if the board has any questions or requires any refreshing of your memory about the details of
this application. I would also have my client readopt my testimony this morning. So if the
Administrator could look for Nadine Vaz.
Do we see?
Nadine Vaz, can you please raise your hand?
Good morning.
Good morning.
Could you please state your name and spell for the sonographer?
Nathan Vaz, N-E-I-D-V-A-N, last name Vaz, V-A-Z.
Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Thank you.
Nay, you are an authorized member of the owner of this property, correct?
Yes, I am the vice president and also one of the co-founder of the church.
thank you and you were present during the september hearing correct yes i was and and you've
heard all of the additional evidence that was offered in front of the board this morning
yes would you agree that testimony was true and accurate and would you adopt it as if you
would you agree that testimony was true and accurate and would you adopt it as if you had
had given it yourself
given it yourself yes i do thank you questions from the board yeah i've got a couple questions
um looking at this plan that the red line is the um the required buffer that is that's correct
mr johns that was to be very clear this line is my estimated line that was for visual purposes
to show exactly where that required eight-foot setback would be, that is also the same eight-foot
setback area that the buffer would be required, and it's one and the same.
Okay. And the seven-foot, 11 and three-quarters inch, is that a grass space between, but that's
all public, that's all part of the public way, right? Correct. That's part of the public way.
And that's correct. And how many trees were you required to plant? Seven.
It's a lot of trees for this. It is. It is. It's a lot of trees.
Only only because there's the building is so large, you know what I mean?
On the side and then to the to the left of the building. Is that grass area? Is that paved area?
Um, so if you're looking at it from Hofnagel Street, I believe that you're referring to this
area over here. So that's all paved already. That is correct. That was the parking area that
existed when this was a synagogue. But as you can see, it's really a very difficult area to park in
because there is this one story detached building. So it's, it's really not a terribly efficient
area to park in. And so what are they proposing to use that space as?
Really, I mean, there's a couple of possible spaces that can be used for parking. It's
ultimately not proposed to change in any way. Okay. And can you go back to that site plan again?
Yeah, sure.
So, is your client opposed to planting trees along the frontage on Hofnagel Street?
Nay, if you're listening, would you have any objection to planting some trees along the Hofnagel Street frontage?
I would not have any subject on that, Mrs. Meredith, Mr. Johnson.
and we would do whatever it takes us to accommodate the parking lot.
Remember, the front at Hafnagel, it's not a big space,
but we're willing to do whichever needs to take a place to accommodate this parking lot.
And also, like you said, all the purpose of this parking lot application,
which cost us a lot of money, is just to accommodate the neighborhood as well.
We're here as peaceful as a religion institute and trying to help the community.
That's all we're trying to do right now.
I got you.
So another question.
Have they had any, so the conversation that you had with the streets department, are they
saying they will not allow you to plant any trees within that seven foot, 11 and three
quarter inch space?
No, I mean, candidly, Mr. Johns, that's not that is not something that was raised with the Straits Department.
The Straits Department reviewed the application for the curb cut and then the amended the amended refusal, if you will.
The plans simply went through the planning department.
They didn't go back through the Straits Department for any review.
you all right so i guess what i'm trying to what i'm trying to get to right is that you got this
seven to three quarter inch right 11 and three quarter inch space potential to plant a couple
trees along there potentially right and then you got the front of your building that with even
within the required setback although your parking wouldn't be in the required setback
you could theoretically plant trees within that setback in that area to accommodate a few trees
I know we get to seven, but, you know, you could potentially plant a few trees.
The other issue is the the paving that is currently gravel or is proposed to be gravel.
But what I'm hearing is that your your client does not oppose putting in asphalt or pervious paving.
No, nay, you will correct me if I'm wrong, but they are not opposed to putting in paving. I mean, again, this is a fairly limited budget project, and the gravel was obviously a fairly easy option, but no, I mean, if the board would feel more comfortable with it, I do not believe they have any objection to paving the lot.
No, nay, you will correct me if I'm wrong, but the but they.
Is that correct, Nay?
He's not. He's still muted.
Okay. Mr. Jones, any other further questions?
Okay. Other questions?
Yes. I just wanted to point out a few things.
One, that this is a, this area, this lot has almost 15,000 square feet in an impervious area, right?
The purpose of the code is to create spaces so that we can make sure that we are managing stormwater runoff across the city effectively.
Being an existing property does not exempt us from having to take care of the place that we all live.
Additionally, if you look at the Philly tree plan, this very specific area is a part of the city that has a tree deficit.
right and i think i understand the um difficulties that is being presented but at the same time
in this particular instance there were multiple paths that could have been taken
there have been no attempts to a deal with any stormwater runoff currently on this there's no
green roof there's zero trees like you had seven proposed there were none put back across the
entire frontage of the lot, which would have actually limited the hardship. And so I do feel
like in this particular instance, what we have is like an attempt to try to get all of the provisions
released in an area where this has just been an ongoing concern, frankly, and parking causes one
of the largest runoff concerns when we're dealing with these things. So I do think that
just needed to be stated for the record. Any other questions? Yes. One, I wanted to
know if, as part of this planning for this, such as it was, that you looked into using
pervious pavement at all i'm sorry i'm having trouble art was the question did they look into
pervious pavement yes uh board member gatson i i do not believe that that was something
investigated again this is a very small religious institution um they are are you know again looking
to pull some vehicles off the street. And I believe that in this particular case,
that pervious paving is a less economical option. But again, certainly if the requirement,
if the proviso is imposed that this lot be paved, that certainly I am sure that they can
investigate what the best option would be in terms of the type of paving that they would elect to
use if that type of a proviso were imposed here. You know, again, this is not a refusal issued
for the use of parking itself. This is simply a dimensional refusal that was issued for the
setback. So it is not the use of the parking here that has been refused. It is just a matter of the
sat back i'm talking about the the surface parking lot coverage um which there was a refusal issued
for and i have the same concern as a board member win about the drainage issue and stormwater
management issue on that and then my other question is or my concern on this is that
if you're going to have a gravel as the parking surface I mean what age congregation are we
talking about here I mean that's that's not necessarily an easy kind of surface to manage
for people who are older or disabled
or maybe use canes, walkers, or what have you
to access an area.
And if you're going to park cars in there,
you're going to get ruts and things
where the gravel moves
because it's being displaced by the tires
from the cars and the parking.
And so how is that going to be managed?
And so how is that going to be managed? That makes it even more difficult for people who are trying to walk from their cars to this particular religious assembly area.
That makes it even more difficult for people.
Just just my view of things.
nay i believe that you were muted the last time that i asked this question but do you have any
objection to if the board is inclined to grant this application do you have any objection paving
this lot with a uh a paving that would comply with the city of philadelphia code
we have no objection and we'll do that hideaway as granted
it um questions from our attorney not at this time mr chair i i um council there's at least
two people in their virtual and they in the uh in-person audience for waiting to testify
sir could you please turn your mic one you see it mr chairman uh while he's doing that i i would
like to note an objection that that i i do believe that the public had the opportunity
to speak during the september hearing and that if there are any members of the public that spoke
during the september hearing that their testimony would only be limited to anything covered under
the amended refusal wow i'll i'll we'll take a look at that sir could you please turn your mic
on and sit closer my name is all right state your name and spell it for the stenographer my
name's rich miller right could you spell it r-i-c-h-a-r-d-m-i-l-l-e-r do you swear or firm
to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do have you testified before on this
yes i have all right could you just give us an update of where you stand after hearing okay i
don't agree with this at all okay all right um thank you very much we appreciate you coming
down here uh where's your i own the antique house at 8301 algon avenue opposite corner
right from the synagogue and they have i've told you before we have no parking now
when they're in session they're in session from four o'clock to two o'clock in the morning okay
all right and the people that are trying to walk around the place we cannot listen to me listen to
me you heard what was said today please tell me what your update testimony is relative to what
you heard today? Well, number one, they were supposed to put signs up around here and they
didn't. And they did, but they took them down in front of me. Okay. Okay. Number two, they say
they're going to put six cars here and it will hold roughly 20 cars. They have done it. We have
brought pictures of it. They have a parking lot behind the building, which holds about 15 to 20
cars, and we know that too. Their building is, we're talking about, is supposed to be
Hofnagel, I mean, 8244 Somerdale Avenue. That's 8244 Somerdale Avenue. What you're looking at,
they have now got an address of 1630 Hofnagel that the state, the post office, no one recognizes.
okay okay so now that means that's a fictitious address there is no entrance there it was taken
out it used to be a synagogue i lived across from the place 35 years now my neighbors are a lot of
renters and a few that we do have that live there we have the problem with the kids going up and
down the sidewalks through using the the handicap ramp is a as an entrance in and out they cut the
tree down in order to make it longer for them their property line ends at that orange line
and they're gaining another four or five i'm going to say roughly 12 feet from the curb
in as graveled now they gravel that and these sides have been taken down so i have pictures
of massive this morning and okay they're not not existing right okay so now we have a mictitious
place they want a spot for six cars on the side they're going to take away the city has to give
up four parking spots to give them a spot for six cars which is going to hold 20 now i don't get
that because why would the city give up all this extra ground plus four parking spots so they can
add two spots when they only have enough room to put four cars on their property and then they
graveled all the way over to the sidewalk okay okay we have actual pictures where they say we
only went six well they filled both parking lots and every parking spot on the street okay okay so
we're really not for that and the handicapped people cannot go up and down the sidewalk and
they can't use the handicapped rent because they're using it to drive in and out of the property
and they're leaving their vehicles there they're there from four o'clock in the afternoon to two
and they're leaving their vehicles there they're there from four o'clock
o'clock in the morning okay thank you that's all right hold on council do you have any questions
i just want to confirm that it was a gentleman's testimony that this congregation has uh you know
a significant number of members that park on the street and that it was your testimony
that that has created impact to the community because of the insufficient parking that is
available on site your uh client their tenants are not members of the neighborhood number one
that was not my question wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute and answer the just answer
the yep just answer the question please you heard what she said answer that question i didn't quite
my question was is it your testimony that you have observed that when the congregation is in
session that many members are parking on the street because they don't have anywhere to park
on site is that your observation that's correct and they also have a valet to park somewhere
Thank you. Thank you. That was my question. All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Other testimony from the audience, please.
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for coming down.
Chair, we have an attendee with their hand raised. I have one more here in person.
Houston is standing up in your days.
Okay. Well, we'll get the mic closed.
Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
The name is John J. Klein, K-L-I-N-E.
I reside at 1718 Hufnagel Street.
All right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Mr. Klein, please proceed.
Why don't we start? Are you in favor of this project or against?
I'm against.
Could you tell us why?
If there's something that's different than what you're...
Again, I want to also indicate I'm a member of the Ron Hurst Civic Association.
I'm physically three feet beyond the 250-foot business.
I understand.
Why don't you get close to the mic?
Stay close to the mic, please.
The applicant is proposing six parking spaces, three at Huffnagel Street and three at the property line at Emerson Street.
Why are not the six parking spaces at the end at Huffnagel Street?
Because when I further discuss the photos, I submit it.
So, you know, my indication is that if you allow this, they're going to eventually go back to what you see in the photos of multiple cars parked on the side yard and also in the service driveway in the rear of the building,
which is also when the parking is there
is obstructing the required means of emergency