COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE ON RULES3 - - -4 Room 400, City Hall5 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Thursday, May 7, 20096 1:15 p.m. 7 - - - 8 9 PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA10 COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR.11 COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY12 COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER13 COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO14 COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE 15 BILL 090294 - An ordinance amending Chapter16 14-400 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Commercial Entertainment District"...17 BILL 090295 - An ordinance to amend the18 Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of land19 located within an area bounded by 11th Street, Filbert Street, 8th Street and Market Street.20 - - -21 22 V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services23 Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 60024 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.267025 2 1
Good2 afternoon. This is a public hearing.3 We have a lot of competition.4 This is a public hearing of the5 Committee on Rules. I would ask6 Mr. McPherson to please read the title of7 Bill No. 090294 and 090295.8 MR. McPHERSON: Bill No.9 090294, an ordinance amending Chapter10 14-400 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled11 "Commercial Entertainment District," by12 amending Section 14-403 of The13 Philadelphia Code, entitled "Procedures14 for the Establishment of a Commercial15 Entertainment District."16 Bill No. 090295, an ordinance17 to amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by18 changing the zoning designations of19 certain areas of land located within an20 area bounded by 11th Street, Filbert21 Street, 8th Street and Market Street.22
Thank23 you.24 Our first witness will be from25 3 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 the Philadelphia City Planning2 Commission.3 (Witness approached witness4 table.)5
Good6 afternoon. Please identify yourself for7 the record and proceed with your8 testimony.9
Good10 afternoon, Council President Verna and11 members of City Council. I am Alan12 Greenberg, the Executive Director of the13 City Planning Commission. 21 With regard to Bill 090294, the22 critical change in the bill is to require23 that any Plan of Development or amended24 Plan of Development for any project in a25 4 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Commercial Entertainment District would2 be subject to final approval of the City3 Planning Commission, rather than a4 recommendation of the Planning Commission5 for final approval of City Council. This6 approach is consistent with other7 ordinances that have been approved by8 City Council; for example, in the case of9 the proposed Stamper Square at 2nd and10 Lombard Street and in the case of the11 proposed American Commerce Center at 18th12 and Arch Streets. 16 The Planning Commission17 supports this approach. For too long,18 Councilmembers and community groups have19 been asked to be urban planners, traffic20 engineers and architects. 2 The Plan of Development3 process, however, creates a process where4 input from all stakeholders can be heard5 and evaluated by planning professionals6 who are trained to consider the7 multi-faceted merits of projects. 17 Some people may argue that18 Council ought to maintain its approval19 rights over these and other major20 projects as a check on Planning21 Commission authority. While the merits22 to this line of reasoning can be argued,23 we would maintain that development in the24 City has become too complex. 15 With the anticipated startup of the16 Commission's Design Review Committee this17 year, that public process will be further18 enhanced. And as I've said publicly in19 the past, our interest is not in cutting20 Council out of decisions, but in engaging21 Council in our process, soliciting the22 point of view of members and working as23 closely as we can with Council to promote24 responsible development. 4 With regard to Bill 090295, the5 Commercial Entertainment District6 established by Council ordinance in7 November 2008 is proposed to be removed8 from the 1000 block of Market Street and9 relocated to the 800 block of Market10 Street. 18 Mindful that under state law19 the City cannot direct proposed casinos20 to particular sites and that the21 developer will need to receive approval22 from the state Gaming Control Board23 before relocating from the waterfront24 site, we are nevertheless supportive of25 8 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 this rezoning. Though we have not yet2 received any plans for the Strawbridge3 site, we are aware of certain advantages4 of this site over the previous one5 further west on Market Street. 15 Second, to the extent that16 people will arrive at the site in a17 personal car or bus, 8th Street is the18 direct link to highway access from any19 direction. 14 And, fifth, the proposal is15 consistent with our developing master16 plan for the Market East area. 23 The proposed site at the24 Strawbridge Building will require25 10 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 detailed analysis by both the developer2 and then ultimately by the Planning3 Commission. In addition, issues of4 public safety and gaming addiction remain5 to be addressed, as they would be at any6 proposed casino site in the City of7 Philadelphia. These issues should not8 deter Council from approving the9 remapping. 17
Thank18 you.19 Are there any questions from20 members of the Committee?21 (No response.)22
Any23 questions?24 (No response.)25 11 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
Our5 next witnesses will be Brian Ford and6 Nick Moles.7 (Witnesses approached witness8 table.)9
Good afternoon,12 President Verna, distinguished13 Councilmen. Thank you.14 Thank you for the opportunity15 to speak to you today regarding the16 proposed zoning at 801 Market Street. As17 you know, on August 23rd, Governor18 Rendell asked --19 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:20 Excuse me. I'm sorry. Do you have21 written testimony that you can share with22 us?23
Do25 12 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 you have written testimony that you would2 like to share with us?3
As I mentioned, on11 August 23rd in 2008, Governor Rendell,12 Mayor Nutter and others asked us to13 attend a meeting at which they requested14 that we consider moving from the15 riverfront site. Various representatives16 of the Commonwealth and City were17 present. We had mentioned at that time18 that it presented significant challenges,19 including the fact that the Gaming20 Control Board is the one that determines21 the site and location for the casinos in22 Philadelphia. 11 It was also made clear that12 part of our consideration of this was the13 ability to open quickly and also to open14 cost expeditiously. The Gallery was a15 very attractive alternative because it16 tied to a redevelopment opportunity in17 the City to create entertainment18 amenities in Center City. The building19 had already been constructed. 24 The first site we focused on25 14 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 was the west end of the Gallery. This2 was in the early fall of last year. We3 called that the Gallery II site. The4 site is leased from the City by5 Pennsylvania Real Estate Investment6 Trust. It had major tenants. The7 Redevelopment Authority had various8 agreements in the Gallery, and tenants9 had to be relocated. 12 In showing good faith, the13 City -- and we thank the City and Council14 a great deal -- proposed and passed15 legislation realigning the location of16 the CED zone to that area that Alan17 Greenberger described. 19 The Gallery site was not20 without its challenges. 9 When we looked at that site, we10 saw immediate advantages. The space was11 totally vacant. It eliminated a number12 of the parties in any lease negotiation,13 and in addition to that, it didn't14 involve relocation of any tenants. The15 space had already been demolished and was16 ready for construction in a very short17 order. 20 Recognizing the obvious21 advantages over the Gallery II site, we22 have been engaged in active lease23 negotiations with PREIT, and I'm going to24 let Mr. Coradino report on that. 11 We were pleased to tell the12 Gaming Board in early April that the13 original investors have agreed to fund14 this construction. 20 What we can report to you today21 and definitively reported to the Gaming22 Control Board on April 8th is that we've23 made a decision to seek their approval to24 relocate our site to the 801 Market25 17 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Street location. I also report that we2 have the necessary financial resources to3 commit to that site. 18 In a multiple-floor19 configuration, we would be able to have20 in the early phase 3,000 slot machines,21 several food and beverage outlets. 3 We'll have an entertainment lounge. We4 also noted that there are 7,400, 7,5005 parking places within a short walk. The6 rail access is extraordinary, second to7 none anywhere in the country. 12 We expect to engage on a13 full-time basis some 450 people in the14 early phase of this. The building is15 large enough that it will permit second16 phases and third phases. 22 And as you're aware, there is a pad there23 at the site that is sufficient to handle24 up to two hotel towers. 4 So in conclusion, I recognize5 that there's a lot of information and6 there's a lot of information that's yet7 to be done. 15
The16 Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,18 Madam President.19 What I'd like to do is, I will20 hold my questions until Mr. Coradino has21 given his testimony, because some of the22 questions will involve answers from23 either Mr. Ford and/or Mr. Coradino as it24 relates to the lease and where we are.25 20 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 So I'll hold off until then.2 Thank you.3
The5 Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.6 One moment, Mr. Ford.7
Madam8 President, I will do the same. I will9 wait until after we've heard from our10 other witness.11
Thank12 you.13 Mr. Ford, as I indicated, we do14 have some competition here with the15 noise. Did I hear you correctly when you16 said you have the necessary financing?17
And19 how many parking spaces did you say would20 be available?21
In the area there22 are 7,500 parking spaces, commercial23 parking spaces. As you know,24 Philadelphia is a city of people that25 21 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 walk, people that take cabs, and our2 early traffic consideration suggests that3 that's sufficient parking in the area.4 When we looked at who shops in the area5 and noted the extensive use of public6 transportation that already existed,7 we're confident that our traffic study8 will show that there's sufficient parking9 in the area.10
Thank11 you very much.12 I think we're going to wait for13 questioning after Mr. Coradino.14
Thank16 you.17 Mr. Joe Coradino, Pennsylvania18 Real Estate Investment Trust.19 (Witnesses approached witness20 table.)21
Good22 afternoon. Welcome. Please identify23 yourself for the record.24
Good afternoon,25 22 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Madam President and members of City2 Council. 7 In our previous testimony, we8 covered our company's core mission and9 provided a list of retail properties that10 we own and manage. Thank you for11 providing us with the opportunity to12 appear before you today as you consider13 the ordinance addressing the proposed14 local land use approvals for the15 relocation of the Foxwoods gaming16 facility to our property at 8th and17 Market Streets. 22 When our company last appeared23 before you, we testified in support of24 the ordinance that authorized the first25 23 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 step in a zoning change to transfer the2 licensed gaming activities of the3 Foxwoods group from the Delaware4 riverfront to a portion of our property5 connected to the Gallery Mall at 10th and6 Market Streets. 12 After exploring the feasibility13 of the 10th and Market Street location at14 the western end of the Gallery, it's15 become clear that the more ideal location16 for this gaming facility is the 80117 Market Street building. 19 The building at 8th and Market20 is a condominium, with PREIT owning the21 lower seven floors. Foxwoods has22 expressed interest in the lower floors of23 the PREIT condo. 6 The 801 Market building is7 currently vacant on the concourse, street8 and 2nd and 3rd floors. 15 I want to reiterate that16 PREIT's role in this project is17 restricted to that of a traditional18 landlord. We will not be an equity owner19 in the project, nor will we be20 participating in the licensed gaming21 activities or related activities22 conducted by the Foxwoods group at the23 site. 3 Our building at 8th and Market4 will continue to serve other tenants,5 including the Commonwealth of6 Pennsylvania's General Services7 Department. The tenant will occupy8 nearly 225,000 square feet of space on9 Floors 4, 5 and 6. 11 With respect to the status of12 our negotiations with Foxwoods, it is13 important to note that negotiations with14 Foxwoods are not complete. After months15 of negotiations, we have begun to make16 progress and have generally agreed on17 basic economic terms. We are now dealing18 with principals of the gaming partnership19 and have scheduled meetings over the next20 week to make progress in our21 negotiations. 25 27 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 In conclusion, we believe that2 the Foxwoods casino would serve as a3 catalyst for the redevelopment of the4 Gallery Mall, which would have a5 beneficial effect on the revitalization6 of Market East. 12
Thank13 you.14 The Chair recognizes Councilman15 DiCicco.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,17 Madam Chair, and good afternoon.18 Some of the questions I have, I19 already do have answers to, but I feel20 it's important that this Committee gets21 to know a little bit more about the22 details and we create a record for23 everyone's purposes.24 You did mention that you're not25 28 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 yet -- you have not yet -- let me get it2 right. That you're in negotiations and3 you're not yet -- are not complete. The4 negotiations are not yet complete, right?5
That is correct.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Can you7 give us a sense of where you are in those8 negotiations? Are you much closer to9 finalizing a deal or are you on the other10 side of that?11
Well, I would12 say that we made a great deal of progress13 in the past few days. The parties14 involved in the negotiations have15 changed. We're negotiating directly with16 principals, and we've agreed to17 fundamental terms, including rent,18 condition of premises, et cetera. So19 we're hopeful, I think as I said, that a20 transaction can be concluded, but one is21 not at this point. And I would22 characterize it, in terms of the status,23 as being in the early stages of a24 transaction.25 29 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Is it fair2 to say that there's some fundamental3 understanding of what the terms of the4 lease would be? Is that an accurate5 account?6
At this point,7 there's a fundamental understanding of8 the economic terms of the lease,9 specifically rent, condition of10 premises --11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The basic12 structure.13
