COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE ON RULES3 Room 400, City Hall6 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, November 29, 20107 10:15 a.m. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN JAMES KENNEY10 COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO11 COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN WILLIAM K. GREENLEE12 COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER13 COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL14 COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL BILLS 100552, 100656, 100678, 100709, 100720,17 100721, 100750, 100761, 100773 - - -20 2
Ladies and2 gentlemen, may I please have your3 attention. Good morning.4 Good morning. We have a quorum5 of the Rules Committee to discuss -- to6 conduct business today with7 Councilmembers Miller, Goode, myself,8 Councilman Kenney, who is chairing,9 Councilman Greenlee and Councilman10 DiCicco.11 We would ask everyone, please12 take a seat. We have a requirement that13 everyone be seated. There's plenty of14 room. There's plenty of chairs. Thank15 you very much.16 The first bill is Bill No.17 100721, which is an ordinance amending18 Title 14 of The Philadelphia Code,19 entitled "Zoning and Planning," by20 amending Chapter 14-1600, entitled21 "Miscellaneous," by adding a new Section22 establishing the Fox Chase Environmental23 Control District, all under certain terms24 and conditions.25 3 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 (Witness approached witness2 table.)3
Mr. Kramer,4 please identify yourself for the record.5
Good morning,6 Councilman Kenney and members of the7 Rules Committee. I am William Kramer,8 Division Director of the Development9 Planning Division of the Philadelphia10 City Planning Commission. I am here11 today to testify on Bill No. 100721,12 which was introduced by Councilmember13 O'Neill October 28th, 2010.14 Bill No. 100721 amends the15 Philadelphia Zoning Code by adding a new16 Section establishing Fox Chase17 Environmental Control District.18 Bill No. 100721 affects the19 property known generally as Fox Chase20 Farms, which is a 34.8 acre farm located21 along Pine Road, the Pennypack Creek and22 the Philadelphia County border. The23 property is currently zoned "REC"24 Recreational and is not being changed by25 4 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 this legislation. This farm is used as2 an educational farm not generally open to3 the public, with the exception of4 periodic special events. The5 Philadelphia School District and the6 Fairmount Park Commission cooperatively7 operate Fox Chase Farm as an agricultural8 education facility. Programs include an9 active 4H Club and many visits by school10 children throughout the region.11 Bill No. 100721 creates a new12 Section establishing the Fox Chase13 Environmental Control District. The14 District encompasses the Fox Chase Farm15 and will limit the uses to permit an16 educational farm, agricultural activities17 for educational purposes, educational18 programs relating to horticulture,19 agriculture, environmental and historical20 studies, and programs coordinated by the21 School District of Philadelphia or the22 Department of Parks and Recreation.23 The Philadelphia Department of24 Parks and Recreation currently has no25 5 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 interest in placing commercial farming at2 this location or in changing the ongoing3 programs. The farm is City owned and4 operated, with the assistance of the5 Friends of Fox Chase Farms. Fox Chase6 Farms is one of the last working farms in7 any major city and has produced8 agriculture for over 300 years. The9 majority of the farm is actually located10 in Montgomery County. Accordingly, this11 legislation only covers a small portion12 of the farm.13 The current zoning of the14 property of "REC" Recreation does not15 permit commercial farming or any other16 commercial activity as a matter of right.17 This bill creates a zoning overlay to18 restrict a use at the property which is19 already not permitted under the current20 Code provisions. Accordingly, the21 provisions of this legislation are22 considered redundant and provide no23 additional protection for the Fox Chase24 Farm.25 6 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 The Philadelphia City Planning2 Commission considered Bill No. 100721 at3 its meeting of November 16th, 2010.4 After consideration, the Commission5 recommended that Bill No. 100721 be6 disapproved.7 This concludes my testimony. I8 appreciate the opportunity to appear9 before you today and would be pleased to10 answer any questions you may have.11
Thank you12 very much.13 Is there anyone here from the14 Parks and Recreation Department?15 (No response.)16
There's17 supposed to be written testimony. Is18 there anyone to testify from Parks and19 Rec?20 (No response.)21
Seeing22 none, additionally my understanding is23 the School District -- does the School24 District have an interest -- an25 7 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 interested party in this bill?2 (No response.)3
Is anyone4 from the School District here?5 (No response.)6
Thank you.7 The next folks on the list are8 Fred Maurer -- I'm sorry. Councilman9 Greenlee, please.10
Thank11 you, Mr. Chairman.12 Just real quickly, Mr. Kramer.13 This sounds fairly similar to -- I mean14 in scope to a bill we did a couple weeks15 ago in Roxborough.16
And I18 guess my question is the same as it was19 then. If you can't do it now, if this20 bill -- Councilman O'Neill is proposing21 to put these restrictions on, I guess,22 just to kind of make it clear where the23 community is coming from. I guess like24 it sounds like what's the harm in that,25 8 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 then. I mean, you say it's redundant.2 Maybe it is, but what's the harm in that?3 You know what I'm saying?4
I don't know that5 I would term it as "harm." I think from6 a Code perspective as someone who writes7 and reads and deals with Code, it adds a8 lot of unnecessary language to the Code,9 which makes it unnecessarily complicated.10 The whole purpose of any kind11 of Code provision is to send a matter to12 the Zoning Board of Adjustment or not13 permit it. The Code already does that.14 And, again, we've said it's redundant,15 and I cannot say that it's going to16 present as a harm issue, the passage of17 the bill. It doesn't really harm18 anything. It just adds another piece of19 language to the Code.20
I would25 9 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 agree that it may be extra protection,2 but I think that's just what the3 situation calls for, as was the case in4 Roxborough.5 Thank you.6
Thank you.7 Mr. Maurer, please identify8 yourself for the record and proceed.9
Fred Maurer. And10 I have a copy here for the Clerk. You11 can give a copy to Mr. O'Neill as well.12 Ready?13
My name is Fred16 Maurer and I testify on Bill No. 17 I was present at a public18 meeting when Commissioner Michael19 DiBerardinis spoke of converting some20 vacant lands, City lands, into garden and21 farms. At the end he said some large22 parcels could then be made into23 profit-making farms. 1 When he talked about public lands, he2 only mentioned Recreation Department3 lands, and he suggested some excess4 Recreation lands could be used as a5 community neighborhood garden. He6 implied the loss of Recreation lands7 would be de minimis. He never mentioned8 a large change of legal uses. 11 When he was asked about12 Fairmount Park lands, he only said there13 would be no changes in them. 17 I now hear there's a plan by18 Commissioner DiBerardinis to convert the19 Fox Chase Farm out of its publicly20 dedicated public missions and to be used21 for a for-profit farm enterprise. 1 agricultural farm. This is a major2 change of public policy, and that was3 done in secret. It smells bad, with4 politicians pandering and favoritism. 7 I think Commissioner Mike8 DiBerardinis has to reveal and present9 the whole scenario of who and how this10 policy change was formulated. 13 As a concerned citizen, I want14 to see any transcripts where this change15 of Fox Chase Farm was ever considered and16 gave consent. The last time I requested17 to see a transcript, Commissioner Michael18 DiBerardinis denied me. 8 When we lost the Fairmount Park9 Commission governance, we also lost 16010 years of rules of law that is now park11 law and in precedents. 14 The Rec Commissioner Michael15 DiBerardinis spent the whole year to make16 a plan on how to sell and how to convert17 them out of our public rights. But the18 Rec Commissioner DiBerardinis now fails19 to honor our laws. 4
Thank you5 very much for your testimony.6 Jean Gavin, please.7 (Witness approached witness8 table.)9
Is James10 Kates in the room? Is Mr. Kates here11 also? Could you please come forward at12 the same time. And Susan Anmuth.13 (Witnesses approached witness14 table.)15
Sir, you16 can have that seat there.17 Please identify yourself for18 the record and proceed with your19 testimony.20
My name is James21 Kates. I'm Vice-President of the Friends22 of Fox Chase Farm.23
Do you have24 prepared testimony?25 15 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1
I am Jean Gavin, a5 member of the "Save Burholme Park" group6 that did exactly that, saved the park.7 Thanks to SCRUB's support, a thorough and8 thoughtful decision by an Orphans Court9 judge and a smart, winning lawyer, we10 saved Burholme Park.11 Now, we believe that the12 planned takeover of the Fox Chase Farm is13 the City's next step in its bid to sell14 off all of Fairmount Park.15 Mayor Nutter pretended that he16 was a supporter of the Philadelphia parks17 when he was a Councilman. I voted for18 him for this reason alone. However, the19 very first month that he took office as20 Mayor, he visited the Fox Chase Cancer21 Center in secret, without even one22 discussion with Save Burholme Park23 members, and gave away our park. Then24 when Samuel C. Stretton, our lawyer, won25 16 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 in Orphans Court against the opposition's2 multiple, high-priced, big-time lawyers,3 the City, under Mayor Nutter, appealed to4 the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania.5 This state court upheld Judge Herron's6 Orphans Court decision unanimously.7 Judge Herron has protected8 parkland in Philadelphia and in all of9 Pennsylvania in his thorough and10 thoughtful 2008 opinion, and the11 Commonwealth Court upheld this opinion12 unanimously. But Mayor Nutter has yet to13 understand this news. It's up to City14 Council to crack this nut.15 Save Burholme Park members16 support Councilman O'Neill's Bill No.17 100721 to save our unique treasure of Fox18 Chase Farm from the threat of big19 business commercial growers. The Rules20 Committee will have the first crack at21 this difficult task. Support Councilman22 O'Neill in his attempt to defend our23 inheritance, Fox Chase Farm and Pennypack24 Park.25 17 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 Save Burholme Park's happiest2 day was on December 9, 2008 when Judge3 John W. Herron's decision secured our4 Burholme Park. Burholme Park was saved5 in spite of a political "done deal"6 through the strong support of three7 heroes for the environment. First was8 SCRUB's Executive Director, Mary Tracy;9 second, Samuel C. Stretton, our fantastic10 lawyer; and a wise judge, No. 3, John W.11 Herron with his unanimously approved,12 thorough, thoughtful decision. These13 heroes saved Robert Waln Ryerss' Burholme14 Park for the people. They were15 successful in saving parkland from big16 business interests.17 Now, the Rules Committee must18 take up the fight. Please support19 Councilman O'Neill's Bill 100721 today as20 your first step to save the rest of21 Fairmount Park. Keep Fairmount Park,22 quote, "free to the people forever,"23 unquote, which is a quote from the Ryerss24 will, for Philadelphia's present and25 18 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 future citizens.2
Thank you3 for your testimony.4 Please identify yourself for5 the record, sir, and proceed.6
My name is James7 Kates. I am Vice-President of Friends of8 Fox Chase Farm.9 Good morning, members of the10 Committee on Rules. My name is -- I11 already said my name. We want to12 publicly thank Councilman O'Neill for13 sponsoring this legislation to protect14 Fox Chase Farm from commercial15 development.16 Fox Chase Farm is currently17 under a long-term lease between the18 Fairmount Park Historic Trust and the19 School District of Philadelphia. The20 educational program plays host to 10,00021 elementary school children. It includes22 mentally gifted programs for middle23 school children and pre-vet program for24 high school students. The environmental25 19 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 education program and special events are2 organized by the staff of the Pennypack3 Environmental Center with the help from4 volunteers. These program events attract5 another 10,000 participants. The farm is6 also host to an active 4H program that7 provides 22 children the opportunity to8 help raise steers, goats and pigs so that9 they can represent Philadelphia County at10 the Pennsylvania Farm Show. Two of those11 4H children are with me today, and when12 I'm through, they'll make some very brief13 remarks.14 The Friends of Fox Chase Farm15 with over 400 family members feels that16 any proposal to use parts of this17 property to accommodate a few commercial18 growers may risk programs that positively19 affect so many and does not seem to be20 the best use of this facility. We have21 worked very hard for 20 years to preserve22 and improve this property and the public23 programs it provides. In just one day,24 we were able to collect over 30025 20 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 signatures to oppose any commercial use2 of this property, which is listed on the3 National Register of Historic Places.4 I think I turned one of those5 in before, but I have another copy of6 this petition if you'd like to see it.7 We are not opposed to the8 concept of growing fresh vegetables close9 to where City residents of the City can10 get access to them. We just don't11 believe it would be practical at this12 facility. There are over 50 head of13 livestock at the farm, including cattle,14 sheep, goats, horses and pigs. The15 fields are used for grazing the animals16 and growing hay for winter feed. The17 farmer cuts hay and bails hay at a nearby18 facility owned by a religious order to19 supplement what he can grow at the farm20 for winter feed. The 35 acres of land21 within the City include 13.4 acres that22 cannot be farmed, consisting of forest,23 steep sleeps, riparian buffers and24 farmstead buildings. The remaining25 21 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 acreage within the City is vitally needed2 for grazing and represents the best3 scenic view of the farm enjoyed by the4 passing public.5 The acreage within Montgomery6 County includes 20 in steep-sloped forest7 and 38 acres with swales designed to8 control storm water. Utilizing the9 acreage in the back part of the farm10 would require a new access road, which11 would take more land and running water12 lines, because there's no water in those13 back fields, and intensive agriculture14 requires irrigation.15 There are plenty of other more16 suitable places for this green17 initiative. The Somerton Tank farm site18 and the former Krewstown mounted police19 stable are nearby sites. According to a20 recent report, there are over 40,00021 vacant properties in the City, including22 one-third owned by the City. Brown to23 green would help revitalize neighborhoods24 and bring fresh food closer to those who25 22 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 can benefit the most.2 Please send this bill to the3 full Council for approval.4 Thank you very much. And I'd5 like to introduce Noah and Lindsey, who6 will make a brief statement.7
If they8 could just pull the microphone close up,9 sit up at the microphone so we can hear10 you, whoever would like to go first. You11 can pull the microphone down. Perfect.12 You could just state your name13 and say what you have to say about the14 bill.15
Hi. My name is16 Noah Lamutyan (ph). I'm a member of 4H17 in Fox Chase Farm in Philadelphia. 4H18 has given me the opportunity to learn19 about farm animals and interact with20 them. The majority of all the members21 are from Philadelphia, so if it wasn't22 for 4H, they might have never learned23 what they are learning now.24 My last animal was a pig named25 23 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 Fibby, and I would brush him, I would2 walk him and I would play with him, and3 then I showed him. And then now I have a4 goat named Skipper, and I brush him, I5 walk him and I play with him. And I6 might never have had this opportunity if7 it wasn't for Fox Chase Farm giving 4H8 the permission to house their animals9 there.10
Thank you11 very much for your testimony.12 Please identify yourself and13 proceed. Pull that microphone right up.14 Thank you.15
Hi. My name is16 Lindsey Clark and I am 11 years old.17 This is my second year in 4H in the Goat18 Club. I have had three goats, and each19 one is so different. I have learned new20 things with each goat, things like how21 goats are used for either wool, milk or22 meat. I have learned responsibility that23 is hard work. The animals need care24 whether it is 100 degrees out, raining25 24 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 out or freezing cold.2 There are no farms near me3 except the Fox Chase Farm. If land is4 taken away, I would not be able to do 4H5 animal care anymore.6 I met the Commissioner of7 Abington at the train station this8 morning. He was contacted by 4H, because9 a lot of the farm is in Abington10 Township, though most of the kids in 4H11 Club live in Philadelphia. He told me12 all 15 Commissioners were against anybody13 coming to use the farmland for uses. I14 am thankful for his support.15 I have a younger brother who16 has been looking forward to joining 4H17 Club when he is old enough. Please leave18 the farm the way it is now for me and all19 the other young children waiting to have20 a turn.21
Thank you22 very much for your testimony. Thanks for23 coming in.24 That concludes the list of25 25 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 witnesses for this bill.2 Oh, please have a seat.3 How many other witnesses are4 there for this bill? Two? Okay.5 Because I sense the view of the Committee6 is that we're going to support Councilman7 O'Neill's bill. So if you're in favor of8 it, that's great, and we need to -- we9 got a big schedule today.10 So please identify yourself for11 the record.12
Good morning. My13 name is Susan Anmuth and I'm a member of14 the Friends of Fox Chase Farm, and I too15 am here to speak to the bill that16 Councilman O'Neill has begun.17 My husband and I are volunteers18 and we've been volunteers for many years19 at the farm. We consider the farm a20 jewel, and we, along with the others that21 you see here, have worked very hard to22 ensure that Fox Chase Farm remains a23 working farm for the public to enjoy.24 The public is what this is all about.25 26 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 Any change in the farm would really2 impact and have a profound impact upon3 the farm community.4 I have two points. One, why5 would the City even consider jeopardizing6 a program that involves over 10,0007 school children every year? Fox Chase8 Farm hosts children every single day of9 the school year, from preschool to high10 school. Children come here for lessons11 from all over the City, and these12 children are from each of your districts.13 As a City resident and as an14 elementary school teacher, I have brought15 children to the farm many, many times to16 learn things that they do not learn in17 the classroom, things like maple18 sugaring, nutrition, tree identification19 and where their food actually comes from,20 as well as an appreciation of nature.21 Movement around the farm during22 these lessons is controlled, but not23 restricted. Children are touring,24 looking for leaves, measuring trees,25 27 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 visiting the animals and more. We worry2 about the real dangers of increased3 traffic, of heavy farm equipment and of4 the additional people that would be5 around the children if this is not6 approved.7 No. 2, we also wonder why you8 would choose to take away already9 established green space. In addition to10 the 4H Club that you heard about, we also11 have a farm garden where the produce that12 is grown is given to area food banks. We13 also have the public festivals, which14 draw thousands of people from all over15 the City.16 In recent years, the Friends of17 Fox Chase Farm, our hundreds of family18 members and our public, have had to fight19 to maintain and protect the space. Even20 though we are now on the National21 Register of Historic Places, this22 landmark seems that it is never safe. We23 do not want to see our farm parceled out.24 We don't want to have to police25 28 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 strangers. We don't want to have to2 worry about their use of pesticides and3 all the other safety concerns, especially4 since there are many other places in the5 City that are better suited for this.6 As we passed around this7 petition at our last festival, Applefest,8 there were several Kensington residents9 who came up to us and said, Why would10 they do this to the farm? Why don't they11 do this in our neighborhood? We would12 really appreciate it. And that is our13 question. We all know that green space14 has been shown to increase property15 values and the well-being of residents,16 and that's what we ask for. We need our17 Fox Chase Farm green space.18 We invite you out to visit the19 farm. It is at 8500 Pine Road in20 Philadelphia. And we would like to thank21 Councilman O'Neill for introducing this22 bill.23 Thank you.24
Thank you25 29 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 very much for your testimony.2 The last witness, please come3 forward.4 (Witness approached witness5 table.)6
Good morning.9 My name is Lucy Strackhouse and I'm the10 Executive Director of the Fairmount Park11 Historic Preservation Trust and I'm here12 today to offer testimony on Bill 100721.13 The Fairmount Park Historic14 Preservation Trust administers the15 long-term lease with the Philadelphia16 School District for Fox Chase Farm, which17 was entered into on November 1st, 199918 and expires on October 31st, 2029. The19 lease has specific language, Exhibit E,20 which does not allow any uses by the Park21 and Recreation Department without22 appropriate permitting from the23 Philadelphia School District. Please see24 Exhibit E attached to this document for25 30 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 further information, and I'll review that2 quickly.3 The Fox Chase Farm Campus of4 Abraham Lincoln High School is a working5 demonstration farm operated with the6 purpose of educating the residents and7 school children of Philadelphia and the8 surrounding region in regards to the9 history of agriculture as well as10 present-day agri-business. Additionally,11 it serves as a learning center for12 horticultural, agricultural,13 environmental and historical studies for14 the teachers and school children of15 Philadelphia as well as the community at16 large. Programming includes educational17 tours and activities related to18 agriculture developed and implemented by19 staff and students from Abraham Lincoln20 High School. The farm is also used by21 teachers and staff from the various22 schools of the School District as a23 living land laboratory for experimental24 studies in all disciplines. The25 31 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 Education Department of the Fairmount2 Park Commission, with appropriate3 permitting by the School District, also4 uses the Fox Chase Farm for public5 activities on non-school days for its6 programming. All activities for the farm7 are coordinated by Abraham Lincoln High8 School.9 We believe that Exhibit E10 accomplishes the intent of Bill No.11 100721, and we respectfully ask the12 Committee not to approve this13 legislation. We also agree with our14 colleagues in the Park and Recreation15 Department, Planning Commission and the16 Park and Recreation Advisory Commission17 that Bill No. 100721 places unnecessary18 restrictions on Fox Chase Farm.19 Thank you for your20 consideration.21
Thank you22 for your testimony.23 Councilman O'Neill.24
I agree25 32 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 it's in the lease, just as I agree it can2 be found in the Code.3 This is crystal clear. This4 leaves everyone who has testified in5 favor of this, spoken in favor of it,6 with a clear understanding that this can7 never happen.8 Thank you.9
Thank you10 very much.11 Thank you for your testimony.12
That will14 conclude the witness list on this bill.15 I just want to make an16 announcement that there will be three17 bills that will be held today. They will18 not move forward at the request of the19 sponsors. The first is Bill No. 100720,20 which was introduced by Councilman21 DiCicco. It's an ordinance amending22 Title 9 of The Philadelphia Code,23 entitled "Regulation of Businesses,24 Trades and Professions," and Title 14 of25 33 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Zoning2 and Planning," by adding special3 provisions regulating advertising signs4 in designated Commercial Advertising5 Districts; designating Market Street6 between 7th and 13th as a Commercial7 Advertising District. That will not be8 heard today. That will not be heard9 today. That will not be voted on in this10 committee.11 The second bill Councilman12 DiCicco is asking to be held is Bill No.13 100678, an ordinance amending Title 14 of14 The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Zoning15 and Planning," by adding a new Section16 14-1642, entitled "I-95 Condemnation17 Corridor," to permit the relocation of18 certain structures and devices in19 connection with the PennDOT project to20 widen portions of I-95. That will not be21 heard today and will not be voted on. So22 if you're here to testify on that, you're23 welcome to stay, but I didn't want to24 waste your time, because it won't be25 34 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 heard.2 The third bill being held at3 the request of Councilman Clarke is Bill4 No. 100761, an ordinance amending Section5 14-1629 of The Philadelphia Code,6 entitled "Yorktown Special District7 Controls," by amending the specific8 District Boundaries; all under certain9 terms and conditions. Again, that bill10 will not be heard today and will not be11 voted on.12 COUNCILMAN O'NEILL:13 Councilman?14
Councilman15 O'Neill.16 COUNCILMAN 'O'NEILL: Can I ask17 for a rules suspensions when the18 Committee considers Fox Chase Farm.19
Thank you.22 The next bill for discussion is23 Bill No. 100552, an ordinance amending24 the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing25 35 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 the zoning designations of certain areas2 of land located within an area bounded by3 Race Street, 4th Street, 5th Street,4 Florist Street; and by amending Section5 14-303 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled6 "'C-3' Commercial District," all under7 certain terms and conditions.8 Mr. Kramer, please identify9 yourself for the record.10
Good morning,11 Chairman Kenney and members of the Rules12 Committee. I am William Kramer, Division13 Director of the Development Planning14 Division of the Philadelphia City15 Planning Commission. I am here today to16 testify on Bill No. 100552, which was17 introduced by Councilmember DiCicco18 September 16th, 2010.19 Bill No. 100552 amends the20 Philadelphia Zoning Maps by amending the21 zoning designations of certain areas of22 land located within an area bounded by23 Race Street, 4th Street, 5th Street and24 Florist Street, and amends the25 36 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 Philadelphia Zoning Code by amending2 Section 14-303 of The Philadelphia Code,3 entitled "'C-3' Commercial."4 This bill amends the zoning5 designation of this block from its6 current designation of "L-4" Limited7 Industrial to a designation of "C-3"8 Commercial. The bill as written amends9 Section 14-303 of the Philadelphia Zoning10 Code through a variety of permitted and11 prohibited uses, adjustments to the12 height regulations of the Old City13 Special Controls District and14 modifications to both parking and loading15 requirements.16 Bill No. 100552 will also allow17 for one non-accessory outdoor advertising18 sign providing digital display and19 changeable copy. The sign will be20 embedded into the east-facing wall of the21 building at the western portion of the22 property and have a maximum sign area of23 1,200 square feet, with no additional24 regulations.25 37 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 The City Planning Commission2 staff has worked with the applicant to3 amend the legislation to address the4 concerns of the Planning Commission while5 addressing the needs of the applicant6 while also communicating with the7 community. Respectfully, we submit the8 following amendments for your9 consideration.10 The amendments make certain11 technical language changes and reflect12 the following changes to the Code: To13 remove the Old City Special Controls14 District use qualifications for the15 property; permit a maximum of 35,00016 square feet of restaurant, entertainment17 or public assembly; permit a height18 maximum of 145 feet along the western19 portion of the property for the hotel;20 change the parking requirements to21 require one space for each three hotel22 units and one space for every 200 square23 feet of restaurant, entertainment and24 public assembly uses. This change will25 38 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 bring the minimum number of required2 off-street parking to 220 spaces as3 proposed; remove the provisions of this4 bill allowing the non-accessory signage5 as a matter of right; provide that the6 map changes would be a permanent change7 while the requested Code relief aspects8 of this legislation would have a two-year9 sunset provision.10 We feel that this will allow11 for the project to meet the building12 envelope as proposed, provide parking for13 their needs and provide the majority of14 uses they are requesting, while not15 having firm agreements with any tenants.16 Despite the best efforts from17 all the parties, there is a difference of18 opinion regarding the provisions of Bill19 100552 that deal with signage. The20 Planning Commission believes that the21 issue is a significant one and should be22 the subject of a separate piece of23 legislation. The applicants are seeking24 to obtain legislative relief to allow for25 39 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 accessory signage with LED capacity to2 permit changeable messages.3 At its meeting of October 19th,4 2010, the Philadelphia City Planning5 Commission recommended that Bill No.6 100552 be approved with the amendments as7 previously outlined.8 That concludes my testimony.9 I'd be happy to answer any questions you10 may have.11 I do have the copy of our12 proposed amendments, but I do know that13 there are very similar amendments that14 are circulating amongst the Council.15
Thank you16 very much for your testimony.17 Please let the record reflect18 that since we've begun, Councilwoman19 Blondell Reynolds Brown and Councilman20 Kelly have come to the table and they are21 here.22 Councilman Goode.23 Councilman DiCicco, do you --24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Go ahead.25 40 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1
Thank you,2 Mr. Chairman.3 Thank you, Councilman DiCicco.4 Good morning, Mr. Kramer.5
A couple7 questions just for the record. Some of8 them may seem strange, but who is the9 head of the City Planning Commission?10
The head of the --11 the Chair of the Planning Commission is12 Alan Greenberger, Deputy Mayor, head of13 Commerce.14
So he is15 Deputy Mayor for Planning and Economic16 Development?17
And he is a25 41 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 voting member of the Commission?2
So as the4 Commission considers projects, are5 economic development concerns taken into6 consideration?7
And so those10 requirements that are economic11 development requirements; more12 specifically, economic opportunity13 requirements, are they considered?14
They are15 considered. I don't want to indicate16 that it is specifically brought out as17 part of the presentation to the18 Commission proper, but they -- it's hard19 for me, because they are part of the20 meetings going into it and certainly are21 issues that are discussed at great22 length.23
If an24 economic opportunity plan is required for25 42 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 a project, would the City Planning2 Commission approve the project without an3 economic opportunity plan being4 established?5
Yes, sir, they6 would, and they do that because under the7 zoning provisions of the Code, it's not a8 requirement under the zoning provisions.9 I understand it is a legislative one.10
And I11 understand that Alan Greenberger is the12 Deputy Mayor for Planning and Economic13 Development?14
It means19 he's a voting member of the Commission.20 In fact, he chairs the Commission. He21 has the responsibility to make sure that22 the economic development concerns are23 considered along with the zoning24 concerns?25 43 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1
I understand3 that's not your job, but I was just4 asking the question for the record, and I5 will talk to Mr. Greenberger about that6 in the future, about as we consider those7 projects, before the Planning Commission8 recommends that we vote yes, that those9 things that should be in place with10 regard to economic development,11 specifically economic opportunity, be12 addressed, or at least if they are13 required particularly by law, that they14 be in place before the Planning15 Commission considers them.16 With that said, is there17 actually a specific project here?18
There has been a19 project that has been proposed. As to20 how real any of it is, I would defer to21 the applicants, who are also in the room.22 They could address that.23
Were you24 reviewing a specific project?25 44 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1
I have seen plans2 for a specific project for this3 particular block, yes, sir.4
Do we know5 how many jobs are associated with that6 project?7
No, sir. That8 part of it I was not aware of. I'm9 certain it was mentioned at one point or10 another, but I do not know.11
So the12 Planning Commission does not deal with13 economic development concerns at all?14
As a Planning15 Commission, no. We're looking at the16 zoning provisions and the legislative17 relief required to meet the provisions of18 the Code. And, unfortunately, it is --19 it's difficult to pull it out of it20 completely, but, yes, it's not something21 that we put on our front burners. We're22 looking more for loading and parking,23 that kind of a thing.24
I understood25 45 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 that to be the case. I just wanted to2 ask those questions for the record.3
Thank you5 very much.6 Any other questions for this7 witness?8 (No response.)9
If I may, just as12 a cautionary thing, there was a technical13 amendment to the maps with regards to the14 Law Department. Those have been made in15 the copies of the amendment that I have16 and I don't know that they've been made17 to the provisions of the amendment that18 was submitted by the applicant, just to19 make sure that it's clear so we don't20 have any other future problems with it.21 COUNCILMAN KENNEY:22 Councilwoman Brown.23
Yes,24 Mr. Chairman. Can we please have the25 46 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 question raised about the number of jobs2 answered by the appropriate party.3
Mr. Shiavo.11 And also let the record reflect12 that Councilman Clarke -- I'm sorry.13 Hold on one second.14 Mr. Shiavo, just hold on one15 second. We did not have a request16 specifically to us about the developer17 testifying at any particular time. The18 sponsor of the bill and other members of19 the Committee think it's appropriate to20 have the developer at least lay out the21 plans first prior to having comments.22 It's hard to get comment on the plans23 that haven't been presented yet. So I24 appreciate your understanding.25 47 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 (Witnesses approached witness2 table.)3
Please4 identify yourself for the record, whoever5 is ready to -- hold on. We have a --6
Sure. Good7 morning. My name is Ronald Patterson.8 I'm with the law firm of Klehr Harrison,9 1835 Market Street, and I am here10 representing ARC Properties, Inc., which11 is the property owner and proposed12 developer of this property. With me is13 Mr. Robert Ambrosi, who is a principal of14 ARC.15 If I may proceed?16
As I mentioned18 Mr. Ambrosi or identified him, his last19 project was the Ten Rittenhouse project20 that we're all familiar with. This21 property has an address of 401 Race22 Street. 1 which is Florist Street. It's comprised2 of approximately 46,000 square feet,3 which is over one acre in size. There's4 an existing three-story building with5 parking lot areas that was formerly known6 as the Pincus building. 13 As Council will hear from14 Mr. Ambrosi, we propose a real financed15 project to reuse and build upon the16 existing building and to create a17 fabulous mixed-use location driven by a18 hotel -- this is a hotel use -- of a19 dramatic design with all of its accessory20 uses. 1 structure to the east, consisting of five2 stories along 4th Street that would have3 approximately 45 condominiums. 5 We're also proposing on-site6 parking, using a creative configuration7 of tandem parking, valet parking and8 mechanical. That's why you see that9 relaxation in the ordinance, because the10 Zoning Code does not recognize those11 types of configurations. The Zoning Code12 only requires, for example, that a space13 be 9 by 18 and there is a drive aisle14 that you can pull in and pull out. You15 cannot put cars one behind another. 6 million. 10 The property is vacated parcels that the11 Streets Department had taken over years12 ago as part of the street vacation. 16 The hotel is driving the design. The17 main proposed use is a hotel. And hotel,18 believe it or not, is considered a19 residential use, not a commercial use,20 and that is not permitted in "L-4" Light21 Industrial. 1 components that comprise the project as a2 whole to allow for the height of the3 hotel to exceed the Old City overlay of4 65 feet to 145. 18 As Mr. Ambrosi will get into19 more detail, this is an $80 million20 project with 150 construction jobs. It21 would be union, with 260 permanent jobs22 proceeding. 6 And after the culmination of7 about two years of discussion, with most8 of it concentrated on the last year,9 we've obtained the support of the Old10 City District, the Visitor Center, the11 Constitution Center and Historic12 Philadelphia. And we further narrowed13 the scope of the ordinance by negotiating14 a private agreement, proviso agreement,15 with the Old City Residents Civic16 Association, and we also expect to have17 conditional licensing agreements for the18 LCB license there. And by way of19 example, while "C-3" allows restaurants20 in infinite number, our agreement as21 proposed would only allow for two LCB22 areas, one in the hotel and one possibly23 on the first floor. 1 with the OCCA, and they're here to2 testify on their behalf. 15
Before you16 do that, could you point out for me where17 the sign would be, where the sign on the18 building would actually be.19
The bridge22 is here.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The bridge24 is on the left side.25 54 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1
I'm just9 trying to orient myself. The top10 structure is condo or hotel?11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: This is12 the hotel; this is the condo.13
And the14 sign would be where?15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: On the16 north face.17
On the18 north face of the hotel.19 Do you have an elevation of20 that?21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Witness22 indicating.)23
That's24 facing?25 55 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The2 bridge.3
That would also4 be set back a couple of feet into the5 building.6
I'm sorry. My9 name is Robert Ambrosi. I'm Chair of ARC10 Properties.11 Council, thank you for hearing12 us today and --13
You proceed14 with your normal testimony. I was just15 trying to get an idea of where the sign16 was.17
Sure. I was18 going to cover that as we go along.19 I think each of you should have20 a little pamphlet here showing the slides21 that we're going to be showing. Is it22 possible for me to stand up or do I need23 to remain seated? It would just be a lot24 easier if I could point to the board as25 56 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 we go through.2
If you can3 get the microphone -- no. We're okay.4 We're good.5 (Mr. Ambrosi handed wireless6 microphone.)7
10 We have a number of slides here11 we're going to go through. The first12 slide I'd like to start with is the13 experience of ARC Properties. We're a14 25-year-old company. We've done over 20015 projects across the country. We've won16 numerous awards, including an award from17 the Environmental Protection Agency, New18 Jersey Builder Association, School of19 Architecture, ICSC, which is the top20 retail institution in the country. The21 reason I bring it up is not to brag about22 us. 4 And so we have a good track record, and5 it's important. 9 I want to spend a minute on10 this aerial photograph, because in11 planning this project, we were very, very12 careful in what we are doing. It's a13 very unique site because the site is14 walking distance to the Convention15 Center, to the Liberty Bell, to Market16 Street and also to the new casino. At17 the same time, it's a very isolated site,18 because this site is surrounded by the19 Mint on one side, the entire city block,20 Franklin Square on the other side, Ben21 Franklin Bridge on the other side and, of22 course, 4th Street and the residential23 tower there. 4 By the way, this building has5 been vacant for about six years. 9 This is a closer shot of the10 site. Again, here you can see the Mint,11 which is a very dark street right now,12 Franklin Square, the bridge and how this13 project is really isolated. 17 In fact, some of these people are here18 today to testify on our behalf. We also19 met with the Old City District and the20 Old City Civic Association. 1 disagreement. 9 There was a flyer going around that we10 were doing a 35,000 square foot11 nightclub. That was never, ever part of12 our submission. Originally we submitted13 35,000 square feet. It was going to be a14 bowling alley, a restaurant, a retail15 store and a small music venue of about16 2,000 square feet. Then we went out, we17 started to talk to other people. We18 reduced it to 23,000 square feet,19 including a dance floor of 500 square20 feet, which is a 20 by 20 area. 24 One restaurant cannot survive here. 1 Mint occupies all of Race Street. 5 Now take away the square and put up a6 concrete building. Would the restaurant7 survive? 9 We need to have a critical mass10 here so that the project can survive. I11 am very sensitive, very sensitive to12 everybody's needs. 16 One other thing I'd like to17 mention, in doing this also we've met18 with all the unions. This is a union19 construction job. I know Unite Here is20 here now. 1 agreement. 5 Every job we've ever done in Philadelphia6 has been union. I see no reason why this7 one would not be union. I simply don't8 have the authority to negotiate until I9 have an operator. 11 In designing this project,12 we've also been very sensitive to the13 views. We rented a crane. We went up14 every level of the property, and we've15 looked at the best views. 1 old building and the new building. As2 you can see, we're trying to preserve3 some of the old building and then add to4 the new building to keep some of the5 nature of the building. I happen to6 think the building is a good-looking7 building. It needs to be fixed up. 13 I'm going to describe for you14 quickly the project, and as Ron stated,15 this is an $80 million project. It will16 create about 260 permanent jobs and 15017 construction jobs. 19 Then again, keep in mind, this is the20 Mint right here. 23
I'm sorry.24 The street with the trees is what street?25 63 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1
The back6 buildings are 4th.7 This curb, if I draw in the8 Mint building, you will not see this9 retail. This entire block is a 50 foot10 high concrete wall. So the retail here11 is a very sensitive issue. It really is.12 Anyway, here the first floor13 would be retail. The second -- and we14 will go through all the floor plans when15 I make this presentation.16 The second floor will be17 parking. The third floor will be hotel18 rooms. The fourth floor will be the19 hotel lobby with the amenity space, and20 above that will be the hotel. On 4th21 Street, there will be the residential22 building.23 I want to look at this plan now24 to show you the sensitivity that we've25 64 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 had in designing this. When we first2 started designing this project, we met3 with Old City Civic Association and we4 had a much higher tower on 4th Street.5 There were a number of different things6 we had. We had less parking. We had a7 higher tower. Over the past two years,8 we've reduced the building on 4th Street,9 and we've retained the height on the10 building on 5th Street, because we've11 been very sensitive to putting a buffer12 on 4th Street from the residential13 neighborhood so that we can serve the14 residential neighborhood in a quiet,15 peaceful way, and then we grew the16 project towards Race Street near the17 Constitution Center, near Franklin Square18 where there needs to be more activity.19 We've put the entrances to the retail20 along 5th Street. The combination of21 retail uses that we're looking at ideally22 would be a food store on 4th Street.23 That would be great. There needs to be24 some activity in here facing the large 5025 65 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 foot wall. We're not going -- we can't2 get a high-class woman's store here.3 It's impossible. They don't want to be4 across the street from a 50 foot wall.5 So what we need to do is to anchor this6 entire project with some sort of activity7 that will give it a critical mass with8 the entranceways on 5th Street so that9 people visiting, the 2.8 million visitors10 a year and the 150,000 cars a day, know11 it's here. There's no other way of12 identifying this retail along Race Street13 at all.14 So we've been very sensitive to15 how this project grows and integrates16 into the neighborhood.17 This is a copy of the first18 floor plan. For the moment, I've taken19 out the residential here, just so that20 you can see exactly what's here. Right21 now on 4th Street, there's a vacant lot,22 there's a steel building and a concrete23 building. The idea would be to renovate24 the first floor of the concrete building,25 66 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 and this is primarily where the2 restaurant space would go. As you can3 see, we've designed the entrance to all4 of the restaurant space on the corner of5 5th and Race. We originally had planned6 a bowling alley in between in the steel7 building, which we have not been able to8 reach an agreement on. We're talking to9 a health club. We're talking to a spa10 kind of operator, but this cannot be,11 again, a boutique, woman's clothing12 store, because you're facing the 50 foot13 wall and you're isolated because of the14 surrounding properties.15 Eventually the vacant lot here16 would be the residential. The hotel17 entrance would be here. There would be a18 sky lobby. So you'd walk into here,19 you'd go up three floors in the elevator20 to the sky lobby, and that becomes your21 grand lobby. Parking is on the second22 floor. So we've provided these parking23 ramps that would go up to the second24 floor. There would be access off of 5th25 67 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 Street exiting onto 4th Street.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Through3 Florist.4
Through Florist.5 The second floor here would be6 all parking, parking on site for 2207 cars. We can even get more than that if8 we add more lifts. This does not include9 the parking all along Florist Street or10 the current parking along -- that's down11 on 4th Street at the moment.12 By the way, in the parking13 we've also agreed to put PhillyCarShare14 within the parking facility to make it15 easy for the residents and to serve their16 needs.17
This is parking21 for the complex. It would be ticket22 parking where you come in, go up,23 valet -- it would be valet lift parking.24
How about25 68 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 the residents?2
I'm sorry.5 The area of land that you're looking to6 acquire from the DRPA, that's Florist7 Street too, isn't it?8
Yeah. What we're9 doing actually, we're acquiring an10 easement in perpetuity along Florist11 Street. They still retain the rights to12 fix the bridge and to service the bridge13 and do everything else.14
I think we go out17 12 feet as far as a permanent right, and18 beyond that, the DRPA has the right to19 take the land back if they need it.20
What we've done22 here, you're seeing, is, this is -- the23 blue area here is the existing concrete24 building, and I think we've created25 69 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 something very, very unique. What we're2 doing is, we're cutting out a 75 by 753 foot hole in the roof, in the concrete4 roof, and it's go to be like sitting here5 and this would all be a park, and the6 rooms on the inside would all be facing7 this nice park, and from the fourth floor8 looking down, you'd be able to look at9 this park. So if somebody were having an10 event here; for example, somebody were to11 have a wedding or a business celebration,12 they could rent out these rooms and this13 would be a private space, completely14 isolated, completely in nature open.15 There's no glass roof. This is all16 natural, open landscape. And as you can17 see, we've wrapped the rooms around the18 outside as well as wrapping rooms around19 the inside. These rooms here would have20 access to a terrace. We're actually21 thinking of putting little fire pits22 outside where people could slide the door23 open in the winter or even the summer,24 have their own little private fire pit.25 70 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 This here shows the fourth2 floor. Again, I think it's a very3 unique, interesting design. We've been4 very careful about the views. And,5 again, I want to preface this. There is6 a building here, a five-story residential7 building, buffering this entire area from8 the 4th Street and everything that is9 east of 4th Street. This, again, I'll10 remind you, is the Mint, which is a 5011 foot concrete wall. You got Franklin12 Park here and you've got the bridge here.13 So this is a very isolated project.14 In the lobby area here, we have15 an entranceway. We have meeting rooms.16 We have a gym. We have a swimming pool.17 We have a restaurant with a terrace18 overlooking the Liberty Bell, and we have19 this outdoor backyard area with seating20 area, again, some fire pits. This area21 here would be walking trails and things22 of that nature. So it's a real green --23 and this will be a green project, by the24 way. It will be a LEED's project that25 71 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 we're doing.2 In doing a hotel, we originally3 had an L-shaped hotel that was much4 larger than this, and, again, working5 with the various organizations, they6 wanted us to cut the hotel down, make it7 more lean. We have done that. In fact,8 we reduced the original square footage by9 36,000 square feet from what was10 originally proposed and accepted, by the11 way, originally by all the different12 people we had worked with.13 We've already discussed the14 accessory sign. I think the sign is very15 important. We've designed it very16 carefully. We've set it back into the17 building. We've angled it on an angle so18 you can only see it from one opening19 coming down the bridge. It only faces20 one way. This project is isolated. It's21 surrounded by the Mint, Franklin Square22 and the bridge. We don't have the23 benefit of having neighbors across the24 street from us, of having that activity.25 72 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 There has been concern that2 this would turn into Market Street. This3 can't turn into Market Street. None of4 our neighbors can build everything.5 Everything is isolated and fixed. But6 unless we have the critical mass, this7 will fail. It needs to have its own8 identity. It needs to be a destination.9 It needs to have a critical mass.10 Thank you very much. I11 appreciate it.12
Thank you13 very much for your testimony.14 Councilman DiCicco.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,16 Mr. Chairman.17 Mr. Patterson, do you have more18 testimony? Because I can hold my19 questions until --20
No, I don't,21 unless there are any questions. I have22 Anne Fidulan (ph) here from Dale23 Construction who can talk about the EOP24 plan, and I have some witnesses in25 73 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 support.2
Understand,3 so I want to try to run the list so we4 have a little bit of balance. We had5 requested a witness list and didn't get6 it. So I have people who have requested7 to be here, so I want to kind of get8 it --9
Everybody12 will be heard. I just want to make sure13 we have a little bit of balance back and14 forth, and maybe we can get some of the15 issues out there that may be resolvable16 as a result of that discussion. But on17 the EOP, Councilman Goode or Brown,18 whatever, if you want to pursue that.19
If you could20 just -- I have reviewed the plan21 attached. If you could just explain the22 plan.23
Sure. No24 problem. I think Mr. 1 name is Anne Fidulan. I am the head of2 Development for the Dale Corporation. On3 this project we're serving in a4 development and construction advisory5 capacity. We're not going to be the6 contractor on this project. 11 Just speaking about our12 background as Dale Corporation, we have a13 long history of success in the City in14 complying with minority and women hiring15 requirements. Our most recent job, Cecil16 B. Moore that we completed, we hit 2717 percent. We're continually trying to18 strive to get to 30 or above and to19 comply with all the regulations. We take20 it very seriously. 1 we balance sometimes the needs of Section2 3, local hiring, with hiring unions and3 hiring minorities. Oftentimes what4 happens is, we'll do a job in North5 Philadelphia and then we'll have another6 job in West Philadelphia. However, if we7 move that worker who we've established a8 good relationship with in North Philly to9 the West Philly job, we don't get the10 credit for it, and what we would like to11 do is create permanent jobs for these12 people, not just have them work in West13 Philly and then say, Sorry, we don't get14 credit for you in North Philly. 18 Anyway, regarding this project,19 One Franklin Square at 4th and Race20 Street, we have a draft EOP plan that has21 been put together. I believe it's been22 submitted to the Committee. 2 As was mentioned, I think,3 earlier, we anticipate 100, 1504 construction jobs at peak, probably5 during peak construction. 17 We will make best efforts to hit those18 goals. 20 As far as employment goals,21 we're looking at 50 percent for22 Philadelphia residents. That's what we23 try to hit for new hires. Thirty-two24 percent for minority. 1 Corporation we're constantly hovering2 around that 30 percent, a little bit3 better range. Again, our role here is to4 oversee this for this developer to help5 whoever is hired as the contractor to hit6 those goals. 15 Again, we are very successful16 in hitting minority. 1 they've been agreed to. We will make2 every effort to work with the developer3 and whoever is hired in the contract to4 exceed these goals, not just to meet5 them. And, like I said, we take this6 very seriously. 13
Thank you14 for your testimony. So the developer has15 made you responsible for the economic16 opportunity plan?17
I would say that18 they have asked us to help them and to19 serve in an advisory capacity to ensure20 compliance with the plan.21
And the22 developer testified that he has spoke23 with the building trades about the24 project?25 79 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1
Did you4 speak to building trades about the5 economic opportunity plan?6
I did not have --7 I'm not sure because I did not have the8 direct conversations with them about9 that. I can report back to you on that10 one.11
Who spoke12 with the building trades? You spoke to13 the building trades?14
Good25 80 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 morning. Please identify yourself.2
My name is Fred3 Cosenza with the Philadelphia Building4 Trades. I spoken with Dan McCaffery5 about the minority participation, that we6 are 100 percent on board, and with 507 percent unemployment, those numbers will8 be very easy to get to. We are in full9 support of this.10 I am also on every oversight11 committee for minority participation in12 the City, University of Penn. Anywhere13 that we have minority participation, we14 do and will hit those goals for this15 project. And, once again, we are 10016 percent behind this project. With the17 people that we have out of work, we need18 this work like we need oxygen.19
Set by24 prevailing wage.25 81 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1
Yeah. The5 unions -- this will be constructed with a6 union contractor, where our wages are set7 prevailing wage rates.8
Okay. Can15 someone respond to the 260 permanent jobs16 in terms of wage rates? Can someone,17 developer or counsel, some response to18 the permanent jobs?19
I don't know. We24 have to select an operator. Once we have25 82 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 approvals, we select an operator. The2 operator will then sit down --3
We do not have an9 operator yet. We're interviewing four10 different operators.11
One quick14 question before the point.15 You do realize this is a formal16 transcript?17
This is a23 formal legal transcript. Either you have24 an operator or you don't have an25 83 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 operator. Either you've decided upon an2 operator or you have not decided upon an3 operator.4
We have not5 decided on an operator at this moment.6 We are interviewing four operators right7 now.8
We do not. We11 have a franchise. It will be a Starwood12 franchise, and we're now interviewing13 four operators and management companies14 for the hotel.15
The hotel22 franchise will be Starwood. The23 operator, my terms, my definition -- I'm24 sorry. My definition of the operator is25 84 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 the management company who manages and2 operates the hotel. So we are3 interviewing four groups right now.4
Have you5 discussed with Starwood at all the job6 quality of wage rates associated with7 whatever jobs they will be overseeing?8
Because they will11 not talk to me until I have an approval.12 The way the process normally works is, I13 fill out a franchise agreement. Once the14 franchise agreement is approved, I need15 to get my approvals for the project. At16 that point we appoint a manager, and at17 that point the manager, Starwood, and18 myself sit down, and then you have those19 discussions.20
So they want21 us to approve the project without22 ensuring any job quality or wage rate for23 the 260 jobs?24
We have not even25 85 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 had that discussion yet.2
It is7 appropriate to discuss construction jobs8 with a prevailing wage rate, but it's not9 appropriate to discuss permanent jobs and10 the job quality and wage rates? That's11 ridiculous.12
No. I don't13 agree with you. I'm sorry. I'm the14 developer. There's a contractor who15 builds my building. I can have a direct16 conversation with that contractor.17
I18 understand. I'm going to advise you very19 quickly. This can be a very long20 discussion.21
I'm sorry. I22 just don't understand the question. I'm23 really trying to cooperate. I'm not24 trying to be an obstacle, but I'm trying25 86 11/29/10 - RULES - BILL 100552, ETC.1 to explain the process.2
And I'm3 trying to explain to you the process.4 Are you aware of the fact that5 there are living wage laws around this6 country?7
And you9 actually do developments along the10 eastern seaboard?11