Two comments. Again, there's an audit required under the state-enabling law and, therefore, it's included in each ordinance. It's not an audit that is conducted by government, but is required by act of Council to be done by each BID. The other piece I would just add is that in terms of the process, there is a specified process, again, under the state law. This is the first 61 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 step of that process, the public notification and first public hearing. Again, the Chairwoman asked previously about what the level of support or what the level of objections were as known. There is a particular process that will be followed where all of the affected property owners would have to vote or in the case of if they wanted to not be included, to pose that they were objecting to this. So this is the very early phase of this and it's very much in the community's hands and the District Councilperson's hands to shape the process, and it will eventually come back to this body either amended or as is, but just to remind everybody involved, this is the first step of a prescribed state-mandated process.
Just a moment, please. 62 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.
Thank you, Madam President. Just so I'm clear here, Mr. Frishkoff, you may be able to answer this. These bylaws that I'm looking at now that's part of a bill, were they the same bylaws? I mean, we're reestablishing, so I assume these are the same bylaws?
I believe that these are the same bylaws, and they, again, can be amended as required.
Amended, I understand that. Now, it does say in here, sir, it says -- I won't obviously read the whole thing. But at the annual meeting, the Board of Directors shall appoint a new Board of Directors for the following year from a list of nominees, and all Directors shall serve for a term of one year. 63 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 Has anybody -- because I know there are organizations. I'm not defending this or knocking it one way or the other, but it's not unusual that some organizations, a lot of civic groups, a lot of organizations, do what you were describing, Vice-President becomes the President, President becomes the Treasurer, because there's only so many people that want to do it. Now, I'm not saying that's happening. I'm just giving you a description. Do you know, have you or anyone tried to apply to have one of these positions?
Well, one of the things that would help -- the world has changed. Everything runs in e-mail nowadays, and they give us the lists of all the members and we can't really contact each other because we don't have telephone numbers. Only the BID has all the contact information. 64 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 If I was to want to go and contact everybody and see who else wants to run, it's really very hard to do this. I think that the data that they have should be available to all business members, so if I wanted the list of all the e-mail addresses so I could contact everybody, I feel I should be allowed to do that. If I wanted the telephone numbers to everybody that owns a property in this BID area, I should be allowed to do that. And I have really no access to it, and I do believe if I went there, I'd get the run-around.
Wait a minute. Let me stop you there. You said you believe if you went there. Did you ever ask that question?
We'll have to see if we have it. But they have it when 65 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 they send it out for themselves. We have no -- there's no real good communication between all of the people that are in this area to be able to get together and make sure that the people that are elected are people that we choose, and I don't believe that the business owners and property owners are the people that choose the Board members, which I think is greatly unfair. I mean, I'm not saying that anybody on the Board members is doing anything -- maybe unethical, but not criminal. I mean, they're probably stretching things as far as they can, some of the members. And I don't agree with it, but I don't even know how to go up against them, because I'm not in the small group of people that make these decisions. I think that there's a lack of communication of what's really going on and how to change it within the group, and that's why you have the same four or five people every year. I mean, I don't 66 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 even know when there's a meeting. Years ago when it was run by the gentleman that owned the car dealership, they would announce the meeting, where it was, and plenty of people showed up. I haven't -- I don't even know where the meetings are. I never get notified. The only notification I received in a year came in this envelope and it was the BID process.
Excuse me. Miss, is there something that you'd like to add to this? Because I see that your hand has been up.
Would you come up to the witness table, please. (Witness approached witness table.)
Good afternoon, honorable people. My name is Jeanne Bethune and I work for the Philadelphia Department of Commerce, and the Roxborough Business Community is part of 67 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 my responsibility. I represent their business interests. I ensure full delivery of City services. I have played a very active role in the BID development. I was there day one. One of my assignments was, there was a grant given to the RDC Corporation to engage a consultant to explore the opportunity of becoming a business improvement district, and, in fact, they did hire Larry Houston. He is here present in Council today. And part of my responsibility was to ensure that those dollars were well spent. I never missed a meeting. The meetings started at 7:00. There was very active participation on the part of stakeholders, residents, people in general. There was a huge outreach. I even participated in getting folks interested in being concerned about the development and beauty, crime and safety of their community. With all due respect to these 68 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 gentlemen sitting here that I do know, particularly this gentleman here, he is a stakeholder in the community and there was an outreach, a huge outreach, through the media. Even I got out there on the street to ask the stakeholders and retailers to participate and show up, and how they could benefit in the long term if an organization like a BID could be formed. And I even talked to Lenny a half a dozen times to come join the Board, and he can admit to that. I just --
I'm hoping that by my sitting here today that you will recognize that the business improvement district made a concerted effort to get people involved, and even I did as well. So --
Excuse me. I've been in Roxborough for 15 years and own four properties, and I've never met you once. 69 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82
Excuse me. I don't think we're going to have a conversation here. Would you finish your testimony, please.
Yes. I am sitting here today because I would like to emphasize that there was a huge effort to get people involved continually, and I personally spoke with Lenny many times to ask him to get involved, to help in the decision-making during the development of the business improvement district. Now, I also want to say that for a fact there were stakeholders that were in the leadership position in the 70 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 form of the Board. Kelly Erb, who has a law firm, she was President. So you were saying that the Board is not representative of the stakeholders. We have a young woman who has a business who actually expanded her business through -- who sits on -- she's a stakeholder and she sits on the Board. There has been an active effort to reach out to people to get them to participate in the decision-making in this BID, very active. And I'm sorry, sir, if you were overlooked, but believe me, I personally sent letters and e-mails and things to try to get people to participate. So I just wanted --
71 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 Excuse me. I really appreciate your coming up to testify at this time.
Thank you, Madam Chair. What I would suggest here, I think one thing for sure, everybody agrees that the BID is a good thing. What I hear clearly is that we have a way to go to be inclusive of all people in light of full discovery and transparency and good things like that, that there might be a chance for us in this Council to improve upon a good thing by maybe changing and strengthening the guidelines and bylaws and electoral process, that we can make people a little more comfortable 72 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 with how notice is given and how participation is encouraged. I don't think that it will do us any good to continue on back and forth introducing people. We have work to do, clearly, and I'd like you to allow us the time that's already built into this hearing process and then discovery process and then rehearing process to allow us to fix what we think might be made better.
I was going to suggest that we were going to have to, under any circumstances, continue this until April the 30th. I don't see any reason why this can't be worked out with the community in your working with them, Councilman, to come to some conclusion by April the 30th.
With that being said, I see that there are a number of people who have been sitting 73 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 here for some time. I don't know whether you would like to add to the record today your testimony or whether you want to wait until April the 30th. Do you want to come forward, sir? (Witness approached witness table.)
Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record.
My name is Marco Gidaro. I'm a resident of the neighborhood. I have no affiliation with the Roxborough Development Corporation, nor do I have any affiliation with any business on the Ridge. I'd like to speak to the effects of the BID over the last five years. My wife and I -- I've been a resident there for about 13 years. My wife and I will walk the Ridge now because of this BID. Clearly, there have 74 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 been improvements to the Ridge because of this funding. I disagree with the gentleman's statement that he came up with a number of 50 percent increase in traffic. I think the number clearly is above that. There's many, many, many people walking the Ridge because it's safer, it's cleaner and there's many businesses that are open later. So I'd like for the Council to take that into consideration when they vote on this in April.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Thank you again for your patience and coming in to testify.
Thank you. 75 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82
Do you want to identify yourself for the record?
My name is Leonard Bracale. I own a couple properties on there. The other question and concern that I have is that the types of properties which are assessed, if it's residential, commercial. I don't know if the gentleman, Andrew, from the Commerce Department can answer this, but multi-unit properties are being assessed when there's no active day-to-day business being taking place. Is there any way by April 30th can we -- is that something also that we can work on?
Again, I think there will be a follow-up meeting on this with the community, with the businesspeople, with the Councilman, with the people from Commerce. Whatever 76 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 questions you have, I believe that would be the time to ask them and work things out to the best of everybody's satisfaction. At this time, the Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, sir. Did you say you are a property owner?
One is a rental property. Matter of fact, they're both rental properties, and I also own a business. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The rental properties, are they commercial/retail or are they residential?
They are zoned 77 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 commercial. It's a six-unit apartment building. There's no active day-to-day business taking place. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But they're revenue-producing properties?
Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Because you mentioned something that -- I think you said that you didn't see the purpose of or you would rather not see properties that are not retail/commercial being assessed?
When you pay the business use and occupancy, when you look through the code, they determine -- like if we had a parking lot and we're renting space for a parking lot, it's a day-to-day active business. If I had an office where I solicited renters, it's an active day-to-day business. There's no active day-to-day business there, and it's pretty much outside the business corridor, so, therefore, I think there's some kind of 78 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 leeway that if you want to be in it, if you want to benefit in the BID, you should be able to pay and reap the benefits. If not, you do not reap the benefits. And from what I understand from Andrew -- I think he's City Commerce -- that other BIDs, some of those properties are not included in the tax. Ours just happens to include everything, vacant land, mixed use, that type of thing. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: There are different formulas in different neighborhoods. I have in my district a number of business improvement districts and they all -- in their growing stages, in their infancy stages, there are similar complaints and concerns, but over the long haul, any time we had to do renewals, there was no opposition, very little opposition, if any, and all of the places that in the 12 years that I've been here that I've been a party to in creating these districts, the benefits 79 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 have certainly outweighed any negatives, if there are any, and everybody wins, whether it is a commercial/retail property or an investment property with apartments, because a better quality of life that is brought to the community as a result of these BIDs benefits everyone in terms of property values and the clients that you're looking to rent your properties to. And I just wanted to make sure that I heard you right, because even though you may not fit into that retail categorization or classification, your properties are revenue-producing properties. And there's nothing wrong with that, but they're businesses. I look at residential rental as a business. So I just wanted to make sure I heard you clear on that.
Yeah. I just looked in the business use and occupancy and that's what it stated. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Understand. Thank you. 80 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82
And also with the buying -- with the BIDs buying properties, there has to be some concern. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well -- Madam Chair, with your permission -- again, in the southern part of my district along the East Passyunk Avenue corridor, but for the fact that the BID and a non-profit were in a position to purchase properties and get that critical mass to begin to market the commercial corridor properly, the improvements that we've seen in the last two, three years with an interest of people wanting to open up businesses and stay open longer hours would not have been successful. There are growing pains, there's no question about it, that you go through when you do these things, but they're all meant for one purpose and one purpose only, to make it a better community, a safer community and a community in which you will not only retain people but attract new people to 81 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 come to. And if you're ever down in South Philly, I would suggest you go down to the East Passyunk --
I go to Marra's all the time. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, you see Marra's has fixed up their front, the first time in a hundred years?
My father had a business down there. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: There are a number of restaurants that have opened up, and it's all as a result of the BID and the CDC working together to make it a better environment. It's really --
And I'm all for that. It's when you buy property and you rent it to Directors -- I think there's like five Directors -- and what's the rent is he paying, who put the lighting, the cappuccino machine. It's got to be a 82 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 $6,000 cappuccino machine. All these questions, not that I've raised them, I have different -- there's a baker on the street. There's a pizza guy on the street. You know, they all ask. I'm kind of in the middle of it. You know, you see they're working. I'm in the middle of this, and that's why I'm voicing my opinion. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: They're legitimate questions that should be brought up not only here but at the BID meetings.
Bernard, the Executive Director, he told me that the BID, that they paid for all that stuff because it's their property. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, the BID again in South Philadelphia at Passyunk Avenue has purchased and done some renovations to properties as well.
But did they put like refrigeration? COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think 83 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 they may have. I'm not absolutely sure. I'm not involved in the day-to-day, but there are certain things that -- if improvements are made to a building for the purpose of making it more attractive for a potential renter, then you would do that. It's a business decision.
So what happens when you go to sell the building? Say, if one of the Board members wants to buy it?
Let me just say this -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I can't speak to all of this.
-- I don't think this is the forum to be addressing your concerns and your issues. I am sure that in the very near future there will be a meeting arranged.
Without a doubt. We would like to meet with both sides of this. Again, let me reemphasize that 84 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 in most of the business associations I've been involved with, one of the healthier signs about them is when there is contention sometimes between factions, and in the best-case scenario, that those concerns get addressed and that they work it out and we move forward. Because I didn't hear not one person today say that that BID was not a good idea. I think inclusion, transparency are issues and some questions that you have that are legitimate need to be answered. So I'd like to provide a forum by which they get those concerns addressed, bring it back to this body and then we'll decide from there.
Very good. The gentleman in the back would like to be recognized. Would you please approach the witness table. (Witness approached witness table.)
85 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 Identify yourself for the record, please.
Thank you. My name is Michael Cooley, C-O-O-L-E-Y. I'm a real estate developer and I was born and raised in the neighborhood of Roxborough. My company currently owns or is the equitable owner of approximately properties along the Ridge Avenue 10 business district. And these are not 11 small properties. These properties 12 encompass almost seven acres of land 13 along Ridge Avenue and almost a couple 14 thousand lineal feet. And what I'd like 15 to do is simply state my position that 16 this BID process is vital to the long-term success and the quality of life in Roxborough. I started developing properties in Roxborough in the last five years and have recently completed, I would say, one of the largest projects that have occurred in the last 30 years. My father still lives in the house we grew up in. He's been living 86 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 there for 50 years, and I was fortunate enough as a child to be able to walk to the shops, as some of the previous people testified said. I used to be able to walk to the shops on Ridge Avenue and shop as a young child with my family to buy the goods and services needed as a family. Since then -- that was over 25, 30 years ago. Since then, in the past 11 or 20 years, Ridge Avenue has somewhat 12 deteriorated into a state where we have 13 dilapidated properties, abandoned 14 properties, vacant businesses, and it is 15 a shame to have seen these properties get to that condition. I am fortunate enough to be in a position where I'm developing these properties and am now attracting businesses of national retail level, down to regional business levels and local business levels, to bring them back into the community to make it a much more vibrant community for the businesses and the residents. 87 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 So my position is simply that this is a vital component for the long-term success of this neighborhood.
Thank you very much. We appreciate your coming in to testify.
Thank you. Does anyone else want to be recognized? Please approach the witness table. (Witness approached witness table.)
Good afternoon. My name is Christine Martin. I'm a business owner and 30-year resident of Roxborough, and I just came in to give my support for the BID. I moved my business onto Ridge Avenue about three or four years ago 88 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 because I was already seeing the improvements that were happening because of the BID that was in place. I just see more and more possibilities. And the lighting, my store has benefited from the lighting. They were placed every so many feet, and it just enhances the whole feeling and it makes you have some hope that the street will return and be the viable meeting place for everybody in the community that it used to be. Thank you.
That stems from our question, is that the Vice-President, he installs all these lights. He has the contract. He installs the lights, the Vice-President of the RDC. That's one of our concerns.
We are really not in a position at this point in time to be dealing with your concerns. As I said previously, it's up 89 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 to the community, the businessmen, the Councilperson representing that area and someone from the Department of Commerce. You all have to get together and decide what it is you want to do. Yes, Ms. Martin?
I'm sorry. One thing I also wanted to say was that I've been involved with the RDC before I even moved up onto the corridor. Part of it was, I was interested. I wanted to get involved. I wanted to be on committees. I went up, What committee can I -- so you have to be willing to put something out and put your face in and say, How can I help you first, instead of necessarily, Well, what are you doing for me. And I just wanted the Council to know, too, that I think it's important to put yourself out if you want to be involved and you really want the transparency and that kind of thing. Because I've seen the budget. I've been there for all sorts of different events within the RDC. 90 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 So it's only a matter you really have to put yourself out.
Do you want to testify? (Witness approached witness table.)
I just want to say, I'm not against the RDC. I just want to make sure it's run properly.
-- 91 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82 sir, that you go to the meeting.
Well, I'm sure you will be. And before you leave today, see the Councilman or his legislative assistant, give your name, address and telephone number, and I'm sure that they would be very happy to notify you of the next meeting. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good afternoon. My name is Dale Kline. I'm a business owner on Ridge Avenue. Four years ago I opened up a business and I wanted to become involved. I saw that the RDC had advertisements for volunteers in the local newspaper. I went there. I volunteered. I put in my time for two years and I got asked to be on the Board. I did not know anybody on the Board, and I'm currently the Board President. 92 3/13/08 - RULES - BILLS 080077 and 82
Do we have anyone else to testify? (No response.)
Seeing no one, this Committee will stand in recess until April the 30th at 10:00 a.m. And, again, I suggest those of you who have been involved, stay involved. Those of you who have not, I encourage you get involved before the 30th. (Committee on Rules adjourned at 2:40 p.m.) - - - 93 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on March 13, 2008, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)