civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - August 17, 2021

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Aug 17, 20215h 9m

I just wanted to hear.

Similar wording

Go ahead.

Similar wording

Let's get your client to adopt your test.

Similar wording

finish what you were about to say yeah i was just going to say i know there were some emails sent

Similar wording

around to the board about the rco meeting that we didn't have one and we do obviously have proof of

Similar wording

that so i just wanted to uh make that clear and uh we submitted the rco's letter and we had two

Similar wording

meetings um that we included in the packet so just wanted to clear up the any of that confusion

Similar wording

Good notice. Thank you. And your client? Byron Watson. Yes. My name is Byron Watson.

Similar wording

Mr. Watson, please spell your first and last name. Sure. First name Byron, B-Y-R-O-N. Last name Watson, W-A-T-S-O-N.

Similar wording

You swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, sir. Thank you. Ms. Pritzker.

Similar wording

Byron, have you heard my testimony today and do you believe it to be true and accurate and do you

Similar wording

adopt it as your own? Yes ma'am. Thank you. Thank you. Questions from the board? No. No. Thank you.

Similar wording

Anyone else would like to testify in this case, please raise your hand.

Similar wording

Yeah, we have North Central Philadelphia CDC. Okay, whoever was representing that RCO,

Similar wording

please identify yourself. Spell your full name. Tina Marie Russell, T-I-N-A-M-I-R-I-E-R-U-S-S-E-L-L.

Similar wording

You swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do. Thank you, ma'am. Please proceed.

Similar wording

I do. I said please proceed. Thank you. Okay. So I'm going to clear up some things here,

Similar wording

some comments that were made. One, it was said in the beginning that no one received this letter

Similar wording

or the summary. The letter and the summary was sent out in March when we had our first RCO meeting,

Similar wording

I mean ZBA hearing. So I didn't know I needed to send it again because I thought it would already

Similar wording

be in the files. So the first letter we sent and the only letter that we sent to the ZBA and all

Similar wording

parties involved, including the applicant, was sent in March prior to the ZBA hearing, which was

Similar wording

continued. And then we had a second continuance. And now we're here today. I then also stated that

Similar wording

there was an active activity to reach the RCO. I received an email about a week ago,

Similar wording

which I did not know was in there. I was actually, someone went to my attention. I did not

Similar wording

see that email. And I received, I was told that I received one phone call. So I just want to

Similar wording

clarify that. And obviously, it was also said that no letter was sent, but yet, as you can see in the

Similar wording

packet from the attorney, she does have the letter and the summary. So I wanted to clarify that as

Similar wording

well for the record. So all parties involved did receive a letter from the RCO and a summary from

Similar wording

the RCO. And I'd like to get the other activity that was stated that was not sent. I'd like to

Similar wording

that scratch from the record because that is not true. Also, I'd like to say that no one from the

Similar wording

RCO ever said that there was no board, no R-community meetings. All communities have

Similar wording

been documented, and we actively engaged in hosting these meetings with the applicant to

Similar wording

ensure that those meetings were held because we are fully engaged in our community and make sure

Similar wording

that our community has a voice. So we had the meeting and one of the rationales for the denial

Similar wording

was not that we're denying, what we're denying is the way the variance is requested is stated

Similar wording

because most of the people at the meeting were not clear about what the applicant was asking for

Similar wording

because if they're looking to, somebody determined that this is what was determined,

Similar wording

They do not mind having the existing building being used as apartments, but that wasn't a request on the variance change.

Similar wording

The variance change said they want to do an addition.

Similar wording

And this is the part that the community had did not, most of the community did not agree to.

Similar wording

They did not agree to the variance change for the following, for the extension, I should say, for the following reasons.

Similar wording

One, the size and length of the extension will cause shade and wind changes to the other properties.

Similar wording

And I needed a study done to see whether or not, you know, what that shading would mean to those existing, you know, to the house to the left of the property, because they're going to be going further out with their extension, as well as height.

Similar wording

So that also will cause some type of an issue as far as the wind and the movement of the shading from that particular extension.

Similar wording

They also wanted the community said that they don't mind.

Similar wording

They also wanted the community said that they don't mind the existing property being used as apartments, but they'd rather have, and if they want to do the extension, they'd much rather keep it as a single family unit as opposed to, because that's the variance.

Similar wording

So Varian says that the applicant has to show hardship.

Similar wording

And so far, everything the applicant has stated is not really showing a hardship.

Similar wording

Because when they bought the property, he knew what it was there for.

Similar wording

And I'm still trying to figure out where that hardship comes in at.

Similar wording

Remodeling that house as is is not a hardship.

Similar wording

It's no different than anyone else.

Similar wording

And in our community, hundreds of people are really renovating existing houses as is.

Similar wording

They're not putting extensions on it.

Similar wording

We also, they also talked about the pilot roof, and they wanted to make sure that if

Similar wording

they don't, they rather, it has to, well, so many different pieces to this.

Similar wording

So we want to say there's different components that the community would like to agree to

Similar wording

if, or at least have a word in if this variance is passed as is.

Similar wording

But right now, we just want to tackle one situation at a time, and that is whether or

Similar wording

not you want to take this single existing property and make it into a triplex or make it into a

Similar wording

duplex so the community is saying they would grant a duplex or a single family that's pretty much

Similar wording

what they're saying as far as the existing and the applicant is saying that they have a buy right to

Similar wording

make an extension so the question on the table from what and this is why they were so confused

Similar wording

us which way to go, which was, if the question on the table is, do we make a triplex or a duplex

Similar wording

or a single family? So they're saying, listen, we'd rather have a single family. However,

Similar wording

if it gets to get granted, we will okay a duplex. And that's the way the community

Similar wording

read the variance request as it was stated. So it was kind of convoluted. We have a lot

Similar wording

seniors on that block and they really just couldn't put a firm nail to that. And I'm at

Similar wording

loss myself because it is stated differently. So is the situation about the extension or is it about

Similar wording

the change in the variance, which is a duplex, a triplex, or a single family? And that's pretty

Similar wording

much where we stand at with this. I don't know if it sounds confusing, that's because we're still

Similar wording

confused by it so summary single family if it still gets passed we rather do a duplex

Similar wording

and the rationale is as i stated they didn't show hardship and the size and dimension of the

Similar wording

of the existing is conformed with the existing historical nature of that neighborhood

Similar wording

and if you add on to it it needs to be some type of study done to see how

Similar wording

that that extension will affect the surrounding community

Similar wording

what i heard you is say mentioned in your testimony something if it were to be approved

Similar wording

as a triplex there was i'm paraphrasing there was were there provisos you were the community

Similar wording

what are those provisos well if it's it depends on what it is that it gets approved by see that's

Similar wording

the whole thing let me finish if it were approved as a triplex which is what the application is

Similar wording

asking for are there provisos that the community wants you'd like to have implemented as a triplex

Similar wording

and if so what what are those provisors um now that i know about the buy right i'm not sure how

Similar wording

to even perform this but i would say that they they did not want the extension right they were

Similar wording

okay with the apartments as is and not with an extension on it if it's and again these are these

Similar wording

ifs if it has an extension then they don't want to pile it they don't want to have all the um

Similar wording

balconies etc they want definitely want a trash plan they want to make sure that there's no one

Similar wording

living in the basement the basement all right slow down one second when you say they don't

Similar wording

want a pilot are you referring to a pilot house for a roof deck exactly i don't think and correct

Similar wording

me if i'm wrong rachel there's no roof deck proposing this is there no so there's no roof

Similar wording

deck being proposed i remember okay so um all we're proposing are you looking at the are you

Similar wording

looking at the current plans i'm asking i'm asking the attorney for the applicant and she's stating

Similar wording

on the record the proposal is not to include a roof deck which would would necessitate a pilot

Similar wording

a pilot house okay great so that goes away no roof okay great and no living in the basement

Similar wording

house okay great so that goes away no roof okay great and no live

Similar wording

that's fine we don't have living space proposed in the basement we just have an office down there

Similar wording

well that's same excuse me chair can i interrupt for one minute yes ms pritzker i believe in the

Similar wording

proviso plans form the request for the decks was represented having been made at the request of the

Similar wording

the community. Is that correct? The rear the rear decks not the roof deck yes. Right for purpose of

Similar wording

trash storage or whatever correct? And open space correct chairman. Right you're right with that.

Similar wording

So that would address the that would address Ms. Russell the trash issue. Right because we

Similar wording

suggested that because there was the applicant had no other recourse for the trash for the second

Similar wording

the third floor okay we understand that well if we put some type of outside porch there would that

Similar wording

be a place where they could hold their trash that is in the that is part of the proposal

Similar wording

right but then but then we also said that if there's no decks then they can actually keep

Similar wording

all their trash in the lower in the basement level so they want to actually extend the basement as

Similar wording

well um on the if they pull out they also want to pull out the basement and actually dig out a new

Similar wording

basement for the for the accommodations of a quote-unquote office space but the community

Similar wording

doesn't like that idea they want to keep the basement as is and keep the um the um

Similar wording

the building as is they really don't want an extension on it um but again we're kind of like

Similar wording

at odds now because we don't understand you know we didn't understand the whole point of the buy

Similar wording

right part that was not disclosed so now we didn't have any discussion on that so i'm trying to

Similar wording

improvise the best i can with this type of information so we can't do trash for all the

Similar wording

units in the basement because only the bottom has access so it's a safety issue and um so that's why

Similar wording

we you know put the decks on the back to be able to sort of solve that issue and not have to have

Similar wording

other people go into the right so the other proviso then would be not to extend out that

Similar wording

basement level i don't know again what we can do with that all of that by right so like right

Similar wording

exactly basement is a buy right and all and all and just to just to shed a little light um one of

Similar wording

the things we tried to do it as the our architect provided was really be considerate with a minimal

Similar wording

addition you know we have a 67 foot rear yard so to you know we could have gone back all the way

Similar wording

to nine feet of a rear yard and we haven't so we really have a quite a modest addition and the

Similar wording

reason for it which we tried to explain was given the fire and the damage done to the building the

Similar wording

way that it is it's a very odd layout um even if it was to be a single family it's an incredibly

Similar wording

odd layout given the damage and that was part of the hardship there was actually a fire at this

Similar wording

property which the board can clearly see from the photos this is not just a pretty good shaped shell

Similar wording

with an open box i mean this building is in terrible condition for almost eight years now

Similar wording

um so the and there's no height uh insofar as an addition that extends from the roof it's just all

Similar wording

in the rear um and all and i don't believe that it would really affect wind conditions um given

Similar wording

again it's it's all the additions are viral and i respect your opinion on that but we need a study

Similar wording

i'm sorry miss russell i'm sorry okay if you look at the picture right here just showing you

Similar wording

you can see that the neighboring house

Similar wording

will be affected by that extension.

Similar wording

They're going to definitely have some type

Similar wording

of an issue with that. I just think that it's

Similar wording

not fair to that neighboring property

Similar wording

for you to extend out and be so

Similar wording

different than everyone else on the block.

Similar wording

I need one more time, please.

Similar wording

Thank you. I apologize.

Similar wording

I can comment

Similar wording

along the lines of

Similar wording

the

Similar wording

property to

Similar wording

the south, the sun

Similar wording

rises and it basically always shines to the south so our building would shadow to the north

Similar wording

the property to the north is owned by byron so the only property where that would really gain

Similar wording

additional shadow would be the vacant lot directly to the north of this building

Similar wording

thank you all right is there anyone else who would like to testify in this case

Similar wording

please raise your hand there's a couple members in the community that are having trouble figuring

Similar wording

out how to raise their hand from their phone um is it star six is it star nine i'm just i don't

Similar wording

typically dial in so i'm not it's star nine it's uh star nine and then uh and then star six thank

Similar wording

you chair we have byron watson you may unmute yourself and please wait for the chair

Similar wording

Mr. Watson, please spell your full name

Similar wording

Mr. Watson, please spell your full name and I'll swear you in.

Similar wording

and I'll swear you in.

Similar wording

That's the owner.

Similar wording

He was already.

Similar wording

Oh, yeah.

Similar wording

I thought there was another one.

Similar wording

I apologize.

Similar wording

I'm sorry.

Similar wording

Anyone else to testify in this case?

Similar wording

Yes, we have Heather Logan.

Similar wording

Please unmute yourself and wait for the chat.

Similar wording

Thank you, Ms. Logan.

Similar wording

Hello.

Similar wording

Spell your full name and I will swear you in.

Similar wording

heather h-e-a-t-h-e-r logan l-o-g-a-n your address

Similar wording

two zero two two west glenwood avenue you swear from to tell the truth the whole truth nothing

Similar wording

about the truth yes i do and how far away is that where you're at how far is it from where

Similar wording

you reside to this property it's directly behind me oh behind you thank you please proceed

Similar wording

So we, I am a concerned resident. I was in on the RCO meetings that we had with the community.

Similar wording

The majority of the people on our block are okay with having, and I can also speak for the block

Similar wording

captain because she's my aunt. With all due respect, you have to testify on your behalf.

Similar wording

not a problem i can i can do that um i don't have an issue with the building as a whole or with the

Similar wording

um additions that the applicant is trying to do for the property this building has been an eyesore

Similar wording

in the community um to have him come in and beautify the building would be a blessing for

Similar wording

the community as well. We've also asked Mr. Watson to work with the community as a whole,

Similar wording

and he has agreed to all of those concerns. The meetings that we had, we did bring up the

Similar wording

basement easement and things of that nature. His architect did explain what those, why he needed

Similar wording

the basement easement, and the office space in the basement. All of those things are absolutely

Similar wording

fine. I can state for myself, I don't have an issue with anything that this project is going

Similar wording

through at this time thank you chairman i think you're on mute

Similar wording

thank you i apologize anyone else to testify in this case

Similar wording

yes chair we have crystal merit please unmute yourself and please wait for the

Similar wording

good afternoon ma'am or please please spell your full name i'll swear you in

Similar wording

yes my full name is crystal c-r-y-s-t-a-l merit m-e-r-r-i-t-t and your address

Similar wording

2433 north 20th street thank you do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth

Similar wording

nothing but the truth yes sir thank you man please proceed um i've been on this block and i'm not

Similar wording

quite sure um if i don't you know i don't remember well i've been on this block for maybe five years

Similar wording

i have never no one has never come i don't even know who who's supposed to be representing our

Similar wording

block but i am the assistant block captain on 20th street um mr byron um came and and we welcome

Similar wording

now i went around and and and the community on our block because that's where the uh

Similar wording

the property will be rebuilt on our block and we are so excited to have that building redone

Similar wording

and and and he also is contributing to the community by helping us fix up um these lots

Similar wording

pick gates around them um um and we welcome that um i don't know who miss tina marie is

Similar wording

because she already spoke so i'm sure i can you know kind of say i never met her i don't know her

Similar wording

I don't know why she's saying our community here on 20th Street, because we don't know who she is.

Similar wording