my our vote my vote is yes my vote is yes my vote is yes my vote is yes
calendar number one eight four nine one seven one nine spring garden street the attorney is
Mr. Clinton has been promoted to panelists.
Thank you.
Hi, Mr. Clinton. Can you put your name and address on the record and spell your last name?
Henry Clinton, C-L-I-N-T-O-N, Queen Memorial Building, 1313 South 33rd Street, Philadelphia PA, 19146.
You're still under oath from this morning. Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
Have you emailed the exhibit packet with proof of ownership, tax compliance, refusal, referral, photos and plans five days in advance of this hearing? And have you met with the RCO? And do you have a letter?
Yes, all to the above.
Thank you. You may proceed.
I'll share my screen.
is that visible enough yeah it's great good afternoon mr chairman members of the board
henry clinton here on behalf of international brotherhood of electrical workers local 98
as well as the electrical mechanics association on the call with me is vince de stasio he's the
designer of the signage that we're going to discuss as well as pat dunbar he's a project
manager for the installation of the sign, as well as Jack O'Neill, who's a representative of
Local 98 and EMA. This is my table of contents, including all my presentation items,
AA through A9, which includes all relevant documents to move this matter forward.
my appearance statement uh and refusal so by way of background this this case involves a request
for signage uh we were before the board on march 10th at which time uh the case was continued i
believe for at least a second time because we were waiting for the historical commission to weigh in
On March 17th, through a series of exchanges of emails, the historical commission staff approved the project thus far and said they would weigh in again at the permitting process.
What the holdup was is the staff thought this might have to go to the full commission, but they have assured us it does not have to go to the full commission because the building is a non-contributing building in the Spring Garden historical overlay.
uh so the request was originally for an animated sign an animated sign would be simply something
that you know you would see on television something that moves uh something that uh
like a cartoon or any television show would be animated and that was the first request
and the sign was going to be along the top of the building which i'll show you as i move through the
project but basically we've eliminated the animation we've had a series of two or three
meetings with spring garden civic association and i believe justin in the varro from the spring
garden civic association is on the call and as a result of those meetings we have drastically
changed the proposed signage so much so that we've entered into a comprehensive agreement
with Spring Garden Civic to basically limit the use and the hours, et cetera, of the sign.
And again, I'll explain that to you as we move through it. I just wanted to give you that
background. So as a result of those meetings, we were able to eliminate three refusals.
So as a result of those meetings, we were able to eliminate three refusals and then a fourth refusal, which is that the sign should be lower than the roof line.
We've eliminated that, too, because we've placed a sign at a lower location on the building so it's more pedestrian friendly.
So we're really down to one refusal, and that refusal would be this one on the amount of the flat wall sign that you're allowed to have.
And we've actually brought this number down by 200 square feet, that number being 516 square feet.
So that's page six of my presentation binder.
We do have a letter of support from Spring Garden, as well as, as I said, a comprehensive agreement with them.
And I'll get into that later.
These are some prospective photographs for you.
This is Spring Garden Street.
It's a very wide boulevard, as all members of the panel know, of the board know.
There's parking here, two moving lanes, an island with trees, two additional moving lanes, and another parking lane.
So you really have six lanes of traffic, as well as sidewalks that are about 15 feet.
Directly across the street is a blank wall, mainly, of the Community College of Philadelphia.
So we have no residential impact across the street from where the signage will be.
This is not the signage that you see on the front of the building now.
This was a political banner that was put up when Mayor Kenney was running.
So that is not the sign, but I'll show you the sign.
The buildings further west are both commercial.
