COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:30 a.m. - - - - BILLS 030682, 030772, 030773, 030774, 030775, 030776, 030777, 030778, 030779, 030780, 030781, 030782 PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD MARIANO, Chair COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILWOMAN JOAN KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN MICHAEL NUTTER COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN - - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 I N D E X BILL 030682 LT. JOHN WALKER, Police Dept............ THOMAS O'DONNELL........................ 32 JOY GRIFFIN............................. 37 THOMAS CONWAY, Deputy Managing Director. 46 MIKE ERDOS, District Attorney's Office.. 48 BILLS 030772, 030773, 030774, 030775, 030776, 030777, 030778, 030779, 030780, 030781, 030782 DAVID WISMER, L&I....................... 72 RICHARD BAILEY, Fire Department......... 83 OTIS HAIGLER, JR., L&I.................. 89 GRAY SMITH............................. 107 KEN STRUP, American Society of Heating, Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Engineers.......................... 111 3 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682
I want to bring this public hearing to order. This the Committee on Licenses and Inspections, December 10, '03 Public Hearing. This is a public hearing of the Licenses and Inspections to consider Bill 030682 sponsored by Councilwoman Krajewski and bill 030772, 030782, which are department bills to enact the International Building Code. The Clerk will read the title of 030682.
Bill 030682, an ordinance amending Title 10 of the Philadelphia Code entitled "Regulation of Individual Conduct and Activity," by amending Chapter 10-400, entitled "Noise and Excessive Vibration," by adding a new section granting the Department of Public Health, the Police Department and Department of Licenses and Inspections the authority to issue tickets in residential districts for violation of this chapter by increasing penalties for violations of the chapter by making certain technical changes, all under certain terms and conditions. 4 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682
It's my understanding that the Police Department will testify on this bill. Following the Police Department, I ask Mr. O'Donnell and any residents interested to testify. Would the Police Department please approach the witness table? State your name and spell it for the record. LIEUTENANT WALKER: Lieutenant John Walker, W-A-L-K-E-R, currently assigned to the South Street Detail. Good morning, Members of Council. I'm here today on behalf on behalf of the Police Commissioner. Obviously, he couldn't attend. One of the issues that we've spoken about is the issue of noise in the City of Philadelphia. It's become a big concern, especially South Street with both vehicle noise, noise from residential properties and noise from businesses. As a result of that, the Commissioner has worked with the Health Department, the City Law Department to basically allow the Philadelphia Police 5 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 Department to co-enforce with the Health Department to identify residential locations within the City that become problematic. The Law Department has confirmed the Police Department's authority to co-enforce this ordinance along with the Health Department. And it's our department's object to aggressively enforce this ordinance on the residential level and assist the Health Department on the commercial levels. This action will not only abate current violators of the noise ordinance, but have a chilling effect upon any further illegal actions as well. This enforcement will thus increase the overall quality of life for the residents of our City. The Police Department plans to enforce the current noise ordinance with handheld sound meters. Officers in each of the patrol districts will receive 16 hours 22 of instruction in the use of these meters, at 23 which time they will be certified. The meters will be assigned to each of the patrol districts. 6 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 Upon receiving a noise complaint, an officer will respond to the location and attempt to abate the noise through mediation. Should the owner or occupant refuse to abate the nuisance, the officer will then request the patrol supervisor. This supervisor will make a determination as to whether to assign a squad noise officer to this problem location immediately. The supervisor will take into consideration the number of jobs pending on the Q screen and officer safety. The squad noise officer would retrieve the sound meter device, take a reading and cite violators when violations occur. In concluding, please let me again state the mission of the Police Department is to protect lives, property, and to enhance the quality of life throughout Philadelphia. Since this issue concerns the as health, welfare, and safety of the citizens of Philadelphia, it is the duty of the Police Department, along with the Department of Public Health to investigate, make observations, maintain surveillance concerning 7 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 excessive noise and implement any law, ordinance, or regulation promulgated to restrain and/or abate such noise. The Police Department, the Health Department and the Managing Director's Office are fully aware of the effects of noise on the quality of life on our residents and have begun to take action. Nevertheless, we appreciate and support any help by City Council to assist our goals in protecting the quality of life of our citizens. At this time, I'd be happy to answer any questions that Council may have.
Thank you, Lieutenant. Let me first say who's here. Myself, Councilman Mariano, Councilman DiCicco, Councilman Cohen, Councilwoman Krajewski, Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown, Councilman Nutter and Councilman Clarke. Let me start with the first volley of questions here, Lieutenant. This is all good, and I commend the 8 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 Councilwoman for this. We spoke about this. And I'm sure Mr. O'Donnell is going to say this when he gets up, because I think he's still one of my constituents. Are we going to really do this? Are we going to do this 2 o'clock in the morning when the people up the street are playing the music and the dog's barking and I'm ready to lose my mind? Is this really going to happen? I mean, I know you're a very high ranking police official. But at this point for this bill, there should have been a deputy commissioner here. No disrespect to you. I know some day you probably will be. But if we're going to do this kind of stuff -- and we're all in favor, I'm sure. I don't know who could be against it, but it's possible. But are we going to really be able to do it? From your testimony, there's one officer in the district and one meter? LIEUTENANT WALKER: There's going to be four officers assigned -- four officers in each of the 23 patrol districts that are going to be trained. That will give you one officer 9 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 on each of the three tours and then what we call our five squad tactical officer also will be trained. So we'll have the availability of an officer hours a day, 7 days a week. 6 We've already trained -- after Friday, we will 7 have already trained 90 police officers. 8 We'll have up to 120. And as the program goes 9 into motion, hopefully in the spring, we'll be 10 able to get more officers trained and make 11 this program work. 12
It sounds good. 13 I hope we can do it. 14 The last thing I'll say before I get 15 to the other Council People -- I know 16 Councilman Nutter has a question, Councilman 17 DiCicco. They do this in Wildwood, and I know 18 it's hard, especially North Wildwood because 19 my son got caught up in it who's 22 four years 20 ago. And I called the police chief down there 21 and didn't yell at him, I said, "Good job. 22 You should do that. How can we do that in 23 Philadelphia?" I know this isn't Wildwood. 24 And I don't think they had $3,000 meters. They stopped and his radio was too loud and he 10 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 was listening to DMX or something and that was it. He got a ticket and that was it. If Wildwood can do it at their little level, we should be able to do this. This is very important to the quality of life of people in Philadelphia. So again, I commend the Councilwoman and yourself. I just need to really be super sure that we're going to do this. LIEUTENANT WALKER: I believe we can. And again, we look at a small department like Wildwood being effective, but when you look on the macro level and you look at New York Police Department, under Mayor Bloomberg has basically put these meters into existence up there. They've handled -- they have a quality of life hotline. They have 97,000 calls that come into that line, 85 percent concerning music or loud sounds coming from some source. And they've actually been very successful in implementing this program in New York, which is the biggest police department in United States. I don't see any reason why we can't 11 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 be successful in doing it and have the same results.
Not to step on you, but my concern -- I listened to the police scanner yesterday. At 3:30 in the 26th Police District, there's calls -- okay, we're not busy right now. What's going on? And there's calls that were disturbances at 10 o'clock. One was a 13 and a 9-year-old left 11 in a home. So from 12:00 to 3:30 pretty much 12 that 9-year-old and 13-year-old could be dead by now. I understand the priority system. I live here. I live in Juniata Park. I live in one of hotter ends of the 24th relate. My other son lives in Port Richmond so I know. I mean, I see it. I love you guys; we all do. But I just don't know if we can do this kind of stuff. If we do, it has to be a firm commitment from everyone. It's not you, and I'm sure the Commissioner wouldn't send somebody -- we have to make sure that this is feasible in every way for it to work right. Thank you. 12 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 Councilman DiCicco and then Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Lieutenant. LIEUTENANT WALKER: Good morning.
Has the equipment been purchased yet? LIEUTENANT WALKER: Yes. We have purchased meters and we have them in our 12 possession. 13
How many? 14 LIEUTENANT WALKER: Twenty meters we 15 have purchased at this time. Again, we have 16 23 patrol districts, but three of those 17 districts -- there's two districts housed 18 within one building, so one meter will be each 19 of those locations. 20
When a citation is written by the Police Department, what's the next step in the process? What agency will be responsible for hearing the case in the event that the individual appeals it? Is the bureau of Administrative Adjudication? 13 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 LIEUTENANT WALKER: The case will go to Bureau of Administrative Adjudication for a hearing in front of Eileen O'Brien and their people.
Down at Ninth and Filbert? LIEUTENANT WALKER: Ninth and Filbert.
I don't think I have any other questions at this time.
Lieutenant, certainly a pleasure to see you, and I'm familiar with your service in the Philadelphia Police Department. A couple issues. One, at a meeting easily over a year ago in a part of my district, Police Commissioner Johnson and a number of other high-ranking police officers participate in the establishment of a zero tolerance program to deal many of the issues that we're talking about here this morning. This had to do with unruly patrons in a particular part of my district where there are 14 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 a number of liquor license establishments. One of the direct participants in that program was sergeant Fran Heilly. I don't know if you're familiar with him, out of the Commissioner's Office. LIEUTENANT WALKER: Yes.
Let me ask you a couple questions. When were these meters purchased. LIEUTENANT WALKER: The meters were purchased in August of 1999.
And what have we been doing with them since then? LIEUTENANT WALKER: Those meters, under Commissioner Timoney and under the support of Councilman DiCicco on South Street, one of our biggest concerns, obviously, I'm sure, was noise, the business noise and the patron noise. And Councilman DiCicco had asked that we purchase meters at that time, and Commissioner Timoney came on board and he agreed with the philosophy. Fran Heilly, who's actually out sick today -- he was supposed to be here with me -- had taken over 15 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 the program. He actually wrote the proposal for the Police Department, secured the funding through local law enforcement block grant, purchased the meters. And then training, because of the conflict of schedule at Rutgers University and the Department schedule, never went on. Recently, the issue was brought back up again, and we --
So you're saying for four years we've been trying figure out how to train the police officers. LIEUTENANT WALKER: That's correct.
Conflicts in schedules? LIEUTENANT WALKER: I think the Rutgers University was the only program out there. The company we had brought on is called Corporate Safety and Health out of New York; they trained the New York Police Department. When I took over the program four months ago, after finding out training was never completed, we met with Corporate Safety and Health because of their familiarity with a large police department in New York and their 16 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 success up there, we brought them on and started this program back up again.
Now, I read when the stories came out -- I think that was earlier this year -- about the New York Police Department Mayor Bloomberg going into kind of a anti-noise program. Can you tell us fairly briefly about the New York program and how the Philadelphia program, if it is mirrored or modeled after that particular program, how they match up or how they're different? LIEUTENANT WALKER: New York's Police Department currently runs what they call a task force approach where they have officers who work directly out of Chief of Patrol offices in New York and think go out -- they identify an area each weekend and they go out there with a team of eight police officers and a sergeant. They identify an area, they go out there, they do enforcement. The Philadelphia Police Department's intention is to have officers in each of the 23 patrol districts and the 3 Special Services 17 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 District, which are South Street, Manayunk and Center City, trained to be able to go out there and enforce on a 24-hour, 7-day-a-week basis. This gives the captain of each individual district the ability to address these issues in each one of these communities when they become a problem, which is a good concern. I mean, New York is obviously a lot bigger than us. The ordinance was passed in 1992 concerning music from vehicles establishes 14 feet. South Street, again, we wrote the most 15 tickets in the City for that, and we've had 16 unbelievable success in abating that noise and 17 ridding it from that area. I mean, this year 18 we were able to install signs and that has had 19 a profound effect. 20 This program -- and early on it's 21 going to run rough stages, but I think it will 22 be successful in the long run for the citizen. 23
I mean, 24 obviously, that's our hope. And I'd echo 25 Councilman Mariano's comments and, obviously, 18 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 Councilwoman Krajewski has brought this forward as a way of dealing with an issue that affects all of us throughout the City. The work on this is to be commended. So I don't want any of my comments to be taken in any way as lack of support. I have just some concern operationally. When I read your testimony, if I'm understanding the process here, my constituents are going to call the Police Department, more often times 911. LIEUTENANT WALKER: That is correct.
And say there is a loud, wild party going on or something at a particular location. LIEUTENANT WALKER: That's correct.
911 is going to assign about a 6 on the priority level, which is -- isn't that last? LIEUTENANT WALKER: That is correct.
So your testimony is that the calls will go into 911. An officer will ultimately get there after they finish chasing people around in the 19th District who are really doing stuff. Then 19 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 they're going to try to mediate the complaint. If the people don't comply, that officer is then going to request a patrol supervisor who are often busy themselves. Then the supervisor is going to come and decide whether to get the squad noise officer out to the location, taking into consideration the number of jobs pending and officer safety. And then ultimately the squad noise officer is going to go wherever he or she has to go to retrieve the sound meter, take a reading and cite the violators when the violations occur? LIEUTENANT WALKER: That is correct.
Now, as wild and crazy as some of my college students are, I think what the police officer and a supervisor standing outside, you would have to be completely stupid to maintain the noise volume waiting now for the squad noise officer to come and measure it. LIEUTENANT WALKER: There's a possibility, but --
This process sounds like it's going to take a couple hours 20 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 in the course of a Saturday night in West Philly or Wynnefield or Overbrook, or Manayunk, for that matter. LIEUTENANT WALKER: There's a possibility in those busy districts as, the 19th is a very busy, as you're aware. But in areas like South Street that has a Special Service District, slower districts like the 5th District, again, this procedure, I think, will work and then we'll be able to modify it from there, including a possibility of having that officer at the start of their tour carrying that meter with them.
I guess that was one of the parts I didn't really understand. If you're the squad noise officer, why aren't you carrying the squad noise meter with you at all times and then transferring it by shift to the next person? LIEUTENANT WALKER: And the second thing with the noise, as far as what it's going to prioritized, we are meeting with our radio room to discuss that issue to find out if we can -- depending on if they can build 21 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 into the system if there's a problem location, that that automatically be jumped up priority.
I mean, look, I understand that. But, you know, as much as my constituents don't like it, a loud party general doesn't compare with a man with a gun. LIEUTENANT WALKER: Exactly.
I mean, it's just the way it goes LIEUTENANT WALKER: And we agree with that.
So look, I wanted it to work. I think, obviously, you've got the uniform and the training, I'm just looking at more the more practical side of this and the reality of what seems to happen out in the street. So my only concern is probably that we may need a few more of these devices and, I mean, somewhat similar to the New York program, officers who are dedicated to this at least in certain areas so that the captain can better control and know what the hot spots are and that we're not going through a protracted process. 22 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 I mean, the police presence will usual cause the music to come down. What normally happens is the police leave and the music goes up, and you play that game throughout the course of the night. LIEUTENANT WALKER: Exactly.
I mean, neighbors are only take that but some long. LIEUTENANT WALKER: Right now, it's pretty much subjective. And I think once you start enforcement in writing these tickets for a hundred dollars, $200, $300, the message is going to get there loud and clear, as we've done on South Street with motorcycles. It's become loud and clear that motorcycle enforcement is very aggressive down and people start to come into compliance. I think that's what our goal is.
Thank you, Councilman. Councilman Cohen, do you have some questions? Your light is on. 23 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Mr. Lieutenant. LIEUTENANT WALKER: Good morning.
Lieutenant, from time to time I've asked questions about certain functions in the Police Department that personally I felt that could be better served by a City employee, not necessarily a police officer but some other type of City employee that we currently don't have in the ranks. You know, the police officer going through trash, I've never understood that, you know some of the quality of life violations that we use a highly trained officer to do. And I've never understood why we couldn't come up with a strategy to get a public safety officer. Actually, I think in New York they have a certain category of officer that does these type of duties. And I guess my question is, one, if 24 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 we ever get to the point where we create that category of officer, would it may be more sense to have an officer, particular after listening to Councilman Nutter's questions about concerns particularly in those high activity districts -- I actually happen to represent and I happen to live in one. And I know when a officer calls there's a person with a gun or some other type of violent crime, that will definitely take more precedence over noise violations. If you had the ability to determine whether or not we could have this other category of officer, would it make more sense for you to have a different category of employee provide this service, some sort of enforcement. Not necessarily enforcement, but detection, because I know that when we get to the enforcement issues, you have to have a trained employee. LIEUTENANT WALKER: I think quality of life is a very important issue. And I think having police officers enforce it is extremely important. I mean, we've seen 25 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 successes throughout the country of minor crimes becoming a segue to major crimes. And I'm a firm believer not being on South Street for five years now, I see, including last night, where we stop a car for loud music; the car is stolen out of Pennsauken, New Jersey; the driver of the vehicle is in possession of narcotics. So I think when you allow these low level crimes to go unenforced by law enforcement, it becomes a big problem. And I see the big problems as a bunch of the small problems. It is the loud music and the people urinating on property that create your robberies and your assaults and your homicides. If you correct those violations early on, I don't see it leading to that potential problem.
I agree with you a hundred percent. My concern is the practicality of thinking that we'll have the appropriate number of officers to respond to these calls. I think if the public is aware that we have an aggressive strategy -- and I don't think a lot of people are aware of that, 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 frankly speaking. An aggressive to enforce this loud noise violations. I actually have one on my block like clockwork. Every Saturday night they ramp it up. I think that we will probably get a lot more calls with a lot higher expectation of a response. And I guess my concern is if, in fact, we do this in a way that I think all of us would like to see it done, will we realistically be able to adequately enforce it with the limited numbers of officers that we have? The other question I have is with respect to Town Watch. And I know in some areas we have good Town Watch organizations, some questionable, but there's always been this premise that Town Watch were the eyes and ears for not only the communities but for the law enforcement community. My question is -- and I know there was actually a time when there were phones provided by the City for organized Town Watch that, you know, you had some sort of direct link to police officers. LIEUTENANT WALKER: That is correct.
Could there 27 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 possibly be a scenario where an organized trained Town Watch could have one of these devices? And as they do whatever they do, walk around, do their patrols, be in a position to respond or to get a reading on a troublesome property or location? And then that meter, in fact, could be analyzed by the appropriate police officer, then the enforcement mechanism would come into play? LIEUTENANT WALKER: That's always a potential possibility. That's one thing we're looking at on South Street where graffiti is the -- Town Watch, as they're walking around, is going to have digital camera take some photographs and complicate the information for us and so on and forth. So that's always a possibility and that's a good idea and that's an effective use of our citizens to get them more involved in our communities, which is extremely important.
I guess my question centers more around the legality of having a citizen, albeit a Town Watch, you know, a legitimate Town Watch individual, be 28 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 in possession of such a device and use that device -- LIEUTENANT WALKER: They would have to contact enforcement, either us or the Health Department to actually listen to the sound, use the meter, our own meter which is calibrated, and then write the ticket. They as the eyes and ears can hear that, notify us and then we can be more effective in getting out there quickly with them. But we would have to measure with our own device, and we would have to write the ticket.
The ultimate enforcement would have to be the officer, but there's nothing from a legal standpoint that would prohibit that individual having a meter and getting the initial reading that indicates that it's beyond the decibel level allowed ad a result of this particular -- LIEUTENANT WALKER: I know of one case in Old City that's going on right now with the resident who actually has a meter and he measures and goes to the lieutenant assigned there and then they try to get 29 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 someone out there to help them, but they have no enforcement powers whatsoever other than to measure it. And if they're familiar with the sound ordinance in the City, telling us that they thing it's above, and then we would have to go out there and make that determination, us or the Health Department.
All right. Thank you, Lieutenant. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Wasn't there once a noise violation ordinance? LIEUTENANT WALKER: There still is.
Well, isn't it enforceable? LIEUTENANT WALKER: It is enforceable. The Health Department has sole responsibility at this time.
I didn't get that. LIEUTENANT WALKER: The Health 30 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 Department is solely responsible for enforcing the City Ordinance 10-400 at this time.
Because I know that the police could do it too, couldn't they? LIEUTENANT WALKER: Yes.
Because I remember once the Carpenters Union was upset about the fact the Society Hill Condominium had awarded a contract to the lowest bidder which happened not to be a company that the Carpenters Union had organized, so in their effort to win friends, the Carpenters Union would come out to the condominium about 6:00 in the morning and began playing loud music. And I guess it was the Health Department, went out and put an end to it, enforcing the noise code. LIEUTENANT WALKER: I'm quite familiar with that case.
I don't know why the police didn't do that. LIEUTENANT WALKER: The Health Department worked with our Civil Affairs 31 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 Division on that case and it probably was able to abate that noise.
But I guess an ordinary dispute between two neighbors, one making real loud noise -- LIEUTENANT WALKER: Those are resources issues. The Health Department doesn't have the resources to put people out there a day, 7 days a week. If you get a 11 call for a noisy neighbor at 2:00 in the 12 morning, we can go out there and try to abate 13 that and raise the level to officers who are 14 responded. But there is no objective 15 criterion in place that we're able to measure 16 with a device to be able to get to the core 17 hurdles, which I think is important. 18
Anymore 20 questions for this witness? 21 (No response.) 22
Seeing none, Mr. 23 O'Donnell. 24 Anyone else from neighbors want to testify? 32 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682
Most of the people who are affected by this ordinance work --
Save it for the microphone, Mr. O'Donnell. Your name, spell it and --
My name is Thomas O'Donnell O-D-O-N-N-E-L-L. I'm a resident of Philadelphia for my entire life. This has been a problem with the City for the entire life not just in South Street but in the working class neighborhoods of Philadelphia, South Street and Society Hill. I have a letter here I would like to read, with your pleasure. I want to thank you for putting forth your Bill No. 030682 regarding excessive noise and vibrations. This has been a problem affecting the quality of life in this City for years. My neighborhood has seen the effects of this with great frustration. I realize that City Council is now addressing this problem. The vast majority of citizens who work and live should not have to put up with 33 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 their windows vibrating from a neighbor's music three doors away. When the police are called, it is placed on a low priority, which they have no 6 choice about, and they answer hours later. This is not their fault; they are swamped by more important duties. I have read over the previous law regarding this proposed new bill, the new and the old law, and the same problem still arises: There is a lack of resources and personnel that can be addressed to this problem. However, I noticed that in my neighborhood that tickets were being issued for my car not being moved one day a week. In some streets, in your tires are touching the curb, we have resources to issue tickets for that. Or if my car is parked within 20 feet of the corner, there's a ticket issued for that. These are all stealth tickets. We have trash department police that go through my trash. We have resources for that. Or my grass is too high or if the car is parked the 34 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 wrong way, we have resources for that. And I have never heard of anyone moving from the City for these violations. It seems that our City departments have went from protect and serve to ticket and tow. m. does. I work for a living. Most of the people that violate this don't. My neighbor who has lived on this street for over 40 years is moving partly because of this problem. The police don't have the resources. At a recent civic meeting, as Mr. Mariano can verify, when we brought this up -- when I brought this up, all the people stood up and hollered and said, "This why I'm moving. This is why my mother is moving. " But could you please re-allocate some of the personnel that you seem to have plenty of to give tickets to the working men 35 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 and women of this community that they're issuing tickets and fines for trash, trash out too late, trash out too early, litter on my lawn, my tires on my car touching the curb, and re-allocate them to a real quality of life issue. This; this is what people move over. I also realize this entails moving the majority in either second or third shift. But we have to ask ourselves, who are they serving? Who are they serving? Are not the people with the CLIP Program, L&I that was issuing tickets for trash and lawn and a newspaper that blown open on my lawn? Aren't they there to serve us, the working citizens? I'm willing to help and assist in this. I'm willing to volunteer and pay for the training myself. I'll take two days off from work, go up to New York and pay this training just to do this. I'm also willing and able to go out and do the work free of charge, and you will find other citizens that are willing and able to do this free of charge so our Police Department can pursue more serious issues and that the citizens of 36 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 Philadelphia can truly have quality of life, inside their own homes. Someone's lawn eight inches bother me once I close my door. Their car parked the wrong way doesn't bother me in no way whatsoever. Why they're issuing tickets for that, I have no idea. And also, as far the $3,000 meters go, there is another way where you can call up and see how loud something is. It's known as the cell phone.
You just have an answering machine on the other end. You could get the cell phone company to calibrate it and you wouldn't have to put $3,000, a whole bunch of people, a whole bunch of specialized train. We seem to be able to issue tickets to the working men and women of Philadelphia for parking your car wrong, not mowing your lawn, any violation it seems to find. We're moving businesses from Kensington Avenue because of the Parking Authority. Can we at least reallocate some resources to help the working men in Philadelphia to stay here. Most people that do this are the 37 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 ones that don't work. Now, o'clock in the 3 morning, who else can be up but them? Thank you. If you have any questions.
Seeing none, thank you, Mr. O'Donnell. State your name for the record and spell it.
Good morning. My name is Joy L. Griffin, G-R-I-F-F-I-N. I live in the 100 block of Roxborough Avenue which is in Manayunk. I consider myself a life-long resident there. I went to Joel Cooke School. I went to Levering. I graduated from Roxborough High School. My grandparents lived across the street from where -- actually, I live now in my grandmother's house. My grandfather and grandmother are deceased. My mother lives across the street. My father is also deceased. And the noise issue and the quality 38 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 of life issue is very close to us because my father -- part of the reason why he passed away was that he could not get the rest that he needed in his home because of the noise and the patrons. We both were victims of a violent crime because of a patron who was intoxicated coming out of one of the establishments that we continually have a problem with, with respect to the noise of their patrons, their people, their entertainment, and the staff. And so the noise ordinance is something that is very important to not only me personally but to the residents of the 100 block of Roxborough Avenue. For those of you who may not know where that is, that is right off Main Street. Our cross streets Main Street and Creasant Street. We're one block, we're one-way, and we've been there for at least 60 years. I understand that there are some people that don't want us there, and they make that very obvious and very plain. But we're not going anywhere. And we're not going to be 39 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 forced out of our homes if we can help it. So we must do what we can in order to address the issues that affect continually our quality of life, noise being one. I read with great interest this bill. I'm very much for anything that will help enforce the noise level and the quality of life. What I'm concerned about moreover is the business aspect of it. We have a lot of party houses, as you can imagine, out in Manayunk. There are many students that go half-sies quarter-lies, whatever-ies into a house and 52 of them pile in there and they party. That's been an ongoing issue for a while. My main concern is the businesses. These businesses hold liquor licenses. They do have privilege to do business in the City of Philadelphia, yet they will not consider the quality of life of the residents and their neighbors which are adjacent to their businesses. These businesses have moved into a residential area and re-commercialized to suit their needs. I don't mind that. We 40 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 don't mind that at all. What we do mind is our quality of life being affected. And when I read the bill, I just felt that it would not address the situation with businesses. They get warnings. We're already, if you will, in a sword fight now. They get warnings. They get drive-bys, meaning that the residents will call, the police will drive. If they don't think that they hear anything, they don't even get out of the car. We have to address these issues at our little civic meetings. But the fine is not even a slap on the wrist to them. They will pay that each and every week just to get the extra hundred people walking through their doors.
Ms. Griffin, if I can interrupt you. Behind Mr. Conway there's a handsome guy looking down. He works for the DA's Office. Stand up. Let me embarrass you. He works for the DA's Office. Talk to him. This noise stuff will help, but you've got some bigger problems. Talk to him 41 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 about the nuisance properties, the nuisance bars.
Your thing is way beyond this. This is nuisance bars, nuisance property. For instance, if that bar is a problem, let him shut them down. It takes a while, but they can do that.
If the guy renting out the house is renting to a bunch of kids, Councilman Nutter addressed that stuff with a previous bill that passed here. I don't know if it was vetoed or something. But that's the guy there. Grab him behind Conway. They're both pretty good-looking guys, although Conway needs a shave.
Thank you so much. That just alleviates a lot of the weight.
You want to be his friend. He can seriously help you. I didn't want to interrupt you, but that could 42 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 save you some time.
Thank you. That's why I ventured to come out today to make our situation, our plight known and to also support the bill. It's the best that we can do. I myself personally been waiting for a monitor since 1997.
I think we can only get them on picket lines for unions. I've been on the other side a few of them. They come with a monitor, everybody's quiet; the monitor leaves, everybody starts making noise.
I can tell you what cars are going down the street in my neighborhood, who wrote the song, who's playing it and if it's in a DVD or tape deck; 43 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 that's how good I am. So I'm little ahead of you on that. You can continue. I'm sorry to interrupt you.
I did want to say I'm very pleased at our regular meeting, the Manayunk neighborhood council meeting. The captain did come out and he did discuss with us this program and how it would be acted out in the 5th District. I think that it's wonderful if we can get the police to cooperate and also the dispatchers, because when we call up for noise, they say, "And? So?" And they almost refuse to dispatch. So that's another issue. But I'm very much for anything that will abate the noise and reintroduce a quality of life that we are accustomed to having. We may not ever get it back. I mean, our quiet sleepy thing, it's not going to happen. But we can at least try for a reasonable portion of quietness and civility, you know. It's hard when you have people who are intoxicated, but it can be done. I think it can. 44 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682
It's a number of bars? My mom's from Manayunk. They lived on Umbria Street. One of my cousins still lives there. She went to Roxborough. In fact she used to sing this song for us, Roxborough High up on the hill, if you want to do that.
I think I know where you're at. As you come down Main Street --
Umbria, they live near Umbria and Ripka, near Levering School. Actually, it's across from the parking lot.
So Councilman Nutter and I are going checking out the bars during the Christmas season up there, so we'll check those out.
Well, you know what? 45 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 Quite frankly, it's kind of quiet around Christmas because the college kids are gone. They usually go away. And as a matter of fact, a couple of the places do close because they know that their bid for binge drinking is not going to happen because the children aren't there. That's really what they are, they're 18, 19, 20, just turned 21. We get those, you know, "I'm 21, I'm legal, I can get drunk."
Anyone have any questions for this witness? Councilwoman Krajewski, you want to know about the bars in Manayunk?
Any other witness from the neighbors? If not we're going to go right to 46 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 Mr. Conway, the big cheese. Come on, Mr. Conway.
Good morning, Councilman Mariano, Members of City Council. I am Thomas Conway, Deputy Managing Director, here to present testimony in support Bill No. 8 030682. The Managing Director's Office and Philadelphia Police Department have taken an active role to address the City-wide problem of excessive noise which affects the quality of life for all City residents. It has been our experience from attending community meetings throughout the City and listening to the residents of our neighborhoods that excessive noise emanating from cars and residents is a nuisance that our citizens want the Administration and Council to address. Through passage of this bill and with the support of the Police Department and operating departments under the Managing Director's Office, we look forward to improving the quality of life for the citizens of Philadelphia. 47 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 I have technical amendments to offer on the bill, and I'm requesting a suspension of the Rules.
Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Conway? Councilman DiCicco.
I guess my question could be for Mr. Conway or Lieutenant Walker. Police officer, Department of Health employee, employee of L&I goes out to a home on a complaint, issues a citation. To whom does the citation get issued to, the owner of the property or -- let's assume for the moment that the owner of the property is not in, it's the son or daughter, niece or nephew, or visitor. Who do we issue the citation to?
Let's take this a little further. It's a house I own, but my 19-year-old son lives in it. It really exists. I won't tell you where that is. But him and six of his friends are there. They're listening to music real loud. It's 10:30 at night. It's not loud to them, but it's loud to every other human being. Who gets the 48 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 ticket? I own the house. Does my son Vincent get the ticket? Does every kid in the house get a ticket? Because I own the house but I'm renting it to Vince and maybe one of his buddies. How does that work?
Mike Erdos, Chief of the Public Nuisance Task Force of the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office.
Yes. E-R-D-O-S. And I do have some comments when it's appropriate in support of bill, but to answer your specific question, the way this ordinance is written, it could apply to both. I mean, in the first instance, it should apply to the noise-maker. They're the ones that are causing the noise at the moment. However, under Prohibited Conduct, any person who causes or permits sound in violation of the specified limits would be violation. So that an owner who is continually allowing their children to make this type of noise or landlord who was allowing their tenant to make this amount of 49 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 noise even though they had been notified and warned that there was a problem, could technically come under this provision as well. But in the first instance, I think the idea was to give the citation to the person who's really making the noise.
The instance that I just made up there, if it's a party, would you say, "Whose apartment is this?" Or "Whose house is this? " Somebody steps forward and said, "Yeah, it's me" --
So if you keep coming back to that particular address?
The tenant, I assume, who has the lease for the apartment or house would --
Again, I support the bill, obviously. And I personally don't care who gets it as long as somebody starts getting tickets. But just from a technical standpoint I was curious as to how that would be handled. 50 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682
Mike, would they make any traffic stops with these loud vibrating bass playing cars with the smoked windows? Will they make traffic stops too? I mean, if a car is coming down the street --
I think Lieutenant Walker should probably answer that question. LIEUTENANT WALKER: Councilman, that's a separate ordinance, 12-1126, which basically says feet from the vehicle. So 12 again, that ticket can be written anytime of 13 day. 14
Will you be 15 using those meters? That seems to be the 16 problem; nobody's writing them tickets, Mike. 17 That's few and far between. Not in 18 Philadelphia. 19 LIEUTENANT WALKER: I think it's 20 just a matter of leveling the awareness of the 21 officers on the street that that law is out 22 there. It's actually now on the moving ticket 23 book. We had Traffic put it on the book this 24 year for the first time. The officers now 25 have the City cited, it's $114 immediately. 51 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682
And how does a sharp lawyer beat that in court? I mean, he could say, "It was loud, but was it loud to you, Lieutenant? You wrote the ticket."
The amazing thing about these tickets, 91 percent are being paid without even going to court for a challenge.
Yes. It's a separate ordinance that was issued in 1992, feet 17 from the vehicle and then we expanded that 18 have City-wide to be able to regulate that 19 noise in those vehicles. 20
Not being a 21 lawyer is actually a good thing for me, then I 22 can be as stupid as I want to be. They have 23 to pretend they're smart even when they're 24 not. But if you can do it for a moving car 25 without a meter, why not a house? I realize 52 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 it's different bills, but if I'm a lawyer and I go there and I say, "What's loud? Loud to you may not be loud to him. He's a little deaf."
There is a catch-all provision which would allow the officer in absence the meter. In practice, it was found to be perhaps too subjective or it wasn't the concrete enough. These new amendments give specified sound limits that can be objectively measured, and that will make it easier and I think it will also be a motivating force for the police to go out there and enforce it.
If I can follow up, Mr. Chair, because I'm somewhat familiar with this when we started enforcing the South Street noise ordinance several years ago. One of the problems we had is when the citation was written and it went to court, the judge -- in that case, I think Traffic Court was handling those cases -- needed some documentation. One person's word over the others -- I mean what is loud to me may not be loud to someone else. So the meter allows 53 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 for, I think, a paper printout of what the decibel level was so that the judge has in fact in front of them documentation that at least verifies what the decibel level was at the time of the citation being issued. LIEUTENANT WALKER: That is correct.
Any other questions for these three witnesses from the Committee? Mike, you want to testify still?
Thank you. C. Thank you for allowing me to appear before you and voice her support for the proposed amendments for this City noise ordinance. The District Attorney's Office regularly receives complaints of excessive residential noise. These complaints are alarming both in their quantity and their 54 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 quality. We receive literally hundreds of phone calls into our Public Nuisance Task Force hot line each year complaining about noisy neighbors, and we hear similar concerns raised at the vast majority of the hundreds of community meetings that the District Attorney and her assistants attend. The number of such complaints we receive are great and so too is what is at stake for the victims of residential noise. For these residents lose what each of us holds dear, the peaceful and quiet enjoyment of our homes. Excessive noise violators, showing no 15 concern for being responsible, considerate, law-abiding neighbors, destroy the quality of life for nearby residents. These violators truly deserve the title nuisances. And these noise violations can have even larger repercussions. The road from quality of life offenses to more serious violent crimes does become a slippery slope when law enforcement is lax. Complaints about residential noise is alarming for one other very important 55 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 reason, because they are infused with despair and hopelessness. These victims have come to believe that the current system of law enforcement is not equipped to deal with residential noise and their constant calls to the police and other City agencies have provided them little or no relief. The amendments before this committee promise meaningful change. They allow police officers or other individuals properly trained to use sound level meters to acquire an objective measure of the sound levels coming from within a residence and to issue citations with heavier fines for those found to be making or allowing noise above the specified limits. These additions should give the ordinance some real teeth. As we can all appreciate, drug activity, violence, and other felonious behavior must continue to be the primary focus of the police department's work. However, it is the District Attorney's understanding that the patrol supervisor in each police district will take into consideration the number of 56 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 jobs pending and officer safety before dispatching a squad noise officer to a noisy property. As such, police can use the amended ordinance to provide real noise relief to neighborhoods without compromising their ability to respond to emergencies and other dangerous or pressing situations. The District Attorney strongly urges that a mechanism be established whereby police or other city employees who enforce this ordinance can ascertain whether a perpetrator has passed violations. The real thorns in the neighborhood's side are those individuals who create excessive noise regularly. These chronic violators must be subjected to the increased penalties for recidivists set forth in the ordinance, including arrest and incarceration for those committing more than three violations in a three year time period. If these violators don't value being a considerate neighbor, then hopefully they will at least value their pocketbooks and their freedom. In order for law enforcement to 57 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 gauge whether a particular offence warrants arrest or increased fines, all violations must be accurately entered and stored in a reliable database that can be easily accessed by, among others, the police district, L&I, and the Health Department. District Attorney Abraham applauds this effort to improve the quality of life for our City's residents and hopes that the passage and energized enforcement of the amended ordinance will bring those Philadelphians held captive by noisy neighbors some much needed relief. Thank you.
Thank you, Mike. Questions for this witness? Councilman Nutter.
Thank you. Mr. Erdos, let me ask a couple questions about your testimony. You indicate that you receive hundreds of phone calls into your Public Nuisance Task Force Hotline each year 58 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 complaining about noisy neighbors. How many do you actually receive?
I don't know if we have a specific number. However, in speaking with our hotline coordinator, we estimated that it was less than a thousand per year but certainly more than 200.
Less than a thousand, more than 200, okay. And what's the purpose of this hotline?
The purpose of the hotline to field complaints, receive information, and sort of set the wheel in motion for situations that the District Attorney's Office can assist victims of nuisances. Primarily, drug and alcohol-related properties, but also other quality of life situations where we can refer them to the proper department if we can't take action ourselves.
A member of THE District Attorney'S Office of the Public Nuisance Task Force.
And what do you do when you receive these complaints about noisy neighbors.
Well, in the past, we have told them about the ordinance that has existed for many years. We've told them that the Health Department has been empowered by that ordinance to enforce the ordinance. And we either refer them to the Health Department or make the referral ourselves. We also tell them that it might be worthwhile to call the police because the conduct in some cases can rise to the level of disorderly conduct which prohibits unreasonable noise. So we've tried to point them in the direction of the agencies that can provide them relief.
But there's no 23 direct service being provided when people call?
The service in those instances is to refer them to the police or the Health Department. In some special circumstances, we will reach out to the police ourselves depending on the nature of the call.
If we've heard back from someone repeatedly or if the situation they're describing is particularly alarming in terms of the quality or quantity of the noise that they're describing, in some instances, we will call the police district ourselves and try to mobilize some action.
Could you provide to the Chair for the past year a listing -- not by location. I don't know how you categorize your calls; maybe by police district, in terms of number of calls and the nature of those calls. You must have a legend or a guide or a code that goes with the types of complaints that you receive.
We do have a database 61 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 that would allow us to provide information relating to calls dealing with alcohol-related nuisances, drug-related nuisances. However, for noise, I don't believe those are cataloged at the current time.
But could you get us, through the Chair, a listing of the number, type, and police district of calls that you did receive in the hotline in the past year?
Yes. For those calls that we did enter into the database, absolutely.
My last question is, of your testimony talks about chronic violators must be subjected to the increased penalties for recidivists set forth in the ordinance, including arrest and incarceration for those committing more than three violations in the three-year time period. You're saying that if you are a chronic noise violator and you have more than three violations in a three-year period, you 62 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 could be arrested and locked up?
You can be. And that was the case under the current rendition of the ordinance as it was passed in 1992.
Do you know of anyone who's ever been arrested and incarcerated for noise violation?
Is your answer your answer because you actually don't know or you don't know that anyone ever has.
I can't say with certainty that no one ever has been. I would be surprised if that were the case.
Okay. Thank you very much. You'll get the information to us through the Chair?
Thank you, Councilman. Since there's no other questions, 63 12/10/03 - LICENSES - BILL 030682 we're going to leave the public hearing and go in the public meeting, take care of this bill 4 and then come back to the public hearing. So this closes the public hearing for right now. - - - - 64 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC MEETING COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - - Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - - - - Public meeting conducted by the Committee on Licenses and Inspections, held in Room 696, City Hall, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on the above date, to consider action on the following: BILL 030682. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD MARIANO, Chair COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILWOMAN JOAN KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN MICHAEL NUTTER COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN 65 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING
We're go into the public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Krajewski for a motion on Bill 030682.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill 030682 be reported out of this Committee, but I believe that we have an amendment to this bill. I would like to submit the amendment and I'd like to move the adoption of the amendment. (Duly seconded.)
It's been moved to adopt the amendments. It's been seconded. All those in favor, say aye. (Aye.)
I move that Bill 030682, as amended, be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation, with a suspension of the rules as to permit first reading at the next Session 66 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING of Council. (Duly seconded.)
There's been a motion that this bill, as amended, be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation with suspension of the Rules. All in favor? (Aye.)
Seeing none, that's it. It passes. - - - - 67 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC HEARING - - - -
So we're out of the public meeting and we go back into the public hearing. Will the Clerk read the title of the next bill.
Mr. Chairman, I really have to leave, but I would like to leave my vote for all bills and amendments.
Bill 030772, an ordinance repealing Subcode M of Title 4 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled the "Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code," and adopting and incorporating with certain additions, deletions and amendments the 2003 International Mechanical Code as the Philadelphia Mechanical Code, all under certain terms and conditions. 68 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING Bill 030773, an ordinance amending Title of the Philadelphia Code, entitled 4 "The Philadelphia Construction and Occupancy Code," by adopting and incorporating, with certain additions, deletions and amendments, the 2003 International Performance Code for Buildings and Facilities as the Philadelphia Performance Code, under certain terms and conditions. Bill 030774, an ordinance amending Title 4 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code, by amending Subcode PM (The Property Maintenance Code), to incorporate certain International Code Council model code provisions related to unsafe structures and equipment; revise the definition of rooming house; amend requirements regarding permits for the abatement of imminently dangerous buildings; amend requirements for electrical receptacles in bathrooms; and make technical changes; all under certain terms and conditions. Bill 030775, an ordinance amending 69 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING Title of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code," by adopting and incorporating, with certain additions, deletions and amendments, the 2003 International Fuel Gas Code as the Philadelphia Fuel Gas Code, under certain terms and conditions. Bill 030776, an ordinance repealing Subcode F (The Philadelphia Fire Prevention Code) of Title 4 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code," and adopting and incorporating, with certain additions, deletions and amendments, the 2003 International Fire Code as the Philadelphia Fire Code, all under certain terms and conditions. Bill 030777, an ordinance amending Title 4 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code," by adopting and incorporating, with certain additions, deletions and amendments, the 2003 70 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING International Energy Conservation Code as The Philadelphia Energy Conservation Code, under certain terms and conditions. Bill 030778, an ordinance amending Title 4 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code," by adopting and incorporating, with certain additions, deletions and amendments, the 2003 International Existing Building Code as the Philadelphia Existing Building Code, under certain terms and conditions. Bill 030779, an ordinance repealing Subcode B (The Philadelphia Building Code) of Title 4 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code," and adopting and incorporating, with certain additions, deletions and amendments, the "2003 International Building Code" as the Philadelphia Building Code, all under certain terms and conditions. Bill 030780, an ordinance amending Title 4 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled 71 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING "The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code," by amending Subcode A (The Philadelphia Administrative Code), by modifying certain administrative and enforcement provisions, all under certain terms and conditions. Bill 030781, an ordinance repealing Subcode E (The Philadelphia Electrical Code) of Title 4 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code," and adopting and incorporating, with certain additions, deletions and amendments, the 2003 International Electrical Code Administrative Provisions as the Philadelphia Electrical Code, all under certain terms and conditions.
And Bill 030782, an ordinance 19 amending Title 4 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code," by adopting and incorporating, with certain additions, deletions and amendments, the 2003 International Residential Code for One- and Two-Family Dwellings as the Philadelphia 72 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING Residential Code, under certain terms and conditions.
Thank you, Mr. Allen. Can the two witnesses state their name and spell it for the record.
My name is David L. Wismer, W-I-S-M-E-R. I'm Director of Planning and Code Development for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. Good morning, Chairman Mariano and Members of the Committee. Before testifying on the specifics of each bill, I would like to present a brief overview of the 11 bills in the package that was just read.
I'll give the overview once and not repeat. The Building Construction and Occupancy Code it was established by City Council in 1997 in a similar package of ordinances. This Code is a compilation subcodes enforced by the Department. The Code governs building construction, mechanical 73 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING equipment and utility installation, fire protection and prevention, and property conservation through requirements for maintenance of existing premises. The seven subcodes that currently comprise Title 4 of The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code includes Subcode A, the Administrative Code; Subcode B, the Building Code; Subcode E the Electrical Code; Subcode F, the Fire Prevention Code; Subcode M, the Mechanical Code; Subcode P, the Plumbing Code; and Subcode PM, the Property Maintenance Code. In November of 1999, Governor Ridge signed the Pennsylvania Uniform Construction Code Act, Act No. 45, to establish a single code to be applied uniformly across the Commonwealth, and no jurisdiction is exempt under Act 45. The State's regulatory process --
No jurisdiction is exempt under Act 45 from the Pennsylvania 74 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING Uniform Construction Code. In the past, the Fire and Panic Act, which was the State's only code, if you will, exempted cities of the first and second class. The new Act does not. The State's regulatory process under Act 45 is near completion and the Uniform Construction Code is expected to take effect early in 2004. The Uniform Construction Code will adopt most family of the International Codes published by the International Code Council or the ICC. The ICC is a successor model code organization formed by the merger of the former mode code organizations in the United States. Building Officials and Code Administrators International, or BOCA; the International Conference of Building Officials, ICBO; and Southern Building Code Congress International, the SBCCI. The ICC began as a cooperative effort among these three organizations in 1994 and achieved complete status with a total merger of the three organizations into the ICC in February 75 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING this year. The City of Philadelphia has adopted the BOCA model codes, one of those three that formed the merger, the Building and Mechanical Codes of BOCA since 1984, and the BOCA Fire Prevention Code since 1995, and we have subsequently updated the adopted additions, the successor additions to those codes. Our normal update process would have us adopt these 2003 additions of the international codes, whether or not the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania had created the Uniform Construction Code. This is our normal update process of adopting the model code prevalent in the region. The PAUCC or the Pennsylvania Code is adopting 11 of 14 model codes that make up the family of the international codes. Under provisions of Act 45, the Philadelphia Department of Licenses and Inspections is introducing bills to adopt 9 of those 11 codes incorporated in the PAUCC and to modify two locally written codes. This will achieve a seamless regulatory system contained as subcodes within Title 4 of the 76 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING Philadelphia Code, known as the Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code. The Committee should not that adoption of the IC C codes will not result in general increases in the cost of construction in the City of Philadelphia nor the will it alter the way that business is conducted by the Department as it relates to construction and occupancy of buildings. The ICC International Codes very closely resemble the previously adopted BOCA National Codes, both in format and in content. Adoption of the 2003 International Codes is very similar to adoption of a new triennial edition of the BOCA National Codes as we have done if the past for several times. If fact, the newest model codes offer more alternative in design and construction than ever before. And this frequently leads to decreases in the cost of a construction project. To bear these out, designers in buildings have been calling our department over the past two or three years asking, When can we design to the new international codes?" 77 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING As a point of information, the Board of Building Standards has actually granted a variance of general application allowing that to happen prior to the official effective date of the International Codes that we propose here today. You heard the bills read, the 11 9 subcodes that are being adopted or modified, 10 so I will not repeat those. 11 We are aware of Councilman Clarke's proposed amendments to all 11 of the bills and certainly have no objection to that. It's taken from the State language and it, in reality, is the way we administratively enforce the Code when we do adopt a new edition. So we certainly support those amendments. If you want me to address these one at a time -- and we also have a couple editorial amendments to two of the bills.
I note, sir, that you stated that generally there won't be cost 78 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING increases. Are there any cost increases?
