Chair recognizes3 Councilwoman Brown.4
Thank you5 very much, Madam President.6 Good afternoon, gentlemen.7 While you are not here to seek funding8 from the City of Philadelphia, you are9 here seeking approval for local land use,10 and I would go so far as to say the11 majority of City Council cares deeply12 about inclusion and opportunities for13 women and people of color.14 First please speak to your15 track record with regards to inclusion16 for disadvantaged businesses.17
Well, thank you. As18 you know, we had an agreement with the19 City at the other site on all of the20 aspects of equal opportunity. We intend21 to fulfill that agreement, and as you are22 probably aware, the Foxwoods corporation23 is one of the leaders in recognition of24 minority enterprise as well as minority25 50 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 hiring and, similarly, with women and2 disadvantaged citizens, whether it be by3 handicap or otherwise. So we believe4 we're going to be a stellar member in the5 community in that regard.6
The agreement at the9 riverfront is in writing, and we intend10 to abide by that and transfer that11 agreement here.12
So you13 have, therefore -- so have you met with14 the Office of Equal Opportunity?15
Yes, but I will16 acknowledge that it's been some time ago,17 because we've been in abeyance for quite18 some time.19
So should20 we assume, then, that the formal21 agreement stands in its current form22 since you have not met with them23 recently?24
That is correct.25 51 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 That was my testimony, yes, ma'am.2
Could you3 please submit a copy of that agreement to4 the Chair of this Committee?5
You7 mentioned the number of steps, including8 zoning, traffic patterns, design, et9 cetera, and you say that 42 percent of10 the profit distribution will go to11 charity.12
Please15 discuss that. Speak to that. What does16 that mean?17
Councilwoman, thank18 you for the opportunity to clarify that19 and expand upon it.20 When the organization was21 formed back in '04 or '05, some members22 of the community said that it would be23 great to give something back to the24 community, particularly to the Delaware25 52 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Valley, Philadelphia, children's2 charities, et cetera, and what three of3 the individuals did was made a financial4 commitment to fund this enterprise. They5 immediately gave the stock in that6 company to charitable trusts, from which7 no money can ever be taken for any8 purpose other than charity.9
No. No. There are12 three trusts that are part of that,13 representing -- they were originally14 represented by the investors that made15 the three commitments financially.16
And that's18 unparalleled. I worked in the gaming19 industry for over 20 years with Ernst and20 Young. I ran the practice globally. I21 can't think of another gaming enterprise22 that ever gave part of their stock23 immediately to charity.24 Now, just to take that a step25 53 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 further, if -- no one is planning a sale2 of this, but just to show you how3 complete it was, if the enterprise were4 ever sold 20 years from now, the charity5 would get the proceeds from the sale and6 continue to use it for charitable7 purposes. It is a charitable commitment8 without possibility of revocation. It's9 as complete as anything I've seen in my10 non-casino practice at Ernst and Young as11 well.12
Okay.13 Back to the question of inclusion. What14 guideposts or individuals or15 organizations did you access as you16 developed your OEO plan? For example,17 Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller sits on18 the Mayor's Advisory Council on19 Construction Industry Diversity. Did you20 meet with any members of that committee,21 or who in the Administration did you sit22 with to ensure that the goals you have23 established are acceptable?24
Well, Councilwoman,25 54 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 I came on board in July of this year, and2 in July of this year --3
That's right. Yes,6 ma'am. And at that point in time, as7 you're all very aware, the situation at8 the river was stuck in a place that it9 was not going to go forward. We had10 reached various agreements, met with11 various leaders, all prior to that time.12 We have spent our entire energy on13 breaking that logjam, and now as we look14 to future operations, it's time to not15 only reiterate the commitment, which I've16 done here and in a number of other17 places, but now begin the process of18 those meetings.19 When you start those too early,20 you set expectations of employment21 immediately for people that really need22 employment today, not months in the23 future or when a process through a city24 and through a relocation process of the25 55 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 state is complete. So we don't want to2 commit in a fashion to individuals and3 have them count on a job, count on an4 opportunity that may be delayed by some5 of these processes.6
So once we have a8 timeframe secure, that's when we renew9 that process.10
Okay.11 Since we aren't able to have the benefit12 of this document, I'm going to ask a13 series of questions just to put on the14 record around this issue of inclusion.15 In your Equal Opportunity Plan,16 are there numbers that speak strictly to17 construction, the front end of this18 enterprise?19
