These goals are reflected in the broad array of neighborhood development programs, initiatives, and accomplishments in the 65 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 past year. 1 million in program income, and that is 5 basically reauthorizing the use of the revolved 6 loan funds at PCDC and PIDC. 7 To help meet these goals, this year, we 8 will expanding our targeted CDC support efforts in 9 lower Germantown and eastern north Philadelphia. 10 Our basic lending programs are divided among the 11 Philadelphia Commercial Development Corporation, 12 the Philadelphia Industrial Development 13 Corporation, and the Commerce Department itself. 14 Our Small-Business Lending and Facade Improvement 15 Programs are implemented at PCDC. 4 million. The 19 Facade Programs will be funded at $200,000. And 20 our new Targeted Neighborhood Commercial Area 21 Acquisition Program will be funded at $100,000, 22 with an additional $450,000 dedicated to the 23 completion of the Italian Market Canopy Program. 24 The Housing Contractors Program will provide 25 approximately $1 million in lending. 66 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 PCDC will also provide support for the Small-Business Support Center, and the Micro Loan Program. These efforts are funded primarily through non-CDBG resources. PCDC will continue to operate the Targeted Neighborhood Commercial Area Program, its program, and this program provides an array of support services to 38 commercial areas throughout the City. A listing of these areas is attached and in the ordinance itself and the plan. In addition, PCDC will provide direct assistance to for-profit businesses and nonprofit organizations which act as key service-providers and employers in these areas. The principal goal of the TNCA Program is to enable businesses to remain and expand while providing needed goods, services, and employment opportunities for Philadelphia's low- and moderate-income residents. PCDC will provide acquisition grants to community-based development organizations located in one of the TCNAs. The organization will acquire an approved property, and after the improvement is completed, the organization will 67 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 either lease or sell the property to a business which will provide retail goods or services to the low- and moderate-income residents of that neighborhood. 4. The business will be required to create at least one permanent full-time job equivalent for every $10,000 of grants assistance. It is anticipated that at least properties will be required, 15 renovated, and occupied. This is a detailed 16 example of one of our programs. 17 Our major commercial and industrial 18 lending programs are administered by the PIDC. 19 These include our CDBG Mortgage Loan Program, the 20 Neighborhood Development Fund, and our Section 108 Loan Programs. 9 million will be used to support the Mortgage Loan and Neighborhood Development Programs, and that is program income-revolved funds. At Commerce, we will continue to 68 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 provide neighborhood development and planning grants to nonprofit community-based organizations. We will also expand our Targeted Neighborhood Support Services Grants. We will provide support to organizations in the American Street and West Parkside Enterprise Zones, Germantown, West Philadelphia, South Philadelphia, Frankford, Central, and North Philadelphia, and Eastern North Philadelphia. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Council for your ongoing commitment to the Office of the City Representative and Commerce Department's Economic Development activities. I look forward to working closely with members of Council to continue to strengthen the economic base of the City. My colleagues and I are pleased to respond to any of your questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. I assume then that Mr. Traylor and Curtis and PIDC, you're here as support, in case we have any questions. All right, thank you. And now is our time to ask questions. 69 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 In the strategic plan, it's estimated that -- I guess we will need Mr. Kromer back up for these questions. (John Kromer comes forward.)
Let me ask you a general question, first. Priority level is assigned to meet specific needs. For example, in the area of drug and alcohol addiction, those individuals with severe mental illness are getting a lower priority. Is that because there are other funding streams for them in terms of the priority listing for drug and alcohol versus mental illness?
Yes. And with other services that can be funded through available City or State funding or that are part of the City's service programs, we have assigned a lower priority.
In terms of -- you estimated that it would take $264 million to address priority needs. How do you determine that and how does this relate to the $68 million we're getting? How do you make those assessments?
I believe the assessment 70 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 is made by staff contacting other City agencies which deliver the services to establish the estimate of what it would cost. The emphasis of the Community Development Block Grant Program is -- housing is the only funding really that's available for housing. And so, rather than provide supplemental funding for service programs, we've tried to fund the development, bricks-and-mortar piece of special-needs housing so that available service funding can be used to complement that. And the arrangement with the Health Department and other service agencies funded by the City is to -- is for us to provide the bricks-and-mortar funding supplemented by their service support.
Do you know how long the waiting list is for transitional housing? I'd like to have an estimate of what that is and also what the lists look like.
The Director of Special Needs Housing will provide some information. 71 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326
It's actually much more straightforward than I expected. The referrals are made by OESS based on the needs of shelter residents. And my understanding is that there is no waiting list.
There's no 9 waiting list for transitional housing?
That's right. My understanding is that the shelter residents who are ready to move to transitional housing are referred to OHCD programs by OESS.
That's almost unbelievable. Okay. What about the list for those who want to move from transitional to permanent housing, do you have any idea what that number is? Those who want to take the next step?