None that we can identify at this time. The design provisions that architects and engineers are familiar with and developers are familiar with under the BOCA National Codes are carried forward and there are in a number of cases some additional alternative paths available, and I honestly can't think of a case where there would be increase in cost for a given project.
Do these codes relate only to building requirements and procedures? Do they have anything to do with hourly rates?
Has nothing at all to do with any form of rates that are charged by the construction industry, the trade unions, or any other group.
You further stated that -- I believe we're presenting 9 out 11. Is the requirement that we adopt all of them or are we free to pick and choose?
The Pennsylvania Uniform Construction Code Act states that a 79 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING local jurisdiction may keep existing codes that are equal or exceed the Uniform Construction Code. It is the City Administration's position that the Philadelphia Plumbing Code equals or exceeds the International Plumbing Code and, therefore, we are not proposing adoption of that code. The other code that Pennsylvania is adopting is the Urban Wild Land Interface Code which was written for parts of the country that have dense growth, forested overgrown areas that can tend to become dry and then interface with an urban built-up area. And the attempt is to prevent the kinds of losses that we've seen particularly on the west coast. Pennsylvania has adopted that code in the conditions for setting up criteria for that code, Philadelphia has nothing of the kind and so we are just not adopting that code. It has no relevance to the City and County of Philadelphia.
As I said, it's the 80 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING position that our current plumbing code equals or exceeds the International Plumbing Code and, therefore, we are not adopted that at this time.
The one part of the Plumbing Code that I know has caused a lot of discussion is the question of the kind of tubing, whether it should be copper or plastic in certain areas of construction. And I believe that we require copper. And there's been a point made that that's much more costly, and the reverse point has been made that it's believed that copper is better or safer. But does the International Code pick or choose or does it say both are equally available? What's the position of the International Code?
The International Plumbing Code would allow for use of both of those materials in many applications. And based on the position of the plumbing industry and the City Administration, we believe that probably that lends itself to better treatment in a separate ordinance apart from this 81 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING package.
Are there any steps being taken to prepare a separate ordinance?
I know that the Philadelphia Plumbing Advisory Board is currently studying the Philadelphia Plumbing Code to propose some amendments. I don't know where that will end up going in the future, but that is being studied. And I suspect that there will be action on that sometime in the beginning of next year.
It seems to me a pretty clear case for the use of plastic until I spoke to the president of the plumbers union, and he also had good points as to why plastic was not suitable and the Philadelphia terrain. I'm in no position to make a judgment decision with respect to that. But I expect that the City Council would like to see some really expert testimony on that issue so we can put it to rest.
How soon would 82 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING you expect to find out when it would be expected that something would be able to be presented to Council?
The best information I have from the Plumbing Advisory Board at this time is it should occur in the spring of '04.
Thank you, Councilman cone. Any other Council People have questions before Dave gets into this? Dave, you want to get into every one of these?
My pleasure is to get it over with. Anyone have any questions on particular -- we can take every one of these apart and talk about electrical codes and building codes. Anybody?
I have one 83 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING question.
With respect to the Fire Code, some religious groups have raised a question about the impact on religious ceremonies by the prohibition on the passing of candle lights. Do you have any comment with respect to that? There's a prohibition on the ability to transfer from person to person lit candles, and that's a part of certain religious ceremonies, I know in the Jewish faith and some other faiths.
Good morning. My name is Richard Bailey, Battalion Chief with the Philadelphia Fire Department. Bailey is spelled B-A-I-L-E-Y. I am the Chief Code Official for Fire Department in charge of the Fire Department's Fire Code Unit. It is felt by codes in general in the Fire Department that passing of lighted 84 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING candles within buildings is unsafe so that provision has been kept in the Fire Code. It is in the current Fire Code and is in the proposed Fire Code. We feel it's an unsafe practice.
We're not going to be at the synagog or at one of the Catholic churches or and church and getting people at Christmas for passing candles up and down the aisle, right.
Well, let me say that enforcement of the Codes is typically done with common sense.
Would there be anything wrong with an amendment to say that there will be special consideration given or that this provision has no application to the passage of candles during religious ceremonies? Because I've never heard of any 85 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING fire resulted during religious ceremonies.
Councilman, with all due respect, I haven't heard of any candle arrests yet either.
I have not heard of any fires that were a direct result of people passing them either. But I assume that there are some national statistics since it was placed in the Code. Locally in Philadelphia, I'm not aware of a problem.
I'm concern because -- I'll accept your word about common sense, but some day there might be others in a important position that may be busy when common sense is handed out and may not get their share.
I would suspect the Supreme Court would hear about that if they shut down a religious ceremony because candles.
The representative from Licenses and Inspections has indicated to me, who is the primary enforcing arm of this, that they only do things like this on a 86 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING case-by-case basis. We are not aware that anyone has ever been issued a violation for this.
Well, I was wondering whether the Department would propose am amendment. I don't want handcuff them. And I don't know of every religious ceremony, but I think there ought to be some provision indicating that there will be special consideration given to use of lighted candles during religious ceremonies. You know, that it may be permitted under certain circumstances?
Well, there are some things in the Code that are placed there -- well, you're bringing up the instance where a variance would be granted or on the Fire Department or the Department of Licenses and Inspections would grant an exception for a particular instance. We do this occasionally for the Chinese New Year where they will use strings of fire crackers for a marriage 87 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING ceremony.
What do you do like the fireworks down at the Vet? They're illegal but the get permits to do it because professionals come in and --
Can't we just amend the code to say "Under certain terms and conditions," and then administratively Licenses and Inspections can specify the incidents where this will be allowed so we don't have to get into legislation. My concern is if you require permits, then you're just adding another level of bureaucracy to the Code.
You could do something like that saying that "where approved by the Department."
And then the Department itself can administratively as opposed to creating another -- 88 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING
It would be a matter of them sending us a letter and saying that "We generally do this on these occasions. We would like permission to do it throughout the year." We would talk to them. We do this on other matters and issue them a letter of approval to do it.
It's in the Jewish religion that occurs mostly during our Passover ceremonies. And in the course of seven days we light seven different candles and during Hanukah, which is yet to come. There are other religions I know, I think the Catholic religion does it at some occasion and other groups do too.
And I think they're all very careful and they're all aware of the danger
Can we get a recommendation maybe from Mr. Haigler from L&I as to --
I'd feel better 89 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING if you inserted the language because we're not looking to create a problem for. We're looking to avoid a problem.
I think Councilman Clarke raises the mechanism. We may just want to hear from Mr. Haigler in terms of what L&I would like to do with this in concert with what Councilman Cohen is saying. He clearly wants this to come from the department and have them with a comfort level. And I agree with Councilman Clarke, we may not want to overly complicate it legislatively and just leave it to the Department. I think that gives the discretion that Councilman Cohen is trying to get to.
Otis Haigler, Jr., Legislator of Regulatory Affairs Manager for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. As Chief Bailey indicated, there are mechanisms currently in place to deal with this on a case-by-case basis. If it's brought to our attention that somebody wants to use candles in a service or a particular activity, we could administratively handle that. One 90 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING way to do that is through a variance of general application through the Board of Safety and Fire Prevention. The person can go and get a permission request from the Board. They would present exactly how they are going to do the activity and what safety measures they're going to put in place to handle any situation that might arise. The safety measure could be simply placing proper fire extinguishers in proper locations so that if something were to ---
Would they have to do that on every individual event? I think what we're trying to get language that administratively --
Excuse, Councilman. Can't we just delete this sentence, the candle part?
Mr. Chairman, first of all I think the discussion got away from what the ordinance says. We're not talking about the use of candles. The ordinance only talks about passing lighted candles from one person to another. 91 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING What I would like to understand is two things, and we may be able to deal with this rather readily. Is that ever done very commonly except by the celebrants of the service?
Many times -- and not to be an expert in the Catholic faith, but it's my experience that at certain things like at weddings you could have in there where you and bride can light a candle, but there are other ceremonies like there's evangelical parts of the Catholic religion that has candles as a main part of what they would do in a ceremony. I mean, you could light candle and I could pass it to him and he would pass it to her. So you are passing candles. I've been at peace rallies where they passed candles, and I've been at other things where they passed candles.
I mean, if that's an issue, one relatively easy fix, and Chief Bailey alluded to it also, would be -- this is on of Bill 030776, and it's item F-308.3.5 about the middle of the page. At 92 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING the end of that sentence, it would be, I think, meet the intent if we just put a comma there and said "Except with approval of the Department."
Well, we don't want to create the need for getting permission to do so.
Councilman Nutter actually passed me language that said, "Except as provided in accordance with regulations determined by the Department of Licenses and Inspections."
Councilman Mariano, I have a couple more issues. With respect to multi-family dwellings, are there additional restrictions on the conversion of single dwelling to multiple-family dwellings? Because with unemployment growing, there seems to be an increasing need for family units to incorporate other family units, and so many 93 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING single-family homes are being required for the living conditions for two families. Say, the children that become unemployed by the likes of the Wal-Mart. Is anybody here favoring Wal-Mart? But in line of the Brookin's Institute finding, and I'm concerned about that. Again, there, I think we have to use some common sense.
Adoption of the 2003 International Codes will be adding no new requirements for establishment of multiple-family dwellings or duplexes.
And actually, that's a requirement of zoning. You would have to go through the zoning process in order to do that type of conversion. So we're not amending anything as far as this package.
Right. We're not advocating anything to do that, and this package has nothing to do with the Zoning Code. 94 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING
There is one provision referring to trash. And I wanted to know, Section PM 3033.1 in Bill 030774, you're requiring that each resident unit be prepared to deal with some trash. I'm not sure what that means. We have some condo trash problems in which the Administration and the Council don't quite see eye to eye, and I just wanted to make sure that it doesn't in any way impact on that situation.
