COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE THE COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, April 19, 1999 11:20 a.m. - - - Bill 990158 - Being held at request of L&I. BILL 990157 - Amending Section 9-205 of The Philadelphia Code relating to sidewalk sales by adding a new provision prohibiting sidewalk sales on the unit block of South 30th Street, west side. BILL 980923 - Amending Section 9-205 of The Philadelphia Code relating to sidewalk sales by adding a new provision permitting sidewalk sales on the 1400 block of Morris Street, south side, and 1421 West Passyunk Avenue. Bill 980890 - Amending Section 9-205 of the Philadelphia Code relating to sidewalk sales by adding a new provision prohibiting sidewalk sales on Glenwood Avenue from Broad Street to 16th Street, both sides, and on the westerly side of Broad Street from Glenwood Avenue to Indiana Avenue. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY, Chair COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 /99 L&I COMMITTEE I N D E X Bill 990157 John P. Campbell . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Manager Department of Licenses and Inspections Bill 980923 John P. Campbell . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Manager Department of Licenses and Inspections Bill 980890 John P. Campbell . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Manager for the 14 Department of Licenses and Inspections. 15 3 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 990157 P R O C E E D I N G S
Good morning. Thank you for waiting. The Committee on Licenses and Inspections is now in session to consider three bills. There were four bills listed originally on the calendar. Bill No. 990158 is being held at the request of the Department of Licenses and Inspections. The first bill we will deal with today is Bill No. 990157, which is an ordinance 12 amending Section 9-205 of The Philadelphia Code relating to sidewalk sales by adding a new provision prohibiting sidewalk sales on the unit block of South 30th Street, west side. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning, Councilman Kenney, Chairman of the L&I Committee and committee members.
I'm John P. Campbell, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Manager for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. And I'm today to testify on the provisions of Bill 990157, 4 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 990157 which, if adopted by this Council, will prohibit sidewalks sales and vending on the unit block of South 30th Street, west side. We ask that -- we have no objection to the implementation of this bill, and if Council so deems, we will enforce its provisions. This bill 8 is a companion bill to a bill that we had enacted -- had this Council previously enact, banning vending on the 3000 block of Market Street. So this is a companion bill to that. And we would ask that you suspend the rules and have first reading this coming Thursday.
Thank you very much. Any questions for Mr. Campbell? (No questions.)
Okay, thank you, there's no other -- Anyone else to express their views on this bill? (No response.) 5 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980923
Seeing none, we will now move to Bill No. 980923, which is an ordinance amending Section 9-205 of The Philadelphia Code relating to sidewalk sales by adding a new provision permitting sidewalk sales on the 1400 block of Morris Street, south side, and 1421 West Passyunk Avenue. Please identify yourself for the record. I'm sorry. Please let the record show that in attendance for the committee today is Councilmembers Rizzo, Ortiz, DiCicco, and Councilman Kenney. Please identify yourself for the record.
Okay, Councilman Kenney. Again, I am John P. Campbell, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Manager for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. And before I begin my testimony, I would like to propose an amendment to the ordinance. And if I may just read the language into the bill.
After -- as the current 6 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980923 bill is written, the word "bill" is bracketed, which is deleted, and the new language of "subsection (.(.318)), as is the 1400 block Morris Street, south side. Notwithstanding this section (.318), the owner of the business property located at 1421 West Passyunk Avenue may conduct sidewalk sales within three feet of the building line in front of the business if such owner complies with all the provisions of this section 11 9-205. Including but not limited to, license requirements of subsection (3), except that such owner shall be exempt from the following provisions: subsection (8)(c) relating to placement of stands at the curb line; subsection (8)(o), relating to the number of stands; and that part of subsection (8)(m), which prohibits the placement of stands within ten feet of the intersection as defined therein." (Above amendment attached to transcript.)
This bill is at the 7 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980923 request of Council President Verna, and this is a complementary bill to the Broad and Snyder and the general banning of vending on South Broad Street.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Morris Street part of the bill, the 1400 block of Morris, if I'm not mistaken, I notice that the vendor sometimes has more than one stand. I mean, under the ordinance, he's still required to adhere to the code 4-by-8 stand or what have you, right?
That is correct. He's subject to all the provision of Section 9-205.
Now, would this allow other stands on the 1400 block of Morris, or are we speaking about the one stand only?
And that will be clear in the -- I'm not reading from the --
Yes, sir. Actually, as the situation now exists, there is a vendor there currently and because we are in anticipation of 8 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980923 this bill, we have not enforced the provision against him. Originally, we had banned all vending, and I believe the neighbors, the people in the neighborhood had petitioned the Council President to permit this vendor to remain. And this is, you know, for the --
Yeah, I understand that. My concern is that other vendors won't take advantage of -- when you say 1400 block, even if gave the 30-foot distance between the stands, you can probably have stands on that block, or 13 whatever it comes to. 14 I mean, I think Councilwoman Verna's, 15 her intentions were to permit just the one stand to operate there. And I don't know if we can -- I don't want to make it any more cumbersome than we may have to, but I don't think -- and, again, she's not here and I can ask her. I don't think her intention was to allow vending for the entire 1400 block. (Councilman DiCicco confers with aide to Council President Verna.)
Bear with us a moment. 9 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980923
I'm being told by Councilwoman Verna's staff person that there were two stands that would be permitted, and that's what I think the -- Was that the maximum that they were looking to do? STAFF PERSON: Yes.
A maximum of two. I know there was one there for a long time.
How do we handle that? Do you just say within so many feet from Broad Street, going west and no other --
Or I could say, "As in the 1400 block of Morris Street" before the comma. After the comma, add the words "one vending slot only," similar to what do in Center City. Or, as in this case, we're talking to a maximum.
A maximum, right? 10 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980923
Yeah. We could a put comma or semi colon, "a maximum of two vending slots" --
Okay, are we amending the amendment? Do me a favor. Make the additional amendment change, and then read for the record the newly amended amendment.
Please let the record indicate that Councilmember Nutter is also in attendance today for our hearing.
Mr. Campbell, would you rather we hold this for a week? Or --
We could do it today. Yeah, let Mr. Campbell take a shot at it. He's pretty good on his feet.
Yeah. Okay, just one quick question. This is the south side of Morris 11 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980923 street, correct?
All right. So that this should now read "subsection," and I'll pass this up to the committee and to the table. Subsection (.318) as in the south side of the 1400 block of Morris Street; two vending locations shall be permitted." Delete the "south side," the last two words, because we've already put that in front of the 1400 block. Then the rest of the section remains unchanged. So, again, let me read the whole thing. The amendment would be, delete the word "bill" and then "subsection (.318), as in the south side of the 1400 block of Morris Street, two vending spaces shall be permitted. Notwithstanding this subsection (.318), the owner of the business property located at 1421 West Passyunk Avenue may conduct sidewalk sales within three feet of the building line in front of the business if such owner complies with all of the provisions of this Section 9-205, including but 12 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980923 not limited, to license requirements of subsection (3), except that such owner shall be exempt from the following provisions: subsection (8)(c) relating to the placements of stands of the curb line; subsection (8)(o), relating to the number of stands; and that part of subsection (8)(m) which prohibits the placement of the stands within ten feet of the intersection as defined therein."
Let me ask you a question in general. Aren't business owners, by virtue of their business privilege licence permitted to vend wares that they sell within their own store within three feet of the building line?
That is not. When we redid the vending laws in 1975 and again in 1976, we had repealed all existing vending legislation at the time, and those provisions which existed prior to that were deleted so that, I guess, we started sometime in the '80s. And I believe, Councilman, you did -- I'm sorry, in '92, permitting owners to again vend in front of their 13 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980923 stores.
And also to have the stand at the store front within two or three feet at the store rather than at the curb because, again, of the way, when we redid the legislation in '75 and '76, all vending had to be at the curb.
Okay. Councilman DiCicco, does that amended amendment cover your concerns?
I'm having a sidebar with Mr. DeMarco. One minute, please.
So, what is it, making sausage and legislation as the two things you don't want to watch? (Laughter.)
The question is, is there any way we could control who the vendors are, meaning the two that are there now? Or would it mean any two spots? I mean, we don't want to have that situation where --
We could do the other thing, then; we could make it a special vending 14 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980923 district like we did under 9-204, then I would -- (Unintelligible, parties speaking over each other.)
We don't have the situation where somebody shows up an hour before the guy's who regularly vending --
And try to craft something that make sense from both the vending standpoint and from the neighborhood confusion.
Okay, all right, fine. Is there anyone else while they're here that has anything to say about this bill, even though it's going to be held? (No response.) 15 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980890
Okay. The final bill for today is Bill No. 980890, which is an ordinance amending Section 9-205 of The Philadelphia Code relating to sidewalk sales by adding a new provision prohibiting sidewalk sales on Glenwood Avenue from Broad Street to 16th Street, both sides, and on the westerly) side of Broad Street from Glenwood Avenue to Indiana Avenue. Please identify yourself.
Okay. Again, good morning, Councilman Kenney, Chairman of the L&I Committee, and L&I committee members. I am John P. Campbell, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Manager for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. I am here to testify on the provisions the Bill 980890, which would prohibit vending and sidewalk sales on Glenwood Avenue from Broad Street to 16th Street, both sides, and the westerly side of Broad Street from Glenwood Avenue to Indiana Avenue. We have no objection to the enactment of this bill. In fact, we urge Council to adopt 16 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980890 this bill because this is the kind of investment protection that we want to give to those people who are developing North Philadelphia. Particularly, we're opening a supermarket, and this is the -- they need this kind of assistance.
Thank you very much. Any questions for Mr. Campbell? Councilmember Nutter?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Campbell, no question on this particular bill. But on all of these vending prohibition bills, the question continues to occur, which is enforcement and our ability to enforce the multitude of no-vending bills. I've got, you know, I've done a few myself. And so my question resolves around the stretching of the Department's ability to ensure compliance in what amounts to be at times a six-to-seven-day-a-week operation that some people have. If you could continue to reinforce with the Department that -- I mean, we do these bills for the best of purposes and intentions, but our 17 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980890 efforts are totally undermined at times if people know that they can get around us either in the later evening hours and especially on Saturday and Sunday. I mean, I recognize that you've got a budget and you've got to live within that budget and we can't drive your overtime up significantly, but you totally undermine the purpose of these kinds of bills if people know that there's not going to be much enforcement.
I guess -- and can I just -- I hate to use the word "piggyback," but I'd like to piggyback on that question 'cause when, for example, we do cease-operation orders, each police district is given a list of those operations that are ceased by the Department. And if, during the course of evening hours or weekend hours, the police have that list and can go in and enforce the cease-operations, why would not a list similar to a cease-operations list be provided to the police captain? 'Cause, normally, a lot of these people are out there on the weekends selling illegal goods anyway -- bootleg tapes and, you know, other types of non-licensed materials. Is 18 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980890 that something that maybe we need to explore with the Police Commissioner?
Councilman, that's an excellent idea. For example, the Police Department, obviously, is also co-enforcer of any code section that the Department enforces, and we would be very happy to explore that with the Police Commissioner because the sector car riding -- there are how many thousands policemen, and we're a department of 450, 460 people.
All right. We'll explore that outside this hearing to see whether or not it makes any sense. I mean, 'cause it couldn't be that much more work if they're getting a cease-operations order list; we'd just add that to the cease-operations order list.
And this is, I believe, it's like the 320th or 21st or 30th, you sort of -- well, yeah, about the 320th, 22nd vending prohibition in the City, and we are now going to, I guess, little by little, if you look at the history of the whole vending prohibition, you go back, and we're pretty much taking the City block by block, saying that no more vending. For 19 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980890 example, we've just banned all vending in the 6th Councilmatic District. There are large chunks in the 10th Councilmatic District and a significant portion of Districts and where vending is now banned. Ultimately, I guess, in some generations in the future, there will be one vending block maybe left in the City. In answer to Councilman --
That will help ensure massive enforcement then, 24-hour enforcement.
Yeah. Well, again, at Councilman Kenney's suggestion, we are going to explore that.
Add the vending prohibition locations to the cease-operations that the police captains all have so that they have it and then some supervisor on the street would be responsible that if they saw that, that they take the appropriate action.
Our other experience over the years is, as we've been advised of the 20 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980890 hot spots in the various Councilmatic districts, we have gone out there and our presence, and it's something, I guess, that you're never going to eradicate 100 percent, but the presence does get it to abate somewhat.
Not to belabor the length of this hearing, but let me go a little further afield because, as a result of some of the discussions that we're having over Veterans Stadium in the last week, there have been vociferous complaints from the vendors there that there are people, multitudes of people out and around the perimeter of the stadium selling unlicensed goods, like women from New Jersey go-go bars pressing information into the hands of fathers and mothers with kids in tow. Who's responsible for all of that activity down there? 'Cause I understand that during the National League All-Star game, there was a vending prohibition from Snyder Avenue to Pattison Avenue, which was strictly enforced. And also during the NBA, although we didn't have it, but the NBA was going to basically do the same thing. How can we enforce those kinds of 21 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980890 situations in special circumstances but not all the time?
Generally, vending is banned in the stadium area. I believe it's from 10th Street to either 17th or 18th, and I forget what the cross streets are -- Packer Avenue north. Our main detail down at the stadium, in addition to the vending, is also the scalpers detail, which is where we front our activity on. And we do pre-game sweeps, we try to do post-game sweeps of any vendors in the area. The whole issue of the little handouts that the -- whatever the place was, the Fantasy Bar or --
Show Bar, yeah. Again, that -- we sort of got hung up in a first- amendment issue. And, you know, as far as banning them, actually, we haven't really. I guess it's the police more than us who have been, you know, trying to enforce around that -- you know, what you can ask them not to do and --
I guess part of the 22 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980890 problem is --
Part of the problem in that whole area is that it has become so unruly and so unregulated that I think it spills over into what goes on inside the building, inside the facility as far as the -- for example, the tailgating issue. Tailgating is banned in the City parking lots. I mean, my understanding is that most of the people involved in those fisticuffs on Monday were tailgating pretty heavily in the parking lot as a result. And I'm not asking you to comment on police and other security issues, but there seems to be a generally laxity of enforcement down there in general. So, well, maybe we can revisit that at another time. Are there any other questions on this bill? Councilmember Rizzo.
I'd just like to comment on your concept. I know it needs to be develop on the cease orders going to the police, 23 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980890 but I would hope that during the discussion that this policy would be more of a notification to L&I rather than taking police out of service to deal with L&I issues.
They're not being taken out of service; they're in service, driving by locations that --
Well, I want the record to reflect that if they see a violation of an L&I that they would be a referral and not actively involve themselves and not taken out of service to deal with the issue.
Well, we'll explore this, but I don't want the record to be misreflected in that these officers are in service, driving through the streets in their sector during the course of their shift. There's lots of things that they go out of service for in order to respond to complaints, the problems in the neighborhoods, or to illegal 24 4/19/99 L&I COMMITTEE - Bill 980890 activities. And if this is a prohibited activity, if they're doing it, they're doing it illegally. If someone had set up a truck and is selling beer from the back of the truck, certainly that person's vending but I'll bet you the police officer driving by will get out of the car and make a stop of that activity. So, you know, it's what goes on during the course of the day in a particular shift considering how busy someone is. But those are the individuals that are on the front line. They see what's going on every day. And unless I get some complaints from the Police Commissioner, maybe we can pursue this with him. But if he tells me that it can't be done, I'll take his advice. Any other questions for Mr. Campbell? (No further questions at this time.)
Seeing none, is there anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Seeing none, we will now convene the public meeting. - - - 25 4/19/99 L&I COMM. - Public Meeting
The Chair recognizes Councilmember Nutter for a motion on Bill No. 990157, with a rules suspension.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill 990157 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session.
It's been moved and seconded. All in favor? There are none opposed. Bill No. 990157 is reported out of this committee favorably, with a request to rules suspension to allow for first reading at our next Council session. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter for similar motion on Bill No. 980890.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 980890 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a 4/19/99 L&I COMM. - Public Meeting further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Council session. (Duly seconded.)
It's been moved and seconded. All in favor, aye? There are none opposed. Bill No. 980890 will be reported out of this committee favorably and a request will be made for a rules suspension to allow for first reading at our next Council session. Bill No. 980923 will be held to the call of the Chair along with Bill No. 990158. Thank you for your attendance today. (Adjourned at 11:49 a.m.) - - - 27 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Monday, April 19, 1999, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS BILL NO.'S 990157, 980890, 980923, 990158 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter