yeah good
30 30 time why there's nothing here
what you said
Oh, okay. Yep. Yep. I got it.
Thank you.
we're ready right good morning my name is bill bergman and i will be chairing this meeting of
the philadelphia zoning board of adjustment with me was our vice chair tenetta graham president
mr chairman our board member charlotte l gaston president mr chairman our board member michael
johns president mr chairman board member ty win who should be coming through here any minimum a
moment, and our board member, Ryan McAdams. President, Mr. Chairman. Also, here is our
board attorney, Hillary Emerson, our executive director, Ian Haggerty, and our board administrator,
Lakeisha Dandy. Recording of this hearing will be posted on the ZBA website. By participating,
you consent to be recorded. This is an in-person meeting with remote capabilities. Whether remote
or in person, if you're called to speak, you must state and spell your name and then wait to be
sworn in. Once you've been sworn in, please state your name each time before beginning your
testimony. Any person can enter an appearance. You can identify the case property address
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so we can account for you.
So let's look at our schedule for this morning.
Number seven.
Right with you.
Number 7, MI 2025-005-235, 200 South 2nd Street, that case should continue to March 25th at 2 p.m.
This is not the one we want to take comments on, right? We're okay with this one?
I mean, Ms. Prisker does have her hand raised, although I don't know that the appellant is here in this case,
because she was traveling and I did let the parties know they didn't need to be present for
this matter. Okay. All right. So this case is continued to March 25th at 2 p.m.
number eight mi 2025 006 999 175 west oxford street this case is continued until 5 19 26 at 9 30 a.m
number 10 mi 2026 000 272 118 hillcrest avenue this case will be continued to 519 20
hillcrest avenue this case will be continued to 5 19 26 at 9 30 a.m
and then number 11 um 69 30 ardly street david orphanetes is the attorney mr orphanetes please
come on the city is represented by i think leonard who's going to represent the city in this um yes
he's he's he's online he's on his he's on his shirt okay mr reuter and also um mr knockamson
this is a request for a continuance um we'll start with mr orphanetes mr orphanetes
they're being promoted to panelists thank you
mr knockamson why don't you while we're waiting for money state your name is fellow for this
sonographer alan knockamson a-l-a-n last name is knockamson n-o-c-h-u-m-s-o-n do you swear or
affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do okay let's get we'll get the
hold of mr orphanetes i'm here mr orphanetes could you please state your name and spell for
the sonographer certainly david orphanetes last name is spelled o-r-p-h-a-n-i-d-e-s do you swear
a firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do mr reuter
he's on his way up he's on his way up and i don't think he he i we didn't know that there
were going to be comments requested on this one previously so uh are there going to be
they were going to be taking comments on the continuance relative to the continuance there's
going to be comments okay all right it's okay we'll just we can we'll we'll wait a few minutes
okay leonard's one is you can sit there you don't think about it i mean leonard's on his way up i
think oh mr chair i just wanted to to note for the record on um 700 south second street um was
that that continuance request was that marked must be heard i did not see it was not let me
see you second i i thought that was yeah i thought that was supposed to be marked must be heard okay
Okay, let me see here.
yeah i'm sorry so seven seven oh two south second street which is mi 2025 zero zero five
two three five that case is continued in march 25th at 2 p.m and mark must be heard thank you
mr chair there he is here's the man
we try to get people to take your place they said they can't do it impossible
there's only one there's only one lynn mr reuter could you please state your name is
dealt with the stenographer. Thank you, Leonard F. Reuter, R-E-U-T-E-R.
Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I do. Mr. Orfanides, I understand you want to make a motion here?
Yes. I'd like to request a continuance of today's proceeding. One of my clients,
Christina Christou, who is actually the one who herself filed the initial appeal,
had booked a trip out of the country, had to be booked almost a year in advance. It was booked
last April, April 20th, played for book July 15th. And unfortunately, she was unable to reschedule
and what she's away for doesn't allow her to call in remotely through Zoom. I did provide some
additional dates. In my original letter for request, I accidentally put in dates later in
April, which is pretty far out. But I've provided some dates later this month that my clients and I
are available. And then if those don't work, we have dates in April as well. But I can't proceed.
I think her testimony is critical here. I believe that the Property Owner Developers Council is
going to question when she first became aware of this project and the zoning permit in particular.
and so her testimony her husband is here but obviously and he can testify as to
um when um when he learned of it and when he believes she learned of it but obviously
when he learned of it and when he believes she learned of it. But obviously, I believe,
i believe given the
given the procedural history of this about regarding who's at the appellant, I think it's
pretty important that she be available. And I apologize for this. When we scheduled this date
after the last hearing, I was immediately, well, soon thereafter, was advised of this conflict,
was trying to see if there was any chance to have it rescheduled. And unfortunately,
just again, because there's such a long lead time, she was unable to do so.
Mr. Knuckles and I think you have comments.
Yeah, Mr. Chair, this is the second instance where the appellant has not showed up to the hearing.
If the board remembers the first time she had her husband in her stead attempting to represent her as a layperson.
The second hearing, which had to be rescheduled because the board wanted additional time to hear this matter regarding actual constructive notice,
Mr. Orchfinites was there along with his client and we scheduled the hearing for today's date.
I don't understand why then we scheduled the hearing for a date that she knew she was going
to be on vacation. And, you know, we only, the reason why I didn't comment previously,
I was out of the office late last week. So I'm catching up a little bit, but you know,
this late hour to then ask for another continuous request where she can't appear for something that
she's brought which we believe is a frivolous petition is rather concerning so obviously we're
going to reluctantly consent because her testimony is critical um we would ask that this is a must be
heard but before the hearing we did issue a subpoena we asked for a subpoena to be issued
to her as well as to change i think our attorney wants to yeah i i will the the board has reviewed
that request i will be sending a response to all parties this week okay so but before we have the
hearing i would like the opportunity assuming the the subpoena is issued to have you know the the
documents you know sent to us um which is a third party too change.org is you know an organization
where uh there was a petition circulated amongst the community objecting to this pro this by right
project so one of the things we want to see is if the uh appellant participated by signing the
petition and when um and i do think correspondence that she had with other parties including the
council member and other rcos are relevant to these proceedings thank you thank you um mr reuter
uh thank you uh again i apologize for being a little bit late i was under the impression that
continuance had been granted um but the city doesn't have uh any position on whether or not
to grant the continuance i mean it's a little bit inconvenient but uh other than being a few minutes
late i'm just downstairs so okay all right that's that's that's fine thank you um we're going to
continue this one more time and we're this is going to be mark must be heard and we're going to
continue to 4-7-26 at 9.30 a.m. Alan, do you think, I mean, I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, but
given the, I guess there's going to be a decision issued on the subpoena, I don't doubt that I can
provide a response by 4-7, but with change.org involved in that, if the subpoena is issued to
them, Alan, do you think that, I mean, should we leave that 4-7 and see how you make out with that
if that subpoena is issued yeah i i mean hillary i i mean it hasn't happened i mean that's another
reason for it continues because you did request that and that hasn't even been um resolved yet
so i mean what give me an idea what data you're thinking about i might have a few dates here we
can go to tell me what date you're thinking about and we'll try to agree well so typically when you
have a subpoena assuming one is issued i would think a minimum of 20 days more likely 30 days
for the third party organization to respond will they respond that's another question okay but all
right I think we can keep the date as it is we're going to leave the date as it is okay okay and I
do I do have another long proceeding that morning just if you remember that's the one on Ripka
Street so uh there will be two that morning let me just make sure my April 7th and just
for clarification again this is just continuance just for the question of the
right the lake right right I mean given given the time frame that uh Mr. Nockamson may need
and given that other proceeding that is pretty complicated for the seventh is there any way we
can push it to the 14th or so what we're going to do is we'll take a look and see what we have and
we'll get back yeah okay I'm just concerned about right now it's the seventh okay understood all
right thank you thank you thank you all for coming we appreciate it are there any other requests for
Are there any other requests for continuances?
continuances.
No hands at the time, Chair.
Thank you.
We're going to start with number nine, MI 2025, 007195, 6134 Rear to 46 Wayne Avenue.
Rachel Pritzker is the attorney.
John Wissarik.
Am I saying it right?
Wissarik?
That's good. It's also here from the city.
Number nine.
rachel yep i'm here oh good good morning could you please state your name and spell for the
stenographer yes rachel r-a-c-h-a-e-l pritzker p-r-i-t-z-k-e-r you swear or affirm to tell
the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes um mr zorek could you please state
your name is spelled for the stenographer uh john was zorek w-i-e-c-z-o-r-e-k on behalf of the city
Great. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Rachel, could you identify your client and relationship to the property?
Yes. My client is Mosaic Development Partners, Mathis Holdings LLC, which is the owner of the property.
Okay. So this is an appeal against L and I. So Rachel, why don't you start?
Yeah. Given we have a timing constraint with the representative from SEPTA, I just wanted to allow him to speak first.
i know it's a little bit out of order but he has to leave so i can just allow him to
provide his testimony on the record there's um his name is michael kendall um mr kendall
can that person please raise their hand
they're being promoted to panels thank you
so just to give sort of like a brief very brief and i'll go back through this overview this is
an appeal for from a determination from l and i from a previously issued zoning permit for 6134
r-46 wayne avenue um and basically um there was you know well-documented delays from septa which
has an easement over the property and whose coordination is required before the development
of this parcel can proceed obviously i think uh the board is probably well aware of the various
delays and issues that septa has faced over the last number of years um and so just i'll get into
little bit more detail but given we have um mr kendall here who is the assistant treasurer for
the southeastern pennsylvania transportation authority just wanted to uh share my screen
and allow him to um put his testimony on the record before he uh has to leave and we greatly
appreciate him being here today all right mr kendall good morning can you hear me good morning
yeah we can could you please state your name it's spelled for the sonographer
michael kendall m-i-c-h-a-e-l-k-e-n-d-a-l-l you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole
truth nothing but the truth i do all right if possible could you turn on your video
i'm i'm sorry mr chair i am actually home with a stomach bug today and i prefer to remain off
camera we're fine rachel please proceed uh so sorry i didn't realize you weren't feeling well
so um i just wanted you to just briefly um you know their letter your letter is on the screen
but if you just kind of want to highlight um you know your your statement and your testimony
um and sort of just acknowledge some of the delays that happened as a result you know of the easement
here um good morning happy to enter this letter into the record uh septa remains committed to
working with mosaic development partners to advance this development we think that it represents
a attractive opportunity to create value near one of the stations um it's a multi-layered process
but it is collaborative and it requires cooperation from both mosaic and septa
I know that we have established a great relationship working on this together, and I am in the expectation that we will remain committed to working together with Mosaic to execute this agreement in as timely manner as possible.
i know that we have established a great relationship working on this together and i
Beyond that, I think I really just want to make sure that the letter is able to speak for itself.
And if there are any questions regarding the contents of the letter, I'm happy to answer them.
Rachel, do you have any more questions from them?
No, I think just, you know, just, Michael, just from your perspective, is there anything that was, you know, mosaics, that Mosaic hasn't done to continue to moving forward?
I think the whole point we're trying to make here today that this is sort of outside of their ability to move forward, given the easement and, as you mentioned, the necessary coordination.
So would you agree with that statement that this is really not being held up as a result of Mosaic's delays or their inability to cooperate, but more so as just the need to work together on sort of a complicated easement and obviously all the procedural and prerequisites that are required, in addition to obviously you guys have other priorities than just this site?
yeah rachel i don't want to speculate on um you know mosaic's process i i can't emphasize what's
in the letter and just again reiterate that we are committed to actively coordinating with mosaic to
to bring this development to a timely emergence as timely as possible thank you we appreciate
that michael john do you have any questions of course no questions for mr kendall okay um rachel
the next witness or yeah no i'm just going to go through sort of the timeline of events in our case
here and then and michael thank you very much we appreciate you getting on when you did feel well
thank you very much um so just to kind of dial it back and i appreciate sort of going out of order i
wanted to make sure that he was able to speak um this is the original zoning permit that was issued
back in 2021 uh this zoning permit was issued um after approval by the zoning board of adjustment
The only variance here was minimal. It was for heritage trees. Everything else on the site is by right.
There's just a lot of, if I can show you this tab, can you see this on my screen?
This is the site here. So it's extremely wooded and covered in a ton of trees.
so we had a long-winded arborist report to document all the heritage trees and then have
sort of very comprehensive planning around removal and replacement of trees and then as mentioned
sort of this it's sort of a flag lot so it has this skinny piece here and then it has all this
land down here and then here's the Topohock and Wayne I think it's the Chestnut Hill West line
which is here and septa has an easement all throughout here so we have to work with them
to extend the utilities from the site given there's no utilities on our parcel and so
given that and the shared driveway requires a significant amount of collaboration with septa
which is sort of why this hasn't been moved forward more more quickly and i think as i
mentioned as we all know there's been delays with septa personnel changes um you know financial
issues that we're all aware of. So that's been, and we literally cannot develop a site without
the extension of the utilities. So that's sort of where we've been. We, like I said, everything
else on this permit is by right, except the heritage trees. It was really de minimis
request that this board granted. Just to go through sort of like the timeline of this,
which was in the appeal, just so you kind of have a sense of the work that we've put in here
back in 2021 we got the zoning permit and then you know obviously as mentioned the location
within SEPTA back we started working with SEPTA back in 2022 following the zoning approval the
owners began coordination with their legal engineering departments to secure a required
utility easement beneath SEPTA's private drive which is again a prerequisite to the construction
here um back in 22 and 23 there was additional coordination with our attorneys civil engineers
with the easement legal descriptions exhibits and as you can imagine trying to get an easement
and documentation with septa is not light work back in 2023 they implemented implemented a new
internal real estate easement approval process in the middle of us doing this and assigned new
personnel who hadn't worked on this before.
So again, had to do a re-review, another review of this same easement, new engineering coordination
and appraisal, updated legal negotiations and documentation.
And then it was finally approved more than a year after this revised review.
And then again, two and a half years after the initial coordination commenced back in
December 2022.
We then had to submit early in 2025 the easement materials for the mandatory Federal Transit
administration review and approval which is required for scepter related property interests
And upon final easement review, there was additional language that was included and an additional SEPTA and FTA review. At that point, the zoning permit was becoming expired. It ended in November 2023. It was previously granted the one-year exception.
and upon final easement review there was additional language that was included
But given all of this work and the needing to have SEPTA finalized and review the plans, we couldn't submit for a building permit without this approval.
Whenever you submit your property rights or what you're trying to do includes another parcel, you also need their approval and participation.
So, again, obviously, we didn't have enough time between 2021 and getting this permit and 2025 with all these requirements to pull a building permit and have it issued in that time.
um again i i think you can see that put in the record but it's all raw land we need to extend
the utilities which is basically sort of an uncommon uh practice generally in the city it's
typically not you don't usually need to coordinate this heavily with um septa or another agency in
that way aside from you know our usual streets and water uh pico or pgw um so this required
a lot more. And again, there was some changes and delays on SEPTA's side with some of the funding
and their requirements, implementing a whole new department, new personnel, and sort of the middle
of all of this. And again, this is the critical path needed to get a building permit. As mentioned
by Mark Kendall, we've worked consistently with them. This is a transit-oriented development that
sought very little relief from the city. They've been working with SEPTA for years to try to get
this done and you know they are committed to working with us to continue this process and
again it's required in order to move this project forward i don't know that the zoning plans are
that relevant for this but just uh just to try to give sort of a update or i guess a refresher
of this project um as mentioned a lot of removal of and replacement of trees 78 units on the site
with 24 parking spaces across two parcels that are combined for zoning reasons with the unity
of use. Again, it's an interesting sort of flag lot with, again, all the easements and
shared rights with SEPTA. Just from a legal perspective, I think just worth noting that
the board has jurisdiction pursuant to Philadelphia Zoning Code 1430315 to hear appeals from the
determination of L&I and to grant such relief as necessary, including variances to implement
the purposes of the code. We obviously obtained valid zoning permits for the development of Wayne
Avenue. The property is subject to this easement, requiring coordination approvals before construction.
We acted diligently and continuously in pursuing the development, and the progress has been
materially delayed due to SEPTA's inability to advance the required work within the easement
area. The delays are part of a broader system-wide issues affecting SEPTA, including funding
restraints, personnel shortages, regional project backlogs, and as a result, the applicant has been
unable to proceed within standard permit timelines, and L&I has subsequently determined that the
permits have expired and they can't grant additional extensions. We believe that the L&I
determination should be reversed because the alleged expiration results from governmental
delays, not applicant inaction. The expiration here is not a product of an action. It's a result
of delay by government whose participation is mandatory for development. Pennsylvania courts
have made clear that zoning enforcement should not operate to penalize applicants for delays
outside their control and that the board has authority to grant relief through appeal and
variance under Philadelphia zoning code 1430315. The board may reverse L&I determinations and grant
variance relief where strict application of the code creates unnecessary hardship. So the board
is not limited to use or dimensional regulations and so the board may grant a variance from the
terms of the zoning code where the unnecessary hardship is established in that in this instance
obviously through governmental delays and things outside of the applicant's control. Additionally
it's worth noting section 91 sorry 910.2 of the Pennsylvania Municipality's planning code
where courts have recognized that procedural or timing related provisions may be relaxed
where strict enforcement would be inequitable due to governmental delays. There's a number of cases
Petrovsky or zoning hearing board where rigid application of the zoning rules are not required
where an applicant has acted in good faith and is prevented from proceeding due to circumstances
beyond their control. Here, the permit is not tied to the merits of the project, but to timing
constraints that were rendered impossible to meet due to SEPTA's required involvement and
documented delays. So under these circumstances, we believe the board has both the authority and
equitable basis to grant relief. I have Maria Sauerbeer and Leslie Smallwood-Lewis on to adopt
um smallwood lewis on to adopt my testimony and then we're happy to answer you know any questions
my testimony and then we're happy
uh that you have all right why don't why don't you bring your client on sure
could that person please raise their hand
all righty maria sir bear is being promoted to panelists thank you
morning good morning could you please state your name and spell before the sonographer
maria sour beer m-a-r-i-a sour beer s-o-u-r-b-e-e-r do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the
whole truth nothing but the truth yes council maria have you heard my testimony today do you
believe it to be true and accurate and do you adopt it as your own uh yes i do is there anything
you want to add um to the testimony today yeah i just you know i want to
reiterate that we have a very healthy and positive relationship with septa and have worked with them
tirelessly for the last few years to get this accomplished they have a multi-layered process
engineering operations real estate legal uh their committee their board and then subsequently fta
all need to review and approve there have been um you know staff changes procedural changes
that have um delayed the process and it hasn't helped that the uh you know federal issues had
made FTA's approval lengthy and time-consuming and a little, you know, they are understaffed and
that process is quite slow. So I am very optimistic that we are marching towards the
path of getting this project to happen, but the amount of time has just been, you know,
not what we anticipated. If you were to guess, if we were able to get relief from the board,
do you have any sense of timing that we might need for something like this?
I, you know, I hesitate to say that, say a time, but I would think that, you know, nine months would be enough. We've completed our traffic study. We do need to go in and have the appraisals redone because FTA will require an updated appraisal. So that will take a little bit of time and then just SEPTA's internal process and getting that FTA approval, you know, those things all take time, you know, 12 months, I don't know, nine to 12 months.
OK. OK. Do we want to bring Leslie on or. No. Wait till they're done. Do you have anything else? No, not at this time. All right. John. No questions for any of the appellants. OK. Rachel, your case is done. Yeah, I think I would just mention.
or go ahead i'm sorry sorry i just would mention from a timing perspective i think um you know if
it's nine months to get through septa but then they need to submit for building permits which
could take you know like another six months i think a year year and a half uh extension would
would get us would get us there would be my thought okay thank you john you want to present
your case yeah just very briefly the city's position is is straightforward uh pursuant to
philadelphia code section 14 303 10d the city's position is that l and i's hands are kind of tied
here we've given them all the extensions that we can which is up to four years as ms pritzker
showed i believe the permit was issued november 16 2021 the extension that she is appealing here
that that was extended the permit to november 16th 2025 that's the four-year maximum that l and i
can extend the permit for but even there this permit was issued by variants issued by the
board and so it's actually the board's discretion whether to extend this permit further okay um
did you rachel you want to respond to any of that yeah we we've had conversations with the city on
this so we're aware that they can't do anything further and that's why we're in front of the
zoning board of adjustment i don't think any of us disagree that the zoning board ultimately has
that ability and authority and so that's why we're here in front of the zoning board and
and asking for relief today all right does anybody any of the board members have any questions
All right. So, Hilary, we're going to continue this. How about two weeks from tomorrow for me?
I'm sorry. We have two hands currently raised from the virtual audience.
No, no. We don't take testimony in L&I cases.
Okay. All right.
All right, um, so just give me a 2nd chair, because, um, so April, so 2 weeks to be April 1st, but we do not have hearings that day. So the next Wednesday would be, um, April 8th, right? So we're going to continue to April 8th.
So, just give me a second.
At 930 AM, we will vote and we'll consider it in the executive session prior. Okay. Thank you for coming in. We appreciate it. Thank you board members. Thank you. And thanks for letting us go early. We appreciate that.
okay number
number five
number five is uh mi 2025 002 443 537 sanger street this is a resumptive hearing and we do have an
interpreter
that's good morning how are you
good morning interpreter good morning sir all right could you please
can you turn your video on if possible i am trying but it was disabled for some
reason okay all right um please state your name and spelled for the stenographer well it says it
i cannot start it because it was disabled by the host um but if you let me i can turn on my camera
my name is josue arriaga it's j-o-s-u-e arriaga is a-r-r-e-a-g-a do you swear or affirm that you
will interpret accurately completely and partially from english to spanish and from spanish to english
to the best of your ability i do could you please call anna slisa figurio a n-y-e-l-i-c-a
figurio is f-i-g-u-e-r-o-a
estamos llamando la sala la señora analiza figueroa
muy buenos días o angélica perdón como esta señora figueroa muy bien muy buenos días mi
My name is Josue and I'm going to be your interpreter.
Everything we're going to talk about is confidential,
and to guarantee the quality of the call,
we're going to talk in full sentences and short sentences.
Go ahead, Mr. Chair.
Could you please have her state her name
and spell for the stenographer?
Angelica Marini Figueroa Núñez.
A-N-Y-E...
Bueno, A-N-Y-E-L-I-C-A.
F-I-H-U-E-R-O-A, Angelica Figueroa.
I think it's Angelica, it's A-N-Y-E-L-I-C-A, Figueroa is F-I-G-U-E-R-O-A.
So, could you please ask her, do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
levante la mano derecha afirma decir la verdad solamente la verdad y nada más que la verdad
sí i do okay so this is a resumptive hearing but just to be clear where we are this application
is for a takeout restaurant and for a convenience store
Serving hot food, retail sales of food, beverages, and groceries.
sirviendo comida caliente, ventas de comida, bebidas y víveres.
With incidental use of serving hot foods on the first floor of the existing structure.
Con el uso incidente de servir comidas calientes en el primer piso de la estructura existente.
So this is a resumptive hearing. And what we need is all the updates that she can tell us about what she's done since the last hearing. And then there'll be questions from the board and public testimony and planning commission. All right. So what we would want is we know that there's been an amended refusal. We've got proof of tax compliance and reviewed the updated proof of posting.
So just let her tell us everything that she's done since the last meeting and then what will go from there, okay?
Ok, esta es una audiencia de reanudación, ¿verdad? Y lo que nosotros necesitamos actualmente son todas las actualizaciones que usted nos pueda dar acerca de lo que se ha hecho desde la última audiencia.
Y entonces van a haber ciertas preguntas de la Junta y testimonio público y también el comisionado de planeación, ¿sí? Entonces, lo que nosotros quisiéramos es que, si es que hay un rechazo de enmienda, ¿verdad?, y usted tiene las pruebas del cumplimiento de los impuestos, ya nosotros hemos revisado, ¿verdad?, las pruebas adicionales que se han posteado. Entonces, quiero que por favor nos diga todo lo que se ha hecho desde esa última reunión y de ahí partimos.
Desde la última reunión solamente teníamos que ver el plano, era para ver el plano, y también para que LNI hablara acerca de que pusieran, en vez de decir take up, en vez de decir restaurant and grocery,
so since the last meeting we were only the only thing left to see was the plans you know and
also I was waiting for the LNI to speak about like because that they wanted me to amend that
instead of saying like restaurant grocery store it has to say takeout so LNI already
sent the refusal but it was because of the amended refusal basically that we were in standby.
or is that right just amended refusal i'm sorry
um ma'am do you have any um any additional plans or photos since the last hearing to show the board
desde la última audiencia acá para que le muestre a la junta es y
no we have a show that is the new plans
and determine los nuevos planos por favor
did she freeze oh
i think is she there
it's still here but uh her audio no i know i noticed it froze up there a minute
call her for us again please
I'm not sure.
Let's give her a minute.
So, ah, disculpen que fue que se me,
sin querer que se me quitó el cofre, perdón.
all right so we're looking for plans from her okay
she did say my apologies because my internet went out for a little bit so that's okay
I try to put it, I try to put it, I try to put it, I try to put it in the window.
de buscar la quina guinda
miss figaro it might be helpful if you unshared and then selected the document
that you wish to share and or go to the document you want to share and then hit share from there
I have to go out of the page and I can't.
You're sharing your screen so you should be able to click that share button again to stop sharing.
Dígame, ¿qué le dijo?
pantalla del documento exactamente para que no tenga que estar entrando y saliendo
y aquí
pero busque el documento y cuando vaya a compartir todavía no cuando vaya a
compartir la pantalla elige la pestaña de gmail que está abierta en donde está
abierto el plano para que pueda proyectar
if you're in the zoom you can hit share and then do you pick a particular window
or screen and that and just pick the one that is the plans you want to show
si ya cuando usted está en el zoom usted le da compartir y ahí elige la ventana particular
que le estaba mencionando
I have a problem with this.
Thank you.
does she see the green button at the bottom do we ask that maybe i'll put some
does she see green button green button at the bottom of the computer
there we go here we go here we go
maybe not
um okay this is the plan
yep this is the plan
por aquí aquí está el el primer nivel
it's the first floor
it's the kitchen area
that's the emergency exit door and that's where the hood is going to be out front
that's where it says about the hood
and this is what they have been asked the other one
the hood base is all the way to the techo
la la la the ventana si vas a reras afuera
but hasta el techo o directamente hacia afuera la parte de atrás no hacia hacia afuera por
okay so yeah it's gonna be like not on the roof roof but it's gonna be like up top outside in the
back because it has to be like outside okay is there any major changes she made to the
to the plan since the last time could she tell us
the only thing that we change
what's the hood okay all right questions from the board
so is this the eat-in or is it it's just take out right correct
it's only take out it's only take out but their chair is at the counter is there um
it's only take out but their chairs at the counter is there um um so there'll be no
other than the three chairs that you have at the counter there are no other chairs
okay any other questions
yes do we do we know what kind of food we're talking about here
tipo de comida de qué tipo de comida estamos hablando disculpe de comida sandwich y cosas
así como media tradicional como jamás o menos como es hispano pero también colocando los
okay so we're gonna have like like traditional hard traditional food but we're also gonna have
like the the regular american sandwiches that people like to eat you know like bagels and like
grilled cheeses and croissants and stuff like that okay thank you questions for our attorney
not at this time mr there's your comments from the virtual audience
no hands at this time chair any commission
amy boyd of the planning commission amybo id you swear affirm to tell the truth the whole truth
nothing but the truth i do please proceed the comprehensive plan recommends no change
to the rsa 5 residential single family zoning at this location this oh sorry
Perfecto, entonces Amy Boyd de la Comisión de Planeación, verdad, le están haciendo
el juramento. Ella dice que el plan comprensivo, el plan completo, no recomienda ningún cambio
a la RSA a la 5, la zona familiar de una residencia sencilla en esta ubicación.
The city rezoned this neighborhood in 1975 in a council-supported map change.
Sí, la ciudad reubicó este barrio en 1975 y el consejo apoyó el cambio del mapa.
This building appears to have had ground floor commercial space since at least 1965.
Y este edificio al parecer tenía bases para un espacio comercial por lo menos desde 1965.
The City Planning Commission recommends that the board grant their requested variances for multiple principal uses, takeout restaurant and retail sales of food, beverages and groceries.
So, are you done? Good. So, MI 2025
zero zero two four four three
okay entonces el mi dos mil veinticinco cero cero dos cuatro cuatro tres five thirty seven
sanger street en la quinientos treinta y siete de sanger street i vote yes
with proviso
her amended refusal
dated January 13th,
Michael Johns.
I'm sorry.
Are you saying that it's so yes?
well i wasn't finished i just wanted to make sure you got it michael johns my vote is yes with
proviso okay my name is michael johns and my vote is yes with proviso
okay tie a win my vote is yes with proviso
hi i win mi voto ese sí comproviso
okay all right all right uh thank you you have your your votes congratulations
all right thank you all right all right all right um we're going to hear the next will be
all right all right um we're going to hear the next will be one two and three together
so number one is mi 2024 007 402 number two is and that's at 1409 north 17th
And number two is MI 2024-007-403-1441-North 17th.
And then number three, MI 2024-007-404-1624 Jefferson Street.
David Guest is the attorney, and we have support and letters of support from Councilmember Young,
State Representative Malcolm Kenyatta
State Senator Sharif Street
U.S. Representative Dwight Evans
and Beach Companies
And Mr. Chair, I just want to note for the interpreter
that we're all set for today
Thank you very much for your assistance
Oh, I'm sorry, yeah, thank you
I got caught up with her waving to me
Goodbye
No worries, sir
Thank you so much for using our service
You had a very happy customer there
Thank you
Have a wonderful rest of the day
Thank you so much for using our services
Okay, all right
mr guest good morning members of the board and these three i recuse that's right michael johns
has recused himself um mr guest could you please state your name is spelled for this
stenographer yes good morning my name is david guest d-a-v-i-d last name is g-e-s-t right do
you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do could you
identify your client the relationship to this property yes my name is david guest i'm here
with square side law and consulting on behalf of pathways housing wellness corporation
they're the equitable owner planning to develop an affordable housing project as we'll explain today
we will be hearing all three of these cases but we will vote separately on all three cases
and our vice chair has a few questions for you sure good morning have you um emailed documents
and zibits for the cases within five days yes and do you waive the no the refusals and stipulate to
their accuracy yes just to note that there was an updated refusal and there are proviso plans
as i'll get into okay thank you you can share your screen and proceed with your case thanks
very much i will share my screen right now um hopefully you can see it um we can share thank
Thank you. So, as I said, I'm David Guest with Squareside Law and Consulting on behalf
of Pathways, the Housing and Wellness Corporation. I'm here with Christine Simriglia, who's
president and CEO of Pathways. She's available to give a very brief overview of this project.
I'm also here with Dennis Kurek, who's the project engineer with Ruggiero Plant Land
Design, as well as Fawn Wong, who is the project architect with KMA Studio. As mentioned, this
is part of a multi-phase development with three consolidated hearings today. So I just wanted to
point out for everyone, this is the overall project site. You can see it's phase one and
phase two. The properties in question today, I'm going to put my cursor on them, are up at this
corner, 1441 to 43 North 17th Street, 1624 to 26 Jefferson Street, as well as 1409 to 11 North
17th street so the rest is here for context and has already been approved and we're just here for
those three properties this is actually a continuation of a hearing that was originally
scheduled for last year there was a delay associated with documentation of site control
as these were publicly owned properties but that's now been resolved as mentioned we have
submitted all of our required exhibits. They've been updated since our last appearance, sorry,
since the time of the original hearing as documented the exhibit packet. There's the
zoning application refusal, relevant photographs, evidence of neighbor notice, posting, meeting with
the coordinating RCO, which is Beach Community Services. I'm very happy to report that we've
received unanimous support from the neighbors for this affordable housing development and the
variances in question are very minor parking variances that we'll describe briefly for you
this morning um and we've also received support from a number of uh different officials as
mentioned including uh council member young's office um so if it's all right with the board
i was going to turn it over to uh miss uh simariglia to just give sort of a brief overview
of pathways efforts in this regard and then i'll take over uh to just briefly go over the variances
if that's okay sure who do you want to bring on uh christine simariglia right christine
They're promoted to panelists, sir.
thank you
Thank you.
sorry i'm not we see her yeah sorry christine christine i apologize christine i don't know if
can hear me i don't am i the only one i can't hear her is that well i don't that person that
person has been promoted yeah i see i see her and she's unmuted but unfortunately christine
i'm not hearing you oh here we go it says connecting to audio christine she's i can see
hurt there we go hopefully now okay and now you're on mute christine if you can unmute yourself
hopefully now it's gonna work all right how about yay okay great i started talking like i tend to
okay um christine could you please state your name it's spelled for the sonographer
Yes, it's Christine Simiriglia, Christine, C-H-R-I-S-T-I-N-E, Simiriglia, S-I-M-I-R-I-G-L-I-A.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Counsel?
Yes, Ms. Simiriglia, if you could just please give an overview of what Pathways to Housing engages in and just the nature of this project.
so pathways to housing was formed to develop affordable and deeply affordable housing in
philadelphia trying to replace what the city desperately needs and is losing very quickly
and that's our affordable housing stock we want to target people who are low and very low income
in philadelphia and also help the neighbors to be able to stay in their quickly their neighborhood
that's quickly becoming unaffordable for a lot. We're using an info model because we want
to give the neighborhood back its block and back its community block by block as opposed
to putting a big building in the middle of a set of two or three-story row homes. So
part of how we're doing that is we're filling in empty lots, empty blighted lots. We're not going
going above whatever that row of homes is. So in this case, they're three story. We're
not going to build a tall tower in the middle of that. We're trying to match the look of
the neighborhood as much as possible. This neighborhood, Sharswood is filled with a beautiful
Italian architecture. We're not going to be able to match that totally, but we are going
to try and not stand out like a sore thumb. We're going to try and do the brickwork. We're
so that it blends in with the rest of the block as much as possible.
We've been working with the neighbors.
We have had a number of community meetings.
It's actually been really nice because they've been a great exchange.
And because of that exchange, early on, we changed some of our plans.
The neighborhood said they wanted to see more in two and three bedroom units,
and we were able to accommodate that and resubmit all of our paperwork in order to do that because
we really do want to be a good neighbor. The ZBA approved last year phase one of this project,
which is 40 units. We have two buildings, again, trying to match the face of the neighborhood,
a 12-car parking lot. You know, we're dealing with our own trash with private pickup. All
of the things, right, that usually are a problem. We asked the neighbors what they wanted to
make sure happened or didn't happen with this project, and then we made sure that we incorporated
the responses that we got into what we have put into our project. Phase two, which we're
asking for help with zoning here is going to be 38 units. They will complement the 40 that are
going to be completed at the end of this year with phase one. They are deeply affordable,
incomes well below $40,000. We're looking at construction on phase two being complete
and tenant move-in anticipated in early 2028.
Again, internal trash collection, private pickup.
We're doing laundry in units.
There are 40-year deed restrictions.
And we're trying as much as possible as a nonprofit to build better.
And we're trying as much as possible as a non-profit to build better.
You know, we want people to have things that help them keep their utilities lower, like ceiling fans.
We want to put in higher-end appliances that will last.
And so, you know, we've put all of those things into the project.
We want people to have adequate storage space, which sometimes you don't find in low rent units,
for their precious belongings. We want, you know, things to flow. We want people to make this home
and to be there for a long time and to thrive. And, you know, it's all about thriving.
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. I think that's a great overview,
and we have we can provide more information if necessary um as you've seen i've shown some of
the designs yeah one of these three david why don't you just break it down like each project
and show us what you're doing there i think that would be make it easier right sure um this
i'll just say sorry one second let me move my 1409 is the first one right yeah 1409
it's basically a lot of these you know this is very common or the smaller uh row home lots that
being combined so that's what's happening in all three cases we have a multi-family building with
11 units here um with four units sorry 11 units at 1409 to 11 north 17th street four units at 1441
to 43 north 17th street and seven units at 1624 to 26 jefferson excuse me mr guest i'm just i'm a
little confused by this because the refusals for those 17th street properties have a different
number of units listed i believe 1409 is seven and then 1441 is six it's not 11 and four
oh i apologize about that um i'm let me let me double check but we do have um our design
professionals on the line here if you could promote them that's um fawn wong and dennis
kurek who i know will be able to answer that very quickly off the top of their head in the meantime
wait a minute who do you want to testify um let's start with um uh dennis kurek k-u-r-e-k mr kurek
i'm going to stop sharing my screen so i can just open up our exhibits to look at the refusals
chair i have a hand up from taylor de la pena oh she she's also a pathway so she may she could
also be promoted and can answer this question i think what happened is that um this is um what
was shown um earlier and there's been some tweaks as i mentioned on the proviso plan so i think
uh taylor could address those and she's there let's bring her up thank you
i saw her
but now she she was promoted briefly and now i don't see her
looks like there may be someone else under taylor's name this that's been promoted
sure yeah i i think maybe it's one of those situations where someone clicked on the zoom
like if whoever okay so whoever it is let's identify them okay i'm not i'm just not seeing
her name showing as a it's there the person under taylor de la pena can you please unmute
and identify yourself we can see you we can't hear you because you're muted this is dennis
kurek oh there thank you sir could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer
uh it's dennis d-e-n-n-i-s kurek k-u-r-e-k right do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole
truth nothing but the truth i do all right so council we have three different projects we're
voting on could you just break down the three projects and tell us what we have okay thank
you i apologize for the the confusion dennis if you could just based on the updated plans that
we've already provided if you could just state the number of units on each site address yeah thank
you for 1409 to 11 is seven dwelling units well let me ask you do you have the plans there could
you just put the plans up and then it'll be easier for you to talk about it right yeah I can share my
screen why don't you do that back again I mean I don't know if these are yeah so that's that look
right dennis yes i see seven dwelling units yeah yes so 1409 to 11 has seven dwelling units okay
and 16 this is the next one that happens that is just just for so we understand better sure
say they have six could you just show us it what it looks like a little bit
i mean let we can at least see it i can um go to this sorry
i mean let we can at least say it i can um go to this sorry um this image
um there we go
this is the 1409 to 1411 north 17 right and this has six or seven residential units say that again
six or seven seven um that's what the refusal says okay yeah and then um 14 but for you but but
david let's figure this out i mean you at least got to show the plans you see what i'm saying
you've got seven units i mean are there six on one four two and just show the plans right
yes i mean we at least i mean look i'm not we're not going to get microscopes with this but we just
want to at least see what oh no problem i um let me let me grab those from i think they're in the
exhibit pack in the meantime uh fawn if you have those handy ipotes that weren't in this um we had
the elevations but give me a second to look at the um exhibit packet and and if you could promote
fun uh wong who's the architect uh they're being promoted to the endless thank you
do you have the floor plans available to to review
yes okay are you able to share your screen hold hold hold hold could you please state
your name and spell for the stenographer my name is fine wong uh f-a-n w-a-n-g do you
swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please proceed
counsel thank you fun are you able to share your screen with the floor plans for the three properties
yes give me one minute
thank you I apologize for the delay
so let me share
So we're at 1409 right now.
Can you see?
So this is the floor plan of 1409 and 1411.
Total units is seven units.
we have uh flats over flat um we have
two apartments on the first floor um let me know if you need me to go into them
could you could you just orient the board um where the entrance is please
actually could you just stop zooming in and zooming out if it's just like in one place
it to be easier to read yes okay thank you so just why don't you zoom all the way out so it's
we're able to see everything yeah thank you and then give a high level overview of where the
entrance is and then yeah thank you yeah this door location if you can see where my hand is
that's the main entrance into the building we have a central corridor and stairway
On the first floor, there are two units, three bedroom accessible units, as well as
a one bedroom accessible units. They each have their own individual entrances.
When you go up the stairs, we have two additional units on the second floor.
Just zoom in slightly. There are two bedroom apartments with kitchens, bathrooms, individual amenities for each apartment.
When we go up the third floor, the total stories are three. So we have three stories for this building.
Third floor, we have another three apartments, excuse me, two apartments, so we have a one-by-room
So we have a one-by-room apartments at the top through this door, and then we have another two bedrooms.
apartments
Thank you.
Mr. Chair, do you have any questions about this property, or should we show the floor plan for the next property?
Well, is there anybody had any quick questions about this?
Yeah, where's the seventh unit?
It looks like there's three units on the third floor.
It looks like there's three one-by-room units.
Sorry.
let me correct myself on the third floor there are three units what's in the basement there's
no basement all right it's on slab okay hit a rear yard sorry rear your rear yard rear yard
it's in the back of the building so let me go back to the floor the first floor we have a
access door facing the sidewalk on uh on the 17th street and through that
access corridor we can walk through the next to the building to the rear yard
so everybody has access to the rear yard correct thank you yeah it's and just if it's helped when
we when we're done showing these i do have a separate plan that shows the rear yard more
clearly it's it meets code all right can we move on to the second property yes so the next one
is 1441 to 43 north 17th street uh go ahead if you want to just walk through the board the
through the plans with the board as you did with the first one please
So 1441 to 1443, we have the similar layout. The main entrance is also through the main
entrance door along North 17th Street. You walk into a central hallway with the stairway
to the upper floors. On the first floor, we have all the accessible units for mobile disability
residents. This unit is three bedroom accessible units. So that's one unit and then at the
end of the corridor there's another one bedroom accessible units. When we walk up to the second
floor we have another two units. At the plan south we have two bedroom units with entrance here.
The other half of the floor we have another two bedroom units.
So that's a total of four units on the second and the first floor.
on the
on the third floor
is the same layout as the second floor
so we have another
two bedrooms
two bedrooms on the third floor
total six
on 1441
to 1443
just the correction
it looks like every unit that you said was two bedrooms
is three bedrooms
on both the second floor and the first floor so it does it looks like you've got a one bedroom
unit and a three bedroom unit on the first floor and then two three bedroom units on the second
floor and two three bedroom units on the third floor is that right okay we have two three bedrooms
on the second and the third floors and it looks like there's one three bedroom on the first floor
the excess correct all right so why don't we move the number three just for an overview
thank you the third property is 16 16 24 jefferson yeah 16 24 to 26 jefferson
so this is 16 24 to 16 26 jefferson street
Also a similar layout, we have the main entrance along Jefferson Street, going into a main corridor, also a central stairwell.
On the first floor, we have a two-bedroom apartment unit.
and on the upper portion of the first floor plan we have another two baron units. So total
we have another two-bedroom units.
So total, two two-bedroom units on the first floor.
On the second floor, when we go up the stairs,
we have two units.
The first unit is a two-bedroom apartment unit.
And then on the upper part of the floor plan,
we have another two-bedroom units.
On the third floor, we have three units, total of three units on the third floor.
We have a one-bedroom here, another one-bedroom in the middle.
Also the third one-bedroom is here, so total of three one-bedroom units on the third floor.
total seven units on the lot of 16 why don't we take questions from all for anybody have any
questions about the project a few questions um i think my first question is understanding that
the first floor at each of these is supposed to be fully accessible but it looks like
you've got just enough hallway to get a wheelchair through what's going to be the plan for
packages
for the entire building.
Well, I would just imagine
somebody, you know, I know what it was like in every
apartment building, even in my own house,
and you get a bunch of Amazon packages
and all of a sudden your accessible path is
blocked. What's going
to be the kind of management plan
for these units
in the public
space?
So we have mailboxes
If I want you to answer that, and then I'll let Christine answer as well.
So go ahead, Ms. Wong.
We have mailboxes outside of the building.
That's for the USPS delivery, and there's a parcel box associated with the mailbox.
And if the mail delivery is through USPS, the parcel can be stored in the mailbox that's
outside.
I will let Christine speak.
I think there's a plan for a multi-family, I mean, multi-delivery carrier storage locker.
Christine?
Go ahead.
Thank you.
There is.
We've had extensive conversations and we're looking, we haven't picked a model yet, but
we're going to, in front of the buildings, have the type that has an electronic code
lock for the residents where Amazon can put a package or UPS can put a package.
Our intention is not to have packages lying willy-nilly around the apartment units.
Okay, that's my first question. My second question is about trash storage. I know this
is the notated plan and there's lots of notes on it, but it didn't look like
there's a dedicated trash closet in any of the units. I saw a closet for almost
everything else and so just want to know what's going to be the like week to week before trash
pickup day storage or maintenance for trash on site so we did plan for trash uh at the back of
the building trying to find a better plan we you can see there's concrete pavement and there will
be trash container located at the rear yard of each building, the residents will drop
their trash at the container in the back, and the maintenance staff will be able to pull
the container to the front during the trash collection days for collection.
And then are tenants going to have access to both doors, the main door and I guess that
pathway door to the rear yard where the meters are everybody has access to both correct okay
other questions questions from our attorney um i just wanted to note that the the floor plans and
i'm not sure if this site plan that's being shown with the trash enclosure was submitted either so
if if you would like these included for the record um they would need to be submitted by
like close of business tomorrow since they weren't previously sent thank you questions or comments
from the virtual audience uh Mr. chair I'm I'm sorry to interrupt may I just briefly discuss
the variances at issue just for the record sure thank you I can go very quickly I appreciate it
um Ms. Wong if you could please stop sharing your screen I appreciate it thank you I just
thank you i just wanted to you know cover uh these are their parking variances at issue so i just
wanted to you know cover uh these are their parking variances at issue so I just wanted to
wanted to mention it um so as as previously discussed uh pathways uh heard feedback from
mention it.
the community about a desire for more multiple bedroom units which resulted in three of the
properties including these larger unit sizes including as you just saw two buildings with
seven units and one with six units they triggered with these larger units a technical requirement
for a small amount of vehicular parking connected with the location within the north central
philadelphia overlay district so two one and two parking spaces are technically required
and none are proposed due to the very small lots and row home design in the context of
existing buildings in the neighborhood and the designs obviously are meant to maximize the
amount of of livable space and avoid the creation of curb cuts which would also result in the loss
of on-street parking. The variance is very minor in the context of this affordable housing
development. Pathways does not anticipate that many residents will have cars. The area is well
served by public transit. I won't list all of the various regional rail and broad street line and
buses that serve the area. The properties are unique, narrow properties without adequate space
for curb cut, as I mentioned, and compliance with the code's parking requirements would, in this
case cause an unnecessary hardship. The proposed signage, sorry, the proposed variances represent
the least modification possible to the relevant code provisions. And this is, as you've seen, I
hope, a great project for the area that will provide a lot of needed affordable housing. So
and we appreciate all the support from the community and the council office. So I just
wanted to wrap that up and mention that. So thank you for your time. Thank you. So we're going to
vote these uh three of them separately so first one m oh i thought i did public testimony please
chair do not see any hands raised for the matter amy boy with the planning commission
this testimony will be for all three cases thank you the comprehensive plan recommends
a change in zoning at this location from the current arm one residential multi-family to rsa
five residential single family the city planning commission wrote a letter letter to support
pathways housing wellness corporation funding request the appellant requests relief from the
parking standards of the north central philadelphia overlay district the proposal is for enforceable
affordable housing units which meets the recommend recommendations in the comprehensive plan
to promote new affordable housing units and prioritize info gap vacancies no off-street
accessory parking matches the character of the surrounding block faces the planning commission
recommends that the board grant the requested variances for parking thank you so number one
mi 2024 007402 1409 north 17th street i vote yes with proviso revive plan revised plan one page
stamped by ZBA, March 17th, 2026.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with proviso.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes, with proviso.
Taya Nguyen, my vote is yes, with proviso.
So number two, MI 2024-007-403, 1441 North 17th Street,
I vote yes, with proviso.
Revised plans, one page, stamped by ZBA, March 17th, 2026.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with Proviso.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes, with Proviso.
Kiowen, my vote is yes, with Proviso.
And number three, MI 2024-007-404-1624 Jefferson Street.
I vote yes, per refusal dated 2-10-25, revised plans, one page, stamped by ZBA on March 17,
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with Proviso.
Sinetta Graham my vote is yes with proviso Tywin my vote is yes with proviso thank you counsel
thank you thank you all appreciate it thank you all right we're gonna move to number four
MI 2025 000 993 4242 west style street Evan shingles is the attorney for the owner
this is a resumptive hearing
good morning mr chair this is jason hand i'll be stepping in temporarily
evan shingles will be back in shortly as a panelist right
good morning everybody good morning council could you please state your name and spell
for the stenographer certainly my name is evan shingles e-v-a-n
evan shingles e v a n s h i n g l e s you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and
nothing but the truth most certainly you identify your client a relationship to the property
certainly my client is 4639 westminster llc um the owner of the property specifically
Malcolm Richards, who's available today, if he could be promoted.
All right.
So, counsel, this is a resumptive hearing.
Yes, sir.
And what we will do is we need an update from you from everything that's happened since
the prior hearing, right?
Certainly.
And then there'll be questions from the board, there'll be public testimony, and then a planning
commission will take over.
So, why don't you start your presentation?
Absolutely.
If I may share, well, while I'm doing that, this hearing was resumed for the purposes of the evening.
We wanted to provide you with floor plans for the basement specifically and also some trash plans.
I have, if you'll bear with me for one second here.
Okay. With respect to the basement and the floor plans, if you will see, okay, I've taken the liberty of circling the basement area, which will show that there is nothing in here.
there will be no residence it would just be an empty finished basement for stash and trash and
item storage as my client can testify additionally there was a question about the trash storage
there's two units in the building one of which has access to the back and the basement and they
can store their trash in either the back or the basement for the second floor specifically my
client has put in and i've taken the liberty of already highlighting it in red a trash room for
the second floor to store their trash in until it is time to put it out on the street those were the
two issues that the board asked me to come back with and i'm here and my client is also available
for any questions you may have so why don't you bring your client on to adopt your testimony okay
he's available via zoom he isn't he isn't here with me yeah but I mean he can come on right
yeah absolutely if he could be promoted please absolutely thank you certainly
council what is a client's name Malcolm Richards
Malcolm Richards please raise your virtual hand wait to be sworn in thank you
they shall be rejoining shortly thank you
malcolm
we don't see him he's well he's there we just can't hear him
yeah your audio doesn't appear to be working so connected Evan you're an officer of the court
yes sir I would hope that you know enough about this case that we almost have your testimony
questions from the board um yes so can i get this is confirmation that there would uh be no trash
stored on the porch the front porch absolutely no trash stored on the porch for the first floor
either in the basement or in the back as the tenant prefers and on the second floor will be
this trash no trash on the porch thank you certainly other questions i see you i see you
still kept the access to the backyard through the bedroom which is a horrible
condition to have people go through a bedroom to go to the backyard for trash
for animals for picnics for barbecues you've got everybody checks in for your
bedroom I think that's a horrible condition so I would recommend that that
be changed for sure is the third floor is the third floor three bedrooms or is
Um, is the third floor, is the third floor three bedrooms or is it two bedrooms?
it two bedroom
There's two bedrooms on the third floor.
So there are two bedrooms on the third floor and then a full living dining room, et cetera, on the second floor.
Yes, sir.
That becomes a very nice unit.
and my client will have large unit put canisters in the basement uh for the tenant to store their
trash in as you as you noticed um that may not be an ideal situation Evan address the situation
with the rear the back bedroom the back bedroom uh well obviously there is that back door uh the
uh the i guess one of the intentions was originally to put some trash out here
uh for storage until it would be taken out the next day oh no no no i i i think mr john's issue
about going through a bedroom out to the having to right right having to go through a bedroom
period for for a company for anything having to go having having people to have to go through
your bedroom to access the rear yard okay I wish we could get our my client on here I haven't well
if it complies to put a wall there it would be a better situation functionally so that people don't
have to walk through your private space to go to the rear yard we can certainly understand this is
a one they understand this is a one bedroom so it's not as critical necessarily but it still
is a bad practice to have people walk through your private space to go to a rear yard or you got
you know like we mentioned i think or whatever who knows i think that's well noted and i'm sure
i can prevail upon my client to as you append in here uh to create that um to create that barrier
with the door it's still a nice sizable bedroom uh and is that your yes he it looks like mr richards
oh yeah yeah all right so that was my problem last time you'll notice i've
right right resolved the technology all right so you you're you're speaking for your client
about fixing that in the back am i correct yes absolutely okay all right um i have a question
okay about the basement um you said that it's finished oh no but there's going to be nothing
in it is that just nothing in it it won't be a finished store it will be for storage as
uh my client testified to us in the prior hearing it was a no house no household no yeah we'll have
that as a provision yeah absolutely and that's why we showed you this plan uh it came back and to
include the basement specifically so you could see there was nothing else in there but there's no
utilities in there there's no where you have washers and dryers i'm i'm not sure if i could
well the washers and dryers are in the unit and if you can see my my pencil here so it's really
trash shelving uh uh storage yes the tenants yes okay all right thank you questions for attorney
not at this time mr chair um questions or comments from the virtual audience
i do not see any further answer mr chair why any commission amy boyd from the planning commission
the comprehensive plan recommended rm1 residential multi-family zoning on this block base however in
a 2014 community requested map change the community asked for narrow blocks like this
one to be rezoned rsa5 residential single family there are no unique physical conditions or
circumstances of this property that would prevent it from being used in conformance with the zoning
code we are aware of four mostly family properties on this block face however the majority is
primarily single family the city planning commission recommends that the board deny
their requested variance for two dwelling units it's three right two okay those two just two
20 mi 2025 000 993 4242 west south street i vote yes with proviso no household living in basement
michael johns my vote is yes with proviso gerald gaston my vote is yes with proviso
tennetta graham my vote is yes with proviso ryan mcadams my vote is yes with proviso
hi when my vote is yes with proviso thank you council thank you so very much
hi my vote is yes with proviso thank you counsel thank you so very much everybody have a wonderful
day too um number six mi 2025 004 184 17 20 68 avenue joseph consul is the attorney this is a
resumptive hearing
good morning good morning council could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
joseph console that's j-o-s-e-p-h-c-o-n-s-o-l-a do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the
whole truth nothing but the truth yes um could you identify your client in relationship to the
property yeah miss sribara sampson and she's the owner this is a resumptive hearing and mr
council what we would appreciate an update from you of anything the changes since the last and
there'll be questions from the board public testimony and the planning commission please
uh yes we appeared before the board last time the plans were uh inadequate the board asked us to
revise them um for accuracy we had an architect visit the property and do plans for both the
proposed uh single family dwelling in the lower level as well as the existing home on the second
and third level. So that's what we did. Just to orient everyone real quickly, we are one of four
properties at the intersection of Bouvier and 68th Ave. The only one of the four that's zoned
are CMX1. The rest are RSA5. And the other properties all have variances for two, three,
and four unit respectfully and two of the three have active licenses so there's one
there's two and these properties are all exactly the same size as my clients
active three unit active two unit both obtained through variances and those are rsa5 properties
we are this property here
in the 60s it had variances respectively for a grocery store and a beauty salon it operated as
a beauty salon until the owner passed away and then found a disrepair my client purchased it
is living with her family upstairs now and will be hopefully renovating the lower floor
to be a single-family unit.
So here's the plans for that first floor.
And we have the architect, Liam Zhang,
on here to answer any questions about the proposed layout.
Piggybacking on what Mr. John said about the last one,
we don't have anyone walking through a bedroom
to get to a backyard.
We've got multiple entrances to the property.
Thank you.
and three bedrooms on on the first on the first floor and then looking at the
second and third pre-existing conditions you've got a first floor level you know
living dining and kitchen and all that and then the second floor you've got a
bathroom and three bedrooms um i don't know what else to to add except my clients here i know uh
last time um she was unable to be here so i've got uh miss samson available and i've got the
architect uh liam available as well why don't we bring your client on and then if we need be we'll
use the architect later but why don't we bring your client first okay miss samson could you raise
your virtual hand they're being promoted to panelists here thank you
hi how are you everybody hi could you please state your name is bill for the sonographer
chebrera samson s-h-e as an edward b as a boy r-a-r-a samson s-a-m as a mom p-s-o-n as an
Nancy. All right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes. Counsel? Ms. Samson, can you turn your camera on? The board appreciates that if possible.
Sure. Hi. So did you hear my testimony today regarding your property? Yes. Would you explain
to the board just briefly why you're seeking approval to use this property? I had one at the
This property isn't just I had one at the bottom portion for a living space. So
bottom portion for a living space.
Three-bedroom
Three-bedroom home for one family. I'm not doing any rooming or anything like that. So just a three-bedroom
We have two separate entrances a side door. We also have a backyard that has a exit door
And it'll be a living space
for, I would say, probably like three people. So one family with two kids, preferably.
Okay. Nothing further.
Questions from the board.
More of a comment. I just think that, you know, you have a three-bedroom unit across two stories
upstairs. You have a three-bedroom unit in the space of an existing commercial space. That's a
tight unit i think like one of those bedrooms is really really tiny and there's not a lot of public
living space um that's it's that it's packing a lot in a in a very small area yeah i agree i agree
with you 100 i think the bedroom in the front needs to go completely right then you've got a
decent living dining room space because one thing when people don't put furniture in plans and i say
this all the time you you it makes it look like you've got room you really
don't by the time you put a table where do you put a sofa where do you put the
TV where you put the chairs it's it's not and then compare that to what you're
doing on the second and third floor where you've got this gracious three
bedroom house and you're trying to squeeze people into what is at max a
two-bedroom apartment right so I think that just in terms of functionality and
livability just doesn't work for a three-bedroom unit okay uh ms samson would you consider those
adjustments yeah okay um so if the board's looking for a resubmission of a of an updated plan um
we're open to that uh or whatever the board sees fit um uh hillary's shaking her head no uh okay
interested i mean i see they're shaking her head no can you provide enough to put it on the record
Yeah. Yeah. No, I was going to say that this is a change of view. So there's no, we can't, couldn't stamp plans or anything in this case. So I don't think there's a, there's a need to resubmit, but we have it on the record.
Okay. Sure. Um, other questions from the board?
Yes. Could you just tell us about the trash stores for, um, both units?
Yeah. Ms. Samson, let the board know where you anticipate both the new unit and where the current unit, uh, stores the trash prior to trash day.
so um their trash will go on the side of the property on the curb and mine will go in the
front of my property on the curb uh how about prior to that prior to taking it out like um
you know say you have excess bags that overflow in the kitchen gate and on the side of the gate
i was going to have a trash storage area i'm trying to get a photo of that side but i can't
because you have a large there's a large backyard back there um where it could be
definitely be stored because you have it if you look on the plans here you have
access to the rear yard through the mechanical and washer dryer room yeah
and your rear yard is fenced in with a wood fence so the trash is replaced yeah
yeah I'm just saying in terms of stored trash stores so it's not stored on the
street before trash day it could be stored in the rear yard you've got you've got a decent rear yard
that has that you can't even see in because it's got a wood fence so i think that's probably a good
place for it yeah yep is that for both units though mike are you saying that for both units
oh i don't know does the second floor have access to the rear yard no oh so that okay and they
You store that trash on that front patio thing or whatever.
Questions from our attorney?
No, I just have one more comment just for the plan.
You show a handicap accessible bathroom,
and I kind of don't know why,
because the rest of the unit is not accessible.
Your doors to your bedroom is unaccessible.
The hallway, the wall, the access through that to go to that back room is not accessible.
So I'm not sure why you show wheelchair accessible.
Well, I was thinking about it when we had wrote the plan out.
I was thinking about putting everything up to code to do that, but I wasn't sure.
Well, if you do, your architect needs to make sure that everything else complies.
If you if you want to do make a wheelchair accessible unit, then make sure everything else complies.
OK, that's my only comment.
Attorney. Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Chair, we have a hand that went up, just went up from a Kimberly West Brown.
Chair.
They're being promoted.
Hi, Ms. Brown.
hello hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
yes my name is kimberly west brown that's k-i-m-e-e-r-l-y w-e-s-t hyphen brown b-r-o-w-n
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
yes i do kimberly could you turn your video on if you have a video there
yeah sure i'm so sorry about that no no no to be sorry for it
hi please proceed are you a neighbor um i am one of the representatives for um the rco okay sure
please proceed um i apologize that um i didn't get a chance to send the letter yet we did have
a meeting um to discuss this um property last week and um our meeting had um community members
as well as rco members we had 18 votes that were against this um against this project and five that
were in favor um a lot of the reason why a lot of the neighbors um the affected neighbors were
against it was because they had concerns about property values they had concerns about increased
density about the parking and um they were concerned a lot about the things that um
The board has brought up as far as the spacing of three bedrooms in a basement property, and they were just concerned that how could one family live in three bedrooms in this property?
They also had some concerns about what the applicant's intentions were as far as some of the things that came up where is she going to actually live in this property?
and a lot of the community members just said that there have been a lot of other properties
that have kind of been zoned out to basically duplexes and multifamily units and it kind of
changes the the aspect of what the neighborhood is about most of these community members that
were against this have uh lived in this area and lived in their home for many many years
um however there was um uh the applicant's neighbor who's lived there for many many years
that was actually for her doing this um it just uh it was a it was a productive meeting but as
i said unfortunately there were 18 that were against it and five that were in favor and
we as the RCO have to go along with the community once um Mr. Council do you have any questions
I don't um Kimberly thank you very much for your uh testimony we appreciate it uh you really did
lay it out pretty well um anyone else in the virtual audience no hands at this time chair
any commission Amy board with the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends
no change to the CMX1 commercial mixed use zoning at this location. The property has a history as
a single-family dwelling with ground floor commercial space dating back to the 1960s.
The appellant is requesting to convert the vacant commercial space into a dwelling unit.
The intent of the CMX1 district is to provide flexibility for an owner to use
their ground floor for either residential or commercial use. The Planning Commission recommends
that the board grant their requested variants for two-family household living.
Oh, thank you very much.
Joe, we'll vote on this in two weeks, right?
Oh, no, it's three weeks.
I'm sorry, because we're not going to be there the one Easter week, all right?
And April, that'll be April 8th at 930.
April 8th, okay, and then 930 a.m.
All right, thank you, and thank you very much for your testimony today.
Is there anyone else in the audience whose case has not been called?
no hands at the sign check um see everybody tomorrow morning bright and early thank you