This is all current language. The only reason that that section 14 appears in the code is to do the editorial fix in the exception to get rid of the term "Use Groups" and call it "Group R3," but we're making no amendments to that provision of the current PM Code.
Any other 95 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING questions?
Thank you very much. Good morning, gentlemen. I'm please to see more and more L&I is seeking to bring City regulations for family child care providers in compliance or making them more consistent with state regulations. And to that end, in your testimony, you mentioned in one paragraph that modified provisions for family child care facilities to comply with State Administrative regulations. What does that mean?
There are two of the subcodes that have virtually identical sections in them, the Building Code and the Fire Code. In the Fire Code, it's Section 22 F-410; in the Building Code, B-420. Actually, the Department of Labor and Industry heard very clearly from the day care advocate community and modified their original 96 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING proposals. And the current administrative regulations that are in their final stage of becoming effective as we sit here have relinquished all of their more stringent provisions and their confusing language, and they have now basically established the same definitions as are found in the model codes and in fact have expanded the opportunity from physical standpoint -- again, it doesn't affect zoning, but in terms of the building requirements, family day care can now be established up to 12 children with the family day care provisions.
And we have made no 21 changes to what the State has proposed. It appears as new text in our two ordinances because it is new and expanded in the City of Philadelphia and restates a number of provisions, such as for the fire extinguishers 97 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING and egress that we've had in the current code.
And I might add that in the preamble to the Administrative Enforcement regulations that's to be adopted by the Department of Labor and Industry, they make mention that they had heard from over 8 witnesses' statements from the child care 9 community regarding this issue as well as some 10 legislators regarding this hissing issue, so 11 we wanted to make that known that your efforts 12 have been addressed, heard and addressed. 13
They've been 14 fighting in a positive way for a long time to 15 make those two worlds consistent because 16 they've served as barriers for a family child 17 care provider, so this is a major development. 18 Thank you. 19
Thank you, Councilwoman. Councilman Cohen has another question?
One more question. I don't know whether it applies to 98 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING these bills or whether there would have to be a different procedure use, but there's been a lot of questions raised by developers when we query them as to why is the cost of construction as high as it is in the City compared to suburbs. And they say, well, in the suburbs there is something they call a residential rate set by -- I don't by whether it's by law or by labor by whom. But is there such a thing and are you familiar with it? And is there any work being done in Philadelphia to bring about the inclusion of the so-called residential rate?
I think we're talking about the Davis Bacon Law. There's a Davis Bacon in the United States. And just let me answer it and Mr. Wismer can say. From what I understand, there's Davis Bacon and there's a little Davis Bacon. That's set by predominately the type of construction work. In your case, we're talking about residential that's done in the area, if it's union or non-union. If most of it, like 80 percent of it is done by union, the Davis Bacon and the 99 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING prevailing wage becomes union; if not, it becomes non-union. I think the problem in Philadelphia the way I see, this is just my opinion, having some experience in this industry, is Philadelphia really doesn't have a construction rate. Therefore, it's hard to go for a residential prevailing rate. In the suburbs it's easier because most of the residential work is done non-union. In Philadelphia, the residential work is done by union. And I will tell you from my experience in the construction industry, contractors, much like other people, never make enough money and they have to blame somebody. They can't blame the people the buy the material from because union or non-union pretty much pay the same price for material, depending how much you're buying. And at this point in the part of the country, it's organized labor. That's the way I see it as the Chairman of this Committee. It's a great question, Councilman. Dave, if you want to take a shot at 100 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING that, go ahead.
You're exactly correct, Mr. Chairman. It relates to labor rates. And our adoption of these Codes or maintenance of our current Codes makes no difference. The Codes in no way address or deal with any form of labor rate or charges for construction. And I've heard -- in fact, a few years ago, I Chaired a committee of developers and architects looking at the issues of the effective codes on the cost of construction. And to a person, everyone on that cast group is not the Code itself that drives up those costs; it's other related issues. It may be rates. It may be the funding overlays. Some of it has to do with zoning provisions, but the technical codes relating to construction are not the issue.
I was wondering or not in Philadelphia there ought not to be -- or maybe there already is -- some kind of process whereby we can get the answers instead of just having the questions in that area. Somebody ought to find out how do we compete 101 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING with the suburbs and new buildings; is there anything to this residential rate? Instead of having, Well, maybe it's this, maybe it's that. Is there any procedure, is there any department that you're familiar with in L&I or in any other area that deal with this issue?
See, but Labor and Standards -- if I may. Labor and Standards just enforces what we make as rules. So we can set the prevailing rates here, but we have to go by the Constitution of the United States, as you know, and by the State of Pennsylvania and the laws we have in Philadelphia. Look, I'm going to go out on a limb here. This isn't organized labor problem; this is the contractor's problem. And as far as this goes, this Code, this Code makes it easier and clearer. There's been a lot of 102 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING hard work put into this Code. It's simple. We can take someone right out of Drexel University and say, "Look, you don't know anything about the electrical business, you don't know anything about the plumbing business; he does and I do. But you know how to run a business and you know numbers. You bid on this job." There's a formula, you buy a CD, you put it in, you mark everything off, somebody goes out and measures and they figure it by square footage and they sit down and my overhead may be a lot lower than his. We can do something. We have to sit down as a Council and industry and talk to these people. I think there has been some talks. Councilman Cohen, you're absolutely right, lower rates costs for housing for the people that need it in the City of Philadelphia, I'd be willing to help you with that anytime.
I want to say four months ago we adopted a policy locally to some degree, a large degree actually, put us 103 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING in a more competitive situation where they passed a resolution that authorized or allowed any market rate purchase of land from the Redevelopment Authority for that developer to negotiate whatever rate they can get from the particular union, as in past practices, the Redevelopment Authority required that any land disposed by the Redevelopment Authority be prevailing rate. So now, if an individual developer purchases a parcel of land or utilizes the Redevelopment Authority to purchase the land using its powers of condemnation, if they pay market value for the land, they're no longer required to pay prevailing rates to those individual contractors. They have the ability to negotiate, as in one case in a development in my district, a B scale rate for labor and it makes it more affordable.
It's definitely a good deal. My last thing on this, from my 20-some years in this industry -- longer than that since I was 18, I'm 48, so do the math. 104 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING People want to make money. These contractors invest big money in these things. So besides what Councilman Clarke said about the RDA, they're in it for the money. They're not in it for like you and I Council People are to try to help people, they're in it to make money. It's to business with them. It doesn't make it right. They have to make -- and what they think what they have to make is a lot more than what you and I would think they have to make. There's a lot of little things that go on like the Councilman just said about RDA. Community development corporations can purchase land from the City at a very cheap cost and they can work at a sub-union rate. It's been done. It's been in the Norris Square area, it's been done in other places in my district. That's what has to be done. But it's definitely a need for housing. And it's easy for the papers to blame the building trades because they blame them for everything, but at this point, I've got to tell you from an insider it's not totally the building trades. Thank you, 105 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING Councilman. Any other questions on this?
Mr. Mariano, before finishing, I did submit the testimony on all the bills and then we won't bother reading that into the record.
Councilman Nutter has read it all several times, and he will explain it to us later if we really need it. Right, Councilman?
If I just may, that's why we have one guy from St. Joe Prep on every committee, because they do all the reading tell us all about it. (Laughter.)
I have three what are really editorial amendments. Two of them are to Bill No. 030776, the Fire Subcode Bill. The first is on . And on appears Section F-1417, and below that Subsection F-1417.1, in both cases that 106 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING section number should be 1418. There is already a 1417. That was a typo. On of the same bill, at the top of the page is a continuing paragraph. In the fourth line of that paragraph, the third last word appears as "used," U-S-E-D. That should be "user," U-S-E-R. And finally, on Bill No. 030780, the Administrative Code Bill, on , nearly halfway down the page is section A-802.2.1.3. In the fourth line of that section in the middle is a reference to Section A-302.1.1. That should read A-302.1.2. I apologize for those errors, but on the other hand, out of such a big package, three is not too bad.
Mr. Chairman, I would also like to note that I will be offering amendments on all bills. I think your Clerk has actually circulated the bills. They essentially allow any property owner or developer or individual who has 107 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING already pulled a permit application or had construction drawings done, not to be subject to this new legislation; they would be subject to the old legislation.
Mr. Chairman, Members of the Committee, my name is Gray Smith. I'm a architect practicing in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. I'm located in Philadelphia. I had the honor of participating in 1998, '99 and 2000 on two of the national committees that the International Code Council and BOCA and all of its predecessors had put together to discuss amendments to various Codes. It's a very exciting operation, and to participate in helping to develop national codes to protect our citizens is quite an honor and the professionalism of it is at the highest level. I have some simple statements to make today about very complex issues which are 108 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING before you. Each of these Codes that you're considering today is about this thick (indicating). So it's not just the ordinances, it's the codes themselves that are important so the complexity is monumental. And those of us like myself, as an architect who deal with them every day appreciate the process that goes into developing them, and then on a local level the utilization of them. And when this these ordinances and amendments are adopted, it will be a great day for the design and construction industry in Philadelphia because we will truly be in the 21st Century in this aspect of our management of our City. We will have virtually the same codes as we have state-wide. Right now there are 2300 different code systems in the State of Pennsylvania. And ours will be the same as everybody else's. Not only that, it will be approximately the same as that in New Jersey who uses the same body of model codes as well as the rest of the states that surround us. So those of us who practice with codes on a daily basis will be designing everywhere from 109 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING essentially the same set of books rather than from hundreds and hundreds of different books. And I'm glad to see Philadelphia is even I'm beating the State with respect to adoption of these Codes. The only one slight concern I would have is the permitting process, which for those of us who have to deal with it and some of your constituents have complained about it, the Code permitting process, the Building permitting process in Philadelphia right now is still somewhat medieval and difficult, particularly if you have to spend the two to three hours it takes down at the concourse level to run that gantlet. The new permitting process I'm really not familiar with, but it is mandated to some degree by State regulations and it will be what it is. And hopefully in the profession have to deal with it, lawyers, contractors, engineers will help a role to play in helping streamline that process. But more important today, what I wanted to say was the amount of work that went 110 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING into this development certainly by Chief Bailey's office and his efforts, and he's been involved in Codes for years, and I very much appreciate that. But most important, however, I want -- and I believe I speak for the entire architectural profession in this region. Passage of these bills is a testament to Dave Wismer's incredible work for the City of Philadelphia over the last 37 years. Dave has been the Code guru for Philadelphia, for L&I, for the profession of architects and engineers, for contractors, for lawyers. Anybody who has a Code question, Dave can answer it. He's truly a national treasure right here in Philadelphia. His role on a national level with the BOCA organization, with the International Code Council has been absolutely sterling and honorable. And what he's brought back to Philadelphia is more valuable than any salary or pension that he may ever receive to all of us.
