civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - July 18, 2023

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Jul 18, 20231h 34m

That's right. That's fine.

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Okay.

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Good morning, Mr. Montanis.

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Good morning.

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Can you please describe for us the rules and the current procedure for creating a legally authorized curb cut in Philadelphia?

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So during the zoning hearing, plans are submitted to the streets department.

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We review their curb cuts, upon which we make comments, recommendations, and approvals.

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and then they get submitted back to the zoning hall.

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Yes, what rules and procedures do you look at,

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do you implement in order to evaluate curb cuts?

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So we look at turning templates, we look at lane use,

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we try to figure out what they're gonna be using,

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if there's trucks coming in, trucks coming out,

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how it's gonna flow into and onto the street,

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and off the street. Basically, everything is dictated by AASHTO guidance as the way

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vehicular movements are handled in the public right away.

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So you just described to us what happens when there's a new curb cut that's proposed.

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Can you describe any rules or procedures that the streets department uses to legalize a curb cut that was not authorized at the time that it was created?

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Are you asking what's the rule to legalize any legal curb cut?

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Yes.

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I'm sorry, is that the question you're asking?

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Yeah, that is the question. Yes. I'm asking you what, how, how does the department proceed when, when an application comes in to legalize a curb cut that was not originally authorized by the streets department?

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So we, we take a look at the lane use and we kind of treat it in as a new applicant, the new curb cut applicant, and we go through that process.

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So any legal curve cut, we just basically, and if a developer's coming in to ask for one, we treat it as a new curve cut application.

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We do realize, we sometimes go back into history, we do realize partials are sold, people don't follow, you know, it may not have been a curve cut installed by the current developer, but it was a curve cut installed in the past.

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installed by the current developer, but it was a CurveCut installed in the past.

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But we do go through the process just to make sure that everything will work per our standards.

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And I do apologize, I keep getting bad internet, so on my side.

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Oh, okay, sorry.

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The procedures and the rules that you just described for us,

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Were those in place at the time of the 2017 zoning hearing on this project?

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Those procedures have been in place since 1996 when I started the city and probably prior to that, but I can only speak for 1996 and forward.

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Okay.

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I want us to now look at, I'm going to share my screen.

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we're going to look at the original zoning plan that was submitted

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by the property owner, Mr. Bilby, in 2017.

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Okay.

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I'm going to try and make this a little bigger for you.

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You can see on the top of this plan, Pastoria Street is, this is the boundary of the Bill B property on Pastoria Street.

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So I wanted to start here. Can you identify any existing curb cuts that appear on this plan?

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Sure. The plan is highlighting two existing curb cuts, one 14 foot 6 inches and one 29 feet.

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okay and then to the left of those um do you see another curb cut that is um that is identified on

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the plan there is an identified uh actually there's one all the way to the left uh a new

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curve cut there's one that and i couldn't see thank you 18 is that 18 or 13 feet

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curve cut

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and then you have a 15 foot

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6 inch curve cut

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okay and these are all

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along the boundary

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with Pastorea Street is that correct

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I did not

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cannot see the name of the

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street but I'm

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yes

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it looks like it's coming

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Pastorea Street yes

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okay

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now this

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property

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also has a boundary on green street and on top of hawkins street are you aware of any existing

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curb cuts along green street i will have to take a look at the map or the plan to refresh my memory

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well this is the i do not see one there where you're showing okay this is their property on

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green street and then uh below here this is top of hawken there's top of hawken street yeah there

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is an existing curb cut in the plans okay it does not have the dimensions

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um mr montanas did you bring any records with you today to document whether or not each of

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those curb cuts that you identified were properly approved by the streets department

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Matt? Objection. It's beyond the scope. We're here to talk about one specific curb cut on

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Pastorius. I don't know what the West Top of Hockett curb cut has to do with this whatsoever.

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The subpoena requested Mr. Montenis to bring with him all documents related to

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the identification and the existence of curb cuts on the property. And

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to me that's a direct that's a direct um directly related to the subpoena in in response to the

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subpoena the original subpoena the most recent subpoenas were for his appearance the original

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subpoena that requested the documents mr masters is referring to those have all been provided to

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mr masters and the board so mr masters would have all of the documents uh related to this property

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that were in the records of the streets department.

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Those were provided several months ago at this point.

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So if he has them, he can just show Mr. Montanez and ask his questions.

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So if he has them, he can just show Mr.

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Montana's and ask his questions.

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I have the documents that Mr. Montanez did provide, Mr. Reuter, but none of them addressed the none of them concerned whether any of these curb cuts were legally approved at any point prior to 2017 by the streets department.

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Then they don't exist.

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OK, you have you have what we have.

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that's that's all I can say so Mr. Montana is is it your testimony that the streets department

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does not keep records of whether a curb cut is existing along around along this block of

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pastoria street no the streets department keeps records of everything what we provided was

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the submission for the development of this for this development that came to the city

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So, for your testimony today, can you testify that you know for a fact that each of these existing curb cuts along Pastoria Street were approved at some point by the streets department?

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I do not know for a fact we would have to go into our archive records to look.

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Okay.

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Okay. I'm going to show you, I'm going to highlight here on this zoning map, this is from 2017, what is described as an existing driveway, and would you agree that it appears to originate not on Pastoria Street,

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but somewhat

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it's hard to know how many feet that is

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but it appears to be

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10-15 feet in

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from Pastoria Street

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and it seems to

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traverse the

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property

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and then

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provide for an ingress and egress

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on West Top of Hawken

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would you agree with that?

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It appears to be that way

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Okay

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Was there in the, and according to this plan in 2017, was there an existing curb cut that continued from this driveway onto Pastoria Street?

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you? From the plans, I can't tell of the existing driveway connected to the existing curb cut

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because of the new improvements were shown in that area. Okay.

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Does the streets department have a form or some kind of a procedure for the moving of a curb cut

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from one location to another at the same property?

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If you're going to relocate your existing curb cut,

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it would be like a new application.

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You need to submit to the City of Philadelphia for permits.

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Those permits will be reviewed,

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upon which that permit should show that you're,

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in essence, closing or putting the curb back

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at your existing curb cut and creating a new one

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at the location you're proposing.

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Okay.

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I want to step back and, for a moment, ask you some questions about curb cuts in general.

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Is there any provision in the Philadelphia Code, we're talking zoning streets, any part of the Philadelphia Code, that requires every residential property in the city to have curb cuts?

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No.

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Okay.

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Is there any provision of the Philadelphia Code, zoning streets, whatever, that requires this particular property to have at least one curb cut on Pastoria Street?

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I am not aware of such a code.

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Okay.

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Is there any provision of the Philadelphia Code, zoning streets, whatever, which requires this property to have a driveway?

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I'm not aware of such a code.

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Did the streets department at any time order the property owner to create a new curb cut at the end of the existing driveway along Pastoria Street?

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Streets department did ask the developer to realign the driveway, to move the curb cut to better realign with the existing driveway.

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okay so you if you testify that you asked the developer to do that was that a requirement

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that the streets department placed on whether you would approve the plans or not that is correct

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That is correct.

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okay so it was more of a

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Okay.

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So it was more of a commandment or a requirement?

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Would that be fair to say?

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It would facilitate the ingress and egress of vehicles into the property by creating another angle for the vehicles to move.

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You just testified, though, that there was no requirement that there be a driveway or a curb cut.

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Is that correct?

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That is correct.

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So would it be fair to say that the streets department told the property owner that if you are going to have a driveway and a curb cut, this is where the curb cut has to be?

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The streets department reviews the plans, and in the plans, the existing curb cuts were shown.

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So what we asked was to relocate the existing curve cut to better align with the existing driveway.

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So in essence, remove the existing curve cut and create a new curve cut to align with the driveway.

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Okay.

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But we've already seen, Mr. Montanez, that this driveway also has an ingress and egress off of Topolhocken, correct?

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Correct.

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So, again, if the developer had given you a plan that only showed ingress and egress off of Topahawken, would the streets department have been able to approve that?

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The streets department requires a plan for the whole site, and all boundaries must be shown.

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Right. So let's say all the boundaries were shown, but there was no curb cut at this driveway on Pastorius.

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the only curb cut would be on Top of Hawken. Would that meet the streets department requirements?

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Then yes, it would. The streets department would review the proposed driveways that the developer was providing.

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So you were, I guess, would it be fair to say you were somewhat agnostic about whether there should be a curb cut on Pastoria Street

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since the since the property owner the applicant seemed to want one you basically instructed the

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property owner how they had to configure a curb cut to be to be acceptable to the streets department

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is that correct the streets department asked the property owner to relocate the existing curb cut

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on pastor to better align with the driveway as we felt it would provide better flow to the property

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Okay.

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Did you have, did the streets department have any concerns about access for emergency vehicles on this part of the property?

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Is that something that you look at when you are approving ingress and egress options for a development?

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As part of our templates that we try, we do take a look to see how emergency vehicles such as fire trucks, ambulance and all that will be accessing property, especially when it comes to them turning around corners and things like that.

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Okay. So, isn't it true that if there were to be an existing curb cut along Pastorius, as the department recommended, that if it was limited to emergency repair and delivery vehicles, that would address the safety issues that the department identified?

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Objection.

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Trying to testify as to a proviso that it was not in effect.

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And there's nothing having to do with emergency vehicles only.

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That's been stricken by the Commonwealth Court.

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And we've gone over this numerous times.

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I'm asking a question.

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I'm not asking about a proviso.

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So that's a proper question for the witness.

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I'll let him answer the question.

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the street department takes a look at ingress and egress of

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vehicles that includes emergency vehicles into all

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the developer properties so

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if there's a curve cut that the developer designates for emergency

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purposes only that would suffice that requirement also

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do you recall if the street department also

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had a concern about delivery vehicles and repair vehicles

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that were parking on Pastoreas and blocking traffic

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and that there was a preference for those vehicles

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to be allowed to enter the property

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to eliminate traffic blocking along Pastoreas?

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There was a request from the community

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that the vehicles or the workers

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please park within the property

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as they felt they were blocking Pastoreas Street.

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And the streets department listened to them.

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And the streets department listened to them.

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Thank you.

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So, again, if there was to be a limitation put on by this board that only emergency repair and delivery vehicles would have access via the curb cut on Pastorius, would that address all of the concerns that the streets department had?

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Objection.

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He can answer that question.

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The streets department looks at the ingress and egress of a property.

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If this becomes an emergency only driveway, I do not, it would be agnostic to it.

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It does not affect us at all because there's still ingress and egress on the top of Hocken.

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Okay. I'm going to look at a different plan now.

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This plan is dated

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October 3rd, 2021 from Polson and Associates, and it's labeled Streets Right-of-Way Plan.

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Oops, we're going to keep it on number one.

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Mr. Montanis, have you seen this plan before?

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