-- lease term,14 et cetera.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think16 the rest of the questions I have would17 probably be for Mr. Ford, Madam Chair,18 because I think Mr. Coradino in his19 testimony pretty much answered a lot of20 the questions I would have had for both21 gentlemen.22
Would23 you like Mr. Ford to come up to the table24 now?25 30 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yes,2 unless someone has a question for3 Coradino.4
I may, but5 let's invite the gentleman to the table.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Joe, if7 you don't mind, just stay there and Brian8 will come up.9 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:10 Mr. Ford.11 (Witness approached witness12 table.)13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good14 afternoon, Mr. Ford. And, again, some of15 the questions I'm going to ask you, I16 have the answers to, because you, myself17 and Brian and others have been18 negotiating and discussing this for some19 time, but I need to establish a record,20 and in case my colleagues have any21 questions, I think it's the appropriate22 time obviously for those questions to be23 asked and heard.24 Have you applied to the Gaming25 31 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Board to move your license?2
Our license is set3 to go for renewal May 29th of this year.4 In conjunction with the petition for5 renewal, we will begin the process of6 requesting that they start to review the7 relocation petition.8 The relocation petition is9 filed in parts. We file pieces as10 they're finished. So, for instance, at11 the time that we file for the extension,12 all of the aspects of this that are13 complete at that time will be filed with14 that request for extension.15 We would not expect the Gaming16 Board to rule on a relocation petition17 until all aspects of the relocation18 petition are finalized, including19 completing the Plan of Development20 process and zoning processes here in the21 host city.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.23 You've answered several of my questions24 with that explanation, and that's good.25 32 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Could you provide, without2 divulging any confidentiality issues, an3 outline structure of the financing.4
Councilman, we've5 filed with the Gaming Control Board our6 financing plan. It continues to be7 refined, but essentially what we asked8 the original investors to do was to make9 additional funds available in order to be10 able to proceed with this relocation.11 As you'll recall, the12 partnership between Foxwoods and13 Washington partners was a partnership14 where each party made contributions. The15 Washington partnership was composed of16 some people that were commercial and some17 people who had funded the Washington18 partnership and immediately transferred19 their shares to charity. Those shares to20 charity originally represented21 approximately 42 percent of the entire22 venture.23 So looking for additional funds24 when you have a tax situation that is the25 33 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 highest in the nation with our casino tax2 here and then, in addition to that, such3 an extraordinary -- as some of you know,4 I was responsible for the gaming practice5 at Ernst and Young globally. Nowhere in6 the history of gaming has anyone ever7 committed 42 percent of the profit8 distributions to go to charity. So the9 financing of an enterprise that has a10 charitable component that is that large11 and an enterprise that has a tax burden12 that is that large is significant. And13 what we did is, we went back to the14 original Washington partners and said, We15 really need you to step up in two ways.16 One, to make the financial commitments --17 and those financial commitments have been18 filed with the Gaming Control Board --19 and in addition to that, we said that we20 felt that it was important to maintain21 the charitable commitment. So what we22 reported to the Board and filed in camera23 was a financing plan that is complete24 that says the new investors are going to25 34 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 honor all of the commitments of the past2 relative to charity.3 The way I likened it is, I said4 it's as if you bought a business that you5 might value at $100,000, and then after6 you've made the valuation, you learned7 that that business had a charitable8 commitment of 42 percent of its profit9 distributions. Would you still fund the10 hundred thousand dollars that that11 business might be worth otherwise.12 So it started to become clear13 to us that the best source to finance the14 completion of this project were the15 original investors, and we're in the16 process of finalizing that. There are17 20-some investors, some larger than18 others, and that process is ongoing.19 But, again, in privacy, several of the20 investors committed to the entire amount21 that was necessary in the event that some22 of the smaller investors couldn't fulfill23 their individual opportunity for24 reinvestment. There'll be more to come25 35 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 on that all the time, Councilman.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.3
Thank you.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I have5 other questions. Did someone have a6 question relating to that response? No?7 Okay.8 I'll get back to the facility9 now and some of the technical issues that10 we have to deal with, traffic being one.11 What kind of impact do you feel that12 traffic will have on this facility and13 have you hired a traffic engineer?14
I was just speaking15 with Alan Greenberger on that exact16 issue, and he and we are going to review17 together the scope of the traffic study18 that we have ready to go with one of the19 noted traffic engineers in the City.20 What we found the last time21 around was that not having a scope that22 was consistent with the scope that the23 City was looking for created24 opportunities for misunderstanding. So25 36 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 this time what we're doing is the traffic2 study in concept. Things can change, but3 in concept, we'd like to have Alan's4 input to make sure that we're studying it5 sufficiently.6 But our preliminary conclusions7 from a number of executives that have8 gone through the project that are casino9 executives from elsewhere, that are10 friends, that are experienced in this11 arena of casinos, and what our sense is,12 that the unparalleled transportation hub13 that this area enjoys, an underutilized14 transportation hub in the sense that most15 of the traffic in the area that takes16 place now in the commuter rail and in the17 commuter buses tends to be during what we18 would call the business timeframe. So19 what we've learned in preliminary looks20 is are that the garages are much quieter21 at night, unless the Convention Center22 happens to have a big event. And in23 addition to that, the train service and24 the bus service, given the fact that25 37 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 there'll be commercial customers to use2 it, can be expanded.3 So we're cautiously confident4 that the traffic situation will be very5 manageable.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Do you7 have any idea when that may be completed?8
I would think in the9 next four to five weeks, Councilman.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.11 Have you developed any12 renderings of the facility and have you13 determined any floor plan?14
No. At this point,15 the process is sequential in the sense16 that we have two buildings that are17 approximately 100 years old. Those18 buildings had other uses. They did not19 have necessarily the weight issues that20 some of our equipment would have. 23 So the early part of our work has been24 related to issues of egress and fire25 38 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 safety and other things that have to be2 considered, electrical capacity, et3 cetera. 8 One of the things that many9 casinos did wrong and those of you that10 remember the early days of Atlantic City,11 what happened in Atlantic City was, the12 early casinos opened and then they13 quickly realized that their original14 concept and traffic pattern had been15 different than they anticipated. They16 used a model that was consistent with Las17 Vegas, which was a destination where18 people came for two or three days. In19 Atlantic City, the average visit is about20 four to six hours. So the configuration21 had to be different. 3 For instance, we've learned4 that in Pennsylvania the visitation is a5 much shorter timeframe than we anticipate6 in many of the other jurisdictions around7 the country. 14 When we were involved with Atlantic City15 at the beginning, everyone wanted to16 reproduce Las Vegas of the East, and they17 put in immediately gourmet restaurants18 and small seating areas that created the19 intimacy that they were familiar with in20 the western part of gambling, which was21 the only other jurisdiction of any size22 at the time. Quickly, Atlantic City23 learned that the buffet was an important24 component to their visitation. The25 40 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 buffet was a place that people could go2 and have a meal and spend some time and3 have some comradery during this four- to4 six-hour visit. 10 You have very healthy, very strong,11 perhaps underutilized food service12 offerings in the area, not only in the13 Gallery but in the surrounding areas14 north to Chestnut and Walnut, south --15 excuse me; south to Chestnut and Walnut,16 north to Chinatown. There are so many17 wonderful places to eat and have other18 forms of entertainment. 23 We also anticipate that a great24 number of the visitations will come right25 41 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 from the commuter corridor. So until2 you've studied some of the traffic modals3 that are associated with that, you're not4 sure exactly where you want your main5 entrances to be and your main points of6 access. So it's ongoing, and as it's7 available, we'd be pleased to share it8 with you. 10 I know in Mr. Coradino's11 testimony he talked about those of us who12 remember Strawbridges. I had the13 opportunity a couple of weeks ago to do a14 walk-through of the building as it15 currently exists. It's basically a16 vanilla box. There's nothing left in17 there. There's some things on the walls18 that will remind you of where the food19 court was. 18 So with that, I just wanted to19 ask a couple of technical questions. How20 many square feet are you expecting to use21 of the 2nd and 3rd floor? 24
Councilman, we're25 43 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 still working through cost estimates2 where we consider phasing. There's a3 great deal of interest by everyone in the4 state in moving as rapidly as we can.5 So we're still examining how to6 fit the allowed amount of slot machines7 in, which is 3,000, as early as possible.8 It may consist of opening one floor9 earlier than the other, and those10 judgments haven't been made.11 I would also point out that --12 and Mr. Coradino's testimony spoke to13 this -- we're working very cooperatively14 with the PREIT organization to look at15 the entire capability of the floors, from16 concourse through 3rd, to make sure that17 they're all consistent with the gaming18 and entertainment environment that we're19 mutually looking to achieve.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Have you21 hired an architect? Where are you in22 regards to the design process?23
Our team has a24 previously untapped capability to look to25 44 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 many existing relationships that our team2 has had, and we've had advice from three3 sets of architects, three recognized4 gaming companies, a number of individuals5 that have run and opened major6 enterprises, and what we've done is7 looked to those experts while we were in8 these early phases to get their best9 insight into different ways to think10 about this.11 You know, for instance, one12 such group said to us, We think one of13 the major possibilities is to come in14 right off the concourse in the small15 section, the 18,000 square foot section16 that exists in the oldest building of17 Strawbridges, but vertical transportation18 there and go up from there. Others have19 said when we work cooperatively with the20 City that the Market Street entrance21 should be the main entrance. Some of the22 people from the City want to look at how23 traffic flows before some of those24 judgments are made. Each set of25 45 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 architects and executives that we take2 through there give us valuable insight.3 We have, in addition to that,4 we've -- what we expect to do in the near5 future is name an overall construction6 leadership firm that will handle all7 aspects of construction, architect,8 engineering, et cetera, under one aegis.9 In the past, at the river site, each one10 of those were separate components11 reporting in. As you know, the various12 contractors that do construction are a13 fraternity of relationships, and we want14 someone at the top of that that has15 relationships with all the various16 subcontractors, the trade, et cetera, so17 that we can make this as efficient as18 possible.19 So our efforts relative to20 architectural and engineering have been21 ongoing, and we've had the benefit of22 utilizing existing relationships that23 exist to give us insight as we've24 continued to negotiate the lease with our25 46 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 friends at PREIT.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.3 I just want to go back again to4 the 2nd and 3rd floor square footage.5 Assuming you use all of the square6 footage on both floors, what's the square7 footage to that, approximately?8
If the final9 configuration were only the upper two10 floors, it would be approximately 140,00011 square feet on those two floors.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Together?13
Yeah.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And just15 to put it into perspective for my16 colleagues, when you take the Gallery17 from 11th Street all the way east to the18 Strawbridges facility -- and correct me19 if I'm wrong, Mr. Coradino -- you are20 looking at in excess of 1.5 million21 square feet of space? Is that about22 right?23
(Mr. Coradino24 nodding head in the affirmative.)25 47 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So the2 Foxwoods casino would basically be a3 tenant in this complex that has in excess4 of 1.5 million square feet of space,5 using somewhere around 140,00, 150,0006 square feet.7
Councilman, I think8 that's a great way of looking at it. The9 way we've come to say it to ourselves,10 we're going to use -- at the most, the11 available space is four floors in that12 building. That building was an entire13 department store from top to bottom at14 one time. When many of us were growing15 up in the Philadelphia area, we16 remember -- what was it, 14 floors --17 some 14 floors of retail that were in18 that space. So thank you for that19 clarification.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I have21 just one final question. Do you have a22 budget for the project?23
