COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, May 22, 2000 10:25 a.m. - - - BILL 000221 - Creating Net-Works TIF. Board of Directors Appointments Resolutions: 000192 - N. Tissian, So. St./Headhouse Spec. Svcs. 000193 - A. Greenberger, Old City Spec. Svcs. 000194 - Bush Bell, " " " " 000195 - F. Palmer, So. St./Headhouse Spec. Svcs. 000196 - H. Lander, " " " " " 000197 - M. Weinberg," " " " " 000198 - A. Sitnick, " " " " " 000199 - B. Pierson, " " " " " 000329 - M. McMahon, City Ave. Spec. Svcs. 000330 - H. Wurzak, " " " " RES. 000230 - Confirming the appointment of Kenneth I. Trujillo, Esquire, as City Solicitor. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA, Chair COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL, Vice Chair COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK J. DICICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILMAN W. THACHER LONGSTRETH COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 5/22/2000 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE I N D E X Page Res. No.'s 000192 through 000199 Dick Ostrander, Executive Director . . . . . . 4 South Street/Headhouse Special Services District Cynthia Filo, Director . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 Old City Special Services District 7 Norman Tissian, Board of Directors Appointee 5 Al Sitnick, " " " " 5 Bush Bell, " " " " 8 Alan Greenberger " " " " 8 Attached bios of: Fluffy Palmer, Board of Directors Appointee Marlene Weinberg, " " " " Res. No.'s 000329 and 00330 David Cohen, Executive Director. . . . . . . . 10 City Avenue South Street/Headhouse District * Mike McMahon, City Avenue Special Services 11 * Howard Wurzak, City Avenue Special Services 11 Bill 000221 * Robert Fina, Senior Vice President of PIDC 12 On behalf of PAID Res. 000230 * Kenneth I. Trujillo, Acting City Solicitor 74 Stephen Presser, Legal Director . . . . . . . 98 ACLU of Pennsylvania (* - Also provided attached written testimony.) 3 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000192 thru 199 P R O C E E D I N G S
Good morning, everyone. This is the Committee of the Whole of Council. I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the titles of Resolutions 000192, 000193, 000194, 000195, 000196, 000197, 000198 and 000199.
Resolution No. 000192, appointing Norman Tissian to the Board of Directors of the South Street/Headhouse District of Philadelphia. Resolution 000193, appointing Alan Greenberger to the Board of Directors of the Old City Special Services District of Philadelphia. Resolution 000194, appointing Bush Bell to the Board of Directors of the Old City Special Services District of Philadelphia. Resolution 000195 appointing Fluffy Palmer to the Board of Directors of the South Street/Headhouse District of Philadelphia. Resolution 000196, appointing Howard Lander to the Board of Directors of the South Street/Headhouse District of Philadelphia. Resolution 000197, appointing Marlene Weinberg to the Board of Directors of the South 4 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000192 thru 199 Street/Headhouse District of Philadelphia. Resolution 000198, appointing Al Sitnick to the Board of Directors of the South Street/Headhouse District of South Philadelphia. Resolution 000199, appointing Bob Pierson to the Board of Directors of the South Street/Headhouse District of Philadelphia.
Thank you. Do we have anyone here -- Councilman DiCicco, are any of the candidates here? And if so, would you please ask them to approach the witness table.
Thank you, Madam President. I believe the majority of the people are here, and I ask that you all come forward and pull some chairs up. (Board of Director nominees come forward.)
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Thank you. I am Dick Ostrander. I am the Executive Director of the South Street/Headhouse Special Services District. I have with me two of our new Board members. Two 5 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000192 thru 199 of the named people, Fluffy Palmer and Marlene Weinberg are out of town. I've brought with me bios which explain their qualifications and their interest in the Board, if you would like to have those.
Howard Lander was previously a Board member, as announced, and is being up for a second term. And that is also the case with Bob Pierson. With me are two new Board members, Al Sitnick and Norman Tissian, and I'll get out of the way, if I may, and let them speak. Thank you.
Would you tell us something about yourselves, please. 6 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000192 thru 199
I've been in the area all my life, and I have had A business on South Street for the last eight years and am very interested in seeing the neighborhood get much, much better, and I want to see a lot of younger people be involved in the district.
My name is Norman Tissian. I'm a lifelong Center City resident, in Society Hill about 32 years. I have just completed a two-year term as the president of the Society Hill Civic Association. I've been very actively involved in the community, including all South Street activities, for many, many years. And I'm delighted to play an active role on the Board of Directors.
Thank you. Are there any questions from members of the committee of the two gentlemen at the witness table? (No questions.)
Thank you, 7 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000192 thru 199 gentlemen.
I'm Cynthia Filo (ph.). I'm the Director of the Old City Special Services District. I'm here today -- to my left is Allen Greenberger, a Board nominee. To my right is Bush Bell, also a Board nominee. And to my far left is John Taxin, who is the Chairman of our Board of Directors and the owner of Old Original Bookbinders, located in the Old City Special Services District. Madam President, I don't know if you would like me to go ahead and describe our two Board members or if you would prefer them to go ahead and give a little brief background on their own.
It doesn't 8 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000192 thru 199 matter, whatever you feel more comfortable doing.
Okay. First I'm going to present -- I think it's -- 194 is Bush Bell. Bush is the general manager of the Sheraton Society Hill in the Old City District.
My name is Bush Bell. I'm the general manager of the Sheraton Society Hill at Second and Walnut Streets. I've been the general manager there for about months and am 13 new to the area, but I'm very excited to be a part 14 of the vibrant, growing Old City District. 15
And I see 16 that you're approved of the term, your term would 17 end December 31, 2001? 18
I'm a partner of MGA 9 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000192 thru 199 Partners Architects in Philadelphia. Our business moved to Old City, on the 200 block Market Street, two years ago, from Fourth and Walnut. I've been a resident of the City of Philadelphia for 6 years and am past president of the American 7 Institute of Architects 1992. 8
Madam President, I have 10 prepared a statement that does include the resumes 11 of each of these gentlemen, and I have provided 12 copies for you. 13 If you have any other questions, I 14 would be more than happy to answer them. 15
Are there any 16 questions from members of the committee? 17 (No questions.) 18
Thank you. 21 I would ask Mr. McPherson to please 22 read the titles of Resolution No.'s 000329 and 23 000330. 24
Resolution 000329, 25 appointing Michael McMahon to the Board of 10 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000329, 330 Directors of City Avenue Special Services District of Philadelphia and Lower Merion. Resolution 000330, appointing Howard J. Wurzak to the Board of Directors of the City Avenue Special Services District of Philadelphia and Lower Merion.
Councilman Nutter called me earlier this morning and he indicated that an emergency came up and that he would not be able to be present this morning. However, he does recommend the two gentlemen that are approaching the table very highly and asked the Councilmembers to certainly consider them with a favorable recommendation. (Witnesses come forward.)
Yes. I'm David Cohen, the Executive Director of the City Avenue South 11 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000329, 330 Street/Headhouse District. And on my left we have Howard Wurzak and Michael McMahon, who are Board nominees for terms ending December 31, 2004. Briefly, the City Avenue Special Services District is the first district in North America to include parts of two jurisdictions, covering parts of Philadelphia and also Lower Merion Township.
Gentlemen, do you want to identify yourselves and tell us something about yourselves.
I'm Howard Wurzak, President and Chief Executive Officers of the Radisson 12 Caesars Hotel, and I've been involved at that project since 1982, and I've been on the City Avenue Special Services District since its inception.
My name is Michael McMahon. I'm the general manger of the Adams Mark Hotel. I've been there for two and a half years and have been on the Board that long, also.
Thank you. 12 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 Are there any questions from members of the committee? (No questions.)
We want to thank you for helping and servicing the area. Thank you so much. No questions from members of the committee? Seeing none, I would ask that Bill No. 11 000221 be read.
Bill No. 000221, an ordinance creating the Networks Tax Increment Financing District and approving the project plan of the Philadelphia Authority for Industrial for Development the development of the Networks Tax Increment Financing District. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good morning, President Verna and members of the Council. My name is Robert Fina, and I'm Senior Vice President of Philadelphia Industrial Development Corporation, PIDC, and I'm appearing on behalf of the 13 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 Philadelphia Authority for Industrial Development, PAID. I am here today to continue PIDC's testimony of Bill No. 221 that William Hankowsky, President of PIDC, initiated last week when this public hearing commenced. Briefly, Bill No. 221 will create the Networks TIF to assist in financing the one million square foot vacant former SmithKline building at 15th and Spring Garden Streets into a state-of-the-art telecommunications e-commerce office complex. The TIF will be structured to attract e-commerce companies to locate in the City. The City and the School District are being requested to approve $15 million TIF loan for the $85 million project. The TIF note would be repaid from new real estate, City sales, and business privilege taxes. No use and occupancy taxes will be dedicated to the TIF fund. 1 million to the City. Another benefit would be the unique relationship 14 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 that the Networks will have with Philadelphia Community College. First, the sixth floor of the Networks will contain meeting space and a presentation area. This floor is intended to be used for recruiting and educational purposes, including the recruiting of Community College graduates by network businesses, through recruiting seminars, job fairs, and direct recruitment presentation. Second, it is anticipated that Community College will develop customized training programs for from network businesses. Third, the Networks has already developed a Web site job Board to post available jobs, with the ability to create a link to Community College. Fourth, Community College presently uses fiber optic for Internet access, known as ISDN. Due to the Networks bringing various and multiple fibers to this property, Community College could gain Internet access from faster, less expensive fiber lines that would be cost-effective as the result of the switches that will be available in the Networks. 15 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 Finally, a net play center has been proposed for the first floor, wherein the developer would provide computers free of charge with high-speed Internet access for the public. This would be available to both Community College and nearby residents. Since introduction of the Networks project plan, there has been an amendment to clarify several issues, none of which will alter the amount of the note or the incremental taxes used to pay the TIF loan, as was described in Mr. Hankowsky's testimony last week. In addition to those amendments, the following change to the project plan is proposed. The project design has not been finalized and the figures present are based on estimates. The total amount in the line items may vary as the project design is refined and are not intended as limitations. The initial project cost and/or the size of the project are not intended -- also has limitations. The initial project and/or size of the project, excluding the addition of structured parking and/or electricity generation, if any, may 16 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 change by up to 15 percent prior to settlement of the financing, without an amendment to the project plan. Additional increases shall not be funded from any public financing source, except for increases with respect to environmental remediation, site preparation, or utility infrastructure and generation, which shall not be limited by the percent cap or the source of any 10 public funding. 11 Structured parking may be added to the 12 project without amendment to the project plan, if 13 it is financed with private funds. Private debt 14 and equity may not be decreased below $60 million 15 without approval of City Council. After settlement of the financing, no further amendment shall be required.
This language was agreed to by the District Councilman, technical staff of City Council, the developer, PIDC, and the developer's legal counsel. Previous language concerning the limitation on size and cost of this project was considered too broad and did not reflect the distinct nature of the Networks project. The project has been amended and restated to reflect 17 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 these changes and is on file with the Chief Clerk of City Council for review by the public. In closing, I would like to remind member of the City Council that today's hearing is required by the Pennsylvania Tax Increment Financing Act, and that Act requires Council to wait at least three weeks for final consideration, which would imply action at Council's meeting of June 15, 2000. I respectfully request favorable consideration of Bill No. O00221. Thank you.
Thank you. We did hear most of the testimony last week, and you indicated that with a change of language, that everyone is in agreement?
Thank you, Madam President. Mr. Fina, is there any new documentation on this project, or other projects submitted to this committee, demonstrating financial need on the part of any of these 18 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 developers?
Is it still your contention that all projects requesting TIFs have demonstrated financial need?
It's kind of interesting that you say that. I have a copy of a Philadelphia Daily News article from Wednesday, November 18, 1998, and it says that one of the proposals submitted on the agenda that day was a parking garage near the Convention Center. It said it might have been profitable without a TIF, Fina said. The City didn't want to see a garage on that site without a TIF. The developer was willing to include retail on the first level and beams that are strong enough to support a rooftop hotel. So in that case, it seems that the TIF was added to that project to influence the development; is that correct?
The TIF was added to that project so that the developer would provide an 19 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 over-build structure as well as provide retail at the ground level because we thought that was a very important urban area, and that we just did not want to have a parking garage, which he could have built, as a matter of right, but we wanted to include other features for that project. Those other features made the project in feasible as just a parking garage without the TIF support.
But you were willing to forego $6.6 million in tax revenue just to influence development of that project?
I think that was the public purpose at that time, and that's what this City Council previously approved.
Although the project would have been profitable without the TIF.
Not the way it's figured today, it would not be profitable. I think that article --
But you're quoted in here as saying that it might have been profitable without a TIF.
If it would have been a garage only, but I really can't debate the nature 20 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 of -- that quote was some time ago, and I'm not sure what the question was or how I responded in that article that occurred, I guess. When was that date, sir?
November 18, 1998. The article was written by Erin Einhorn.
Good morning. Mr. Fina, I want to go again on record and restate what I shared with Mr. Hankowsky, that though I am currently persuaded by the net job growth and the limited benefit that the School District receives from TIFs, I am not yet fully persuaded that they are in the best interests of our city. And so as I look to complete my homework and research around what New York, San Francisco, and Maine are currently doing with regards to things like child care and after-school programs and those kind of things being folded 21 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 into the entire TIF package at some juncture, I will be using that information and finding out how PIDC is going to respond favorably to those kinds of projections that we see happening in other cities.
Councilwoman, I'd be very happy to meet with you at anytime to discuss the TIF program and other aspects of it that you find appropriate.
So what does that mean when you say that, that you are willing to discuss in detail, in full how upcoming TIFs, or future TIFs that are going to be coming to City Council, will indeed factor in benefits over and beyond what the School District and the City currently receives? Is that what I hear you saying?
I'm very happy to meet with you to discuss the program in total and any aspect of it that you deem appropriate.
Thank you. 22 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Yeah, Mr. Fina, did I hear you say that there was no letters establishing financial need --
Oh, we do. We do a substantial analysis, we meet with each District Councilperson to explain that analysis of how we determine the TIF, and we meet with technical staff of City Council to discuss how we determine the TIF and the amount for every --
Well, I think that's all good and fine. You know, we obviously need development. The key issue is, do we give the developer these tax breaks if they can do it by themselves?
Well, did you ask 23 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 them for a request of need, financial need in this case?
I believe members of the technical staff may have some information. We have not made a formal presentation to City Councilmembers on that analysis.
Well, I think this is the issue here, and I think this is the forum to make a formal presentation of the financial need and state what is it that they say why they need this money.
I could briefly discuss why this particular project needs that, if you wish, or I could provide you with the analysis we did at a later time. 24 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221
Well, and I would like it from the developer to come in and establish his financial need, before this forum. 'Cause I think that's what this forum is for.
If that's the wish of Council, we could ask the developer to come forward and talk about his financial need, yes.
Because I agree with my colleagues Wilson Goode and Blondell Reynolds Brown, in which we seem to be just approving these TIFs without even a thorough analysis, a thorough discussion, and of the impact that they have on the school system and the funding of the school system over the long run, and I think -- I think it's about time that we began to have that discussion here.
Councilman, I'd be very happy to do that. We do provide a project plan, as required under the State act. Each member of Council, as you are aware, has that project plan, and it talks about the impact on the City and the School District as it exists today in the TIF District and after the TIF is approved for the 20-year term of the TIF. 25 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221
Have you been keeping up with the headlines about the school system in the last week?
Yes. And we proved that this particular TIF project that presently produces little taxes for the School District will provide over the next years $1.2 million 12 annually to the School District that presently 13 does not receive those funds, if this project 14 moves forward. That's 1.2 million annually. 15
I think that 16 discussion is still to be held, and I think that 17 opinion is still to be confirmed. 18 Thank you, Madam Chair. 19
Thank you. 20 The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam President. Perhaps I want to approach this discussion from another direction. I recognize 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 that over the last eight years now, going into the ninth year, we've approved a large number of TIFs. All of those projects, I believed, when I voted for them were things that were necessary for the City and necessary for us from a competitive standpoint as it relates to our surrounding neighbors and competitors. And I think in this particular project, that is more evident, that this kind of operation, this kind of high-tech development could be done in another county surrounding Philadelphia or in New Jersey at a much lower overall tax rate. And I think, therefore, offering TIFs and other types of incentives for this type of development levels the playing field in many ways for us vis-a-vis the suburbs. If you look at wage-tax issues and utility-cost issues and other things that developer and business people weigh in the decision whether to come and locate in one area or another, I think that this particular tool is a way in which to balance the playing field between us and places like the corridor out in Montgomery County that, you know, was eating our lunch for a long, long time. 27 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 I think it's important also, and I've said this before in other public hearings on TIFs -- and I don't want the public to misunderstand. This is not a tax giveaway, this is not taking money from the General Fund or from some pot of money in the City and saying, Here it is, take it, in order to incentivize this project. We are basically forbearing taxes that would be accrued or would amass as a result of the development itself. And if I look at this particular and this particular site, not too long ago, the last administration was suggesting that we build ball field I recognize that building ball field here. I recognize that the building of a ball field there would create jobs and other types of things to improve the economy of the City, but it wouldn't, I don't think, improve the tax situation for the School District or necessarily the real estate tax issue for the City, if the City would wind up owning that particular facility. So I think -- while I recognize that it seems that every major project now lines up for a TIF, I still think we have to weigh that against 28 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 the disadvantages that developers and business people have in establishing businesses in the City as opposed to other areas around the City of Philadelphia. So I don't view it as giveaway; I view it as a way in which to capture jobs and capture development that may be done in the suburbs as opposed to in Philadelphia. And then down the road, as they've established and created jobs and paid taxes, the School District and the City would be benefitting long-term from the long-term establishment of this business. I think what happens is, is when companies like Disney and others come into the fray and start requesting TIFs, people start wondering whether or not that's the kind of company that has economic stress or economic disadvantage, and I don't think anyone here would argue that. But, again -- the question, again, if you back to Disney is, they can go anywhere. If you want them here, then you have to create the incentives. If you're not going to fix the wage tax over an accelerated period of time, if you're not going to fix other kinds of issue -- the business 29 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 privilege tax and other things -- over an accelerated period of time, I think you're going to have to continue to use this kind of a tool in order to level the playing field against the suburbs and the East Coast. And I don't really have a problem voting for it.
I recognize that some of our colleagues here who are new members but have been involved with government a while have some concerns about the speed and the number which we approve, but I do believe in every issue that I voted on, I think we would have had a danger of losing that developer or that company or those jobs to the suburbs or to another state or another jurisdiction. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
The developer at 15th and Spring Garden, where could that project 30 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 possibly be constructed other than that in area? We are competing with the suburban counties, but they chose that site for a special, I guess, for a particular reason and that met its needs, but where would you see that project going if we did not provide a TIF?
Well, I think Councilman Kenney said it very well, that actually a project like this could go anywhere, to any suburban, any East Coast location; and with that would go the businesses that we expect will move in here, and the jobs, the 1500 jobs. So this particular enterprise could go anywhere there is fiber optics, anywhere there are these lines and access to them. There is this fiber optic in Broad Street, which makes this building somewhat more attractive to run that, but they could put this anywhere in the City or anywhere else outside the City. And this is a vacant building at this point, and it's a blighting influence because of its vacant nature.
If the wage tax is a deterrent for businesses to develop in Philadelphia and there's difficulty getting people 31 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 to work in Philadelphia because of the wage tax, is the TIF an overriding factor to continue to build, to develop here, as opposed to going someplace else?
It helps them mitigate the wage tax. It is not the solution for the problem that the wage tax causes employees and employers, as they see that as a reason. What the TIF does is, it makes the e-commerce space more economical for start-up e-commerce businesses, that makes it an attraction, an incentive to come into the City by having this. Presently, to bring e-commerce-type businesses in this market, the range is about $15 per square foot, is what the rent would be charged. That's the most you could charge. The economics of the project do not allow you to bring this building on line and make it available with fiber optics that will attract e-commerce businesses. So the TIF helps to keep that dollar amount to improve the building at a marketable rate to result in a $15-per-square-foot rental.
If I remember 32 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 correctly, last week, there was some discussion about the increase in square footage costs. If they are successful in attracting, would it be the commercial space on the first floor or some other space? If they got a per-square footage increase, they would accelerate the payment of the --
Councilwoman, that's exactly what we said last week. We said that if the rents go up by more than 5 percent a year above the $15, there is "a claw-back provision," as call it, meaning that the difference of that $15 net increase -- say it's $1 per square foot, 50 percent of that, 50 cents of that would be used per square foot to pay down the TIF note so that the note would be completely repaid that much sooner if the rents go above the 5 percent increase per year on $15 per square foot.
Could we take that instead of accelerating the TIF note, could we take that and put those dollars in a youth fund?
I don't, believe under the State Act, we can we can do that with TIF revenue. It only could be used to pay off a TIF note or pay for infrastructure within the TIF 33 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 District.
Now, you stated that they could accelerate the payment of the TIF note. I noticed that the TIF exists for a 20-year period. Is there any reason why we couldn't lower the period and instead of having years, have 15 8 or 10 on the TIF note? 9
We have done that on other 10 projects when the economics warrant that. We've 11 tried that on a housing project, known as St. 12 James Court, that this Council's approved. We did 13 it for 12 years. However, the economics were too 14 tight on that project and that project has not 15 closed, the financing has not closed yet. 16 So when it is feasible, we do provide 17 the provision to pay off the note early. And if 18 the revenue is there, it will occur, the TIF 19 revenue. But we try and keep it at 20 years 20 because the economics always warrant that a 20-year term, and many times a longer term, but under the Act, we can't create that and a longer term than 20 years is needed.
Okay, thank you very much. 34 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Mr. Fina, you recall last week's conversation about the types of jobs created by these various TIFs. Over the last seven or eight years, some are on the lower end of the pay scale and some are on the higher end?
Yeah. Most of them -- many of the TIFs were used to create hotel jobs, and although there's a vast diversity of jobs in the hotels, the majority of those jobs at hotels are low- to moderate-income-paying jobs.
And where would these fall, these types of jobs created?
The e-commerce telecommunications business are the higher end of the pay scale, from everything we understand.
And can you give me an approximate of the average wage? Maybe the 35 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 developer can help us. A guesstimate.
Okay. These jobs that will be created, hopefully, by the Networks, are these jobs currently in the City of Philadelphia by and large? Or will these be jobs that will be created above baseline?
New jobs. And paying approximately $75,000 per job, we're talking about a substantial increase in the wage tax that we will create?
Yes. We've projected that based on our analysis that there will be -- no, all City wage tax -- all City taxes we project new to be $2.1 million per year, 2.1 million per 36 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 year.
Wage tax alone could be -- over the years, we projected -- and, again, 6 this is an estimate -- $40.6 million over 20 7 years. 8
So realistically -- 11 and I understand that you're not a member of the 12 School Board or necessarily with the 13 Administration. Realistically, we could maybe 14 have 2 million of those dollars in the foreseeable 15 future go towards the School District, 'cause we 16 often -- particularly here of late -- have been 17 asked to contribute to the School District out of 18 the City's General Fund. 19
Well, certainly that is 20 within the province of this Council and the Administration to determine how much money out of the General Fund would go to the School District.
How much would the U-and-O generate? I'm sorry, Councilman. 37 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221
The U-and-O taxes -- presently, there are no U-and-O taxes being paid on the building. Over the years, there will be 7 $22.2 million of use-and-occupancy tax. That does 8 go to the School District directly, all 100 9 percent of that. 10
Thank you, Mr. 13 Fina. Thank you, Madam President. 14
Thank you. 15 The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode. 16
Thank you, Madam 17 President. 18 Mr. Fina, I'm in complete agreement 19 with Councilman Kenney about the fact that we have 20 a poor tax structure here, that we are not 21 competitive with regard to tax structure, but it 22 is my understanding also that this Council has only approved 19 projects with TIFs; is that correct?
So giving a tax break to business has done nothing to change 4 the environment for the other businesses 5 throughout Philadelphia; is that correct? 6
I couldn't agree with that, 7 Councilman. I think the environment has 8 improved. If you take a look at the Loews and 9 PSFS Hotel, that was a TIF. The Marriott 10 Courtyard was a TIF, the Marriott Headhouse was a 11 TIF. There are three hotels that have huge impact 12 on Center City and other businesses, as well as 13 job creation and taxes for the City. 14
Essentially, if 18 you've only given 19 TIFs, and we're assuming 19 there's been jobs created by those projects, there are many other projects, many other businesses that located in Philadelphia because of its location, because of its market, without the need to forego tax dollars to finance those projects. Beyond that, any business or any major developer coming into this town to do business is going to 39 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 assume that Philadelphia's less competitive and is going to request a TIF. Because once a TIF has been give, people are going to keep asking for TIFs. My question really is now -- I have some information based on an article written about months ago, that this City has done $185 9 million in TIFs. I'm assuming at this point that 10 it could be upwards of a quarter of a billion 11 dollars. Do you know what figure we've done in 12 terms of foregoing taxes, just from doing TIFs? 13
I have that information. I 14 may not have it with me today at this point, but I 15 have it in my office.
And I asked that question last week. At what point are we, quote/unquote TIFed out? At what point do we realize that the U.S. economy is generally good, things have moved somewhat economically in Philadelphia, there are many projects that do not require TIFs and exist and thrive with the existing tax structure.
I agree with you, there are many projects that do. At any given time, PIDC's 40 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 looking at maybe 100 different projects. People are coming for requests for financial assistance, and we evaluate those projects to determine whether that request is real or not.
Because, essentially, everyone is going to request a TIF, because no one is going to want to exist under this tax structure, but many businesses locate here, there's a market here where they could be profitable, they continue to make money, and don't necessarily require the TIFs.
And we do not provide TIFs to every business that requests those TIFs. We make an independent analysis to determine whether there is really a gap in financing that, without the TIF, the project would not proceed. And under that evaluation, we then determine whether a TIF is needed and the amount of TIF that's needed.
And how do you determine that? Do you require a refusal letter from a bank or other financial institution?
But do you require a 41 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 refusal letter from a private financing institution?
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.
Thank you, Madam President. First, I want to say that obviously I concur with all the statements made by my colleague Councilman Kenney. Councilmember Goode just mentioned something about all of the people who are going to come to Philadelphia or thinking about coming to Philadelphia who will obviously ask for TIFs. We have some cases, at least I think in four years I've been here, where there have been some companies that haven't required or requested a TIF, and I think -- is it Marriott; am I correct in that? One of the hotel chains, I think, if it was not Marriott --
The Sofftel was built and 42 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 opened without a TIF or without any --
Sheraton did request a TIF on Rittenhouse Square; we did not provide that TIF to the Sheraton.
But there are companies -- and my question is, are there companies or businesses that have come here that have not even requested a TIF?
So it's not necessarily that that's the only reason they're coming here, because TIFs are available.
That's correct. If you consider the number of businesses in the City of Philadelphia, only 19 have received TIFs to date, and that's going back 5 years.
Thank you. I think the other thing that is missing when we get into the discussion of TIFs is, we always speak to the number of jobs that are directly created by the TIF, and when you look at 43 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 the hotel industry, we look at the 4,000-plus jobs that have been created there, but we don't look at the other jobs that are the feeder industries into the hotel industry -- the linen companies, the food purveyors, the maintenance people, who, after the hotel is built, are brought in to maintain elevators and repair windows, that may not necessarily be employees of the hotel. I would probably suspect that it's very difficult to come up with a number of those jobs that are being created and maybe what the impact on existing businesses who are feeder industries into those businesses have to employ additional people. We don't look at those numbers, I guess, and maybe it's because we have no way of knowing. So in addition to those direct jobs, there may be hundreds of other jobs, if not thousands of jobs, that are being created.
Councilman, you are correct. I am not an economist, but economists would normally say that there are two indirect jobs for every one direct job created in any given industry, particularly some of the intensive employment that we have in TIF projects, that the 44 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 nature of those hotels, retail, those types of projects create a lot of indirect jobs, as will the e-commerce building that we're proposing to.
And I think the other thing that we sometimes maybe are not paying attention or losing sight of is the fact that when look at Networks and the potential for 1500 new jobs, there's going to be, I would assume, a significant amount of those people who are coming in to be employed that will become new residents of the City of Philadelphia. They will begin to occupy apartments, maybe purchase homes, and they will become a part of the fabric of the Philadelphia, they will become a part of the community. Their wages will be reinvested in our community. We have no way of knowing what that number will be or determining that, but I think it's fair to say that that will occur, and it has occurred.
Yes, I agree with you completely that it will occur. In fact, the very nature of e-commerce business and the people that work in there, I'm told -- you could use the words 45 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 a "little quirky," and I hope I don't offend anyone, but they like to live and very close in proximity of each other. They want to live near the place they're working, I'm told. They want to be able to have the 24-hour city available to them.
And I agree 'cause I've read some articles on that, and I know out in the King of Prussia area, I read about a year or two ago where the companies that have either left Philadelphia or other urban areas and relocated out to the suburbs because of the some of the advantages that were offered to them out there, they're having a problem with their employees, most of whom are young folks, who really enjoy the lifestyle of living and/or working in a city, and they actually started structuring social activities out in King of Prussia at some of the chain restaurants so that their employees wouldn't have to drive in to Philadelphia. Because when they're out, even though they're young and maybe could handle a little bit more of the night life than I can handle anymore, the productivity the next day was down. There was 46 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 a very scientific way of doing this. And after the third or fourth time that these folks go to these structured social environments, they tend to come back to the city anyway because they like the diversity. So what we're finding is, and I've been dealing with some of the e-commerce kind of companies on a smaller scale, they want to locate here, or if they're already here, they want to stay here and expand for the very reason that you just pointed out, that their employees want to live in the city, they want to stay in the city, they don't want to live in Suburbia. And I think this is an opportunity for us not only to create, again, those permanent jobs for the business, but to begin to maybe re-populate some of our neighborhoods with people who are now wage-earners. And there's this whole ripple effect that goes on. And I could recall -- and I think Council President Verna, there's a friend of mine who has one of the largest wholesale fish businesses at the Food Distribution Center. And for the last two or three years, he's been really 47 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 trying desperately to remain in the City of Philadelphia because he needed to expand. The State of New Jersey was offering to build him a new facility free of charge, put in roads coming off of the Jersey turnpike at the State's expense, just to get his business there, but he'd rather stay here. He used to live in Suburbia, he lives in Rittenhouse Square, he loves the City, his employees are here. He understands that if he leaves, he'll have a difficult time attracting employees to his business, but it was very tempting to him for a very long time, and still is very tempting for him to think about relocating because he doesn't have to pay for a building. He can get a free building and free roadways, and there were other tax advantages that they were going to give him in wages and everything else. So I think when we look at these things, we shouldn't just look at this box that we will call a hotel or a networks facility and what we are giving up, although I don't particularly agree with that term "giving up," because if we don't have anything, everything we get going 48 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 forward is a plus for us. And I think the other thing the people look at is when they look at these corporations and they look at the portfolio and they see the value of the portfolio and they're $300 million companies or whatever, everyone thinks that it's cash in pocket, that some big business person could just dump his or her money on the table and say, I'm going to build a hotel for $150 million, or I'm going to build a company and put out all my cash. They're no different than the rest of us. I mean, I never had $100,000 at my disposal at any given time, but even if I did, I don't believe that I would buy a house and buy it for cash. You do finance because there are reasons for that, there are advantages for that.
And when look at the tax abatement that we did a couple years ago, we understand that the ten-year exemption that we afford the developers, most of the 31 vacant buildings that are now being converted for residential uses would still be vacant. And I know many of those developers and they're wealthy -- at least compared to who I am 49 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 and what I have, they're very wealthy guys. But they couldn't make it work without that exemption. And I think we did a good thing. So some of what I just said is more in the line of a statement, I guess, than a question. But thank you, thank you, Madam President.
Thank you, Councilman. You know, as you were speaking, I couldn't help but think of the first TIF that we had, and that was for PNC.
And I think we had to do it three times before we got it right.
And I think that most of the Councilmembers were very skeptical about what we were doing. And I can tell you that that has been a wonderful success story. I believe they were thinking of moving out of the City. They have now completed Phase II of 50 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 PNC, and how many people do they now employ, Mr. Fina? Do you know, off the top of your head?
I believe 1500 seems to be the number there. There were 1100 initially, and I think there was a 400-increase with Phase II. And, also, there's been a huge development boom that occurred around that business ever since it went in there -- restaurants and hotels that we did not assist in any way. I think there are seven new developments of hotels or restaurants that have occurred since the PNC Bank Operations Center moved to the airport area.
Mm-hmm, thank you. At this time, the Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Madam President. Suburbia is boring, very boring. And I think Councilman Kenney's statement about our tax structure is correct, but the issue is not whether one TIF or two TIFs or one or the other has been successful, because some of them have. The issue 51 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 is overall, what is the return on the investment? And I think we act here as a corporate board. We are giving away in essence some economic benefits to corporations, and we have to begin asking if there is a return on the investment for us, for the City. I haven't seen the impact of any TIFs on the Barrio, I haven't seen the unemployment rate in the Barrio go down. Over the last 8 years that we have been giving TIFs, over 155,000 people have left the City, okay? And I know that some people have gotten employment. The issue is, what is the economic impact overall in terms of the City, what is the return on the investment? Does it create more new taxes, does it stimulate new private investment? And I don't see any empirical proofs of that. And if you have it, please let us see it. You know, I want to see in data, because we have gone through a process already of enough TIFs over the last eight years in which we should have, we should have proof of the economic social impact of these taxes. And if we don't -- that should be the 52 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 return on investment, that's what you should be talking about right now, not in hypothetical terms. Because all I heard from my colleagues and everybody else is hypotheticals, no proof, no 6 empirical aspects as to the return on investment. And I'd like to see that. I would like to see what has been that return. And, Mr. Fina, if you have it, please let us see it.
I can get those calculations. We've had -- so far 19, TIFs have been approved, 8 have closed, the most recent, last week. So the oldest one is the one that Council President noted, which is the PNC, which you approved five years ago.
Thank you. 53 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Fina, I needed have to follow up to a couple questions raised by Councilman Darrell Clarke, where I didn't hear the answer. How many new jobs did you say are being created by the TIF in front of us?
And you mentioned that the average salary will be 75,000.
That's what the developer believes the average salary of these type businesses will be.
Currently, as TIF packages are constructed, are there provisions in the plan that stipulate that a percentage or X-number of jobs should be set aside for Philadelphia residents, since Philadelphia is indeed the providing the tax incentive?
No. We don't require that language for Philadelphia residents to be hired. 54 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 We've found out in our experience, particularly the hotels, that the vast majority of projects that are TIFed is Philadelphia residents.
Councilman Nutter requested last week a report from Mr. Hankowsky. Since we're now at 19, he stipulated several categories.
Add to that, if you will, of those that are active, you mentioned eight? What percentage of those jobs, what number of those jobs are Philadelphia residents?
Eight have closed, and we can find that information out. I believe that's what Councilman Nutter had asked for.
Okay. Now, since that's not currently a provision, does it make sense for those of you who sit around the table and craft these deals that that should be a provision?
Well, each developer provides an economic opportunities plan that is negotiated with City Council staff and the developer. In that plan, it does talk about 55 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 voluntary goals for not only affirmative action but for local employment. So that is part of what we do today.
That being what it is, then, does -- example, the Convention Center became a reality X-number of years ago. Those that sat around the table and negotiated that plan made sure that in this specific instance, Philadelphia OIC (Opportunities Industrialization Center) had within it a track, if you will. People who did not have those skills were put on a track to ensure employment opportunity at the end of that and the completion of the Philadelphia Convention Center. Are those kinds of discussions had when the developer comes to you? We're told we're looking here at $75,000 jobs. Assuming we can't find all those people in Philadelphia, is there a link then with a higher education institution where you can ensure that those jobs go to Philadelphia residents?
Well, again, there is the economic opportunities plan. In this particular TIF, as I mentioned in my testimony, there is a 56 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 relationship that is being formed with Spring Garden -- with Community College on Spring Garden Avenue, that the employers will have access and the students at the Community College will have access to the jobs that are offered at the Networks. We're trying to create that unique situation with this particular TIF.
That's encouraging. Is that the norm or is that the exception?
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to respond, if I can, to Councilwoman Reynolds Brown's question. It may not be the norm as it relates to the arrangements between the university institution and a developer/employer, but it's the norm for the 5th Councilmatic District. We sat down with both the developer, we sat down with the 57 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 new president and one of the assistants from Community College, and we talked about at this point, an informal arrangement. One of the things that was attractive about this particular development is that Community College had already started in a process that was going to be to provide somewhat of a feeder system to these high-paying e-commerce-related jobs. And lo and behold, we found a developer who was willing to locate adjacent to Community College, so it was a match made in heaven, so to speak. So I think we're going to craft some formal language as we move ahead, although the developer cannot guarantee, because they are in fact just the developer, but we will craft some language that will allow opportunities for the tenants of this particular development to have a feeder system directly next door. So we have work very diligently on that.
It should be noted also for 58 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 the record that PIDC has always -- not only do we have a policy about the affirmative economic opportunities plan, but we also notify, which was the PIC, and now I believe it's Philadelphia Workforce Development Corporation, of every TIF that we close, and we make formal contact between the TIF developer and those agencies.
I appreciate that, and that counts. Making contact is one thing; the follow-through that comes with ensuring that something happens beyond that contact is another thing. And my hope is that in the report that your office is preparing for the Chair, at the request of our colleague Councilman Nutter, that it's reflected what happens after the contact is made with agencies that can exercise or practice the feeder approach that Councilman Clarke is talking about. Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
Thank you, Madam 59 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 President. Ever since the tax abatement for the Rittenhouse Hotel ten, twelve, fifteen years ago -- I don't remember how long it is, but it's quite a long time -- the City has either granted abatements or granted this newest version of what I think is the same basically as an abatement, the TIFs. Am I right in comparing abatements to TIFs in theory? And tell me how they differ, if they differ.
Well, you could define the TIF program as a 20-year real-estate tax abatement, providing those dollars go and pay for improvements within the property. So it's a form of abatement, yes, Councilman.
A basic question that I think Councilman Goode has been raising is the question of need. Is there an element of need related to the decision-making process as to whether or not you grant either an abatement or a TIF?
Whose need, and how do you define that need? 60 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221
We look at a project and the revenues and the cost of that project, the source of the funds for that project, and we determine what the market rate is for financing and what a return on equity would be. And then if there seems to be adequate revenue from the project, we will not propose a TIF. If there's adequate revenue to support debt and equity, if there is inadequate revenue to support debt and equity, as also stated by the developer in there request to us, and we make an independent calculation that that statement is correct, then we propose a TIF. So we do it on a need basis, on a financial analysis of the project, under current market conditions.
So need is limited to a particular project, not to the financial resources of the developer or the principal in the project who may or may not be the developer?
That's correct. In fact, Councilman DiCicco actually made that statement, that a project has to stand on its own merits, or someone will not make an investment. People are not going to invest in a project if there's not a 61 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 return for it -- no more than you and I would put money in a bank if there was no interest earned on that money. We wouldn't just deposit it in a bank if we could another bank that did offer us interest. So a developer will not invest in project unless there's a return. If there's an inadequate return and we the public, you, City Council, want the project to happen 'cause it's going to create 1500 jobs, it's going to create $2.1 million in City taxes every year and it's going to create 1.2 million of School District taxes every year, then we will incentivize that developer to do that by funding some of the gap that otherwise the developer would not fund and the project would not happen. That's the analysis we make.
See, on every project that's presented to us, PIDC, whether it's through you or Bill Hankowsky, can always made an excellent case. You have a basic command of the facts, you've dealt with the developer, you've investigated the situation. It's difficult to say no on any specific project. 62 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 But I wonder and worry about the general impact as to whether or not this is the City of Philadelphia making an investment, or whether it's the City of Philadelphia mortgaging its future. Because we do suffer, from one point of view, losses of tax revenue over the 20-year period. You argue that we make up for it by increased taxes in other situations. It seems to me that you also put every business, every developer in a bind. How come some other developer was able to get assistance from the City of Philadelphia in some form of tax rebate and you weren't it, if you are a developer or businessman that comes up with the project, you know, that indicates it can carry itself? It seems to me that you create a situation in which it's almost inevitable that the requests for these TIFs is going to be increasing. And I have a sense of unease about it, but in any one development, there's nothing we can do. I have a sense of unease, say, about the stadiums in using large public amounts of money to give to very rich people to make them even richer, if everything works out well. In the 63 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 same sense, I wonder whether we're not doing the same kind of thing here, that developers have to be, almost by definition, very good business people, and it seems to me that a developer who does not develop his plan so that he get any assistance is not a particularly good developer. And I just wonder about whether that makes sense to have two classes of business projects in the City: those that are subsidized by the public and those that aren't. And I worry about that. Are there any theoretical writings on this subject that you're familiar with? 'Cause I understand that Pennsylvania was not one of the first states that started on TIFs; there have been TIFs in a number of other states first. What is the thinking among the economists generally in the United States?
I think, like anything, Councilman, there are two schools of thought on it. There are those who think there should not be public assistance for businesses, and those who believe, like myself and members of PIDC, who believe that it is essential to have public 64 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 assistance to incentivize a business to come into the City to create the jobs and produce the taxes that are needed. We could look at the PSFS building. It was mostly vacant for a number of years. It was a blighting influence in Center City until we provided the incentives that brought the Tish family, who owns Loews, a very, very wealthy family, to Philadelphia to build that hotel. Yes, they expect to make a profit, and yes, we provided a TIF for that project, but for years, no one else could take on that project or wanted to take on that project to try to improve it. And we've created 500-plus jobs. Many of those jobs went to people on welfare to work who have been hired there. We've done -- there's a huge amount of taxes that are generated that does not go into the TIF Fund, that benefits the City from that project. It's a unique success. That's the type of projects that we fund with public assistance. And we do our best and analyze to make certain that it is on a need-basis. And, Councilman, you're right, we do not say yes to everyone. We've only had 19 TIFs 65 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 approved, others are before you. Over a term of five years, that's not a lot of projects in the City of Philadelphia. We do not say yes to every business, every developer or every development. Sometimes there are developments that will happen without us saying yes and sometimes those projects do not get built, but we do not say yes to every development.
Well, one last basic comment. Yesterday's Sunday Inquirer carried a feature story on a developer that I had never heard about before, a person who's name is apparently is Tony Goldman. And it was a very interesting story. This is a developer who apparently began in New York, then in Miami Beach, and in the last two years, he came to Philadelphia. And it was a very impressive story about -- kind of on the good side of what he did in these cities, and now he's coming to Philadelphia. And I couldn't help but wonder whether what's attracted him to Philadelphia is the sudden knowledge throughout maybe the whole country that Philadelphia's a good place to go because the 66 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 government is ready to give you very substantial savings or will become a partner kind of in your project, but let you have all the profits. And as I read the story, it told about how kind of brilliant he was, how creative, how unique in his thinking, and he's working, apparently, on a series of projects on 13th Street, between Walnut and Chestnut, and he developed the off-Broad Street approach. And it was very impressive to me. I thought, Well, maybe I've been a little wrong about developers; there's room for creativity and uniqueness. And then in the new section of the Inquirer, I noticed that despite his off-Broad Street approach, he just purchased the Divine Hotel, right on Broad Street. And that seemed to me to be reflective of developers. They always -- and they have to be to be successful, they always have a good justification for the policy that makes a lot of sense. But when you look for consistency, you don't find it. And so I wonder here whether the real situation is, are they milking the City of Philadelphia or are they producing good benefits? 67 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 I worry about the points that Councilman Ortiz made. If it was so good and we've been so generous over the last eight, ten, twelve or more years on these abatements, why is it that there's such a heavy net loss in population and a loss in the number of businesses? And so I'm troubled by that, and I hope that in your analysis, the need that you look for is a real need, that you're really convinced that the project would not be able to get off the ground, you know, or be successful without this aid, 'cause I think we're paying a heavy price, and I don't know how you're going to resist the heavy demands the more it gets to be known that Philadelphia has kind of an open approach on these TIFs. Thank you. Like Councilman DiCicco, maybe the last comment was a comment and not really a question. But we would like that information and we'd like it -- we'd like to be able to challenge it so that if it's accurate, it stands up; and if not, all of us benefit from the knowledge that there have to be changes in the way we address the 68 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 program. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Madam President. Let me take this time to agree with Councilman DiCicco, that all developers coming to town looking to develop major projects have not looked toward TIFs. PIDC's preferred clientele has also had access to hundreds of millions of dollars in HUD 108 financing borrowed against future community development block grant dollars, and they've also has access to up to $100 million and more in economic stimulus fund. My question today is whether TIFs are actually necessary. And beyond that, looking at economic stimulus programs, those economic stimulus dollars. If we're going to forego hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenue, looking to economic stimulus dollars on top of that, what type of impact could have been had in providing tax relieve across the board? That's a 69 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 question not only asked by me, but by PICA and the City Controller, and analyze the way PIDC has wheeled and dealed with tax dollars over the last five to eight years. That was a question.
What type of impact would we have had if had used those hundreds of millions of dollars, knowing we were going to forego tax revenue and a hundred million dollars in economic stimulus, that what type of impact would it have had if we had used up a general tax relief for businesses across the board?
I think $100 million is a lot of money, Councilman. It sounds like a lot to me.
Not a hundred million. It is at least $300 million in HUD 108. There was $100 million in economic stimulus. There is, by any estimation, I don't know, 2 to 300 million in TIF. The HUD 108 could be used for access to capital beyond that. The other dollars could have been used, if there was an actual economic development strategy that was not a 70 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 deal-by-deal basis but actually an economic development strategy for general tax relief for businesses. What type of impact would that have had if that had been employed instead of the TIF strategy and the economic stimulus program strategy?
We haven't done it either or, but HUD 108 could not be used for a tax relief and --
I said if HUD 108 were to be used for access to capital. Beyond that, the TIFs and the economic stimulus dollars amount to hundreds of millions of dollars that could have been used for general tax relief. Would that have been a better use of the dollars?
Well, the TIF can't be used for tax relief other than for the specific --
It can be if you decide long-term you're going to forego a certain amount of hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenue. And at that point, you could cut taxes for businesses, knowing you're going to forego that tax revenue, and that's general tax relief 71 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 for businesses across the board. Would that or would that not have been a better strategy than helping or so businesses 5 and projects? 6
We do not believe that would 7 have been a better strategy, Councilman. 8
Councilman 11 Kenney, you are going to be brief, I hope? 12
Just despite all 15 this, I think really good and well-intentioned and 16 civil and decent debate philosophically about all 17 of these issues, which are very, very important, I 18 don't want the people in the room to lose site of 19 the fact that the developers at Networks, we want 20 you here, we're happy you're coming. We want you 21 to develop, we want you to create those jobs, and 22 we'll figure all of this out as we go forward in 23 this Council. 24 But I don't want you to sit here, while 25 listening to this well-intentioned and important 72 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221 debate think that we don't want you here. We really do. We're excited and enthused that you have chosen Philadelphia, that this is a forward-thinking project, that the jobs you're going to create are well-paid and high-tech and maybe is going to put Philadelphia on the map, similar to what Delaware did with its banking business. And, hopefully, you'll be one of the cornerstones of having that happen. But I just didn't want you to sit here and hear this and think that we didn't want you here. Thanks.
And I would like to echo your sentiments. We certainly welcome you and hope you'll be very successful, because if you're successful, we'll be successful with you. Thank you.
Madam President, I'd like to share the same sentiment. As one of those that are debating whether TIFs are an advisable thing, I also join in welcoming the company. We look forward to -- 73 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - BILL 000221
Yeah. Well, I just wanted to make sure that both sides of the debate are expressing that, but we welcome the --
Which we will take, I'm sure, another day when the next TIF comes up.
Madam President, I thank you and members of Council. I also wanted to recognize my colleague sitting beside me, Sam Rhoads, who's very instrumental in the TIF program at PIDC. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you, Sam. And, Mr. Fina, I understood you to say that the amendments are in the Chief Clerk's Office?
Yes, they are. The restated and revised project plan for all four that we've discussed so far.
Great. Are there any other questions from any 74 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 members of the committee? (No further questions.)
We will now consider Resolution No. 230, and I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the title of the resolution.
Resolution No. 320, confirming the appointment of Kenneth I. Trujillo, Esquire, as City Solicitor. (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning. 75 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320
Good morning, distinguished members of Council. My name is Kenneth I. Trujillo, and I am serving as acting City Council -- not an acting City Councilperson. (Laughter.)
I'm acting City Solicitor for the City of Philadelphia. Seated next to me, to the left of me is Donna Mouzayck. Donna is my First Deputy. And to my right is Bill 11 Thompson. Bill Thompson is the Acting Chair of the Litigation Group. First, it's an extraordinary honor for me to appear before you here today, seeking confirmation as City Solicitor for the City of Philadelphia. In the short time that I've served as acting City Solicitor and throughout my career, I've come to value the central role that the Law Department serves in city government. I believe and I am hopeful that I've become sensitive to the often competing interests and the competing roles that the Home Rule Charter seeks to balance through the City Solicitor's Office. I have prepared testimony, which, I believe, has been distributed to all Council. I 76 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 am going to skip significant portions of that in the interest of leaving here today. I have attempted to meet with each member of Council, and I've been largely successful in setting up those meetings, and I'd like to thank all of you for your courtesy during that time. I'd also like to, before I complete my testimony, recognize a number of other people who are seated here today. In addition to Miss Mouzayck and Mr. Thompson, I'd like to recognize Irvin R. Siegel, who is seated over to my far right-hand side. Mr. Siegel was a senior partner at the Schnader, Harrison, Siegel & Louis law firm, and was my mentor and taught me more about practicing law than I could ever have hoped to have done, and I thank for him for all of his extraordinary mentorship. I'd also like to recognize -- seated behind me about four rows back on the left-hand side is Bill Martin, who was the acting City Solicitor in January and February of this year, before I came, and was Chair of the Corporate Department. He provided an extraordinary service 77 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 for the City while he was here. He recently left to go into private practice, but I would like to publicly thank him for all of his support and his assistance during my transition into the Law Department. I'd also like to recognize the members of Law Department who are here and present here today. As most of you know, the Law Department is an extraordinary place, and I've felt so welcome and made at home since I've come to the City, and I greatly appreciate their support, and they're being here today. And, finally, I'd like to recognize the person who really ends up paying the price of public service, and that is my wife Laura Trujillo, who's seated far, far in the back and, I'm sure, will duck as I recognize her, but I would like to publicly thank my wife, Laura, who truly does exemplify public service because, as many of you know, when you make the sacrifice for public services, most often it's the spouse that makes the sacrifice.
Excuse me. Let me also note that State Representative Dwight 78 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 Evans was also here all morning, waiting for this moment.
Yes. I saw State Represent Evans, and thank you very much. During my visits, I tried to familiarize most of you with a little bit of my background, so I'm going to skip the largely boring parts of that, but I do note that I was born -- and I adopted Philadelphia, but I was born in northern New Mexico and came here by way of the University of Pennsylvania and became a hopeless addict of cheese steaks and the Philadelphia Phillies, and so I ended up in Philadelphia by way of law school, and I am deeply grateful to the University of Pennsylvania. My goal for the Law Department during my time as City Solicitor, if I am confirmed by this body, is to provide you and to provide the rest of our clients with the highest possible quality legal services and representation. I share with my predecessors a commitment to providing outstanding client service. Notwithstanding the inevitable conflicts that arise, the Law Department will serve the needs of 79 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 its client and will do so in a timely and constructive manner. As I've discussed with many of you, I intend to bring an affirmative and entrepreneurial mindset to the Law Department. It is most uncomfortable to me to always be in a defensive mindset, and those of you who know my practice and my background know that I prefer to be on the plaintiff's side. Accordingly, both with respect to litigation matters and business matters, I am hopeful that we will bring an entrepreneurial mindset and an affirmative mindset to represent the interests of the City of Philadelphia. One example of those types of matters that we recently filed was the handgun lawsuit recently in April of this year. Similarly, the Law Department will continue to investigate legal avenues for the redress of any harms caused to the citizens of Philadelphia, be they financial or otherwise. In addition, given the extraordinary changes that this body has already noted on many occasions in our economy and in the technological advances of our economy, the intellectual property 80 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 components of the Law Department must continue to grow and will play a leading role in city government, and we hope to partner with the rest of city government and with this body in that regard. With respect to City Council's relationship with the Law Department, I have tried in my short time to be responsive to all requests from City Council. You are entitled to prompt and courteous service whenever any advice is requested. And as any of you who have dealt with me know, if there's any issue with respect to any matter in the Law Department, I'm always available to discuss those matters with you. As I had mentioned to you in my testimony back in February of this year, all requests for legal advice remain confidential unless and until we are authorized to disclose that advice. City Council will also have the services of the Law Department in connection with the drafting or exploring of any legislation. If there are any reservations about the legality of the provisions of any ordinance, we will raise them with the Councilperson that has requested the 81 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 advice, and we will explain any potential issues. We will further suggest alternative grounds and alternative methods to accomplish the goals of any ordinance that is suggested by a City Council person. When City Council adopts legislation, it is entitled to the presumption of validity. We will continue to decline to approve a bill on the grounds of invalidity only in the clearest of cases. In those rare cases, I would generally approve a request by City Council for the retention of City Council to test the legality of the bill by way of litigation. In closing, I am extraordinarily honored to be before you here today, and I commit to you that if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed by you, I will work diligently with you and I will do my best for you and for the City of Philadelphia.
I will be happy to answer any questions or supply any additional information. And, Madam President, I would also note that Stephen Presser, the Legal Director of the ACLU, would also like to address this body after 82 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 my comments.
Thank you. Can you tell us how many attorneys are employed by the Law Department?
Our total budgeted number is 143, so we'd have 6 vacancies at this time.
Are there particular areas of law in which the Law Department lacks expertise so as to require the use of outside counsel? And if so, is it your intention to try to develop such expertise within the Law Department, or do you intend to continue to rely on outside counsel?
That depends. There are a number of areas. For instance, there are regulatory matters which will arise and which will arise on an occasional basis and which the development of inside expertise would be far more expensive than going to outside counsel. So for 83 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 regulatory matters, a number of municipal finance matters, we will always need to go to outside counsel for those matters. The other kinds of matters that are typically going to need to be referred to outside counsel would be, A, sensitive litigation matters in which there is, for instance, a witness that is -- let's say a Law Department employee may be a witness. There are also going to be a number of matters in which a conflict of interest may arise. For instance, if we represent a police officer or something of the sort and there are multiple defendants, we would need to go to outside counsel in that regard.
Some areas of the law are undergoing particularly rapid change, such as the law relating to telecommunications and computer law. Do you anticipate the need for additional staffing in these or in any other areas?
The two areas that I have identified as requiring additional attention, and we expect in the future additional staffing, are exactly one -- is the area that you just 84 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 recognized; that is the high-tech or intellectual property, the IT area. And I think, as this Council has noted recently, a number of vendors are going to be coming in front of Council, and there's a significant change with the Telecommunications Act of 1996, which is a complex act, and which has a very direct impact on city government. So my expectation is that the, quote, high-tech area, or intellectual property area, is an area where we will need to grow. In addition, it is my expectation, and this may be done partly by reallocation of current personnel, but the affirmative litigation area, that is where the City is out as a plaintiff as opposed to a defendant, that is another area where I believe that the Law Department, during my term at least, will need to have additional personnel on the affirmative litigation side.
How do you describe your management style? Do you tend to delegate or are you a micromanager? (Laughter.)
I think I would leave 85 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 that to everybody who works for me right now to describe. But I'd be happy to tell you how I normally try to work. Jane Collins, my secretary, is here, and she's probably the best one to either affirm or deny this, but my desire on any given day is that any piece of paper that hits my desk, I take the advice of Allen Davis, who is the former City Solicitor, and I try to leave a clean desk at the end of the day. I am clearly not successful at that, but that is my goal. I believe that I am much more of a delegator than a micromanager and, indeed, my expectation and what I try very hard to accomplish is to utilize all of the talents of the 137, soon 143, lawyers to their fullest ability. One thing I do recognize is that most of the lawyers that work in the Law Department know more about city government and about their area of expertise than. And I do I do our clients no favor by trying to usurp any of their abilities. So in that regard, I do consider myself to be much more of a delegator. I do, though, in the areas I think I'm 86 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 somewhat experienced, such as complex litigation areas, I do become a bit more, shall we say, inclusive; or at least I just become more involved in some of the litigation matters, and on the corporate areas is where I probably tend to delegate even more.
I know you said that you have 137 attorneys in the Law Department. Those attorneys that are in the chamber, if they would stand, I would like the record to reflect that probably half of them are here, I assume to really -- (Applause.)
-- encourage your appointment. And are the other gentlemen also attorneys, or are you here to testify, those of you who are seated?
Oh, they're friends, okay. You have quite a team here cheering for you.
We have a few foes as 87 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 well.
Okay. You know, there has always been a concern that the City Solicitor, who is required to provide legal advice for both the Administration and the legislative branches of city government, tends more often than not to favor the Administration on questions of administrative versus legislative concerns are made. Since it is your duty to provide impartial legal advice to City Council, do you require that all requests for legal advice go through you, or do you allow the Mayor's Office to direct the legal work to the Law Department?
When the Mayor's Office requests legal advice, I certainly allow them to direct the advice that they seek, that's all. I think I've actually been put in an unusual position of having opinions sought by members of this body over the last few months, the results of which have surprised a few people. But the -- as I have stated -- on my first day of work, I appeared before this body, and on my first day of work, I told members of this body that any advice that was sought by a 88 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 City Councilperson, even the mere seeking of the advice, I view to be a confidential communication, and that that communication is not shared with anyone, absent permission by the client. And, so, the final part of your question was, do I allow the Mayor's Office to direct advice given? The answer is no. I -- only with respect to their advice is their direction, but with respect to advice to members of this body, there is no direction and, in fact, no, because they don't know about it.
Very good to hear that response, and I'm sure that Councilman Cohen is elated by it. Are you not, Councilman? (Laughter.)
Can you tell us what the amount of Class 200 appropriations in the Law Department's budget is?
I do not have the exact number here today, I'm sorry, but we can provide that to you, obviously.
Well, I would like you to provide us that information. And of that amount, how much is used for the employment 89 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 of outside counsel? And what are the hourly rates paid to the outside counsel? And if any attorneys are hired on contingency fees. And would you also inform us as to what, from your experience, is considered to be a reasonable hourly fee for qualified attorneys in the private sector? I don't want to dominate the hearings. We do have other Councilmembers who want to be recognized. Councilman Ortiz, your light's been on. Councilman Rizzo, did you want to be recognized? Excuse me, I think you want to be excused?
Yes. First of all, I would like to congratulate the City Solicitor, and I'd like to vote yes on all of the resolutions and amendments today before the Council.
Yes. And the City Solicitor mentioned that when he first got here, he became addicted to cheese steaks and the Phillies. One of his first opinions I'd like to 90 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 have is the future of the Phillies. (Laughter.)
And, Councilman, with regard to the TIF bill, are you voting aye on the TIF bill?
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I know Mr. Trujillo now ever since he was an attorney at the U.S. Attorney's Office, and that's going back quite a lot, and that friendship has gone through many nights at Tequilla's Restaurant in discussion of political issues and other relevant matters. But Ken is probably one of the finest attorneys presented to us and one of the youngest attorneys in terms of being City Solicitor. And, hopefully, one of the questions 91 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 that I usually ask City Solicitors will be the last time that I ask this question. How many Latino attorneys do you have? And should we expect to see more Latino members as part of the staff of the City Solicitor's? And will Latino attorneys in private practice be a part of the individuals who will be put into the selection process for contracting out of cases and so on? And I hope that this is the last time that I ever have to ask this question of a City Solicitor, and I know that that will be so. Can you give me an answer on that?
I'm not going to object to the question; I'm going to happily answer that question. When I started -- the day of February 27th, there were 0 Latino lawyers at the Law Department. On February 28th, I was the first. About three weeks after that, Milton Vellas (ph.) joined our office. I am going to continue, as you can imagine, in fact, even at the Hispanic National 92 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 Bar Convention this year, which, by the way, Philadelphia will be hosting that convention next year. I'm going to continue to recruit and do everything I can to broaden the diversity, not just with respect to Latinos, but with all other minority groups. And the Law Department does have a significant history and, I think, a very successful history of diversity, but that diversity, as you've noted, does not include Latinos.
It does not include Latinos. And so, obviously, that's an area that we need to do a better job on. I'm hopeful that I might have a little bit of influence on that front. On the outside counsel role, again, I will tell you that I have reached out, even from my first day of work, to try to refer, and I will continue to do that, and we will continue to refer out work that can be handled by minority lawyers, whether they be minority lawyers in large law 93 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 firms, whether they be small law firms, or individual practitioners. But you will see in the report on Class 200 funding for over the next year some names with Hispanic last names.
Madam Chair, I can only recommend to my colleagues that a unanimous vote be given to Mr. Trujillo for the position of City Solicitor. I know that Councilman Cohen will some questions to ask, but I have no questions as to his ability to exercise the role and to do it in a manner that will make us all proud and will bring honor to the office. So, again, I ask my colleagues to give a "yes" vote to a friend of mine that I think will be a great City Solicitor.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Thank you. Good morning, and I enjoy meeting with you and I wish you well. I just have one issue to raise with you that has been brought to my attention, and it's 94 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 something that you don't have to respond to now but could look at in your office. I have a person who attempted to buy a building, and their concern was that there was no one person in the Law Department dedicated to the final closings of these housing -- if it's a City-owned building and the building is being sold or given to a community group or a nonprofit, there does not appear to be any one person who might be dedicated to that process, that they could go to any other lawyers in the Department. And that's the issue that I was trying to raise with you some time ago.
Okay. Well, thank you. I appreciate that, Councilwoman, and I believe Henry Schwartz, who's the head of our Real Estate Department is right behind me, and we will get a response back to you and we will look into that immediately.
Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee? 95 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 (Councilman Cohen turns indicates he has a question or comment.)
I would have been very disappointed, Councilman.
Thank you, Madam President. I'm probably going to disappoint everybody because my vote's going to be for Mr. Trujillo, and I am very confident that he will be an outstanding City Solicitor. I hope that he is able to move the Department ahead in considering certain matters where this Council often has been unhappy with City Solicitors, whoever they are, because it has seemed to us over time and consistently that whenever there has been an issue between the City Solicitor and the Mayor -- between the City Council and the Mayor, the City Solicitor has seen himself or herself as the representative of the Mayor. We know that that's a natural development that occurs, because most of 96 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 the time, you are probably working on matters affecting the Administration much beyond the matter of what to do for City Council. But I would hope that in interpreting the legality of actions taken by City Council, that what you've said about the presumption of legality is kept seriously, because we have -- at least speaking for myself, it has been has not been my thought that City Solicitors generally presume City Council's actions to be legal unless that's okay with the Mayor. But if ever the Mayor's unhappy, it seems the City Solicitors generally tend to find in favor of the Mayor. I did want to question in a very recent matter that I discussed with your office involving the prosaic matter of a newsstand. In the opinion you've given to me, there was a statement that the client of the City of Philadelphia was the government of the City and not the people in the City, and that's distressing, and I would hope that that would be looked at in the future. We hope that you're going to try to do an impossible job that the Home Rule Charter places you under because, obviously, it's 97 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 extraordinarily difficult in matters where Council and the Mayor disagree for the City Solicitor to be the attorney for both, and that's going to be a very difficult matter for you to resolve, but that's the fault of the Home Rule Charter and not the fault of the City Solicitor. But we wish you success, and we're looking forward to a period of peace between the Mayor and the City Council, as far as the City Solicitor's Office itself is concerned -- maybe not on the stadium issue or other issues, but on the basic issues. So welcome. And, Councilman Ortiz, unless there's somebody else that's going to object, you will have the unanimous vote for the City Solicitor. Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee? (No questions.)
Seeing none, do we have anyone else to testify on this 98 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 resolution? (Witness comes forward.)
Madam President, my name is Stephen Presser, and I'm the Legal Director of ACLU of Pennsylvania. And I thank the Council and also my colleague Kenneth Trujillo for this opportunity. I came today for one reason, and I'm going to add a second. The first is to urge you, as you seem likely now, to vote unanimously for Mr. Trujillo's ascension as City Solicitor. I think both his background, large law firm, United States Justice Department, the creator of a law firm, makes him uniquely well-qualified for this position. But further, the breadth of his intelligence, the depth of his compassion, and also his gentle good humor will make him, I'm firmly convinced, if not the finest City Solicitor we've ever had, then surely one of them. But, Madam President, I would like just very briefly to pick up on an issue you first raised, and that was the issue of outside counsel. I commend to this City Council, for instance, one of the soon-to-be-new City 99 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - RES. 000320 Solicitor's underlings, Carlton Johnson. He's a spectacular employee of the City Law Department, and has been so for some time. He runs the Civil Rights Unit. On several occasions in litigation I have been fortunate enough to be a party to, he's made what I think are important contributions, which, if accepted, would have cured Constitutional problems and also moved agencies on in creative ways. Unfortunately, in some of that litigation, previous City Solicitors had retained outside counsel. And sometimes I think there's been a tension between adopting good policies, which might have cut off litigation, which might have cut off the retention of these outside individuals. And I do think this is something that the new City Solicitor needs to take a good look at, and I commend you for having raised it and I commend this City Council for what I am sure will be a unanimous vote on his new position. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Do we have anyone else to testify on 100 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - PUBLIC MEETING this resolution? (No response.)
Seeing none, this will conclude our public hearing. We will now go into our public meeting. And the Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke regarding Bill No. 000221.
I make a motion that the amendments to Bill 221, as mentioned in today's testimony, be adopted. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that the amendments be adopted. And I understand the Chief Clerk's Office has a copy of that amendment in her office. All in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed. The ayes have it and the motion is carried. And the Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Madam Chair, I move that Bill 221, as amended, be reported out of 101 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - PUBLIC MEETING committee with a favorable recommendation. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 221 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, as amended. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed?
The record will show that Councilman Goode voted no. And this bill will be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco regarding Resolution 000192.
Thank you, Madam President. I move for the adoption of Resolution 20 No. 192. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution No. 000192 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. 102 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - PUBLIC MEETING All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the motion is carried. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco regarding Bill No. 000193.
Thank you, Madam President. I move for the adoption of Resolution 11 193. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution No. 000193 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the motion is carried. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco regarding Resolution No. 000194.
I move for the adoption of Resolution No. 194. 103 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - PUBLIC MEETING (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution No. 000194 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the motion is carried. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco regarding Resolution No. 000195.
Thank you, Madam President. I move for the adoption of Resolution 16 195. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution No. 000195 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. All in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the motion is 104 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - PUBLIC MEETING carried. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco regarding Resolution No. 000196.
Thank you, Madam President. I move for the adoption of resolution 7 196. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution No. 000196 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the motion is carried. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco regarding Resolution No. 1197.
Thank you, Madam President. I move for the adoption of Resolution 22 197. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution No. 000197 be 105 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - PUBLIC MEETING reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. All in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the motion is carried. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco regarding Resolution No. 000198.
Thank you, Madam President. I move for the adoption of Resolution 13 198. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution No. 000198 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. All in favor identify signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the motion is carried. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco regarding Resolution No. 000199. 106 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - PUBLIC MEETING
Thank you, Madam President. I move for the adoption of Resolution 4 199. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution No. 000199 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the motion is carried. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell regarding Resolution No. 000230.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that Resolution No. 230 be adopted. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution No. 000230 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. All in favor will signify by saying 107 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - PUBLIC MEETING aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the motion is carried. (Applause.)
I'd like to continue, please. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney regarding Resolution No. 000329.
Madam Chair, I move that Resolution No. 329 be approved. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution No. 000329 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the motion is carried. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney regarding Resolution No. 000330.
Madam Chair, I move 108 5/22/00 WHOLE COMM. - PUBLIC MEETING that Resolution No. 330 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution No. 000330 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it and the motion is carried. This concludes the public meeting of the Committee of the Whole. Thank you all very much. (Adjourned at 12:10 p.m.) - - - 109 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Monday, May 22, 2000, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE RESOLUTION NO.'S 000192, 000193, 000194, 000195, 000196, 000197, 000198, 000199, 000320, 000329, 000330 BILL NO. 000221 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter