Does anybody ever talk about them in the context of, are there job opportunities for young people after school, weekends, summer, with some of these entities that would have the youth employment? 79 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223
I -- I -- I don't believe there has been, historically, no. 4
Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
I had to check my watch. Mr. Hankowsky, I'd like to ask you a question about the process in determining whether or not you actually sit down and develop a TIF ordinance and then send it to us. And I guess I want to ask a question more specifically about the type of job creation these TIFs have created across the board, the types of job -- retail, hotel, hospitality-related and in some instances, I think some other types of industry. And I wanted to find out, do you take into account the 80 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 types of jobs that are involved in the growth industry versus the types of jobs that potentially may not be around in a few years? And I ask that question because particularly about the hotels, there's this real concern right now that in the event that there's a downturn in the economy or something else may happen as it relates to our ability to continue to attract tourists, that somewhere down the line a lot of these jobs that may be created as a result of TIFs are no longer available versus -- and I guess I can highlight the Networks and my discussions what is pretty much viewed across the board as being the growth industry. Do you take that into account when you make your decisions? And also, not only the amount of jobs, but the salaries associated with those jobs. Is that a part of your analysis?
Again, I think it's partially to follow up sort of on the discussion with Councilman Nutter. These projects are various different kinds. So you have situations where the party -- I'll take one, Loews. They're the developer but they're also going to run the 81 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 hotel and they're actually hiring the people, so they're very much involved in sort of every aspect of that transaction. The hotels that we have done, and I think we've done three hotel TIFs. The three that are done are situations where the -- you know, Loews owns that hotel, Marriott owns City Hall Annex, Marriott owns the headhouse. So when you think about a downturn in the hotel industry, it's one thing for, oh, Double Tree on South Broad, who don't own that building to say, Geez, we're going to cut back. It's another thing for somebody who's invested their money, so they're going to be more aggressive about putting people in that hotel and keeping that hotel operating. They have real exposure. So we are concerned about the investment -- I don't mean that in a financial sense but in kind of a commitment sense, the investment of the parties to be committed to get the transaction done.
No, I'm talking about 82 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 it just in an evaluation sense. The kind of jobs -- and we have office jobs, you know, we have manufacturing jobs, you've got retail jobs, we've got hotel jobs, we have all kinds of jobs in these. And we are looking at that from the standpoint of the benefit that it brings to us, but we are not trying to -- you know, if hotel wages are at a certain level and manufacturing wages are somewhere else, I mean, it kind of is what it is by the nature of the businesses that are involved in the TIFs. We are not making a critique of it.
Well, we look at the wages 'cause we calculate the wage taxes.
You don't really get into whether or not this is a growth industry versus --
Oh, I'm sorry. Well, from the standpoint of -- we want to invest in 83 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 projects that we believe are projects that have long sound, long-term prospects.
And I think every one that we have done is a sound, long-term prospect. I mean, there could be a downturn in the economy that affects any industry or any segment of this. But I think everyone -- you know, it hasn't happened, but we've approved one manufacturing TIF, but it's a company that's grown from 700 jobs in the'70s to over 3,000 jobs today. So even though it's called "manufacturing," it's an industry in Philadelphia that's growing in that industry, and I surely wouldn't want to tell them that because they're a manufacturer, we shouldn't consider them.
All right. I ask that question because I saw a document three or four months ago and it was an analysis on the level of City investment in the hospitality industry, and had we done that for the creation of office jobs, what we would have gotten out of that, and it was much higher-paying jobs. I think maybe it was a 15, $20,000 difference in salaries 84 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 associated per job created, and that's why I want to get a sense of if we're looking at that --
-- specifically as it relates to our decision on funding the TIFs.
Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)
Do we have anyone else to testify? (Shelly Yanoff raises hand.)
Please approach the witness table. (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning. Kindly identify yourself for the record.
Good morning, Council 85 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 President Verna and Councilwoman Blackwell and all the other Councilpeople. I'm Shelly Yanoff, and I'm the Executive Director of Philadelphia Citizens for Children and Youth. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. Before I start, I'd like to share three anecdotes, if I could, that happened yesterday. First was, the Greater Philadelphia Association of Realtors passed a resolution urging more investment in public schools and schools generally, because it's critical to their ability to sell houses in Philadelphia. And I mention that because when I walked in today, I was asked, What are you doing here today? this is about business. As if business and children and families are separate. And if we don't make economic development and children and youth development come together, we're destined to not have a viable city. The third thing was that I went to a briefing on the situation with the School District. It's hard to believe that the School District is willingly saying, Let's lend $12 million at a point today when they're also 86 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 announcing that they may be close to bankruptcy. So this is not about the School District, but it is about bridging the chasm that exists between our thinking about economic development and kids' development. For more than years, as you know, 8 we've been urging at PCCY that the City and State 9 governments do more for the future by doing more 10 for children. Through much of that time, the City 11 grew poorer and, children, the nation's poorest 12 population, grew poorer still. 13 Although we don't have the exact data 14 because the census is now being conducted, we do 15 know many things. About 80 percent of the 212,000 16 public school children are sufficiently and 17 qualify for free or reduced lunch. And we do know 18 that our youngest children, those who have not 19 started school yet, are our poorest. We do know 20 that even the difficulties of application and confusion about the rules, more than 212,000 Philadelphia children today are enrolled in publicly funded health insurance programs. And we know that poverty shapes the lives of too many families. We know that about 87 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 100,000 children are on welfare today and that about 60,000 children life in families that have left welfare for work in the last several years. In Philadelphia and nationally, we understand that many of the families that have left welfare have not left poverty; they simply don't receive cash assistance anymore. So many of Philadelphia's families rely on publicly supported programs to improve the quality of their lives. At the other end of the income scale, we know that Philadelphia has families who look for a good quality of life in their communities before deciding where to settle. These families choose to move in or out of neighborhoods based on the quality of schools, the quality of neighborhood life, the kind of programs that exist that strengthen their children and families. They look for after-school programs, for good child- care programs, for schools that not only have good academic programs that are good, with small class size and well-trained teachers, but also communities that have music and art and sports opportunities for their children. In short, these families look for programs in their communities 88 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 and schools that Philadelphia generally isn't able to provide. We know this from research, we know it from experience, we know it from the region's Realtors, and all of you know it as well. And we know that for both of these kinds of families and the many in between, good programs makes a different to them -- in the quality of life today and in the outcome of their kids' lives in the future.
But also know that the families who have choices are choosing not to stay here because we, unlike other cities, have not been able to invest in the kinds of programs that families and kids need. So how are we in Philadelphia to provide an environment that values, supports, and attracts families? We need to do this not just because it makes sense, but because our future is at stake. Other cities like New York and San Francisco and Portland and Seattle set aside a guaranteed increase every year in preventive programs for youth. Other states like Maine have in their TIFs legislation the opportunity to have child care built in as a project cost when new economic development comes to town. In New York, 89 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 before they begin before they began to provide pre-kindergarten for all 4-year-olds, they were already providing about $25 million in after- school and summer programs. In Philadelphia, we had the ideas but we lose out on the action because we can't seem to find the money. In fact, in too many instances, some of the packages that Philadelphia undertakes to attract economic development inadvertently end up discouraging the very family life that we know we need. Almost all of the TIFs passed thus far sacrificed future school taxes at least for 14 years as part of the package. This only 15 exacerbates the decrease in local funds 16 contribution to schools that we've seen in the 17 '90s, and does nothing to improve neighborhood 18 life for children and families. To begin to solve 19 of how to provide funds to do what we know and 20 research tells us would make a difference, we must look back and forward. We should look back to the art set- aside passed by Council in the '50s that required that when the City substantially assisted in securing the land for development, a small 90 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 percentage had to be provided for public art. As Councilwoman Tasco mentioned, that set-aside has made a major difference in the quality of life in Philadelphia, strengthens, the arts community, improved Philadelphia's appearance and habitability. Now we must look forward to adopting and broadening that concept to improve the lives of children and families, attracting new families, and strengthen those who've always lived here. Yesterday's concept needs to be adopted and broadened for today's needs. We urge that whenever Philadelphia incentivizes any investment through TIFs or through a bonding or through a special decrease in future taxes, a small percentage of the investment is set aside to make the City a better, stronger, more attractive place for families to raise children. It's relatively simple. City action for economic development must include a specific direct benefit for children and families. Thus, if percent has been set aside or were set aside from this TIF for children and families, hundreds and hundreds would directly benefit and so would 91 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 the City. Indeed, if 1 percent had been set aside for the Kvaerner settlement, if 1 percent had been set aside for Disney, for Penn's Landing, for other projects, the current and future state of our children and families would be much improved. The funding provided through these investments should be separate from the operating budgets of the City or the School District. In other cities, these funds often are administered by a board appointed by the mayor And Council, with standards for use that provide if the funds are used to supplement and not supplant the City's regular investment in programs that support children and families. Here, too, the precedent and the mechanism exist in the City; what we need is the will. In conclusion, we urge the Council to begin to bridge the artificial chasm between programs and projects that support economic development and programs and projects that support children and families.
We urge that any TIFs approved require a direct percent set aside for families and children. You are creating opportunity; here make sure that it will work for, 92 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 that it benefits, that it builds on all our future. If Philadelphia is to begin to improve its fiscal future, it must be creative enough and wise enough to improve the future for children and families, for they are the same. Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
We know the success that Philadelphia has enjoyed with regards to the 1 percent art program. Can you elaborate, if you could, on the Maine initiative and how that community successfully showed their concern and sensitivity towards honoring wishes of the business community as well as the children and youth of that community?
Well, Maine has created in the state legislation an ability to include child- care projects as a project cost in their TIFs. And that if the municipality wants to do it, therefore, that is an automatic that goes in. 93 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 And I think Santa Cruz has required that any economic development include a loan program for child-care facilities so that there are projects and examples around the country where people are recognizing that we've got to come together on our economic and children and families development.
Now, is it your view that an opportunity might exist for Council to register its interest in that area? Or is that something that can only happen given a State statute?
I think obviously it needs to be worked through as a requirement, but since Council approves a negotiation between developers and government, then I would -- I believe the Council can suggest that this be a part of the negotiations.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Are there any other questions from 94 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 members of the committee? (No further questions.)
Have all members received copies of the amendments that look like this?
Mr. McPherson, have all Members received copies of the amendments?
I'm being told they have not. Councilman Nutter, do you wish to be recognized?
Just as we get to these amendments, Madam Chair, if there could be some explanation about them. They seem to materially change the normal operation of these TIFs and they also seem to provide a new or expanded, possibly decreased review of documents 95 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 or approvals. And I'd just like to understand what they're about and why.
Okay. Mr. Hankowsky, do you want to explain the amendments, please.
I'll try. Let me particular, Councilman Nutter, sort of -- if I could do this somewhat chronologically, 'cause it might be helpful. This section that you now are seeing amendments to, there has been a provision that has been in all prior TIFs. There was a -- there 14 was a request that that be changed to be -- I'm 15 going to talk sort of conceptually here -- to be 16 somewhat tighter. 17 So there was an amended or a revised 18 version that was in the project plans as 19 distributed to Council.
What page is that on? Or what section generally is that in? I mean, I have seen this language.
Eligible Project 96 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 Costs?
Initial project costs. So the statement is usually in Part 3, Project Costs?
Upon reflection of that language, which we were asked to include in these as submitted, there was a concern that it was not going to work in a practical sense in certain instances, and what you have been provided, I think, is probably fair to call "a middle ground." So it's trying to somewhat tighten it up and yet let it function correctly.
Well, why don't you tell us where we were, where it went, and how you got to where you are now.
Okay. Where it was -- there was a -- as I said, in the kind of previous TIFs, there had been language -- there was a concern that additional public money might come in a transaction, that additional public money might 97 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 come in a transaction. Particularly, there might be additional public assistance, City public assistance. And if there was additional City public assistance, this body should be a part of the deliberations to sign off on that. So what we've attempted to clarify is that the City's participation cannot be modified without coming back here; however, that there could be additional assistance from third-party public sources for certainly discrete elements of the transaction that the parties could pursue. And also, that after you settle the financing, you don't have to do further amendments. The simplest way to describe this is the cost overrun problem. A project starts and they start doing change orders, and can't be bringing every change order back. So the idea was that once the deal's settled -- "settlement" meaning that all the parties -- that the equity, the TIF has all settled, that then the project can proceed. But, basically, this is an attempt to address the fact that we don't want to be providing additional City public assistance 98 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 without consultation with this body. And that's what is being tightened up here.
Well, then that leaves me with the impression that that was allowed before?
I'm left with the impression that maybe you had a recent experience with this and you're now trying to recover from that experience?
It looks like now that it has a high probability that it will never occur.
If it had proceeded, we might -- I think it is probably clear that we would have been back here. Maybe because of this issue, maybe for other reasons.
We would have cleaned 99 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 it all up at the time anyhow.
But to make sure that that doesn't inadvertently happen again, we want to do these amendments.
So let's say in the -- I'm looking at the West Chestnut Retail. I'm assuming that the crossed-out version, which was the 5/17/00 is now no longer valid and we're going back to the initial version of 4/13/00?
Right. So tell me what happened before the change, tell me what happens after the change. Before the change, it says, "After settlement of the financing, no further amendments shall be allowed without City Council approval." So you're saying that with that language, if they wanted to make an amendment, are we talking about on the financing side, are we talking about the size of the project, are we talking about the debt equity issues -- or it's a three-story, no, now we want a 5-story building, it was a 7-story building, now want a 5-story building -- all of 100 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 those changes would have had to come back here under that language; is that correct?
No. There's always been -- 'cause you've delineated a series of different kinds of changes. There was always provision that certain changes could happen on cost, size, etc. Sometimes we've even got it as specific as number of hotel rooms that we would be required to bring back to you. But once it settle and now it's going to go to construction, so we now have settled and it's going to be a 500-room hotel that at least costs $100 million and our TIF note is $10 million, that to the degree something happens after that, they can proceed to do that, they know they have the right to do change orders and modify and get their project executed. The TIF note never changes 'cause we have no authorize to change it, 'cause we have no 21 authorization from you to change it. Prior to that -- and we've done a variety of things, Councilman. There have even been instances where we put caps on the number of hotel rooms. You know, like if you change the 101 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 number of rooms, we had to come back. So we've had different standards and different situations. But if those standards -- if we went through those ceilings or floors, we would come back here. So this change -- let's take West Chestnut -- is actually tighter than what you've had in the past. And that last sentence, we're amending it back to the way it had read in the past. In the past, it always read this way. So we're not doing something we didn't do historically.
Well, I mean, maybe I just don't have the right document. Are you saying it's going back to "no further amendments shall be allowed without City Council approval"?
No. What I'm saying is that in all the previous TIFs, it said that after settlement of the financing, no further amendment shall be required. We were asked in these project plans, the ones before you today, to insert different words; hence, the initial version. I think there has been -- obviously without Councilmember -- but an agreement among the staff that on that sentence, we should go back to the 102 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 way that it has happened originally.
After a settlement of the financing, no further amendment shall be required.
So what does that mean? You've lost me. "No further amendment shall be allowed without City Council approval" I read that you have a change, you have to bring it back. The language you're saying that you want to go either back to or forward to or whatever direction you're going, "no further amendment shall be required," I assume that means you can make changes and you don't have to come back.
After the project has settled, not before, not -- if they change their plan of financing, if they're going to change the project, before they can start, we would have to come back here. But once they've started it, once we've closed, then it's not required that every change come back here.
Councilman -- 103 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223
And you're saying that that would hopefully prevent us from being in a situation that we saw not too long ago in a particular project that may not go anywhere?
No, that's -- that's -- that project is a different issue.
All we're asking, Councilman, to do today is amend the project plans. This will be consistent with what we've always done. When I say "settlement" for those of -- you know, that's the situation where the lender, the construction lender, the TIF note, all the money -- and generally it goes to -- it may go to a trustee who's handling the construction lending. Nobody will close a deal if they believe that, okay, now we start and we start digging the site and we find a boulder, and we've got to spend money to do that and it's going to change the math of the deal, and that somehow they have to stop and wait to come back here, they're not going to do that.
Okay. 104 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223
So it's a practical correction to back what we used to do.
Suppose the boulder situation happens and they decide they need to change ratio on U and O or the real estate tax or something like that.
The TIF note has settled and we can only settle it pursuant to this project plan and what we agreed to.
If they wanted 75 percent of the U and O and we were at 50, we can't touch any of that stuff. We can't change the ordinance or the project plan. For that, we would have to come back here. 105 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223
All this deals with is, did we change the construction costs, or they show more equity or --
All right. So the three-page document that we have, which apparently is now going back to the initial version of 4/13/00 but striking the "allowed without City Council approval" and substituting the word "required" in that particular one, that's what you want for that one?
Okay. And then you've got a whole different thing going on with the Schmidts Plaza, and the Ninth Street seems to be the same as the --
All right. And for this one, you have double-underlined language, 106 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 which is always a flag that there's something special going on here.
On Schmidts, the developer is pursuing at least two sources in addition to the TIF. In one instance, there are environmental issues with this property -- I'm not sure I would call it a brownfield site, but it's pretty close -- and are interested in pursuing the possibility of accessing -- the State has programs that address that, and using that to deal with the costs related to that. In addition, they have a dialogue underway with the Empowerment Zone Lending Institution about the possibilities of them being a lender in the transaction. This would permit those to happen should the developer be able to make them happen. If they don't happen and he can't proceed with the project, obviously we don't proceed either.
I thought I was done. 107 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223
The last sentence I said is, if the developer is unable to access these sources and does not fund them with his own private money --
Access these sources, meaning government sources but outside of us?
Then he has two options: he can either figure a way to fund that private capital -- you know, his, or borrowing; or not proceed. But we would not fill that gap either with TIF proceeds or City dollars.
He's looking at potentially the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, the 108 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 Empowerment Zone Lending Institution, which is, in this case, would be the American street Financial Institution.
How much money are we talking about? (Mr. Hankowsky confers off record with colleagues.)
I think it might be on the order of the magnitude of $5 million.
All right. Now, the one thing that did pop out at me on these TIFs, and we've had discussion before and the opinion is all over the place about the priority of this, but it's a fact of life, unlike a number of other TIFs, these don't seem to have any HUD 108 loan component to them.
And I know in the preliminary CDBG plan for the Year 26, it appears that PIDC is not accessing any of the remaining $10.5 million in HUD 108 loans because it's all 109 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 going into housing, from which there will never be any payback, but that's an argument for the housing people. Why don't you access the HUD 108 loan money for this?
Was that a potential funding source for this remediation issue?
I think you sort of -- one is, you're right, there is still some available 108 capacity on the economic development side of the ledger. You're correct, though, that the uncommitted, or unapplied for, dollars in the Year 26?
Basically in part -- and, again, we think that us providing the TIF assistance is the level of support that the City 110 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 of Philadelphia should provide and they should tine other ways to solve this problem and not use those dollars, and we could use those dollars in other places.
Okay, all right. So play this out for me again. They have to go find other governmental sources, but not the City of Philadelphia, to try to deal with the environmental remediation issues. It's the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and who else?
The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is a possibility. They've been also speaking to the American Street Empowerment Zone Financial Institution.
And there may be other -- I mean, maybe there's an EPA environmental program or something like that.
Right. The Commonwealth, I'm assuming, is like the brownfields people. 111 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223
Okay. So if in the unfortunate circumstance, that don't work out, then they --
They don't proceed. We make some judgment that we should 108 or something and we come back here. We'd have to come back here if we were ever going to contemplate additional City dollars.
Well, what does that do to the timetable of the project as we try to figure out what American Street FSI is doing or the Commonwealth with regard to proceeding on this project?
Well, I think this project in particular is a -- I will use the term -- "a tough project." So what the developer is trying to do here is, he's bought this property at 112 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 sheriff's sale, we all know that, and to some extent has dived off diving board and doesn't know if there's water in the pool. But did that.
So we give him credit for that. And he's looking to understand whether --
Well, I didn't get the impression that a whole lot of other people were trying to dive in this pool.
I didn't get the impression that a whole lot of other people were trying to dive in this pool.
So it would have just sat around as a part of a larger inventory of properties.
So -- and the developer is looking -- to be candid, I think -- as to 113 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 whether we as a governmental body, you know, collectively, the City and the School District, are prepared to provide a level of assistance through the TIF mechanism. And with that, he at least knows he's got that. He also has a sense of what we can borrow privately. He has ideas about how to fill the remaining financial needs. As I mentioned in my testimony at the very beginning of this morning, there will be a need for this body to deliberate on a condemnation by the Redevelopment Authority street closings. So this does sort of massively impact the scheduling 'cause you're going to have to act on a few other issues too on this project, but it does enable the developer to begin to put some of pieces together to get this finalized such that they really could start construction, because it's the fall by the time all the pieces come together, is my best recollection of the schedule.
Well, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I just kind of get the impression that we're leaving potentially a major component of this thing somewhat unresolved. And I mean, I assume we want this to happen, right? 114 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223
Do any of the other projects have pieces that are missing or we're saying, Go out into the hinterlands and find some money from somebody else and come back to us when you have the red slippers? I mean, what are we -- why are we doing this?
I think this one is sort of different. It's got -- it's a complicated project, this one. You know, it's blighted and --
Every project that comes in here is complicated. So what?
Yeah, that's true. But you need to basically assemble this site because there's some missing teeth, pieces that weren't a part of the original Schmidts sheriff's sale piece. Strike streets, address certain utility relocation issues that result from those streets. I think everyone really does believe this a good project from the perspective of, this it a piece of blight on this neighborhood for sure. Getting it out of there would be an asset.
Right. 115 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223
It would even be a further asset if we could get it out of there and put active reuse on the property. We want to try to help get that going. There's a lot of pieces have to come together, but I don't think we're, quote/unquote holding it up in any way. I mean, I think we're actually --
Well, I don't think I made the accusation that we're holding up, but I'll just conclude with, I guess I have a slight discomfort level knowing that there is a piece that still needs to get done. It appears for the moment that we're just kind of leaving it hanging when we know that there might be potential sources even here.
If there's a philosophy about how to deal with these kinds of things and who should deal with them and whose money and all of that, you know, maybe it's valid, maybe it's not. But there just doesn't seem to be any dispute that we want to support the project, we've already got an $8 million TIF note here potentially and in Phase II/Phase II. We want the 116 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 project to happen, we'd like it to happen as soon as possible. There's no doubt about the current condition of the place. It's not like folks are jumping through hoops to try to get this thing in the first place. And I guess I just don't necessarily want to leave here with the impression that it's, you know, kind of being given significant encouragement but has a missing piece, and we'll just kind of wait and see what happens. You get back to us and let us know what happened on your exploration out there.
As opposed to just, Here's the project, here are the costs, we worked it all out, we identified the funding sources, go build something. And, you know, we'll see you at either ground-breaking or ribbon-cutting time and just basically like get it over.
Well, let me comment in two ways. One is -- and perhaps I just have -- the City is not sort of saying to the development, Okay, good luck. We're not doing that. The Commerce Department has been helping explore the 117 05/17/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000212, 221, 222, 223 possibilities of the State environmental money being available, the staff of the Empowerment Zone has been working with this developer to look at the potential of using Empowerment Zone -- so there's been a multi-agency effort to try to figure out how to make this happen. As you know, the TIF process has this peculiar timing envelope, so I think we all have made a judgment that it would be helpful to have this in place because let's just say at the time of your first reading of this bill, three weeks hence, the Empowerment Zone says, Yeah, let's go. If we had to start the process then of the TIF process, you know, we'd be eight weeks out, and given Council's summer recess, we would really be waiting for the fall. This allows this project to happen and be at the ground-breaking stage --
Well, at the risk of insulting any of my friends, you know, there might only be one quasi-governmental entity that moves any slower than us, and it's probably the folks over at the Empowerment Zone. So I mean, I'm just concerned. I mean, 118 5/17/00 - WHOLE COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING we can end. You know what my concern is.
I'd like to see things, you know, kind of wrapped up, put a bow around it.
Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)
Hearing none, we will conclude the public hearing of the Committee of the Whole and we will now go into our public meeting. - - -
We are now in our public meeting, and the Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell regarding Bill No. 212.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that Bill No. 212 be -- I move the adoption of the amendments. (Duly seconded.) 119 5/17/00 - WHOLE COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING
It has been moved and properly seconded that the amendment be adopted on Bill No. 000212, as read by Mr. Hankowsky. All in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the amendment has been adopted. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that Bill 212, as amended, be reported out with a favorable recommendation. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 000212 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, as amended. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the motion has. 120 5/17/00 - WHOLE COMMITTEE - PUBLIC MEETING
The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco regarding Bill No. 4 222.