Letter C, under 3C, the protests. It starts under 3 where it says that protests may be made by one or more of the following. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's E. I'm sorry. It's different glasses I'm wearing today. I'm sorry.
I don't have mine on, but I'm seeing the same thing you're seeing. All right. So this just doesn't really give me the clarity that I'm asking. Can you -- COMMISSIONER VERDI: Basically 88 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 the State's violations will be brought before that board.
Right, through their agencies, departments, commissions, they can --
See, it's one thing to say that there's violations, but when you say the violations will be brought to that board, my question is: Can those violations be used to establish the legality or the issuance of a permit? COMMISSIONER VERDI: Yes.
I mean, it's one thing to have a State agency come and say, Well, we say such-and-such in a hearing, but my question is -- COMMISSIONER VERDI: I understand what you mean. It could be made a part of the requirement. The only that we have to check with the Law Department on is, the State doesn't always litigate 89 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 violations. Violations are not litigated like ours, like we have 30 days to comply. Ninety-five percent of those violations go before adjudication. So there may be a violation on a liquor license, and I'm learning this as I go --
I'm not talking about a violation; I'm talking about a State statute that says the following: You must you cannot "boom-boom-boom" the following points. If you do not comply with that, do you not get a license. COMMISSIONER VERDI: I understand.
Can that be incorporated into our set of standards and conditions for the issuance of a take-out permit?
So if you guys can -- 90 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 COMMISSIONER VERDI: The requirements, you mean, for a take-out location itself?
Including all local statues and all State statutes as -- COMMISSIONER VERDI: We should be able to get them incorporated into the regulations that go before the board or requirement that goes before the board for an application.
Thank you. Mr. Haigler, you mentioned in your testimony that failure to establish the process, the process that 91 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 we're contemplating right now, the Act 155, you say that this may result in the automatic approval of take-out beer permits. In other words, if we don't act on this, this could possibly mean that all of the permits would be approved.
That's correct, because the way the State law that was enacted in November, it stipulates it within the Act 155 that if the board does not consider applications within 90 days after they've been submitted to the board, then the applications become automatically approved.
Well, that would also -- what happens if there's no board?
If there's no 92 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 board? Well, State law anticipates that there will be a board, so all applications, all licenses are going to be expired. All licenses are going to expire on October 31st, whether there is a board or not. So if the applicants, say submit, and there's no board in place to consider it, then those applications will be automatically approved.
So they will be automatically renewed for the next two years.
Thank you for testimony. Is there any questions from 93 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 the committee? The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
One last question. Can I ask the gentlemen to collect with the Law Department and talk in the amendment form about possibly preparing an amendment to the ordinance that will list the specific limitations, prohibitions that will be subject to the take-out permit process?
I just want to make sure that you all have everything and that we're all on the same page.
Mr. Chairman, if I may, I would only ask the leadership there, L&I, to 94 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 confer with the previous witnesses, given the important stipulations they've put on the record so that it's as comprehensive as possible since, you know, we may only get one chance at this. So have a conversation with the previous community folk as well. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Sure.
I'm referring specifically to the provisions that Councilman Clarke raised on the comingling of services of milk and beer, you know, to reduce it to its most simplest terms. I think that there is some value in you sharing those kind of stipulations now as the department moves towards the crafting of the amendment for Thursday. So even if it means just putting it in writing and sending it to 95 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 the chair of this committee as well as to the leadership and representatives here of L&i, at least it's on the record.
The stenographer can't hear the response. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Thank you.
Thank you for your testimony. Can you identify yourself for the record, Mrs. Cummings.
Bonita Cummings. I'm just asking, how is L&I, Otis Haigler and Dominic Verdi, being direct to do confer with the community so that they get a understanding of what the State law violations are that we've outlined as it relates to the guide? I'm just not making stuff up; 96 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 I'm talking about the stuff that's in the State Law Guide, Title 40 and 47, not to mention the Philadelphia Code which, you know, Mr. Verdi explained only that what they can't do as it relates to the State, but he did not talk anything about what they can do as it relates to the violations that relate to the Philadelphia Code. So we're mixing apples and oranges in terms of getting down to what I initially what my testimony is about, because there are things that between the Health Department and L&I that could have been addressed without all of this exercise in futility that are not addressed with the way present inspections are done. And we're not just talking about from the State level; I'm talking about from the City level. Some of these are City violations and not just State violations.
97 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 And what I'm suggesting is, given the action that the Chairman will share with us shortly, given that action, potential action, the time is now to register in writing, as you have done in your testimony, with the leadership at L&I those recommended provisions, restrictions, stipulations that you believe should be in the application that Councilman Clarke has referenced. Thank you. Mr. Chairman.
Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. If there are no other people here to testify -- (Witness comes forward.)
Okay, sure. Could you please state your name for the record.
My name is Lance Haver. I'm Director of Consumer Affairs for the City of Philadelphia 98 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 I'm here to support the bill. I think that including the community makes it better. I think that giving the community an opportunity to be included, instead of just relying on L&I, is empowering the community. I don't think that it's the wrong way; I think it's the best way to do it, when government fails, for whatever reason, to give community standing at all of these proceedings is the appropriate way. I would simply like to make the recommendation that once you come up with the list of criteria, that we mail them out to Town Watch and to block captains so that we make these hearings as meaningful as possible, that you include that the hearings can be held at night and can be held in neighborhoods; there's no reason for them to have to be held during the day in Center City; they certainly can be 99 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 held at night in communities to be as accessible to the people as possible. But I think being a citizen, having the right to vote, having the right to have standing, and when City Council protects that right, I think that is the right thing to do. I thank you for your time.
Thank you for your testimony. Are there any questions from members of the committee?
Sorry, sorry. It may be Mr. Verdi. I forgot to ask a question.
Mr. Verdi, could you please come up? (Mr. Verdi returns to witness table.)
Mr. Haver 100 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 just brought it to my attention. Mr. Verdi, what's the notification process for these hearings? COMMISSIONER VERDI: From my understanding from the ordinance, the notification is to have 90 days to apply.
I'm talking about public notification. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Public notification would the same as a liquor license. There would be a poster.
A poster? COMMISSIONER VERDI: A green-colored poster that goes along the bar on either side of the store bar, whoever's applying, that would notify the community that the take-out permit is being applied for.
And the posting requirement, I believe, under the ordinance, I believe they have to have it posted for... 101 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 COMMISSIONER VERDI: For days prior.
No, 14 days, 14 5 consecutive days. Have it posted for 6 14 days. 7
So since 8 this is now been localized, when we 9 have a zoning, local zoning hearings -- 10 COMMISSIONER VERDI: Yes. 11
-- we 12 require posting, but we also have a 13 list that's made available to 14 Councilmembers at a minimum, and I 15 don't know -- 16 (Indiscernible; parties 17 talking over each other.) 18
Is that 19 still going to be done, notification 20 sent out to -- 21
That is still planned. COMMISSIONER VERDI: We will also have our inspectors looking at these locations that have requested 102 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 take-out to make sure the posting requirement was followed.
I think you already made a mistake on making the statement. I think the follow-up question from the community is, Well, why can't you have an inspector go out and make sure that these violations are enforced? COMMISSIONER VERDI: Unfortunately, Councilman, we do look at violations.
All right. COMMISSIONER VERDI: Not all violations of City Code are able to shut down a location; it's just --
I understand. COMMISSIONER VERDI: We follow a process.
I understand the process. All right. But there will be both public posting and also, similar to the way we 103 5/21/07 L&I COMMITTEE - BILL 070367 currently do zoning hearings, notification is sent to the elected offices -- COMMISSIONER VERDI: That's correct.
Whatever that mailing list is that they currently have.
Thank you for your testimony. If there are no other people to testify on Bill No. 070367, this hearing will be recessed until 9:00 a.m., Thursday, May 24th. (Proceedings end at 2:35 p.m) * * * 104 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings of the City of Philadelphia Council Committee on Licenses and Inspections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me on Monday, May 21, 2007, and that this is a true and correct statement of same. __________________________________ JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)