And I would like the record to show today an overt appreciation for the work that Dave has done over the years and particularly the work that 111 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING he's done in bringing us tot he 21st Century with respect to this code system, this family of Codes that we're getting ready to use in Philadelphia. And I just want to applaud him myself because I deal with Codes every day and happen to be a kind of a nut about Codes. And to see the system in place will be quite rewarding for all of us who have to deal with it on a local level. So thank you, Dave. And thank you for considering it and giving it the passage that I'm sure it's going to get.
Mr. Chairman, I have an obligation that's now 15 late, so I'd like to recorded as voting yes on the bills, as amended.
Thank you, Councilwoman. You may leave. 112 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING
S-T-R-U-P. I'm the current Vice President of Philadelphia Chapter 8 of the American Society of Heating, Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Engineers. We thoroughly endorse everything that is being put forward. Councilman Clark, I believe it is?
The one comment that I had, and I do endorse your recommendation. There as has been to be a dividing line between the adoption of the new Codes and existing, but there definitely should be a timeline set, whatever is agreeable so that the new Codes do actually take effect at a timeline and given some consideration to existing permits that are adopted.
I have been contacted as Chairman of this Committee and they explained all that, so we understand. We 113 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC HEARING just can't cut those people off, but when we do this, there is a point where they have to comply, and it's short. It's in your amendment, right, Councilman?
He has an amendment ready, so I think you will be happy with it.
But overall, the professional societies, we believe, stand behind David and everybody else in endorsing the new Codes be adopted.
Thank you, sir. Any questions for this witness? (No response.)
Seeing none. That looks like it. That will close the public hearing for the second time. - - - - 114 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC MEETING COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES - - - - Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - - - - Public meeting conducted by the Committee on Streets and Services, held in Room 696, City Hall, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on the above date, to consider action on the following: BILLS 030772, 030773, 030774, 030775, 030776, 030777, 030778, 030779, 030780, 030781, 030782. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD MARIANO, Chair COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILMAN MICHAEL NUTTER 115 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING
We'll go into the public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke for a motion on Bill 030772.
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion for an amendment to Bill No. 030772. (Duly seconded.)
It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor of the amendment, say aye. (Aye.)
It passes. The other two Council People left their votes, Reynolds Brown and Krajewski. Back to Councilman Clarke.
Councilman, I just want to make sure. The amendments to the L&I editorial amendments are only to three bills, am I correct? Two bills?
This is actually 116 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING on 030772.
030772 is fine. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to motion that Bill No. 030772, as amended, be reported out of Committee with favorable recommendation and request for a suspension of the Rules as to allow first reading at the next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
A motion has been made and seconded. All those in favor? (Aye.)
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to a motion for an amendment to Bill 117 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING No. 030773. (Duly seconded.)
There's been a motion made for an amendment of this Bill 6 030773 and it's been seconded. All those in favor? (Aye.)
Seeing none, the ayes have it. The bill is amended. Councilman Clarke.
Mr. Chairman, I think Councilman Nutter had a question.
Mr. Chairman, I just want to make sure we put on the record that the amendments that Councilman Clarke is making reference to, these amendments were circulated to all Members. All Members of the Committee have the amendments that we're proposing.
Thank you, Councilman. You're right, they have been circulated and everybody has them. 118 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that Bill 030773, as amended be reported out of Committee with favorable recommendation and request for a suspension of the Rules as to allow reading at the next session. (Duly seconded.)
There's been a motion and seconded that Bill 030773, as amended, with a suspension of the rules be favorably passed. All those in favor? (Aye.)
Thank you, MR. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion for an amendment to Bill No. 030774. (Duly seconded.)
It's been seconded, an amendment to 030774 has been 119 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING seconded. All those in favor? (Aye.)
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that Bill No. 11 030774, as amended, be reported out of Committee with favorable recommendation and request for a suspension of the Rules as to allow reading at the next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
Bill 030774, as amended, with a suspension of the Rules has been seconded. All those in favor? (Aye.)
The ayes have it. 120 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to make a motion for an amendment to Bill No. 030775. (Duly seconded.)
The motion is to amend Bill 030775. It has been duly seconded. All those favor of this amendment? (Aye.)
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I make a motion that Bill No. 19 030775, as amended, be reported out Committee with favorable recommendation and a request for a suspension of the Rules as to allow reading at the next Session. (Duly seconded.)
Bill 030775, as amended, with a request for the suspension of 121 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING the Rules has been seconded. All those in favor opposed? (Aye.)
Seeing none, the bill, as amended, passes. Councilman Clarke.
Mr. Chairman, I believe there are two amendments on this particular bill -- actually three. I'll read one and I'm assuming that Councilman Nutter will read the other.
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion for the three amendments that have been read into the record in the public hearing to Bill No. 030776. (Duly seconded.) 122 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING
Bill 030776, there's a motion to amend it with these three amendments. It's been seconded. All those in favor of these three amendments? (Aye.)
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that Bill No. 030776 be reported out of Committee, as amended, with favorable recommendation and a request for suspension of the Rules. (Duly seconded.)
Bill 030776, as amended, with a request for a suspension of rules has been seconded. All those in favor of this bill, as amended. (Aye.)
Seeing none, 123 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING ayes have it. The bill is passed. Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to make a motion on an amendment to Bill No. 030777. (Duly seconded.)
The amendment on Bill 030777 has been seconded. All those in favor of the amendment to this bill? (Aye.)
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that Bill No. 20 030777, as amended, be reported out of Committee with favorable recommendation and a request for a suspension of the rules as to allow reading at the next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
The motion is 124 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING that Bill 030777, as amended, with a request for the suspension of Rules has been duly seconded. All those in favor, say aye. (Aye.)
Seeing none, the bill, as amended, with suspension of the Rules is passed. Councilman Clarke.
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion for an amendment to Bill No. 030778. (Duly seconded.)
A motion by Councilman Clarke for 030778 to be amended. All those in favor? (Aye.)
The bill is amended. Back to Councilman Clarke. 125 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to make a motion that Bill 4 No. 030778, as amended, be reported out of Committee with favorable recommendation and request for suspension of the Rules as to allow reading at the next Session. (Duly seconded.)
The motion has been seconded for Bill 030778, as amended, with a favorable recommendation and suspension of the Rules. All those in favor? (Aye.)
Seeing none, it passes as amended. Councilman Clarke.
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion for an amendment to Bill No. 030779. (Duly seconded.)
The motion was for Bill 030779 to be amended. It was duly 126 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING seconded. All those in favor, aye. (Aye.)
Seeing none, 030779 is amended. Back to Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to make a motion that Bill 12 030779, as amended, be reported out of Committee with favorable recommendation and request for suspension of the Rules as to allow reading at the next section of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been seconded. The motion is Bill 030779, as amended, with a request for suspension of rules be voted out with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor? (Aye.)
Opposed? (No response.) 127 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING
Seeing none, it is passed, as amended, with a suspension of Rules. Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to make a motion on two amendments, one as read into the record by the Department, and editorial amendment, and one that has been circulated by this body, to Bill 11 030780. (Duly seconded.)
It has been seconded, and the motion is Bill 030780 be amended by two amendments. All those in favor? (Aye.)
Seeing none, 030780 is amended. Back to Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, MR. Chairman. I make a motion that Bill No. 25 030780 be reported out of Committee, as 128 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING amended, with favorable recommendation and a request for a suspension of the Rules as to allow reading at the next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
The motion has been duly seconded. Bill 030780 with two amendments and with suspension of the Rules be favorably passed out of Committee. All those in favor? (Aye.)
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion for an amendment to Bill No. 030781. (Duly seconded.)
It has been duly seconded, the motion to amend 030781. All those in favor? (Aye.)
Opposed? 129 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING (No response.)
Seeing none, Bill 030781 is amended. Back to Councilman Clarke.
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that Bill No. 8 030781, as amended, be reported out of Committee with favorable recommendation and request for rules suspension as to allow reading at the next session. (Duly seconded.)
As been heard, the motion is on Bill 030781, as amended, with a favorable recommendation, be voted out of Committee a favorable recommendation. All those in favor, aye. (Aye.)
Seeing none, it's passed favorably. Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, MR. Chairman. I'd like to make a motion for an 130 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING amendment to Bill No. 030782. (Duly seconded.)
The motion has been duly seconded on Bill 030782 to amend that bill. All those in favor of this amendment? (Aye.)
Seeing none, Bill 030782 is amended and. Back to Councilman Clarke.
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that Bill No. 17 030782, as amended, be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and request for Rules suspension as to allow reading at the next Session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
The motion has been duly seconded that bill 030782, as amended, be voted favorably out of Committee with a suspension of the Rules. 131 12/10/03 - STREETS - PUBLIC MEETING All those in favor? (Aye.)
None. It passes. This concludes the public meeting. Thank you very much. (Council adjourned at 11:30 a.m.) 132 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of December 10, 2003, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. RE: COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES _________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR