civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - August 21, 2024

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Aug 21, 20246h 4m

And number 13, MI 2024-003-727-535-Rawne Street, that case has been continued.

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Is there any other requests for continuances?

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I see wrong.

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Okay.

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So, number five, MI 2024, 001-872-260 Geiger Road.

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This is the second listing.

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We do not have any exhibits.

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Justin Crick is the attorney.

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Mr. Crick?

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All right, no hands up.

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Okay. So MI 2024-001-872.

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Excuse me, Mr. Chair. It's my understanding that Mr. Crick intended to request a continuance in this matter.

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Okay.

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But I assumed from his email that he was going to be present, but I do not see him in the audience today.

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Thank you. So MI 2024-001-872-260 Geiger Road. Cases continued. Mark must be heard.

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We're going to go to our list.

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MI 2024 001 795 4999 Linden Avenue.

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John Griffin is the attorney.

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There's a letter of opposition from the East Tarsdale Civic Association.

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mr griffin

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here there's a hand

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i don't see

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do we see mr griffin's hand i don't see john griffin there are two hands up the first one

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it would be Mark Morrison. I'm not sure if he's

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holding him. Mr. Griffin's

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in the audience. I think

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yep, there he goes. He's just raised his hand.

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Can you hear me?

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I can, Mr. Griffin. Yes, sir.

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Could you please state your name and spell

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for the court's sonography?

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Yes, John Griffin

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G-R-I-F-F-I-N

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Do you swear

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or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing

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but the truth, Mr. Griffin?

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I do, sir.

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Could you please turn on your screen?

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I thought I did that, but I guess I did not.

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Did he go out and come back?

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He's coming back.

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I'm, uh, I'm okay.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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You

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Chairman, can you see me?

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We cannot.

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Okay.

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May I begin?

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We need to see you.

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And then we need to see your documents too.

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Okay.

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Thank you, Mr. Griffin.

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Can you see me?

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We see you now.

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Number one, could you identify your client?

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Sure. My client is forty nine nine nine Linden Avenue.

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And our vice chair has a few questions for you. Yes.

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Good afternoon, counsel. Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate to its adversity?

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Yes, sir. Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?

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I did not do it five days in advance. I believe we did it on Monday morning, and there were some questions back about some additional exhibits to submit, and we have complied with that request.

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Thank you. I believe we received everything. Please proceed and share your screen.

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Mr. Griffin, just for a point, I did mention we have a letter of opposition from East Archdale Civic, okay?

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Yes.

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Please proceed.

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Chairman, can you see my screen?

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We see you.

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We need to see your documents now.

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You've got to share your documents with us.

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Okay.

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Let me go back and do that.

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I think you have to bring your documents up,

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and then you hit share screen.

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You're coming up now.

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Okay.

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Can you can you see that, sir? We see there's a letter to me. I'm not sure.

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These are my documents all in order. Right. OK. So, chairman, this is a request for a zoning variance.

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In essence, it is the seeking of a use permit for retail live poultry butcher shop that's at the property.

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Of note, this would be the third such business for my client.

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This board, not exactly these members, but this board had previously unanimously approved this type of business on two separate occasions at different locations.

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One of them being in 2007, one being in 2018. These businesses are currently, as we speak, still in operation.

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The retail live business, poultry business, I know that sounds like a handful, is a popular business, particularly with the Asian community.

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uh so in essence as i explained in my letter the uh poultry primarily chickens ducks turkeys

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are imported live three to four times a week and they come from a fairly well-known business

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called Walk-in Supply, which comes out of Brooklyn, New York. This type of a business

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is highly, and I emphasize the word, highly regulated by both the Philadelphia City Health

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Department and notably the Federal Health Department. I can tell you from representing

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these businesses previously, the level of scrutiny and mandatory compliance

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by the feds is fairly remarkable. They are on top of this. So this, again, is a highly

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regulated business. Interesting. The classification is RSA three, but there is a long history

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of commercial usage. In essence, this business for the last, I'm going to believe seven or eight

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years was a sort of a bait and tackle business and had been in the neighborhood and had been

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a staple of the neighborhood for a long time. The hours of operation would be 8 to 5 p.m.

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The hours of operation would be 8 to 5 p.m.

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I explain in my letter a sort of like a menu as to what would be supplied.

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There would be special freezers that are installed to eliminate any possibility of smells or lingering smells.

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um we have a contract with republic services uh every single day trash is picked up at the end

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of the day there is not a situation where trash lingers for days out which which frankly is

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critical to a business like this we have seven parking spaces out front we have call-in options

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The entire process, if you walked in from start to finish, would essentially be probably 15 to 20 minutes.

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So, Mr. Chairman, I want to say something, and then I want to be as candid with the board as I can.

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This is an entirely legal business.

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These businesses exist in certain parts of the city.

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And as I mentioned, this board, maybe not this composition of board, had previously approved two such businesses.

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Now, with that said, the elephant in the room is that we had met with this RCO on two previous occasions.

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There is no opposition, I think I can fairly say, to the use of this business for commercial purposes.

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There is no opposition from the surrounding neighbors, including the next door neighbor who was present at the RCO meetings.

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There is, however, to be fair, there is, however, a group of people that expressed opposition to this, not because of its legality or illegality, but because it's a business that some members of this community simply did not want in their community.

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And the analogy that comes to mind from prior representations is the fact that there are times where there may be a perfectly legal tattoo business that opens in the area and there are a block of residents that just don't want a tattoo business.

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This is a fairly unique niche business. And again, giving all due deference to the RCO, who, like I said, we met with twice. There are members of this RCO, and they treated us with great respect.

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there are members of the RCO in the community that simply just don't want this kind of a business

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in the community. But again, this is an entirely legal business, one that's been approved on at

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least two other occasions by the ZBA board in Philadelphia. And I believe that is the only

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glitch that i that i do believe exists so so let me let me go back a minute because

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your earlier testimony you said you had seven parking places but don't you have a refusal for

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parking we we do and i think we're addressing that okay because right now they're saying you

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have zero proposed and you said you had seven we we have seven and and i and i think we can

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sort of show that but we we would have seven parking spaces uh available that would be right

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in front of the building understand the the building currently is vacant and there there

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is a pending sale from the owner to my client i understand emphasis on the word pending

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dependent upon this board's decision.

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Okay.

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You have photos of the front of the building?

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I do, I believe.

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So we've gone through the refusal.

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There is the front of the building,

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or actually that may be the side of the building.

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As you can see, there is plenty of space.

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As you can see, there is plenty of space.

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I'll put it right in this area if you can see me doing that.

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If I use this photo right in this, which allows for seven individual parking spots right there.

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This building, which used to be a bait and tackle business, is essentially the same business, but now vacant.

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My understanding is that the gentleman that owned this business passed away.

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His wife and family were present at the RCO meetings and expressed full support for this business.

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There are other views.

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That is the back of the business.

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These are a down-the-street view of the business. If we circle right in front of that area, that's where the seven parking spaces would be, as we indicate.

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Uh, these are the site plans that we had done. If you take a look at these site plans, we outline the seven parking spaces. Uh, these are located right in front of the building where we just sort of, uh, uh, just sort of went through.

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These are, and we only use these for reference, these are photos of the two other businesses that the board had previously approved in 07 and 2018.

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Uh, here is the trash removal contract with Republic services.

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Um, again, this is, uh, uh, an every day removal.

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This isn't Monday, Wednesday, and Fridays, and then perhaps we get a long weekend.

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So, uh, the, the, the bottom line, I guess is the easiest thing to say.

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And I'm sort of giving kudos to my clients that they they have been there, done that.

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This isn't a first foray into the business.

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They they know how these businesses work.

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And candidly, they they have been successful in these businesses.

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The last thing here is the agreement of sale.

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Hillary had some questions on this that I believe we clarified last night and this morning.

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The sale has not taken place.

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It is largely, if not totally, contingent upon the board's decision as to whether or not to grant a variance.

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Our clients don't run any other businesses.

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So if this didn't work, maybe we could turn it into a bakery. That's not the case. This is their business. This is how they make a living with their business mantra.

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We represent in this matter, we represent the buyer in this agreement. We are not counsel for the buyer or the seller, but I can just give you an update on it with regard to that.

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So my I guess in closing, Mr. Chairman, as I said, the only issue that I respectfully believe is an issue is that they're they're due.

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There exists members. They are not next door neighbors, but respectfully, they are members of the East Tarsdale community that just don't want this kind of a business in their community.

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It doesn't doesn't speak to the legality. It doesn't speak to dotting every I and crossing every T.

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But but it does speak to a preference. And again, candidly, I said this the other day to a colleague of mine.

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I might be a little bit easier if we were opening a bakery and giving out cupcakes to preschool children.

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But but that's not what this is. This is a business that.

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But that's not what this is. This is a business that concerns some people that I think we've done everything to address. And again, by history, the board has shown, as long as we dotted our I's and crossed our T's, that it would approve. And it has previously.

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You bring your client on and adopt your testimony.

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Sure.

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Giaje, are you there, please?

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Okay, they have been allowed to speak.

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Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Hi, can you hear me?

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Yes.

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Okay, my last name is J-I-A-N-G.

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And you can call me Giaje.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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Yes.

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And you're the individuals in the process of trying to buy this property.

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Is that correct?

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That is correct, yes.

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Okay, please proceed, counsel.

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Giaje, just let me ask you just a few questions before I get to the ultimate questions.

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I've represented that this property has not yet gone to settlement.

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Is that correct?

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It has not yet. The settlement is contingent on if we pass the variance from the board.

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Okay. I just wanted to make sure I was representing that to the board

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accurately. So my questions are, were you on this link when I was making this presentation?

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We were. Yes, we were.

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Okay. Did you understand everything that I presented?

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Yes.

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Did I make this presentation accurately, consistent with our conversations in preparation for this Zoom hearing?

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Yes.

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If I was to ask you, do you adopt what I said and my testimony as if it was your own?

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And do you affirm that it was accurate as if you made these statements?

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Yes.

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I have no further questions.

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Questions from the board.

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I have a question.

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Just in terms of impact, is there a demand for this business in that particular area or a shortage of businesses like that in that particular area?

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And where do you anticipate your customer base coming from?

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Giaje, can you please answer that?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So as Jake has mentioned during his presentation, we had owned and operated two separate businesses in the past.

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And the demand is there.

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The demand is huge.

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