As you might expect,24 completing the lease is a big part of25 48 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 determining that budget, but what I will2 share with you budgetary-wise is that the3 budget ranges that we have are4 comfortable for our financing.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Again, I6 ask some of the questions I've known7 answers to for a while, but my8 colleagues --9
Happy to put it on10 the record.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- needed12 to do that and get it on the record.13 Thank you. Thank you for your14 answers.15
Thank you,16 Councilman.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: At the18 moment, Madam Chair, I have no further19 questions.20
And with21 Mr. Coradino, the landlord's, permission,22 we'd be happy to provide access to the23 space for the Council.24
Thank25 49 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 you.2 The Chair recognizes3 Councilwoman Brown.4
Thank you5 very much, Madam President.6 Good afternoon, gentlemen.7 While you are not here to seek funding8 from the City of Philadelphia, you are9 here seeking approval for local land use,10 and I would go so far as to say the11 majority of City Council cares deeply12 about inclusion and opportunities for13 women and people of color.14 First please speak to your15 track record with regards to inclusion16 for disadvantaged businesses.17
Well, thank you. As18 you know, we had an agreement with the19 City at the other site on all of the20 aspects of equal opportunity. We intend21 to fulfill that agreement, and as you are22 probably aware, the Foxwoods corporation23 is one of the leaders in recognition of24 minority enterprise as well as minority25 50 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 hiring and, similarly, with women and2 disadvantaged citizens, whether it be by3 handicap or otherwise. So we believe4 we're going to be a stellar member in the5 community in that regard.6
The agreement at the9 riverfront is in writing, and we intend10 to abide by that and transfer that11 agreement here.12
So you13 have, therefore -- so have you met with14 the Office of Equal Opportunity?15
Yes, but I will16 acknowledge that it's been some time ago,17 because we've been in abeyance for quite18 some time.19
So should20 we assume, then, that the formal21 agreement stands in its current form22 since you have not met with them23 recently?24
That is correct.25 51 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 That was my testimony, yes, ma'am.2
Could you3 please submit a copy of that agreement to4 the Chair of this Committee?5
You7 mentioned the number of steps, including8 zoning, traffic patterns, design, et9 cetera, and you say that 42 percent of10 the profit distribution will go to11 charity.12
Please15 discuss that. Speak to that. What does16 that mean?17
Councilwoman, thank18 you for the opportunity to clarify that19 and expand upon it.20 When the organization was21 formed back in '04 or '05, some members22 of the community said that it would be23 great to give something back to the24 community, particularly to the Delaware25 52 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Valley, Philadelphia, children's2 charities, et cetera, and what three of3 the individuals did was made a financial4 commitment to fund this enterprise. They5 immediately gave the stock in that6 company to charitable trusts, from which7 no money can ever be taken for any8 purpose other than charity.9
No. No. There are12 three trusts that are part of that,13 representing -- they were originally14 represented by the investors that made15 the three commitments financially.16
And that's18 unparalleled. I worked in the gaming19 industry for over 20 years with Ernst and20 Young. I ran the practice globally. I21 can't think of another gaming enterprise22 that ever gave part of their stock23 immediately to charity.24 Now, just to take that a step25 53 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 further, if -- no one is planning a sale2 of this, but just to show you how3 complete it was, if the enterprise were4 ever sold 20 years from now, the charity5 would get the proceeds from the sale and6 continue to use it for charitable7 purposes. It is a charitable commitment8 without possibility of revocation. It's9 as complete as anything I've seen in my10 non-casino practice at Ernst and Young as11 well.12
Okay.13 Back to the question of inclusion. What14 guideposts or individuals or15 organizations did you access as you16 developed your OEO plan? For example,17 Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller sits on18 the Mayor's Advisory Council on19 Construction Industry Diversity. Did you20 meet with any members of that committee,21 or who in the Administration did you sit22 with to ensure that the goals you have23 established are acceptable?24
Well, Councilwoman,25 54 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 I came on board in July of this year, and2 in July of this year --3
That's right. Yes,6 ma'am. And at that point in time, as7 you're all very aware, the situation at8 the river was stuck in a place that it9 was not going to go forward. We had10 reached various agreements, met with11 various leaders, all prior to that time.12 We have spent our entire energy on13 breaking that logjam, and now as we look14 to future operations, it's time to not15 only reiterate the commitment, which I've16 done here and in a number of other17 places, but now begin the process of18 those meetings.19 When you start those too early,20 you set expectations of employment21 immediately for people that really need22 employment today, not months in the23 future or when a process through a city24 and through a relocation process of the25 55 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 state is complete. So we don't want to2 commit in a fashion to individuals and3 have them count on a job, count on an4 opportunity that may be delayed by some5 of these processes.6
So once we have a8 timeframe secure, that's when we renew9 that process.10
Okay.11 Since we aren't able to have the benefit12 of this document, I'm going to ask a13 series of questions just to put on the14 record around this issue of inclusion.15 In your Equal Opportunity Plan,16 are there numbers that speak strictly to17 construction, the front end of this18 enterprise?19
Are there21 numbers that speak to the operations22 workforce?23
Are there25 56 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 numbers that speak to vendors and2 suppliers?3
Yes. I'm sorry. I8 couldn't hear. That fan is very9 imposing.10
I'm saying the fan13 is imposing. I just couldn't hear it.14 Yes, with vendors and suppliers. Yes,15 ma'am.16
You also17 mention in your testimony -- and I18 quote -- that there are a fraternity of19 relationships. And so does those20 fraternity of relationships include21 professionals of color and women in the22 areas of design and architecture,23 engineering, et cetera?24
Absolutely. And25 57 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 when I was referring to that, what we2 found -- and I think all of us have found3 that in the various lives that we live --4 we're going to build one casino. We're5 going to have relationships with6 contractors that are one event. We want7 to have leadership at the core of that8 that will have relationships with9 contractors and suppliers on many10 buildings over many years so that11 everyone gets the best price and the best12 service on that process.13
So that was one15 aspect of the fraternal aspect of it that16 I spoke of.17 The other aspect of it is that18 we've been able to use during this period19 of time the resources that are made20 available on a goodwill basis from people21 that have worked or designed in the22 industry for a long, long time, and in23 those cases, we've had extensive24 visitations from our colleagues at25 58 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Foxwoods, who built one of the largest2 casinos in the world, if not the largest3 casino in the world, as well as other4 executives that were involved with5 casinos throughout the country and6 throughout the globe, for that matter.7
As you8 prepare to submit the OEO plan, I would9 ask that you also attach to that a grid,10 a summary, a statement about your11 previous inclusion practices or12 commitments prior to coming to the City13 of Philadelphia.14
And then,21 lastly, for the world around this casino22 site, how can non-profits access this 4223 percent charitable distribution?24
You know, I guess25 59 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 the interesting thing to think about with2 that is that we have to be open and3 operating in order to have those profits.4
And it's again the6 same process of not setting needs that7 exist today on profits that won't be8 there until some future date. But as we9 open and as we operate, vehicles will be10 made available for that process.11
In other12 words, there will be a process by which13 the world around can know about it and14 then have an opportunity to apply?15
Did the17 state Gaming Board have expectations or18 requirements for inclusion of19 disadvantaged businesses?20
Yes. Absolutely.21 We have very similar commitments that22 we've made on the record with the Gaming23 Board.24
Thank you25 60 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 for your testimony.2
Forgive4 me, gentlemen. This is Mr. Joseph5 Coradino? I just have one question here6 in my margin. You mention in your7 testimony, the last page of your8 testimony, that you continue to have9 discussions with both the Planning10 Commission, who is represented here11 today, and others in the City12 Administration. Who are those others in13 the City Administration you're continuing14 to dialogue with as we go down this road?15
Well, Andy16 Altman has been engaged in discussions17 regarding this project, Peter Longstreth,18 who is here today, various members of the19 City Administration.20
Thank you,24 Madam Chair.25 61 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Mr. Chair.2
Forgive3 me, Mr. Chairman.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's all5 right. I get confused.6 Councilwoman Miller first and7 then Councilman Goode. Thank you.8
Hi. Good9 afternoon. Actually, I guess you can10 probably answer the question, but this11 question is for Mr. Coradino.12 Here in Philadelphia when we13 hear condos, we think residential. So14 when I was reading the next-to-the-last15 page of your testimony and it said the16 building at 8th and Market is a17 condominium, and I'm saying, Wow,18 condominium, okay. Second and 3rd floor,19 casino. Four, 5 and 6, state office20 buildings. It's a 14-story building.21 Where are the condos? And I'm thinking22 again residential, but I understand it's23 not really residential or it's not24 residential.25 62 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
That's correct.2 Condominium is just a term used for a3 type of ownership as opposed to a fee4 simple. It's a condominium ownership,5 because there is a shared ownership in6 the property. There are two condominium7 owners as opposed to a residential8 condominium. These are commercial --9 it's a commercial condominium.10
So what11 are the plans for the other floors? It's12 a 14-story high building, correct?13
Well, actually,14 yes -- actually, the other floors, the15 upper floors from 4 up are spoken for and16 will be office tenants. The floors17 concourse through the 3rd floor, we're in18 discussions with Foxwoods with. The19 final configuration and determination of20 their occupancy has not been finalized,21 but I would anticipate that given that22 all of those floors, concourse through 3,23 open up onto the Gallery, it's our24 expectation that whatever space that25 63 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Foxwoods did not take would be utilized2 for commercial purposes, either retail3 stores, restaurants or entertainment.4
I don't5 know whether your company would be6 involved -- and I guess you are as7 owner -- involved in who you'd actually8 be recruiting in terms of retail stores9 and the revitalization of the Gallery10 space. For example, I had a discussion11 with a new resident, who lives in Jersey12 but close to Center City, and he said he13 shops in Jersey or King of Prussia,14 because he can't believe that Center City15 Philadelphia only has one department16 store.17 So I would assume that those18 kind of -- that kind of information is19 hopefully what you're looking at when you20 talk about revitalizing the Gallery. I21 mean, people may want to come to the22 Gallery but just not -- there are a whole23 lot of people that won't be coming to go24 to the casino, but if this is an25 64 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 opportunity to expand the retail base2 there and attract different type of3 retailers, I think that's a plus.4
We anticipate5 that the Foxwoods casino would serve as6 an impetus for revitalizing the Gallery,7 which would include a re-merchandising8 plan where we would bring in the kinds of9 stores that your friend is going to New10 Jersey to shop at. I hope, by the way,11 they're going to Cherry Hill Mall or12 Moorestown Mall, because we own both of13 them.14
They15 probably are. Actually, it's a physician16 who relocated to Jersey from New York,17 and that's all they ever talk about, is18 the fact that they can't shop here in19 Center City.20
Well, we do want21 to change that. Humor aside for a22 moment, we do want to change that. We23 think there's an opportunity to execute a24 revitalization, a repositioning, a25 65 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 re-merchandising of the Gallery that2 would allow us to bring in the kinds of3 tenants that you typically find at4 suburban environments so that -- there's5 a number of constituencies that are not6 being served at the Gallery right now in7 terms of its customer base, and they8 might include the new residents to Center9 City, visitors to the Constitution10 Center, visitors to the new Convention11 Center or expanded Convention Center and12 commuters, and it's our intention to13 execute a business strategy at the14 Gallery and merchandising strategy that15 would begin to attract those customers to16 the Gallery and make it truly something17 that all of Philadelphia can be proud of18 and all of Philadelphia can shop at. And19 the Foxwoods casino is a small piece of20 it. I mean, we like to think about this21 redevelopment with the casino as similar22 to Caesars Palace at the Forum Shops in23 Las Vegas, where you have a very24 successful retail environment, utilizing25 66 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 a casino as one of the anchor tenants.2
It might3 be interesting if we knew that type of4 information. Where is Caesars? In Las5 Vegas, you said?6
Many of8 us have never been. I have no idea what9 types of retail stores are there.10
It would13 be good to know the potential. I mean,14 this is the possibility of what we could15 actually have.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Could I17 interject, because I happened to go to18 Caesars Palace years ago when we were19 looking at developing the Simon project20 at Penns Landing, and that was the21 specific example that we were looking to22 see, and that's the reason I went out23 there obviously.24 I guess the shops on what was25 67 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 formerly Million Dollar Pier in Atlantic2 City would be the type of -- and correct3 me if I'm wrong, Joe -- the type of4 retail experience that would be5 comparable to what the Forum Shops in6 Caesars Las Vegas. It's kind of similar?7
Are you8 referring to the Piers project?9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: To what?10
The project in11 Atlantic City currently called the Piers.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah. It13 used to be Million Dollar Pier.14
I would say that15 that is a little too high end, because if16 you looked at the Forum Shops as an17 example, while they have some of those18 stores, they also have what I would19 consider to be popular priced stores.20 And I think the Piers, by the way, is21 suffering a little bit from being a bit22 too high end.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And I24 agree. I think they have logistical25 68 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 issues as well. To get to the Piers from2 Pacific Avenue or Atlantic Avenue is3 about a five-mile walk.4
There's no5 anchor department store.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah.7 I didn't mean to interrupt.8
But10 anyway, I would hope that if we -- I11 suspect that this project would help12 revitalize the Gallery and probably other13 parts of Center City, but it would really14 be a real revitalization and not some15 mediocre --16
Absolutely. And17 I would be pleased to come back to City18 Council as we further develop our plans19 for the revitalization of the Gallery and20 share them with you, not just21 architecturally but also in terms of our22 merchandising goals.23
That will24 be great.25 69 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.2 And just for point of3 information, I've been working with Joe4 and PREIT for a year and a half to two5 years about their plan to look at redoing6 the Gallery. That's a work in progress.7 We just think that this casino could8 accelerate that and make that happen a9 lot sooner.10 I believe Councilman Goode is11 next and Councilman Clarke and then12 Councilman Greenlee.13
Thank you,14 Mr. Chairman.15 Good afternoon, Mr. Ford.16 Thank you for your testimony and for your17 responses to Councilwoman Brown, but I18 wanted to ask some more specific19 questions, like in your previous Economic20 Opportunity Plan, what were the goals21 that were set?22
I can't remember23 them off the top of my head, but I think24 we may have the plan with us.25 70 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 As you can see, our files are2 small, but it does happen to be one of3 the items that we have. We have goals4 during construction. We have goals5 during operations, and we have vendor6 goals that have all been documented as7 part of the EOP plan that was agreed to8 with the City. And in each of those, I9 think we exceed the targets that are10 traditional within the City.11
I'm not sure that I14 can represent them to you accurately from15 my notes, but we'd be happy to supply16 them.17
That's what18 I meant about not being specific and my19 asking more specific questions.20
That's what22 I meant about you not being specific and23 my asking more specific questions.24 Do you know what the goals were25 71 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 in your original Economic Opportunity2 Plan?3
You had to9 submit a diversity plan to the Gaming10 Board?11
We filed a diversity12 plan with the Gaming Board in conjunction13 with the river site, yes.14
Again, I don't have17 that plan with me, but that plan was18 reviewed in the context of the river19 site.20
With regard25 72 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 to the charitable trusts, can you tell me2 what are those charitable trusts? I3 think you said there were three. What4 are they?5
They're three trusts6 that were set up to help disadvantaged7 children and other charities --8
One of them is11 called the Silver Trust. One of them is12 called -- Silver Family Trust, Rubin13 Trapp Family Trust and Snyder Family14 Trust.15
So these are16 actually family trusts, and those trusts17 will deliver charitable funds to whoever18 they want?19
Well, they'll20 deliver charitable donations to21 charities --22
Well, when you say25 73 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 "family trusts," I don't want the2 connotation to be inappropriate. It's3 very similar to --4
I just asked5 you whether you knew the names, and you6 named three family trusts. Family trust7 was in those three names of the trusts.8
I'm sure you are,13 sir. When someone creates a trust, it's14 similar to putting their name on a15 building. It's just like I'm on the16 Board of Drexel, and when we get a big17 benefactor, that benefactor gets to put18 their name on the building.19 These benefactors got to put20 their names on the trust so that people21 would know who originally funded those22 trusts, and after they funded that trust,23 their obligation and their control is24 relinquished.25 74 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
And they2 have no obligation to provide any3 charitable donations within the City of4 Philadelphia?5
Excuse me.8 They have no obligation to make any9 charitable donations within the City of10 Philadelphia, do they?11
That is not correct.12 The trusts were funded with the13 obligation to make charitable14 contributions. The family --15
And that's19 within what documentation that you can20 provide?21
It's been filed with22 the Gaming Board, and I'd be happy to23 supply it to City Council. I believe it24 was previously supplied to City Council a25 75 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 year ago.2
And those3 trusts are not in existence yet in terms4 of making donations; they will not make5 donations until the project is up and6 running.7
The trusts are only8 going to be funded by the profits from9 this enterprise. So until there are10 profits in this enterprise, the trusts --11 the trusts are funded with the profits12 from this enterprise. Again, to repeat13 my earlier testimony, they were -- the14 enterprise was funded. Stock was15 purchased. That stock was immediately16 put in trust. Those trusts will receive17 the profits from this enterprise and then18 make charitable commitments in the19 Greater Delaware Valley area, including20 Philadelphia.21
There's no25 76 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 tax benefit to the establishment of the2 trust?3
When you say is8 there a tax benefit, you'd have to help9 me with that.10
Is there a11 tax benefit to the establishment of the12 trust and the diversion of 42 percent of13 the profits?14
The individuals that15 made their initial investment have16 relinquished all benefit from those17 trusts. So there's no ongoing tax18 benefit to anyone that was involved with19 those trusts, no, sir.20
Okay. Do we21 know who is going to administer the22 trusts?23
Do we know25 77 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 who is going to administer the trusts?2
There are trustees7 in place in each case that will8 administer those trusts, yes.9
Do I know? Yes.12 They have identified trustees in each13 case.14
How many19 trustees are there? Do you know them by20 name? Can you tell me geographically21 where they live? Can you tell me if they22 have any history in terms of making23 charitable donations within the City of24 Philadelphia?25 78 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
Can you be a4 little bit more specific? I was going to5 sit back and listen to the question and6 wait to receive the documentation you7 were going to send.8
Councilman, to be9 clear, I have not followed the lives of10 the individuals that funded these trusts,11 but they are well known -- their12 charitable nature is well known in13 Philadelphia.14
I'm just15 asking can you tell me anything specific,16 which it doesn't -- you can't tell me17 what was in your Economic Opportunity18 Plan. You can't tell me what was in the19 diversity plan that went to the state20 Gaming Board. You can't tell me what's21 going to be done with those three22 charitable trusts. So, I mean, while it23 sounds good that you're promoting24 economic opportunity and it sounds good25 79 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 that you're promoting charitable causes,2 you don't really have any specifics to3 tell me at this point. But if you can4 forward that through the Chair, that5 would be fine.6 Thank you.7
I will be happy to8 provide you with any data that you'd9 request.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.11 Councilman Clarke.12
Thank you,13 Mr. 14 Actually, Mr. Chairman, I have15 to go to a budget-related meeting with16 leadership, so I'm going to have to17 leave, but I just wanted to make a18 statement. Unfortunately,19 Mr. Greenberger is not here, because this20 is more directed at the Planning21 Commission and one of the bills that is22 before us with respect to changing the23 process. 25 80 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 I have some concerns about,2 one, starting out with the3 characterization -- and it was referenced4 as a part of, quote/unquote, setting a5 preference for changing the CED process6 and it referenced a particular project in7 my Council district, which was American8 Commerce Square. Although we have9 essentially rested the final arbitration10 on that particular project to the11 Planning Commission, it was not without12 substantial conversations and meetings13 with the community. 18 So I don't want to give the19 impression that I am supportive of a20 process in general. If it had not been21 some of those things associated with that22 particular project, particularly the23 leasing of a significant tenant, I24 probably would have required that that25 81 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 particular bill came back before Council2 for final approval. 5 The other thing with respect to6 the reference about the Planning7 Commission in allowing parties to have8 input in a public process -- and this is9 probably not the case, but some people10 can construe this to suggest that somehow11 the City Council process is not a public12 process. I think this is an extremely13 public process, given the fact that we14 are currently in one as we speak. So I15 take exception to that, although not16 knowing Mr. 18 With respect to this language19 about being able to support communities20 in the City that don't have volunteer21 expertise available within their22 residential base, I agree that there are23 substantial communities across the City24 that don't have the ability to do that,25 82 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 but I think that that should be that2 community's choice. We as a city should3 not decide we're going to be the final4 arbiter of that because the community5 doesn't have an opportunity. 19 And, again, I'm going to give20 Mr. 5 I am going to leave my vote,6 because, again, I have to go, and I7 understand the nature of the individual8 who is sponsoring these bills, Councilman9 DiCicco, who I consider a friend and a10 colleague and a person who works very11 hard in their councilmanic district and12 I'm sure that has done due diligence on13 this particular proposal. I'm prepared14 to leave my vote 090295 as yes, assuming15 that all of the things that have been16 asked from the various communities and17 from this body today and this particular18 Committee are met. And this particular19 vote, to some degree I have some20 concerns, but I want to make it clear21 that as an elected member of this body,22 as a Councilperson, who will shortly -- I23 know we have to go. Please tell them24 please don't leave me. 2 As an elected member of this3 body elected by the residents of the 5th4 District, I reserve the right if those5 people in that community want the final6 approval process to rest with the person7 that they have elected. 18 090294. 24 Thank you, Mr. 25 85 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,2 Councilman. 5
Thank6 you, Mr. Chairman.7 Very quickly. Mr. Ford, I8 apologize if you may have said this in9 your opening statement, and I've seen a10 quote in the paper, but I just want to11 again for the record. If everything goes12 as obviously you would like it, Council13 moves the bill, becomes law, the14 negotiations you have work out, ideally15 when do you see the gaming facility16 opening?17
That's23 it. Thank you.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.25 86 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Councilwoman Reynolds Brown.2
Yes. I'd3 like to put my final question in context.4 During the negotiation of the stadiums,5 we went through a similar exercise, and6 we were assured by the builders of the7 stadiums that they would honor the Equal8 Opportunity Plan.9 Fast forward 18 months, 2410 months later, we received phone calls11 from a number of subcontractors and12 discovered that the builder of the13 stadiums did not and were not honoring14 provisions of the Opportunity Plan. And15 so with that context, we've learned to16 ask these questions and to ask for17 specifics, as Councilman Goode has18 stipulated.19 So at the end of the day, who20 is ultimately responsible for the21 accountability tied to the execution of22 the Equal Opportunity Plan? Is it the23 owner? Is it the builder? We need to24 know who.25 87 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
I think in our case2 it will be both. It will be part of our3 contract with any builder.4
So the8 best-case scenario is we get no wrinkles.9 If we get a wrinkle, then we will10 introduce a resolution calling both the11 owner and the builder back into Council12 to help us understand why that agreement13 has not been honored.14
I can only speak to19 the fact that we're committed to the20 commitment that we've made.21
And I'm22 certainly not asking you that. I'm23 simply saying we heard the similar24 statement by --25 88 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
-- by the3 parties in that enterprise and then4 discovered, as I said, 24 months later5 that Council had to step in.6
Surely.9 Similar experience with the10 charitable contributions, I'm always11 pleased to remind people that I made it12 clear to the Mayor at that time and to13 Mr. Banner, Mr. Montgomery, the only way14 you would get my support for this major15 enterprise would be that you do something16 for children, and at the end of the day,17 each one of those teams after nine months18 of back and forth, they each agreed to19 give $1 million per team per year for the20 next 30 years for children. So we21 established a Children's Fund. Today22 that Children's Fund is up and operating.23 Annually I ask to see a list to see24 exactly where those dollars are going to25 89 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 make sure that those dollars are going to2 the five areas stipulated in the3 legislation.4 So I will be speaking with the5 sponsor of this bill and making a request6 that annually you will submit to City7 Council a list of the beneficiaries of8 those charitable organizations.9
I thank you, and I10 believe that under the state law, there's11 a requirement that it be submitted there12 as well.13
Thank you,17 Mr. Chairman.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.19 Any other --20
Just one21 question.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman23 Kelly.24
Thank you,25 90 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Mr. Chairman.2 Mr. Ford, I just have a3 question. If we proceed and pass this4 legislation today, which would permit the5 Gaming Commission to give you the6 approval to move from your Delaware7 Avenue site to 8th and Market, do you8 have any concern about a possible lawsuit9 from someone who did not get the award to10 begin with?11