Good morning. My name is Dainette Mintz. I'm the Director of Special Needs Housing at OHCD. 72 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 Presently, the Transitional Housing Program provides months of rental assistance 4 for homeless families that are referred out of the 5 City's shelter system to the program. And we 6 currently have about 100 families who are in their 7 18- to 20-month time period in the Transitional 8 Housing Program who would be moving on to 9 permanent housing. 10 The majority of them would be moving 11 into permanent housing or other transitional 12 housing programs that we fund through our special 13 needs housing development activity, and then a 14 smaller number of them will also be moving into a 15 Section 8 housing program as their names have 16 risen to the top and certificates become 17 available. 18
Do you have 19 any idea? I know that we have a relationship also 20 with PHA. 21
Do you have 23 any idea what that looks like in terms of people 24 then moving from transitional permanent housing, what we have, and what we need? 73 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326
During the course of the current fiscal year, we have not had any families who have moved into the Section 8 Program. What we're looking at and what we have available and have identified is 100 families who are on the Section 8 waiting list, who have been in the Transitional Housing Program and are slated to move into the Section 8 Program when they reopen and begin to make available certificates.
So in other words, we have 100 families in transitional, and we don't have any Section 8's -- we don't have any program to move 'em out at this point?
We have 100 families in transitional housing who have been earmarked for the Section 8 Program who are in either their 18 to 24 months. We try to prepare them as they get into last six months of that program and be able to transition out into other long-term housing programs. So right now, we have identified 100 families who are prepared to move out of the Transitional Housing Program into the Permanent Housing Program. We've been working with the 74 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 Section 8 Program to assist those 100 folks. We have some additional families, probably about 25 families, who are in that same category, who will be moving into other special-needs housing, permanent housing, or other long-term transitional housing programs.
So then in six months, we should have available for transitional housing the opportunity for other families to go from shelter to transitional housing.
It was estimated on that the number of elderly non-homeless special- needs individuals will progressively decrease over the next two years. Why is that so? Is it because of new housing developments such as we're trying to do out west? Why is that so citywide, that our non-homeless elderly will decrease in the next two years?
What we are looking at, in terms of non-homeless special-needs population is the ability to assist folks in place, where they're currently residing. So we have increased our technical assistance budget line in the Year 75 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 plan in terms of being able to provide them with additional assistance to access other community-based services so that they would not need to move out of their current residence into other types of housing but to really to try to assist them in place.
In terms of 9 the 50 percent neighborhood benefits strategy, 10 Mr. Kromer, are we generally meeting those goals? 11 Is everyone cooperating with those goals that the 12 mayor demanded by executive order? 13
The neighborhood benefit 14 strategy is applied to all developers that are 15 receiving funding through the Community 16 Development Block Grant Program. And it is 17 related to a federal mandate, the Section 3 18 regulations of the Department of Housing and Urban 19 Development. 20 We find, and I believe reports are 21 submitted to Council that reflect these findings, 22 that there's a variation in the actual levels of 23 participation from one development venture to the 24 other. 25 In some cases, and I'm going to ask 76 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 Kevin Brooks to come forward with a couple of examples. In some cases, the goals are met or exceeded. The participation is quite high. In other instances, more needs to be done, and we're working to have more done. So the overall results of the program have improved since the issuance of the executive order. We have some excellent examples, but we also have more work that needs to be done in order to make the fullest use of the order and to comply fully with all of the local and federal regulations. I'd like to ask Kevin Brooks, the Director of Employment and Training for OHCD, just to cite a couple of examples of the application of that.
Good morning. My name is Kevin Brooks, and I'm the Assistant Director for Employment and Training in the Office of Housing and Community Development. I have some handouts that I'd like to give to the Council this morning that show both 77 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 housing and some economic development activity summaries for employment. Madam Chair, you mentioned a neighborhood benefit strategy, and what we have tried to do in the Office of Housing in the last year is to focus on the actual employment of residents, both locally and outside the Philadelphia area, to make a determination if in fact the goals of returning half of all the economic value is being accomplished. So that's what I have. Two of the major projects that are underway right now are commercial projects. The City Hall Annex Project and the Marriott Courtyard Project and the Loew's Hotel Project. Both of these are supervised by a number of City agencies, but my office is one of the principal offices responsible for tracking the employment. And I think you'll -- the numbers speak for themselves. And they're positive. These numbers will show that approximately a little more than 50 percent of the labor -- that's labor only -- is being performed by Philadelphia residents throughout the City. And we also have a 78 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 Councilmatic breakdown so that you'll be able to see by Council district where people from your neighborhood are in terms of employment. So let me have a second just to separate this out.
Thank you. If I asked you what the estimate number of employment and job training opportunities made available through OHCD, what that number is, could you give me an estimate?
I couldn't give it to you this morning because it's wrapped up in construction, maybe professional service opportunities. They may be -- excuse me. It may be new hires or existing employment. So the question of is it new jobs created or continued employment? So based on those factors, I'd have to come up with a number. I can do that but I just couldn't give it to you today. You'll be able to see directly the number of workers on these two hotel projects.
Yeah, we would look to know since we have job training programs, 79 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 if somebody says to us -- asks me what programs -- what jobs programs we fund or how many jobs do we generally fund under the CDBG plan, we would like to have some general idea.
We can provide that information in summary form on a single piece of paper so, you know, it will be clear.
Thank you, thank you. While you're looking for that, Kevin, let me ask Mr. Kromer. We know that Cecil B. Moore was designated as an Empowerment Zone, Home Ownership Zone, and a Neighborhood Revitalization Strategy Area. Are other areas so designated and can they be? And what benefits does that get having them also designated as a Home Ownership Zone? That's kind of new for me.
The Empowerment Zone and the Home Ownership Zone are both HUD-funded programs in which the funding was awarded to, in each case, a handful of cities following a national competition. There has only be one competition for Empowerment Zone funding, and only 80 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 one for Home Ownership funding, and Philadelphia was one of the cities that was fortunate enough to get both. In each case, the zone designation means that there's a substantial award of federal funding as well as a commitment of local funds to supplement that federal award. There has been some discussion of additional funding competitions for these programs, but none have happened as of yet.
You refer in the plan to welfare reform, but I don't know if you identify any specific strategies for this in terms of jobs.
The approach that is proposed in the Consolidated Plan is consistent with Mayor Rendell's position on welfare reform. And that position is not to use existing City resources to make up for funding gaps that emerge as a result of the implementation of welfare reform policies. And so there is no set-aside of OHCD funding that is proposed in this plan to compensate for welfare reform or to fund some of 81 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 the welfare reform activities that are currently being implemented through Greater Philadelphia Works and related programs. Instead, OHCD is proposing to continue the emphasis on supporting training programs such as those that were presented earlier that prepare neighborhood residents to be ready for private-sector jobs that are currently available in the local and regional economy, that pay substantially greater than minimum wage, and provide a living wage as well as benefits. And that is the approach that we propose to continue.
Thank you. Let me yield for questions from other members of the committee. Councilman Kenney, then Councilman Nutter.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. While I recognize after -- I think we've done seven or eight of these -- seven or eight of these plans over the course of years that I've been here. And while I recognize that a lot 82 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 of the dollars are restricted by the federal government when it comes to low or moderate income, perhaps the largest group of people that we're losing as a city are families that perhaps live in a row-house neighborhood now but are looking to purchase up and to either purchase a single or a twin. And the opportunities for those families to purchase those types of homes in Philadelphia, without paying exorbitant prices, are very, very rare. I look at neighborhoods like East Falls and other places where single houses are, and they're well out of their reach. Those homes, those single homes are simply out of the reach of the middle-class, working-class homeowner who's looking to purchase a newer and larger home. Those opportunities exist, say, in the price range of $130,000 to $170,000, which is not out of the realm of some working-class families. But their opportunities for those purchases are generally in southern New Jersey, in Delaware County, and in counties outside of Philadelphia. I haven't sensed at all a strategy in the time that I've been here to attempt to deal 83 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 with that problem by using what dollars are available that are not restricted by low- and moderate-income regulations and what our strategy is in general. You know, I expect that the Office of Housing and Community Development would have that particular problem in its purview, and the people who are sitting at this table have an interest in maintaining our middle class. What, if anything, has been done -- and probably not much -- but what can we do to attempt to compete with the Washington Townships and the Glensides and the neighborhoods that are draining our working-class families out on a monthly basis?
The resources that are available to address that issue are really two. One is the Home Ownership Zone Program, which is the first HUD funding that we've received during this administration that can be used to provide benefits to middle-class families, meaning families with incomes of up to 120 percent of the median.
Yeah, are you talking about the first-time homeowners stuff that 84 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 we're doing?
No. This is the construction of new houses in the Cecil B. Moore area. And people are moving into those houses now at 18th and Oxford and in that vicinity, who make 120 percent of the median income for the first time because of that flexibility.
Let me interrupt for a moment to welcome students, 2nd-graders from the George Clymer School. Welcome and thank you for coming. (Applause.)
There's an income table in Appendix 4 of the proposed Consolidated Plan. For a family of 4, 120 percent would amount to $66,700. For a family of 2, it's $53,400. The other resources available to address that issue has been the Economic Stimulus Program. And there have been three uses of that funding over the past four or five years: One is to develop the Philadelphia Interfaith Action Sales Housing at 46th and 85 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 Market, all funded by Stimulus funding, not income-restricted. The second is the Moderate Rehab Program to develop vacant properties for sales housing, and the biggest user of that has been Scott Mazzo (ph.) of Neighborhood Restorations in West Philadelphia, although other nonprofit groups have used that resource. And the third is the Come Home to Philadelphia Program, which PNC Bank administers, which has specifically targeted at to providing mortgage financing on favorable terms to families that are moving up. There are no income restrictions at all in the PNC program, which is open now.
Do we have numbers on how successful or not that these programs have been? And I guess my other question is, should we not be looking at the clearing of blighted land, the clearing of post-industrial land, and the construction of new single-family suburban-style homes that would have the amenities that our families are looking for when they decide to pull the plug on Philadelphia and to go -- and I 86 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 recognize we have school district problems and tax-rate problems and other things, but that's one of the bricks on the load of a family's decision to move out of the City into the suburbs. What are we doing or what can we do about the construction of new, moderately-priced, affordable homes that are the desire of our families who are moving into suburbs? I don't see any of those kinds of projects at all. I mean, row house -- we're talking about people who live in row houses now and who want to the move up to singles and twins. Is there anything that we're doing in that regard?
There are a few efforts under way to do that. They are all limited by the availability of funding to acquire and prepare sites. You're familiar, I'm sure, with the Jefferson Square proposal, which is intended to do that. The Association of Puerto Ricans on the March Puerto Ricans on the March is working with a suburban developer, Leon Weiner of Wilmington to produce new-sales housing that would not be income-restricted in eastern North Philadelphia. 87 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 Frankford Group Ministries is working with Britt Altman, a suburban developer, on something similar as well. The PIA experience shows that this approach can produce results. It takes time, though, to acquire and prepare and deal with community problems and move ahead. So I think this approach should be continued but I also think we should try to build on the success of consumer-oriented programs organizations like Come Home to Philadelphia, which enable a person to come in and get financing to buy a home anywhere he or she wishes. The success of the Penn program over a period of less than a year, a phenomenal impact on the sales-housing market in West Philadelphia I think shows that those kinds of incentives can work. And what I would like to see in the future is more of a linkage of consumer-oriented programs like that with City funding so that we can boost the real estate market in that as well.
And I guess what I would like to hear is some opinion from that side 88 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 of the table as far as the use of economic stimulus dollars and other types of dollars that have gone into larger construction projects, hospitality things, stuff that we're talking about with ballparks and other things, which we all need to do. But how do we start utilizing some of those dollars to continue to contain the loss of the people that we've been talking about in the last few minutes?
Councilman, I'll answer that by noting that every time we talk about -- every time in the Administration we talk about new stimulus allocations or what should continue, housing remains one of the three general areas that we talk about and for the exact reason that John just mentioned, that we realize that the stimulus dollars are basically the only source where we have the flexibility to get around the guidelines of the block grant. And every year, that is an important component of the Stimulus Program. And we'll also note that we also believe fundamentally that employment 89 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 opportunities and an improvement in the growth of the business infrastructure all helps hand in hand with the residential decision-making of citizens, not only Philadelphia citizens, but potential Philadelphia citizens.
Well, the stories, I guess, from the people that I've talked to who no longer live in the City is the issue of the affordability of the house that they're looking for. A house in Philadelphia that provides a garage or two, a little bit of land, a little bit of ground to mow, and in a cul-de-sac setting of some kind, in Philadelphia, it's going to cost you about $300,000; while in Washington Township, it will cost you anywhere from $130,000 to $200,000. We don't have those $130,000 to $200,000 houses within the boundaries of Philadelphia, and we wind up kind of forcing the hand of these people who perhaps would stay given the opportunities of choice but find it impossible because of the inability to find a such house for their purchase in their price range.
In the next hour, we'll have a couple of examples of Come Home to 90 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 Philadelphia to show you how this is beginning to happen, and I agree that something needs to be done.
When I first came to city government, I worked for Thomas Henry Masarro (ph.), who was then the head of Housing and Community Development. One of the things that he said, because I lived and came from Wynnefield, was -- we looked through the book to see if there was an allocation for Wynnefield. And one of the things he said was, he snickered -- and he's a good friend of mine, so I'm not talking out of school, but he said that the in Wynnefield are just going to have to tighten their Gucci belts. And continually, because of the income levels that folk in that neighborhood are on, they suffer --
Excuse me, Mr. Jones, would you identify yourself for the stenographer.
I'm sorry, Curtis Jones, President, Philadelphia Commercial Development Corporation, formerly with OHCD a million years ago. 91 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 And what happened was, that kind of policy has kind of been replicated over the years, giving the greatest resources to the communities in the most need, which makes sense. But one of things that I've been able to take a look at is what Washington, D.C. is doing because they're in a similar situation where the property values in the inner city are rising and escalating beyond the indigenous resident's ability to keep up with. And one of the things that they've done there is combine a kind of office of neighborhood community development, which is dealing with your big developers, but also giving them certain incentives to create blended-income developments, which would bring people from different stratas in a neighborhood together based on some subsidies provided to the developer to bring down the price for those people in the middle income and lower income area. So what you get is more of a blended New York style community where you have people from different income stratas in the same couple of blocks. And that's one thing that I think we might do well to examine. 92 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326
Thank you. Let me just note for the record, as a resident of Wynnefield, I do not have a Gucci belt as an -- (Laughter.)
Today I'm wearing a Docker's belt, which I just purchased on Saturday. Mr. Brooks, I had not planned to ask you questions at this time, but given the information that you handed out, I'd like to ask you some questions and then I actually wanted to use this round to have some discussion with Mr. Mullin. Mr. Brooks, you handed out these charts. One is Office of Housing and Community Development City Hall Annex Project, January '99, and the other is the Loew's at PSFS, January of '99. Are those your charts?
Yeah. You should also have April, which is -- there's two sets. I 93 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 wanted to give you two sets for two projects -- April and January of 1999 for those two projects.
All right, I just have January, but we can discuss the January of 1999. First, Mr. Brooks, do you know what the unemployment rate is in Philadelphia?
No, I don't. Overall unemployment, no. I guess the national average is approaching 5 or 6 percent.
Okay. But you don't know what the unemployment rate is in Philadelphia.
Okay. Well, maybe you can explain to me -- I'll use your April '99 chart since that's the most current information.
No, for the Loew's project. That's showing the number of workers at 729. It shows the total Philadelphia residents at 401, which is 55 percent.
But I find it 94 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 interesting that there are 163 people who worked on this project who are from the Philadelphia suburbs, 147 from New Jersey, from Delaware, 4 5 from New York, and 2 from Florida. 6 Now, can you tell me why we would have 7 328 people from outside of the City of 8 Philadelphia who are supporting this particular 9 project, who fund this project based on our 10 population and our poverty rate? I assume there 11 are OHCD funds in these projects? 12
And they're a function of population, poverty for people in Philadelphia, correct?
So can you tell me why 45 percent of the people who worked on this project, 328 of them, are from outside of Philadelphia.
Yeah. Part of the answer is the mix of the construction trades in general, 95 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 that based on the availability of these trades, approximately 45 percent of that labor currently lives outside of Philadelphia. It may not mean that these folks did not at one time live in Philadelphia, but they're currently living outside of Philadelphia, and that's the reality. I wanted to present the reality of the distribution of labor as accurately as possible. This is the first time that my office, we tried to accurately sort out where the labor is coming from, and this is our honest attempt to present that to you. More than half of the laborers in Philadelphia, a little less than half of it from the south side of Philadelphia. Our job is to try to increase the number of residents inside of Philadelphia. We try to do that by expanding the pool of trade -- of skilled trades persons in Philadelphia through supporting the apprenticeship training programs. Congreso de Latinos has an apprenticeship training program, and we try to place the graduates of that training program on construction projects like the City Hall Annex project.
Well, what 96 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 incentive would a person or a company possibly have even utilizing the programs that you're laying out if people are able to exit the city -- you just engaged in a discussion with Councilman Kenney about that -- and continue to work on these projects? And close to half of the people live outside the city on whom they're depending to get the project dollars in the first place.
Yeah. Councilman, I've just been trying to present to you the distribution of labor. The questions of --
I understand that, and I'm not complaining to you about the provision of information, I appreciate it. It does nothing more than back up what many of us have historically known for most of our lives.
I'm just glad that you have it now in a form that we can actually see it and have a discussion about it. (Applause.)
Still doesn't answer the question that we continue to pour money into projects. We'd like to have the projects, 97 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 I'm not complaining about the Loew's Hotel project, I'm not complaining about the City Hall Annex project. I aired those issues at the appropriate time. What I am now complaining about is people are working on these projects who do not live in Philadelphia. Now, I understand you might not be able to get 100 percent or sometimes 90 percent but you are now getting in the realm of 50/50. And I do not understand that, given the unemployment rate, which, you stated for the record, you do not know. (Applause.)
Councilman, the federal government does not require, and we cannot require, any certain percentage or quota of Philadelphia resident hiring. What we can do is try to enforce the Section 3 regulations. And I agree with you, it's good that we have this information. We need more of it.
Mr. Kromer, we can enforce whatever it is we want to enforce. I believe that it is still our money, correct? We enforce a lot of things around here that we may 98 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 not have the legal authority to enforce. But when we tell people that we want things to be in a certain way, somehow magically, they figure out a way to be in compliance because they want the money, and they want to do the project. And all I'm saying is, if we're going to put money in projects on the backs of people who are in poverty in Philadelphia, for which the rate is guaranteed, then we need to figure out a way that Philadelphians can do the work. This is the constant complaint -- not only in our neighborhood, but also in downtown. It is now documented by Mr. Brooks here what people have been saying for 10, 15, years, 16 that they go to project sites and see license 17 plates from a whole host of places outside of 18 Pennsylvania. And not only are they outside of 19 Pennsylvania, some of them are not even in the 20 same almost time zone. You have to fly to some of these places or take a train. Now, explain to me why two people from Florida are working on this job or in New York? In the other one, we've got folks Maryland, New Jersey, Delaware, New York again. Why does this 99 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 happen? Is there no one in Philly that wants to work on these jobs?
The only way to address that priority is by enforcing the executive order, which this example shows has been done, and by supporting the kinds of apprenticeship programs and training programs that make people ready for these jobs.
Well, you don't figure enforcement of executive order the fact that you've met the 50 percent threshold and then that's the end of the discussion, do you?
Could I also respond? I can't underscore how important having the data 100 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 first to present the problem, but secondarily, training programs are so important.
Mr. Brooks, you didn't need this data to know the answer to these questions. You've known about this -- and I'm not talking about you individually, it's you collectively. People have known about this for years. This didn't come as a sudden revelation to you, did it?
Not at all. But in response to this data, it's all the more important that we support training programs that expand the pool of skilled labor in Philadelphia. If we say that we need carpenters and apprentices from Philadelphia and we're not getting them -- and you can see on the summary of trades by distribution. If we're not getting them, then one of the things we have to do is to emphasize the need to have training programs for these people so that you can get 'em from Philadelphia.
Didn't we emphasize 101 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 it last year?
What was the result? How many new people came on in any of those apprenticeship programs last year to this year?
Thirty people graduated out of the Congreso de Latinos apprenticeship training program. I don't know the placement on these hotel projects, but all of those people have been placed in construction fields in Philadelphia and surrounding counties. And it's a modest number, but that's one way you attack it, Councilman.
I understand that, I appreciate the answer but it is irrelevant to the point that I am raising. What I am trying to figure out is, what are you trying to do, presently and going forward, to make sure that more people -- we have a lot of projects that are about to come on line. Bill Hankowsky, how many projects we 102 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 got coming on line in the next couple of years? What have you got, TIFs? And more coming?
So there's a lot of 6 work that's going to happen over the next couple 7 of years. 8 Now, what are you guys going to do 9 about these kinds of figures when we have people 10 every day in every neighborhood standing on the 11 corner, looking around, looking at each other, or 12 looking to see what they're going to do to 13 somebody next, and we got close to half of the 14 people who are working on the big production jobs in the city that don't work here?
The only way to assure that is by sitting down with the developers and the builders and the building trades and establishing goals.
Could we have some quiet over on the side, please. I'm trying to get an answer.
And sitting down with the parties on each of these ventures and establishing goals that we insist on being enforced. And I 103 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 would being delighted to include you or other representatives of City Council.
Have we ever stopped the construction work on a project for noncompliance?
That wasn't an answer to my question. Have we ever stopped a contract for noncompliance?
Not on commercial projects, but on housing projects, we have. And I think with this information, I think Mr. Kromer's comments are right on point. Before we approve any deal, we negotiate these kinds of employment goals that are outlined here to say we need to do a better job in these areas. And if they become a part of the agreement, then we can stop the funding, we don't sign off on the deal at all. 104 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 And it's a matter of the oversight agencies to make sure that it gets done. It's our job to make sure that those goals are achieved. That's how it's done.
I will always appreciate the effort to bring someone in compliance. What I'm more interested in, rather than stopping project, is making sure that there are people available to do the work. The question is, what are you going to do about that?
Well, we'll -- the first thing you do is, you try to make sure you've got the labor that can do the work. So if you surveyed the entire pool of people in Philadelphia and we know there are X-number of carpenters, X-number of electricians, X-number of plumbers who can work and we get the support of the unions to make them available, then we can successfully achieve any goals we --
Well, it's going to be pretty -- quite honestly, it's going to be 105 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 difficult because right now, there's an awful lot of construction underway. And so a lot of people are --
And there are a lot of people working, so there is the reality that there may not be --
No, there are so many people working and there are so many projects going on, that we have to go get people from the Philadelphia suburbs, New Jersey, Delaware, New York, Maryland, and Florida to fill spaces while we've got people right now -- many places in my district, Councilwoman Verna, Tasco, Blackwell, and anybody else around here, you can go out to any one of our districts right now -- I'll give you five locations, and there are a bunch of guys standing around doing nothing. That's the issue. Now, maybe they weren't thinking about being a carpenter today.
Maybe if they knew there was an opportunity, they would. 106 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 The question is, what are you going to do about it when you know that we have so much work going on that we can't find people in our own city to do the work and we've got to go out and hire people from other places.
Well, one thing we can do is do a better job of outreaching to the neighborhoods about employment opportunities before they start. And we can work through neighborhoods-based organizations to let them know well in advance about opportunities, identifying the most qualified people to take advantage of those opportunities. And then what we will do is to make sure that they work. If they're qualified, they're local, it's our intent to make them employable. And that's what we do. That's one way to do it, Councilman, is early notice to the neighborhoods about the opportunities, ask them to identify people who qualify, are looking for employment, those people referred to the appropriate agencies for consideration of employment when work starts -- before the work starts to have them interviewed for employment. 107 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326
Mr. Brooks, I'm going to yield to Councilwoman Tasco. Let me tell you that I appreciate your attempt to try to respond to what I've asked you about here today. Let me say for the record that it's not disrespecting. Your answer is inadequate, and I would suggest that go back to the shop, deal with the other folks who are at the table and some other people who are in this room, and come back to us with a game plan that actually makes some sense about what we're doing going forward. (Applause.)
Unfortunately, unfortunately, some of the commitments or promises that you may make today may in fact expire in about seven months. So I want to know that we have an actual plan going forward that this Council has an opportunity to take a look at to deal with 15, 16, 17-some-odd projects, most of which are large that have also come through this Council. And more than likely, based on the answers that you've given here today, we're going to see the same kind 108 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 of reports, and I appreciate the reports, you know how much I love information. But all you've done is document what many of us have been talking about, at least for me since the time I got here for some of my colleagues for many years ahead of time. This is a disgrace. (Applause.)
Thank you very much. Follow-up question, Councilwoman Tasco?
Thank you very much. I was looking at these charts when we first received them. Why is the performance -- they're both terrible and appalling. But why is the performance a little better on the City Hall Annex project as opposed to the Loew's project?
Councilwoman, I would say that the City Hall Annex has been underway a little bit longer.
It's been underway a little longer, so they've been working longer on that project. Loew's is maybe a month or two starting later.
I'm sorry, Councilwoman, can I interrupt you for one second. If you look at the April of '95 numbers, because I did notice that on the January '99 numbers, there was a distinct difference between the two projects. If you look at the April '99 numbers for Loew's, its total Philadelphia residents, 55 percent. For City Hall Annex, it's 54 percent. And for Loew's, it's total outside Philadelphia, 45 percent. And for City Hall Annex, it's 46 percent. They are now, as of April '99, essentially the same.
You are in charge of the Office of Employment and Training. Who is your enforcement officer to oversee these projects?
I wear that hat as well. There's no -- I do both the outreach and the 110 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 planning initially and am also charged with working on the enforcement of the plans that are developed for the projects.
Wasn't Handford Jones a part of your office? What happened to him?
He was detailed to our office to help with the oversight of the construction projects, and he was on a leave of absence. And his leave of absence expired so he had to return to the Minority Business Enterprises Council.
Well, he seemed to be fairly effective when he was in your department but he didn't seem to get too much cooperation when he wanted to shut down some of the projects because of noncompliance. Why was that?
Well, I thought we worked really, really effectively during the year that he was in the Office of Housing, so I --
I never met a more frustrated person than Handford Jones. And this has nothing to do with him, but just in my dealing with him in terms of trying the get the attention 111 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 of everybody about the lack of participation on these projects of minorities and women, total frustration. And you saw that when we had the discussion around the Kvaerner issue.
There are two or three training programs targeted for construction. There's also the Top Win, a trades women for women, so that's the second one that I know of. So it's Congreso and Top Win are the two training programs targeted for construction in the city in addition to, the trade unions have apprenticeship programs as well.
So I look at a number of the trades where there are -- there's just absolute participation of zero. What do you do to interact with those trades to see if they have apprenticeship programs, if they have women and minority members and how do they intend to comply?
It requires sitting down 112 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 and talking to all three trade unions where there are zeroes and saying that we need to increase their number that they're -- that's how you start, by sitting down and talking to them and saying there's no apprenticeships in this training program.
What kind of reaction do you get? What's their response?
Well, initially very cooperative. They're willing to consider individuals doing the openings of --
Were you given any timetables as to when you'd like to have minorities and women to be made part of their apprenticeship program?
They have standard apprenticeship training scheduled openings. We'll refer individuals during those standard training program openings. In addition, we ask for special training tests throughout the year for some specific trades, and they have been accommodating for those specific testing requests that we've made in the past. It normally happens through local community-based organizations as opposed to 113 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 a city agency like mine.
Do you try to encourage the development of more training programs around the building trades with all this new work coming up around the construction industry?
We have tried diligently to expand the number of opportunities for residents in some of the key trades where -- there's an awful lot of work in electrical, HVAC, plumbing. Those are some of the major trade areas and so that's where we try to focus our activity on. On some of the other trades, we have not because of, I guess, the total number of hours for those other trades. But in the primary trade areas of electricians, plumbers, HVAC, we have targeted, and I think we have -- you'll notice some of the apprenticeship training programs are bearing some fruit because we have carpenter apprentices now and we have electrical apprentices now. And so there has been improvement in that area.
Mr. Hankowsky, 114 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 when we had this discussion before around minority participation, do I understand that we were to make part of the contract now a goals and timetables or something of the contract when we had our last discussion around minority participation and these new TIFs?
Yes. I should probably start by introducing myself. Bill Hankowsky, President of PIDC. Councilwoman, as Mr. Brooks said, there is -- projects do submit an economic opportunity plan that lays out on the workforce side and on the -- generally on the construction subcontracting side participation. And those are -- the two that are in front of you are examples of that, and there are other projects where those are also in place. The workforce issue that's before you is a problem that I think you have correctly, in the questions you were just asking, identified one of the tensions in this. These are also what are generally known as Davis Bacon projects, which tends to mean that they are bid by union contractors. So you have union jobs which then 115 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 puts the contractors and developers in a situation where they're seeking to meet these goals within the confines of a defined labor pool. And the questions by both yourself and Councilman Nutter with regard to the need to really create an avenue to get more people in that labor pool to reflect the diverse background of the city, I think, is the critical linchpin. Because, otherwise, you see the phenomenon which you're seeing, which is the fact that the union card-carrying members are then recruited from outside the metropolitan area when the work happens, and we are in that phenomenon today, whether we assist the projects are not. The region on the whole is in a high construction mode. And that's the problem you're seeing.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have other questions but not on this issue so I'll wait.
Thank you very much. 116 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 The trades that have been the most successful in changing the complexion and gender of their apprentice programs and in their journeyman programs, in your opinion, has been which trades? I see higher numbers obviously on these two particular projects. And I guess part of the question is they've come from -- some of them have come a long way, some of them haven't come even anywhere near where should but some of them have come a long way. And the question I'm asking is, what has made those programs successful in recreating more minority and more female, more diverse ethnic backgrounds than some of the others have?
I would say that the carpenters union has been really aggressive in both adopting the approach of local-resident employment, so they really have reached out and tried to understand the policy of local employment first of all, and then work with community groups across the board to get more people in the pipeline, help them get pre-apprenticeship training so they test well and are successful in becoming union members. And that would be one 117 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 example. I think the electrical union has also made strides there.
Is there some way that we could try to outline for these other unions the exact steps that these two unions -- the electricians and the carpenters -- have taken to improve their minority and female component and to perhaps not impose -- or maybe impose those kinds of requirements on those other trades that aren't -- that are lagging behind in their efforts, that maybe sound as if they want to be cooperative, but in reality, you know, wind up not being successful in what they say they're going to do.
Yeah. I think that's a worthwhile goal to have, and we can share with those other unions where there are other opportunities coming up some of the successful strategies that the carpenters and electricians have employed.
And I guess the other question I have on the component, the breakdown of the demographics. Of the 45 percent 118 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 or so that are outside the city, what would be the average on the two projects for outside employment, 45, 47 percent?
Do we know what the racial demographics of that group are?
Not precisely, but I would call your attention to a summary of employment participation for the City Hall Annex project with the report of April 1999. And you can see that overall, 3 percent of all the labor across trades were employed by females, so females represent 3 percent of all labor by race and sex. So it's 3 percent for females, 20 percent of all the labor by hour performed by African-American male, 3 percent by Hispanic male, and 74 percent by white male.
Do we know whether they're city residents or they're not city residents?
I would suspect, just from my experience, that the majority of the 45 percent who live outside of the city are 119 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 probably white males.
Who probably at some point lived in the city. I would venture to guess that a portion of them, I guess, going back to my initial question to Mr. Kromer about housing opportunities in the city for people in that income level, a lot of those guys were probably city residents at one time and then have moved out into New Jersey and to the surrounding counties.
Yeah. You see that the distribution in the Philadelphia suburban areas and in the New Jersey area is pretty high.
Right. But I would be interested in knowing what percentage, if any, are minority or female that are ranked in the New Jersey or suburban group, just for my own interest, and see also what kind of demographic moving trends we have amongst construction trade minority members who may also be moving out of the city. So I'd like to know what that group is. And, again, go back to reiterate that the successful building trade unions that have been improving their situation vis-a-vis their 120 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 diversity, I think, needs to be matched by the other unions that are lagging behind and perhaps even forced to do so if, in fact, they are not being successful, to employ these kinds of apprenticeship training programs in their particular locals to get their minority components up to where they should be.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Brooks, I had planned to ask additional questions about this subgroup of people as well, and I'd like to expand the request that was made by Councilman Kenney. What I would like to know is, the City Hall Annex project and the Loew's Hotel project, for instance, in the City Hall Annex chart, you're showing 160 people in the Philadelphia suburban area. I would like a breakdown of that 160 people to tell me what their race and gender are and what trade they happen to be in. And I'd like that information for each of 121 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 the additional categories -- New Jersey, Delaware, New York, and Maryland for the City Hall Annex project; and the same for the Philadelphia suburban areas -- New Jersey, Delaware, New York, and Florida for the Loew's Hotel project. Now, you'll be able to tell us that information, right?
That's what I thought. Secondly, Madam Chair, I would ask through your chairpersonship, I would like to make a formal request that a representative from the Law Department be requested to come to this public hearing. I'd like to have some discussion about this particular issue with a member of the Law Department on the record. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll make that request. Are there any other questions?
Certainly, 122 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 Madam President.
You know, we think very highly about the Youth Build. Once the students graduate from Youth Build, do they automatically come under any particular group?
No. The Youth Build graduates, as the Youth Build representatives will explain, take different directions. Some of them go to Community College or go onto additional training. Others do go into construction trades, and there has been some linkage with apprenticeship programs in Youth Build graduates. But that's the kind of activity that I think we need to continue to support so that we can continue to build the apprenticeship base.
Thank you. Are there any other questions? (No further questions.)
Certainly we thank Mr. Kromer. We know that he will be around, 123 6/1/99 FINANCE - Res. 990326 as will some of you, to respond to --