This is the office building of Gay and Chacker.
and next door to that at the corner of 19th street excuse me 18th street is a Montessori school
another photograph now now we're looking east we're looking in the other direction
again here's the building right here there's a banner that was there for political purposes
this is a driveway leading into the back of the building and if you look over here you can see
that there are a number of buildings to the east of the local 98 offices and these are these are
apartments but what I wanted to point out was the the 98 building is actually recessed behind the
buildings to the east and to the west by about four feet and you can see it in this gap here this
area where I'm putting my cursor is the west wall of the first building that's adjacent to
the local 98 building. And again, you can see the wideness of Spring Garden Street and the
blank wall across the street of the community college. This is just an aerial perspective to
give you an idea of how the building is situated. And again, I'll show you our original proposal
and our secondary proposal. Another view now, this is looking towards center city,
giving you an idea. You can actually see the building is a little bit recessed from the
residential to the left. There's no residential across the street. There's no residential
on the corner. On this far corner of 18th and Spring Garden, that would be the southwest
corner. There's a large apartment building. And then behind the community college are
additional buildings affiliated with the college. We do have revised plans if the board looks
kindly upon this application. They were sent separately to Attorney Saleta, but they're also
a part of this package. These are the actual plans of the signage. What's key, I think, for the board
to understand on this rendering here is that the width of the sign, as well as the backing of the
sign, is going to be basically seven, almost seven and a half inches. And I'll tell you why that's
important as again as I move through this. So this was our original proposal and this is what
resulted in the refusal of five use refusals. This sign was going to project a little bit above the
top of the roof and also project away from the building. What we have done in discussions with
Spring Garden Civic Association, we've moved the signage down to this area and instead of having
one continuous banner, we actually have four individual signs that are set back within
these brick columns. The brick columns protrude from the front elevation of the building by
10 inches. And that's why the prior display I showed you of the both the size of the screening
and the size of the mounting bracket is seven to five eighths inches. So not only is the
building setback but also the signage will be set back within the brick
columns and will not protrude from the building. So this is a sample of what the
signage will look like. It will not be animated, it will be display signs like
it will be display signs like maybe you would see off of a highway, but certainly not
maybe you would see
anywhere near that size. And so the signage could be individual, it could be every other,
it could be one message. And when the sign is not in usage, the brick display will show, it'll look
like it's part of the building. It will be actually seamless. If you've ever been to the
Comcast holiday show in their lobby, if you look at that wall, you think that's a solid wooden wall,
but it's really a display of a projection of pixels that makes it look like it's part of the
wall. So that's what this would look like. When there's no signage there, it'll actually look
like it's part of the building. And one of my witnesses today, Vince DeStasio, is a gentleman
who designed and supplied both the display in the Comcast building as well as the digital sign for
the Franklin Institute. Speaking of the sign for the Franklin Institute, this is kind of what our
signs will be. It's just going to be a digital display with no moving parts and this is a
double-sided sign. And actually on Spring Garden Street, I just want to also point out to the
board that there is a digital sign already right outside the bus stop right here outside
community college. The zoning map just showing you that the area is zone CMX2. This is where
the building is located and this is a special purpose institutional across the street which
is community college. So I just want to go back. So basically we think in the sign for
from the top of the roof, moved it down
so it becomes more pedestrian friendly.
The size of the sign, it's under 11 feet
and it's about seven and a half feet high,
each of the four signs.
There will be non-commercial use of the signage.
And as part of the comprehensive agreement
with Spring Garden, I just wanna run through
some of the particular aspects of the sign
so the board can understand how it will be used.
only information provided by local 98 and or spring garden community college will be permitted
on the sign it's not a commercial sign it's not for advertising it's not to gather any type of
rental income whatsoever there's no animation no animation images no animation messages no
animation content there's no strobing no flashing no pulsing no pulsation
the images can be up there for no shorter than 15 seconds. So you don't have a situation where
every three or five or 10 seconds, as signs coming up, distracting anybody that's walking by.
In terms of illumination, it can be illuminated from 5 a.m. to midnight. At night, it gradually
diminishes the pixels. The ambient lighting will diminish to about 60% decrease. Each one of these
signs will have pixels and depending on the number of pixels you have per square inch,
that really gives you the density of the sign and provides really what the viewers see.
the other agreements we have with spring garden is there's no music either from the signs or any
other area outside the building this sign will will remain there's also an agreement that there's
no further signage that the the applicant will ask for if the building happens to be sold the
signs have to come down the signs are supposed to be of the highest quality like the franklin
institute and the comcast center so there are some of the particulars that we've agreed to
with spring garden over the last series of meetings that we've had with them
so i do have two short actually three witnesses that are that are very short if the board
will permit the first witness will be pat dunbar he's the installer i just want him to
verify that some of the statements I made about the installation and how it will be mounted to
the building are true and correct. Pat Dunbar. Good afternoon, Mr. Dunbar. Please identify
yourself for the record. Spell your last name and I'll swear you in.
Pat, can you raise your hand so that Ms. Benton can let you into this meeting?
let you into this meeting.
Mr. Dunbar, you can unmute yourself and speak now.
Mr. Dunbar, you're going to...
My name is Pat Dunbar, D-U-N-B-A-R.
Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, sir, I do.
Thank you. Mr. Clinton?
um mr dunbar you were on the call when i went through the various iterations of the sign
and the agreements that we made with spring garden correct yes and you attended all the
meetings with me as well as with mr destazio who will be the next witness you attended all those
meetings yes and from a technical point of view how i describe where the signs will be located
and how they be they will be recessed is that something that can be done and will be done by
you during the installation process yes it will and is it true that the the brick columns
protrude from the face of the building 10 inches and that the actual signage will be
the depth of the sign itself will be no bigger than seven and a half inches yes
that's all i have for you mr dunbar i really appreciate it all right thank you next witness
will be vince de stasio he's the vice president of video visions
mr de stasio you can unmute yourself and speak now thank you very much uh mr de stasio you have
to be sworn in mr de stasio please spell your first and last name i'll swear you in
It's Vincent D'Stasio, V-I-N-C-E-N-T, last name D'Stasio, D-I-S-T-A-S-I-O.
Thank you. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Thank you, Mr. Clinton.
Mr. D'Stasio, you were on the call during the presentation of my testimony as well as out of Mr. Dunbar, correct?
That is correct.
Okay, and can you describe your position and the name of your company?
I'm the vice president of Video Visions, and we're located in Trivos, PA.
We are an integration company.
Okay, and have you had other experience with the design and installation of signage similar to this in the city of Philadelphia?
I have.
And were you involved with the Comcast sign in the lobby of the Comcast building?
I was involved in the initial design of the Comcast Center.
Okay. And how about with the digital sign that's currently on display outside the Franklin Institute?
I designed and installed that.
And that's a double-sided sign, correct?
That is correct.
Okay. And you agree that the sign that will be installed, if all goes well,
on this building will be of a similar and high quality as those two signs?
It'll be a little higher quality.
Okay. And would you agree that we'll be able to fulfill all the representations that I outlined
uh to the board and that we that we've had in our meetings with spring garden civic association
yes and you attended all those meetings with spring garden civic association correct
that is correct would you agree that this sign will not be visible uh from the sides of the
building by any residential structure or really by by anyone because of the nature of how the
building is recessed as well as the signs are recessed that is correct i have nothing further
thank you very much thank you so mr chairman just in conclusion before i bring home one last witness
i just want to point out to the board that we think this is unique circumstance unique physical
circumstance and conditions uh that warrant the board looking kindly upon this application
not only because of the character of the neighborhood i mean this is not a resent
residential neighborhood there's institutional use across the way yes there are apartments to
the east, but to the west are two commercial buildings. The sign will be not visible from
the side by anyone because of the nature of the recess. There is no endangerment to the
health, welfare, or safety of any pedestrian or any vehicle that may be driving by. There's
no impairment to the development of any adjacent property because of the signage. The signage
will not be have any commercial component whatsoever.
We believe that the signage is in harmony with the code.
It's certainly in harmony with the neighborhood
and what the neighborhood wants
and what the neighborhood has agreed to.
As I mentioned, we do have a pretty detailed agreement
with Spring Garden and this sign will not devalue
any properties in the neighborhood.
So with that, I would like to bring on a representative of 98 without my testimony, as well as a testimony of Mr. Dunbar and Mr. DeStasio, and then also ask the board if there are any questions.
So with that, I would like to bring on a representative.
So Mr. Jack O'Neill, can you can you raise your hand?