Well, as the design teams look at the school -- and we provide the specifications --
-- for new buildings, that it will be as part of those specifications, yes.
Okay. All right. Just a couple more. After-school programming. How was the School District impacted with the discontinuation of Safe and Sound as it relates to your after-school programming and/or Beacon schools?
Perhaps Dr. Jones could assist on this. I know it came up earlier when we were talking about the truancy program and who would be responsible for the parent truant officers. 233 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. So Dr. Jones.
Depending on what happens with the reorganization of Safe and Sound, we certainly fund, partially fund, some of those after-school programs, and so we were meeting with Dr. Shorr earlier, because we had some questions about it. She was the person we went to for some questions about that information, because depending on how that reorg is finalized, it is going to have impact on what we do in terms of Beacons and some of the programs that are jointly funded by the School District. It is our understanding that everything is supposed to be resolved by June, so there's going to be a smooth transition. And so we have certainly responded and said that we are willing to serve on this committee or hope that they move forward, and I have said that I will absolutely serve to make sure that transition is smooth, because we are concerned. 234 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc.
Yes. It's a lot of -- how many young people are attending after-school programming in the schools, approximately? I'm just curious. I mean, ultimately we want to know what the impact is going to be for parents who are relying on young people to be in a safe structure, stimulating place after school.
I'll get back to you with that figure, but what I will say, in terms of the summer especially, we understand that that transition will be finished for the fall. Our concern is, as you're raising, for the summer for those children who will be in extended-day activities, this is a concern, and I will get that exact figure for you.
Finally, on the summer schools, is that still a reality for parents and students systemwide, or how is it structured?
It is systemwide. 235 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. That is part of the promotion and graduation requirements. Summer school will be kindergarten through grade and 5 summer programs for grade 12. It's July 6 1 through July 31, and we try to use the 7 air conditioned buildings as much as 8 possible. The students will have an 9 opportunity to earn their credits and to 10 have promotion requirements -- to meet 11 promotion as long as they meet the requirements of coming to school, passing the assessments and then looking at what the transition will be. This year what the District has added is that we want to make sure that there is a transition plan for every child who goes to summer school so that the teacher in the fall knows exactly what happened.
Yes. On 236 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. after-school programs, we have a number run within the District. One that I think to go to your question, which was the Beacon schools, 29 sites with 3,500 students. We have five other programs that Dr. Jones administers and would not be part -- or will be functioning, and that's thousands of students. But we're really concerned about the impact on that 5,500, as she said.
Okay. All right, then. I thank you all for your testimony, and I will look forward to the MBE/WBE report.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Green.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We left last time talking about 237 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. an important metric determining whether or not a school district or a school itself succeeds is the involvement of the parents, and I guess what I'd like to suggest is that it's important for the future of this City and it's important for the children in the schools and the schools for parents who would be involved to stay here in Philly and send their kids to the public schools, because that is a factor that will make a large difference, and I think it should be the mission of the School District to provide a school acceptable to every parent in Philadelphia who would be involved in their child's school if they sent them there. I don't know how to tell you to do that, but it's not a way I think the District is operating or thinking today. And if that becomes one of your missions, maybe we can -- it's something that you can look at. I just throw that out there.
Councilman, let me assure you that it is our thinking. We may not be where we should be in implementing it and bringing it to reality, but I do not disagree and no 7 member of the Commission disagrees with you, that that is our goal, to make these schools the schools of choice for every parent who has children of school age in the City of Philadelphia. So we share that mission and would look forward to your suggestions in terms of how we may do that better and can be moving more aggressively in that direction.
And I guess the corollary to that is, if you can't do that, shouldn't those parents whose children would otherwise go to the suburbs, shouldn't they get a voucher to send their children in a school that's acceptable to them if you can't provide an acceptable school?
Point of order, please. 239 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. Did you say the suburbs?
No. I'm just -- the choice is parents leaving Philadelphia to go to the suburbs, selling their house, moving out because we're not providing a school acceptable to them. My question is, if we're not providing a school acceptable to that parent, what obligation should the School District have to provide money for them to send their kids to school in Philadelphia where they want? And I recognize that charter schools are filling some of that void.
I think it becomes a bigger issue than what the School District would provide to the parents. I realize the mission, and I understand your intent and I do agree with you, but as far as the funding of vouchers, I believe is what you said, I think that --
Well, some way to keep the parents -- in other 240 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. words, if your mission is to keep parents in Philadelphia, have their children educated here and involved in schools here, whether or not it's the School District or not, our overall goal in Philadelphia is to have a highly educated workforce, whether they went to the public schools or private schools or whatever. So how do we accomplish that? How do we keep people here when they don't choose to send their children to the School District? I mean, whatever the answer to that question is, I'd be interested in it. I didn't mean to suggest an answer.
No, and I think it deserves a thoughtful answer, and I don't think in the next 30 seconds you're going to get that. I think it's an intriguing and a very important question that needs to be answered. I was just keying on what you had said, which is what is the School District going to do for the parents in terms of a voucher, and I 241 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. think that that goes to what you said before. You just dropped into Philadelphia. What's the signs of a system that's working. And I would tell you that I didn't say part of the system would be is it an engaged Mayor, is it an engaged City Council, is it an engaged business community, and do they all care about the success of the school. So a long way of saying, I don't think it's a school problem in terms of vouchers.
And that money needs to be reinvested in our public schools to make them better to prevent the parents from having to make the choice.
Okay. So one more sort of big question, then I have some specific questions that I'll talk to you about about infrastructure, investment and other things. 242 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. Is the passive teaching model just broken?
Is the passive teaching model broken? By that I mean teacher standing at a blackboard.
What you will see throughout our classrooms is that we use really interactive, engaged teaching. Will you see it in every classroom? No. 12 Do you see that as the structure and with the intent of our professional development and assist of our teachers? Yes. And so what you will see is that it is interactive. It is using manipulatives. It's using -- having the problem and project-based learning, using exploration, and there is a place where you do stand and deliver.
Sure, yeah. But what percentage of classrooms between kindergarten and sixth grade or kindergarten and eighth grade are truly experiential learning like you're 243 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. describing versus, Okay, now we're going to look at , children?
It's on a continuum, and I would say that in every school you will have classrooms that will look just like I described, but you will still see far too many classrooms that have the standard deliver, and that's why that is a focus for our professional development.
Do you know the answer to the question, though, what percentage of classes --
Well, can you please provide that to the Chair with a grade-by-grade breakdown?
Well, to quote Councilman Jones, if you don't have it measured, you can't manage it. So if that is a goal of the School District's, 244 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. you should know the answer to that question.
Let me tell you why I'm qualifying the answer. Because as I said, in every school that you will go to, you will see that, and so as we're providing professional development, we do walk-throughs. We can tell you a class by class. And so there will be classrooms where a teacher may have started out the year not doing that and at a snapshot in time, we can tell you, yes, we can. So we can provide you with that information. And one of the things that I would suggest is that we did a walk-through about two months ago and we're doing another one in May. As a result of that walk-through, we do go to every classroom, and we'll be able to tell you that at a snapshot in time for that day. So that walk-through is scheduled for May and we can give you that information. 245 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc.
Well, I will suggest to you that on the walk-through day, far more teachers will be doing experiential learning than on the day when you're not there.
I can tell you based on the first one, believe it or not, that's not true. I can tell you that based on the results of the first one, teachers teach the way they teach. You can't fake that. If you're not doing project-based learning, that's not something you can just do.
Well, that's good. So can you send me -- did you say you did one in September?
We did one about two months ago, so we can give you that snapshot, but we're doing it again --
Was that a box that the reviewer checked, whether they were doing project-based learning or --
It's not just 246 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. project based, but it will talk about whether it was student engagement, the methodology and the strategy, so we can tell you from that whether it was standard deliver, whether it was interaction, whether -- what the strategy. So we can do that.
I think it will be good information for both of us to have.
Thank you. Okay. According to the testimony, the estimated total needed to renovate and repair the School District buildings is in excess of $4 billion. You have a five-year $1 billion capital outlay and nothing is -- there's no 21 funding identified after 2009. So how much of the one billion is actually identified?
Actually, the one point -- it's 1.5, I thought. One point 247 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. five billion has been identified, bonded and is in the process of being built, designed, built, constructed, et cetera. But we will be going out to the bond market to get the 600 and -- I'll get the exact figure -- 600-and-something million for the rest of the authorization, but that requirement is much larger than what we've had authorized to date. And so we have 1.5. Two seventy will complete the 1.5, and that's in January. And, actually, the four billion is probably understating it and the newest master facility plan will give us a better feel, and I'm thinking six to seven billion. The average age of our buildings is 65 years old and not a great deal of investment in the infrastructure in the last years. 21 (Bell rung.) 22
25 Councilman, our schedule indicates that 248 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. we would be completing our testimony today at 3:30 and continuing the hearing until o'clock tomorrow morning. So it 5 is now 25 after 3:00. So if you want to 6 ask a question, this will be your last 7 for today, or you can wait until 8 tomorrow. And I know -- 9
It's a very 10 long question. That's perfect. Take notes.
And I do know that you're feeling under the weather right now.
You have five minutes today or you could go on and on tomorrow.
I'll just finish this point on infrastructure and then I'll move on.
And, Councilman, 249 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. I'm sorry, I just wanted to for the record just announce that Commissioner Heidi Ramirez has joined us and I just wanted to make Councilmembers aware of that. Thank you.
Welcome. So have you done any sort of study that looks at what the deferred maintenance you have or whether or not your maintenance budget is sufficient to prevent an increasing capital need over the next few years? In other words, if you don't fix the hole in the roof, then you have to replace the roof and the walls. And is the maintenance budget sufficient to keep your capital needs predictable or have you requested enough money for maintenance so that capital is not going to continue to grow?
The proverbial you don't change the filter and then you'll have to change the air conditioner in five years, a problem now versus a 250 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. problem in the future. This was looked at about two years ago, I'm told, and it's approximately $265 million a year that we should be spending on maintenance activities, and I believe we spend about 167 million. And so we are -- and this is not just Philadelphia. It's pretty standard across most school systems, that if you look at what private enterprise corporations invest in infrastructure versus school systems, we find that we're underfunded. So, yes. Is that a part of the seven billion? Probably. But capital versus operational costs and investments every year and how much can we put in a classroom and what do you not put in a classroom to fund completely your capital program.
Can you tell us the difference between if we were to spend what's really needed for maintenance how much we'd save in capital over the next five or ten years? 251 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc.
Because maybe we could get a positive return on investment.
But I think the bigger question wouldn't be how much necessarily you'd save on your capital bill in the fifth and -- I'm not justifying it. I'm just trying to explain it. The ten-year capital program you'd probably save a bunch of money, and maybe you'd save the debt service without having to invest in the capital funding, but that would require heart-wrenching decisions every year to the tune of what are we not going to teach children this year because we have to put it in maintenance.
Well, we're paying one way or the other ultimately. I mean, we're paying for it. We're going to fix it --
No free lunch 252 4/28/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080158, etc. either way.
Thank you. Thank you all so very much. This Committee will stand in recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow, and then we will recess until 1:30. We'll come back at 1:30, and whatever testimony we have will go to 3:00, and then tomorrow evening, if we have public testimony, it will be from 5:30. So we will see you all tomorrow. Thank you. (Committee of the Whole adjourned at 3:30 p.m.) - - - 253 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on April 28, 2008, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)