You know, in America12 it's impossible not to have some concern13 about a lawsuit somewhere.14
Let me answer it17 this way: The investors, past and18 future, have identified that risk and19 have decided to make the financial20 commitments that are necessary to move21 forward. So they're speaking loudly with22 their funds relative to the potential23 success of any lawsuit.24 Under the gaming law in25 91 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Pennsylvania, the license was properly2 granted to us. Under the law in3 Pennsylvania, the Gaming Board is the4 sole arbiter of a relocation petition.5 So within the law, as we and our lawyers6 read it, we have the right to do that.7 And the Gaming Board not just in my8 testimony of April 8th, but in previous9 meetings with them is very aware of what10 the risks are relative to this11 legislation that's in place, and the12 drafters of the legislation provided for13 the future, and we think that we can14 demonstrate good cause for this.15 The one aspect of this that is16 challenging -- and in my previous gaming17 experience, there are only a few places18 in the country that the situation arose.19 In Pennsylvania, the award of the license20 by the state was site specific, and then21 you work with the city to accomplish your22 zoning. That process here in23 Pennsylvania is somewhat unique. Good24 cause is not a decision that the city --25 92 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 we can't use your opposition or your2 concern as a reason for cause. So when3 we examined the site at Strawbridges, we4 said, Are there causal reasons there that5 are sufficient for us to justify a6 relocation petition, and the answer to7 that is that we believe there are. They8 include the fact that we're part of a9 revitalization. They include the fact10 that we're at a hub of public11 transportation. They include the fact12 that we will not disturb traffic as --13
It would be18 a great improvement into that area.19 There's no doubt about it.20
Okay. We're23 just concerned in this Council -- at24 least I am. I would like to see your, I25 93 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 guess, your casino being constructed as2 soon as possible. Due to the budget3 crisis we have, we need all the revenue4 we can get right now, and the sooner that5 we get this on board, the better off6 we're going to be. That's all I was7 bringing it up for. I hope and wish you8 well.9
Well, thank you,10 Councilman. It's an appropriate time11 with your remarks to say that we're very12 appreciative of the complete, thorough13 and transparent process that the City has14 undertaken and the enthusiasm that15 they've shown for our relocation.16
Thank you.17 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,19 Councilman.20 Any other questions for this21 panel from the Committee?22 (No response.)23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,24 gentlemen. I appreciate your time.25 94 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
Thank you for having2 us.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I would4 just ask that any materials that were5 requested be submitted to the Chair ASAP.6
Yes, sir.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.8 Have a good afternoon.9 Mr. Jim Schneller and Matt10 Ruben.11 You're not testifying, Matt?12
No.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I got you14 down here.15 Oh, okay. Matt, just sit on16 the side for now. I apologize. Just17 have a seat.18 Good afternoon, Mr. Schneller.19 Please identify yourself for the record20 and proceed with your testimony. We have21 a number of witnesses to follow you, so22 we're asking that you summarize, if you23 can.24 Do you have any written25 95 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 testimony for us?2
No.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.4 Proceed with your testimony. We will try5 to limit everyone to two to no more than6 three minutes. Thank you.7
Yes. Thank the8 Council, Mr. DiCicco. 12 If I could get right to the13 matter, we believe that the Council,14 despite the point in time where much is15 being made about expedience and the16 intent of the Act, the Gaming Act, Act17 71, we'd like to point out that Section18 13 (25) of the Act still states that the19 Gaming Board and presumably everyone20 involved in the process shall take21 accurate and full consideration of issues22 like increased demand for public23 healthcare. 15 We'd like to point out that the16 City Zoning Code naturally presumably can17 extend the scope while including that18 scope of public healthcare and increases19 in costs to the state and the city20 through the needs of the Zoning Code,21 like general health, safety, order and22 general welfare, and we, of course,23 emphasize what is still maintained in24 most zoning decisions and considerations,25 97 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 the morals of the community. 25 98 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 We believe that despite any implements2 promised by the casino, proof of age will3 fall to the wayside, probably resulting4 in abuse of alcohol as well. 19 Finally, if I could address for20 30 seconds the matter of this entire21 amendment. We believe that the Charter22 is discouraging and, frankly, fatal to23 this effort to put the approval process24 before the Planning Commission. The25 99 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Charter in Section 2-305 allows2 additional powers to commissions and3 other bodies, but not inconsistent with4 the Charter. We don't believe the5 Charter intends a special interest or6 over-technical powers be granted to a7 board, certainly not when it's coupled8 with special interests to a group of9 citizens, in this case gambling10 interests. 15 And a final point in that16 regard is the fact that the backing-out17 provision in the Code is there for a18 specific reason. )9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Seeing10 none, I will now ask Mr. Gabriel Li,11 Mr. )18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good19 afternoon, Mr. Ruben. 22
Members of the23 Committee, thank you for this opportunity24 to testify. My name is Matt Ruben. I am25 101 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 the elected President of the Northern2 Liberties Neighbors Association.3 On Bill 090295, amending the4 Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the5 designation of two parcels along the East6 Market Street from C-5 to CED and vice7 versa, the NLNA and the Northern8 Liberties community is unable to make a9 determination as to the suitability or10 impact of the zoning change without a11 publicly available proposal or Plan of12 Development and independent studies13 assessing the economic, traffic and14 social impacts on adjacent neighborhoods15 and on tourism in the nearby national16 historic district. And given that17 Foxwoods would be a tenant in a building18 rather than the owner of a site, this19 raises the question of whether the rules20 of CED should even be applied to this21 entire parcel.22 We recognize the difficult23 position in which Council finds itself.24 At the same time, it appears this change25 102 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 is being considered in the absence of2 important information that normally3 accompanies a change in the Zoning Maps.4 On Bill 090294, amending5 Section 14-403 of The Philadelphia Code6 to remove the requirement that City7 Council approve a Plan of Development for8 a Commercial Entertainment District, the9 general principle of empowering the City10 Planning Commission to guide development,11 as Mr. Greenberger testified, is a good12 one, which the NLNA supports. However,13 casino development, as the Committee well14 knows, has always been an exceptional15 situation for reasons I don't need to go16 into. The reason the casino zoning17 process looks like it does, the reason we18 are here today is because the taxpayers19 and voters of Philadelphia have been20 systematically deprived of political21 representation by the state Gaming Act,22 the state Legislature and the state23 Supreme Court. Therefore, the removal of24 Council from the approval process and of25 103 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 a Plan of Development, the only phase of2 the zoning process in which any3 substantive details or information will4 be available to the public, eliminates5 crucial governmental checks and balances6 and constitutes further7 disenfranchisement of the citizens of8 Philadelphia.9 The NLNA applauds the new10 Planning Commission and commends11 Councilman DiCicco in particular for his12 many years of leadership on a host of13 important development-related issues in14 the 1st District. In this particular15 case, however, to change the rules of the16 process midstream, for this would also17 apply to SugarHouse, represents, in our18 view, an abdication of Council of its19 role as the people's representative,20 putting all meaningful authority in the21 hands of an administrative body, whose22 members, skilled as they are, have been23 elected by no one. We urge you not to24 report this bill favorably out of25 104 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Committee.2 Thank you.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,4 Mr. Ruben.5 Any questions for this witness?6 (No response.)7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.8 The next panel will be Rosanne9 Loesch, Vern Anastasio, Margaret10 Kalalian -- I apologize -- and Tully11 Speaker.12 (Witnesses approached witness13 table.)14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I15 understand, Ms. Loesch, that you spoke16 with my assistant and you will be17 speaking on behalf of the four groups?18
Yes. I'm going to19 be speaking on behalf of the four groups.20 I'm going to read one statement, and21 Tully Speaker from the Board of Logan22 Square has a very short statement that he23 okayed beforehand. I mean, to get --24 we're not going to take any more than --25 105 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I just2 want to make sure we have it correct, if3 there was any change.4
Yes. We have two5 statements.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So whoever7 would like to go first, proceed by8 identifying yourself for the record.9
Okay. Good10 afternoon to the Committee. My name is11 Rosanne Loesch. I am a Board member of12 Society Hill Civic Association and the13 incoming President, and I would like my14 colleagues to introduce themselves,15 please.16
My name is Tully17 Speaker. I'm a member of the Logan18 Square Neighborhood Association, have19 served as its President for several20 terms, and I'm currently a Board member21 and Chairman of its Long Range Planning22 Committee.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Of the24 what?25 106 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
Long Range2 Planning Committee.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.4
My name is5 Margaret Kalalian. I am a Board member6 of the East Passyunk Crossing Civic7 Association and the Zoning and Planning8 Committee Chair.9
Good afternoon.10 Vern Anastasio, President of Bella Vista11 United Civic Association.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Before you13 begin, I'd just like to know, are all of14 you representing the various associations15 or are you here as individuals?16
We're representing17 the Boards of our associations.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And you19 are representing East Passyunk Crossing?20
Yes.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Just want22 to make sure, then. Thank you.23
And I did want to24 say we thought we were going to be25 107 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 following Matt Ruben from Northern2 Liberties. 9 Our four Boards have voted to10 oppose any casino on East Market Street11 because of the potential impacts on12 densely populated residential13 neighborhoods in close proximity to the14 Strawbridge Building. Our four15 associations, which represent over 75,00016 residents, agree that the passage of the17 CED legislation for a casino in the18 Strawbridge Building is premature and19 should not be approved. Many City20 residents and community leaders have21 repeatedly called for the City to first22 conduct a cost-benefit analysis based on23 the extensively documented potential24 impacts our neighborhoods and our city25 108 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 will, in all likelihood, suffer from a2 slots operation so close to densely3 populated residential areas. 6 Last week's Pew Charitable7 Trust poll showed and concluded that the8 majority of Philadelphians do not support9 a casino, overwhelmingly do not support a10 casino, on Market Street. We ask you to11 put the brakes on approval for casino12 zoning in the heart of one of America's13 premiere cities, the largest in the14 nation to potentially host two massive15 slot parlors. We know that countless16 academic studies have documented the17 social and economic costs of casinos to18 host communities. 24 In addition to waiting for a25 109 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 cost-benefit analysis, we urge you to2 wait until Foxwoods submits a Plan of3 Development which can be reviewed by our4 communities as well as independent5 experts. 13 Unfortunately, very few American cities14 can boast of densely populated15 residential neighborhoods in the heart of16 the city. This unique feature attracts17 employers and countless taxpayers who18 contribute to the economic well-being of19 our city. 23 A second economic engine is the24 historic and cultural tourism that draws25 110 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 millions of visitors to our city and is2 Philadelphia's unique calling card. Let3 us not forget that 8th and Market is only4 two blocks from Independence National5 Park and three blocks from a world6 heritage site, Independence Hall, the7 birthplace of our nation. We are at risk8 of besmirching the very brand that makes9 us unique and such a destination for tens10 of thousands of families every year. 20 Therefore, we urge the21 Committee not to approve a CED, or22 Commercial Entertainment District, at 8th23 and Market. However, if you do approve24 this CED for the Strawbridge Building, we25 111 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 urge you to amend it to include2 reasonable zoning and land use3 restrictions that would reduce gambling4 addictions and their impacts. 20 Thank you for your time and21 attention. 2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Before you3 begin, Mr. 6
Yes. I named two7 of them. One was restricting hours of8 operation to less than 24/7, restricting9 lending machines on the premises.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO:11 Restricting what kinds of machines?12
Lending on the13 premises. There are ways for people to14 get cash advances --15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Oh,16 lending machines. Okay. ATMs and stuff17 like that. Okay. All right.18
Yes. And also --19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The20 automated loan shark. Never mind.21
There's also other22 types of things, like mandatory monthly23 statements to gamblers showing wins and24 losses, an annual study and public report25 113 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 on machine operations, slot machine2 operations, which include demographics,3 which would help us target impacts.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You5 recognize that all of those requests City6 Council has no jurisdiction over? Those7 are all part of the Gaming Act? I'm not8 debating. I'm just letting you know in9 case you already don't know. We have no10 control over the hours of operation.11 That was all part of the Gaming Act. As12 you know, we have not had any real input13 into where these casinos go, because14 every time we have tried to convince the15 state Legislature or the Supreme Court to16 hear our plea, 17 out of 17 times we have17 been denied.18 So I hear what you're saying19 and I'm not discounting those as not20 reasonable requests, but we really have21 no authority as a body in City Council to22 make any of those changes. Those are the23 things you need to be talking to your24 State Representatives about.25 114 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
In terms of the2 legality of it, I think that there is3 some difference of opinion. Just give me4 one example -- to give you one example,5 on the limitation of hours, we may or may6 not -- and you may be right -- have the7 legal right to limit the hours of8 operation of the slot machine operator9 itself. That may be true. I don't know.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It is.11
Under the Gaming12 Act. Okay. Let's assume for this that13 is true. We have the ability and should14 have the ability to control the15 non-gaming areas that would come under16 this CED. There is an argument to be17 made that, for example, the restaurants18 that are thought of for the 1st floor and19 retail and other types of kind of support20 establishments that are outside of the21 gaming floors would be something that22 would be under the City of Philadelphia's23 jurisdiction. I'm saying that there are24 people that are looking into that now,25 115 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 and it is possible that the City could2 exercise more restrictions than you're3 saying.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: On that5 latter part, you may be right. I'm not6 an attorney. I don't pretend to be one.7 I think that's something that the8 attorneys and the landlord and others9 will have a say in that process. You may10 be right. We might be able to limit some11 of that, but as for the hours of12 operation, you were at that meeting I13 attended in the Hopkinson House not too14 long ago. State Representative O'Brien15 had made a number of statements relating16 to some of the things that I was doing,17 suggesting that I was using some fear18 tactics. Have you talked to him about19 introducing legislation to amend the20 hours of operation? And if you have,21 fine. If you haven't, I would suggest22 that you do.23
Well, I certainly24 am in conversations with our state25 116 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 legislators, but what I'm saying is that2 the CED is a right of the City to3 legalize a certain type of zoning, and4 the operations of the slot machines are5 going to be on two floors, from what I6 understand now. The rest of it is state7 office building, restaurants, retail that8 will not be under the control of the9 casino operator.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Unless11 they are part of the operation of the12 casino.13
Well, I think it's14 something that the City should be looking15 into, because it's a way of -- I mean,16 again, we're against this location,17 period, but it's a way to exercise some18 kind of protection for the residents of19 Philadelphia.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.21 Okay.22 Mr. Speaker.23
Thank you. I am24 authorized by Robert Stewart, who is now25 117 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 President of LSNA, the Logan Square2 Neighborhood Association, to report that3 at its regular meeting on the 14th of4 April of this year, the LSNA Board5 considered zoning Bills 090294 and 5. On6 a motion duly made and seconded, the LSNA7 Board affirmed that LSNA continues to8 oppose the building of casinos close to9 residential neighborhoods and added that10 LSNA is in particular opposed to the11 Strawbridge site for a casino on Market12 Street East.13 First, we recognized locating a14 casino anywhere on Market Street East has15 not yet been the result of formal city16 planning. To our knowledge, there is no17 plan for Market Street East. I point out18 that in contrast to the apparent haste in19 which these bills were drawn, LSNA has20 worked in concert --21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO:22 Mr. Speaker, if you would --23
Am I drifting24 away? I'm sorry.25 118 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yes, you2 are.3
Thank you.4 Let me begin again from, I5 point out that in contrast to the6 apparent haste in which these bills were7 drawn, LSNA has worked in concert with8 the City Planning Commission for two9 years to develop the Logan Square10 Neighborhood Parkway Plan to serve as the11 guide for a future development of our12 neighborhood. There is no plan approved13 by the Planning Commission for Market14 Street East.15 Second, these pending bills16 seem contrary to the still very early17 efforts of the Planning Commission to18 develop a carefully considered plan for19 Market East, as exemplified by its recent20 consultation with Center City21 neighborhood group and business22 representatives and its engagement of23 Ehrenkrantz, Eckstut and Kuhn Architects24 to that end. We firmly believe planning25 119 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 should come before zoning, not zoning2 first and planning last.3 Third, Philadelphia is4 internationally recognized as a historic5 and cultured city. We do not see and,6 therefore, ask for an explanation of how7 the vision of a casino installed on8 Market East in any way supports the9 longstanding and carefully nurtured image10 of Philadelphia as a historic and11 cultured city.12 Fourth, an idea offered in13 support of the Entertainment District14 along Market Street is that a casino on15 Market will bring money into the City.16 The proposed casino-Entertainment17 District is just a short walk from18 Independence Mall. Independence Mall19 represents why and how it is that this is20 a nation. From a marketing perspective,21 the idea of a casino there corrodes the22 idea of Philadelphia as a historic city.23 Fifth, I point out that with24 these bills, City Council appears to be25 120 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 abdicating its authority to the Planning2 Commission with regard to the3 Entertainment District by failing to4 require that the Planning Commission5 actions come before Council.6 Councilman Clarke a few minutes7 ago spoke to this point, and I would be8 pleased to have greater detail in how9 this interaction presumably will proceed.10 Lastly, LSNA has strong11 concerns about the proximity of gambling12 sites so close to residential13 neighborhoods, including ours, because of14 the documented increase in crime and15 other undesirable behaviors. LSNA has16 not taken a position against gambling or17 casinos, but we cannot support the Market18 Street site because there are too many19 unanswered questions that make this more20 of a gamble than a sure thing.21 In plain English, we think this22 is a bad bet.23 Thank you for your attention.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.25 121 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Either of you two -- no? Okay.2 I do have a question for all3 four of you, and Rosanne I'm very4 familiar with, because you were part of5 the effort in opposing the Delaware and6 Reed site/Columbus Boulevard and Reed7 site as relates to the Foxwoods facility.8 You were about to say9 something?10
Yeah. I was just11 about to say that the three civic12 associations that I'm with here were also13 part of the coalition that tried to14 re-site the two waterfront sites. They15 were all part of it.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, you17 were the most active, and that's no18 disrespect to the others. I don't recall19 but maybe seeing one of the panel members20 at one meeting over the three, four-year21 period.22 My question is, you don't want23 it on Market Street. There was a huge24 effort to convince Foxwoods in this case25 122 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 to look for an alternative site. Putting2 aside your differences about gaming and3 any other concerns that you may have as4 the 8th and Market site will have an5 impact on neighboring communities, if6 either of the four of you had to make a7 decision between the 8th and Market site8 or the Columbus and Reed site, which of9 the two sites would you select?10
Well, that's not a11 choice --12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: If you had13 to make a choice, gaming issues aside,14 between either of the two facilities.15 Since no one wanted it at Columbus and16 Reed, we have now come up with an17 alternative site and it's being suggested18 we don't want it here either. If you had19 to make that decision, which of the two20 sites would any of the four of you21 select?22
Well, as one of my23 Board members said when this was24 announced --25 123 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm not2 asking about your Board member,3 Ms. Loesch.4
Can I just answer?5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I need to6 know what you -- you're here testifying.7
I am going to8 answer your question.9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.10
I just wanted to11 preface it by saying as one of my Board12 members said, this site is as bad or13 worse than -- is equally bad to the site14 on Delaware Avenue.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Would you16 prefer that we go back to Columbus and17 Reed?18
Well, can I answer19 it this way: When I went to --20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's a21 simple question.22
I know, but let me23 answer it.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm asking25 124 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 you, do you prefer 8th and Market or do2 you prefer Delaware and Reed? And that3 question is for all four of you.4
At the press5 conference last September, Michael6 Thomas, the CEO of Foxwoods -- let me7 finish my sentence -- was asked --8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: If you'd9 answer my question, I'd let you finish10 your sentence.11
If this site12 doesn't work out -- and at that time he13 was announcing the Gallery site -- will14 you consider another site, a third site,15 and his immediate answer was yes. I16 don't think --17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm not18 Michael Thomas. I was at that press19 conference.20
I know you were.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: This is22 today, and the only options that I know23 of that I have to deal with and this24 Committee and the Council will have to25 125 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 deal with is 8th and Market or possibly2 if Foxwoods either cannot get the deal3 done here or feels that there's going to4 be too much resistance and they opt to go5 back to Delaware and Reed, which of the6 two sites is more appropriate? And this7 is not a question for anyone -- this is a8 question for you, all four of you.9
Well, I guess, you10 know what? My Board hasn't been worried11 about that --12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm asking13 you.14
Okay. I haven't15 been worried about that, and I'll tell16 you why. I don't think Foxwoods would17 ever get the financing to go back to18 Delaware and Reed.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Rosanne,20 you're a very intelligent lady.21
Thank you.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's a23 simple question. I have the24 responsibility --25 126 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
I'm smart enough2 not to be cornered.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm4 cornered. You all put me in the corner.5 Because you didn't want them on Delaware6 Avenue, we got a new site. I'm asking7 you. I'm asking you.8
I know you've been9 in a corner.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm asking11 you.12
I recognize that.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Eighth and14 Market versus Delaware and Reed/Columbus15 and Reed, which of the two sites would16 you prefer?17
I think that you18 and I differ as to what the choices are.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: They're20 the only choices. I don't know of any21 other choice as it relates to Foxwoods.22 Mr. Speaker -- I feel like I'm23 talking to Tip O'Neill.24 Mr. Speaker, I'm sorry.25 127 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
Not a problem.2 That same question has troubled me, and I3 have visited the City Planning Commission4 a number of times and worked with people5 on the City Planning Commission6 extensively on our neighborhood problems7 and, in the process, considered where the8 hell else we can put a casino, and I9 asked Laura Spina of the Planning10 Commission, Is there any place that is11 not close to a residential neighborhood?12 And she said, I don't know, but13 I will ask and we will look at the maps14 and find them. And, in fact, at the next15 meeting, she brought back a large-scale16 map of Philadelphia with, as I remember,17 four sites marked out in some bright18 contrasting color that were approximately19 half a mile from the nearest residential20 location, and, therefore, I would say21 you're offering us -- your question is a22 Faustian question and, therefore, I would23 say we need to go back to Planning and24 ask --25 128 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO:2 Mr. Speaker, excuse me. I know what3 you're going to say. I don't need a4 sermon. I'm just asking a question.5 Councilman Greenlee has a question. I'll6 come back to you.7
