how many in the audience
morning everyone my name is bill bergman and i will be chairing this meeting of the zoning board
of adjustment with me is our vice chair tenetta graham president mr chairman board secretary
cheryl l gaston president mr chairman board member michael johns president mr chairman and our board
member ryan mcadams president mr chairman also present is our attorney hillary emerson our zba
director ian haggerty and our board administrator lakeisha dandy this hearing is being recorded
and will be posted on the ZBA website by participating you agree to be recorded
this is an in-person meeting with remote participation whether in person or on zoom
if you are called to speak please state your name and spell it and and then wait to be sworn in
after that each time you testify you must start with stating your name to enter
Upon an appearance, indicate the property address on your Zoom webinar, speak with a staff member, call the ZBA office by the close of business tomorrow, call 215-686-2429
and provide your name, your email, and the address of the property in question.
Remote participation. Raise your virtual hand when directed so that we can call upon you.
When we call upon you, you must click the join as a panelist button,
use your q a for procedural issues please do not mention anything to do with the case
if you're if you are joining by phone press star nine to raise your hand and star six to unmute
for in-person participation in testifying get close to the microphone so that all in attendance
and our court reporter can hear you no talking eating or drinking aggressive behavior will not
be tolerated in an emergency follow staff's directions the the exit the main exit is the
rear doors the nearest stairwell is to the left if we evacuate go to love park across our street
Please remain there and so that we can account for you. So let's look at our schedule for today.
number one mi 2025 000 438 4701 211 edmond street we also have an interpreter for this case
good morning we'll be with you in one minute okay good morning my name is steven aubain
last name spelled a-u-b-a-i-n interpreter id y-m-2-8-8 i'll be the spanish interpreter
do you swear or affirm that you will interpret accurately completely and impartially from
english to spanish from spanish to english yes i do all right would you please call our witness
is angela perez garcía así que si ángela perez garcía puede levantar la mano prender su micrófono
and then after what does she do you swear or for to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but
the truth usted jure y afirma decir la verdad toda la verdad nada más que la verdad yes could you
please tell the appellants that we need updated documents to go on with this case and that we're
going to have to continue it today and that our staff will work with her for the next case those
that she's prepared could you please say that así que nosotros necesitamos documentos actualizados
que vayan con su caso así que nosotros vamos a continuar su caso el día de hoy y nuestros
trabajadores van a trabajar con usted para que la próxima vez tenga todo lo que necesita
okay okay and could you tell her this case is going to be continued until eight five twenty
six at two p.m. así que este caso va a ser continuado hasta ocho cinco de dos mil veintiséis
a las dos de la tarde okay okay thank you very much interpreter thank you i'm sorry it's going
to be marked must be heard mr chair what what is it mark must be heard oh mark must be heard on
8 5 26 at 2 pm thank you please tell her that that it must be heard the next time
así que ese caso se tiene que este ver la próxima vez así que eso va a ser en 8 5 20 26 a las 2 de
la tarde okay thank you and does the interpreter speaking is there another um no no there is not
and we want to thank you for your help all right thank you for using the service number two mi
2025-001-676-601 Devereaux Avenue. This case is continued to 8-5-26 at 2 p.m. and Mark must be heard.
Number
Number six.
Okay, so number six is MI 2025-006-999-175 West Oxford Avenue.
This case is continued until 8-5-26 at 2 p.m.
and mr sure that should also be marked must be heard thank you we're gonna mark that must be
heard too thank you and then number eight right number eight mi 2025 001 070 5201 old york road
this case is continued to 10 6 at 9 30 a.m okay any other requests for continuance
good morning chair this is jasmine i will be your co-host for this morning's session
i see no hands at this time okay thank you
So, number three, MI 2025-003-858-510-28 South A Street.
Carl Primavera is an attorney.
Paul Balney is also an attorney.
And Darren Steinberg is also an attorney.
Mr. Steinberg?
Why don't you come up and, well, I don't see Paul here. He might be coming in on. Okay, sure.
And how about the city attorney? Okay.
Morning. Good morning. For the record, Carl Primavera, the attorney of record for the applicants.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, told truth, nothing but the truth?
i didn't okay let me just get my my thing straight here
sir could you give us your name yes good morning my name is darin steinberg d-a-r-i-n-s-t-e-i-n-b-e-r-g
i'm here on behalf of protestants sean sullivan kade otta oda excuse me husband and wife as well
as jack wassey and elizabeth kim husband and wife all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do mr bonnie yes good morning my name is my name is paul
bonnie b-o-n-i i'm here on behalf of the lombard muse owners association all right do you swear or
affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes i do okay so just a a couple
issues to start um you know obviously we have this important case but we also have several other
cases today so we've given this case 50 minutes um what we intend to do is to get through the
attorneys and and um possibly the board but we will not be getting to um the virtual audience
or the audience in general we're gonna have to continue that so what we want to do is have uh
that'll be continued to a different date so i i believe where we want to start is
That'll be continued to a different date. So I believe where we want to start is you'll go first, Carl, right? Paul will go next, and then Councilor, you'll be third. Hopefully that we get all this in.
But keep in mind, it's a total of 50 minutes. And Councilor, you have anything else?
no I just thank you all for coming out I know I'm sorry we're not going to be able to get the
testimony today but we will set a time for that and and we'll have plenty of time to do that at
another date thank you okay so um we're going to get an update from the applicant so um a call
could you please start yes and now so we don't want to win on a zero you win but 10 to 15 minutes
Yes, and I don't think I'll even need that. And we may move quickly enough that we may get to the complete record. But where we left last time, I finished my case. And Mr. Bonney reserved the right to protest if we hadn't finished an agreement with the Lombard Mews.
Well, as you'll see in the record, we have reached an agreement with them, so he has no objection, so he will not be presenting any protestant testimony.
In the meantime, based upon the agreement and further meetings, we have revised the plans, and you'll see in your record a revised refusal.
It doesn't substantially change the refusals.
So, even though we've made the project smaller, we still have the same refusals at issue.
So, at our point right now, we have submitted into the record a legal memorandum, because we assume we would not have time for legal argument at the end.
So, we have a written legal memorandum, the revised refusal, and with that, I think it's going to be for Mr.
bonnie and then mr steinberg to go ahead with their case and again i intend to be extremely
limited in cross-examination with the hope that we can either complete the record today or hopefully
have a very short session in we'll call it uh a short period of time because we've been at this
for a long time and i know the board has a tremendous amount of caseload but we're we're
trying to get to the end. All right. Thank you very much. Mr. Bonnie? Thank you. Hold, before you start, you. Sorry. Mr. Primavera, did you just want to briefly explain the changes and to the, so what's changed about the refusal since last time and if there's anything, I'm not, I wasn't sure if it's the same plans that you had presented last time or are there any additional changes, just for the record so we know what's
there are uh revised plans that were submitted to l and i and the revised refusal uh you know we have
officially eliminated two of the three residential units the accessory residential units on the roof
we've lowered the project we've made some other setback um adjustments and we have the architect
stewart rosenberg who can go in more detail but we've modified the plan in a way uh that obviously
was acceptable to the Lombard News Homeowners Association, but even with those adjustments
and revisions, which we believe are substantial and material, we still have the same issues.
And very briefly, the items of the refusal are, one, we're expanding a non-conforming use.
Two, we don't have the ability, since there's an existing structure, so we don't have required
open space we're not detached we are attached the access to the building
which it currently has in which it will have if approved is from a primary
street and we don't have all the parking that would be required under the code
so they're the they were the original refusals and now even with our modified
and reduced plans they're still the refusals thank you very much Mr. Bonney
Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the board. I represent the Lombard Mews Owners Association. We submitted a letter of support a couple of weeks ago. Looks like it's May 7.
And, you know, I saw the other night Mr. Steinberg took issue with our letter, so I just wanted to describe what we did and where we are right now, which is a position of support.
So very briefly, Lombard Mews is a community of 35 homes adjacent to the subject property.
More than a year ago, our association formed a task force to...
More than a year ago, our association formed a task force to negotiate with the applicant to try and shape the design of the project, to try and obtain protections during construction, and to try and impose some limitations on the ongoing operations.
And after extensive discussions, including meetings hosted by the RCO and meetings occurring in the office of the council person, a draft agreement was reached.
And once we circulated it among the Mews, it was even further refined.
A few weeks ago on April 29th, the Lombard Mews Owners Association voted on that agreement after weeks of review and discussion, including about the fact that we would be providing a letter of support.
The agreement was approved decisively. 22 in favor, 7 opposed, and 2 abstentions. And that's what I had reported in my letter of a few weeks ago.
um four members of the association did not attend either in person or by proxy and therefore they
did not vote um and i believe that it's inaccurate or improper for mr steinberg to try and count the
four no-shows as abstentions in any event it doesn't matter because the outcome was so
overwhelmingly in support of the um of the agreement that we reached with the applicant
We do respect the right of the two MUSE households opposing the project to express their views today. However, it is unfair to try and undermine the clear decision reached by the vast majority of the MUSE. I'm available if there's any questions, but we want to thank all stakeholders.
uh hold on uh hillary has a few questions just yeah just one question yeah just a good question
mr bonnie i just wanted to um confirm because last time you had indicated that um your client
was challenging the refusal um you are no longer challenging the refusal is that correct that's
correct all right thank you mr steinberg could you please start your presentation sure thank you
um just a couple quick points on that so um i think the letter that we submitted stands on its
there's nothing in response to that. I do want to point out that my clients are the only unit
owners in Lombard Muse that have party status. They're not the only ones in opposition. Just
wanted to make that point. Real quickly, we listened to the testimony previously. We have
two experts ready to testify virtually. I do want to do a quick cross-examination if I'm allowed,
but basically what we want to try and establish here is that what is being proposed is not a school
that has been pared down to its bare essentials as has been testified to previously.
And also that the variances that you're being asked to consider doesn't match the full scope
of the project, which we believe still includes religious assembly and things that are no longer
in the refusal but are yet clearly shown on the plan and in the development agreement that was
entered into with Lombard Muse. And third, we would establish that the impacts go beyond that
which you would expect in a permitted use in the RM1 and therefore they haven't met their burden
for the variances. Just a real quick technical legal point. This is not a non-conforming use
case. This involves a non-conforming structure in which they're asking for a variance for a use
that isn't permitted. So I think that's an important distinction. There's nothing about
this property that existed prior to the zoning code or anything like that. There's no
a non-conforming use here. They're trying to make a non-conforming structure, they're trying to get
a use that's not permitted into a non-conforming structure. So I have two witnesses ready to
testify and a quick cross-examination of the rabbi, if I'd be able to. Sure. Are we okay, Hil?
I defer to Mr. Primavera if he wants to recall his client for cross-examination.
Well, the understanding was we did have a whole first hearing, and unfortunately, Mrs. Steinberg wasn't here.
So I would say he can ask questions of the board, and the board can ask questions of the rabbi if they would like,
but we're not going to consent to any witness who testified before where there was the opportunity to be crossed now.
to be crossed now okay why don't we start with your who's your first expert witness
Okay. Why don't we start with your—who's your first expert witness?
uh that would be um jerome skrinkoski of hawk valley associates he's a land use and zoning expert
jerome
jeroen will be coming in as a panelist thank you
you can't see
you'll you'll see it up there
no we're just the exhibits that we exhibit you know that we already
i don't see a place around on my screen
can we promote mr steinberg to a panelist if he's not a panelist already
oh so he is on the panelist side i'm not sure if he's having technical difficulties
now i see him thank you no problem
jerome
do we see jerome
yes chair jerome has been promoted to penalist i'm not sure what's going on
jerome can you hear us you're unmuted
uh mr steinberg if he seems like he's having technical difficulties could we move to your
second witness and he can try to work through that in the interim sure uh my second witness
is lee klein of klein traffic consulting llc he's a traffic engineer
Dr. Lee Klein has been promoted to panelists.
Dr. Lee Klein has been promoted to panelists.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Could you please state your name as spelled for the stenographer?
Certainly.
My name is Lee, middle initial D as in Daniel, Klein, K-L-E-I-N.
Right.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Council?
Thank you.
Good morning, Mr. Klein.
Are you a licensed professional engineer in Pennsylvania?
And are you also a certified professional traffic operations engineer?
And for how long have you had those licenses?
Pennsylvania, I'll have to look on my wall here.
I'm not sure how many years that's been, close to 20, and the national certification about
20 as well.
And they're both in good standing.
And approximately how many traffic and parking studies have you prepared or reviewed in your career?
I have over 40 years of experience in traffic engineering and transportation planning.
So I've done hundreds of traffic impact studies for offices, retail, institutional, such as private schools, public schools, daycare centers, and so forth.
And is your CV attached to our exhibit list?
I believe it is.
And how many times have you testified in front of zoning boards, approximately?
Over 150 times throughout New Jersey.
I've been accepted as an expert in traffic engineering, transportation planning, and parking analysis.
If it's okay, I'd like to offer him as an expert in traffic.
Mr. Primavera.
Yes, we would like to ask a question or two.
Mr. Klein, have you previously testified before the Zoning Board of Adjustment of the City of Philadelphia?
I have not.