That's correct.
they haven't allowed to speak
Mr. Pennington could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
sure it's Chris Pennington
C-H-R-I-S
P-E-N-N-I-N-G-T-O-N
you swear or affirm to tell the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the truth
please proceed counsel
Chris did you draft a letter and sign it for me last week
that I submitted to the board
I did yes
And are the statements there true and correct and you'd adopt them as your testimony?
Can you just briefly give the board a little bit of background about your experience in commercial real estate specific to Philadelphia and Maniunk as well?
I'm a senior vice president and partner at the Binzo Anger Company.
I've been selling real estate for 21 years, have completed over a thousand transaction transactions for about a four billion dollar volume and have done a number of different transactions in the Maniunk area area and surrounding areas in the greater Philadelphia market as well.
And is it accurate that you've testified before this board about a dozen times?
And were you retained by the owner of this property in March of 2021?
Yes, I was.
And is it correct that the owner of the property entered into a contract with Andrew Langsom in November of 2021?
So that means that this property was on the market for about nine months. Is that right?
Yes, it was.
What can you tell me about the marketing efforts you engaged in with this property?
As we discussed before, and like all properties that we handle in the greater Philadelphia market, we gather all of the property information and create marketing materials that we distribute to prospective buyers.
We send that out to our proprietary list of, in this case, end users and those groups that could use the property for what it is and conform with zoning.
We place it on our Binswanger website, on CoStar and on LoopNet, and we send it out to all of the brokers that are very active in our marketplace.
And did you want to find a conforming use here under the code or were you looking for a use that required a variance?
Yeah, the goal of the seller here was to find somebody to purchase the property as a end user.
So we would not have to go through any of the variance proceedings that we're in now.
That was that was the from the outset of this. That was the goal.
And is that the goal for the owner as well as you, because it benefits both of you financially to sell it quickly?
Well, I mean, as a commercial real estate broker, we get paid when we close things.
So, yeah, that would be beneficial if we could sell quickly.
And did the seller here only enter into the purchase agreement with Andy Langsam once you determined that you had exhausted the reasonable efforts to find an as-of-right user?
And when marketing this property, what were some of the unique attributes of the property that impacted the ability to find an as-of-right user?
that impacted the ability to find an as-of-right user?
Well, we've already...
Well, we've already made mention of a lot of them.
The ability to get delivery trucks of any kind into this location,
whether it be for a commercial or an industrial use,
is severely hampered by the length of the property.
In conjunction with the fact that it's up a hill,
there's very little parking,
and a number of the different macroeconomic factors that go into the development of this site
and building a building led us to Andy.
Okay. And everything that Dennis talked about as far as site challenges,
were those things that made it impossible to find an As-of-Right user?
and did you in fact market this to every single um icmx as a right user that you could find
yeah i mean we we when we go through a marketing process we study the code look at icmx and see
people that can have direct utility of this property in this instance it would be business
offices, professional offices, self-storage, mixed-use, artisan studios, wholesale sales
distribution, and a number of other different types of uses that would be allowable by code.
And did you make specific efforts to try and find a self-storage user?
We did. We've done a number of different transactions all over the City of Philadelphia
offer for self-storage. We thought that given the proximity to Main Street, that that could be an
opportunity for a self-storage developer to go there and construct a building by right.
And what else can you tell me about the vacancies for commercial spaces on Main Street and how that
affected the marketing of this property? Well, there's still a number of different vacancies
all up and down Main Street from a retail slash commercial standpoint.
And they're a much more viable location.
A lot of them have parking on both sides of the street.
They're existing buildings.
In our case, if we were to go commercial or industrial in conformance with ICMX,
we would have to construct a building where interest rates were and are now
with a cost of construction.
It's very prohibitive to build that building when you have so many different other options that are standing available for lease as well.
And did you perform an analysis to confirm that, in fact, it would be cross-prohibitive to build a new building here for commercial or industrial use?
Yeah, we had our construction management group and property management group take a look at it.