Are there21 numbers that speak to the operations22 workforce?23
Are there25 56 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 numbers that speak to vendors and2 suppliers?3
Yes. I'm sorry. I8 couldn't hear. That fan is very9 imposing.10
I'm saying the fan13 is imposing. I just couldn't hear it.14 Yes, with vendors and suppliers. Yes,15 ma'am.16
You also17 mention in your testimony -- and I18 quote -- that there are a fraternity of19 relationships. And so does those20 fraternity of relationships include21 professionals of color and women in the22 areas of design and architecture,23 engineering, et cetera?24
Absolutely. And25 57 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 when I was referring to that, what we2 found -- and I think all of us have found3 that in the various lives that we live --4 we're going to build one casino. We're5 going to have relationships with6 contractors that are one event. We want7 to have leadership at the core of that8 that will have relationships with9 contractors and suppliers on many10 buildings over many years so that11 everyone gets the best price and the best12 service on that process.13
So that was one15 aspect of the fraternal aspect of it that16 I spoke of.17 The other aspect of it is that18 we've been able to use during this period19 of time the resources that are made20 available on a goodwill basis from people21 that have worked or designed in the22 industry for a long, long time, and in23 those cases, we've had extensive24 visitations from our colleagues at25 58 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Foxwoods, who built one of the largest2 casinos in the world, if not the largest3 casino in the world, as well as other4 executives that were involved with5 casinos throughout the country and6 throughout the globe, for that matter.7
As you8 prepare to submit the OEO plan, I would9 ask that you also attach to that a grid,10 a summary, a statement about your11 previous inclusion practices or12 commitments prior to coming to the City13 of Philadelphia.14
And then,21 lastly, for the world around this casino22 site, how can non-profits access this 4223 percent charitable distribution?24
You know, I guess25 59 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 the interesting thing to think about with2 that is that we have to be open and3 operating in order to have those profits.4
And it's again the6 same process of not setting needs that7 exist today on profits that won't be8 there until some future date. But as we9 open and as we operate, vehicles will be10 made available for that process.11
In other12 words, there will be a process by which13 the world around can know about it and14 then have an opportunity to apply?15
Did the17 state Gaming Board have expectations or18 requirements for inclusion of19 disadvantaged businesses?20
Yes. Absolutely.21 We have very similar commitments that22 we've made on the record with the Gaming23 Board.24
Thank you25 60 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 for your testimony.2
Forgive4 me, gentlemen. This is Mr. Joseph5 Coradino? I just have one question here6 in my margin. You mention in your7 testimony, the last page of your8 testimony, that you continue to have9 discussions with both the Planning10 Commission, who is represented here11 today, and others in the City12 Administration. Who are those others in13 the City Administration you're continuing14 to dialogue with as we go down this road?15
Well, Andy16 Altman has been engaged in discussions17 regarding this project, Peter Longstreth,18 who is here today, various members of the19 City Administration.20
Thank you,24 Madam Chair.25 61 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Mr. Chair.2
Forgive3 me, Mr. Chairman.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's all5 right. I get confused.6 Councilwoman Miller first and7 then Councilman Goode. Thank you.8
Hi. Good9 afternoon. Actually, I guess you can10 probably answer the question, but this11 question is for Mr. Coradino.12 Here in Philadelphia when we13 hear condos, we think residential. So14 when I was reading the next-to-the-last15 page of your testimony and it said the16 building at 8th and Market is a17 condominium, and I'm saying, Wow,18 condominium, okay. Second and 3rd floor,19 casino. Four, 5 and 6, state office20 buildings. It's a 14-story building.21 Where are the condos? And I'm thinking22 again residential, but I understand it's23 not really residential or it's not24 residential.25 62 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
That's correct.2 Condominium is just a term used for a3 type of ownership as opposed to a fee4 simple. It's a condominium ownership,5 because there is a shared ownership in6 the property. There are two condominium7 owners as opposed to a residential8 condominium. These are commercial --9 it's a commercial condominium.10
So what11 are the plans for the other floors? It's12 a 14-story high building, correct?13
Well, actually,14 yes -- actually, the other floors, the15 upper floors from 4 up are spoken for and16 will be office tenants. The floors17 concourse through the 3rd floor, we're in18 discussions with Foxwoods with. The19 final configuration and determination of20 their occupancy has not been finalized,21 but I would anticipate that given that22 all of those floors, concourse through 3,23 open up onto the Gallery, it's our24 expectation that whatever space that25 63 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Foxwoods did not take would be utilized2 for commercial purposes, either retail3 stores, restaurants or entertainment.4
I don't5 know whether your company would be6 involved -- and I guess you are as7 owner -- involved in who you'd actually8 be recruiting in terms of retail stores9 and the revitalization of the Gallery10 space. For example, I had a discussion11 with a new resident, who lives in Jersey12 but close to Center City, and he said he13 shops in Jersey or King of Prussia,14 because he can't believe that Center City15 Philadelphia only has one department16 store.17 So I would assume that those18 kind of -- that kind of information is19 hopefully what you're looking at when you20 talk about revitalizing the Gallery. I21 mean, people may want to come to the22 Gallery but just not -- there are a whole23 lot of people that won't be coming to go24 to the casino, but if this is an25 64 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 opportunity to expand the retail base2 there and attract different type of3 retailers, I think that's a plus.4
We anticipate5 that the Foxwoods casino would serve as6 an impetus for revitalizing the Gallery,7 which would include a re-merchandising8 plan where we would bring in the kinds of9 stores that your friend is going to New10 Jersey to shop at. I hope, by the way,11 they're going to Cherry Hill Mall or12 Moorestown Mall, because we own both of13 them.14
They15 probably are. Actually, it's a physician16 who relocated to Jersey from New York,17 and that's all they ever talk about, is18 the fact that they can't shop here in19 Center City.20
Well, we do want21 to change that. Humor aside for a22 moment, we do want to change that. We23 think there's an opportunity to execute a24 revitalization, a repositioning, a25 65 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 re-merchandising of the Gallery that2 would allow us to bring in the kinds of3 tenants that you typically find at4 suburban environments so that -- there's5 a number of constituencies that are not6 being served at the Gallery right now in7 terms of its customer base, and they8 might include the new residents to Center9 City, visitors to the Constitution10 Center, visitors to the new Convention11 Center or expanded Convention Center and12 commuters, and it's our intention to13 execute a business strategy at the14 Gallery and merchandising strategy that15 would begin to attract those customers to16 the Gallery and make it truly something17 that all of Philadelphia can be proud of18 and all of Philadelphia can shop at. And19 the Foxwoods casino is a small piece of20 it. I mean, we like to think about this21 redevelopment with the casino as similar22 to Caesars Palace at the Forum Shops in23 Las Vegas, where you have a very24 successful retail environment, utilizing25 66 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 a casino as one of the anchor tenants.2
It might3 be interesting if we knew that type of4 information. Where is Caesars? In Las5 Vegas, you said?6
Many of8 us have never been. I have no idea what9 types of retail stores are there.10
It would13 be good to know the potential. I mean,14 this is the possibility of what we could15 actually have.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Could I17 interject, because I happened to go to18 Caesars Palace years ago when we were19 looking at developing the Simon project20 at Penns Landing, and that was the21 specific example that we were looking to22 see, and that's the reason I went out23 there obviously.24 I guess the shops on what was25 67 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 formerly Million Dollar Pier in Atlantic2 City would be the type of -- and correct3 me if I'm wrong, Joe -- the type of4 retail experience that would be5 comparable to what the Forum Shops in6 Caesars Las Vegas. It's kind of similar?7
Are you8 referring to the Piers project?9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: To what?10
The project in11 Atlantic City currently called the Piers.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah. It13 used to be Million Dollar Pier.14
I would say that15 that is a little too high end, because if16 you looked at the Forum Shops as an17 example, while they have some of those18 stores, they also have what I would19 consider to be popular priced stores.20 And I think the Piers, by the way, is21 suffering a little bit from being a bit22 too high end.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And I24 agree. I think they have logistical25 68 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 issues as well. To get to the Piers from2 Pacific Avenue or Atlantic Avenue is3 about a five-mile walk.4
There's no5 anchor department store.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah.7 I didn't mean to interrupt.8
But10 anyway, I would hope that if we -- I11 suspect that this project would help12 revitalize the Gallery and probably other13 parts of Center City, but it would really14 be a real revitalization and not some15 mediocre --16
Absolutely. And17 I would be pleased to come back to City18 Council as we further develop our plans19 for the revitalization of the Gallery and20 share them with you, not just21 architecturally but also in terms of our22 merchandising goals.23
That will24 be great.25 69 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.2 And just for point of3 information, I've been working with Joe4 and PREIT for a year and a half to two5 years about their plan to look at redoing6 the Gallery. That's a work in progress.7 We just think that this casino could8 accelerate that and make that happen a9 lot sooner.10 I believe Councilman Goode is11 next and Councilman Clarke and then12 Councilman Greenlee.13
Thank you,14 Mr. Chairman.15 Good afternoon, Mr. Ford.16 Thank you for your testimony and for your17 responses to Councilwoman Brown, but I18 wanted to ask some more specific19 questions, like in your previous Economic20 Opportunity Plan, what were the goals21 that were set?22
I can't remember23 them off the top of my head, but I think24 we may have the plan with us.25 70 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 As you can see, our files are2 small, but it does happen to be one of3 the items that we have. We have goals4 during construction. We have goals5 during operations, and we have vendor6 goals that have all been documented as7 part of the EOP plan that was agreed to8 with the City. And in each of those, I9 think we exceed the targets that are10 traditional within the City.11
I'm not sure that I14 can represent them to you accurately from15 my notes, but we'd be happy to supply16 them.17
That's what18 I meant about not being specific and my19 asking more specific questions.20
That's what22 I meant about you not being specific and23 my asking more specific questions.24 Do you know what the goals were25 71 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 in your original Economic Opportunity2 Plan?3
You had to9 submit a diversity plan to the Gaming10 Board?11
We filed a diversity12 plan with the Gaming Board in conjunction13 with the river site, yes.14
Again, I don't have17 that plan with me, but that plan was18 reviewed in the context of the river19 site.20
With regard25 72 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 to the charitable trusts, can you tell me2 what are those charitable trusts? I3 think you said there were three. What4 are they?5
They're three trusts6 that were set up to help disadvantaged7 children and other charities --8
One of them is11 called the Silver Trust. One of them is12 called -- Silver Family Trust, Rubin13 Trapp Family Trust and Snyder Family14 Trust.15
So these are16 actually family trusts, and those trusts17 will deliver charitable funds to whoever18 they want?19
Well, they'll20 deliver charitable donations to21 charities --22
Well, when you say25 73 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 "family trusts," I don't want the2 connotation to be inappropriate. It's3 very similar to --4
I just asked5 you whether you knew the names, and you6 named three family trusts. Family trust7 was in those three names of the trusts.8
I'm sure you are,13 sir. When someone creates a trust, it's14 similar to putting their name on a15 building. It's just like I'm on the16 Board of Drexel, and when we get a big17 benefactor, that benefactor gets to put18 their name on the building.19 These benefactors got to put20 their names on the trust so that people21 would know who originally funded those22 trusts, and after they funded that trust,23 their obligation and their control is24 relinquished.25 74 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
And they2 have no obligation to provide any3 charitable donations within the City of4 Philadelphia?5
Excuse me.8 They have no obligation to make any9 charitable donations within the City of10 Philadelphia, do they?11
That is not correct.12 The trusts were funded with the13 obligation to make charitable14 contributions. The family --15
And that's19 within what documentation that you can20 provide?21
It's been filed with22 the Gaming Board, and I'd be happy to23 supply it to City Council. I believe it24 was previously supplied to City Council a25 75 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 year ago.2
And those3 trusts are not in existence yet in terms4 of making donations; they will not make5 donations until the project is up and6 running.7
The trusts are only8 going to be funded by the profits from9 this enterprise. So until there are10 profits in this enterprise, the trusts --11 the trusts are funded with the profits12 from this enterprise. Again, to repeat13 my earlier testimony, they were -- the14 enterprise was funded. Stock was15 purchased. That stock was immediately16 put in trust. Those trusts will receive17 the profits from this enterprise and then18 make charitable commitments in the19 Greater Delaware Valley area, including20 Philadelphia.21
There's no25 76 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 tax benefit to the establishment of the2 trust?3
When you say is8 there a tax benefit, you'd have to help9 me with that.10
Is there a11 tax benefit to the establishment of the12 trust and the diversion of 42 percent of13 the profits?14
The individuals that15 made their initial investment have16 relinquished all benefit from those17 trusts. So there's no ongoing tax18 benefit to anyone that was involved with19 those trusts, no, sir.20
Okay. Do we21 know who is going to administer the22 trusts?23
Do we know25 77 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 who is going to administer the trusts?2
There are trustees7 in place in each case that will8 administer those trusts, yes.9
Do I know? Yes.12 They have identified trustees in each13 case.14
How many19 trustees are there? Do you know them by20 name? Can you tell me geographically21 where they live? Can you tell me if they22 have any history in terms of making23 charitable donations within the City of24 Philadelphia?25 78 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
Can you be a4 little bit more specific? I was going to5 sit back and listen to the question and6 wait to receive the documentation you7 were going to send.8
Councilman, to be9 clear, I have not followed the lives of10 the individuals that funded these trusts,11 but they are well known -- their12 charitable nature is well known in13 Philadelphia.14
I'm just15 asking can you tell me anything specific,16 which it doesn't -- you can't tell me17 what was in your Economic Opportunity18 Plan. You can't tell me what was in the19 diversity plan that went to the state20 Gaming Board. You can't tell me what's21 going to be done with those three22 charitable trusts. So, I mean, while it23 sounds good that you're promoting24 economic opportunity and it sounds good25 79 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 that you're promoting charitable causes,2 you don't really have any specifics to3 tell me at this point. But if you can4 forward that through the Chair, that5 would be fine.6 Thank you.7
I will be happy to8 provide you with any data that you'd9 request.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.11 Councilman Clarke.12
Thank you,13 Mr. 14 Actually, Mr. Chairman, I have15 to go to a budget-related meeting with16 leadership, so I'm going to have to17 leave, but I just wanted to make a18 statement. Unfortunately,19 Mr. Greenberger is not here, because this20 is more directed at the Planning21 Commission and one of the bills that is22 before us with respect to changing the23 process. 25 80 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 I have some concerns about,2 one, starting out with the3 characterization -- and it was referenced4 as a part of, quote/unquote, setting a5 preference for changing the CED process6 and it referenced a particular project in7 my Council district, which was American8 Commerce Square. Although we have9 essentially rested the final arbitration10 on that particular project to the11 Planning Commission, it was not without12 substantial conversations and meetings13 with the community. 18 So I don't want to give the19 impression that I am supportive of a20 process in general. If it had not been21 some of those things associated with that22 particular project, particularly the23 leasing of a significant tenant, I24 probably would have required that that25 81 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 particular bill came back before Council2 for final approval. 5 The other thing with respect to6 the reference about the Planning7 Commission in allowing parties to have8 input in a public process -- and this is9 probably not the case, but some people10 can construe this to suggest that somehow11 the City Council process is not a public12 process. I think this is an extremely13 public process, given the fact that we14 are currently in one as we speak. So I15 take exception to that, although not16 knowing Mr. 18 With respect to this language19 about being able to support communities20 in the City that don't have volunteer21 expertise available within their22 residential base, I agree that there are23 substantial communities across the City24 that don't have the ability to do that,25 82 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 but I think that that should be that2 community's choice. We as a city should3 not decide we're going to be the final4 arbiter of that because the community5 doesn't have an opportunity. 19 And, again, I'm going to give20 Mr. 5 I am going to leave my vote,6 because, again, I have to go, and I7 understand the nature of the individual8 who is sponsoring these bills, Councilman9 DiCicco, who I consider a friend and a10 colleague and a person who works very11 hard in their councilmanic district and12 I'm sure that has done due diligence on13 this particular proposal. I'm prepared14 to leave my vote 090295 as yes, assuming15 that all of the things that have been16 asked from the various communities and17 from this body today and this particular18 Committee are met. And this particular19 vote, to some degree I have some20 concerns, but I want to make it clear21 that as an elected member of this body,22 as a Councilperson, who will shortly -- I23 know we have to go. Please tell them24 please don't leave me. 2 As an elected member of this3 body elected by the residents of the 5th4 District, I reserve the right if those5 people in that community want the final6 approval process to rest with the person7 that they have elected. 18 090294. 24 Thank you, Mr. 25 85 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,2 Councilman. 5
Thank6 you, Mr. Chairman.7 Very quickly. Mr. Ford, I8 apologize if you may have said this in9 your opening statement, and I've seen a10 quote in the paper, but I just want to11 again for the record. If everything goes12 as obviously you would like it, Council13 moves the bill, becomes law, the14 negotiations you have work out, ideally15 when do you see the gaming facility16 opening?17