civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - January 25, 2023

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Jan 25, 20234h 58m

where you expect to place dumpsters for the bakery.

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Is that right?

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Yes, sir.

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Okay.

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And it looks like there are currently parking spaces right there, right?

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now it's already in designated space for dumpsters in there yes yes there's dumpsters

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for I think for the laundromat but I would imagine you need additional dumpsters for the extra use

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well I'm going to need another extra dumpster will be a high volume dumpster and I think that

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will be enough for us for the type of operation we're going to understood but you need to have

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the uh what's required under the code so so i think you'll repeat you i mean my understanding

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is that you would need to have a dumpster for this new proposed use and i think you'll need

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to have it on site unless you get approval to have it someplace else and i believe it would

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have to be outside so my question is if it's going to be on site where can you put it and

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and avoid taking up more spots when there's already potentially a parking issue with that site.

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If that's the case, we have it on the rear part of the building.

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If you see on the building, if you can zoom in, we can put it on the rear of the building also.

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All right, let me ask this.

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How many customers do you have today, approximately?

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Around 100 customers, from 5 in the morning to 9 in the morning.

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You think you have around 100 customers from what time to what time?

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9 in the morning, 3 in the afternoon.

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From 5 in the morning to 3 in the afternoon, 100 customers.

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Okay.

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And you have 10 spots?

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The far I know, yes.

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That's enough space for that 10 spots, yes.

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Okay, and there's a potential that some of those spots are removed for the dumpster that might have to go outside, if there's a dumpster that has to go outside?

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No, I don't think we're going to be able to use those.

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We can use the rear part of the building if we request a permission for the owner of the laundry, who is the owner of the building, because we have plenty of space on the rear part of the building for that.

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If you check the blueprints we have, we have an offset space over there to put dumps in there.

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I see that.

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I see that.

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My concern is about whether there will be enough parking if you continue to take up spaces that would otherwise be for customers.

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And just so you understand, Mr. Marin, because I'm not sure when you got on the line, I represent the neighbors who run the grocery store, and they're concerned about parking overflowing into their site.

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okay so that's that's their concern um and i think that it's reasonable to think that if you

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have a hundred by your testimony a hundred customers in a day in only 10 spots and you're

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not open the entire day that you may have a bit of an issue in them especially in the mornings

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with too many customers and they'll have to park on other sites okay what time the seven brothers

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and start operation.

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Do you know that?

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Say that one more time.

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One time the Seven Brothers

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supermarket start.

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It's actually one of the hours

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for the supermarket.

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I'm not sure of the hours.

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I think they might open at 6.

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No, no, no, no.

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No, they don't open at 6.

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I'm here in this neighborhood

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before the supermarket

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because I know the owners

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of the supermarket.

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They start operating around 8 in the morning.

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That's the hours, 8 to 9 in the evening.

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Okay.

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okay but i'm listen i don't think that's relevant i think the point is that uh we need to make sure

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Okay, but listen, I don't think that's relevant.

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I think the point is that we need to...

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that there's enough capacity on your property we want to make sure that there are enough parking

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spaces so but what i can tell it sounds like the board will need to make sure that there are enough

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parking spaces i'm pretty sure that we have plenty of spaces in there all right i have no further

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questions okay thank you thank you mr ball do you have anything else yeah i just wanted to ask just

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couple of clarifying questions um you testified uh mr barrett that there's about 100 customers a

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day is that retail or commercial customers i'm sorry hard i get it you're phased fading out

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yeah certainly um was that retail customers or 100 customers that you have approximately 100 of

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a day now they call customers who go in pick up and out and do you have any idea do most of them

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drive or most of them walk? Most of them drive. Most of them drive? Yes, in the morning hours.

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Okay. And do customers come in and leave or are these customers staying for, you know, an hour

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each? I don't think we're going to have any tables inside for that reason. Why is the reason we're

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not going to have tables in that because we have the high school in front of us okay thank you

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you know what's going on with high school the only high school so we to avoid all that people

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sitting in there and staying in there we have no sitting at all you eat pick it up and go okay so

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if there's a hundred people a day you're saying that they're going to be in and out in a few

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minutes it's not going to be um they're not going to be lingering so so so if people are in two

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minutes you can have um i'll it's it would take a lot for those 10 spots to overfill

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questions from the board uh yes mr chairman i think that we should hold it until we get

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better information yeah i think what we'll do is let's get everybody's questions on the table

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first time so if anybody else on the board has a question please let me know

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no mr chair right and then questions from from the virtual audience

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here we have Dylan Mahoney with his hand up okay Mr Mahoney please unmute yourself and wait for the

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Chair. Mr. Mahoney you've already been sworn please just state your name. Good afternoon Mr.

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Chairman to the board Dylan Mahoney from the opposite Councilmember Anthony Phillips.

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So obviously we're potentially waiting on an amended refusal but with respect to the

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application that's currently before the board the councilman has reviewed the neighbor's letter of

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support through the RCO and the councilman has no objections. He's in favor of it right?

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no objection yes sir okay okay thank you um hillary should we go to uh get a read from the

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planning commission too yeah yes mr chair we can we can do everything i'll just double check it

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and i just want to make sure this was okay with mr bowling as well um we'll just double check

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with um l and i and make sure there wasn't a missing review of the parking requirements okay

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thank you ron yeah thank you ron bednar city planning a city uh adopted comprehensive plan

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recommend the change in the zoning at this location from medium industrial i2 to industrial

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commercial mixed use the proposed uses would all be allowed under the proposed zoning therefore

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we recommend that requested variances be granted thank you um we'll hold the vote till next wednesday

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and by that time we'll have information additional information from uh from l and i am i right

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hillary yes that is correct i will i will advise council um for for both parties in advance of

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what information i received from l and i and then we can vote this at 2 p.m next week thank you

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everyone. Thank you very much. Good. Number six, MI 2022, 004-949-4800 to O.T. Ogle Street.

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Rachel Pritzker, Brandon Saverin are the attorneys. Let's see here.

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Hold on one minute.

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I'll be right with you one minute and then I lost my screen here

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Oh, man, I lost my screen here.

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We have applicant letter of support from Ridge Civic Association.

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Good evening, Mr. Chair.

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You've already been sworn to state your name, please.

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Sure.

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Brandon Saverin.

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and and could you identify your client in relationship to the property yes my client

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is the owner of the property his name is Sanjeev Jain all right and our vice chair has just a few

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questions for you sir good afternoon Mr. Saverin do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal

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and stipulate to his accuracy yes I do Mr. Vice Chair have you emailed all the exhibits that are

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required to proceed with this case five days in advance to this hearing? Yes, I did. Thank you.

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Please proceed and share your screen. Thank you.

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Okay, so the property I'm here to discuss has a dashed address of 4800-02 Ogle Street.

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It is one legal parcel that comprises both this residential building that my cursor is on, that's sort of a sandstone color, and this lower commercial structure next to it.

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These are attached, but not internally connected.

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And we are proposing essentially to demolish the commercial part of the structure.

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This used to be what we in our fine city would call a steak shop many decades ago.

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We want to demolish that and then subdivide these properties so that they can be two parcels.

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The residential portion, the residential building is currently a duplex, and we would propose

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to build a new duplex, a second structure on the ground that would be available once

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the former steak shop building is demolished. So I will, oh, pardon me one second, my computer,

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my computer froze for a second. So this is the notice of refusal, members of the board.

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Before I get into this, I'll just say that this refusal notes here that we are proposing

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three dwelling units for what would be the new building, but because we have reduced our proposal

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to two units in the new building and also relocated an exterior staircase, we would ask you to approve

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our plans with a proviso for one page of revised plans this evening. So I already sort of talked

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about the scope of the proposal, which is in a capitalized text up here. The refusals it drew

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are as follows. One used refusal because having even two dwelling units, as we are now proposing

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in the new building, is prohibited because we're in RSA 5. And then we drew four-dimensional

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refusals. So those refusals actually pertain to both the existing building and the new,

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what would be the new building and in each case they are for the lot area and the open area and

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I'm going to walk through those in a second but what you'll see this is a survey when you propose

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a subdivision and these by the way according to my historical research did used to be two locks

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they were consolidated at some point so we'd really be returning to the original setup here

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When you propose a subdivision, you have to have an engineer prepare a survey.

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I'm going to mostly focus on the zoning plan since this doesn't show the structures, it just shows the land.

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But as you can see here, in addition to the rear yards that both buildings will have, there's a three foot wide alley behind both buildings that will remain.

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And here is the zoning plan.

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So this zoning plan essentially can help me illustrate the cause of the dimensional refusals.

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So in terms of minimum lot area, we are in the fourth district overlay, and that overlay requires, particularly for Roxborough, a very large lot area, 1440 square feet.

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Now, both of these lots, I believe, would be in the 800s, but that is roughly, go back and get the exact size, 892 for one, 894 for the other.

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It's actually closer to 900 square feet per lot. That is completely in line with the rest of the block.

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And that makes sense, given that these used to be two parcels. So we're basically returning these.

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And that makes sense, given that these used to be two parcels.

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So we're basically returning these to their original form and to the form that matches the block.

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There are very few parcels in the area, and I don't believe any on our block, that are even close to 1440 square feet.

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So having to comply with that requirement is a hardship.

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It would prevent us from subdividing a lot, and we'd be left with a very bizarre situation where we'd sort of be like attaching a new building to an existing building

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to live on one parcel. That's ill-advised for both permitting reasons and financial reasons.

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These should be two separate properties. And then in terms of minimum lot area, what you can see is

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even the new building, which has a slightly smaller rear yard, would have a nine-foot deep

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rear yard, which is noted here. And that's, if I was able to show you the homes down the line

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on the rest of the block although only the neighboring building is shown that's consistent

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more or less with like an average rear yard on this block so again we're matching the form of

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the block um you know to to provide a more open area would require a bigger rear yard than is

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typically found on this block and would require a very short building and that's exacerbated

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because as you can see that the lot sort of tapers in the back but what we're proposing is sufficient

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for, you know, quality of living and for safety, and it matches the block. So those are the

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refusals. Let me just note that I have our architect on each of the two proposed dwelling

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units in the new building would be approximately 1450 square feet. These are very nice sized units.

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Each would be three bedrooms, three baths. There's no change to the existing two units in the

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existing neighboring buildings. So I'm not going to talk about the interior of those because we're

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not touching it. But due to the fact that we're running late, I will just say we are very proud

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of the sort of exterior that we're proposing here, the layout. We're contemplating some very

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high quality work related to water retention, which you can sort of see in the rear yard and

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this sidewalk swale, but I will hold off on walking through that in greater detail.

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And if you want to hear more about any of those features, since they're not subject

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of refusal, I'll just allow you to tell me that you'd like me to bring the architect

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on and I'll do so.

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Brandon, I think we're fine.

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Okay.

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Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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I appreciate that.

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The last thing I'm going to mention is just the sort of hardship, particularly with related

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to the use refusal for the duplex. So very quickly, the existing commercial building,

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it's dilapidated. It's been vacant, we believe, since a chiropractic practice left the space

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in 2007 or 2008. I have some photos in our exhibit packet that demonstrate that.

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It's been used for nothing other than occasionally unpermitted storage. It's generally been

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completely vacant. So to comply with the code, we couldn't even reinstate a new commercial use here

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because our commercial permit has lapsed. So that would mean even if we tried to put a new

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commercial tenant in there, we need a variance. I have strong reason to believe that the RCO does

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not want a commercial tenant in there and would potentially not support that variance. So given

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that the commercial part of the building, the commercial building is in poor physical condition,

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it lacks upper floors, it lacks essential utility systems like central air, we believe it has to be

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demolished by any reasonable standard. And if you're going to demolish the structure, you got

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to build something new. We believe that given the context here, this is a totally residential area

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in the heart of Roxborough, needs to be residential, given that we have to pay for

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demolishing that building, the special site work that's required when you're building on a slope,

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the market is not going to sustain building a single family home. And the only way to even

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attempt that would be to sell it for probably in excess of a million dollars. Extremely expensive

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house. We felt that the RCO didn't like that concept, or at least many people at the RCO

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meeting. It's not what we're going to do. And it's extremely risky financially. If it doesn't

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pan out, which we don't believe it would very well, it would result in a huge loss to my client.

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So that's why we're pursuing a duplex on that, you know, what will be the vacant piece of the

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property after we demolish the commercial structure. And what was the vote of the RCO?

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18 to 2 off the top of my head.

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And if you want, I can verify that in a way.

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That's fine.

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okay um that that is my presentation again have the owner yes um so his name is sanjeev jane

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