If you were to construct, let's just say, a 5,000 square foot building on this location with the cost of construction site work, all I need probably be somewhere at around $175 to $200 a square foot.
But when you combine that with the cost to acquire the land as well, I think that it's just tremendously onerous on any type of user to spend that much money when you could perhaps lease a building down the street on Main Street for a lot less.
When you run calculations on a pro forma, if an investor or developer were building this building, you'd probably have to rent it out for like $40 a square foot, which is not market for Manio.
So I think that's called it.
If you're an end user as well, you've got to lease it to yourself and go find financing.
And those type of things are difficult right now to swallow when we're 600 basis points higher than when we started with introverts.
So, I mean, so just to summarize what I've heard from you then, you engage in exhaustive efforts and they failed, but you don't believe that you would have been able to rent this property anyway. Is that right? Or sell it?
Yeah, I think that for all those macroeconomic factors and where we are overall in the Manny Young market and greater Philadelphia commercial office slash retail market, the state of that right now is very uncertain.
And I think that for all those reasons, we led us to put this under agreement with Andrew.
And I wanted to clarify one point just to rebut exactly what the RCO had said in one of its letters.
Counsel, we need you to wrap this up.
It's getting a little too long, Counsel.
Yeah, it's. You've been on here for almost 40 minutes. You got it. You got to wrap it up.
Yeah, it's.
You've been on here for almost 40 minutes.
You got it.
You got it.
OK, we will we will speed this along.
Got two more minutes. You got two more minutes, sir. You got to move on.
We got other cases and other folks are in line.
I will call our our next witness then.
Who's next witness?
our next witness will be um you know what let me call uh brian brian corkidillas he's not my
witness but i understand he has a hard stop and i wanted him to have a who's witness is he he's a
member of the community that that was just texting say saying he has a hard stop and he wanted to be
to testify okay but you you it'll be if he's in favor of the project right he's in favor yes
all right bring him on please brian brian has been allowed to speak all right sir could you
please state your name and spell for the stenographer sure uh brian cork delis uh b-r-i-a-n
last name cork delis c-o-r-c-o-d-i-l-o-s you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth
nothing but the truth. I do. Please proceed, counsel. Yeah, Brian, I don't have any questions
for you, but if you can just explain to the board why you support this project, I'd appreciate it.
Yeah, sure. First, I'll start as almost a near neighbor here. I own a property at 4100 Main
Street, which is roughly about 120 feet from here. Just from the standpoint of being a near neighbor,
this property right now is currently used as an illegal parking lot where people park overnight.
Um, just from a safety concern, I just wanted to bring up back in October of 2023, there was an incident at the corner of Schurz and Main Street, uh, involving BB guns with college students.
Um, just being a member of community who I talked to, uh, I was told that these BBs had a high likely chance that they came from the abandoned building on that site.
Um, so realistically, I want to see something done with that site.
Honestly, I'd like to see a property close to the Main Street corridor that is usable by residents and has commercial activity, not just to those that park overnight.
And safety is number one priority.
I don't want abandoned buildings close to the Main Street corridor.
As a commercial property owner, I can also speak to the hardship of just finding large commercial tenants at the moment that are willing to invest their businesses given the economic factors here.
I know Mr. Langston's site, I drive by it every day to and from the office.
Uh, it's just a challenge. You can't pull trucks in there. Uh, you know, obviously you could pull
smaller stuff like Amazon deliveries, but you know, you're not pulling an 18 wheeler in there.
You'll be backing up traffic. Um, I also don't want to see it become a large facility, a large
storage facility. We have enough of those in main street on either end of the corridor down on
Leverington. We have a storage facility and also on the other side of main street, we have a storage
facility. I know that's a buy, right use. I do not want to see that there at the corner of main
Street. I can also assure you that those large commercial spaces that are over 2,000 square feet
are just hard to rent at the moment. There's a plethora of vacancies on Main Street. But I also
think the small commercial that Langston is proposing, that 900 square foot, is actually
viable. As a commercial business owner right across the street there, I'm renting out to
small mom and pop businesses. I don't foresee that additional 42 units here is going to be
detrimental to our community as a whole. I see it as 45 to 55 patrons showing support
for local mom and pop businesses and retail and restaurants on Main Street. They may even visit
a mom and pop business in my building called Inspired Movements, who's a 600 square foot
Pilates studio run by a woman named Adrienne that these tenants are going to go to. I'd also like
to touch on the moment of a board member of Manioc Development Corp. I know a letter of support was
granted for this project, specifically because Mr. Langston added commercial to this project.
For the NBC, our mission is to improve the commercial corridor. We see this as a potential
spot where someone could get out of the gate as a business here in 900 square feet and potentially
move to a larger space on the corridor itself. So I believe it definitely supports the business as
a hole in the business corridor. And just again, you know, as a business owner, I employ over 100
employees on Main Street between my businesses. I run multiple businesses. I can assure you that
we do have a housing shortage in the city. And I believe that we also need additional options for
housing to employ my employees as well as others in the city. What I like, and lastly, what I like
about Main Street is proximity to live and work here. You know, residential buildings and small
businesses make Maniunk the best places to live, work, and play. I personally believe that Andy's
project contributes to most of those here from a live and work standpoint, and I personally support it.
to most of those here from a live and work standpoint, and I personally support it in my
capacity. Thank you. Thank you. I want to call my client to adopt my testimony and add a couple
small points. Okay. Let me ask this. Do you have any other people after that? Are you done?
I had my architect here if we wanted to walk through the plans, but it doesn't sound like
we have the time for that, so I'm going to skip past him, unless the board would like me to walk
the architect. No, no, please. I mean, I think you went over that. Fine. Why don't you bring
your client on and adopt your testimony? Andy Langsam, raise your hand, please.
Andrew has been allowed to speak.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Yes, Andrew Langsam, A-N-D-R-E-W, Langsam, L-A-N-G-S-A-M.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Yeah. Andy, can you just in 10 seconds tell the board your experience with developing multifamily in Manion?
Yes. Just real quick. I've been developing multifamily here for the past 10 years.
I've completed four successful multifamily projects in the area.
And this site was a site that I really liked and really felt that we could create a quality project.
One of the things that I wanted to share just very quickly here is that, you know, when we were going through this project, the first time we presented it, we presented it at 45 units.
We didn't really do a great job reaching out to the community.
That's why this time around, we really actually spent time in the community.
We went back to the RCO.
We went back to the MDC.
We went to the MSSD.
We spoke with all the neighbors to really kind of get people's feedback.
After we did all that, we really understood that people wanted a commercial aspect.
Everybody that I spoke to was happy to have the multifamily piece, but all they stated
was they really wanted to have the commercial.
So with that being said, we went back and we reduced the number of multifamily units
from 45 to 43 and added the commercial space.
And I just created some numbers to put together.
So Andrew, just so you know, we've had testimony about that.
We've heard about the commercial space.
We understand that you went back.
We understand the first time, you know, maybe you could have done better and where you stand now.
So I think what we need to do is get the testimony adopted.
Andy, let me get the testimony adopted and have you confirm that this is the least relief under the zoning code.
Andy, did you hear the statements I made?
Are they true, correct, and accurate?
And did you adopt them as your own?
And I wanted to just touch upon your, did you engage in a financial analysis that concluded
that 42 residential units is the least number of units you could have here?
Yes, I did.
Can you just share your conclusions with the board very briefly, like 10 seconds?
Yeah, just very quickly, total project cost was about $10.1 million.
We were going to use a construction loan at around $7.5 million, an interest rate of $8.25
with our annual debt service and operating expenses.
we came up with a debt service coverage ratio of 1.2, which was the minimum allowable by our bank
to finance this project. And Andy, can you also confirm that you and I reviewed the zoning records
and that a variance was granted for an ICMX property in about the year 2020 at the property
at 3811 Main Street for 36 commercial units with five, sorry, 36 residential units with five
commercial on the ground floor. Is that right? Yes, that is correct. And that property was a