COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING - COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, June 14, 2005, 1:55 p.m. Resolution 050349 - Resolution authorizing the Committee on Licenses and Inspections to hold hearings on the alarming increase in rental properties in certain sections of Northeast Philadelphia... PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN JOAN KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN JUAN F. RAMOS COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I
The Committee on Licenses and Inspections is called to order. This is the public hearing. The witness list is Tom Forkin, Mayfair CDC first. We'll ask the clerk to read it first.
Resolution 050349, a resolution authorizing the Committee of Licenses and Inspections to hold hearings on the alarming increase in rental properties in certain sections of Northeast Philadelphia and to also explore the possibility of creating a Rental Housing Unit within the Department of Licenses and Inspections to ensure that all proper permits and licenses are being obtained by these owners.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the L&I Committee. My name is Tom Forkin and I am the Vice-Chairman of the Mayfair Community Development Corporation. 3 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I
Tom, I don't want to interrupt you, but in case anyone, I guess, is dying to know, this is Councilman Jack Kelly.
I am testifying today, along with several Mayfair residents -- to my right, Mr. Frank Raggazzoni; to my left, Mr. and Mrs. Nick DeLorentis -- in support of the resolution before us exploring the creation of a special Rental Housing Unit within the Department of Licenses and Inspections. First, the core issue before this committee needs to be clearly defined and fully understood. Our concern of the Mayfair CDC and as Mayfair residents is not aimed at legitimate efforts to promote home ownership by any group or any individual, Nor is it aimed at the proper rental of legally zoned duplexes, triplexes or apartments. Rather, our concern is aimed at investors, often out of state based, purchasing single-family rowhomes and twins in our community and immediately renting out these homes to 4 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I transient tenants. In addition, these properties very often are not licensed and become magnets for various L&I code and CLIP violations. Needless to say, this recent rental phenomenon serves to destabilize a hard-working middle-class neighborhood and to break down community cohesion. All of this produces a downward cycle in the overall quality of life for our entire community. Two specific major problems which flow from this issue are the significant proliferation of rental homes in a defined neighborhood and the various licensing and codes violations which are often attributable to these rental properties. As to the rental proliferation issue, an analysis by the Mayfair CDC revealed that during a 12-month period, from January 2004 to January 2005, 3,796 homes were sold in zip codes 19136, 19149 and 19152. Of these 3,796 homes, at least 1,139 were non-owner occupied. That is, 30 percent of all homes sold in these zip codes over a one-year period 5 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I were non-owner occupied. Percentages in this high range for total rental properties are a serious warning sign for the continued stability of any neighborhood in our City. What can be done to address this problem? The Mayfair CDC offers several ideas for this committee to consider and hopefully implement in the near future. No. 1, strong support for immediate creation of a special Housing Unit within L&I to inspect, monitor and enforce licensing and code violations in rental properties, particularly single-family homes. No. 2, the immediate implementation, as proposed by CLIP, of special window stickers for rental properties to facilitate better enforcement and tracking of these properties by inspectors. No. 3, increased L&I penalties and fees for necessary business privilege and rental licenses, as well as any subsequent code violations. These are fees that the City could and should be collecting for the General Fund. 6 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I No. 4, enacting an ordinance, as previously advanced by the North Light Community Center in Manayunk, to require investor purchasers to sign a document at real estate settlement that they understand, A, the City Zoning Code prohibits leasing a single-family home to more than three unrelated individuals; B, that they must obtain a business privilege license and a rental license before leasing the property; C, they understand the penalties for these violations. No. 5, promote coordination with area mortgage lenders and City and state banking authorities to fully enforce fraud penalty provisions of mortgage loan documents requiring written owner-occupied representations in order to receive more favorable loan interest rates. The Mayfair CDC will continue to strive to help make our neighborhood a great place to live, work and shop. We ask only that City Council work with us to help achieve that goal by legislatively addressing and 7 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I correcting the destabilizing aspects of investor-owned rental properties as soon as possible. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
Thanks, Tom. I just want to say Councilman Rizzo joined Councilman Krajewski, Councilman Kelly and myself, and Councilman Krajewski has a statement.
First of all, I want to thank the Mayfair CDC for the great job you do, as well as the Tacony CDC. I know how hard you all work, believe me.
Mr. Chairman, this issue is one of the biggest currently facing Northeast Philadelphia. I understand that these investors are allowed to make money. However, these investors have no 23 stake in the neighborhood and, for the most part, could care less about the quality of life issues facing our residents. 8 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I These residents are upset and concerned about the number of rental properties now in our neighborhood. I don't know if we have anyone from the Law Department here. I do see someone from the L&I, Commissioner Solvibile. Is anyone here from the City Planning or the Law Department?
What about the Law Department? I think a lot of the questions are referred to the Law Department as well as the L&I.
Thank you, Councilwoman. It's hard for the Councilwoman to get her voice across because of her sickness, but she's doing a heck of a lot better, and thank God, because when she really starts yelling, as everyone in here knows --
I really am yelling about this issue. 9 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I
And Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown. And, Tom, Mr. Forkin, you brought up a good point. One of the issues -- and I'm glad that you caught that, because it's something that I was thinking about right before you said it. When you apply for these remortgages or for a mortgage, it's always cheaper if you say you live -- and they don't -- it's between the banker and yourself. So no one probably from the bank follows through to see if you actually live there, as long as you mail the thing in every month. So that's something that we could have the Law Department and L&I and whoever else find out. But you understand today's hearing is going to be basically the civic groups. Then when the summer is done and we come become in session, we want to have hearings again with more people. So if we can't get 10 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I all the people from the City here today, we will definitely have them here in September when we do this again. But anyone else have anything to say on this panel?
Frank Raggazzoni. I'm a Mayfair resident. Mine isn't necessarily testimony. It's more or less a plea. I was born and raised in Philadelphia, recently married. My wife was a suburban girl. Okay? I live --
The funny thing is, though, that my wife, her whole family grew up in the City. They know what 11 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I it's like to go to block parties. They know what it's like to walk to church, to walk to the bank, to have all the conveniences of a neighborhood. That's something that when I was married, my wife and I looked out in the suburbs to buy a home and easily could have done it, but wanted to live in the City, raise our family in the City. And this is a problem that not only myself but our whole neighborhood faces, that I just want to show her, show children the advantages of having not only a community but a neighborhood. That's why I'm here, to represent a lot of concerned citizens in our neighborhood.
It's an amazing thing. The things that -- I'm from a neighborhood not too far from there and everyone up here that's not from the Northeast -- Kelly, Krajewski and I, and Rizzo and Blondell aren't from the Northeast, but they understand, they've been there, so they know the fabric of the neighborhood. But the thing that makes the neighborhoods great is 12 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I the house prices that are coming up that make it stable, is what is going to be the problem from what you're bringing to us today. Councilman Krajewski has been shooting off about this for at least two months. She's been telling me even longer since she's been back. So we do understand what's happening and why. It's because you've all done such a good job in the neighborhood which makes it a desirable place to live. So the people that are doing these investments, they're not stupid. I mean, they're investing in neighborhoods that they know where they can get a good amount of real estate for a certain amount of money. They could probably buy something worth more money, but the return and the profit, without even getting into the Section 8 part of it, is probably not as great as it is to a stable neighborhood like Mayfair.
But in the way that they're getting these properties, we as a community feel it's fraudulent how they're doing it. 13 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I
We're glad you brought it to us, because what Tom was saying, I had gone through that myself with a an investment property, and you can see that. That's the first question they ask you. It's easy to say yeah, but if you don't live there, nobody really checks.
Well, my wife does real estate closings here in town and she's done closings for homes in our neighborhood, where she'll sit at settlement, not that it's on an agreement of sale, but just as a concerned citizen in our neighborhood and we'll say, Do you plan on living here. They'll ask the seller all about the schools and everything else, the neighborhood, and two days later you see a "for rent" sign.
Councilman, I'd like to make one other point. Councilwoman 14 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I Krajewski was involved in this back in the '90s. The rationale for having to get a variance to legalize a duplex or a triplex is the same rationale that we're dealing with here. Only because it's not a duplex or a triplex, it's the entire house, we can't invoke the Zoning Code. So, I mean, there's got to be some way to address this situation, because the destabilizing issue, the rationale is the same, only it's not carving up the house, it's the entire house. And we're not saying that we don't want to have people have an opportunity. We're not saying we're targeting any particular group. What we're saying is that the long-time residents and homeowners, when you get to a certain tipping point, six, seven, eight of these type properties on a block, that's when the real problems start to set in.
Ma'am? MS. DeLORENTIS: No. I just agree with him very much, and I also want to 15 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I thank Councilwoman Krajewski for all of her help.
Bring the mic closer to yourself. Say your name for the record. MS. DeLORENTIS: I'm Debbie DeLorentis from Mayfair, and I just wanted to say I agree with both gentlemen, and as a senior, we're having a little worry about it. And I also want to thank Councilwoman Krajewski for all of the help she's given us. She's been wonderful, and the CDC, too.
Councilman Kelly has a question. MR. DeLORENTIS: My name is Nick DeLorentis and I live in Mayfair, a Mayfair resident for 47 years and --
Councilman 16 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I Juan Ramos. Nick, this is your wife? MR. DeLORENTIS: Yes.
See, Forkin always has a hot blond -- MR. DeLORENTIS: 50 years next week.
Forkin always has a hot blond with him, so I wasn't sure. I'm glad that you straightened that out. MR. DeLORENTIS: Yes, this is my wife.
Because I know his wife, and I want to make sure. MR. DeLORENTIS: I'm an Italian from Germantown.
Very good. MR. DeLORENTIS: I want to thank Councilman Krajewski. She knows the problems we're having, and the rental signs are going up and we as -- I'm speaking for the community of senior citizens, which supposedly has the largest populus in the City of 17 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I Philadelphia. I read that in the paper somewhere. Whether it's true or not, I'm not sure. But we're very, very concerned. I want to live and die there. I expected that to happen, 1958, and we're just very concerned, and that's why we decided to come down and just speak a little on that subject.
I have, of course, a statement I'd like to make. I certainly agree with Councilwoman Krajewski and her opening statement. I couldn't agree more so, that this is an acute problem we're having. Probably not only in the Northeast but throughout the City, but it is a very acute problem in the Northeast. And, Mr. Forkin, your recommendations here I think are well worth looking into. I think that it's something that I think we can do. I'm looking forward to hearing from Commissioner Solvibile of L&I. 18 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I I want to see what he would say about this or what recommendations he may make, as well as the Law Department. We have to hear from them to see what legal actions we can take to enforce people to do the right thing in their communities and to live with them and live to their standards. This is very, very important. I think that being here on this committee, I think that we're going to start something, and I hope that with the Law Department and with the L&I department and any other departments, we can get involved in this, we will do so. I know that Councilwoman Krajewski is very, very hot on this subject and she's not going to let this lie low for any long time, that's for sure. But, again, I want to thank everyone for coming in and telling us about your concerns about this issue.
Thank you, Councilman. Any other questions? 19 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I (No response.)
Could the next panel come up, please. That would be --
Thanks for the information. It makes it a lot easier. And one thing, Tom, during the summer, keep charting this stuff and let us know through Chris Creelman so we can jump right back on this in September.
Because maybe we'll all put on our shorts and come up to Mayfair in July. I come up for the parade, Tom.
Chairman Mariano, my name is Anthony Naccarato. I am the President of the Tacony Civic Association, and if you're coming over to Mayfair this 20 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I summer, maybe you could stop in and see us right next door.
I have Louis Iatrola with me. He is also Vice-President with the Tacony Civic Association.
Do only Italians live up there? Is there anybody non-Italian? Forkin, he might try to pretend he's Italian, but he's not. Not that that's a bad thing.
We are proudly a multi-ethnic neighborhood and have been for a long time.
Louis will provide the formal testimony today. I just wanted to, by introduction, first thank you. I want to thank the members of the committee for being here today, and I especially want to thank Councilwoman Joan Krajewski, who has staunchly supported our organization, our neighborhood and has been listening to us, 21 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I because this is clearly a problem. Up until a couple of weeks ago, I think Tacony to a lot of people was one end of the bridge and they really didn't know which end was in Philadelphia or New Jersey. As I am sure you're all aware, some very exciting bills have been introduced to create this new River City that we've been talking about, that the Mayor has been talking about, and lo and behold, it's going to start in the wonderfully historic neighborhood of Tacony. There are plans to invest somewhere in the neighborhood of $1.7 billion in new river front communities at Dodge Steel, at the Tacony Army Warehouse and at the Northern Shipping site. And I think this is fantastic. We've been asking for this for years. What's concerning, however, is, we've always -- and Lou will talk about it. The river front was the other side of the tracks. It was the backyard. It was the industrial area. We now have a chance to make it the front yard, to make it the wonderful new extension of our existing river front 22 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I communities. What happens if we empty out these river front communities? Because certainly there are a lot of existing residents who are very interested in upgrading, maybe simplifying, getting rid of their home, getting into a condo. We could be -- Transactional Property Solutions, one of the developers, estimated that possibly 30 percent of the new residents along the river could be from existing river front communities and other communities in Northeast Philadelphia and throughout the City. What happens when we empty out those communities of these good people if we don't have any restrictions at all on how these homes change hands?
Exactly. And we already have problems. I fully concur with our neighbors to the west. They've done a tremendous job in what they've done along Frankford Avenue and their community. I 23 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I applaud them for that. We'll partner with them wherever we can. And, again, not to belabor it, it's an important issue. I'll allow Louis, who in addition to being our Zoning Chairman, Louis is also a registered real estate appraiser and a real estate salesperson. So he has expertise in this issue.
Your point is really pertinent to the issue here, because as I get older, I don't want to cut any grass. So my next place will be a condo, and that's what you want, you want less grief and more -- but what happens to the homes that people like myself leave and what becomes of that, if you don't watch it or if you don't regulate it to a point where you at least have input as civic groups or CDCs? So you're lucky you have a Councilwoman like you do here that's far ahead of her times and thinking of what's going on, and with the help of the other elected officials up there -- I saw all that in the paper. So that River City looks really big. 24 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I So good luck with it.
Thank you, Chairman Mariano. Louis Iatrola. I am the Vice-President and Zoning Chairman of the Tacony Civic Association, and I want to thank you for allowing us to put our concerns on the record today. As Anthony said, I think I have a unique perspective on this issue as a second-generation state-licensed real estate appraiser and salesperson, as well as the Zoning Chairman of the Civic Association and a member of the Advisory Panel for Section 8 housing for the Philadelphia Housing Authority. When I was asked to testify today, I chose to do so because in Tacony, we're witnessing too many examples of the kind of blight that has taken a negative toll on 25 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I nearby communities like Frankford. It seems as if blocks at a time in that community, which traces its roots to pre-Revolutionary War times, were being destroyed. Blight led to pessimism, which led to the flight of the working class and the flight of the middle class. A large number of foreclosures in the late '90s left a lot of vacant properties in areas like Frankford and Olney and even parts of Oxford Circle. What was left was a housing stock ripe for investors who could buy low, perform modest renovations and create rental housing out of homes which for generations had typically been occupied by homeowners, some from generation to generation. By no coincidence, Section 8 units became concentrated, especially in zip codes 19120 and 19124, but that's only a part of the problem, really. Our Housing Authority has made strides with the program in terms of local management, and they're working to establish block limits as well in traditional 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I or depressed neighborhoods. The bigger problem in our mind are absentee landlords who use little or no 5 screening for potential tenants who do not maintain the property and are unresponsive when neighbors, civic groups or even Councilpersons' office try to track them down. When one drives by a tenant-occupied house, the success stories are when the appearances of the property and activity in and around the property are consistent with others on that block. By this I mean the exterior is maintained, the lawn is mowed and family demonstrate a mutual respect for family values as generations have before them. Too often in some communities you may find a rental property with unkempt lawns, with broken screen doors, indoor furniture for outdoor use, cardboard boxes or just plain junk on the porch, loud noise coming from inside, unsupervised children left to roam outdoors past dark, teenagers loitering outside or simply an excessive number of inhabitants within the premises. 27 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I These circumstances are what drive families away from blocks in my community, and usually not to other areas of the City but to New Jersey or the suburbs. This happens when a house becomes occupied by a bad tenant whose social behavior is simply inconsistent with the predominant family already living on that block. Bad tenants and bad landlords induce panic selling, which seems to spread like a cancer. Pride of ownership does not happen by magic. It comes with the ability to obtain and maintain a home and the desire to contribute to a community's well-being. Too often the landlord and tenant have no respect for the community or their neighbors. Although Section 8 has been stigmatized by a percentage of voucher-holders and still does need some reform, it's been said that three or four complaints going into the Housing Authority of problem Section 8 properties turn out not to be Section 8 properties; they're rentals on the private market. Our Housing Authority's local 28 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I management has been quicker to act on citizen complaints, and I've even seen some evictions firsthand. With regard to absentee landlords, there is little oversight because they live nowhere near the property.
They only pay attention if their rent check doesn't arrive on time. Absentee landlords are not too high on maintenance, interior or exterior, because tenants aren't compelled to complain and landlords aren't motivated to dwell on upkeep as long as their check arrives on time. Too often quality of life complaints about nuisance rental problems from neighbors, community organizations and even our Councilperson get ignored. Response by the proper City agency, especially Licenses and Inspections, take too long, and by the time the bad tenant or landlord are properly dealt with, it's too late because it's just another tenant and landlord that have further destabilized that particular block and probably another family from moving. Based on observed patterns, it 29 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I appears that investors have targeted certain blocks as more ripe than others for a predominance of rental housing. Experts have said that where a predominance of rental housing exists on a block, the absence of pride of ownership typically leads to a downward spiral in the quality of life. This investment breeds crime and property values inevitably decline. We live in a community with a diverse housing stock. On some blocks 130-year-old homes co-exist with 50-year-old rowhomes. We have blocks with five single or twin homes and blocks with 85 rowhomes on them. One necessary step in reforming this rental housing crisis is the limiting of taxpayer-funded Section 8 vouchers on a per-block basis. The key to stabilizing communities like ours and those throughout Northeast Philadelphia is not by limiting future rental licenses or trying to legislate the open market. The key is the effective application 30 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I of existing laws, the enforcement upon non-licensed rentals and the education of both landlords and tenants. Making future rentals too cumbersome will effectively take both non-local and local investors, those partly responsible for the recent surge in house prices, out of the market, and while the investors will go elsewhere, who would the City be hurting by reducing demand and possibly lowering values? The answer would be your constituents. With respect to the application of existing laws, ours and other vigilant communities have had a lot of success, thanks to a cooperative Zoning Board. Our Civic Association, with the support of concerned neighbors, have rejected any new multi-family construction and have reduced density by forcing the conversion of illegal multi-family properties back to single family. But the problem lies in getting the property and the owner to the Zoning Board. As a Civic Association, we cannot be the rental police and be expected to have the 31 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I resources to go after the many illegal units that plague our community. While we report many suspected or known illegal multi-family conversions through the L&I website or through Councilwoman Krajewski's office, very infrequently do we see enforcement through the scheduling of a ZBA hearing, and that's with respect to multi-family properties and illegal conversions. With regard to single-family rentals as well as multi-family, there must be local management for the operation to be effectively integrated into the community. Rental licenses must mandate local management, forcing greater oversight on non-local investors. The issuance of a rental license should trigger a series of safeguards in the form of mandatory compliance checklists for landlords, including maintenance, housing and fire code items, and the presence of lead paint or asbestos. Periodic or annual inspections should be made for all rental license-holders to ensure at least the exterior has been 32 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I adequately maintained. If this creates an added layer at the Department of L&I, then it is money well spent, because it is investment in the future of our City as a stronghold for middle-class and working-class families.
If an additional tax needs to be imposed for more stringent monitoring, it would be justified by the long-term benefit of keeping neighborhoods stable and families living in the City. Lastly, if a prospective tenant would like the privilege of renting a home in a stable neighborhood and if a landlord wishes to reap the benefits of holding a rental license, then both should be required to attend a mandatory training class, which would reinforce the importance of living up to the social mores and codes of conduct that are prevalent in that stable neighborhood. They should become familiar with code compliance with local laws and maintenance requirements, as well as the consequences of not responding to the community. In conclusion, to reiterate what Anthony said, it's evident that we currently 33 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I have a system where landlords and tenants are running amuck, with little oversight and a City too overburdened to stay on top of this rapidly escalating problem. In this age of interest-only loans, home buyers getting more house than they can afford and investors biting off more than they can chew, safeguards need to be implemented now before another wave of potential foreclosures creates a buyer's market. If this happens without safeguards in place and without enforcement, combined with influx of proposed housing along our Delaware River in Tacony, market forces would create a recipe for tenant-dominated housing throughout our original community. While historically Tacony residents have referred to our industrial blight as the other side of the tracks, it could be that some day the more affluent condo owners on the Delaware River will view the existing historic Tacony as the other side of the tracks, never integrating the new developments with our original town and giving little hope to the 34 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I resurgence of Longshore and Torresdale Avenues as becoming a viable commercial district. With better municipal oversight, stepped-up enforcement and greater outreach to landlords and tenants, a cure can be found for the rental housing crisis that has come to impact Northeast Philadelphia. By doing so, the well-being of the City as a town of neighborhoods would be ensured on a number of levels. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to go on the record with our concerns.
Thanks. Let me ask you this question -- and, Tom, if you guys can answer this, you can say it. You may have done this. When these houses are being bought -- because I know I've done it in Juniata. Every summer I try to see what's going on in different neighborhoods, especially Juniata because that's where I live, but is there one name buying a lot of these houses or are they all different names? 35 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I Is there one name buying two or three or is it somebody buying and 20, or is it all 4 different names? Do you see the same name a 5 lot? 6
You do have people buying handfuls of properties. I don't know about 20 or 30. I know over time, especially with regard to the Section 8 crisis, which we hope is past us, but we don't know, there was a lot more of that. I think with this crisis that's going on here, we just got a lot of New York money coming down. And I've only been involved in about a half -- I've been selling real estate for about six months and I've sold six homes, and three of those homes were to investors and three were to homeowners. And from my own experience, they were three different investors, but they were all from the New York area.
So 36 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I something is in the pipeline.
It's limited experience, but that's what I've got so far. But what people in the industry tell me is that Philadelphia is viewed as quite a bargain in terms of comparison to Washington or New York, and that's why the investments are appealing here.
Because I will say this: What happened in Juniata, which is a little bit different what happened there because of the kinds of houses and the age, Juniata had a lot of old houses -- like when I say "old," '20s, 1930, '40s. Then they built new ones where I grew up down near McCauley Playground in the late '50s, '60s and that was it. Then it changes real quick. The bottom near Erie Avenue and out from Hunting Park up, it's a little bit different because homes are a little newer, but what happened there was, when the people left in the first wave, a lot of people that came in and bought the houses were helped by real estate people and they weren't that tough with like -- we're 37 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I talking about then $50,000, $60,000 houses. You had to make a certain amount of income to afford that kind of house. So they would stretch the facts. I wouldn't say they lied, if the wife made so much under the table baby-sitting or the guy fixed cars. And what happened was, three years later, the real estate people did it. Intentionally or not, they did it. I don't think they got together and conspired to do it, but they just did their job and tried to sell houses, because people wanted out. They wanted to move. When they did that, two, three years later she can't baby-sit, he can't fix cars. Now all the sudden, banks have it. There's 100 houses I'm concerned about. 40 of them belong to different banks. And the banks aren't local banks and they're not that interested in a house on I Street, on 3900 I Street, if it's boarded up for six months, seven months. Now, it's close enough to Erie Avenue where you never quite know what can happen there. I mean, there's different 38 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I organizations that know how to work around a law. I think what's happening up there is a little bit of that. Now, the people that stuck to it in Juniata, that if they had left, they got $40,000 for the house, now their house is worth $100,000. And they were like Michael Maynard, who works for L&I, his mom, Mrs. Maynard, stayed on the 4400 block on Walnut Street. Her house, she could have probably got 50. Now it's worth 100. Now, she's happy as heck. She was never leaving. Her husband passed away. Her kids grew up. But you don't see the same reinvestment from the children of the people that live there. Her children don't live there. They live in Mayfair and Somerton. So we got a lot of -- a lot of people came from New York, and at that point, a lot of people were Latino and it added a different flavor of the culture. But what I think is happening in there, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's more of a money kind of investment. They never 39 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I have any intentions of living there. They just see it as a place where I can put $150,000 for a house. Is that a good figure? To buy a house in Mayfair and maybe in five, six years, I can get a real good return for my money for $150,000?
We're concerned about foreclosures, because we don't know how an investor can pay $150,000 for a rowhouse, turn around and rent it out for $900 a month --
Are they going for that much, 150? I'm just speculating. Yeah.
There are parts of Mayfair you can get 250 and then 40 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I places where you can get 1,200, 1,300 a month.
-- phenomena of this most recent investor craze, if you want to call it that, and it is a New York-driven investor, they're coming with a significant amount of money to put down on the property. Traditionally if you're going to buy a property, you're just recently married, maybe you have a kid, you're looking to put as little money down as possible, ten percent.
Right. Some of these properties are being purchased with as much as 40 and 50 percent down, and what that does is, it relieves the pressure from a mortgage standpoint to allow some of those numbers to fly. 41 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I Lou made, again, a very interesting comment. We have to be, to a certain extent, careful not to bite the hand that feeds, because the investor interest is fueling the recent upsurge in property values, to a certain extent. So you can't clamp it. You can't stop it. You have to control it. You have to find better ways with the Department of L&I. I was at the hearings just, I think, last week or the week before --
Not to interrupt you, Councilwoman Brown is saying it's a very thin line and what you need is -- what you're asking for is some safeguards just so you can --
The recent hearings regarding the billboard industry. And, finally, hey, we need to kind of reel this in, and through some increases in fees, we're going to create some department or a wing inside of L&I to kind of hopefully hit that specifically. I think that's what we're talking 42 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I about here, is, this is enough of a problem that there needs to be some real concerted attempts to --
I know you have our attention, and listen, summer is summer when you have a City Councilman. We might be out of session, but we're working just as hard. The At-Large people will tell you, they're working the City all that hard. You'll see everybody to my left and my right up there and the At-Large people. Councilman Krajewski is thinking about a task force. I think that's a good idea. We'll continue with this hearing. When we come back in September, maybe we can like meet monthly, meet once a month or something, on some non-formal way. Maybe we can just come up and meet up there so you can show us things, where this is happening. It's a luxury we have in the summer that we don't have right now because we're under a busy schedule to get everything done by Thursday. But I hear what you're saying and she does, and I think Councilman Rizzo has a 43 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I question for you, if that's all right.
Have you noticed any trend? I mean, your mind races when you discuss this issue. Is there some long-term plan these investors have? Do they plan on getting -- I don't understand your industry, but do you think that they're just renting these short term until something turns around and then plan to put them on the market for sale? Is it more lucrative to rent with the tax code? What do you think is coming a couple years from now? Do you think we're going to see a lot of these homes converted to actual ownership?
If they go on the market and depending on market forces, they may just sell to another investor.
If the interest rate goes back up and they can't make the payments, it will be what happened 10, 15 years ago, some of them people are going to lose their houses. They'd be stupid to lose a $150,000 house that they put $40,000 on. You'd have to really be stupid to do that. 44 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I
But they are banking on this appreciation, I think, and they're hoping there is no housing bubble and that these values will continue to come up and when it is -- when it comes time to sell, they will still sell at a profit. I think they're all banking on that, whether or not that's going to happen.
Councilman, can we get Commissioner Solvibile up here? I got to be out of here like sometime around 3 o'clock to go to a doctor's appointment. We can run this without me. She can run this, but we want to keep it as a work in progress, and that's not a BS story. Forkin knows me. You guys know me. We'll keep doing this and we'll come up there and check it out, but she can hang until 3:30, too, but I think we got to hear what the Commissioner has to say, so if you have something --
Councilman, if I can just maybe give you the theory a lot of people have in your question in regards to 45 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I people that are buying these homes. It's not one person buying or 30. What we in the 4 neighborhood feel is happening is, these 5 people that are going to settlement and buying 6 these homes are just pawns for a big 7 investment group. Okay? 8 Why we want stronger rules and 9 regulations from City Council and L&I is 10 because that will start a paper trail back to 11 where this pool of money is. Myself and a lot 12 of my neighbors feel that the pool consists of 13 a lot of cash that people need to get rid of 14 because -- go ahead. 15
No. I 16 know where you're going with this and there's 17 nothing the matter with coming to this country 18 and pooling money. Some ethnic groups do 19 that, without me saying anything wrong about 20 any ethnic group. They don't use banks, and they do it for a reason. The ethnic group that I belong to doesn't do it, and when they do, it's a whole other story if your name ends in a vowel that we don't want to get into.
I know what you're saying. That's really hard to prove. I mean, really hard to prove, but it's always been done. But now the tax codes and -- Councilman Rizzo and I have this conversation once a week about this stuff. It's hard to say what I want to say without -- but it's been done. The Italians did it. Okay? I can say that because I'm part Italian. The Irish did it. I'm part Italian. I'm sure every ethnic group has done it. But what you're saying is -- you know, it's hard to prove.
So you have to prove that for us. It's hard for us -- I can see it. I mean, I can see it, because I know what you're talking about and I know that particular ethnic group does that, because they're the newest immigrants. You don't see a lot of Italian or Irish immigrants now. You see a lot of immigrants that you see now, and where they come from, banks aren't 47 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I real solvent and it works that way. That's something that we would have to prove some way. I don't know how. Give us some time to work on that. Let's let the Commissioner and Otis let us know what they have from L&I when you guys are done.
I just want to say, just to be extremely clear, Tacony is here about Tacony and about the preservation of our neighborhood. I wasn't kidding when I said we are a multi-ethnic neighborhood. We have been integrated from the Civil War. My next-door neighbors are recent immigrants from China. They're very nice people. They're owner-occupied, live in their home, have difficulty with the language, have young children that are in the public school. This is not about that. This is not about that.
We want anybody who wants to live in our neighborhood, who has the ability to live in our neighborhood and 48 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I who will be a contributing citizen to our neighborhood to live in our neighborhood. I just want to be clear.
And, Councilman, my neighbor is Asian-American, has been there 30 years. But the problem that, like I said, a lot of us have is not who is moving into the neighborhood but how they're getting there.
You got to have somebody to get to, is what -- Commissioner.
Now, this is R. Solvibile, not D. Solvibile, just so everyone knows. D. Solvibile was his late great father. Councilman Krajewski wants to ask you a question, Commissioner.
Good afternoon, Commissioner. 49 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Good afternoon, Councilwoman.
I want to thank you for all the assistance that you've been giving our office. I just want to ask one question. What has been done since our last meeting with L&I regarding this problem? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Councilwoman, excuse me for reading off my Blackberry.
Can you speak up a little. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: My name is Robert Solvibile, Acting Commissioner of Licensing and Inspections, and excuse me for reading off my Blackberry, but I forgot my paperwork, one part of it, and I had them e-mail it to me. We had a total number of complaints working with your office of 62 since a meeting about a month ago in the Mayfair section where after talking with you that day, we've committed to working with your office and 50 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I doing what we have to do to make all the inspections that are necessary to determine if people can legally rent property in this Mayfair section. We took a total of 62 complaints from your office. We issued 47 violations. The violations that we issued, 36 for not having a rental license and more than likely not having a business privilege license also, which is one of the requirements to do business in Philadelphia. You need a business privilege license, and to rent property, you need a rental license.
Bob, they're real easy to get, right? You just go down -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: You can do it online.
Business privilege, $250, that's it, for life? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Business privilege license, Councilman, you can do online.
What's 51 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I that, 250? COMMISSIONER SOLIVIBLE: 250. A rental license is $30 per unit.
Online for that, too? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: You can download the form online, mail it. You don't have to come into us. Number of vacant --
Because I heard people don't want to go over the Municipal Services Building because of some rat problem that I read about in the paper, the rodents or something. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Caused by some expediters, I'm told, but I don't know about that.
I told you I'd give you a lead-in for that. No eating food over the MSB. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: There are also other complaints. Of the 62, ten were -- we found the houses to be vacant with no one living there and we found one with 52 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I illegal construction, where they're doing work without a permit, and we think, we're not sure, a duplex they were trying to convert it to, but we put a stop work order on it and wrote a violation. Unfounded complaints, which means they were single-family owner-occupied properties, was and -- I'm sorry; was nine, 10 and three of the 12 did have in fact a rental 11 license, and we could not get into three of 12 the properties. Councilwoman, I have a list, if you want to share that with the committee, of the properties we did inspect and the results of the inspections, and Mr. Haigler was kind enough to give me a list of the stats that I just read off if the committee wants to see it.
I don't know whether you have the answer to this or not, Commissioner, but why is it not possible to raise the rental license fees for either single-family dwellings or single-family homes? 53 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I'm not sure that it's not possible. I believe, and I'm not positive, that it would take Council to raise the fee. And I'm not at all sure. I'm going to ask Mr. Haigler to comment on that for me.
Good day. I'm Otis Haigler, Jr., Director of Legislative Affairs for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. As far as the fee itself, there may not be a problem with raising the fee in general, but since all -- our fee structure is set up based on a per unit.
Well, our fee is general. Our fees are general. It applies to all properties, regardless of whether it's in state, out of state, occupants. We set up our fees based on what we do administratively to enforce the Code. Our fees have recently been raised back in, I believe it was, 2002 or 2003. 54 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I
I was told that out-of-town investors, that they wouldn't have to pay that. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Well, I think that what we could do, Councilwoman --
Excuse me. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I'm sorry to interrupt, but I think what we could do is, the Code where you have a multi-family dwelling or a rooming unit and you're out of town calls for a Philadelphia agent, someone in Philadelphia. And I believe one of the witnesses testified, and it makes a lot of sense, that if we have to deal with somebody from New York, even to the point where we want to take them to court, we can't serve papers on them because they're in New York. We can't force them to come to court, but if we could require that if you're an out-of-town investor for any kind of a property in Philadelphia, you get an agent in Philadelphia. We'd probably be a lot more successful and knowing how to reach the landlords, the type of 55 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I complaints, like the nuisance type of complaints, better be able to manage and deal with it. I think that's something we can do rather easily with Council's passing that ordinance.
One other thing I've noticed, I believe it was the year '02 where I introduced a bill in Council where they no longer can use the P.O. box number but the address itself. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We have a policy --
But I understand that there are some that aren't doing it, but there are some that are still giving the P.O. box numbers. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We have a policy, Councilwoman, that you cannot use P.O. boxes, because we can't find you with a P.O. box. So it's not acceptable to use a P.O. box with us.
So, therefore, they wouldn't have a license if 56 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I they don't give their address? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We won't give them a license without an address.
That's good to know. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Because from the tax roles, the purpose of the business privilege license obviously is to make sure that they're registered also at the same time we ensure that they get a license -- they register with the Revenue Department and they get a tax I.D. number, and that's the whole thing, is to be able to get somebody into the system and be able to notify them, and you need an address to find somebody. And it's a policy that's written that we can provide to you that is in fact a policy. If you try to get a license with a P.O. box, you're not going to get it.
57 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I Councilman Ramos.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for providing us with this list and thank you all for the testimony that you're providing this afternoon to this very important subject. In this list that you just gave us, the addresses that you gave violations to, were you able to get them to the owner or did a tenant end up with a copy of the violation notice? COMMISSIONER SOLIVIBLE: We mail it to the address it's registered with the BRT, Board of Revision of Taxes. So hopefully the owner will give us their right address of where to notify them to.
What kind of response did you get? They were monetary fines, right? It just wasn't a notice to -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We sent the violation notices. We've been working on this, as I stated, with the Councilwoman's office for about a month now. 58 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I We're getting complaints. We didn't get them all a month ago. We've been working on them. It's been my -- it's my goal, because it's easier for the community to participate, to reinspect the houses all at the same time. We normally -- we gave them 30 days to comply. We're going to reinspect them all, package them together and ask for a court action all at the same time. We're going to send them to municipal court if they do not comply and get the rental license, and this way, the community can participate with us and the judge and/or whoever has the hearing can get a flavor for what the community's concerns are with the properties.
Yes. Your approach then to the concern of the good people of Tacony and the Councilwoman that represents that district, Councilwoman Krajewski, is that you want to make sure that all codes are up to date and if there's any violations of any sort, that -- does that include the Fire Code and the whole works, fire detectors? All of that is being done? 59 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Exactly. I asked for the record. There is no 4 law in fact against having a rental property. If you do choose to rent your property, there are some codes that come into play that you must abide by. Number one is, as I stated, you must have a business privilege license. Number two, you must have a rental license to rent the unit. Number three, if you have more than three unrelated people living there, you then need to go to Zoning, three people not related by blood. It does not mean if a family obviously of five, they're related, they can live there, but myself, you and Otis and Councilman Rizzo could not live in a property without going to Zoning, because you're more than three unrelated. And if you get to having five or more unrelated people living there, that becomes a rooming house. They're the only conditions that really we place on the rental property.
So you're hitting it hard on your charge as head of L&I 60 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I and you're working with the district Councilperson, which means that you're looking out for those unscrupulous landlords, right, that do operate in this City, whether they come from other cities or are homegrown folks? I think that I'm glad that Councilwoman Krajewski went and tackled this like she tackles everything in her neighborhood, and it seems like there is some concentrated effort because of community involvement in trying to make sure that this area of town has not depreciated and that it continues to be the neighborhood that we know so much about. Someone mentioned that the rentals are around the 900 mark, $900 mark. Let me just tell you something. I cannot afford, maybe because of -- the way my salary has been disclosed, you might think that I can afford it. I'd have a hard time paying $900, plus all the other stuff to live a regular life. I suspect that if you're paying $900 a month, right, that you probably have a decent job or have a few jobs, maybe two or 61 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I three jobs to pay at least your rental fee, that the tenants in these addresses -- and I was just around Horrocks Street this past Saturday right around the corner from there -- that you probably are having -- you're probably getting folks that are working people that with community involvement, if you see them maybe taking out their trash a couple days before trash day, pulling their coat on it, letting them know that you don't do that and you can get fined for that. I think that community involvement is the right way to go here, and you guys are apparently doing a very good job. And also that the City has now stepped in, and I think that this is an issue that where you have to be communities that are organized -- I tell people that go up in arms on gentrification and I lived in an area that was gentrified a bunch of years ago, and I tell folks that things have changed a lot, because now we have -- while there were only a few community organizations 30 years ago, now we have an abundance of community organizations. 62 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I It's very difficult to go into the neighborhood of Joan Krajewski and try to gentrify or try to do something that's going to depreciate her neighborhood or your neighborhood that you represent. So the more community involvement you have, the more government action. I think that these things can be corrected.
Thank you. I'd like to ask one more question. Commissioner, would it be possible to create an additional tax of some sort to fund a rental housing unit that would cover the cost of the investigation and/or researching of these rental houses? Would this be similar to the bill that we just passed in Council regarding the billboards? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I believe the rental fee of $30 does fund the inspectors that we have in L&I who make the inspections in rental units.
But have a rental housing unit. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Well, 63 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I we already have that and we have that in the Housing Division of License and Inspections at 990 Spring Garden under Deputy Commissioner Verdi. We have roughly, I'm guessing, about 40, maybe 45 housing and fire inspectors, plus we have three inspectors in the CLIP area that are funded partially with the revenues that we use to generate our -- to fund our existence, is the rental license that we now charge people $30 for. So I'm not sure of the answer about a special --
Well, short of finding additional funding to create this rental housing unit, are there any suggestions of what we can do about this particular problem here? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I have committed to meeting with you, as you know, that we'll work with your office and do what we need to do to have all the inspections made and to make sure that the people who are in fact renting in the City of Philadelphia, period -- but we will write the violations where people are not renting with -- or not 64 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I getting the business privilege license and the rental license, and at some point in time, after non-compliance, there's always, I guess, equity court where we can have a judge order an owner to do something. We will go the full route what it takes to enforce -- to get these properties legal and licensed and to make sure that the exterior conditions are kept the way they should be. I believe one of the gentlemen mentioned if you're a renter, you might not cut your grass. Well, I think that maybe renters just need to know that you're supposed to cut your grass. They're not used to that. And I think that by working -- it seems like -- I know Mayfair -- working together, my suggestion would be working with the rental people there, they'll learn.
I'd like to -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: And as far as License and Inspections, we're committed to do all we need to do to work with your office and any Council office that has a 65 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I problem to have the inspections made and the violations written and to start the enforcement so the owners comply with the violation.
Would you suggest I appoint a task force? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We will be more than happy to work with you. I will volunteer my personal time to work on a task force with you and your office, and I'm sure that the Managing Director's office would be --
hours a 15 day, your personal time? 16 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: It's 17 about 24-hour-a-day job. 18
Well, 19 he does give 24 hours a day. 20 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: When I 21 started, I didn't have any gray hair and look 22 at me now. 23
We can 24 call you at 11 o'clock and -- COMMISSIONER SOLIVIBLE: The 66 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I phone always rings, Councilman.
But I want to thank you again, because you've really been a big help to us, and I will get on appointing a task force with some of the members that are here today, because it's very essential that we do something about this big, big major problem in our neighborhoods. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: As I said at the community meeting, if we work together, we will solve the problem. If we don't, we won't. We need to work together to solve the problem.
Councilman Rizzo wants to ask a question, but let me just say this before he does. Looking at this list, and I know Chris Creelman and the Councilman went over this stuff, a lot of these are rental people just don't apply for rental licenses. And it's amazing just glancing at it, when you look down here, I was looking at this one, they're all the same street. So there's seven or eight people in the same street renting houses. That's 67 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I bizarre. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: It's very telling. That's why I put the addresses in and not just the stats.
I'm looking at Glenview Street, 3023, 36, 38, 40, 42. That's almost the whole side of the block. A couple of them were no violations, but some of them were rental licenses. Something is going on. Longshore Street. Something is definitely going on. COMMISSIONER SOLIVIBLE: Also, I think, Councilman, that if everybody that should in the City gets their rental license, it will more than pay for the effort we put into it and the revenues that would increase that the Department would receive and the tax --
Is there a penalty for not getting it when you get caught? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: The ultimate penalty, we could in fact tell the tenant that the owner of the property is not 68 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I legally able to collect rent in the City of Philadelphia.
So you can live there for free. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: But the law would state that you need to put the money into escrow, and I don't know at this point if that would be something that we should do.
Should we have an amnesty and remind people that if you're renting the place out, there is a rental license and a business privilege? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: At the meeting in Mayfair, I stated that very strongly, and from what I just said now, and I'll say it again, to legally rent property in the City of Philadelphia or to do business in Philadelphia or to collect rent in the City of Philadelphia, you need a business privilege license and you must have a rental license.
Is there a possibility that in order to limit the number of rental properties in the 69 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I neighborhood, that we can implement legislation? I mean, you hit the point -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I believe someone is here from the Law Department. I don't know that that's a question that I can answer.
Thank you. Commissioner, my colleague just made a good observation. If you're paying $900 a month, you want a property that hopefully looks decent, the grass is cut. And I know there's some issues between Streets Department and L&I who is responsible for what, because we had Streets issue some violations for tall grass. So there's some confusion. My question specifically, if you own a home and you want to rent it, does that home have to be any different because it's a rental property than if it were a -- does it have to have fire extinguishers, does it have to have 70 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I smoke detectors? Is it a different house when it's a rental property than when it is occupied by the owner? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: It does need smoke detectors. A single-family -- now, we're talking single-family house only here?
Yes. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: They need smoke detectors.
I don't see any violation on that. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I'll take the leap of faith that most of these properties we were not able to get in, because it's a working neighborhood, so our inspectors are there during the day. But if they did get in, there have been smoke detectors. 71 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I Now, we had a program with the Fire Department where we go into a property, whether it's owner-occupied or tenant-occupied, and there's no smoke detectors, we will get their name and address and forward that to the Fire Department and they will go there and install smoke detectors. So L&I and Fire have been working on that for a long time now. It's a very good program for people.
I think I figured it out. I know that there's -- let's say in Center City, these three apartment homes. You require fixed hard-wired alarm systems. Don't you think maybe this task force should look at a single-family rented home like we would any other rental property? That a person moves into a home, all of the sudden they have to assume the responsibilities of making sure that there's a smoke detector battery, all of that stuff. Why shouldn't rental properties, single family, come under the same stringent requirements that, say, a home that's got 72 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I three apartments in it in Center City? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: New construction, to partially answer that question, Councilman, with new construction, you have to have hard-wired smoke in single family, multi-family. The alarm system is a little bit different in single family, but it must be a hard-wired smoke detection. And the property maintenance code is not retroactive. The only retroactive code we have is in fact the Fire Code, where if that was changed and all homes had to be hard-wired. But I would guess that would be an extreme burden on the citizens of Philadelphia with the age of our City. If every house had to be hard-wired, that would be --
But if this is a problem that's just starting to grow, why couldn't it include at a certain date, January 1, 2006 going forward, that all rental properties have X, Y, Z? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: If an ordinance was passed, it could probably be done, but the correct code is the Fire Code. 73 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I
My point being is that a rental property is a rental property. People don't assume responsibility when you go into a rental property. And if there's smoke detectors in these places, do your inspectors physically check to see if they operate? COMMISSIONER SOLIVIBLE: Oh, yes. I mean, that's the old age -- when I started being in cellars in my inspection area, we used to have the old heat and I smoked, unfortunately, and you put the lighter to the smoke detection to make sure the alarm would go off. So that's part of the requirement of the inspection, that there's an alarm there, you want to hear it ring.
Councilman, many, many, many years ago when I started my career with the City and started my career with L&I, I started my career in a program in L&I where we went door to door with a housing inspector. We went door to door checking for rental properties, and the requirement was that we would go in and we would check for the smoke 74 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I detector to make sure that smoke detectors were present in the property and we would verify that the detectors worked. If they did not work, we would write a violation against, in that case, if it was battery issue, it would be the tenant that would be responsible for battery. The owner was responsible for making sure the device was there. And we would write the violation and we would follow up to make sure that that detector was working, because it is an important issue. It's a life safety issue. We do take that seriously.
Smoke detector technology has changed. In rental properties, many times people remove the battery because they false -- or somebody needs a battery, a nine-volt battery for their radio, for their radio player. I just was shown a smoke detector that has the battery actually built into it. It's encased into the unit and it lasts for ten years.
Lithium batteries. 75 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I bought one.
We do in certain areas. For day cares, day care centers, those types of batteries are required. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: It would in fact take for single-family house a code change. That's actually a great idea, Councilman, the lithium battery ten-year. Absolutely great idea.
You can't see it. It's kind of like molded actually into the -- you can't take the battery out because it's part -- and in ten years, the manufacturer says that you should throw the detector away and replace it, because even a regular smoke detector, from what I read, after years of being exposed to the elements loses its sensitivity and should be discarded.
So I think we ought to look at that. 76 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I think the task force can look at that, because it's --
I think honestly there's not enough regulation over these rental units. We're making it too easy for people to do what they're doing. And I don't mean to use regulation to kind of whip people into line, but I can tell you one thing, that people that rent a property aren't going to care about the safety of it. And I know you can't rent a place at the shore for the weekend, there's fire extinguishers, there's the badge on the front window saying that this is a licensed rental property. And I don't particularly subscribe to overregulation, but I think it's underregulated, this whole process. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I think that when you come to public safety, you really should have the proper regulation, because as we're fond of saying in the Department, we have the best fire in the nation, in the world, but it's L&I's job to 77 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I make sure you get out of the building safely.
Again, I want to tell you, I think you guys work hard. If I've never once -- I've tracked you down Saturday, Sunday, holidays, and I appreciate your good work, because I understand what prevention is all about. COMMISSIONER SOLIVIBLE: Thank you.
Thank you, Councilman. I want to thank all of you, but I will be calling on you in September to come back again and to give us the answers to a lot of questions that we're going to have in September. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We'll be more than happy to work with you over the summer.
In the meantime, I will be appointing a task force and they'll have something to say as well. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I'll 78 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I be more than happy to work with you.
I thank you, Commissioner. I believe we have one more person that would like to testify and I believe it's Phyllis Martino. Good afternoon.
Good afternoon. I'm Phyllis Martino. I'm on the staff of Impact Services Corporation and we are in Councilman Mariano's district, and we're working on a comprehensive community development plan for the area around Kensington and Allegheny. It's a very different area from Mayfair and from Tacony in that there are many, many renters. The number has grown substantially over the last 15 years and there are a lot of people that are low income enough there that they really are not in a position to buy. So we've had people there that say, You can be a good renter, and I think we need to perhaps balance things a little bit by noting that there are people and that everyone 79 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I in the City can't afford to buy. So we are in support of this resolution and we very much believe that there should be a committee on -- a rental housing unit in L&I, because one of the issues in our neighborhood is, people will rent houses they don't even own. They'll just slap a lock on it, get people in there and start charging them rents. So the idea of needing to regulate rental housing in our community is very, very different than the issues that you're experiencing in Mayfair and in Tacony. But the need for additional regulation is very, very apparent. And being someone who does have a rental property at the shore, I can tell you that all the things that Tom Forkin listed, inspecting, monitoring and enforcing the code violations, special window stickers, hugely helpful, very inexpensive. It documents whether or not the place is a rental property. It's very cheap. If they don't pay, they don't have a sticker, there's a complaint against the property. It's really 80 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I clear. If tenants go in there and they don't see a sticker on their front window, they know that their person isn't legally able to rent to them. So I think some of the simple suggestions that were put forth by Mayfair CDC could be implemented in Philadelphia to very good effect. I think they work elsewhere, and we would welcome those sorts of recommendations being implemented in the City. They could probably be financed with the fees generated by more people paying what they should.
I believe now we'll recess our hearings to the 81 6/14/05 - Resolution 050349 - L&I call of the Chair. And I want to thank you all for taking time out. We will be in touch with you regarding the next hearing. (Committee on Licenses and Inspections concluded at 3:05 p.m.) - - - 82 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on June 14, 2005, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)