-- we consolidated departments. In the case of our collection, development and processing divisions, we will be making a consolidation there again, eliminating a management position. We are continuing -- It's an ongoing process for us, but we will continue to look at ways in which we can cut management. Over the last three years, as I said, we have combined departments in Central. We're combining other management departments. 227 And each time we do that, we will look to streamline the management structure of the library. We have done it already and will continue to do it as part of this process.
For this process, we will be hiring, L.A. II's will be promoted 13 to L.A. III's. 41 permanent part-time staff 14 will be hired. 21 L.A.s and 20 municipal 15 guards. And 47 seasonal staff will be hired. 16 That's 28 L.A.'s and 19 municipal guards who 17 will work 16 hours each week from September 18 to June while the libraries are open six days 19 a week. 20
Of that list. And when these libraries are open six days a 228 week, what will their hours be?
When these 4 afternoon branches are open, their hours will 5 be 1:00 to 5:00 six days a week. 6 Libraries only open on Saturdays 7 during the course of the school year were not 8 open on Saturdays during the summer, as they 9 show. 10
So, say that 11 again. These people are going to do what? 12
These seasonal 13 employees are being hired to help us open 14 these libraries six days a week from 15 September to June. 16
Yes. From June to September they're not open. Their seasonal employees are only hired for those nine months. They're laid off at the end of June and rehired, just like our L.E.A.P. leaders 229 that do our after-school program work from September to June.
The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco for a point of information. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam President. Sorry to interrupt. Nine months a year. Are these people then entitled to unemployment?
I don't know that I could answer that question. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: For some reason, I thought if you worked for six months...
I don't think they would have worked enough hours, Councilman. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Sorry to 230 interrupt again. I was just concerned about --
It's not enough hours. What happens during the summer months?
The summer months the library is closed on Saturdays. It always has been. We have never had Saturday hours over the summer. We go to five days a week.
These branches 15 would be open from 1:00 to 5:00 during the 16 week during the summer as well. 17
So... I'm 20 sorry, Mr. Vaughan, but you're hiring all these part-time people. The branches are not open during the summer...
Nor are the full-time 231 branches open in the summer on Saturdays. I mean, there are no libraries open on Saturdays during the summer, no branch libraries.
Right. Okay. So, let's go back over. What are all these part-time people doing?
These part-time people are going to help staff up these afternoon 15 branches, to make sure that we have enough 16 staff to keep them open. Even when people 17 are out on illness or for vacation time or 18 they have a day off, there will still be 19 enough people to keep them open 1:00 to 5:00 20 and provide our time for our after-school programs.
These are the people who are going to staff it to keep them open 232 1:00 to 5:00. These are the staff for those branches.
These are for the additional branches that will be coming express.
Some already have, and I thought another round was coming up in April.
Excuse me? We're hiring people to open those branches up. We do not have all the staff on hand to open those branches up.
Do you have money in your budget right now to do that?
Okay. Well, by the end of this fiscal year, how many more positions are you expecting to cut?
We are losing positions to the DROP, and we are losing positions as people retire. If people retire, they're not replaced. 233 But we should be -- we expect that at the end of this fiscal year we should be at around between 640 and 630 employees full-time.
And your testimony indicates that but for $5.5 million you would not be doing this?
It would cost $5 million to restore the library to the same type of service that we provided four years ago when we had all the branches open on Saturday and a full complement of staff to do that. (Applause.)
Let's talk a little bit about the state. You absorbed a cut in state funding as well?
And your testimony indicates that in FY'03 you had $9.4 million from the state. In FY'04 that dropped to $5.9; is that correct?
So, you took a $3.5 million cut from the state which is about a 37 percent cut in funds.
And that amount has now risen to $7.2, but you're still obviously lower than you were two fiscal years ago.
And what efforts are being made to get funding restored at the state level?
Well, we've been fortunate that we've had great support from our friends and from people who have gone to Harrisburg. We have gone to Harrisburg, and we've asked the Department of Education to fund libraries. Let me say that it is a statewide situation. Philadelphia was not singled out or cut. It was all the libraries across the state were cut by the same percentage. We happen to be -- We happened to receive probably the largest allocation from 235 the state. So, of course, when it gets cut by a percentage, we get the largest share of the cut as well. And that's what happened.
So, you got a 37 percent cut from the state. And the amount you've been cut by the City is how much?
Over the course of the last three years, we've lost roughly 10 percent of our staff. 11
I said over the course 17 of the last three-and-a-half years, four 18 years, we have lost about 20 percent, between 19 15 and 20 percent of our full-time staff. 20
Well, you're saying that the -- I mean, what's been the impact of the state cut? 236
The state cut... Well, the first part -- the first part of the state cut ended up hurting us, in terms of our ability to buy books and materials for the branches. What we did, when the state cut us, was to try to avoid layoffs. We tried to move as many people from the state side of the house onto the City side of the house. As the City resources have declined, what we've continued to do, even as we got additional state funds, was to move City people onto the state funds, to make sure that we didn't have to do additional layoffs. Even in the layoff situation when we were working with the Managing Director's office in order to avoid more layoffs than the ones we ended up taking, we actually did move additional City staff onto state funds so that the layoffs wouldn't be larger.
Now, what happened to the $1 million that we gave you in the current fiscal year?
We restored $1 million to your budget back on July 1, 2004.
In addition to the $1 million that you gave us through the Council process, we were asked by the City of Philadelphia to raise an additional $1 million in revenue. And the way that that was going to happen was through an increase in fines. And that money has not materialized, so we have not been allowed to spend that $1 million. That $1 million has gone, I guess, to replace the revenue that we did not generate by the fine increase.
Well, hold on. So, what; this is like an intergovernmental match system or something? I mean, we give you $1 million, but you have to go and raise another $1 million, essentially from the citizens, in order to get the City's money? I mean, this is -- I mean, and this goes back 238 to the comment. I mean, that is a shell game. We give you $1 million. You have to go get $1 million. If you can't raise $1 million from where, then you don't get the $1 million?
That would seem to be how the Budget Office made that decision, yes.
It resides in the budget, but we're unable to spend it unless we raise the $1 million through fines.
And apparently the citizens of Philadelphia were not derelict enough in their duties with their library books -- 239 (Laughter and applause.)
-- to help generate additional funds so that you could get the $1 million that we gave you. I mean, what the... (An unidentified Councilwoman said something away from the microphone, not reportable.)
It's really been a long day. (An unidentified Councilwoman said something away from the microphone, not reportable.)
That's true, because you don't get any more messages. I'm going to take a... On that note, I'm going to give myself a time out and I'll come back.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco. 240 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam President. I think Councilman Nutter covered about every question I was prepared to ask, except for maybe one or two. Good afternoon.
Good afternoon. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It seems that you drew the short straw, as they say, huh? (Laughter.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: When did the plan begin to get -- When did the plan begin to be developed? About when? This plan about reorganization, downsizing, reducing.
We have a strategic planning process that I mentioned that in my testimony. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: When did that begin?
We started our strategic planning process, I would say, well as the summer began in June. It was -- We did not address the idea of what would happen if we had this kind 241 of budget, but the idea was that we knew that we were going to have limited resources. And we started to work with a number of people talking about a new paradigm of service, not the specific one, but we put that kind of -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Safe to say that there was discussion, planning, development stages prior to the hearing that took place in this chambers, when Elliott and others came over seeking support from Council for the Central Library expansion.
But this plan was not on the table then. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But there was discussion. It may not have been this exact plan, but you were planning --
In very general terms. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: ...in very general terms, based on what you understood the state monies available were and the City 242 monies would be available.
That would be correct. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That was prior to the hearing which this City Council made the decision to support the Central Library expansion.
Yes. Planning was ongoing. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We were not never -- Council was never informed of this plan or any other plan prior to that, to your knowledge; is that correct?
I -- I. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Here's where I'm going. What I'm getting at, Kevin, is that on the day of that hearing, when Elliott and others were here seeking support from Council for the expansion...
Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: ...I posed a question to Elliott, Mr. Shelkrot, and I said a lot of people who live in neighborhoods who don't use the Central Library, maybe never have used it, if there is any plan, any 243 discussion going on that may reduce the hours of operation, maybe closures in the neighborhood branches, maybe reduction of staff as we currently know it to be today, that people may look upon the expansion as some sort of a... It's not in their best interests in the neighborhoods. Because people sometimes look at the Central Branch Library -- not that I do -- as this beautiful building in the heart of a very rich neighborhood in Center City where people who are affluent get to use it and neighborhood people never get to use it. So, neighborhood branches basically suffer as a result of that. Understanding there are two different pots of money, but the perception is, it doesn't do me any good in Port Richmond that the Central Library is expanding on the Parkway. It doesn't do people in Kensington any good that the Central Library is expanding. And I was a supporter of the expansion. But it's the perception that, what good does it do me? 244 And I asked Elliott, are we going to be faced with a problem that we may have to look -- be looking at doing a budget that will reduce the hours of operation at the neighborhood branch libraries as we know it today. He said -- I'm paraphrasing -- don't worry about that. We got a plan that's going to be okay, which led me to believe that there wasn't going to be anything near what we're talking about today. So, you know, I almost wish we could go back and talk about the Central Library again.
Councilman, can I answer that for a second? My belief is that this is a plan that we put in place because the City has what I believe is a short-term cyclical problem at this moment. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Short term?
I hope it's short term. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You know more 245 than we do.
I think this is a... COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's all that money coming in from Israel. All right. Got it.
This plan is put in place as a response... a strategic response to a situation that we believe will improve. And it's put in place so that we can build back the system, not leave the system in the way that we're doing it or proposing to do it, but that the system will be built back. And we believe that a strong Central Library and a few business cycles with additional revenue that will help us build back the system will give us a complete library system at the time that the new Central Library opens. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And when do we expect that to happen?
We believe that will happen in a number -- four to -- three to four to five years. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Four or five 246 years. Okay. So, we're going to live with these cuts, this reduce the number of hours.
The new library will open in four to five years. We're hoping that over that time -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But that's going to be part of the -- The Central Library is going to help bring in revenues that will help the branch libraries? Is that what you're saying?
No. By the time we get there, the branch libraries will have been restored to where they were four or five years from now. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But there's no 18 guarantee. It's just that's your hope is that that will happen.
Our hope is to work to make that happen. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And what is it you're going to do that will make that happen?
Well, the business 247 cycle will turn. I'm hoping that the City will have additional tax revenues or additional opportunities to help the library be funded in a way that will restore -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: This is not your problem. We did have a $300 million surplus a few years ago and business was doing well. I just have another question. I think Councilman Nutter asked about administrators. How many administrators have access to vehicles?
I believe there's one. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: There are no 19 other administrators or directors, whatever the titles are, that have access?
There's one City car that is available to staff. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's it?
That's it. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, that's 248 good news. Thank you.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
I just want to ask a couple of questions. I want to go back to the Library deal because I never could figure out why we were voting for it. But did we get the but for argument, that if we don't do this, this will happen on the library expansion? What is the tie-in... I guess I'm going to say, why do we both want the expansion of the Library? Did I understand that there was some... You can't get the money from -- for the foundation if you don't cut the debt service? Tell me about that.
There are no 25 foundations who are willing to give money to 249 a project that the lead funder, the City, hadn't yet committed to.
Okay. All right. Now, what is the proposed debt service on that project?
That -- Councilman, the Central project is a project that is being coordinated by the Director. And I can get you that information, but it isn't information that I would normally work with. I work with the day-to-day operation of the branches, Central and the entire Free Library system but not on the development.
So, it's $3.5 million a year, as I understand, debt service on the new construction. Okay. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Where is it coming from, that $3.5 million?
Debt service? From the second floor. From the second floor. 250 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's my point, but are we going to be able to support a debt service?
That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm trying to get to. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: They're not going to use that money, assuming it's there, for the purpose of keeping the libraries open full-time. (Applause.)
That's my point. That's my point. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm missing it.
In terms of raising the question about the debt service, I just spoke earlier to Councilman Mariano. That wasn't what -- my stomach wasn't on that vote with that because I couldn't understand voting for it, and the debt service, if we thought we were going to have a shortfall in the library branches. So, we could have $3 million and look for 2, right?
We could have 251 $3 million if you don't do the bond deal for the construction of the expansion.
Councilwoman, I would just say that if we don't have... Let me -- Let's talk about Central just for a second, and what Central means to this system as a library, as -- just as a library. We have renovated and worked on every single branch library and regional library in the system. We have an extraordinary investment that we've made in those branches. Those branches are all supported. They rely on and are enhanced and work because of the Central Library. The Central Library isn't of itself separate and apart from the rest. If one could think of it as the axle on which the rest of them spin. It makes -- It's the engine that drives those neighborhood branches. They couldn't exist without a strong Central 252 Library to reinforce and to send out the books and to do all the things that a Central Library can do. The Central Library was built in 1927, finished in 1927. It is not had renovation. It is overcrowded. It is inadequate to really support and keep those branch libraries strong. Without the work that needs to happen to build that Central Library, and to keep up with the technology, and all of the things that would make it appropriate for the 21st century, the investment, the time, the energy, and even keeping the rest of the branch libraries going would be a losing battle. It would be a losing battle for us. We would never be able to maintain those branches in the way that we believe they need to be maintained without a strong Central Library. Just it couldn't happen. It would be impossible. And so, I understand the immediate issue about what could that $3 million be 253 used for? But I would suggest that it would be an investment that, without making the investment in the Central Library, would have long-term and possibly very damaging results for those neighborhood branches about which we all care.
Well, I understand that. And I appreciate your comments. But the question I want to ask, did you say earlier you would begin construction in three to five years?
This $1 million, as you can imagine, went over like a lead 254 balloon.
You're in a crisis. You've got a million bucks sitting in your account, your budget, right? If you were able -- who's told -- Who told you you could not use that money?
The Budget Office is relying on us to come up with $1 million. And unless we come up with $1 million, our budget isn't complete. I mean, there's, you know --
Not to cut you off. Do you we give Fleet Management $10 million and tell them, go raise $10 million?
Why would they say that, unless they knew that they were trying to obstruct Council in knowing that you could not raise $1 million to match that money?
I don't believe -- And I'm not going to -- And I can't answer for 255 the Budget Office. But it's not my belief that the Budget Office thought we couldn't raise the $1 million. It's unfortunate that we couldn't. But we -- it -- You know, they worked -- We worked with them to come up with an idea. When -- They vest all the departments to try to find a profit center to help defray some of the costs or to increase the income that they have in order to spend. And we were unsuccessful in doing that. It's...
So, are they going to give us our $1 million back or what's... (Laughter.)
I mean, this is -- I mean, it makes me... Honestly, as hard as I try, as a guy on the other side of the aisle, to be supportive of this administration, every time I sit here and hear stories like this, it gives me another reason not to. I mean, that is absolutely a 256 disgrace, what I just heard. (Applause.)
I mean, to cry wolf, and know that you've got that money there, and you've got some bureaucrat that's telling you -- and I don't even know who that person is -- that you couldn't spend that money, to me is a disgrace. I mean, I just can't believe... Go ahead, Frank. Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Point of information. On that same subject, how much money has been raised on the fines of the $1 million?
We project that we won't raise any more than we have in the past. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: How much?
We have in the past... I'd say the '04 number, 6/3004 is about $800,000. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So we're 257 $200,000 away from the $1 million? And we can't get the $1 million?
No. No. No. We have in the past raised up to $800,000 in fines. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: What did you raise in '04?
It was $800,000 in '04, and we were asked to raise an additional $1 million on top of that.
$1 million on top. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Oh, on top of that?
$1 million on top of your historical fine-raising activity.
That's correct. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So, they -- they -- they -- they -- So, it's not your fault. They knew you weren't going to raise the money. That's why they did it.
So, what we should all do is go get a whole bunch of books, keep them in our houses, never bring them back until we can calculate how much $1 258 million is. And then we'll all come running in with our fine money. I mean, this is insane. (Applause.)
I mean, when that was presented to you, what did you guys say?
We would do the best we could. (Laughter.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Could I just finish up? And apologize for interrupting.
I need all the help I can get. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Traditionally you raise $800,000. How much is actually owed in delinquent fines?
In total it's probably 50 percent more than that, where people will come in with, say, a $10 fine. And you're trying to hold on to that customer. So, you night waive down to $5. 259 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Putting those people aside, how much is owed by people who never even show up at all? What is the -- What is due the library today in fines? And remove that population that at least makes an attempt.
It's probably equal to the amount of fines we collect. It's probably an extra $800,000. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Does that number change annually or is that just a steady $800,000?
Well, it changes based on... Well, we're learning now it's based on the rates that we charge. We collected a higher degree of fines when the fines were lower. And as the fines have gotten to where they are now, we're finding out that people are dropping their books -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: How long ago was it that we raised the fines?
July 15th of '04. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So, it's fairly new. 260
This fiscal year. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All right. This fiscal year. How do you go about collecting fines? What is the collection procedure? Is it internal? Do we have a collection agency? How do we go about collecting those fines? I'm not trying to raise $1 million here, but I'm just trying to help you out. It's about trying to get you a million bucks. That way we can get the million we gave you already and you'll have $2 million.
In the normal course of business, if someone comes in and their materials are late, the fines are just told to the customer. And they remit their fines or they try to negotiate a better rate. That's the better part of the fines. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Right.
Other fines, we do have a system in place where we send out notices. If your fines are, say, 30 days late, you'll get a notice from us. You'll get another notice after 60 days. Don't 261 quote me on the dates. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I understand.
It's a three-step process. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And that's done internally by the library or is that outsourced?
No. That's done internally. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Was it ever outsourced? Has there ever been any discussion that -- And I'm not saying it's the better way to go. Has there ever been a discussion about maybe it's better to do it that way? Would you get some up front money if you contracted it out?
It's... You're... We do a little bit of both. Most of what we do is in-house. At some point we turn it over to an agency called... Well, Unique Management, to try to collect the debt for us. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: How far out is the debt before you turn it over? 262
Well, we'll give them -- We'll always give the customer at least one notice, maybe two. If their fine exceeds $40, it goes to Unique Management. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So, it's based on the value of the fine, as opposed to the time that -- See, I know a little bit about collections. In my Traffic Court days, the longer you wait, the more difficult it is to collect. It's the funnel thing they tell you. The first 30 days you got a better shot, and as the longer it goes the more difficult it is. I mean, if the library shouldn't be -- It's not a fining mill. We understand that, but it is money that's due. And in these hard times, you know, someone said earlier, got to turn over every rock, look under every rock.
And we do. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm wondering if it makes sense to contract it out almost -- maybe after the first 30 days. 263
We've actually tried to work closely with this company, as well as talking to the staff about how much -- how many fines they waive. I mean, we're concerned also about the fact that every dollar that they waive is $1 that we could be getting back the $1 million. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So it's not part of the procedure? It's just come in and, well, I only got five bucks, but I owe you $15. And whoever collects says, I'll take the $5. There's no policy?
The policy is that we ask the staff to do the best job that they can do to get our -- first -- one, get the books back so that other people can use them; two, to try to maximize the amount of money that they can get back from the customer when the customer comes in, because those dollars are plowed back into the system. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I know I've taken up a lot of time on this point of information, but you said -- Or is it Bill? 264 Someone said that we don't want to lose the customer. Where are they going if they don't come to the library? (Laughter.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I don't mean that to be facetious. I'm just curious. I didn't -- I don't know. That's why I'm asking. I'm not being facetious. I'm just curious.
If I may, I'd like to try to put a face on the customer. In some cases the customer may be a 15-year-old child whose mother moved a few times, who's on a fixed income who just forgot to bring their book back, is trying to get back to the library. And that negotiation is just based upon the reality the may not have the $10. The may have $5, but we want to keep them as a customer. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Is there a recidivism rate? Do you look at whether it's the same people that continually...
The system can tell 265 that to the -- There are librarians who will look at it and they will say, you know, you owed this much before. We won't give you another break because we gave you break last time. They do do that. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All right. Thank you. Thank you Councilman Rizzo.
No problem. I just want to finish up. I just hope the people here today realize that Council has really tried hard. And I'm a bit nervous that if we restore the $5.5 million -- Is it $5.5 million -- that they're going to ask you to match it. So... (Laughter.)
I've never... You know, I've never heard a scenario like this. And, you know, it's so funny it's sad or it's sad, it's funny. I don't know either. I'm a little confused on this. But just want to end this like this. If you had the availability -- If you had 266 that $1 million -- If you had access to that $1 million, that could help right now solve some of the problems. $1 million is a lot of money, and still is. You could do a lot with that $1 million right now. We need to get that $1 million released so you can start using it. Forget the match. But my point being -- and I hope everybody's listening -- that we try very hard here to do the right thing. You saw us. We amended a budget. They got the $1 million dollars, and the administration did not permit them to use it. And I say again, that's a disgrace. And I think we need to see before long to loosen up that money to do some things to keep the neighborhood. I love the Central Library, but these neighborhoods and the libraries are very important to all of us here. So, I think when Elliott gets back from Israel, that you really need to make sure that he does what he does -- He has to 267 jump up and down a little bit and say to the people, the powers that be, that he needs the money that's there. It's not like we're asking you for more. It's there.
The conversations... And, you know, I mean, I think the Budget Office has been incredibly supportive of the library over the years and has worked very diligently to make sure that we could continue to provide services. I mean, I don't want to even leave you with the impression that the people in the Budget Office have not been working with us on all sorts of things. And I will tell you that there is no 17 better advocate for the library internally or externally to help fund the things that we do than Elliott Shelkrot.
Anybody that -- First of all, anybody that put that restriction on that money was not a friend of the Free Library, believe me. (Pause.)
And again, I 268 understand you're the messenger, but you are also an executive there. And you should not tolerate for one minute being treated like that. Thank you. (Applause.)
Councilwoman Tasco, did you have a point of information?
I have a point of information. How many books do you lose in this fining process, in not being able to capture the fines? How many people don't return them? Do you lose a lot of books?
We do lose a number of books. And our goal is always to try to bring those books back into circulation so that people can use them. I can get you some numbers on that, if that would be helpful to you, Councilwoman.
I just wanted to raise the issue. You're coming back, you know.
You're coming back for the budget question. And I just want to say this for the record: I mean, we have to ask the tough questions because that's our responsibility. But I will say that Elliott Shelkrot has been a real advocate for the libraries, and so has Kevin and the staff, and the friends, all the groups. I mean, you may disagree with what's happening now. But it's not their fault. They're dictated by what goes on downstairs on the second floor. So, they don't have the $1 million. It's not because they're not spending it. The Budget Office may want to do it, but there's a message that's given that you're not going to spend this money. And they can yell and they can scream, and they can go out and try to embarrass the administration. But next thing they'll be doing is looking for a job someplace. 270 So, let's not shoot the messenger. They're following the dictates of the administration on the appropriation of the funds here. And they have worked very hard. And we thank them, because Elliott has been an advocate ever since he came to the City of Philadelphia for the libraries. And we've tried to be supportive and he's tried to get as much money as he can for the operation of the library. It's not... The only problem I have with all this is that expansion at this time, given the scenario. But I'm sure when they started with that, the economy was better and we had a better -- We had a $300 million surplus. We ought to be asking what happened to it and where did it go? Because where he don't see it. So, let's not shoot the messenger. And I still want to say that we're going to ask the tough questions, and they're going to have to answer them. And as they 271 answer them, the truth will be told. Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco again. Your light is on. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah. Thank you, Madam President. Earlier Councilman Nutter was engaged in questioning concerning hours of operation, the part-timers that will be from September through June. No libraries are open in the summer, June through September. We understand that. What is the usage, attendance, rate of branch library's June through September versus... vis-a-vis this September through June? Is there a considerable dropoff? Is there an increase? Does it stay the same?
Over the summer we do summer reading for kids. We have a number of day care -- day camp programs, and we support lots of other things. So, there are a number of things that go on. I don't want to tell you that it 272 drops off precipitously because we do get a lot of programs going over the summer. Even when we're not doing our after-school program, we supplement it with other things that we do. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Five days a week?
Five days a week. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Is it the morning hours? Are they more -- Because it's summer and kids are off the school, did it get more uses in the morning versus the afternoon? Has that been looked at? Voices in the audience: Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: What I'm getting at -- And I'm not looking for a way of reducing hours in the summer, but I'm wondering if, from an administrative and a financial standpoint, would it pay to look at some reduction, either the afternoon hours or a day a week not even opening? I know that doesn't go well here, but... And using those savings to keep the libraries full-time September through June, 273 which I would think traditionally are the most -- that's the time that the libraries are used the most, when kids are in school.
Councilman, that's an idea that we would be willing... As I said earlier, if Council has ideas that we could look at and we could explore, we'd be glad to do that. And we will -- I will come back with some usage data for you that might help frame that. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will be brief. Mr. Vaughan, when the William Penn Foundation made the grant to the library system, that is what resulted in big change, right?
Does the library 274 system make any commitment to the funder, with regard to not only the renovations that would be made, but the service levels that would come as a result of accepting that rather large grant? How much was that?
Councilman, I was not at the library at that time, but I can certainly get that information for you.
I'm sitting here, and I'm not quite sure who that we have here who was at the library at that time.