Just very8 quickly just on the one point,9 Mr. Speaker. You said, where can we put10 a casino. The problem is that it's --11 Foxwoods' decision has to factor in here.12 There's only so many places they're going13 to go, and they decided, after much work14 by Councilman DiCicco and other people,15 to relocate.16 But they decide where they want17 to go, and then we have to decide whether18 it's the better site, and that is the19 problem. It's not that we can order20 Foxwoods to go anywhere. They were given21 the right by the Gaming Commission. We22 can debate that forever, right, wrong,23 indifferent. They were given to them.24 They're making a decision whether to move25 129 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 or not, and I think Councilman DiCicco's2 question is right. I have to admit --3 and I know I'm going to get people mad at4 me right now, but you're going to hear5 it. I'll answer his question. I think6 8th and Market is the better of the two7 sites.8 Thank you.9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And just10 let me -- I physically went out and11 looked at alternative sites, tried in my12 district, not to put the burden on13 someone else's district, and I was not14 able to find a site that was beyond the15 1,500 foot boundary that we all would16 like to see. I did find a site that was17 just south of my district in Council18 President Verna's district on Columbus19 Boulevard, just south of the Walt Whitman20 Bridge, that was outside of the ten-mile21 radius. So we didn't have the issue of22 being within the ten-mile radius.23 I personally took attorneys who24 represented Foxwoods out to the site to25 130 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 look at it. They brought that2 information back to Foxwoods. They, in3 turn, looked at the site and they4 decided, for whatever their reasons are,5 that that was not a location where they6 wanted to be.7 We have fought these sites day8 and night for four years. I mean, I've9 done other things in my lifetime, but10 this has probably consumed more than any11 other issue I've ever done in my 63 years12 on earth, and it came down to decisions13 were being made for us by the Supreme14 Court. Seventeen cases. We lost all 1715 cases. I'm faced with the reality that16 if we continue to fight on this location,17 that either one of two things will18 happen. They will go to the Board and19 say, Here they go again. They wanted us20 off the river. We've exhausted tens of21 millions of dollars. We have found22 another site, but the answer is, no, not23 here. I'm not making the argument for24 them, but that's the way it's going to25 131 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 go.2 The Gaming Board will either3 make a decision to give them. We appeal4 it. It will go to the Supreme Court, and5 I don't think we're going to win case No.6 18. They will get the CED and we will be7 out of the process. I'm in the process.8 By me being in the process, the people I9 represent are in the process.10 So I go back to my original11 question. Given the choice of 8th and12 Market versus Delaware and Reed, which of13 the two sites? Because if I was paying14 attention to polls, as most politicians15 do, it would be a no-brainer for me to16 answer the question it's got to be 8th17 and -- Delaware and Reed, because the18 recent poll, the Inquirer I believe it19 was, suggested after the poll that the20 majority of Philadelphians believe that21 the casino should be at Delaware and22 Reed. But don't tell that to the people23 in Pennsport and Queen Village. But24 that's what the poll across the City of25 132 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Philadelphia said it should be at2 Delaware and Reed versus 8th and Market.3 So I'm going against the poll trend, but4 no matter where I go, I'm going to have5 opposition. I understand that. That's6 what I get paid to do.7 One more time. Mr. Anastasio,8 if you had a choice -- you're an9 attorney. I know attorneys, like my son10 is an attorney, they kind of like to11 stretch it.12
I'll make it13 quick. I believe honestly that in the14 1st Council District at least the only15 site worse than Strawbridges is the16 alternative at Delaware and Reed.17 That being said, we're18 respectfully asking this Committee today19 not to pick or make a judgment call on20 which site, but simply to hold up the CED21 legislation briefly so that you and the22 folks you all represent could find out23 more about what would actually be at 8th24 and Market.25 133 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We are2 going through that, and I appreciate3 that.4
And that's5 really the only request.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And I7 understand, and we are doing that, but8 did I hear you right, ideally Delaware9 and Reed/Columbus and Reed?10
Ideally,11 there's no ideal situation.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Between13 the two.14
The only thing15 worse than the Strawbridge site in the16 1st District is Delaware and Reed.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So 8th and18 Market is more advantageous?19
I answered your20 question.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You're22 doing the lawyer stuff. If you had a23 choice, is it 8th and Market or Columbus24 and Reed?25 134 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951
I don't have2 that choice.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But I'm4 asking you. You're asking me to make a5 decision and not moving forward on this6 legislation.7
All we're8 asking you today is not to move forward9 on this legislation.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So you11 have no particular favorite site between12 the two?13
I think they're14 both bad, but the only place that's15 worse --16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: As I said,17 you are an attorney, and I appreciate it.18 Yes, ma'am.19
Councilman20 DiCicco, we appreciate all the work and21 anguish that Council and all the22 stakeholders who have been involved in23 this issue from the beginning have had to24 endure. We've had a tremendous amount of25 135 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 our lives disrupted by this particular2 issue.3 I think the question is4 unanswerable in the same way that the5 theme of a film called Sophie's Choice is6 an untenable question. It's like asking7 which child do you sacrifice. We cannot8 do that. We're just asking that we be9 provided with the correct data,10 independent information in order to try11 to make a rational choice so that the12 best choice for this city can be made.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, I14 have a choice in front of me and I've had15 choices in front of me for about four16 years as it relates to gaming, because17 both casino licenses were awarded in my18 district. And there are a lot of people19 who aspire to run for office. There are20 those who think it may not be such a bad21 job. I get paid to make decisions. My22 decision is, in spite of the fact that I23 know there are some people who will not24 look upon me favorably, but I've learned25 136 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 a long time ago that you can't make2 everybody happy. It's an impossibility.3 I believe, given the choice, that 8th and4 Market is the best of the two sites.5 But I wish I could have had6 that answer from one of you, but I7 couldn't, but thank you anyway for8 trying.9
May I offer this12 idea? You've asked us to decide between13 two choices. The City Planning14 Commission has identified, I think, four15 or five alternative choices that are not16 near residential. I suggest that17 although you have taken Foxwoods18 attorneys to one of those sites, they19 should be taken to the other four and20 allow Foxwoods to solve this question,21 because it is they who will be putting22 the money into whatever they develop or23 who will be taking their money out.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's a25 137 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 good point, but it's my understanding2 that they have already had the3 opportunity to look at those sites and4 they have been rejected.5
That's6 information I did not have. Thank you.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.8 Any other questions for these9 witnesses?10 (No response.)11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.12 Next panel, John Chin, George13 Moy and Mary Yee.14 (Witnesses approached witness15 table.)16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good17 afternoon. You decide among yourself who18 will speak first, and whoever is speaking19 first, please identify yourself for the20 record and proceed with your testimony.21
Good afternoon,22 Councilman DiCicco and honorary members23 of the City Council. Thank you for24 allowing me to speak this afternoon.25 138 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Thank you for the opportunity to testify2 before the Committee. My name is John3 Chin, C-H-I-N, and I am the Executive4 Director of the Philadelphia Chinatown5 Development Corporation. I am here today6 to ask the Committee to withhold7 advancement of Bill No. 090294 and8 090295.9 My organization, PCDC, is a10 non-profit community development11 corporation which has served the12 Chinatown community for more than 4013 years. We have lifted many families out14 of poverty and brought about many15 improvements through our neighborhood16 planning initiatives, beautification and17 greening projects, financial literacy and18 homeownership counseling, commercial19 corridor development, affordable housing20 developments for families and senior21 citizens and many more endeavors. Thanks22 to Councilman DiCicco and many of our23 partnerships with government,24 corporations and community foundations,25 139 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 we have been able to accomplish all that2 we have.3 PCDC's work is unfinished.4 There are many needs in the community and5 not enough resources. We know that6 casinos are not compatible with7 neighborhoods. Chinatown does not want a8 casino in our neighborhood for the same9 reasons that the riverfront communities10 do not want a casino.11 We are opposed to the re-siting12 of the Foxwoods casino to 801 Market13 Street. This puts Foxwoods across the14 street from the southern edge of15 Chinatown, a distance closer to a16 neighborhood than either riverfront site.17 This will place the casino one block from18 Chinatown's largest pre-school,19 Children's Village.20 There are many impacts and21 costs that Chinatown and the City must be22 well informed about. It is essential23 that the City is proactive and study the24 impacts to determine the social and25 140 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 economic costs to its citizens and the2 City.3 I've been here an hour and a4 half listening to the testimony of5 Foxwoods and Mr. Brian Ford, and while he6 spoke a lot about the casino and the7 progress, I did not hear a lot about the8 details. These are the things that the9 Chinatown community is looking for,10 details to the proposal of Foxwoods at11 801 Market Street.12 Bill 090294 as introduced does13 not offer a thorough process for14 transparency or an adequate opportunity15 for community input. In fact, the bill16 as introduced relinquishes City Council's17 power to weigh in on one of the most18 important issues that will affect the19 City for decades to come. I am asking20 you, the Committee, to amend the bill to21 guarantee a process that is informative22 and inclusive of the community. I am23 also asking you to amend the bill so that24 any information that is received from25 141 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Foxwoods be made public immediately upon2 receipt. I am asking that you amend the3 bill to require the City Planning4 Commission to perform independent studies5 of the traffic, parking, environmental,6 economic and social impacts to the7 communities, particularly Chinatown,8 which will sustain the most direct burden9 from this proposed development.10 This is a project that we have11 no expertise in. This is a project that12 we as a city have no experience in, and13 this is a project that there are no best14 practices that can show us what impact a15 casino has in a large center city area.16 Foxwoods has had six months17 since the last passing of CED legislation18 on November 1st to provide plans and19 studies to the City of Philadelphia and20 this community. We have seen none to21 date.22 So in closing, I am asking this23 Committee to not move Bill 09029424 forward.25 142 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Thank you.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.3
Good afternoon.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You have5 to just bring the mike close to you and6 speak directly into it.7
Good afternoon,8 Councilman DiCicco and members of the9 Rules Committee. 15 I am here today to speak to the16 zoning ordinance changes in 090294 and17 090295. We support the change in 09029518 of the CED designation back to C-5 for19 the Gallery area and oppose the change of20 the Strawbridge and Clothier block from21 C-5 to CED, which is intentionally to22 allow the Foxwoods casino to be sited23 there. 25 143 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 The proposed casino signifies a2 disruption of the social fabric of3 Chinatown. It will disrupt our lives,4 and it portends serious negative social,5 economic and public health consequences6 for our children, families, businesses7 and neighborhoods. It threatens the8 integrity of our 140-year-old historic9 inner-city community, one continuously10 inhabited and developed by Chinese11 Americans. 15 Regarding process and 090294,16 contrary to promises by the Mayor,17 Councilman DiCicco and City Planning18 officials, the process for informing and19 involving the communities most affected20 by the casino sitings and the public at21 large has not been timely, transparent or22 inclusive. And we find it despicable23 that the Mayor is accelerating and even24 trying to institutionalize a municipal25 144 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 approval process for Plans of Development2 in CEDs that is still more removed from3 the citizenry. 6 Ceding authority to the City7 Planning Commission for final approval of8 development plans is purportedly,9 according to the Mayor and Councilman10 DiCicco -- and I heard this with my own11 ears -- to take it out of the realm of12 politics. Now, six members of the13 Planning Commission are appointed by the14 Mayor and three are ex-officio from his15 upper Administration. So how is this not16 political? 19 We turn to you as our elected20 officials to represent our interests and21 to be accountable to the citizens of22 Philadelphia. 4 So we do not approve this5 circumvention around our elected6 officials, and we ask the Rules Committee7 to amend the proposed zoning ordinance to8 include provisions for a genuine public9 engagement process for vetting Plans of10 Development. 14 We also ask that the ordinance15 require that all potential impacts of the16 casinos, especially economic and social,17 be carefully examined by disinterested18 parties. 21 No community should have to22 tolerate what casinos bring with them -23 gambling addiction, cheap commercial uses24 that follow the trade, increased local25 146 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 traffic, increased crime and the2 disinvestment as families and small3 businesses start to see the quality of4 life diminish. 7 What is the logic of building8 up the riverfront or Market Street East9 with casinos if people in communities are10 going to suffer from it? 17
My name is George18 Moy.19 This month will be the 43rd20 year that I have testified before this21 body, all in the effort to save Chinatown22 or to mitigate the adverse impacts of23 over 16 major urban renewal projects.24 Given the brief time allotted to us to25 147 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 state our case, I will not be able to2 name all of them. The first project that3 took away a huge portion of Chinatown at4 its northern boundary was the Vine Street5 Expressway, and that was in May of 1966.6 Other projects in the interim cut off7 additional large segments of Chinatown to8 the east and the west. All total,9 Chinatown lost nearly one-half of its10 land mass, residential and commercial11 properties. More recently, we were able12 to stave off the proposed Philly Ball13 Park. We are now facing the negative14 impact of the Pennsylvania Convention15 Center expansion.16 Today we face a more insidious17 issue, an issue that all Philadelphians18 need to be wary about, not just19 Chinatown. If the authorities succeed in20 pushing through the ordinances and21 amendments being considered by this body,22 then the power of the people is being23 eaten away. The precedence would be24 established whereby a neighborhood's25 148 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 ability to protect its quality of life2 can be circumvented prior to a project3 being even proposed or then built in4 their community.5 There are no specific6 proposals, no drawings, nothing, and yet7 we are expected to roll over and play8 dead. Also, the required egress and9 ingress into a building that has not yet10 been designed is being changed. Where is11 the traffic study? It's like putting the12 cart before the horse. It just doesn't13 make any sense.14 What other neighborhood has15 been subjected to such indignities and to16 so many major onslaughts? Why Chinatown?17 Is it because we are a small ethnic18 community? Is it racial discrimination?19 I have in my possession20 gambling quotes compiled by Professor21 John W. Kindt, Professor of Business22 Administration of the University of23 Illinois. It contains 85 negative24 reasons why gambling is not good for the25 149 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 economy, the city, state or country. Are2 the officials aware of the study? Are3 they even curious as to the contents of4 the study? Is it not their5 responsibility to know all the facts and6 all the issues before making a decision?7 If not, is it not considered dereliction8 of their duties and responsibilities?9 The National Gambling Impact10 Study Commission as federally mandated11 submitted its final report in June of12 1999, nearly ten years ago. The report13 has unanimous support of all nine14 commissioners. The report painted a dark15 and often devastating portrait of the16 effects of widespread legalized gambling17 on America's families and communities.18 The report concludes that more19 research can lead to greater20 understanding and more informed policy.21 It seems to me that much more can be22 learned if we review what has transpired23 in the past ten years with regards to24 gambling. Better informed will lead to25 150 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 better decisions.2 Chinatown is an asset to the3 City. We deserve better treatment.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.5 Thank you for your testimony. Thank you6 for the time you've spent here today.7 I guess if I pose a similar8 question to this panel as I posed to the9 last, I think I would have the answer.10 But I won't pose -- I won't put you on11 the spot.12 Thank you.13 Any questions for this witness?14
Councilman, maybe I15 shouldn't open my mouth, because I'm not16 in your league, but in an attempt to17 answer the question that you put to the18 previous speaker, I would say if I were19 faced with somebody telling me I got to20 kill one of two sons, I would not do21 that. Believe me, I would fight tooth22 and nail to save both of them.23 I don't envy you in your24 position. It boils down to politics.25 151 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 You have more votes in South Philadelphia2 than you have in Chinatown.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That has4 never been a reason for my making this5 decision. You may not believe me,6 Mr. Moy, but it's never been a reason for7 my making this decision. It has nothing8 to do with it. Really, you either9 believe me or you don't, but that's the10 honest truth. It has nothing to do with11 the demographics. It has nothing to do12 with where -- I actually have a higher13 vote percentage in Center City than I do14 in South Philadelphia, and I consider15 Chinatown to be part of the Center City16 community.17
Thank you.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Four19 elections running. It may not be that20 way the next time, but it has been in the21 past.22
I understand that23 it's the state government that has put24 you in a box.25 152 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Put all of2 us. None of us voted for this.3
But then our leaders4 should fight tooth and nail the fact that5 they're trying to push this gambling on6 us.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO:8 Understood.9
I mean, I understand,10 and I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The only12 thing I will tell you is what I have been13 saying in the past. If the Strawbridges14 site becomes the casino -- and it's still15 an "if" -- I will do everything I can in16 my power to make sure that you get the17 best protection and the best benefits18 agreement that I can possibly create for19 your community. That's the only thing I20 can guarantee you. Outside of that, it's21 probably still a crap shoot at this point22 as to where it's going to wind up. I23 think it's going to be Strawbridges, but24 I could be wrong. It's not over until25 153 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 it's over, as they say.2
I have one question.3 I have a hearing problem and I'm tone4 death, and I miss more than half of the5 discussions that go on. Is it possible6 for this body to provide hearing7 assistance?8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Oh,9 hearing assistance for in the future?10 Well, we will bring that up to the11 Council President and discuss that going12 forward.13
I anticipate in the14 future there will be many more hearings.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.16 Thank you again.17 The next two are Gary Lee and18 Ursula Reed.19 And is there anyone else who20 wishes to testify who did not? Okay.21 Sir, would you mind coming up to the22 witness table.23 (Witnesses approached witness24 table.)25 154 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Please2 identify yourself for the record and3 proceed with your testimony.4
Thank you,5 Mr. DiCicco. I'm Gary Lee.6 I and my family have resided in7 Philadelphia Chinatown for more than 308 years. I'm here to oppose the passage or9 favorable recommendation of both10 ordinances that are now before this body.11 I submit there are three main reasons12 that I have why these should not be13 favorably reported.14 Number one, the Philadelphia15 Entertainment Development Partners is16 currently delinquent in their real estate17 taxes to the City of Philadelphia for the18 riverfront location, which is 1499 South19 Christopher Columbus Boulevard. I'm20 making that statement based on the21 website that indicates that more than $122 million is owed in taxes for that site23 for the year 2009.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You are25 155 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 correct, and to the best of my knowledge,2 they have come to a potential agreement3 on a settlement. I don't know what the4 dollar figure is, but that will have some5 impact on what may happen at 8th and6 Market as well.7
Well, I submit that8 without paying the full amount of tax9 that's due, they should be given no10 consideration by this body.11 Number two, the Philadelphia12 Gaming Advisory Task Force, which13 extensively studied the proper siting for14 casinos or slots parlors, issued a15 400-page report, and there are two main16 conclusions in that report that militate17 against having a casino or slots parlor18 at 8th and Market. On , the19 report states that placement of a slots20 parlor in a downtown location poses a21 significant challenge. On to 75,22 it states that there should be no slots23 parlor on a site that's smaller than 3.424 acres. The site that's now being25 156 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 proposed is not 3.4 acres. So this2 proposed legislation that would locate3 the slots parlor at 8th and Market is4 contrary to the extensive study done by5 the Philadelphia Gaming Advisory Task6 Force.7 I agree with what was said by8 the previous panel about the need for a9 process here, if Your Honors agree to10 pass the legislation that would give the11 City Planning Commission the final12 approval of any Plan of Development.13 However, Mr. DiCicco, you've said that --14 a few minutes ago you mention that you15 want to be part of the process. Well, I16 submit that if City Council abdicates its17 responsibility in approving the Plan of18 Development, you will not be part of the19 process. This will be a process that20 will be solely decided by the21 Philadelphia Planning Commission.22 And, finally, I want to23 reiterate something that has not been24 said here but was said extensively on25 157 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 November 1st when the Rules Committee met2 on the previous two ordinances that3 proposed the location of the slots parlor4 at 10th and Market, and, that is, that5 the Philadelphia Chinatown community and6 the Asian population in particular has a7 greater susceptibility to gambling8 addiction, and that is a key reason why9 location of any slots parlor near10 Philadelphia Chinatown would have a more11 detrimental impact upon that community12 than anywhere else in Philadelphia.13 For those reasons, I suggest14 that Your Honors not favorably report15 these two bills out of Committee.16 Thank you.17
Next18 witness. Please identify yourself for19 the record.20
My name is Ursula21 Reed. 24 When I first moved back to25 158 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Philadelphia -- I grew up here -- I2 worked for the Pennsylvania Historical3 Museum Commission on the development of4 the Penns Landing Museum and Cultural5 Center, which is now known as the6 Independence Seaport Museum. I worked7 there for a couple years and then went to8 work for the Rouse Company. 12 I then worked for almost three years as13 Assistant General Manager of the Gallery14 at Market East, along with the gentleman15 who is currently the General Manager16 there for Mr. Ruben, Larry Howard. 21 But I'm here today because I'm22 also the Vice-President of the23 Fairmount -- of the Washington-Rochambeau24 Revolutionary Route, which is a national25 159 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 historic trail that was just designated2 and signed by the President on the 31st3 of March, and I'm happy to say that we4 now have a national historic trail that5 comes right through Philadelphia, down6 Market Street from 2nd to the Schuylkill7 and continues on down. It's a 685-mile8 national historic trail that commemorates9 the American and French alliance in the10 American Revolution. I gave a copy of11 the Press Release announcing that to each12 of you, and on April 11th, this article13 appeared in the Inquirer. 18 I'm also here to read into the19 record a letter from the National Parks20 and Conservation Association. 18 A non-partisan, non-profit,19 NPCA's mission is to protect and enhance20 America's national park system for21 current and future generations. 7 Independence National Historic Park is a8 place where visitors can walk in the9 steps of our founding fathers and learn10 about how our nation became the place it11 is today. 13 While economic arguments for14 opening casinos in Philadelphia may seem15 compelling in these difficult economic16 times, Independence National Historic17 Park is already an economic engine for18 the city and state. With approximately 419 million visitors annually, Independence20 National Historic Park generates more21 than 139 million in spending and supports22 more than 2,000 jobs. 3 A casino could be built4 anywhere, but there is only one5 Independence Hall. 14
Thank17 you, Madam President.18 Very quickly. Ms. Reed, I19 guess by your statement that again taking20 Councilman DiCicco's question, given the21 two options, you would prefer the casino22 at Delaware and Reed. Is that a fair23 statement?24
No, it's not. I'm25 163 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 not going to answer that question. I'm2 not going to be forced into an answer. I3 believe that there should be no casinos4 in this historic city.5
We don't6 have that choice. We have a choice to7 make and we have to make it.8 Okay. Thank you.9
Any10 other questions of this witness?11 (No response.)12
Thank13 you very much.14 Are you going to testify, sir?15
Yes.16 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:17 Please identify yourself for the record.18
Good afternoon. My19 name is Joshua Cohen and I'm an attorney20 with Greenberg Traurig. We represent21 Gramercy Capital Corporation, the owner22 of the upper floors at the 801 Market23 Street site that sits directly above the24 floors that PREIT proposes to lease to25 164 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Foxwood Philadelphia for gaming use.2 I would like to read the3 following prepared statement in the4 record for today's hearing.5 "Contrary to what has been6 widely reported in the news media, PREIT7 does not own the 801 Market Street8 building outright. In fact, the building9 is a multi-unit business condominium in10 which Gramercy Capital Corporation owns11 Floors 7 through 13, representing nearly12 40 percent interest in the building.13 Gramercy's tenants include the Government14 Services Administration, Citizens Bank,15 Community Behavioral Health Systems and16 several other significant commercial17 tenants.18 Gramercy opposes Bill 090295 as19 currently presented, because we believe20 that a rezoning of the 801 Market Street21 site in the manner proposed is not in our22 best interest or in the best interest of23 our tenants.24 We are currently in discussions25 165 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 with PREIT to address our concerns and2 believe that we may be able to do so if3 the Council's vote on this matter was4 delayed for a brief period of time.5 Thank you very much for your6 consideration of our testimony."7
Thank8 you.9 Any questions or comments of10 this witness?11 (No response.)12
Thank13 you all very much.14 Do we have anyone else to15 testify?16 (No response.)17
Would18 anyone like to testify?19 (No response.)20
This21 concludes the public hearing. We will22 now go into our public meeting, and the23 Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco24 regarding Bill No. 090294.25 166 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,2 Madam Chair. I move that Bill No. 0902943 be reported out of this Committee with a4 favorable recommendation and that the5 rules of Council be suspended so as to6 permit first reading at our next session7 of City Council.8 (Duly seconded.)9
It10 has been moved and seconded that Bill No.11 090294 be reported out of Committee with12 a favorable recommendation; further, that13 the rules of Council be suspended so as14 to permit first reading at our next15 session of Council.16 All in favor will indicate by17 saying aye.18 (Aye.)19
The23 ayes have it and the motion carries.24 Again, the Chair recognizes25 167 5/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090294 & 0902951 Councilman DiCicco regarding Bill No.2 090295.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,4 Madam Chair. I move that Bill No. 0902955 be held and recessed to the May 13th6 hearing.7
Bill11 No. 090295 is being held today and will12 be rescheduled for a public hearing on13 May 13th.14 This concludes our public15 meeting.16 Thank you all very much.17 (Committee on Rules adjourned18 at 4:00 p.m.)19 - - -20 21 22 23 24 25 168 1 CERTIFICATE2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings, evidence and objections are4 contained fully and accurately in the5 stenographic notes taken by me upon the6 foregoing matter on May 7, 2009, and that this7 is a true and correct transcript of same.8 9 10 11 12 13 ______________________________14 MICHELE L. MURPHY15 RPR-Notary Public16 17 18 (The foregoing certification of this19 transcript does not apply to any reproduction20 of the same by any means, unless under the21 direct control and/or supervision of the22 certifying reporter.)23 24 25