So, again, your position is that as long as OHCD stays within the 15 percent cap, whatever else happens with all the other entities -- PHDC, RDA, the Commerce Department, PIDC, the Finance Department, the Law 218 6/9/99 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - Bill 990160 Department, and City Planning -- their administrative costs as paid by CDBG budget have no limit.
Except for the HUD cap, which is percent. So that's a real limitation. 7
Well, does the HUD 8 cap only apply to OHCD or does it apply to the 9 entire administrative budget? 10
It applies to the entire 11 administrative portion of the program. 12
Okay. So your 13 position here today is, on the City's side, as 14 long as OHCD itself -- and no other agencies 15 combined in -- stays within the 15 percent cap, 16 that's fine. And as long as collectively, all of 17 you stay within the 20 percent cap for HUD 18 purposes, that's okay too. 19
But the 15 percent cap only applies only to OHCD and none of the other half a dozen agencies that receive CDBG funds for their administrative costs.
That's my understanding of that section of the Code. 219 6/9/99 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - Bill 990160 Secondly, there was some brief discussion of the issue of the HUD category to which some of these activities will be subject, that were mentioned in the testimony -- the counseling and the employment and training as well as the site improvements, and the category of Public Facilities was mentioned. The category of Public Facilities is -- only relates to publicly-owned properties, such as recreation centers and other publicly-owned facilities. And so funding for curb, sidewalks, and trees would not fall into the Public Facilities category but would fall under the Public Services category, which is subject to a 15 percent cap, which is the category that funds housing counseling services as well as job- readiness programs, such as Youth Build, housing counseling, and employment and training services. So there would be a potential --
What do you have in the Public Services category that has anything to do with infrastructure?
My understanding is that any infrastructure, any of the curbs and sidewalks 220 6/9/99 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - Bill 990160 and trees would be subject to that percent -- would be a part of the calculation of that 15 percent cap. 5
That wasn't the 6 question I was asking you. The question I'm 7 asking you is, can you cite for me in the 8 regulations under the Public Services category, 9 small letter e, any reference made to any of these 10 particular items? 11
Well, I have them 14 right here. Do you want to -- I mean, what is 15 says is: "Public Service. Provision of public services, including labor, supplies and materials, including, but not limited to, those concerned with employment, crime prevention, child care, health, drug abuse education, fair housing counseling, energy conservation, welfare (but excluding the provision of income payments identified under Section 5720207B.4, homeowner down payment assistance or recreational needs. . ." Now, I mean there's more. But out of 221 6/9/99 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - Bill 990160 all of that, tell me what you heard that's related any public infrastructure improvements.
I'm afraid it's part of the "more" to which you made reference, but the --
Well, fine, I'll read the rest. "To be eligible for CDBG assistance, a public service must be either a new service or a quantifiable increase in the level of an existing service above that which has been provided by or on behalf of the unit of general local government through funds raised by the unit or received by the unit from the state in which it is located in the 12 calendar months before the submission of the action plan."
The only similar use of Community Development Block Grant funds that is occurring now, to which I referred through the PNHS Program, is funded through that Public Services category.
And that is the category that we have used and that we would expect to use in terms of the HUD regulations. 222 6/9/99 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - Bill 990160
So, I mean, that's your interpretation, or it's -- how you currently do it is through that item.
But that does not mean that that item is strictly or solely for that particular use. It is the way that you are utilizing that area and providing dollars to go through an organization that does that work.
But for our discussion here as it relates to the regulations, there is nothing in there that says anything about public infrastructure, sidewalks, or any revitalization efforts. It's the policy of the Housing Office to fund a particular organization through that particular category to do that work.
It does not mean, though, that that is the only way that it can be done. And then we could go into the Interim Assistance section that specifically talks about, again, those items. So, I mean, I think I respected your 223 6/9/99 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - Bill 990160 opinion; I think that you should respect what the facts are. You cannot sit here and say that the providing of these services could or would only be done through the Public Services category since the Public Services category, by the guidelines, has nothing to do with curb, sidewalks, public infrastructure, or anything else.
Well, it clearly does have something to do with those activities.
It has something to do with it in the context of how you funded it in the past.
The fact is that they could not be funded under the Public Facilities category to which reference was made earlier, and I just wanted to point that out.
Well, I believe that that's actually debatable, but there's still another section that we can utilize. Okay, thank you.
Finally, we requested last week at the Finance Committee hearing on the Year Plan a suspension of the rules, which I 25 appreciate was granted by the Finance Committee in 224 6/9/99 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - Bill 990160 the expectation that the ordinance would be passed tomorrow. And I hope that it will be possible and that it will resolve whatever issues are outstanding here because we need every single week that we can possibly get in terms of implementing quickly during this calendar year and getting the funding and spending it as quickly as we can. Thank you.
Okay. Have you -- with regard to the issue that you raised on the cap, you mentioned that that's what you've been told. Have you sought any particular advice about that?
No, but I will check with the legal department or with the Law Department.
Okay. And you're going to get back with information on a detailed explanation of the budgeted items in the administrative costs area as well as the program delivery.
What those actual costs are, who the people are, what their jobs 225 6/9/99 COMMERCE/EC. DEV. - Bill 990160 are, and how they can connected to those particular services.
Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions for Mr. Kromer. (No further questions.)
Okay, thank you. I think based on conversations with some members of the committee, I have one other amendment that I would like to move. It responds to an issue that's been raised on a couple occasions by some of the people who have testified. It has to do with future years and any impact of these activities on subsequent consolidated plans. What I would like to do is move into the public meeting, deal with that particular amendment solely so that the bill is in a fully amended version and is clear what it will now say when it's printed by the chief clerk. If there's no objection, I'd like to move into a public meeting for the purpose of 226 6/9/99 COMMERCE, EC. DEV. Public Meeting dealing with one particular amendment - - -
We are now in a public meeting. There was an issue raised earlier about a previous amendment that has already been voted on, which starts with the sentence in number 5, on . And it's Paragraph (5). The sentence currently reads: "OHCD shall not decrease any funding in the Year Consolidated Plan." 12 At that point, I would propose to 13 insert the language "or any subsequent year plan" 14 and then continue the sentence, "for any proposed 15 housing program, housing development project, 16 service provider, training program, or any other 17 nongovernmental grant recipient in order to fund 18 any community revitalization and infrastructure 19 renewal project or activity." 20 I would is ask for a motion on that 21 particular amendment. 22
Mr. Chairman, I move 23 the adoption of the amendment as read by you. 24 (Duly seconded.) 25
It has been 227 6/9/99 COMMERCE, EC. DEV. Public Meeting properly moved and seconded. All in favor, say aye. Any opposed, say nay. The ayes have it and the bill has been amended. At this point in time, now having a fully amended bill, the bill will be held in committee. There is obviously a great amount of conversation and discussion that will continue to take place about this particular proposal, but we now at least have a fully amended bill that at some level addresses many of the concerns raised by Administration people or citizens in community-based organizations. If there is no further business for the committee, the Committee on Commerce and Economic Development stands in recess to the call of the Chair. Thank you very much. (Adjourned at 2:50 p.m.) - - - 228 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Wednesday, June 9, 1999, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BILL NO. 990160 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter