COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC HEALTH & PUBLIC SAFETY - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Thursday, June 10, 1999 9:33 a.m. - - - BILL 990289 - Amending Chapter 10-800 of The Philadelphia Code entitled "Safety" by adding a new section providing that any person (including, but not limited to, any registered or licensed firearms manufacture or dealer) who transports, sells, exposes for sale, posses for sale, assigns, or transfers any firearm shall be liable in tort. . . PRESENT: COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ, Chair COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED-MILLER COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 PUBLIC HEALTH & HUMAN SVCS. I N D E X Morris Klein. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 3 6/10/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - 990289 P R O C E E D I N G S
Good morning. This is the Committee on Public Safety on Bill 990289. I believe that we're having a quorum -- Councilman Kenney, Councilman DiCicco, Councilwoman Miller, Councilman Cohen, and Councilman Rizzo all being present. We can now proceed with Bill No. 10 990289. I believe we have one more person to testify. Is there somebody here to testify so we can close off -- Mr. Morris Klein? (Morris Klein comes forward.)
Okay. Well, I just got a copy of the bill this morning, so I only recently reviewed it, but some issues are still rather ambiguous on this in terms of the language and the exceptions, but it assumes that there can be, within four years, such a thing as a "smart gun" that will work properly. And I see police of 4 6/10/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - 990289 exempted from the carrying of the smart gun, and rightly so, because it's not even a technology that exists and is not really going to exist for quite a number of years due to the difficulties of actually having something that will function reliably in a life-and-death situation. And there are so many problems with the technology. The one manufacturer, Colt, who actually is developing the smart gun using the radio transponder technology where you have to be within a certain short range to be able to have the firearm function does you not preclude the possibility of, say, an armed robber and a struggling police officer taking that gun away from him and shooting the officer with his own at very close range, execution style. Because the radio signal will travel when the gun is placed right against the officer's body. So the smart gun is nothing to prevent officers being killed by their own weapon, which is, I think, one of the reasons to create this feature. And then the idea that you can force unproven technology or even the technology at this point because it really exists into the real 5 6/10/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - 990289 world, we should have learned that this sort of thing, forcing the technology before its time, can be extremely dangerous. When the auto industry pushed the airbags into automobiles, it took about five, six years before they even admitted that the airbags as designed were killing women and children, and numerous women and children had to die before they modified the designs, and they're only doing that now, and they still don't have them in widespread use. So, you know, the potential for a nightmarish situation of people, you know suffering from the unintended results of a technology that does not even exist at this point, I mean the difficulties are myriad. You know, there is a lot of information on the Internet about this, and basically, it just talks about failure after failure to create this smart gun. If you put electronics in the gun, in the rough-and-tumble use that a police officer would give it you, drop the gun, it's been known to fail, and then the officer doesn't have that gun when he needs it. The other problem is that supposing the officer loses control of his gun against an armed 6 6/10/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - 990289 felony, his partner would not be able to use his gun if the technology is that personalized.
Well, we understand that the technology is not totally completed. That's why we're giving the implementation period to be four years from today on the passing of this bill. So we understand that there are some technical glitches. The technology is there and needs to be perfected, but we're giving enough time and leeway for that to happen. Do you have anything else to add?
Well, actually, you know, they're using the biometrics to allow students into their dorms at the University of Penn, and this is not shrunk into size of a firearm grip, and that fails and life and death is not involved.
We realize that there are glitches in technology. Do you have anything else to add?
I understand. All right, I will try to finish it up. 7 6/10/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - 990289 Well, there are so many issues about this legislation. I believe it's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. If you're trying to -- I really don't fully understand what this is trying to accomplish. If it's trying to prevent small children from dying from firearms, the numbers have steadily shrunk year after year after year to the point where, I think, the most repeat figures are maybe 200 a year compared to more serious dangers to our children from auto accidents and drowning, yet I see no one to seeking to legislate on bathtubs, bicycles, and automobiles to prevent children from dying -- that's a more significant problem when you're talking about thousands and thousands of children. To say that, Well, if we can save one life, isn't it worth it? But if you push the technology, an unproven technology, before it's actually even in the testing stages, then you may end up costing more than the one life that you may save. And -- all right, I'll finish up at this point. There are many other issues that could be brought up but I understand that you're 8 6/10/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - 990289 pressed for time. Thank you so much for hearing me.
Thank you. This concludes the hearing side of the hearing on Bill No. 990289. And we --
Mr. Chairman, have the -- has the amendment been formally offered?
Has the amendment been formally offered, the amendment?
Okay. Thank you. I just have a question on the portion of the amendment when it's offered. - - - 9 6/10/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - Pub. Meeting
Okay. All right, now we're having a quorum of Councilman Kenney, Councilman DiCicco, Councilwoman Miller, Councilman Rizzo, Councilman Cohen, and I saw Rick Mariano around here somewhere.
All right. The Mayor has offered some amendments, and they were distributed yesterday afternoon. The amendments are -- that you have in front of you are not in the form that we usually do it here in Council. The bold-type letter words in brackets are the words that are being substituted or added to the legislation. And in essence, what we have is adding some phrases to the title and some phrases to the "whereas." And in "strict liability," adding a year so that the period that the bill becomes effective four years after the date of this section becomes law, the strict liability part comes into play. I recognize Councilman Cohen to offer the amendments.
Mr. Chairman. I move that the following amendments be made to Bill 10 6/10/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - Pub. Meeting No. 990289: In the title of the ordinance, on line 4, in the middle line, after the word "who," there should be -- the amendment is to do the word "manufacturers." "Before manufacturer comma" to go in after the word "who" so the language will read: ". . . who manufacturers, transports, sells," etc. Then in the first "whereas," immediately after it says "whereas the City of Philadelphia," add after the word "Philadelphia" this phrase: ". . . recognizing that the technology to personalize firearms, which was first developed for law enforcement and correctional officers, will be commercially feasible in the future." That is to be inserted prior to the word "wishes." Then the next amendment.
No, no, the word "commercial." "Wishes to promote. . ."
"Wishes to promote the safe" -- and add the word "commercial" after the word "safe" --
"The safe commercial 11 6/10/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - Pub. Meeting manufacture of firearms," right. Next page.
In definition (.1), in line 5, after the word "sold," remove the period and add "or an immediate family member of that individual who is the legal age to purchase a firearm." Then in (.2), the word "medical" is being used to replace a word that has --
-- a misspelling at the end of line 2 in that paragraph. The word is "medial." That word should be "medical," so delete the word "medial" and we'll add the word "medical" in its place. In the main paragraph (2), at the bottom of entitled "Strict Liability," the word "three" should be deleted, and it will be replaced by the word "four." And further -- (Councilman DiCicco comments off-mike.)
Yes, "four," 12 6/10/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - Pub. Meeting F-O-U-R. And further in that paragraph, following the word "who" on the first line on 3, there would be added the word "manufacturers," to precede the rest of the phrase "transports, sells, expose for sale," etc. That completes the amendments. So I'll offer the amendments as read.
The only question I had, you cleared up because of the way in which it was presented.
I thought those terms were being deleted, but they're being added.
Hearing none, I call 13 6/10/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - Pub. Meeting for a vote on the amendment. All those in favor, say aye? Those opposed? (None opposed.)
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 990289, as amended, be reported out with a favorable recommendation and with a request for a suspension of the rules to permit first reading at the Council meeting to take place later this morning. (Duly seconded.)
I call for a vote on the bill as amended. All those in favor, say aye. Those opposed? Hearing none, the bill is approved and will be reported to the next session of City Council. Bill No. 990289 has been approved with a favorable recommendation and a request for a suspension of the rules. This concludes the meeting of the Public Safety Committee. Thank you very much. 14 6/10/99 PUBLIC SAFETY - Pub. Meeting And we begin now the Law & Government meeting. (Adjourned at 9:44 a.m.) - - - 15 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Thursday, June 10, 1999, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC HEALTH & PUBLIC SAFETY BILL NO. 990289 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter