COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:30 a.m. - - - - BILL 040764 - an ordinance amending Title 9 of the Philadelphia Code entitled, "Regulation of Businesses, Trades and Professions," by adding a section to prohibit the sale of certain motor vehicles, all under certain terms and conditions. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD MARIANO, Chair COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY - - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 I N D E X BILL 040764 MICHAEL BRADY, Police Dept........... OTIS HAIGLER, JR., L&I............... 17 DOMINIC VERDI, L&I................... 20 DAVID VERDI, L&I..................... 21 ROBERT SOLVIBILE, L&I Commissioner... 24 CARL PRIMAVERA, ESQ., Pep Boys....... 28 CARMEN SOUSA......................... 31 CANDIDO SILVA........................ 37 3 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788
I'm going to bring this Committee hearing to order. I have myself, Councilman Mariano. To my right is Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown. Councilman Ramos and Councilman Rizzo and some other people are on their way, but we have enough to start. John, would you read the bill? First, let me say we're going to hear testimony on Bill No. 040764. We're going to hold Councilman Clarke's bill at his request, 040788. The Clerk will now read Bill 040764.
Bill 040764, an ordinance amending Title 9 of the Philadelphia Code entitled, "Regulation of Businesses, Trades and Professions," by adding a section 19 to prohibit the sale of certain motor vehicles, all under certain terms and conditions.
Thank you, John. The first panel, Lieutenant Michael Brady. 4 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 From L&I, Otis, Deputy Commissioner Verdi, Commissioner Solvibile, if you want to come up. Dave Perri. LIEUTENANT BRADY: Good morning, Chairman Mariano and other Members of the Committee of Licenses and Inspections. My name is Lieutenant Michael Brady. I'm assigned to the Center City District located at 10th and Filbert Streets. I'm here to represent Police Commissioner Johnson and the Philadelphia Police Department. First, Police Commissioner Johnson would like me to extend his sincere gratitude for allowing the Police Department to testify on this important legislation to prohibit the sale of motorized scooters, under certain conditions. This amendment will significantly and dramatically impact on the safety of all the citizens of Philadelphia, including both pedestrians and motorists. As you all know, the primary objective of the Philadelphia Police Department is to protect life and property. To that end, the Philadelphia Police 5 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 Department continues to police the streets of Philadelphia in efforts to ensure that these illegally operated motor scooters are taken off the streets permanently. Over the last months, the Police 7 Department has confiscated and impounded 448 8 motorized scooters or similar-type vehicles. 9 The Pennsylvania Department of Transportation 10 is of the opinion that the use of motorized 11 scooters similar to the Phantom, Zappy and the 12 California Sport Go-Ped on the highways of this Commonwealth is illegal, and the use of these vehicles are clearly and inherently dangerous. The hazardous nature of the motorized scooter is recognized by the Consumer Product Safety Commission. The Consumer Product Safety Commission reported that in 1999, there were 1,330 emergency room 21 treated injuries related to the use of these motorized scooters. In 2000, the number of reported injuries associated with the scooters climbed to 4,390. For the first nine months of 2001, which is the last time the Consumer 6 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 Product Safety Commission published a report on injuries associated with the scooters, there were already 2,870 injuries reported, and still three months to go. Further, the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation also issued a legal opinion stating that it is unlawful to operate a motorized scooter on the highway, roadway or sidewalk in this Commonwealth, and that these vehicles are unsafe. As a result of the inherently dangerous nature of the motorized scooter, coupled with the inability of anyone to legally operate them on the streets, roadways, highways or the sidewalks in the City of Philadelphia, legislation banning the sale of these motorized scooters within the City of Philadelphia would significantly further the public safety of the citizens of the City. This concludes my testimony. Once again, thank you for allowing the Police Department an opportunity to voice its opinion on this very important and significant piece of legislation. At this time, I would be 7 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you, Lieutenant. Lieutenant, your numbers, is that written down so we can have those? LIEUTENANT BRADY: Yes.
Those numbers are great. That's the first time I've actually heard hard numbers. LIEUTENANT BRADY: That's coming from the State, the assistant counsel in charge of the Motor Vehicle Section in the State of Pennsylvania.
You and I had a conversation before this started about Inspector Boyle. I think that's a story worth sharing with this Committee. Inspector Boyle and the after party at the Latino Day parade, could you explain that? LIEUTENANT BRADY: I was assigned as the supervisor for the bike detail. I understand that the inspector tried to stop one of the gentlemen and he tried to run him down with the scooter. That's basically what 8 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 I know.
The inspector came back from a six-month tour of Iraq without a scratch on him. At the after-party for the Latino Day parade -- and believe me, this isn't any disparage to the Latino Day parade. It could have been any parade -- not even a parade. It was the after-party up American Street. He told me he tried to stop -- it wasn't a youth, it was an adult. He grabbed the guy, but the guy ran into him on the bike and broke his knee. LIEUTENANT BRADY: I didn't know he was seriously injured. If you're familiar with the police barricade trucks, what they look like and how large they are, I do know at least one of them was full of these scooters confiscated from that event.
Do you know what we're doing with these scooters when we confiscate them? We're destroying them, I hope, right? LIEUTENANT BRADY: They're going to 9 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 the impound lot down in South Philadelphia near the airport. Those who are willing to come claim them and pay the fines to get them back, they come with hopefully some sort of bill of sale. If they don't have a bill of sale, they have to get some sort of notarized affidavit. They only basically cost $300 or $400, and most people don't come claim them. They just probably go out and buy another one. Within the specified period of time, I believe it's after 30 or 45 days -- I'm not sure exactly -- the plastic is removed and all the graphics from the vehicle. The plastic is separated from the metal and that is taken away and disposed of. The metal itself is sold for scrap an then the City is reimbursed.
One of my biggest fears is that they just keep getting recycled and recycled. I got a letter from a very prominent attorney in Philadelphia that is willing to buy every one of these that the Police Department confiscates. He's obviously going to take them to some other municipality and 10 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 resell them until they catch on. I called him and said it's nothing I want to be involved in. These things are really, really bad. These are just one of those quality-of-life issues, and I'm sure you agree with me. We throw that word around, but these are really dangerous. I goes back to the ATVs. We also spoke about a place down here on 11th Street that I saw last night that I couldn't believe. On 11th Street between Market and Chestnut, there's a store that probably sold stereos. I think one of the deputy commissioners told me he shut them down for selling knives and starter pistols a couple years ago. Are we going to see people riding these up and down Chestnut Street, maybe around the Liberty Bell? LIEUTENANT BRADY: That's quite possible. That gentleman you're speaking of started off with a store that you talked of with all other items, stereos, TV, the knives and stuff like that. He started off with two or three on the sidewalk. The sale of them 11 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 became so popular, he converted the entire store over to these bikes. There must be well over 100 of them in that store.
He had them sitting out on the sidewalk last night when I was going to Jefferson Hospital to visit someone. It's incredible. My children are and 23, so 10 they're beyond them. They're into bigger 11 toys. But what happens is if you're not 12 involved with someone between the ages of 13 13 and 25, you don't realize how important these 14 are to young people to get these, because 15 they're sort of a status symbol at this point 16 They're dangerous as all heck. 17 LIEUTENANT BRADY: I have a little 18 bit of an idea. I have two young sons who 19 have been pestering me to get them one, and because of what I know about them, I won't allow it. I do have a motorcycle license myself. I know, as a driver, you have to be certainly a whole lot more careful on a motorcycle than you do in a car. 12 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788
Wait until they're and they go out and buy a Suzuki 4 2004 Ninja or whatever it is that goes 160 5 miles an hour. 6 LIEUTENANT BRADY: I'll get a few 7 more gray hairs then. 8
You will. 9 I thank you. Thank you for your 10 testimony. 11 Mr. Haigler. 12 Any questions for this witness? I'm 13 sorry. 14 Councilman Rizzo. 15
Lieutenant, 16 sometimes there's a disconnect -- and I say 17 that with no disrespect -- between the people 18 who work in the Center City District and our 19 police officers in the Center City District. 20 I've had a person tell me that on 21 their walkie-talkie they tried to get a police 22 response to come because they had an issue 23 with one of these bikes being ridden on the sidewalk. They have no authority to give a ticket or anything like that? It's strictly a 13 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 police function? If there is an issue with one of the gentlemen or ladies that are out keeping the area neat and clean, how do they get a police officer to come if one of these are parked on the sidewalk? I see motorcycles occasionally chained to the parking meters on the sidewalk. LIEUTENANT BRADY: It's funny that you mentioned that because that's something I just recently addressed to my supervisors and officers. There was an incident we had where a motorcycle was on the sidewalk. As I said, I have a motorcycle. It's not supposed to be there. I know because of the sheer numbers in Center City and the congestion, it's a convenient vehicle to use to come to Center City. However, they still have to follow all the laws of a car, a normal vehicle. Therefore, they shouldn't be on a sidewalk. But the reason I addressed this is that somebody did do that, and a young girl walking down a street with her father -- the 14 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 bike was still hot. She walked by it and caught the exhaust and it put a permanent scar -- It burned her. So that was important to me both as an officer and a father. I don't want that happening. Because of, like I said, the popularity to drive this vehicle to Center City, I immediately addressed that with my officers. As far as issuing tickets, you're talking about the police officers, right?
What I'd like to know is if the fellows and ladies that have the two-way radios -- I don't know what you call them. LIEUTENANT BRADY: We call them community service representatives in the Center City District.
If they see a motorcycle chained to a railing, can they call on their two-way radio and ask for a member of your organization to come and do what's necessary? LIEUTENANT BRADY: Yes, sir. They have a dispatcher that's in the Center City 15 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 building at 10th and Filbert. They radio to him and then he will get an officer in the operations room. That operations room officer will notify radio to send one of our officers to that location.
They know that they can do this? LIEUTENANT BRADY: Yes. We have a relationship with them and the general public. It's unlike anywhere else in the City. We're very close knit. As a matter of fact, we use each other quite regularly like that. I'll give you a quick example. The other day there was a theft that elevated to a robbery in the Walgreen's, to which one of the CSRs was standing outside and viewed it, who relayed it to their dispatcher, and the dispatcher got it to me. I happened to be in the office at the time, and I actually had the information as the thing was happening, before it actually came out over our radio. There is a time delay when calling 911 and getting it out, a short time delay. So we do work like that, yes. 16 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788
We have some legislation that we're working with the Law Department now and it's a little cumbersome. I also have a motorcycle license and a Harley-Davidson. I wouldn't ride a yellow motorcycle anyhow, but I would definitely not be able to get on that. LIEUTENANT BRADY: I'm a little guy too, but I don't think I'd get on that either.
We're going to work with the City and we're going to try to designate so many spots in the City for motorcycles, because for every car spot, there could be four motorcycles. That's something we got coming within the next couple months hopefully. LIEUTENANT BRADY: It is very convenient and obviously it is much cheaper to operate these types of vehicles than it is a car, all the way around, with insurance and everything else.
Back to this 17 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 issue, any other questions for the lieutenant? (No response.)
Good morning and good day, Councilman Mariano and Members of the Committee. I'm Otis Haigler, Jr., Director of Legislative Affairs for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. Accompanying me today are Commissioner Robert D. Solvibile, Sr., Deputy Commissioner Dominic Verdi, and the Chief Code Official for our Department, David Perri. Today, I'm here to provide testimony on Bill 040764, which, if enacted, will add a new section to the Philadelphia Code to prohibit the sale of certain motor vehicles. The Department of Licenses and Inspections shares Council's concern over the recent proliferation of motorized scooters, commonly referred to as pocket bikes, that affect the peace, tranquility, and quality of life of citizens who reside in our City. As the business regulatory 18 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 department with responsibility for enforcement of Title related to the conduct of 4 businesses, trades and professions, we will 5 enforce the provisions of this ordinance, 6 should it be passed by Council and signed into 7 law by the Mayor. 8 The Department will respond to any 9 complaint it receives regarding a business which transacts to sell these types of prohibitive vehicles should this become law. We will take appropriate action as prescribed by law to enforce the provisions of this bill, including the removal and confiscation of the prohibited vehicles from the business establishment. Thank you for the opportunity to provide the Department's testimony on Bill 19 040764. I'll be happy to answer any questions at this time. (Applause.)
Otis, thank you. I talk to Deputy Commissioner Verdi almost every day or I talk to Mr. Solvibile, and it's usually about something like this. 19 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 These guys are on top of this. This is something we have to do. We have to get these off the street. But there's so many scoundrels out there that will sell these things. One of my staffers, Anna, insists that there's a place on Allegheny Avenue that probably did everything legal, but they're selling them in front of a place that used to be a sundry drug store when I was a kid, 10208 East Allegheny Avenue. We find people selling them in private homes. I know you guys are on top of them and I know you've got a building full of these things. I did hear the other day there was a fire up on Comley Street. The Fire Department put it out and there were hundreds, if not thousands, of these things in there. So it looks like we have a major distributor of these little pocket bikes.
We ceased that building. We ceased Comley Street. 20 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788
I don't see how you can sell these if you don't have some gas in them. I guess they're empty in the stores.
Councilman, the unfortunate problem is in some locations, the district allows this over-the-counter zoning permit for the sale of motor vehicles.
How do we change that, Dominic? Do we do that here through legislation?
Through legislation. One of the issues that we came across is the fact that these bikes also use gasoline.
Could you explain what you mean in some locations? Do you mean in different zoning classifications you can get it as a matter of right?
Dave will explain more in depth in reference to the zoning. But in some locations in some areas of the City, you can get an over-the-counter zoning permit for the sale of motor vehicles.
For, instance, 21 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 C-2, Dave?
Good morning, Councilman. Dave Perri. In C-2, the sale of motor vehicles is allowed, and in other commercial zoning districts that refer back to C-2 you would also be allowed to sell motor vehicles.
For instance C-3 through C-4, they all go back, if I remember correctly?
Yes. I can give you a list of the zoning categories that would allow the sale of motor vehicles. What you can do is introduce legislation to prohibit the sales of those particular types in those zoning districts.
My concern is not just for the Councilpeople and the panel, but the concerned citizens that came down here. The zoning laws in the City were written in the '50s, and they were written by lawyers probably to create more work for their colleagues. People find ways around anything 22 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 that was written by someone. There's ways around it if you're clever enough. For instance, 3224-36 Kensington Avenue, which is at K&A, the guy is open. Dominic knows this story. The guy is selling with no permits, and we get him shut down in May. He goes out and hires an expediter -- which we don't recommend -- but he gets an expediter who gets an attorney that are pretty good guys. The expediter calls me and says, "Can we talk?" I said, "Absolutely not. I just got done busting Pep Boys' stones. I'm not going to let anybody slide here. " We'll get to Pep Boys because we're going to read a letter from them. They've been great. So this guy hires an expediter. The expediter and the lawyer go back to him and say, we're not going to play ball here. This is a District Councilman. It's actually my district so I have a little more clout at the Zoning Board on this. The guy goes to the hearing and it's continued. He finds out 23 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 somehow, maybe from an ex-L&I employee, that all he has to do is cross out that he's not going to repair these things in there and he can sell them over-the-counter. He gets this over-the-counter. Now, I called the Commissioner and the Deputy Commissioner. They go out and we find other reasons to shut him down. He was still repairing them. But he didn't go to the zoning hearing. He fires the attorney and his expediter. The attorney happened to be in the room and the chairman asked to shut him down and he continued it again. So that guy will be in front of the Zoning Board again wasting more time because he's never going to get open as long as I'm here or as long as we're doing stuff like that. The neighborhood he picks is a neighborhood that's trying to make a comeback To have these in the middle of a commercial strip where they're trying to have nice storefronts and sell things and do things right, it becomes a problem. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Robert 24 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 Solvibile, Acting Commissioner of Licenses and Inspections. In our view, if it's not legal to ride on the street, it shouldn't be legal to sell. It should not be considered a motor vehicle because it's not legal. To answer your question, we'll put more work on Dominic. We'll gladly do it because of the unsafe conditions it causes. I was driving down from one of the fires we were at on the street -- I forget which one -- and a kid was driving one who's probably about 6'4" on one of these little things. His knees were out so much I had to stop because I could not get around without hitting his knees. He was going about 40 miles an hour. There's just no way in the world that knee would have survived that. It would have been shattered. It's just not right for our children to be able to purchase these. We should just outlaw them. It's not legal on the street. They should be outlawed, period.
Councilman, one 25 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 additional comment. If you do put a zoning bill in to ban their sale, keep in mind that that will only ban the sale on new establishments from this point forward. Everything else will be grandfathered. That's why we're in support of your legislation to approach it from a Title perspective. 9
I think we have to look at the Zoning Code altogether. It's something I've been wanting to do, to sit down with somebody and get this straightened out once and for all before this term is done. This is just one of the problems -- I'm sure you each have problems -- where things are 16 legal because of technology changes. 17 When I was 13 years old, my father 18 wouldn't let me have a mini-bike. You 19 couldn't have kept me off of them. That's an 20 attractive looking vehicle, and I'm sure you can get girls with it, so at 13 that's pretty much all I was thinking about. How do you keep the kids off of that? You have to be a parent and stand up to them and say, no, like Lieutenant Brady said. 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 No, you can't have them. Get the video game and go inside like everybody else. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: It's the same with cigarettes. Cigarettes are legal for adults. You shouldn't be smoking them, but they're legal. We stop minors from getting them. We should work as hard on something like this because it's just as bad for our children.
Councilman, for the record, Dominic Verdi, Deputy Commissioner, Licenses and Inspections. We're now looking at a list of all locations that have motor vehicle licenses, and we're going to be back into every location that recently got a license for the sale of motor vehicles with our fire and electrical inspectors and our licensing inspectors. Most of these locations did get a zoning permit, but none of them were inspected for fire issues. So we'll be looking at every location, especially because of the use of gasoline that goes along with 27 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 these bikes.
Your Department has been sending us, I think since July -- correct me if I'm wrong. Every time someone gets something over-the-counter, you send it to the District Councilpeople. I dont know about the At-large people. Maybe you send them to the whole City. This guy on Kensington Avenue, I almost missed that. When I called Dominic, he said, you have that. Then I found out Anna already knew about it. We have to be a little more vigilant to make sure who's getting these over-the-counter permits. When this is done, there will be another issue they will be selling. I'm not sure what it will be, but as technology changes, stuff is going to be smaller and more dangerous. Anyone else have any questions for this panel? (No response.) LIEUTENANT BRADY: Councilman, just a point of information for you in reference to being in a store and you mentioned the gas. 28 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 They have a capacity of just about over a gallon of gasoline, each bike.
You're going to visit them today, right, 11th Street?
I'm sure something is not right there. It's close to Jefferson Hospital. You can run right there after the big fire. No questions? (No response.)
Thank you. Pep Boys is here. Carl, you need to know that this Committee is honored to have one of the premier zoning lawyers in the City of Philadelphia.
Thank you. The honor is all mine. First of all, really what we want to do is thank Councilman Mariano and the other Councilpeople who have been involved in this issue. Also L&I, they've been kind of thrust into a situation and trying to deal with this. 29 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 If the issue really is the product, then the product needs to be addressed and this bill 4 does that. The zoning laws, as Mr. Perri said, aren't really equipped to deal with this. We went to the Zoning Board and we shared the same opinion, that really something like this needs to be done so that you're treating every retailer the same. You don't have some stores that are selling it because they're grandfathered, or you can sell it in one place and not another. Pep Boys wants to, first of all, thank the Council for addressing the issue Hopefully, we're going to be able to have a fair, even-handed way of having it addressed so that Pep Boys isn't singled out. They're a big Philadelphia employer and a big Philadelphia company. They care about their constituents. They care about their public and they care about their customers. All they really want is to know the rules and they'll follow the rules. Basically, we're here to say that we think the bill is a good one and 30 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 we're going to follow it.
Thank you, Mr. Primavera. Just let me say as the Chairman of the Committee, along with Councilwoman Miller, that when we went to the zoning hearing, Pep Boys have been great corporate citizens. I appreciate their stance on this. By no means were we picking on them. But sometimes when you're the big guy, you're the most visible. It wasn't just Pep Boys. In fact, Pep Boys stepped right up to the plate and were great corporate citizens and agreed to a voluntary ban on selling these things until we got to conclusion. So all accolades to Pep Boys. (Applause.)
It will come back ten-fold at Pep Boys. Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Primavera? (No response.)
Carl, one last question. Is there really a Manny, Moe and 31 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 Jack?
There were. We honor their memory in the name of our company. We all remember as kids, Manny, Moe and Jack. Brian Zuckerman is their representative.
It looks like it's the community's turn. Anna, Carmen, do you want to come up first? We're going to take everyone from the community who wants to come up. Carmen, state your name for the record.
Carmen works in my office. Carmen asked to testify here because she has a personal story about these darling little scooters that she wants to share with the Committee.
I am very passionate about this issue because my family was a victim of someone killing themselves on these bikes. My nephew died two years ago on April 16th. He was involved in an accident that 32 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 occurred on a pocket bike in Hunting Park. Ironically, he was years old and he had a 4 driver's license, so he was skilled to drive a 5 motor vehicle, but he jumped on one of these 6 things and didn't know how to ride them. He 7 lost control and hit an ice cream truck and 8 died 24 hours later. So I personally am a 9 member on the frontline trying to ban these 10 things from Philadelphia. 11 In North Philadelphia, there's no 12 land to ride these things, only the streets 13 and sidewalks. Even in the park it's 14 dangerous. 15 I just wanted to come here and 16 testify and state that it's important to the 17 Latino community and to me as a person to 18 please take these things off the street so our 19 children don't continue to die over them. 20
Carmen, thank 21 you. 22 One thing I want to say is that I 23 mentioned a little bit to Councilman Ramos and Representative Cruz. I think with your help and Anna's help and other leaders' help, what 33 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 we want to do is talk to Omega and some of the big Spanish stations. I think we need you, Juan and Angel and me to get on there. You guys will do all the Spanish speaking and tell them as parents we have a responsibility. I think a lot of times in our community -- and if I can include myself in that community -- what happens is we're so busy working, getting to work, doing things, taking care of our families, that the kid comes in -- and it's not hard for a 16-year-old kid to get a couple hundred dollars to get one of these things. So we just want to remind them that they're dangerous. And that story will probably be part of it. Thank you for testifying. Any questions for Carmen from the Committee? Councilwoman Brown.
Carmen, I need to say on a personal note that your story is a classic example of where one person can make a difference by simply putting it up on the 34 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 radar screen and then encouraging or nudging the Councilman in your own way -- who I'm sure it was a no-brainer for him -- to really focus on this. It will make a difference for a lot of families. So my hat is off to you.
Is anyone else from the community who wants to testify? (No response.)
Anna, do you want to testify? Do you want to talk about Allegheny Avenue a little and what you went through up there? Anna, state your name for the record.
Anna works in my office too. Anna is my liaison between the Zoning Board. Every time Anna goes to the Zoning Board, the zoning chairman, who doesn't have anyone that speaks Spanish, has Anna to hang around, so she does double duty for the City of Philadelphia and she usually winds up being an interpreter. 35 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 Anna, also explain how passionate you are about these and why.
When these things come up towards me, especially from a constituent's point of view, they come towards us, they call us every day, how can we allow this on the streets, how can we allow corner stores to sell these things. I take it personally. I go to the site. That's what I did a couple weeks ago where 108 East Allegheny came in. I practically got there on time where there was a 13-year-old, who was just turning 13, and the parent was buying one for him. He was test driving it on the sidewalk.
We're talking about Front and Allegheny, which is a busy, busy street.
This is a dollar store Just a basic dollar store who now has a permit to sell motor scooters in this area right in front of their store. They say they're keeping them enclosed. They were on the sidewalk. They were test driving, a 13-year-old. 36 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 The lady was Spanish. She didn't understand the outcome of all these things. I explained to her what happened. I made a sale not happen. A sale did not happen that day. The young man was not that upset, but he was very concerned about the fact that they're not taking $400 out of my pocket, so I'm not buying it. That's what happened.
Yes. They lied and said they were just selling them inside this building, which was permissible because it's an older area in Kensington that was industrial at one time and it lies under the Zoning Code of C-2.
There's a picture that the Councilman has that shows that. Now it's in front of the store behind the window. He sells them from right there, but he brings 37 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 them out during the day, especially on the first of the month. Everyone knows on the first of the month everyone gets a check. Across Front Street is Wachovia Bank. They come from there to the dollar store, see these things nicely displayed out front with flowers. The first thing I said was, "Are they flowers for the death bed or flowers just to make them look pretty?" This is where we stopped the sale. I called the Councilman. I called Dominic Verdi. I called everyone and I stopped the sale that day. How long can we do this? As long as it takes that I live in that neighborhood. Thank you.
Any other questions for this witness from the Committee? (No response.)
Seeing none. Thank you. Anyone else from the community? Candido.
Good morning. My name is Candida Silva, and I'm here on behalf of the community that's affected by this amazing 38 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 technology in front of us. I think three things need to happen One is that we need to hold some of these parents accountable, as you do your legislation, that as they purchase these bikes, there's some form of fines that are being developed for each person that's buying these bikes for their children. Also, as these bikes are being sold, there should be some mandate while they're trying to sell them. We're going to be successful in banning this by explaining verbatim the horrifying things and outcomes in utilizing these types of vehicles. Second and most of all, I think we need to hold the Police Department a little bit more accountable. Licenses and Inspections, as they start zoning people for whatever it is, grandmother, grandfather clause, I think we need to take an overview look and be more clear on who is filing for zoning. Let's be more strenuous in holding back and getting more information. It has to be imperative that we be strict on this type 39 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 of technology here. Third and finally, I think confiscating these bikes off the kids and taking them off and giving them a pat on the back and letting them walk, that should not happen. I think it's time to put that usual 48 that we're afraid of. When we were kids and we would pass curfew, the police officer would grab us, and grandma used to whack me with that tired wooden broom. We need to get the system more involved. Find these kids. Give them a fine, a $100 fine. Is it going hurt the community? Absolutely. But if we can't get the message out with PSAs and we can't hold the type of hearings where people are actually reaching out to them, then we need to start reaching out into the pockets and getting the system involved. It's imperative. I heard the story about the 5-year-old kid. The mother bought a bike for a 13-year-old child. The 5-year-old kid goes into the garage, gets on the bike, runs into 40 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 Hunting Park, and whack, dies instantly. I consider this type of technology a form of genocide of our youth and future for our kids of tomorrow.
Candido, just so you know, Councilman DiCicco introduced a bill -- it hasn't got to Committee yet -- that is doing just what you're talking about, in case this doesn't work, to further what we think is when these are illegal to sell in the City of Philadelphia, people are still going to get them on the Internet and bring them in. Then we're going to try what Councilman DiCicco wants to do, which is exactly what you said, to hold the parents more responsible. If your minor child winds up getting in trouble and one of these are caught in the street, you will be liable, much like the parental responsibility bill that we have on the books. I don't know how much we use it, but it is on the books from my first term in Council.
We need homeland security around the parameters of 41 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 Philadelphia. (Applause.)
Thank you. Any questions for this witness from the Committee?
I don't have a question for the witness -- or maybe he could answer it. Maybe you could, Mr. Chairman. These bikes look awful expensive to me. Do you have any idea what they go for?
They're not as expensive as you would think. There's a place in California on the Internet that will have it to your door for about $350 to $400 in about two days.
I was just curious because they do confiscate them. If you're putting out $350 or $400, it's still a big bite when you have that taken from you. I don't know how wealthy these people are, but once that bike was confiscated, I don't think I'd go out and buy another one.
Councilman, it 42 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 has to say something about this generational thing. There was no way I could have gotten $300 when I was 13. But now there's ways to make money for young kids. Legal ways, too. They seem to get them. I guess as parents we want our children to do better and have things and we're busy and we say, yeah. We don't totally think the whole decision through. It's our fault.
Councilman Kelly, to answer on the price on these vehicles or motor scooters, that particular day they had it, on October 1st, it was at $599. And today up until the 15th only, it's $299 right now. $299 and $399 depending on the style of the motorcycle.
Councilman, it's right on Allegheny Avenue. I think it's near the other bank.
On Allegheny, between me and Carmen, three. Front Street down. But the one at K&A -- not the one on Kensington. There's one on K&A further up who has this huge sign that just came up, "Motor scooter sale. Get them while they last." And they have them for $299 also.
Do they have a storefront or are they just selling them on the corner?
We do understand that Front and Allegheny does have a legal permit to sell these things.
Also the funny thing 44 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 about it is you have a lot of used car lots that are also selling them, and they're enhancing them now like dune buggies. Technology is advancing. They make them with canopies now. We need to look at the zoning as well as permits being given out to these folks. Like I said, it's hurting the community. We need each and every one of your support to make sure that we ban them. Not only ban them. Let's get the PSAs out there and let people in the community be aware of the dangerous jack-in-the-box system that's in that technology right there. It's called death.
It looks like this is two phases. The first phase is, of course, to stop the selling of these scooters or what not, and the second stage is going to be, as the Chairman has mentioned, that people will be getting them from out of state or other places. Then the Police Department -- and you're right -- should take action and start not only confiscating them, but giving 45 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 out citations and making the parents of these people, if they are minors, come into court, and then that will resolve that problem, I think.
One of the problems with the confiscation of these things is we don't want the police racing up and down Allegheny Avenue chasing some 13-year-old. Not that that would happen. Inspector Boyle has been really busy They've been very successful just in the east because that's all he's responsible for. The numbers are staggering, what they've been taking I think, besides what Lieutenant Brady said there, a lot of people aren't coming and taking them back. They know this is $300, $400. I shouldn't have had it, but it's out.
We also want to make it known to you that we do want to sleep at night. I live in that community. We don't want it in that community. Not me by myself, but everyone here is stating no more in their 46 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788 blocks. We don't sleep. They're up and down 2:00, 3:00 in the morning racing. That's where the danger is at.
This problem is so bad. I was riding in my neighborhood in Juniata. There were a group of ladies on them. I don't want to say young ladies because they were probably -- I'm 49. I admit it. There were some between 30 and 50. They had jackets and everything. There were six, seven or eight of them driving around. They had a little motorcycle club. They had pink ones and all. Can you imagine how dangerous it is? This is amazing. And we have to stop them. All kidding aside, we have to stop them. Candido is right. It's death. It's death in a pretty package with a bow on it.
Whatever the community can do to help you do your job, just let us know. We're there behind you 110 percent. It is something that's imperative. We will back each and every one of you up to the end 47 10/13/04 - LICENSES - BILL 040788
I just wanted to say on top of what the gentleman just said, what the community can do is, if this law should pass, just call us and let us know. Make the complaints.
Thank you. Anybody else want to testify. (No response.)
Seeing none. We will close the public hearing. This concludes the public hearing. - - - - 48 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC MEETING COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - - Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - - - - Public meeting conducted by the Committee on Licenses and Inspections, held in Room 400, City Hall, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on the above date, to consider action on the following: BILL 040788. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD MARIANO, Chair COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY 49 10/13/04 - LICENSES - PUBLIC MEETING
We'll now enter the public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kelly for a motion on Bill 040764.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that Bill No. 8 040764 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation, and I also ask for a suspension of the Rules so that this bill 11 may be included in the next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
Motion has been made and duly seconded. All those in favor of the motion? (Aye.)
Seeing no nays, it passes. This concludes the public meeting of Licenses and Inspection. Thank you. (Applause.)
Councilman 50 10/13/04 - LICENSES - PUBLIC MEETING Clarke's bill is going to be Wednesday the 20th at 11:00 a.m., Bill 040788. It has nothing to do with this. It's another bill 5 entirely. Thank you, everyone. (Council adjourned at 11:15 a.m.) 51 C E R T I F I C A T I O N. I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Wednesday, October 13, 2004, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. RE: COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS _________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR