Mr. White, if a property -- you talk about the annual inspections. If a neighbor believes that there is a discrepancy that's having a negative effect on the community, is there a process for reinspections, even out of cycle?
So what -- again, maybe that's a followup -- if you believe that PHA should be looking at this property six months early, you can call PHA and suggest that, or is that something that they just would dismiss? 509 RESOLUTION 970558
No, it is not dismissed. You can call, you can request it. And, to the best of my knowledge, in most cases, an inspector will be dispatched to take a look at that property. Keep in mind, there are 11,000 Section 8 certificates and vouchers. The inspectors conduct 25,000 inspections on an annual basis. Some of those are -- I'm sorry, 25,000 on an annual basis. Only 11,000 of them are what you would call the mandated annual inspection. Some number of the others are in response to complaints and concerns that are brought to the attention of the Authority. But they will be able to -- they can give you all of that.
And I am sure they will. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Mr. White, let me thank you on behalf of all the members of the committee and on behalf of the Councilmembers who are not present here because they are not members of the committee, but who are in their offices listening, and on behalf of the people of 510 RESOLUTION 970558 Philadelphia. I think today for the first time we were beginning to get some answers from people in an official position to know answers.
In a former official position. CHAIRMAN COHEN: We are greatly appreciative for your coming and devoting this amount of time to this public hearing. It speaks well for you, it speaks well for the agency which you have headed for many years. And we wish you the very best. And may we feel free to be in touch with you from time to time on specific matters of interest? Your contribution today, particularly with respect to continued support of the people as they move from shelters into housing, I think, rates with one of the very important pieces of information that Council has obtained during this whole search. It gives us a very good clue as to how we may bring about some very sensitive changes. Thank you again, Mr. White, very much. 511 RESOLUTION 970558
Thank you again, Mr. Chairman and members of Council. (Applause.) CHAIRMAN COHEN: And you are free, if there is anything you wish to say in general, you are certainly free --
No, I am not going to take any more of the time of the members of this Council and those others who may wish to testify. Thank you very much for the invitation. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Thank you. And we look forward to the opportunity to have you here again. Thank you. Liz Hersh.
I submitted a written letter to the Mayor, which I hope you got a copy of. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Okay.
By the way, for the record, if you have a problem with the TRAC Program, 512 RESOLUTION 970558 you can call me. (Applause.) CHAIRMAN COHEN: Give your name for the record, please.
My name is Liz Hirsch. I am the Executive Director of the Tenants' Action Group. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Very good.
Let me repeat that. If you have a problem with the TRAC program, please feel free to call me. My number is 575-0707. However, I will say that I have not gotten a call from any member of City Council or from any members of communities who have had problems with our program in the four and a half years that I have been there. I would like to share with you a letter that several of us have sent to the Mayor and have shared with members of City Council, and will share with the Philadelphia Housing Authority and others hopefully in a position to make some decisions about Section 8. "Dear Mayor Rendell: We the undersigned are writing to express our support for 513 RESOLUTION 970558 the Section 8 program. "Section 8 is an essential program. It provides housing to more than 11,000 families who would otherwise not be able to afford housing. "It supports the private rental market and prevents further housing abandonment which Philadelphia can ill afford. "Residents of Philadelphia, like every state in the union, are plagued by unaffordable housing costs. "It takes more than twice the minimum wage, or about $12 per hour, to afford a one-bedroom apartment at what HUD calls a fair market rent of $558 a month. In addition, we pay some of the highest utility rates in the country. "A decent place to live is out of reach for many Philadelphians. Section 8 makes housing affordable for them. "Section 8 is not a program which the city could afford to replace. Even if only 25 percent of those currently sheltered housed through Section 8 ended up in the city shelter system, the cost would be a prohibitive $35 million a year to shelter them. This city does not need any more 514 RESOLUTION 970558 homeless people on the streets. "Section 8 makes it affordable for many property owners and managers to invest in rental property in the city. Without Section 8 many would be forced out of business. We must make this program work. " Let me tell you who the signers are. Sister Mary Scullion from Project Home; Gloria Guard from People's Emergency Center; Lee Capkin and Whittier Dow from Housing Consortium for Disabled Individuals; Cindy Ferguson for the Community Women's Education Project; Unavee Bruce from the Francisville NAC; Elaine Fox, Director of Philadelphia Health Care for the Homeless; Giona and Michael Gregin-Modugno, Presidents of Piandalazzo, who are property owners and managers; Ronald Maze, who is also a property owner/manager; the Philadelphia Citizens for Children and Youth; the Fair Housing Council of Suburban Philadelphia; Alicia Christian on behalf of Dignity Housing; Leona Smith for the Employment Project; Jeffrey Best for the Regional Alliance of HUD Tenants; Diane Johnson for the Philadelphia Union of the Homeless; Carol 515 RESOLUTION 970558 Tracy for the Women's Law Project; Barbara and Ralph DiCianno, who are property owners and managers; Marie Holliman, who is a manager of Verona Apartments; Habeebah Alli from Raise of Hope; Wallace Nicholson, property owner and manager; and The Coalition to Save Subsidized Housing. Here are our recommendations: First, we think that there ought to be a hotline established for Section 8 that is open for calls 8:00 to 8:00 every day. It ought to be a toll-free number, and it ought to be staffed with some of the best and most senior employees at Section 8, and give them broad authority to investigate and resolve complaints. I don't know if anybody has tried to call Section 8 recently, but it is an extremely frustrating experience. And that's something that needs to be resolved, and I think is a legitimate complaint about the program. At least it is a complaint and experience we have had, and I think something that could be easily rectified. 516 RESOLUTION 970558 Immediately hire new inspectors. In my opinion, as someone who administers a Rental Assistance Program, which does not have the kind of problems that this one does, the ratio of inspectors to units is unacceptable.
7 There is no reason to have 8 inspector per 1,000 units, especially assuming that 9 it ordinarily takes two to three inspections to get 10 a unit passed and up to the housing quality 11 standards, and that that 11,000 doesn't include 12 complaint-driven inspections during the year. 13 We have a ratio of 1 inspector to 14 about 400 units. We could probably handle more 15 units. 16 But, at any rate, that number is way 17 too low. And I think that's a legitimate concern 18 that should be addressed. 19 A third that's been talked about a 20 lot is to provide social services to tenants who 21 need them, especially as they are leaving the 22 shelter system. 23 Some tenants do need additional 24 support and counseling. I will comment on what 25 Mr. White said about the McKinney money. 517 1 RESOLUTION 970558 Certainly, the McKinney money, there are funds that can be applied for by the city for support services. There is CDBG money. There is city General Fund money. It may be possible to generate additional funds. It may be possible to redeploy existing funds. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Do you have any information about the exact amount of the McKinney funds?
That comes into the city? Last year it was about $16 million. CHAIRMAN COHEN: It is each year?
It is each year. We don't yet have the SuperNote that comes, that HUD generates. The way it is divided up there is that there is some funding that goes directly into housing development; that's the greatest majority of the money. Some money goes into supportive services. Some goes into actual rent subsidies, primarily through what is called the Shelter Plus Care Program. And that's a rent subsidy that also 518 RESOLUTION 970558 has services, which is not part of Section 8. But I think the money that would be available through McKinney is the supportive services money. And the Office of Housing usually generates that proposal through some sort of open competitive process. And it will be possible to generate supportive services dollars through that process to support people in Section 8. Further, there are city General Funds that are already being used for case management, for people in shelter and leaving shelter. I know that PHMC is providing supportive services with those funds already. Those funds, the way they are utilized, certainly could be evaluated, I think. The other source of support is Community Development Block Grant funds. And I think that certainly this whole issue of how people make the transition out of the shelter and into the community is something that really requires a new look. CHAIRMAN COHEN: All right. Thank you. 519 RESOLUTION 970558
We think that there ought to be a screening committee to review applications for Section 8. I understand that the regulations, the HUD regulations, prohibit Section 8 from actually doing this. But there is no reason why it couldn't be done through OESS and OHCD at this time, while regulatory relief is sought through working with HUD. But, at any rate, I think that, contrary to some of what has been said, Section 8 and PHA do not work in coordination with the other housing and homeless services to the extent that they should. It is very, very difficult to get information and to share information with them. And it would be a much more effective use of Section 8 if it were, in fact, part of the continuum of care that currently exists, that functions fairly well. Our next recommendation is that a mediation program be established, such as alternative dispute resolution, to handle conflicts between neighbors, tenants, and landlords. Yes, there is a Hate Crimes Unit of 520 RESOLUTION 970558 the police department. Yes, there is the Human Relations Commission. By and large what they advise is that people move out of the neighborhood. Sometimes they do some good work. But there is no reason why PHA, or PHA in collaboration with other community agencies or with the other housing agencies, couldn't use, for instance, volunteers to do some kind of alternative dispute resolution. I think that for many reasonable people who have problems with Section 8, one of the problems is that it is very, very frustrating to get your problems solved. You can't get an answer to a phone call. Nobody who you talk to seems to have any authority to solve problems. Well, that's inexcusable. There ought to be a way to get through and to get the problems resolved when they exist. And I think we owe that to the tenants who are part of the program. You know, they need to know that they are going to be supported and assisted, as do the neighbors. So I think that -- we think that some 521 RESOLUTION 970558 form of mediation program could be done by volunteers, should be established to help diffuse tension immediately when problems arise. Explore privatization of administration, of the administration of Section 8. There are models of programs for rental assistance and services that don't have the kinds of problems that Section 8 has. Maybe it is too big. Maybe it is unwieldy. Maybe there needs to be some more community control. I don't know if privatization is the answer, but it is something that could and should be explored on a pilot basis. Our next recommendation is that we give up on the clustering idea. I think it is a bad idea. Projects don't work; that's why we are tearing projects down. And I think to implement this idea would be to repeat mistakes of the past. And, finally, I agree that the homeless priority should not be changed right now. The city simply cannot afford to change it. There are some things that could be changed. For instance, most residents of shelters do not meet with a case manager and have an 522 RESOLUTION 970558 assessment done during their first 30 days of their shelter stay. Usually that doesn't happen until after 30 days. Maybe the Section 8 application should wait until after the 30 days. Maybe it should wait until people are in recovery programs or in transitional housing. Some of us feel that maybe Section 8 ought to come as a reward for making progress, that it shouldn't just be granted to everybody, especially given some of the problems. That people really need to be ready to take advantage of the program so that they don't fail and go back into the system. But, at any rate, before a decision is made about the homeless priority, it should not be done in a politically charged, racially charged situation. It should be done by looking at all of the implications, all of the alternatives, and then take a reasoned approach to it. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COHEN: In discussing the latter part, the suggestions you have, are you referring to the city's role and local regulations, 523 RESOLUTION 970558 or are you referring to the entire Section 8 program?
In which? CHAIRMAN COHEN: In your recommendations with respect to --
Well, some are federal regulations and some are local. The homeless priority is locally established. But the regulations that prohibit screening, which I think Councilman Nutter read earlier, is a federal regulation. But there is no reason why the city can't create some kind of screening process prior to the applications going to Section 8, or at least explore that, and also to talk with HUD. We have a very good relationship, the city has a good relationship, with the national HUD. If there is a series of recommendations for regulatory relief -- CHAIRMAN COHEN: Apparently so good that the Mayor is able to call them and get their offices not to cooperate with City Council. So we are not sure that that cozy relationship that allegedly exists between the 524 RESOLUTION 970558 national Administration and the Mayor, we're not so sure that it is always a good thing, in this case.
It is certainly something I think that could be taken advantage of, at least to try on a pilot basis. Anything you are afraid to try on a big scale -- and I think that is reasonable -- you can try on a pilot basis and get some relief. HUD is trying to innovate. HUD has reformed itself and reshaped itself over the last several years. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Well, the problem with that is that HUD apparently will only listen to the Mayor. And the Mayor doesn't discuss anything with anybody else, and makes his own recommendation, sends them on for HUD to act on, so we don't even know what proposals he has. So I am just indicating there are problems with that.
Knowing you, Councilman Cohen, you will hold him accountable. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Well, you are going to have to help us find a way to hold him 525 RESOLUTION 970558 accountable.
Well, I think it is unfortunate that the Mayor and the city Administration isn't here to hear all of what has been said both in the last hearing and today. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Oh, I am sure they are hearing it. You can be sure that they are tuned in to every word that's being said here.
But they are not sharing what they are thinking with the people of this Council and the people of Philadelphia.
Well, that's a disappointment. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Councilman Kenney. CHAIRMAN KENNEY: Just one point of information for you. In May of 1997, I went to Washington to meet with the Chairman on the Subcommittee on Housing, Congressman Lazzio from Atlanta, along with a number of congressional people of both parties. They are open to our recommendations for any type of pilot or new innovative program to help the Administration of Section 8 and other federal housing programs. 526 RESOLUTION 970558 They basically said that if we came to them with a reasonable approach, through the Mayor's Office, they would be very happy to allow us to proceed, because they are looking for some solutions themselves.
Yes, that's good. I mean, I hope that one of the things that comes out of this is that there may be a task force or something created to look at all the different policies and regulations and how they might be modified. Because I think this program is worth fighting for. I think we need it. I also think it needs to be reformed. And how we reform it is going to have major implications. I am a homeowner in the city, as well as an advocate for people who need housing. And I think we have to balance out all of those needs and interests. The only thing is that every one of the people who has signed this letter is willing to sit down and discuss in more detail how these recommendations might be implemented, what the impact of them would be. 527 RESOLUTION 970558 CHAIRMAN COHEN: Have you submitted a copy of the letter to the City Council?
Yes, I did. I can give you another copy. And many of us are people who work with this program every day. We can bring in landlords, we can bring in participants. There are a lot of people who have a working daily expertise. And why not have people who know the program sit down with some of the neighbors, the civic associations, as well as participants and landlords. I think there are a lot of areas where we would all agree and can come up with some reforms that would save the program, make it work better, and make sure that we have this resource for people. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Thank you very much. The next is going to be a panel. And we appreciate everybody's patience. The next will be a panel of four people, Sabrina Carson, Arthur Green, Habeebah Alli, Esther Bates. Please excuse the pronunciation, if 528 RESOLUTION 970558 it was off key.
Mr. Chairman, while they are coming, let me state that I understand and agree with my colleague that there is some flexibility within this program. I understand, for example, that right now, even some of the funds that we have depended on in this area, for example, the McKinney funds, we are not sure what we will get from them or how we are going to be able to use them this year. So it seems to me that we are going to have to, as a city, reevaluate how we use all funds that deal with homeless and housing, and what we get and how we want to use them for our city. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Yes. And I think we are going to want to know what was done with the funds that were applied for specifically for continuation of support services to the people that went from the shelter to more permanent form of housing, the Section 8 housing. We thank you. Are all four names -- three are here?
Mr. Arthur Green is going to speak in Miss Esther Bates' stead. 529 RESOLUTION 970558 CHAIRMAN COHEN: Okay.
Good morning, Councilmembers who are still here in Council chambers. My name is Sabrina Casin. I am formerly homeless, and I am the Chair of the Dignity Housing Board. I am a member of the Delaware Valley Union of the Homeless and the Pennsylvania Coalition to Save Subsidized Housing. I wish other Councilmembers were here, just to take a look at the faces of homelessness. When I moved into my subsidized unit, in a working-class neighborhood, the first week that I was there I did not put my trash out. I wanted to address that issue. Not one of my neighbors knocked on my door, but they did call up to Dignity to let them know that I did not put my trash out. I found out that there was a block club. And I went to the President's door, and I asked them when was trash day, when was recycling day, and everything else. But no one came to me. 530 RESOLUTION 970558 They were waiting for me to fail. And I think that one of the things that, if we are talking about communities and community involvement, that the community has to be held accountable, also. And when I say being held accountable, I mean reach out to that person, because it could be you. I came from a working-class environment. I became homeless due to no fault of my own, through domestic violence. I did not want to enter into the shelter system. But because I was an abused woman, my abuser knew my family, my friends, and everywhere that I could possibly hide out. So it was either saving my life or humbling myself and entering into a facility that I did not want to go. And I stayed in the shelter systems for seven months. Seven months. My oldest daughter disassociated herself with me because she was a student at Central High. I was an embarrassment to her. But I held my head up high every step of the way because I never lost my dignity. 531 RESOLUTION 970558 And when I got housing through Dignity, my family and I reunited. My daughters are college graduates. I am gainfully employed. I worked my way through Dignity Housing as a tenant, as an employee, and now as the Chair of the Board. But the one thing that I did not forget is where I came from. And I think that that's something that we all need to look at. I am quite sure that some of us have come from humble beginnings, humble, where you were eating beans, hot dogs, or going to your neighbors so you would have a meal. What happened to reaching out and helping a fellow brother? No wonder this City of Brotherly Love wanted to change its slogan. (Applause.)
I guarantee you that there are residents in Section 8 that are undesirable. But there are homeowners that are just as undesirable as people who live in subsidized housing. I had neighbors on my block who were much more trashier, but they owned their homes, and 532 RESOLUTION 970558 no one was complaining. Subsidized housing works. And there are several components that will make it even better. One, to me, is to listen to the people who have survived subsidized housing. I am offering my services to the restructuring of the Section 8 process because I think that the piece that is missing the most is the people who have been affected by, who have lived in, these programs. You have not listened to them in redoing this program. And I am hoping that when these committees are set up with our Mayor, our future Mayor, our City Council, our housing person John Kromer, or anyone else, that they will consider people who have lived in subsidized housing as a part of the committees to help to shape the new Section 8 program. And, finally, I am truly hoping that this Council can relay to our current Mayor that the people are somewhat disappointed that he could not make this meeting. Because it is clearly needed that our 533 RESOLUTION 970558 leader of this city should have taken time out of his busy schedule to hear the pros, the cons, and everything else that is being said. We have to listen to him; he should listen to us. (Applause.) CHAIRMAN COHEN: Okay.
Good afternoon, honorable Councilmembers. I am so glad that you again kept the appointment for this hearing. I am equally disappointed that the city officials -- CHAIRMAN COHEN: Would you bring the microphone much closer to you and identify yourself, your name first.
Okay. My name is Habeebah Alli. I am representing Raise of Hope Transitional Housing, the Union of the Homeless Delaware Valley Chapter, and the Pennsylvania Coalition to Save Subsidized Housing. As I was stating, I am truly disappointed that our Mayor and our other city officials that are involved with housing could not make it important enough for them to be here today. 534 RESOLUTION 970558 But I am so grateful that the City Council members who did show up today came out, along with the citizens that represent the various coalitions and subsidized housing units throughout the City of Philadelphia. I am also a formerly homeless mother of four. I am currently living in Dignity Housing. And as I stated a few weeks ago here, though I have been able to enhance my life, it has not been to the degree that I can live in fair market rental situations, nor have I enhanced my life to the degree that I can purchase a property at this point in time. I would like to know, one of the Councilpersons had raised, I believe it was Councilwoman Happy Fernandez, in terms of people going into the shelter system to receive a Section 8 certificate. I think a better question would be, why is it that anyone has to go into a shelter to get housing? Why can't City Council institute something that a family is saved before they totally bottom out? No one wants to be humiliated and 535 RESOLUTION 970558 denigrated to go into the shelter system. If any City Council persons feel as though it is some kind of happy ride or a lovely experience, then perhaps they should have come down with City Councilperson Jannie Blackwell a few years ago. That we had hundreds of people sleeping at 12th and Market in the subway systems because the shelters were full. Now, here our city government is in the black. I understand that we are not in the red. But we have closed the shelter in the summer, like people can live in 100 plus, with humidity. People who have all kinds of fiscal ailments, asthma, can't even breathe indoors, more or less outdoors. And we are downsizing the beds in the shelter systems in the winter, but yet this is the place they go to receive subsidized housing. Well, it was a place I went because I had lived four places in one year with four children who had to go to four different schools, and two of them failed, while I worked in the Municipal Services Building in Revenue, handling hundreds of thousands of dollars by day. I slept in the city shelter on the floor by night with my children. 536 RESOLUTION 970558 Where is the pride in that? There was no pride in that. And though your friends and families will tell you leave that situation, get out of that situation, I was being battered in my home. I had to flee. And I thank God for Women Against Abuse, but that was only 30 days. So then I had to look at the city shelters, which I am telling you is a half a degree better than a dog kennel. It is nowhere to be. And when we are instituting these new policies and procedures, call on us, because we have walked in these shoes. And I realize that I have not arrived to the point that I cannot return to the city shelter systems. And the way the jobs are downsizing, relocating, it is not just the Welfare cuts; there is cuts everywhere. But one place we cannot do, and no 22 more cuts can happen, is in our housing, whether it be PHA, Section 8, TRAC, whatever it is. We need to increase subsidized housing, not decrease subsidized housing. , HUD headquarters, where we need to have it. Yes, we can address it here locally. But the danger is, I am afraid, that the politicians at the federal level are considering something like clusterizing people. Now, concentration camps didn't work, and it will not work again. And you will have blood in your chambers before we will allow our people, just because we are poor, to be treated less than human beings. )
And this is not a threat. I am not a violent person. But putting me and my babies in the street, as with any person in this city, is a violent act. Now, we can pick up arms where we go to fight for our country. But right now we have to pick up arms to fight for ourselves to live, to eat, to have dignity. (Applause.) 538 RESOLUTION 970558
To live in a warm place in the winter, to have a kitchen with modern facilities. There was a woman in the subways at 12th and Market a few winters ago who asked me for some money. And I am a sucker; I give it to her. Because anything I get, the creator gives to me. And I said to her, "Well, what do you need it for? Don't use it for drugs." And this is a woman, a caucasian woman, who looked like she had a good life at one time. She appeared to be an educated woman. And I said to her, "Why do you need this?" She said, "Because I am having my menstrual cycle, and I don't have any sanitary napkins." Now, I don't mean to be vulgar or lewd. But we understand that this is a normal body function. Does anyone think about the woman who has her time of the month, who lives in the street in the summer because the city has nowhere for her to go? 539 RESOLUTION 970558 You put gates around City Hall at nights. Used to come into City Hall to use the bathrooms; that isn't happening anymore. We are gating off the subway corridors. What are the people to do? Where you as our representative have to work with us to come up with solutions. We are not asking you just to make the solutions. We are saying we are making ourselves available to assist in the solutions. We are saying that we are in need of jobs. When you want to hire inspectors to come and inspect these places and different things of that nature, look at some of the people who have been through the process, who are still humane enough to have still enough compassion left in them to realize at one time they was on the other side of that table. Now, I am going to wrap this up. But I appreciate your listening. And the next time that we come back, and the next time you have the pros and the cons, Section 8 was good when it started, it is good now, and it will be good in the future. 540 RESOLUTION 970558 Because we will always have a population who will need a helping hand. And as I said before, I believe that it is the 7th Commandment in the Bible, love thy neighbor as thyself. (Applause.)
We cannot pick and choose our neighbors; we have to just try to get along. Thank you for your time. (Applause.) CHAIRMAN COHEN: Thank you.
Praise the Lord. First of all I need to -- I'm upset. My name is Arthur Green, and I am a member of the Pennsylvania Coalition to Save Subsidized Housing. And I was here a few weeks ago, and I gave this -- read this elaborate speech. And I don't feel like I want to read that right now.
I wanted to say something. And, first, last time I didn't get a chance to thank someone. And I want to thank her 541 RESOLUTION 970558 today, Miss Jannie Blackwell. I was one of them people sleeping on the ground. (Applause.)
Look at me today, 100 pounds more. I don't have them five pair of pants I had on then. I am clean shaven today. I smell a whole lot better, and I look good. And I live my life fine. Back then, I was drunk every day and didn't care. Why I didn't care? Because nobody else seemed to care. Miss Blackwell, because of you, because of you caring, I began to care. I also brought my woman with me. And today we are celebrating close to five years of recovery. (Applause.)
And the two blankets that you gave us then, we still have. And they are Downy fresh and folded neatly in the cupboard. To that lady that said that there is a price on where you live, some people will never 542 RESOLUTION 970558 have that price. And why? Because there is a sickness in this world, among this human race, that says that one man is better than another. And that's just a fact. And we can't deny it. That's just the way it is. But because of people like Miss Blackwell and the people that are in this room, it will not last forever. Love will rule this world and hate will be devoured.
I don't believe she had any idea what it means to be homeless. For the people that have been homeless, and to come back like I did, it is miraculous. I think it is. I remember a time in my life I never thought I would be able to be where I am today. I would never be in here once before, and lost it all. But to come back, never. Never. But I am here today. And I am drug free, and I am an activist for other homeless people. I didn't forget where I came from. And for people that have never been there to sit 543 RESOLUTION 970558 there and say, "Well, oh, if you don't have the money to be there, you shouldn't be there, it ain't about that." Everybody deserves to have a home somewhere. If a bird can lay his nest where he wants to, if a fox can put a hole where he wants to, why can't a man live where he wants to? (Applause.)
This is crazy. I know amongst the people in the homeless, we sat in the underground, we respected each other, to watch out for each other's space. And if we had an altercation with one of us, we talked to each other. What's the problem with these so-called people that have it together in their neighborhoods? If you got a problem with your neighbor, you talk to them. What's the problem? The problem is in their mind. Because, first of all, they think they are better than them anyway. And why should I talk to them? They are below me. I have heard it so many times. That lady that just spoke that said about that -- you know what she reminded me of? I 544 RESOLUTION 970558 am from Little Rock, Arkansas. Let me tell you that. Do you remember them Little Rock Eight? They are black children that was not allowed to go in school. It wasn't no different than what she said. Who do you think is poor out here? And who do you think made them poor? I tell you one thing, the black people and the minority people, they didn't bring the drugs into the neighborhood. You know who did. You say it is not a race thing. Oh, yes, it is. And it has always been that. But it is even getting greater than that. A guy doesn't care what color you are now. If you got the money, then you are all right. But it can't continue to be that way. And this City Council need to look at Miss Blackwell. For me, she was amazing grace. And in this season of Thanksgiving, look at Miss Blackwell. Because she wasn't just about talk; she was about action. And this Council need to get on 545 RESOLUTION 970558 board, regardless of what the Mayor has to say, and do what you know is right. (Applause.)
Do what you know is right. This Mayor is getting ready to leave this term. He ain't going to be here forever. He is not going to be here forever. But goodness and mercy shall be here forever, and you need to act upon it. Thank you. (Applause.) CHAIRMAN COHEN: Thank you very much. Thank you. We very much appreciate your coming in.
Thank you, Councilman Cohen. CHAIRMAN COHEN: The last three speakers we are going to ask to come forward, Harvey Portner, Jean Bund, and Charles Reeves.
Thank you for your remarks. God bless you for your strength and your struggle. Thank you. 546 RESOLUTION 970558 CHAIRMAN COHEN: This completes the list of speakers that the Chair has knowledge of for today. If anybody wishes to be heard after these last speakers, you will be recognized.
My name is Charles Reeves from Grays Ferry. CHAIRMAN COHEN: What is your name?
Charles Reeves. I was here two weeks ago testifying -- CHAIRMAN COHEN: Charles Reeves.
-- about a situation in regard to the letters that have been instituted to people in the Northeast about Section 8 and the threat of bombing these people's houses. I spoke then, and somehow somebody here went and wrote something up that I stated that I was going to bring some black men into the Northeast to attack anybody that attack somebody's black family. Well, I want to straighten the record out with that. First of all, my statement was that the people who are running around threatening to bomb people's houses need to understand that they 547 RESOLUTION 970558 live in houses. My other statement in regard to going to the Northeast was that I am involved with a Committee for Justice. We have been meeting for the last three or four months now. We have decided that whatever area in the city where there is problems at, we would like to go in and try to resolve those problems, not to cause problems or not to exacerbate those problems. Now, last week some nitwit looked into the telephone book, evidently to look up for my address. And they seemed to see C. Reeves there. And they sent a letter to that address, which was a cousin of mine. Her name is Crystal Reeves. My name is Charles Reeves. They sent a threatening letter there threatening to -- threatening me in a way. Actually what they said was, they got some black members involved with their group, and they are talking about bombing unoccupied Section 8 houses. They are talking about bombing, I think, Congressman Borski's office and office realtors. And then they went on to say that if, in fact, they accidentally, I am guessing, bombed a 548 RESOLUTION 970558 black person's house, and I brought black guys from Grays Ferry into Northeast, that my house would be blown up or destroyed within hours. 5 Okay? Well, first of all, I want 6 them to know that you can't scare me. And I am 7 going to do God's work, and I am going to say what's 8 right, and I am going to speak out on what's wrong. 9 This whole Section 8 thing is a bunch 10 of racism. That's what it started out as at Grays 11 Ferry. Because I was at the first meeting, when 12 they were talking about marching on people's houses 13 with vigilante groups, when they was talking about 14 setting fire to people's houses and all this other 15 crazy stuff. 16 And Mr. John White was at that 17 meeting. Okay. He can verify what I am saying. 18 Okay. 19 And I didn't speak up then. And I 20 hope the Lord can forgive me, because I should have 21 spoke up then. 22 But this people in this town, with 23 this racist stuff that is going across this country, 24 I say it again, they better wake up and smell the coffee. Because people are doing too bad now, black 549 RESOLUTION 970558 folks, poor folks, white folks, Puerto Rican folks, and other folks are doing too bad now to be concerned about these nitwits who want to come out with the Skinheads and all the rest of the dumb stuff they decided to do, this stuff about bombing people's houses. I am sorry. You don't want to mess around with us right now because, see, we are hurting. Okay? And I am going to tell you, I am like this here, by any means necessary, so help me God, if you attack me, you ain't seen nothing yet in this town. So somebody better tell them guys in the Northeast to back off me and stop being so stupid. Because if you want to see Charles Reeves, all you have to do is send the word out, and I will come see you. You don't have to go look in no phone dictionary to find out where I live at, and then send a letter, a threatening letter, to some innocent people's houses, scaring them. Because I am not worried about you, because my life is in God's hands. And I will do 550 RESOLUTION 970558 anything necessary to make sure that anybody in this town, includes this good Mayor, with his racist-ass self -- and I think he is a racist too, because of his actions, the fact that he is not here. He don't respect the people here.
He couldn't come to Grays Ferry to the black community because he didn't respect the black people there. He got blacks down there now, with the preachers and the house people that work for the City of Philadelphia down there now trying to talk about the communities to heal. Well, the lady who was attacked is sitting over there now. Ask her if she heal. These people still threaten her and other black people in the streets up there in Grays Ferry. So there ain't no healing going on. We have this ecumenical group running around talking about everything. They say that we gave some turkey dinners out Thanksgiving. Well, Grays Ferry gave Thanksgiving dinners out for the last five years, over 450 of them. But we don't brag about it because that's the Lord's work. I just thank the Lord that we were able to do it. 551 RESOLUTION 970558 But somebody please talk to these ignorant guys. Tell them they don't want to even mess with Charles Reeves, because Charles Reeves had enough of them all, in Grays Ferry, Northeast, and way in the other part of the city where they have been attacking people. And I am talking about anybody that is under attack. Because I think it is a disgrace when we live in a city where we have police running all over the police, locking up people for whatever little dumb stuff they can find, but there is nobody dealing with these people who are threatening people's lives. They had the nerve to put the letter on TV two nights in a row. Now, tell me how these other black and ethnic groups in Northeast feel about sleeping in that community at night, when these people are putting a letter on the news talking about blowing up their homes. And nobody is doing nothing about it. Now, I understand the FBI is investigating because the Congressman was threatened. If the Congressman wasn't threatened, I guess the rest of us would be catching hell. 552 RESOLUTION 970558 I think the City of Philadelphia could be a good city. And I have to agree with some of the people who testified here this morning. The Mayor, the Council, the Police Commissioner, all of them better wake up. Because, see, once this town blows, it is gone for everybody. For the people in Center City, for the new people moving into the city, if this town blows, the whole damn thing is going to blow up, I am telling you. Because people are sick and tired of this. It is bad enough they can't get no 15 assistance. You talk about what we need to do about the Section 8. The John White sitting right here and said it. He had a meeting with the owners of these houses, along with this group out in Grays Ferry. And who was the owners? It was their uncles, their fathers, their cousins, their brothers, their mothers, their fathers. These are the people that are getting this money, getting this $700, $800 a month. It is their relatives who are renting the properties to these black folks and the 553 RESOLUTION 970558 other people in the Section 8. So if they got a problem, why don't they go to their family and relatives and tell them, don't sell them the houses. All they care about is the almighty dollar; that's their problem. But the other problem is that in Grays Ferry, white folks been selling drugs, white folks been fighting all along, ever since I been there. Police over there, it is still going on here. So it ain't no different. So don't tell me because these people who are trying to bring and lift theirselves up and come and get a house, I am not saying all of them are right. I'm not saying all of them know how to deal with a house. But then we have some people that live a long time, don't know how to deal with a house. Most of the white people in my area came out of the Tasker Homes years ago. And all they did over there was drink and fight. I know because I was there. Now, these same people move two blocks away, and all the sudden they are all homeowners. We know better than that. We know they 554 RESOLUTION 970558 have Section 8 houses.
We know they have got the other three programs going on Grays Ferry. These programs have been going on for the last 20-some years. Out in Southwest Philly, you have one legislator -- I don't know what he is, but I know he is a politician -- this man, I bet you he got at least 30 houses or more under the Section 8 program or scattered site program, and he is a millionaire. But nobody talks about these people. But the one thing we can say about Section 8 houses, the houses are not as bad a shape as some of these landlords, some of these problem landlords, that we can't get nothing done about them. In our area if we call the police and say we have a bad drug house, we can't get that house closed down. Can't nothing be done about it. But still we can get 100, 200 police there because some neighbors say that this neighbor down there is a Section 8 homeowner, and they are not cleaning their property up right. I know, because I have called the police and gave them the drug addict's number. And 555 RESOLUTION 970558 we can't get the houses closed down. And the police know every house in the area selling drugs. They know every last one of them. In that white community, we got people over there selling drugs a couple of weeks ago. Killed at least four people in that community within two weeks. I seen nothing about it in the newspaper. The police department is suppressing it, but we know what happened. There wasn't no black folks over there selling no drugs. But I don't hear none of that white community saying nothing about it. Now we have got ten criminals on file 15 in the first time in the history of Grays Ferry. And they are going to trial, for the first time, for attacking a family. " But they can jump on Section 8 people. Something wrong out there. And it is nothing but racism. And all we are saying is, please check it out. Let the police department do their work, let the Mayor speak about these issues before the state blow up on us. 556 RESOLUTION 970558 Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Thank you. ) CHAIRMAN COHEN: Please identify yourself for the record.
Good afternoon, Councilman Cohen and Councilwoman Blackwell. My name is Harvey Portner. I am the Admissions Representative of Professional Health Care Institute. And I am here to help Section 8, PHA, the whole nine yards. We have a program at our school which deals with, on an everyday level, homeless. And parroting what Mr. White so eloquently enunciated, let me add that I would like to become part of a pilot program to help monitor those who leave the shelters and go into PHA housing or Section 8 housing. We would be very happy to work in conjunction with a Committee of the Whole, or a group from the City Council. I think that we can do a job to follow through what I call the womb to tomb theory. 557 RESOLUTION 970558 From the time people go into housing and they have the birth of a child or two, we will come in and help train them, on-site or at the satellites that we are part of, to make sure that they can fit into the neighborhood, become good neighbors. Because the truth of the matter is, people are people are people, everywhere and anywhere. And the problem is, we fail to recognize it. So I am going to submit, through Councilwoman Blackwell's office, a pilot program which I hope, Mr. Chairman, she will pass through to you. Because we very, very definitely want to become part of this procedure. We can help. We have been in contact with homeless on a daily basis, currently train them for certified nursing assistance qualification. And Councilwoman Blackwell has all of the facts and figures. And I thank you for the time you have given me. And hallelujah to everyone. (Applause.) CHAIRMAN COHEN: Thank you very much. Now, is there anyone here who would 558 RESOLUTION 970558 like to be heard who has not been called? Would those who would like to be heard come forward. There is another committee that is scheduled to meet within minutes, and we want to make sure we conclude on time. Thank you. Please give your name first, and then proceed with your statement.
My name is Betsy Bridges, and I am the owner of the Parkside Apartment Building. And I have sat here and listened to the sad things that have happened to our fellow man, which I think is terrible. We run around the world and talk about human rights, and here we are, one of the richest countries anywhere, and we can't help people to get back on their feet and live like decent citizens. I think this is a shame. These people are not by choice poor or without a job. I feel that if you have given the person an opportunity to get a job and they don't want one, then okay. But here is a poor woman who needs 559 RESOLUTION 970558 help, and who probably maybe has fallen into drugs. We don't know just, until you look into the situation, the kind of problems they might have that needs to be helped. And when you think about the children that are coming, that need help because their parents are in trouble, we need to continue doing what we have been doing, and do more of it. In the building that I have, there have been mothers who are coming back from being drug addicts, who are no longer drug addicts, who are being trained the things they are doing wrong towards their children and how to help their children come back as good citizens, who are interested in their education, who want a good life. And not to allow the people to have Section 8 is a tragedy. This city -- and I was born here in Philadelphia, raised in Philadelphia, educated in Philadelphia. And I am not going to talk about Mayor Rendell, because he has been nice whenever I asked him for anything. So I can't go against someone who has tried to help. 560 RESOLUTION 970558 When people are upset and things are going wrong, you lash out at everyone because you don't know who is helping you. And I will say that, Mrs. Blackwell, I have to give her credit. Because she certainly has been a woman with a big heart, who has tried to help people. And I think that people, you are sitting here, and it upsets me. Because when it rains, we don't have too many people going to the polls. If you ask yourself, did you register? Did I vote? I vote all the time. And it doesn't take much for you to go to the polls. I don't care if it snowed tonight, I would go. I will get to the polls. But I would like to say to you, do not destroy a good program. When you walk around Philadelphia today, you see people -- I used to come in the city and be afraid to walk from one block to the other because there were people sleeping on the sidewalk. And it was the worst thing I had ever seen. I seen it in Haiti, but I didn't 561 RESOLUTION 970558 expect it here. Now, the little money that you spend to help a person become a good citizen is far more than it would cost you if you didn't help them. Thank you. That's all I have to say. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Thank you very much. What part of the city do you live in?
I live in West Mt. Airy, but my place is out there on Parkside Avenue. And it is a nice, clean building, and a building that is well kept. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Where about in Parkside?
41st and Parkside. Right there at Parkside Avenue. My place is right there on the corner. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Thank you very much, and for your expression of thoughts.
My name is Catherine Chavis. And I want to thank you once again for allowing me to be able to testify as 562 RESOLUTION 970558 President of the Catharine Street Tenants Association on behalf of the tenants. When I first moved to Philadelphia in the early '60s, I thought this was going to be a beautiful place for me to stay. I was fortunate enough, at least I put in my mind, to move to Catharine Street, which is the Catharine Apartments. And they have always been subsidized by the government. They were built in 1971 for that particular reason, to provide affordable, decent housing for those who cannot afford to pay the astronomical rents or even purchase a home. In order to do these things, you must have a decent job. For years I had an excellent job, until I was diagnosed about six years ago with an incurable illness that I live with every day. They have no cure for me. And I had to go on my disability two years ago because I could no longer work. And now I am faced with the prospect of becoming another status quo out here called homeless. 563 RESOLUTION 970558 I don't think this is fair to me. I don't think this is fair to my mother, who lives in the same complex, by the way, who used to live at Southwark Plaza Projects, which is at 4th and Washington Avenue. And back in 1982 they had garbage piled up to the ceiling. My mother could not get down out of the building; the elevators were not running. They had no heat and no hot water in there. And me and my son would have to go up and down those stairs in order to take food and different things and make sure that she was okay. And nobody should have to live like a dog. I lived in the Midwest, and I am not used to seeing this. I have lived in Los Angeles. And even though there are poor people there, I had never seen people sleep on the street in my life before, until I moved to this supposed to be City of Brotherly Love. And it has become so frustrating and so disgusting for me to look around and see. And I say to people, if you have not walked in these shoes, you don't even really know 564 RESOLUTION 970558 what it is all about. When you wonder where your next meal is going to come from, when you wonder how you are going to pay your rent, you don't know what it is like. You have to have lived there. You have to have been there before to understand what everybody is saying about this Section 8 program. It is an excellent program, but it has to be monitored more closely. Our landlord, I don't particularly care for them, and they know that, because they don't repair like they should. And if you monitor and see what's going on, then you wouldn't have the problem of them funds being wasted. I want to know -- I have asked the question several times -- how can they send money to Baltimore, Maryland, to some company, to a P.O. Box number, and not know who this person is, and it is being subsidized by HUD? This has been a real joke to me. Now, several years ago, back in 1994, we were promised the Title 6 funds. The government 565 RESOLUTION 970558 reneged on that. We have tried to go through the city, because we need to have a letter from RDA, which the person over there refuses to give to us, so we can get subsidies from the state. But nobody seems to want to help us. Catharine Street Apartments is a beautiful place. It is in the middle of Queen Village, on Catharine Street. You can come in there and see the apartments. The young women that live in there take excellent care of their places. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Who is your district Councilperson?
Frank DiCicco, who has turned his back totally on us. Okay? I have asked that man many times, many times, since he has taken over, would he help. Congressman Foglietta is the only one from that area who has really been by my side. And I have spoken to Councilwoman Blackwell, and she has tried to assist where she could, also. Senator Fumo has not helped, either. Okay? Our help came, like over the years, from Congressman Foglietta. 566 RESOLUTION 970558 And, you know, through all this, since our dreams have been shattered, we have been offered these vouchers and these Section 8 certificates, and they tell us, "Well, you can get another place to live." If the real estate people don't consider you as being a viable asset to their business, they will not rent to you. So why do we have to live in deplorable places? CHAIRMAN COHEN: May I make a suggestion to you? There were four Councilmembers at large that attended these hearings, Councilwoman Fernandez, Councilman Ortiz, myself Councilman Cohen, and Councilman Kenney. Each one of us has jurisdiction over that area as a Councilman-at-Large. We generally don't get into the specifics within a district, but our offices are always available for assistance.
Okay. I have sent -- CHAIRMAN COHEN: I suggest you write to all four of us, you know, with the same letter, just make copies of it, send it to the four of us.
I want to say 567 RESOLUTION 970558 something. I have done that before. I have sent to just about everybody here in City Council to let them know what was going on in Catharine Street. And there has been no response. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Don't just let us know; ask for help.
Well, I did. I asked for help. I asked for help. I told them everything that was going on in Catharine Street. It is a small unit. It is only 32 apartments. You would think it was over 2,000 apartments. There are seniors in there who cannot afford to go anywhere. There are seniors who are sick and disabled. They are comfortable in that neighborhood. Why should they be forced to go somewhere and they have no transportation? CHAIRMAN COHEN: I think you are right. That's the reason I am making suggestions.
Well, I would like to see you so I can get your phone numbers and addresses again. And I will send another copy. And I have no problem coming to your office, either. Because, like I said, I tried to 568 RESOLUTION 970558 set up an appointment with Councilman Frank DiCicco. In fact, he was at the Queen Village neighborhood meeting. He said, "Well, what am I supposed to do?" But they talk about tax breaks, though. CHAIRMAN COHEN: All right.
So I would really appreciate it if you could get those names. And I will get in touch with you. CHAIRMAN COHEN: I mentioned the four names, the Councilmen-at-large. Their names are listed everywhere.
And I vote every year, by the way. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Right. And send us the letters, and we will see what we can do.
I will drop them off personally. Because I have dropped one off at Councilwoman Blackwell's office. I will drop it off personally myself. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Why don't you give it to Councilwoman Blackwell, and she will be in touch with us.
Okay. She already has 569 RESOLUTION 970558 one copy, but I will bring another one. Thanks a million for your time. And I know you are going to turn this program around. Because you don't want to see all of us living in here. CHAIRMAN COHEN: Very good.
Have a good day. CHAIRMAN COHEN: That concludes the hearings for today. The hearing of the Law and Government and Licenses and Inspections Committee on Resolution 13 970558 is hereby continued until Wednesday, January 28, at 10:00 a.m. There being no further testimony, the session is in recess until that date. (Public Hearing adjourned at 1:10 p.m.) - - - 570 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, December 9, 1997, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COMMITTEES ON LAW AND GOVERNMENT and LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS _____________________________________ DEBRA A. WHITEHEAD, RPR