civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - March 19, 2024

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Mar 19, 20243h 59m

Thank you.

Similar wording

okay chair we have 137 attendees you can proceed as you wish thank you

Similar wording

good morning everyone my name is bill bergman and i will be chairing this morning's eba hearings

Similar wording

with me as our vice chair ismail shaheed president mr chairman our board member thomas

Similar wording

Solomon. Present, Mr. Chairman. Our board member, James Snell. Present, Mr. Chairman. Also here is

Similar wording

Hillary Emerson, our attorney, and our executive director, Tanya Sunkett. Be advised the proceedings

Similar wording

are being recorded. The video will be available by contacting TanyaSunkett at phil.gov. For the

Similar wording

benefit of our court stenographer, we ask attorneys and witnesses to identify themselves before

Similar wording

testifying. If you're participating by phone, you wish to testify, press star 9 to raise your hand

Similar wording

and star 6 to unmute. 200 appear on the statement call, 267-270-5548. Leave your email address and

Similar wording

the property in question. And finally, the question answer box on the screen is not for

Similar wording

comments or testimony. All comments should be directed to our executive director, Tanya Sumpit.

Similar wording

Let's look at our schedule this morning. Number seven, MI 2023-007-281-8014 Caster Avenue. That case has been continued.

Similar wording

And number three, MI 2022-007-453-301-23 Spring Garden Street.

Similar wording

Is there anyone in the audience for that case?

Similar wording

This is the third listing must be heard.

Similar wording

Good morning, Chair.

Similar wording

This is Yvette Benton.

Similar wording

I'll be your co-host for today.

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

So number three, MI 2022-007-453-301 to 23 Spring Garden Street.

Similar wording

I vote to dismiss.

Similar wording

Thomas Holloman, my vote is to dismiss.

Similar wording

James Snell, my vote is to dismiss.

Similar wording

Dismissed, my vote is to dismiss.

Similar wording

this. Number 10, MI 2023-006-162-1954 Patterson Avenue. This is a resumptive hearing, but

Similar wording

We'll take a request for continuance first.

Similar wording

The attorneys involved, Meredith Trego, Matthew McClure, and also Samuel Stretton,

Similar wording

who are representative of Samuel Stretton from his office.

Similar wording

Okay, Chair, the names you just called, I see none of those people with their hand up.

Similar wording

There's Meredith.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

She's been promoted.

Similar wording

Matthew McClure, he's been promoted.

Similar wording

Morning, Mr. McClure.

Similar wording

The other hands that are raised, we will have to ask if any of them are here representing on behalf of Mr. Stratton.

Similar wording

Right. Okay.

Similar wording

Morning, Mr. McClure. Could you state your name, please, and spell for the court sonographer?

Similar wording

Sure. My name is Matthew McClure.

Similar wording

M-A-T-T-H-E-W-M-C-C-L-U-R-E.

Similar wording

I'm with the law firm of Ballard, B-A-L-L-A-R-D, SPAR, S-P-A-H-R-L-L-P, 1735 Market Street, Philadelphia.

Similar wording

And I'm here with my colleague, Meredith Trego, T-R-E-G-O.

Similar wording

We represent the Fama Park Conservancy, the applicant.

Similar wording

Do you swear, do you both swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

thank you it's mr stratton in the audience or anyone from his office

Similar wording

mr stratton or anyone from his office if you're in the audience please raise your hand

Similar wording

Chair, we had David, looks like, snap it.

Similar wording

chair we had david looks like

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

He's being promoted to panelists.

Similar wording

Good morning, Chair.

Similar wording

Hi, good morning.

Similar wording

i was having trouble hearing uh you said in opposition no no do you do you work for mr

Similar wording

stretton oh no i'm sorry okay thank you you'll have your chance later sir is there anyone from

Similar wording

mr stretton's office i see no hands chair thank you um excuse me uh there there's a note in the

Similar wording

chat that says someone named rich guerrilla is here for sam stratton um i'm not clear in what

Similar wording

capacity is mr guerrilla present thank you mr guerrilla you've been unmuted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

uh yes hello hi mr grill could you state your name is spelled please for the court

Similar wording

my name is rich guerrilla g-a-r-e-l-l-a right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the

Similar wording

whole truth and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. Are you associated with Mr. Stratton or are you

Similar wording

an attorney that works for him? I'm not an attorney that works for him. I am a client of his in this

Similar wording

matter. Okay. And I've discussed with him his position and would like to present it along with

Similar wording

our, with hopefully some objections to why this, there should be a continuance.

Similar wording

um hillary um i mean if he wants i mean well mr grill i think you were

Similar wording

disqualified as a party in the previous hearing am i correct i was summarily disqualified even

Similar wording

though i am an aggrieved party uh under under as the court has ruled so i would have there's

Similar wording

There's nothing about distance that that I can find in the law.

Similar wording

And so I don't see, you know, the disqualification itself is is one of the objections.

Similar wording

So it seems like I should be able to address that.

Similar wording

So the aggrieved party has to do, I believe, more with an appeal to the court of common pleas and not who can testify at a ZBA hearing.

Similar wording

That has not been that has not been defined.

Similar wording

So it's really the closest thing.

Similar wording

it's clearly not any taxpayer that's true yeah i understand mr grella so

Similar wording

mr chair um i do hear other representatives from other entities that were that were

Similar wording

represented by mr stratton presence um if i mean if i mean if they want to proceed

Similar wording

pros say they can but um in terms of the continuance request um but i yeah so our

Similar wording

our continuance was request came from mr stretton's office right on behalf of the front of

Similar wording

park civic friends of fdr park and then there were there were unnamed individuals so i don't know all

Similar wording

of whom he's representing and and and the fact of the matter is that we had told mr stretton

Similar wording

that if he could not make it that we want an attorney from his office or another attorney

Similar wording

to represent him? Yes, because, yes. All right, Mr. McClure, what is your position on this?

Similar wording

Mr. Chairman, we're opposed to the continuance. Obviously, this hearing was originally

Similar wording

started on February 21st. It was continued at the request of the civic associations back in January.

Similar wording

The original refusal, I mean, referral was back in October. We've done the case already. This is

Similar wording

just public comment. There are a lot of people here ready to testify and

Similar wording

give public comment. Mr. Garella, although he may not have standing to appeal or

Similar wording

participate as a party, sure as hell as an individual can testify

Similar wording

when it goes to public comment. So he's here. I see no

Similar wording

reason why we cannot go forward in this matter.

Similar wording

We're going to go forward with this matter today. The hearing

Similar wording

will go on. This case was filed five months ago.

Similar wording

we heard about an attorney last week

Similar wording

so we are going to hear this case

Similar wording

just for the point of information

Similar wording

the case will happen sometime around

Similar wording

lunchtime we should get to that point

Similar wording

this will be the

Similar wording

last one on the list and we'll

Similar wording

hold that so that we can go a couple hours

Similar wording

or an hour or two strictly on taking

Similar wording

public testimony okay

Similar wording

so we will hear this case today

Similar wording

it will be heard about lunchtime

Similar wording

does that sound right Hillary

Similar wording

yes Mr. Chairman

Similar wording

Okay. Thank you. Thank you all.

Similar wording

Thank you all.

Similar wording

Thank you all.

Similar wording

So we're going to go now to our regular list.

Similar wording

Silver.

Similar wording

Number two, MI 2023, 004-396-1807 East Boston Street.

Similar wording

Mark Feynman is the attorney.

Similar wording

The owner is Tantra's MLL Real Estate Partnership.

Similar wording

Chair Mark Fineman is coming back in as a panelist now.

Similar wording

There's a letter of support from East Kensington Neighbors Association and a letter of non-opposition from Council Member Lozada.

Similar wording

Good morning, Mr. Feynman.

Similar wording

Mr. Chairman, sorry to interrupt. It's Richard DeMarco. Wasn't one of my cases supposed to be continued attorney moving party?

Similar wording

It's Richard DeMarco. I'm sorry to interrupt.

Similar wording

I know, Mr. DeMarco. Hold on. What case was that?

Similar wording

Sorry about that. Yeah. 2940 East Ohio, the appeal against L&I, we have no opposition to the continuous attorney moving party from the city. I sent a letter a few weeks ago.

Similar wording

Mr. DeMarco, it's not it's not on the list today, so I think it was already removed and continued.

Similar wording

Oh, I appreciate it. Sorry about everybody.

Similar wording

Oh, not a problem. Have a good week. Have a good day.

Similar wording

All right. Bye.

Similar wording

Hi, Mr. Feynman. Could you state your name, please, and spell for the court sonographer?

Similar wording

Yes. Good morning. My name is Mark Feynman, F as in Frank, E-I-N as in Nicholas, M-A-N. Mark is with a K.

Similar wording

Do you swear or firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Our vice chair has just a few questions for you, sir.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Good morning, counsel. Do you agree to weigh the reading of the refusal or stipulate towards accuracy?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that is needed to proceed with this case

Similar wording

five days in advance of this hearing yes i did thank you council please proceed and show your

Similar wording

screen yes bear with me one moment

Similar wording

are you able to see the screen we can sir okay excellent so uh i have my exhibit list here

Similar wording

number one is the application for the zoning and in this instance it was an application

Similar wording

for the first floor artist studio and artisan industry with retail sales, consumer goods,

Similar wording

with takeout window, dispensary window, second floor to be a single family dwelling.

Similar wording

The refusal, and this was clarified yesterday, my apology, this refusal that we have here is

Similar wording

exhibit two, which is a May 23rd exhibit. I learned late yesterday that there's actually

Similar wording

another refusal and that refusal is dated june the 30th i believe on that but i was not able to

Similar wording

get that loaded up in time for this hearing this morning but i believe that that is all part of

Similar wording

the packet there that refusal mirrors this except there is one additional item in there i can work

Similar wording

to get that over to the panel.

Similar wording

Exhibit three is the deed.

Similar wording

At one point in time,

Similar wording

this property was owned by co-owners

Similar wording

and this deed reflects a change.

Similar wording

Scroll down the next page there

Similar wording

reflecting that the Tantaros transferred

Similar wording

and now the ownership is with the applicant

Similar wording

who's before you today.

Similar wording

where i'm scrolling down here next i'll direct your attention

Similar wording

the diagram here is a rough diagram but i'll show you a sketch of it

Similar wording

our tax clearance these are photos of the posting of the of the notices my apologies for the change

Similar wording

in the angle this is the front of the property here with with the roll down door at this point

Similar wording

it used to be a garage in there and that was converted over this is how the interior looks

Similar wording

at this point with the you can see towards the front here where the window would be

Similar wording

With the you can see towards the front here where the window would be.

Similar wording

This is the February 28 letter from East Kensington Neighbors Association in support of the project.

Similar wording

And this was their meeting summary.

Similar wording

The application for the appeal.

Similar wording

And this is the sketch I was describing earlier to you, reflecting the nature.

Similar wording

The idea here is a working studio of glassblowing with the front area being a cafe selling or offering coffee to go.

Similar wording

The customers would come in, buy their coffee, or they would use the dispensary window to purchase the coffee

Similar wording

and to then stay on the premises that they chose to see the artwork

Similar wording

and also taking studio classes for the glassblowing.

Similar wording

The application is to use this area.

Similar wording

I want to go back to the letter from East Kensington, which describes quite well the circumstances that brings us before the board today.

Similar wording

There was a remapping in the East Kensington neighborhood area.

Similar wording

And as a result of that remapping, it restricted to single family zoning.

Similar wording

That's now been changed to allow for multi-use, which is what this property would be.

Similar wording

and that's why we need to come before the board we're asking for the approval to allow

Similar wording

the mixed use which would include the residential on the second floor and the commercial on the

Similar wording

first floor i believe present with with us today on online would would be rey lorenzo the owner

Similar wording

And I don't know if you can bring her on.

Similar wording

Could you please raise your hand?

Similar wording

Marie Lorenzo has been unmuted and allowed to speak, Chair.

Similar wording

Okay. Good morning. Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Marie Lorenzo, M-A-R-I-E-L-O-R-E-N-Z-O.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Um, please proceed counsel. Thank you very much. Ms. Lorenzo, you heard, uh, my presentation

Similar wording

initially to the board. Yes. And if you were to call it be testified, do you incorporate what

Similar wording

my testimony is as what your testimony would be? Yes. Would you like to add to it to describe and

Similar wording

explain to the board what it is that, that you have in mind to do? And, um, when you're done,

Similar wording

I'll be asking Mr. Purcell to testify, and I know he's also there, so if you could.

Similar wording

Yeah, I don't think I need to add anything.

Similar wording

If you want to call Nathan up, he is the tenant, and he's the one that's doing all this.

Similar wording

He's working hard, so you can call him up.

Similar wording

And you've been working closely with him?

Similar wording

But you would incorporate my testimony, though?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Yes, ma'am.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

I would ask to call Nathan Purcell, P-U-R-C-E-L-L.

Similar wording

The 28th?

Similar wording

Mr. Purcell has been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Good morning.

Similar wording

Could you say your name, please, and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes, it's Nathan Purcell.

Similar wording

N-A-T-H-A-N-P-U-R-C-E-L-L.

Similar wording

Right.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Correct. Yes. Please proceed, counsel. Thank you, Chair. Mr. Purcell, you heard my testimony and you heard Ms. Lorenzo. Is that correct?

Similar wording

Correct. And if we do, do you incorporate our testimony as part of your testimony?

Similar wording

I do. Now, can you see on the screen the image that I'm showing?

Similar wording

Correct. Yes.

Similar wording

Can you explain what this image is and also if you could give the board an insight into what it is that you're planning to do there and why you're before the board?

Similar wording

Yes, I originally moved into this space in 2021 and I've been working there as an artist with my little studio in the back and a gallery up front.

Similar wording

and i've been waiting to uh since when i moved in in 2021 uh all the all the things that are

Similar wording

around me were pretty much under construction and were basically warehouses that were getting

Similar wording

torn down or or new buildings that like that have been getting built so i've been patiently

Similar wording

waiting to basically transform the actual space i'm going to push push the gallery

Similar wording

basically transform the the actual space i'm going to push push the gallery back and then put

Similar wording

the cafe uh in my front and i'm actually going to move out the the uh the little studio uh like

Similar wording

eventually uh but it's mainly going to be a gallery with a walk-up window now day-to-day

Similar wording

business is mainly going to be done through the actual window for uh safety purposes like

Similar wording

in like our like area it's it's still we're on a really nice block but around around around the

Similar wording

like corner there's there's still a lot of homeless encampments and stuff like that so

Similar wording

i want to i've designed it like this to keep the person working inside safe and then what we'll do

Similar wording

is we're going to be marketing the actual gallery exhibits through the, like, cafe.

Similar wording

And what the plan is, is we'll let people in basically once a month for, like, opening night.

Similar wording

And people will, like, be able to come through, check out the actual space, and have coffee as well.

Similar wording

And that's the basic plan.

Similar wording

And mainly on a day-to-day business, it's going to be a walk-up cafe with, like, takeout, basically.

Similar wording

If you could describe to the board, what type of gallery will this be?

Similar wording

Mainly illustration and sculpture.

Similar wording

Now, the street that you're on and the surrounding block, that's all undergoing major renovation and restoration.

Similar wording

Is that correct?

Similar wording

The block that I'm on is now finally finished.

Similar wording

Like it's like on the actual Boston between – well, it's between Kensington and whatever the first block is heading east.

Similar wording

So my block, all three of the huge buildings are like actually done.

Similar wording

And those are all new, correct?

Similar wording

Yeah, those are all brand new.

Similar wording

And so there's absolutely no commercial space on this block.

Similar wording

There's no food.

Similar wording

There's nothing else here.

Similar wording

The following block going down Boston Street, they have three other high rises going up that are going to be probably completed.

Similar wording

I think two of them are done.

Similar wording

And the last one looks like it'll probably be done by maybe springtime or something.

Similar wording

I'm not running the project, so I'm not really sure.

Similar wording

Part of your objective is to have the retail establishment to be able to service the resident that will be moving into all those units.

Similar wording

Correct.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

I have no further questions.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Questions from the board?

Similar wording

No, Chair.

Similar wording

No, Chair.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?

Similar wording

um so a couple of things one uh mr fineman just wanted to verify that the

Similar wording

the later refusal the one in june is that mentions the artist studios and artisan industrial is the

Similar wording

one um that is before the board today that is correct yes thank you okay um that is the june

Similar wording

30 2023 refusal yes okay um and on the refusal it lists both um actually maybe it just has a

Similar wording

no i think the second one fixed it um it's just takeout restaurant the prior one had both

Similar wording

prepared food shop and takeout restaurant so this one fixed it okay that correct that adjusted that

Similar wording

and changed that yes okay okay great okay so then i think we're good we're good there um

Similar wording

Mr. Chair, if you grant in this case, we would need to include a proviso indicating that it's per a refusal dated 6-30-23.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Planning Commission.

Similar wording

ron bednar city planning first name ron r-o-n last name bednar b-e-d-n-a-r

Similar wording

you swear a firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

Similar wording

i do please proceed sir in 2016 the zoning at this location was changed from commercial mixed

Similar wording

use to residential multifamily in accordance with the recommendations in the comprehensive plan

Similar wording

This property has a documented history as a plumbing shop.

Similar wording

The appellant has shown that the proposed artist studio and artisan industrial sales of consumers

Similar wording

The proposed artist studio and artisan industrial sales of consumer goods and prepared food shop and a takeout restaurant will not injure the use of the adjacent properties.

Similar wording

Therefore, the City Planning Commission recommends the Zoning Board grant the four proposed use variances.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

ML 2023 004 396 1807 East Boston I vote yes with proviso per refusal dated 6-30-23

Similar wording

Thomas Holloman my vote is yes with proviso James Snell my vote is yes with proviso

Similar wording

Ishmael Shahid my vote is yes with proviso thank you thank you counsel you have your votes

Similar wording

Thank you very much. Have a nice day, everyone.

Similar wording

Okay. Number five, MI 2023-003-956-1818. Franklin Mills Circle, Stephanie Boggs Magna, is the attorney. Letter of support from the Millbrook Civic Association.

Similar wording

good morning counsel could you state your name please and spell for the court sonographer

Similar wording

morning um stephanie magania lessons m-a-g-a-g-n-a right do you swear or firm to tell the truth the

Similar wording

whole truth nothing but the truth yes i do could you identify your client in relationship to the

Similar wording

property. My client is the owner of the property, Echo Ship PA. Okay, and our Vice Chair has just

Similar wording

a few questions for you. Good morning, Council. Do you read the reading of the reviews or stipulate

Similar wording

towards accuracy? Yes, I do. Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that is

Similar wording

needed to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing? Yes, I have. Thank you,

Similar wording

COUNCIL. PLEASE PROCEED AND SHARE YOUR SCREEN. THANK YOU. SO AS WAS MENTIONED THIS PROJECT

Similar wording

IS FOR 1818 FRANKLIN MILLS CIRCLE. THIS IS AN EXISTING PARKING LOT AREA TO THE NORTH END OF THE

Similar wording

FRANKLIN MILLS COMPLEX. ABOUT 130,000 SQUARE FEET OF EXISTING IMPROVED PARKING LOT AREA HERE.

Similar wording

THIS IS A BETTER AREAL IMAGE OF THE SITE. WE ARE LOCATED DIRECTLY NEXT TO THE SAMS CLUB

Similar wording

that's here. There are in LA Fitness across the street, several auto uses, including a car wash

Similar wording

and a tire shop as well, and directly across Franklin Mill Circle from a large parking lot

Similar wording

area that's occupied by the Bethel Church as well. This site is currently being rented and used for

Similar wording

trailer parking. And more recently, we had another big use that we can show as well for truck trailer

Similar wording

driving school across the street here within the parking lot. So we have several auto uses

Similar wording

located here at the site. Here are some other pictures of this site along Franklin Mills. You

Similar wording

can see the existing trailers that are parked here. But the applicant and the owner of this

Similar wording

project are proposing to convert this property for use as personal vehicle sales. They are very

Similar wording

closely affiliated with A&W Auto Sales that has several car lots in New Jersey. They have their

Similar wording

successful business there and many years of experience and they are looking to open up a

Similar wording

new location at this shop. Here's a better picture of the subject property again and our relationship

Similar wording

to the church parking lot across the street and you can see here that the trailers that are

Similar wording

part of the ongoing operations as a trailer driving school from what we can tell.

Similar wording

Given the audio-oriented uses of this site, the current use of the property, would you feel that

Similar wording

the proposed car lot would be an improvement to this location, efficient within the location

Similar wording

within Franklin Mills at the northern end of the lot, consistent with the other auto uses in the

Similar wording

area. The personal vehicle sales and rentals, as it's defined in the zoning code, does require a

Similar wording

variance in the CA1 zoning district in which this property is located, so we are seeking relief for

Similar wording

that use in connection with the conversion. Again, this would just be for the area, this parking lot

Similar wording

area. Here, there are no physical improvements planned in connection with this use at that time

Similar wording

that would be sought separately later. We're simply seeking approval for the use. And given

Similar wording

the associated uses, that use will bring jobs to the neighborhood as well as utilize the local

Similar wording

businesses. So we do feel it is the least modification necessary to convert this to a

Similar wording

more viable and longstanding use here at this location.

Similar wording

So we did present this application

Similar wording

to the Millbrook Civic Association on January 30th.

Similar wording

We're happy to include their letter of support

Similar wording

within the package as well.

Similar wording

And we look forward to keeping communications open

Similar wording

keeping communications open with them as we begin operations on the site. Also, we did talk to

Similar wording

with them as we begin operations on the site.

Similar wording

Also note,

Similar wording

Councilman O'Neill's office. I'm aware that they are going to request that should the ZVA be

Similar wording

inclined to grant relief in this matter, that be limited to a temporary three-year approval. And we

Similar wording

have no objection to that at this time. So with that, Frank Mazzola is here on the applicant's

Similar wording

behalf on behalf of the owner. He has experience in the business as well. I'll ask him to identify

Similar wording

and raise his hand for the record.

Similar wording

Hi, sir.

Similar wording

Frank Mazzola has been unmuted and allowed to speak, Chair.

Similar wording

Good morning, sir.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes, it is Frank Mazzola, F-R-A-N-K, last name M-A-Z-Z-O-L-A.

Similar wording

Right.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed, counsel.

Similar wording

Thanks, Frank.

Similar wording

Did you hear the statements I made to the board this morning?

Similar wording

I did, Stephanie.

Similar wording

Are they true and accurate to the best of your knowledge?

Similar wording

They are.

Similar wording

Would you adopt them as your own?

Similar wording

I would.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Very briefly, Frank, if you wouldn't mind, could you explain your role with AW and ECHOShip for the board, please?

Similar wording

Yeah, I'm involved with the dealership. A&W has been in business in New Jersey for 40 plus years, operating out of the same location now since 1997.

Similar wording

And we believe the location there at the Franklin Mills Mall is a very good location for this type of business.

Similar wording

And we think that not only will it be an enhancement and improvement to what is currently being utilized there, but we'll also have a positive impact on the local businesses and the community.

Similar wording

We'll be utilizing a lot of the local businesses to support our business and as well as is hiring from the local community to support our business.

Similar wording

So we presented to the to the community board. We actually had an opportunity to present a few times and they seem very receptive and welcoming this, you know, this operation and the business that we would be bringing there.

Similar wording

Thank you, Frank. If there are any questions, we're happy to take those now.

Similar wording

Questions from the board?

Similar wording

No, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

no chair

Similar wording

questions or comments from our attorney Hillary Emerson

Similar wording

not at this time Mr. Chair

Similar wording

questions or comments from the virtual audience

Similar wording

Chair we have Mary Ann Benner

Similar wording

they have been unmuted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

good morning could you please state your name

Similar wording

and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

Good morning, Mary Ann Benner, M-A-R-Y, capital A-N-N-E, Benner, B-E-N-N-E-R. I'm one of the board members for the Millbrook Pacific Association.

Similar wording

All right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed.

Similar wording

Just wanted to say we welcome them as our neighbor, but I do understand also that, again, it's been a three-year variance.

Similar wording

just want to make sure that that's in the record i don't believe it's listed on the letter

Similar wording

all right thank you thank you very much we appreciate that is there anyone else in the

Similar wording

virtual audience chair we have alice udovich they have been unmuted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

good morning good morning good morning chairman members of the board state your name and spell

Similar wording

for the court sonography sure alice udovich a-l-i-c-e last name is u-d-o-v-i-c-h

Similar wording

on behalf of councilman brian o'neill you swear a firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing

Similar wording

about the truth i do please proceed thank you chairman um i just wanted to uh reiterate that

Similar wording

the councilman would if this uh board does in fact grant this variance that they do uh

Similar wording

do a temporary three-year variance um i believe the client um is not opposed to that as well

Similar wording

Thank you very much for calling, Alice.

Similar wording

We appreciate it.

Similar wording

Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?

Similar wording

I see the heads this time.

Similar wording

Planning Commission.

Similar wording

Yes, this is around Bednar City Planning.

Similar wording

Properties indicated for audio-oriented commercial mixed use on the city plan.

Similar wording

Given the documented use history and the physical circumstances of the site, we have no objection to the granting of variance.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

So MI 2023-003-956, 1818 Franklin Mills Circle, I vote yes with proviso.

Similar wording

18-18 Franklin Mills Circle. I vote yes with proviso. Temporary variance expires 3-19-27.

Similar wording

Thomas Holloman. My vote is yes with proviso. James Snell. My vote is yes with proviso.

Similar wording

Ishmael Shahid. My vote is yes with proviso. Thank you, counsel. Thank you very much.

Similar wording

number eight mi2023006051 2547 north marston street henry langsom is the attorney we do not

Similar wording

have an rco letters at this point applicant has given us a position of 20 neighbors

Similar wording

in the 2,500 block of North Marston.

Similar wording

Mr. Langston.

Similar wording

Mr. Langston is coming back in as a panelist now, Chair.

Similar wording

Good morning, Mr. Langston.

Similar wording

Good morning, Mr. Langston.

Similar wording

good morning good morning sorry all right could you state your name please and spell for the

Similar wording

court stenographer henry langson h-e-n-r-y-l-a-n-g-s-a-n do you swear or firm to tell the

Similar wording

truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do could you identify your client in the

Similar wording

relationship to this property? Yes, the client is Circle of Life Personal Home Care LLC

Similar wording

by whose owner is Nidera Warren, and she should be present. Our vice chair has just a few questions

Similar wording

for you, sir. Good morning, counsel. Do you agree to weigh the reading of the refusal or stipulate

Similar wording

to its accuracy? I do. Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that is needed to

Similar wording

proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing? I did. Thank you. Please proceed.

Similar wording

I see you have already shared your screen. Thank you. Basically, I'm trying to get the

Similar wording

exhibit submission.

Similar wording

Um, panel members, um, uh, we have a zoning application, a referral, an appeal, um, site

Similar wording

control, uh, is maintained through a lease with the owner of the property who happens

Similar wording

to be Ms. Waring's sister. She may also be on at the meeting. There is a provision, if you go down

Similar wording

mid-screen, for the use of the premises in the lease as a personal home care business.

Similar wording

I'm highlighting it right now. That's the area in the lease.

Similar wording

A personal home care business is basically using a residential home to provide a living facility in a small, more intimate setting than, let's say, a nursing home without the medical coverage of a nursing home for basically older adults.

Similar wording

There are veterans, persons with Alzheimer's, other disabilities, and they live together, and it can be overnight stay or day stay there.

Similar wording

The patients often come from local hospitals, state agencies that are seeking care for older adults.

Similar wording

This group of population does not add or increase traffic or issues in the neighborhood.

Similar wording

They enhance it.

Similar wording

The operator, Ms. Waring, is trained in personal home care use.

Similar wording

She worked at Elwin Institute doing personal home care for about nine and a half years.

Similar wording

She currently works with families and children.

Similar wording

She currently works with families and children at CHOP in a technical capacity, but it's still in the care business.

Similar wording

And she has credentials, including over 100 hours of training in personal home care from the Pennsylvania State University and training in dementia care.

Similar wording

She has in the past operated in personal home care contacts to provide foods, medication, make sure the patients have medical treatment and get to their meetings, take their medication.

Similar wording

She does light housekeeping, cooking, and generalized care and assistance and loves doing it, has a calling in that area.

Similar wording

The neighborhood has a considerable amount of non-populated homes.

Similar wording

That is, some are lots, some are abandoned homes, and some are vacant homes.

Similar wording

she estimates estimated about 30 percent fall fell into that category in the immediate neighborhood

Similar wording

she went around to the neighbors to present the plan and got universal acceptance with the personal

Similar wording

home care use of the premises from the neighbors they signed the petition the petitions part of

Similar wording

this package. This is a layout of the home. There were no revised plans. There's photos

Similar wording

of the posting. Here are interior photos. This has been newly rehabbed.

Similar wording

There are RCO notices. This is her brochure, which explains the home in even more detail

Similar wording

than I have given. This is some credentials. She's training in dementia, personal home care

Similar wording

administration orientation, and she is a personal home care administrator from Penn State.

Similar wording

um here are her petitions that are signed by the neighbors or it's marked lot or vacant

Similar wording

um that is roughly the uh uh presentation that i wanted to share with mr langson mr langson

Similar wording

could you tell me what happened when they wanted to see the uh rco yes uh when they went to the

Similar wording

There was no opposition. One of the members attendees wanted to cancel the meeting because there was no attorney representation of Nadira Waring and the Circle of Light LLC.

Similar wording

see. I was not involved at that time. But the leader from the local RCO said to continue. There

Similar wording

was no opposition at any time. Okay. Thank you. Could you bring your client along, please, and

Similar wording

adopt your testimony? Yes. Can you come in, Ms. Waring? Raise your hand. Yeah. Ms. Waring has been

Similar wording

allowed to speak, please. Good morning. Good morning. Could you please state your name and

Similar wording

spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Ms. Warren?

Similar wording

She's unmuted here.

Similar wording

Ms. Warren, could you state your name?

Similar wording

Okay. Mr. Langston, you're an officer of the court. We will accept your testament.

Similar wording

Thank you, sir.

Similar wording

Questions from the board?

Similar wording

No, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

No, Chair.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?

Similar wording

Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

Chair, we have Odessa Tate.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Hello, can you hear me?

Similar wording

Hi, good morning.

Similar wording

Good morning.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Good morning.

Similar wording

It's Odessa Tate, O-D-E-S-S-A-T-A-T-E.

Similar wording

O-D-E-S-S-A-T-A-T-E.

Similar wording

Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I am one of the RCUs.

Similar wording

Okay, please proceed.

Similar wording

So I can't quite contend with the lawyer's statement about there not being any opposition.

Similar wording

We did have the public hearing meeting in early December where there were no community members, but it was the RCOs.

Similar wording

A couple of the RCOs had objections, but we agreed and coming back to the table and having another discussion with Ms. Warren because we had additional questions to ask her in regards to the facility and bringing the facility into the community.

Similar wording

So, I had or the other RCOs, we had no additional information other than the location and that she wanted it to be a personal home care facility.

Similar wording

So, I guess it's a red flag, you know, not having an RCO letter or not having any information regarding the meeting and what happened because we were supposed to come back to the table.

Similar wording

and um today i wanted to explore continuance um in regards to this hearing and spoke to

Similar wording

colin who reached out to miss emerson in regards to a continuance okay but um we didn't have the

Similar wording

ability to have a proper evaluation you know for the personal care home and that is all right to

Similar wording

do so so i just wanted to make that comment and thank you thank you for uh calling in we do

Similar wording

appreciate your input um miss kate i just want to verify you're from um all in the family cdc

Similar wording

which is the coordinating rco in this case yes correct thank you thank you

Similar wording

um questions or comments from uh planning commission so ron bednar city planning the

Similar wording

property is indicated for residential use on the city plan we believe that proposed personal care

Similar wording

use will have no detrimental impact beyond what might be expected to have given its uh proposed

Similar wording

location therefore we recommend that the board grant this uh special exception mr langson uh

Similar wording

And we're going to hold this until there's an opportunity that you can talk with the RCO.

Similar wording

The case is closed other than hearing from the RCO and also giving you a chance to respond to what the RCO says.

Similar wording

Okay?

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Mr. Chair, would you like to have a resumption hearing scheduled in this matter

Similar wording

after a follow-up with the RCO occurs?

Similar wording

So I was thinking it's closed

Similar wording

other than what the RCO would have to say

Similar wording

and Mr. Langston's response to it.

Similar wording

Okay, so we're just taking written responses.

Similar wording

Okay, thank you.

Similar wording

Okay, good, great.

Similar wording

Number eight, number four.

Similar wording

We're going to hear number four and number six together.

Similar wording

MI 2024 000 635 101 Bethlehem Pike

Similar wording

and MI 2024 000 637 105 Bethlehem Pike

Similar wording

Henry Clinton is the attorney

Similar wording

also could Leonard Reuter please come on to

Similar wording

from the Planning Commission

Similar wording

uh good morning may it please the board leonard f reuter uh for the city of philadelphia

Similar wording

hi do you swear for him to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do

Similar wording

thank you mr clinton morning mr chairman henry clinton h-e-n-r-y clinton c-l-i-n-t-o-n

Similar wording

and with me uh to my right your left is richard snowden he's the client who's having some

Similar wording

technical difficulties so he came into the office to participate in the zoom call thank you um do

Similar wording

you swear for him to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do okay so what

Similar wording

we're going to do with this henry as i understand uh you'll go first um for your applicant and then

Similar wording

leonard will follow up and then i think leonard may call planning commission but please proceed

Similar wording

but if i could just just so it's clear this uh and boards council ms emerson uh mr clinton and i

Similar wording

have had a few discussions about this this is a remand to this board basically to get further

Similar wording

And remand to this board, basically, to get further information on, I guess, the availability of the MIHB.

Similar wording

information on

Similar wording

Yep.

Similar wording

On...

Similar wording

But so just just so that's in the record what we're doing.

Similar wording

All right. Thank you.

Similar wording

Please proceed, Henry.

Similar wording

So, Mr. Bergman, so there's two cases today, 101 Bethlehem Plague and 105.

Similar wording

The legal issues are the same with regard to both cases.

Similar wording

So I thought then for brevity purposes, I would do 101 and adopt everything for 105 rather than regurgitate information, if that's okay, Mr. Reuter and with the chairman.

Similar wording

Please.

Similar wording

So I'm just going to do a brief background and we'll get right into the heart of the issue.

Similar wording

So, and I don't know that it's necessary at this point, Mr. Chairman, to show my screen and go through the project again.

Similar wording

No, no, no, no, just follow up for the legal issues.

Similar wording

So we were before the board in June of 2023.

Similar wording

We had a number of projects where my client, Mr. Snowden, was basically downsizing commercial properties in Cessna Hill because of the inability to rent larger spaces and converting the back end of the commercial spaces into one bedroom apartments.

Similar wording

So there were two projects, 101 Bethlehem Pike and 105, where we did not get board approval.

Similar wording

Even though we had tremendous support, which I'll get to later, it didn't happen, and that's why we're back here in front of you to explain why we think it should have happened, not because the board made a mistake, but only because I think there was additional information the board didn't have, which hopefully we'll give you today, and that may be a deciding factor on where we go from here.

Similar wording

So we, after the board voted against the project, we filed an appeal.

Similar wording

The court, as Mr. Reuter just said, remanded it back to the court to basically, so that

Similar wording

we could contest the planning commission's issue with regard to the feasibility of the

Similar wording

client participating in the mixed income housing bonus.

Similar wording

And that's really what the case is all about today.

Similar wording

So we were trying to solve the vacancy issue on these two commercial properties, and there's apartments above, because, as I said at the outset, my client learned as a result of the pandemic, and this is a nationwide trend, that the first floor on commercial spaces, you don't need the back office that you used to have before.

Similar wording

And as a consequence, larger first floor commercial spaces on the avenue, Germantown Avenue, as well as Bethlehem Pike, remain vacant.

Similar wording

The two properties we're talking to you about today have been vacant for at least five years.

Similar wording

Even though my client is letting a local gallery use it rent-free just to have somebody in the space,

Similar wording

but it's not an income-driving mechanism that he's involved with right now.

Similar wording

So both projects, we were adding one unit, one apartment unit, and keeping the commercial space.

Similar wording

And that one apartment unit would be on the first floor.

Similar wording

individuals in the neighborhood who may be selling their home and want to stay in

Similar wording

Chestnut Hill would then be able to rent a one-bedroom apartment. So the refusals are

Similar wording

similar in that sense. And they're both zoned CMX1, but because they're adjacent to RS-A3,

Similar wording

the multifamily use was not permitted per the refusals. So the key thing about these properties

Similar wording

is that they are deemed significant on the National Register.

Similar wording

The other significant component, I think,

Similar wording

is at the time of our hearing in June of 23,

Similar wording

we had every significant group in Cessna Hill,

Similar wording

including neighbors as well as the councilwoman,

Similar wording

Cindy Bass, in support of what we were trying to do

Similar wording

because, again, no one likes vacant commercial space.

Similar wording

And our proposal wasn't going to change the facade

Similar wording

or the footprint or anything.

Similar wording

We're basically just going to add one apartment behind the commercial space.

Similar wording

So we had the Chestnut Hill Conservancy, Chestnut Hill Business Association, Chestnut Hill Business Improvement District, Chestnut Hill Parking Foundation, the Chestnut Hill Civic Association.

Similar wording

And as I said, Councilwoman Bass was also in support of the project.

Similar wording

So when it came time for the Planning Commission to give its comments, the Planning Commission,

Similar wording

and I'm going to read from the commentary, and Mr. Reuter, if I misquote anything, I'm

Similar wording

sure you'll stand to correct me.

Similar wording

So there was a lot of redundancy in terms of both 101 and 105.

Similar wording

The first sentence was, the comprehensive plan recommends no change in the commercial

Similar wording

mixed-use zoning of this property, which is CMX1.

Similar wording

So for 101, Planning Commission said this is a 5,560 square foot property, which could yield up to 13 dwelling units if the applicant chose to participate in the mixed income housing bonus.

Similar wording

That was for 101.

Similar wording

That was for 101.

Similar wording

1-0-5

Similar wording

but

Similar wording

105, Planning Commission said this is a 6,750-square-foot lot,

Similar wording

which could yield up to 17 dwelling units

Similar wording

if the applicant chose to participate in the next housing income bonus program.

Similar wording

So for 101, Planning Commission said you could do 13 dwelling units.

Similar wording

105, you could do 17 dwelling units.

Similar wording

Frankly, most developers would jump for joy with that.

Similar wording

My client is not that developer. He has developed historic properties in Chestnut Hill for over 40 years. He doesn't want to expand the footprint of the building. And frankly, if we attempted to expand the footprint of the building, even if the Planning Commission says it was by right, we would have a tremendous outpouring of opposition from everybody in the neighborhood, the Conservancy, the Chestnut Hill Business District, the Civic Association.

Similar wording

And I think they would probably move to make these buildings historically registered in Philadelphia so we wouldn't be able to do anything.

Similar wording

So we really were caught in a little bit of a crossfire here where we don't want to expand the buildings because it's not our game plan.

Similar wording

That's not the philosophy of the company.

Similar wording

And at the same time, we couldn't make a contribution, which we would love to do, for the trust fund because we're not permitted to.

Similar wording

So we were really in a situation where I didn't get a chance to really explain that to the board the first time around.

Similar wording

So Richard Snowden is here, and I just wanted to have him say a few things.

Similar wording

I'm not here to belabor the point, but that's really where we are.

Similar wording

If there was a mechanism for us to make a contribution, and if Mr. Reuter has any city fund or something where we could, we would certainly do that.

Similar wording

we're not looking to buy our way into approval, but I'm just trying to explain to the board

Similar wording

that we are willing participants in the program, but the program doesn't have a relief valve

Similar wording

to allow for an economic contribution to make this work. So we're still before the board with

Similar wording

our request to downsize the commercial space and put a one-bedroom apartment in the rear

Similar wording

of both of these buildings. So, Mr. Chairman, if you could swear in Mr. Snowden, I'm not going to

Similar wording

to be long. I'll ask him a few brief questions, and we'll move on. Snowden, please state your

Similar wording

name and spell for the court stenographer. Richard Wood Snowden. Spell, please, for the

Similar wording

court stenographer. Richard, R-I-C-H-A-R-D, last name Snowden, S-N-O-W, D as in David, E-N.

Similar wording

Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do. Please proceed, Mr. Clinton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, Mr. Snowden,

Similar wording

you're the principal of Bowman Properties Limited, correct? That's correct. And what's

Similar wording

the company's philosophy? We have restored and adaptively reused 100 buildings in the Germantown

Similar wording

Avenue, Chesson Hill Business District, beginning in 1981. Okay. And the two subject properties,

Similar wording

101 Bethlehem Pike and 105 Bethlehem Pike, 101, your company has owned since 2016, correct?

Similar wording

That's correct. And 105, your company has owned since 1999. Correct. And why has it been difficult

Similar wording

to rent the two commercial spaces at these properties? It's a low traffic area and the

Similar wording

spaces were too large. So we wanted to downsize them, put an apartment in the rear area and be

Similar wording

able to have a small gallery or something like that to maintain the commercial ambience of the

Similar wording

mixed-use district, but still make productive use of the square footage on the building.

Similar wording

And both of these properties, they're side-by-side, correct?

Similar wording

Yes, they are.

Similar wording

And they've been vacant for at least five years.

Similar wording

Correct.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And why can't you alter the building to put in, you know, the Planning Commission says

Similar wording

up to 13 or up to 17 units, and why don't you even want to expand the building to put

Similar wording

in one unit?

Similar wording

The only way to do that would be to substantially alter or demolish these two historic structures.

Similar wording

They are both completely serviceable, well-maintained stone Victorian buildings that are listed as significant on the National Register of Historic Places for Chestnut Hill.

Similar wording

And that is not what my company does.

Similar wording

Mr. Clinton was correct. If there was even a whiff of something like that, the Chesney Hill Conservancy would move to have these buildings put on the city register, and the whole thing would be moot. We wouldn't be able to do it anyway.

Similar wording

So we're stuck with the footprint we have, and we're trying to make the best of the situation that exists, which is to put a nice apartment in each of these buildings.

Similar wording

They're very expensive to adaptively reuse.

Similar wording

But we believe in the neighborhood and we're long term investors there.

Similar wording

And right now, you have a gallery.

Similar wording

And right now, do you have a gallery in one of the buildings?

Similar wording

Yes, it's in 105, and they are not paying any rent.

Similar wording

It's something we do.

Similar wording

We put artists into empty buildings so that they don't appear quite so to the Lord.

Similar wording

Is there anything else you want to say, Mr. Snowden?

Similar wording

No, I think that says it all.

Similar wording

And if you had the opportunity to testify, would you adopt my testimony as your own, and it's true and correct?

Similar wording

Yes, sir, I would. And Mr. Chairman, just a brief conclusion. So what we were trying to do is adhere to the next.

Similar wording

Excuse me, Mr. Clinton. This is Hillary. I just wanted to see if Mr. Reuter had any questions for your witness. Thank you.

Similar wording

No, I don't have any questions. Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you, Ms. Emerson. So, Mr. Chairman, basically, I understand that the Planning

Similar wording

Commission looks at the comprehensive plan as they did with these two proposals. And if it

Similar wording

doesn't comport with the comprehensive plan, they have to make their determination. And I

Similar wording

understand Mr. Bednar will do the same thing today as Mr. Hegarty did before. And I respect that,

Similar wording

I really do. And so does Mr. Snowden. But I don't think it's good policy that if you do

Similar wording

that at the expense of continued vacancies when every major player in the game wants those stores

Similar wording

occupied, or you do it at the expense of alienating the community and the neighbors, i.e. that we

Similar wording

expand the building, which really wouldn't work. And if we expand the footprint, as I said, I think

Similar wording

there would be an outcry in the neighborhood and at the expense of our inability to make a

Similar wording

contribution. So maybe there needs to be a legislative change where we could, in a situation

Similar wording

like this, where you have historic properties, where you could make a contribution. But right

Similar wording

now, that relief is not there. So with that, I would close. And Mr. Werner, the floor is yours.

Similar wording

Sure. Thank you. I did want to say just for the record that Mr. Bednar is here just in the normal

Similar wording

routine position of being here as representative for city planning to give the recommendation

Similar wording

since this was a remand which on the face of the remand order itself it was for the applicant

Similar wording

to put something on the record to rebut planning commission's prior position regarding the

Similar wording

variance request i don't think it's necessary for mr bednar to repeat the planning commission's

Similar wording

recommendation but we can just incorporate it from the original case i did want to just if that

Similar wording

if the chair wants to hear from mr bednar we can we can incorporate it for the original case

Similar wording

that's great then so again just so we and just so it's clear in the record um and again mr clinton

Similar wording

will correct me if i'm wrong but uh i just wanted to clarify a couple things it's it's not that

Similar wording

we're not he's not his client is not allowed to put to get to do a payment in lieu it's because

Similar wording

he only wants to put one unit per building the payment in lieu wouldn't be an option because to

Similar wording

offer mixed income housing to get a bonus the mixed income housing bonus now you have to at

Similar wording

least have one unit and but it wouldn't we understand it doesn't make real economic sense

Similar wording

to if you're only going to put in a one additional unit that it wouldn't make economic sense uh in

Similar wording

In terms of, you know, well, in order to take advantage of the bonus or do a payment in lieu, you actually have to put in more units.

Similar wording

So we get that. We understand what the what the what the problem is.

Similar wording

But I just wanted to clarify that the properties are on the National Register.

Similar wording

But as Mr. Clinton pointed out, they're not on the local register.

Similar wording

The National Register, you know, makes the property amenable to certain tax credits and things like that that you can get from the federal government off your federal taxes.

Similar wording

But it doesn't have any local impact in terms of, you know, getting permits, building permits or something like that.

Similar wording

So it may be that at some point somebody would nominate these for the local register, but that hasn't happened yet.

Similar wording

So it's really just the city's position here.

Similar wording

And again, because it's a little bit unclear from the order what it is that the court was asking to happen here, how much of the records open, but to the extent that the board can understand the position of the city, it was the city planning commission's position before.

Similar wording

And it remains that because the mixed income housing bonus is available that and it would be a buy right option and that they're choosing not to take that option, understanding the rationale that Mr. Clinton put forward that at least on its face, the there is no hardship of the property because.

Similar wording

That, at least on its face, there is no hardship for the property because there is a less, this is not the minimum variance that would afford relief.

Similar wording

There is another option they can take.

Similar wording

They've chosen not to take it.

Similar wording

We understand the reasons why they're not taking it.

Similar wording

So on its face, we don't believe that it meets the requirements for granting a variance in this case.

Similar wording

And again, I'm talking for both 101 and 105 Bethlehem.

Similar wording

so that's that's you know again we're just restating the same position we took before i

Similar wording

think the remand was more for mr clinton to have that opportunity to put in the explanation of why

Similar wording

they're not pursuing the mixed income housing bonus but again like i just want to say we're

Similar wording

not preventing him from providing money to the city i mean anybody out there in tv land is more

Similar wording

than welcome to donate whatever you want to to the city but you don't get the benefit uh if you're

Similar wording

only doing one unit per building. So that's all. It's not a prohibition. It's just not available

Similar wording

for that type of project. All right. Thank you. Mr. Clint, do you have any response to that?

Similar wording

No, not really. I think basically cities sound like they're adopting what the Planning Commission

Similar wording

already said. All right. Thank you. So MI 2024, 000635, 101 Bethlehem Pike,

Similar wording

and MI 2024-00637-105 Bethlehem, Pike.

Similar wording

The votes in these matters are being held pending the preparation of supplemental findings of fact

Similar wording

and conclusions of law, which will be incorporated as provisos into the board's decisions.

Similar wording

Thank both of you.

Similar wording

Thank you very much.

Similar wording

Thank you, Chairman.

Similar wording

We'll go to number one.

Similar wording

Henry, I think you're involved in one too, maybe I'm wrong.

Similar wording

So Leonard is available and I'm sorry, MI 2023-005-139-626-30 North Delaware Avenue.

Similar wording

Michael Macchione is the attorney.

Similar wording

This is an appeal against L&I

Similar wording

Morning Mr. Mattione

Similar wording

Could you please state your name

Similar wording

Spelled for the court stenographer

Similar wording

Sure, Michael Mattione

Similar wording

M-A-T-T-I-O-N-I

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth

Similar wording

The whole truth and nothing but the truth

Similar wording

I do

Similar wording

I see the Northern Liberties

Similar wording

Neighbors Association

Similar wording

is in support of the requested

Similar wording

extension.

Similar wording

Council Member Squilla is also

Similar wording

requesting an extension.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,

Similar wording

tell the truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Okay, and our Vice Chair has a few

Similar wording

questions for you, sir.

Similar wording

Mr. Chair, this is an appeal against LNI, so they're not the normal required document.

Similar wording

All right. Well, let's proceed. Thank you. Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And we did submit

Similar wording

some exhibits in advance, including a stipulation, and I believe that Mr. Reuter agreed to that

Similar wording

stipulation as it was revised is that correct leonard uh that's correct yes so i don't the

Similar wording

city uh doesn't need to present any witness here because all the facts that are relevant for us

Similar wording

on the legal questions um are just purely legal questions now there's no factual issues in

Similar wording

dispute uh i might have a couple questions for mr matty only or his client regarding um what i

Similar wording

understand is a vested rights argument they're making, but other than that, we agree to all the

Similar wording

relevant facts as it goes to the legal issues. Thank you. And again, Mr. Chairman, I believe

Similar wording

that Council Member Squilla is also present, and I would like to call him as a witness if he is here.

Similar wording

The issue before the board is whether the zoning permit that was the result of a hearing before

Similar wording

the zoning board on August 8th, 2018 is still a valid permit. This project is a 96-unit multifamily

Similar wording

structure with commercial uses at the ground floor. There was strong community support for

Similar wording

the project and variances to allow the project to move forward where granted we had the RCO support

Similar wording

and council member support when the original variances were granted in addition to the support

Similar wording

that we have from them today. The appellant obtained a zoning permit on August 5th, 2020.

Similar wording

appellant never received any notice of the expiration of the permit dated August 5, 2020

Similar wording

from L&I. Thereafter, appellant was forced to amend the plans for the project because of

Similar wording

significant changes in the floodplain rules. Appellant met with his architect and was forced

Similar wording

The appellant met with his architect and was forced to modify the plans and remove the basement from the structure.

Similar wording

to modify the plans and remove the basement from the structure.

Similar wording

This led appellant to file for an administrative review on June 16, 2022.

Similar wording

And this is after the city says that the permit expired.

Similar wording

The administrative review required notice to the council member, the RCO, and anyone who participated at the original zoning hearing.

Similar wording

The administrative review application was accepted as timely filed by L&I.

Similar wording

The administrative review was approved by L&I on July 19, 2022.

Similar wording

A copy of the administrative review permit dated July 19, 2022 is included in the memorandum of law that we presented as part of our exhibits.

Similar wording

After this happened, Appellant then filed for a one-year extension of the permit, believing that the permit ran until August 8, 2023.

Similar wording

The application to extend the permit for one year was denied by L&I because L&I stated that the permit expired on August 8, 2021,

Similar wording

which was three years from the date of the ZBA hearing, but not three years from the date of the

Similar wording

permit. No notice, again, no notice of the permit expiration was ever provided to appellant.

Similar wording

Appellant's administrative review was accepted by L&I, processed, and a new administrative permit

Similar wording

was issued despite the claim by L&I that the permit had expired prior to the administrative

Similar wording

review being filed. In reliance on this administrative permit, appellant spent more

Similar wording

than $300,000 on engineering, architectural, and legal fees, preparing the construction

Similar wording

permit application and related costs. When appellant sought to extend the permit for a year

Similar wording

as permitted in the code, appellant was informed the permit expired on August 8th, 2021 by L&I.

Similar wording

As a consequence of this action, appellant filed this appeal against L&I seeking to have the

Similar wording

permit declared valid and to extend the permit for an additional year. And we have three bases

Similar wording

for our position. First is the code language and ambiguity. When the original permit was issued

Similar wording

on August 5th, 2020, and that was delayed in part due to the pandemic, and stated the permit would

Similar wording

expire three years from the issuance or date of decision by the Zoning Board. Didn't say the

Similar wording

earlier of, it just said or. Once the administrative review was completed and the permit issued,

Similar wording

appellant applied for a one-year extension of the permit that had been granted by L&I on July 19th,

Similar wording

2022, as set forth in Code Section 1430310D. L&I, upon receipt of the application for the

Similar wording

permit, denied the permit extension, again, stating that the permit had expired on August

Similar wording

8th, 2021, even though they granted the administrative review in 2022 after the permit had supposedly

Similar wording

expired. So we believe that L&I's interpretation is incorrect. The permitting conditions and

Similar wording

limitations set forth on the permit are ambiguous at best as the timeframes. And whenever you have

Similar wording

an ambiguity in an ordinance or a permit, the code language is then construed in the most favorable

Similar wording

like to the landowner the code language here is ambiguous because it doesn't specify when

Similar wording

construction is required to commence it gives alternate dates once you have the ambiguity the

Similar wording

interpretation providing the most benefit to the landowner within three years of issuance must be

Similar wording

used lni also relied on a code bulletin for support of its position you know code bulletins

Similar wording

they're great they provide guidance on zoning issues and code interpretations but they can't

Similar wording

established policies or conditions inconsistent with the zoning code. So that's what they tried

Similar wording

to do here. They tried to say, well, the code bulletin says it's three years from the date of

Similar wording

the hearing, but that's not what the ordinance says. And when the ordinance disagrees, the code

Similar wording

bulletin can't be used to try and change the ordinance. In addition, the code bulletin that

Similar wording

they relied upon was issued on December 11th, 2019, which was after the August 2018 ZBA decision

Similar wording

granting the variances so that they can't retroactively impose conditions. So the code

Similar wording

is written. It allows the effective period for the permit to run from either the permit issuance

Similar wording

or the ZBA approval date. For these reasons, we believe that the first basis provides a reason

Similar wording

for sustaining the appeal. The second issue is the administrative review was a new permit.

Similar wording

and also the Eclipse specifically said when you went on Eclipse that we had three years from the

Similar wording

date of the issuance of the permit so if you went online to check to see when this permit would

Similar wording

expire Eclipse said it would expire in 2023 as well so so LNI with respect to the administrative

Similar wording

review they maintain that the administrative review was just a continuation of the existing

Similar wording

permit and not a new permit but this is at odds with the code language case law and prior LNI

Similar wording

conduct. Section 143031 of the code sets forth specific standards and procedures for administrative

Similar wording

review for projects with prior variance approvals. The process requires notice to the RCO, notice to

Similar wording

the council member, anyone else who appeared at the hearing, and then it will lead to review and

Similar wording

if granted a new permit. But if the permit's denied, you can also appeal that permit. So

Similar wording

So it clearly is a new permit when the administrative review was done.

Similar wording

It clearly is a new permit when the administrative review was done.

Similar wording

And the McEnany case cited in our memorandum said that there the Commonwealth Court said administrative review permits were independent approvals in which the applicant could have acquired vested rights.

Similar wording

And finally, we believe that there is a vested right here in this permit, the permit, the administrative review permit that was granted.

Similar wording

the McEnany court explained there were five things you have to show to get a vested right

Similar wording

one is due diligence and attempting to comply with the law two is good faith throughout the

Similar wording

proceedings three is the expenditure of substantial unrecoverable funds four is expiration without

Similar wording

appeal of the period during which an appeal could have been taken from the issuance of the permit

Similar wording

and five is the insufficiency of evidence to prove that individual property rights or the public

Similar wording

health, safety, or welfare would be adversely affected by the use of the permit. We believe

Similar wording

we meet all five of these requirements. Due diligence first, the appellant filed for the

Similar wording

administrative review in a timely manner. Nobody said it wasn't timely. They met all the code

Similar wording

requirements for notice and submission of required materials. They sent required notices. They acted

Similar wording

in good faith in dealing with L&I. And regarding the original permit, reasonably interpreted that

Similar wording

the acceptance, excuse me, for filing of the administrative review as well as the Eclipse

Similar wording

posting by L&I as verifying the expiration date of August 5th, 2023 as confirmation that they had

Similar wording

a valid permit. Good faith. The appellant acted in good faith in dealing with L&I. They submitted

Similar wording

the review application. They complied with all requirements of the application. They sent all

Similar wording

notices and just did everything you're supposed to do. The expenditure of unrecoverable funds

Similar wording

in reliance on the administrative review permit that they got in 2022, they went out and spent

Similar wording

more than $300,000 in engineering, architectural, and legal fees in preparing plans and taking other

Similar wording

actions necessary to obtain a construction permit. Those funds are unrecoverable. Even if

Similar wording

they started over again, they wouldn't be able to recover those funds. They would have to spend

Similar wording

additional funds. So those funds are unrecoverable. Expiration of the appeal period of the administrative

Similar wording

review permit. The appeal period for the administrative review permit expired and no

Similar wording

one took an appeal, not the RCO, not the council member, and none of the parties who appeared at

Similar wording

the zoning board. So no one filed an appeal. We actually have, again, support letters today from

Similar wording

the district council member and the RCO. Five is there is no adverse impact on public health,

Similar wording

safety, or welfare. Public health, safety, or welfare will not be adversely impacted if this

Similar wording

appeal is sustained. In fact, it will benefit because you will take a longstanding vacant

Similar wording

property and allow to be developed with a multifamily structure and a commercial use

Similar wording

in the ground floor. So it will help Delaware Avenue continue to grow. It will take care of

Similar wording

the long vacant site, and we get a good public benefit from that. So we believe that we have

Similar wording

three bases for sustaining this appeal, and especially with the vested rights argument.

Similar wording

What I would like to do, Mr. Chairman, is if Council Member Squilla is available,

Similar wording

just to call him briefly. I don't know if he's on.

Similar wording

Council member Squilla.

Similar wording

Do we see a hand?

Similar wording

I see no hands at this time, Chair.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

He is in the participants.

Similar wording

He just doesn't have his hand raised, but he's out there.

Similar wording

I think.

Similar wording

We're looking for Mark Squilla?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

His hand just went up.

Similar wording

He's been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Good morning, Councilman.

Similar wording

Good morning.

Similar wording

How are you?

Similar wording

Sorry, I was trying to...

Similar wording

That's okay.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Mark Squilla, M-A-R-K, S as in Sam, Q-U-I-L-L-A.

Similar wording

Right.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Proceed to...

Similar wording

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Council member, did you support the project when it originally came before the board in 2018?

Similar wording

I did.

Similar wording

And did you object when the administrative review, you didn't file an objection when the administrative review was filed in 2022, did you?

Similar wording

I did not.

Similar wording

And do you support the project now?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

And the community also supports the project.

Similar wording

And you support the granting of this request to extend the permit for an additional year to allow the building permits to be obtained?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

And why do you support the project?

Similar wording

It was a project that really took a long time of dialogue and compromise with the community.

Similar wording

We worked hand in hand to come up with something that with not only Northern Liberties, but CDAG, Central Delaware Advocacy Group, to fit within the master plan.

Similar wording

And it would be, you know, a hardship, I think, to to go back and not allow this project to continue.

Similar wording

And it would be, you know, a hardship, I think, to.

Similar wording

I have nothing further for the council. Thank you.

Similar wording

Leonard, do you have any questions to the council person?

Similar wording

I do not. OK, thank you, councilman.

Similar wording

Thank you. Nothing further. OK, Leonard.

Similar wording

uh thank thank you chairman um i you know again as i said at the beginning uh mr mattione and i

Similar wording

and this letter had reached an agreement uh regarding certain stipulations i believe they're

Similar wording

attached to mr mattione's submission uh of documents i think that was made available

Similar wording

through i think a dropbox so i i assume that the board was able to access those yeah um so again

Similar wording

And it's the city's position that the problem here, we concede, as we did in the stipulations, that there was an error on the part of L&I when the administrative adjustment application came in.

Similar wording

And so, again, just to really quickly go through the dates, the original application came in May 3rd, 2018.

Similar wording

May 26th of 2018, a refusal was issued on the application.

Similar wording

And again, this was application 873511.

Similar wording

So that's a pre-Eclipse number that was in the Hanson system.

Similar wording

And that as a result of receiving that refusal, the applicant sought an approval of a variance from the zoning board.

Similar wording

So the zone, I'm not, I don't remember, I don't know exactly when the hearing was held, but the notice of decision from the zoning board was August 8, 2018.

Similar wording

So, again, with respect to the lapse of permits and approvals under the zoning code, that's section 14303 sub 10 sub A.

Similar wording

So it says, except as specifically stated in any other section of the zoning code, an approval or permit granted under the zoning code, including approvals by the Historical Commission pursuant to 14.1005, shall expire if construction or operation pursuant to the permit or approval has not begun within three years after the date the permit or approval was granted.

Similar wording

And then there's additional sections regarding the extension, but I think that's the three dates. And so I think we just want to address specifically the argument that this provision of the code is ambiguous. It's the city's position that this is not ambiguous.

Similar wording

There are a number of permit applications that go for zoning permits that have to have prerequisite approvals, whether that's historical commission, streets department, water department, planning, et cetera, et cetera.

Similar wording

All of those are approvals.

Similar wording

Those are always those always precede the actual permit issuance, because if it's required, then you can't get the permit until you've done those steps.

Similar wording

So approval and permit are not glosses of each other. They're not the same thing. An approval is an approval, a permit is a permit. The argument that the applicant wants to make here is that there's an ambiguity there and that it should be approval or permit, whichever is later.

Similar wording

And it doesn't say that. It says approval or permit. So I think taken to its logical extent, if they get three years from the approval and then three years from the permit and then another year extension, then a zoning board approval or historical commission approval or water department approval, et cetera, would effectively be good for seven years, which can't be the intent of city council.

Similar wording

um the the the point is that you have to have you you get an approval which is a conditional

Similar wording

thing that you know you get you seek from a an agency or department that approval is necessary

Similar wording

in order to go through the rest of the permitting process for a zoning permit

Similar wording

and then once you get that permit you have to get that permit within those three years now yes

Similar wording

there's going to be situations where you might need extra time we understand that there was

Similar wording

covid uh during the period um there actually was a uh short uh extension of affected of zoning

Similar wording

permits uh so if they if only if a zoning permit were going to expire within the effective period

Similar wording

so that would have been uh well basically in 2020 so the beginning of covid so permits that were

Similar wording

expiring around that time were given an additional 180 days but this permit wasn't expiring at that

Similar wording

time this permit was not going to expire until august of 2021 so i think initially there was the

Similar wording

So, I think initially there was the idea that, well, the administrative review permit could have acted as a de facto extension of the permit, but again, it still would have expired by the end of 2021.

Similar wording

idea that

Similar wording

And reference was made to the code bulletin and the code bulletin, which is code bulletin Z-1901.

Similar wording

We agree a code bulletin is not a regulation per se, but it's an expression of L&I's interpretation of the code.

Similar wording

And interpretations of the code, the board should give deference to the agency's own interpretation of the code.

Similar wording

We agree it's not a regulation, it's not a binding thing per se.

Similar wording

But we think that it's a reasonable expression of how L&I views the lapse, the language in the code on when permits lapse.

Similar wording

Because, again, we just don't think it was the intention of counsel that approvals would effectively continue forever, that you had to actually get the permit or a permit.

Similar wording

So in this case, it could have been a foundation permit.

Similar wording

It could have been a building permit.

Similar wording

But there was no permit that was obtained.

Similar wording

Again, we understand that there were reasons that were given as to why they couldn't proceed at the time, but we don't think that the board has any equitable authority to grant permits or grant extensions on an equitable basis.

Similar wording

basis that's separate and apart from the vested rights argument which i'll address in a second

Similar wording

but so basically uh the the code is clear we believe it's clear that administrative adjustments

Similar wording

and amendments by themselves do not extend zoning approvals but even if they did it would have only

Similar wording

been for another year which would have meant that the permit still would have except the permit

Similar wording

life plus a year still would have been the end of 2022 we do understand that it was uh the

Similar wording

administrative adjustment uh was granted an error um but uh an error by a plans examiner or

Similar wording

some glitch or whatever that happened in eclipse um it doesn't supersede what the code itself

Similar wording

already provides so that then brings me and i'll just address it briefly to the vested rights

Similar wording

argument. The city's not in a position to contradict or to counter the numbers and the

Similar wording

figures and the amount of work, which granted is mostly soft costs that went into the permit

Similar wording

applications and whether that money was spent in reliance upon the belief that the 2022

Similar wording

to administrative adjustment was a valid permit that could be extended again.

Similar wording

I certainly don't dispute that they had a reasonable basis to rely upon the administrative

Similar wording

adjustment.

Similar wording

So if they had obtained a permit to do work in 2022 or even 2023, none of those permits

Similar wording

have been revoked at that time, then yes, I think they would have been in reliance that

Similar wording

that and they could have actually proceeded at that point because they had not yet learned

Similar wording

of the city's position that the permits had expired because the city itself wasn't looking

Similar wording

at that at the time until they came in to ask for the additional extension.

Similar wording

Whether they can still reasonably rely upon that to get this board to grant an additional

Similar wording

exception, I will leave and defer to the board's position on that. I think the board is within

Similar wording

its authority to take that into consideration. But in terms of the numbers, the numbers were

Similar wording

submitted by Mr. Mattione. He's an officer of the court. I'm not here to dispute the numbers and

Similar wording

the money that was spent. I think it's up to the board to make a determination if those are

Similar wording

unrecoverable and if they were um if those unrecoverable sums mean that they have vested

Similar wording

a right in a permit that we believe is already actually expired so again there's no building

Similar wording

permit that's at issue in terms of like vested rights we're talking about whether they have

Similar wording

vested a right in the actual zoning permit that right being that they have they had a right to

Similar wording

have that extended till August of 2024. So if the board were to grant the extension, we think that

Similar wording

the permit would still have to expire by August of 2024. So again, we will leave it to the board's

Similar wording

discretion on how to respond to the vested rights argument, but we want to just make sure that in

Similar wording

the record, I specifically address the approval versus permit dispute, but also with respect to

Similar wording

the other legal arguments that Mr. Mattione raises, the city disagrees with those and

Similar wording

disagrees with those and we just want to preserve the argument that that uh those legal positions

Similar wording

we just want to preserve the argument that those

Similar wording

are incorrect that the city has the authority ellen i has the authority to interpret its own

Similar wording

code and the code bulletins are valid unless they're clearly erroneous which we don't think

Similar wording

they are uh so i think that's basically it unless you have any other questions for me

Similar wording

Mr. Mattione, do you have any response?

Similar wording

Sure, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

All I want to say is we believe that the city in 2022 acknowledged that the permit couldn't have expired in 2021 when they reviewed and granted the administrative review.

Similar wording

And when you went on Eclipse, it said that the permit would expire in 2023.

Similar wording

So we turned around, got the administrative review, spent $300,000 doing new plans and everything else, and then realized we're running out of time.

Similar wording

So we then asked for the one-year extension of the permit that was to expire in 2023 to extend it until 2024.

Similar wording

That's the first time we became aware that the city was saying that the permit actually expired in 2021, even though they went and reviewed the administrative review and granted a new permit.

Similar wording

So what we are requesting today is to say that we have a vested right in that permit and we spent all this money on it.

Similar wording

And that because of the delay in time of having this hearing that we get one year from today until March 19th, 2025, for the zoning permit to still be valid because, you know, we acted in good faith on the city's actions.

Similar wording

And we had no idea that the city was going to decide after we spent a lot of money that we no longer had a valid permit.

Similar wording

So that's all we're asking for, Mr. Chairman, is that you find that we have a vested right and that it goes until March 19th, 2025.

Similar wording

If I could just follow up with one.

Similar wording

You can. Sure.

Similar wording

Sure. Very briefly. I do recall now that this matter was originally scheduled for January. Is that right?

Similar wording

December.

Similar wording

December. All right. And I had to request a continuance because I was going to be out of the country. So that's on me. I don't object to adding that additional period of time if you were going to grant the extension. So whatever that would lead to.

Similar wording

Okay, thank you. So MI 2023-005-139-626-30 North Delaware Avenue. We're going to hold this for executive session. We'll vote on this next Wednesday at 930. Does that sound right, Hillary?

Similar wording

Excuse me. Yes, that should be fine, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Yeah, so we'll vote on this next Wednesday at 930 and thank both of you.

Similar wording

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Larry.

Similar wording

Number nine.

Similar wording

one minute number nine mi 2022 007 347 224 to 30 west top of hawkins street michael phillips

Similar wording

is the attorney for

Similar wording

Tulpahawken Mansion

Similar wording

and also Steve Masters

Similar wording

represents the Protestants.

Similar wording

Good morning.

Similar wording

Could you state your name please and spell for the court

Similar wording

sonographer? Michael Phillips

Similar wording

M-I-C-H-A-E-L

Similar wording

P-H-I-L-L-I-P-S

Similar wording

You're on behalf of the applicant Topohokin-Mansion, LLC.

Similar wording

Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Mr. Masters?

Similar wording

Good morning, Mr. Chair, members of the board.

Similar wording

Steve Masters, S-T-E-V-E-M-A-S-T-E-R-S, from the law firm of JustLaws.

Similar wording

Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Okay. Today, we're going to take public testimony.

Similar wording

And as stated at the February 21st hearing in this matter, the purpose of this resumptive hearing is for the board to hear public testimony and the recommendation of the City Planning Commission in order to ensure that everyone who wishes to express their position on this matter is given an opportunity to be heard.

Similar wording

The board will only be accepting public testimony from individuals or organizations who have not already submitted correspondence to the board stating their position.

Similar wording

The lone exception will be the registered community organization whose boundaries include the subject property.

Similar wording

They will be permitted to testify to the RCO process for the project if they wish.

Similar wording

The board will now read into the record the names of the individuals from whom they have received correspondence regarding their positions in this matter.

Similar wording

If your name is not read on this record and you wish to testify, please raise your hand.

Similar wording

If your name is not read on this record and you wish to testify, please raise your hand.

Similar wording

The board will ask that all testifiers keep the remarks brief, concise, and focus on the requested special exception.

Similar wording

Wait a minute. Hold on.

Similar wording

I'm sorry, I got that one at the end wrong there.

Similar wording

Keep the remarks brief, concise, and focus on the proposed parking spaces at the subject

Similar wording

property.

Similar wording

In addition, please avoid repeated comments offered by the previous testifiers.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

And here's our list right there.

Similar wording

here's the support

Similar wording

for Tulpa Hawkins Street

Similar wording

Alexander Russell

Similar wording

Carlene Neal

Similar wording

Councilmember

Similar wording

Vaughn

Similar wording

Dr. Annette

Similar wording

Exiles

Similar wording

Slifrin

Similar wording

Ebenezer Maxwell-Mansion

Similar wording

Elizabeth Shepard

Similar wording

Erin Davison

Similar wording

Evan Michaels

Similar wording

Greg and Sean Kennedy

Similar wording

Hannah Church

Similar wording

Joe Malone

Similar wording

Janice Buschetti

Similar wording

James and Sarah Norbert

Similar wording

Jennifer Miller

Similar wording

John Fitzpatrick

Similar wording

John and Marsha Crawford

Similar wording

Kareem Rosser

Similar wording

Catherine Boltz

Similar wording

Catherine Pennypacker, Kelly Ha, Lionel Guerrera, Lori Spadaro, Luke Smith, Melissa and Clayton Martin, Michelle Kending, Oliver Haber, Olivia Weber, Paige Chapman, Rouse and Julia Gord Morphrey, Ramah Asav Smith,

Similar wording

Real Properties

Similar wording

which is Amanda Ranville

Similar wording

Roberta Moore

Similar wording

and William Marsh

Similar wording

Sherlam Cotton

Similar wording

and here's people in opposition

Similar wording

Mr. Chair

Similar wording

there are a few additional names

Similar wording

at the bottom I can just read them

Similar wording

Simone Grisemore

Similar wording

Sophia Swago

Similar wording

Stacey Rollins

Similar wording

State Representative Stephen Kinsey

Similar wording

Wallingford Apartments

Similar wording

letter from Eli Scherr and Wesley Connors. Here's opposition.

Similar wording

Carla Willard, Connie Winters, Elma Glassgold, Eve Gorin, G. Carter, June Gorin, Jenny Ann

Similar wording

Holtz-Martz, Jill Skull, Jacqueline and Thomas Sharpless, Jonathan Barnes, Julia Mann, Lisa

Similar wording

Waddell, M. Aaron Rickwacker, Mary South and Karen Oliver, Michael Ramos, Nathan Long,

Similar wording

P. Scott Donover, Pamela Hipp, Peggy Zwarta and Tom Baker, Robin Tevis, Susan Tobiah, Susan Wright, Suzanne Kalback, Susan Willard, and Laura Ressinger, the Waldorf School, Betsy Sweeney, Vincent Jones, and William DePetris.

Similar wording

Is that it, Elri, for that one?

Similar wording

Yes, that is, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Two quick notes.

Similar wording

One, we received word from Councilman Bass's office that she has now taken a position of support in this project.

Similar wording

Secondly, there was a question about rebuttal evidence in this case.

Similar wording

So if we could just address that before going to public testimony.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

We will not take the rebuttal here. That'll be part of what you respond to, right?

Similar wording

Well, Mr. Chair, if I just may, this question came up in prior hearings of what the extent would be of any proposed rebuttal testimony from Mr. Beelby.

Similar wording

We have been through, I believe there were two hearings of Mr. Masters and his witnesses and experts presenting evidence.

Similar wording

We have very, very brief rebuttal on two points which I included additional photographs in my packet specifically to address those two very

Similar wording

um photographs in my packet uh specifically to address those two very narrow points i do not

Similar wording

expect that any uh questions of mr bb on rebuttal uh would quite frankly last more than five minutes

Similar wording

so so i think what would prefer that rebuttal make that part of when you submit your documents

Similar wording

at the end that we're going to call for okay so hold on one minute here um

Similar wording

The briefs are going to be due.

Similar wording

What we're looking for is April 19th, and I want you to make that part of your brief instead of doing it today.

Similar wording

Okay, well, then I would just ask it to the extent that the record would be closed at the end that just that tab 34, which are photos of Pastoria Street, Street, Street Bump.

Similar wording

and I believe there are also photos of school-aged children who use Topohokin that those be allowed to be accepted

Similar wording

and that Mr. BLB can either submit an affidavit or submit something to attest to the accuracy of them.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Mr. Chair, likewise, we would ask that our additional exhibits that we submitted in advance of this hearing be approved.

Similar wording

And I don't believe that we require any verification or authentication of them.

Similar wording

Mr. Phillips, do you have a...

Similar wording

No, I do. That's fine.

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

All right. So, questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

Chair, the first hand we have is Lillian Hightower. They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name as spelled for the court sonographer?

Similar wording

Hello, good morning, everyone. My name is Lillian, L-I-L-L-I-A-N. Last name is Hightower, H-I-G-H-T-O-W-E-R.

Similar wording

You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed.

Similar wording

Good morning, everyone. I am just here to say that I am in support of the zoning that is requested for the property that Darren currently is the owner of.

Similar wording

I have been a resident of West Helper-Hawkins Street for, it will be 30 years come this November.

Similar wording

I am also a former employee of the previous owner of that property, the Unitarian Universalist House.

Similar wording

I worked there as the marketing and admissions director for just a little over 10 years.

Similar wording

During my time at the Unitarian Universalist House, we prided ourselves as being good neighbors to this community.

Similar wording

And the property was kept, the maintenance on the property was kept up.

Similar wording

And we also did a lot of community activities with the neighbors.

Similar wording

And we did have opposition at time for zoning issues, but never during my time while I worked there did a inquiry or question come up about traffic coming and going from Pastoria Street.

Similar wording

I also say this because I think it's interesting that it is now a concern.

Similar wording

During my time at UU House, I worked at getting residents moved in and out of the nursing wing, as well as the main area that supported, I guess, care for adults who could manage their own care.

Similar wording

But the nursing wing had a lot of traffic that would come and go regularly because we provided long-term care support for people who could not care for themselves.

Similar wording

We often moved residents in from the Pastoria Street side because that's where the wing was.

Similar wording

There was also traffic that would come in to drop equipment off and so forth.

Similar wording

And so to say that that was it wasn't a concern for the neighbors, although there was traffic that proceeded in and out of that that area.

Similar wording

Also on, I will say there was traffic also on Topahawken Street.

Similar wording

A lot of times our larger deliveries came off of Topahawken Street.

Similar wording

Also as a resident on this block, my home, in addition to the three properties to the left of me, do not have driveways.

Similar wording

We are the only three properties on West Topahawken Street that are directly, directly across from Darren's property.

Similar wording

And we do not have driveways.

Similar wording

Between these three properties, there are at least six vehicles.

Similar wording

Between these three properties, there are at least six vehicles.

Similar wording

I know that as I'm getting older, I'll be celebrating a birthday this year.

Similar wording

I'll be 63.

Similar wording

It's very difficult for me to have to unload and bring my whatever it is I'm carrying in.

Similar wording

If I have to park all the way down the street, oftentimes that could be the case.

Similar wording

So having the convenience of being able to park in front of my home is very important to me.

Similar wording

I do know that there are currently cars that are parking right near my property, close to Green Street, where Topahawken and Green is, because a lot of residents who live on Walnut Lane park at that location on Topahawken Street.

Similar wording

in addition to those people who live at Darren's property who hopefully will be able to park in

Similar wording

front of their own property if this is ruled in his favor, would alleviate those 15, at least

Similar wording

15 parking spots to be used for residents who do not have driveways. I also feel it's really

Similar wording

important to bring it to the attention that we know that other construction work is being

Similar wording

done in this community that will also take up, I believe, parking on our street because

Similar wording

the, I know the property that's expected to be built near the train station, I think will

Similar wording

be underway soon.

Similar wording

And I believe it's going to be 62 units with a limited amount of parking that's going to

Similar wording

be provided for those units and likely that some of that parking will flow onto Topahawken Street

Similar wording

because we know Wayne Avenue hardly ever has any parking. I also feel it's important that we

Similar wording

recognize that the train that travels from Topahawken to Center City may no longer exist.

Similar wording

We are currently looking at how that will result in traffic in terms of people maybe needing

Similar wording

vehicles if they can no longer take the train. So I can't say for sure if that will be an issue,

Similar wording

but it's a possibility. For me, like I said, one of the things UU House prided itself in was being

Similar wording

a good neighbor and maintaining the grounds. And I was concerned maybe when the property went into

Similar wording

other hands, if that would be an issue. But I can honestly say that Darren has kept the property

Similar wording

immaculate and to the um i guess uh level that you house has kept it and above and he has been

Similar wording

a good neighbor um i am i am in support of of the parking for the residents who live at that

Similar wording

property all right thank you any questions

Similar wording

you're muted steve sorry about that i have one or two questions

Similar wording

Ms. Hightower, your testimony is basically concerned with too many cars being parked on

Similar wording

West Papahawken and interfering with your being able to park close to your home. Would that be correct?

Similar wording

Ms. Hightower, please raise your hand.

Similar wording

I believe Ms. Hightower signed off and I just would like to say if we're doing

Similar wording

cross-examination of witnesses no we're not just just the i'm trying to lay out the first couple

Similar wording

people yes yes that that is a concern in addition to other things yes okay and um

Similar wording

have you been inside uh darren bilby's property um do you know how large it is objection

Similar wording

I agree with that, Mr. Ministers.

Similar wording

Now, I will agree that that's.

Similar wording

Move on from that question, please.

Similar wording

So do you have an objection if there are additional parking places put into the property for for the tenants and not onto Pastoria Street?

Similar wording

Or do you only want the additional parking on Pastoria Street?

Similar wording

you? Well, my thing is that during the whole time UU House operated the property, one of the

Similar wording

biggest concerns that the neighbors had is that we didn't intrude onto the grounds because they

Similar wording

felt it would take something away aesthetically from the property. So UU House did everything

Similar wording

that we could to maintain the property and the look of the property because that always seemed

Similar wording

to be their concern so now i don't understand why their concern is not the same because if there

Similar wording

were additional cars parked in that area would it not take away from the aesthetics i mean the

Similar wording

grounds are beautiful now um so i'm not quite sure what their concerns seem to be if that answers

Similar wording

your question not really i'm just trying to understand why why do you insist that the parking

Similar wording

Not really. I'm just trying to understand why. Why do you insist that the parking has to be on Pastorius when it clearly can be in many different places on the property?

Similar wording

it has

Similar wording

Well, in fact, just a few minutes ago, I took my dog for a walk and I walked down Pastore Street and I noticed that the way that the cars are situated to be parked, there's still plenty of ample space for walking.

Similar wording

I actually walked along the sidewalk that was recently built there.

Similar wording

The cars do not, you know, go outside of that area.

Similar wording

And I think it would alleviate the number of parking, like I said, on top of Hawking Street and also in that general area that you're referring to, because aesthetically, that has always been the concern for the residents, that it stayed open.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Finally, last question.

Similar wording

do you know that there are already 22 parking spaces on the property, which is more than one

Similar wording

per unit? So you're basically asking the zoning board to support a variance for people to have

Similar wording

two parking spaces at their homes instead of just one? Well, I have two parking spaces. I mean,

Similar wording

I have two cars, so I would like to park both of my cars. I don't see, and I noticed that all of

Similar wording

the people who reside on Pastore Street have large enough driveways where they can park one or two

Similar wording

vehicles so i'm still not finding their cause for not supporting it no further questions

Similar wording

phillips do you have any questions no mr chair okay next hand please

Similar wording

chair we have mark grissomore they have been unmuted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

hello can you hear me yes please state your name and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

Yes, of course.

Similar wording

My name is Mark Rismore, M-A-R-K-G-R-I-S-A-M-O-R-E.

Similar wording

I'll keep my comments brief.

Similar wording

Hold on.

Similar wording

Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Are you in favor or against?

Similar wording

I'm in favor.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Is there any reason other than what we've heard already that you're in favor for?

Similar wording

I would say, yeah, one extra comment.

Similar wording

So, my wife and I are having our first baby soon.

Similar wording

Congratulations.

Similar wording

So, thank you.

Similar wording

And so, allowing the extra parking would result in having less cars going through the existing parking lot as a roadway.

Similar wording

It would just generally make us feel safer as tenants on the property.

Similar wording

um additionally uh darren's been a phenomenal landlord who has uh put in garden plots on the

Similar wording

property and has maintained a beautiful green space for us um and uh that's all i have to say

Similar wording

so thank you for your time thank you um i'm going to move on to the next one i said okay

Similar wording

anybody have any questions for that i have no questions right next hand

Similar wording

chair we have christopher hines they have been unmuted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

good morning could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

christopher hines please unmute yourself

Similar wording

my apologies uh my name is christopher heinz right t-o-p-h-e-r right last name heinz h-i-n-e-s

Similar wording

do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

Similar wording

i do are you for or against this for uh is there anything that's been said that you can add to

Similar wording

just one quick point I come home late at night most of the time and sometimes I don't have

Similar wording

spots and I have to try and park on Tulpahawken and there are never any spots at night in fact

Similar wording

there's generally not spots for another two or three blocks and that fact makes it difficult

Similar wording

to invite anybody over to my house because they can't find a parking spot that's that's one thing

Similar wording

at night, there's no parking around here. Opening up the Pestoria Street would definitely add a lot

Similar wording

of parking and ease some issues on other streets. Thank you, Mr. Hines. We're going to move on.

Similar wording

Next hand. Chair, we have Devin Hill. They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Good morning. Could you please state your name and spell for the court sonographer?

Similar wording

My name is Devin Hill, spelled D-E-V-I-N-H-I-L-L.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you for or against this project?

Similar wording

I am for this project.

Similar wording

Is there anything that you can add to what's already been said?

Similar wording

Yes, absolutely. I'm just going to keep it extremely brief. It's a safety issue for my family and I. Me and my daughter together, sometimes we have to park on Tomahawk Street. There's been times where we had to park on Wayne Avenue. There's also been times when we have to park on Green Street.

Similar wording

Yes, absolutely.

Similar wording

I'm just going to keep it extremely brief.

Similar wording

So it depends on, you know, where the spots are really pretty much available.

Similar wording

And, you know, it's just a safety issue for, you know, for her being being able to walk those long distances.

Similar wording

There's been times where, you know, we we come home at night, you know, extremely late.

Similar wording

And I would if we had the choice to park somewhere, you know, it would be in front of our home.

Similar wording

But our second best option will be Tomahawken Street. And if Tomahawken Street isn't available to us, then the only other streets that we have are pretty much Wayne Avenue, Green Street and Walnut Lane.

Similar wording

And it's I don't know if you're familiar with those blocks, but these are extremely long blocks for us to have to walk up and down.

Similar wording

So for for my family and I, I think that is pretty much just a safety issue. And that's all I have.

Similar wording

Right. Mr. Chair, can we have the witnesses identify what their addresses are? Because I'm curious which ones live inside the subject property and which ones do not.

Similar wording

Okay. So the next ones will do that. Okay. Thank you. Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Chair, we have Summer Humphrey. They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Good morning. Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Good morning. I am Summer Humphrey, Summer spelled S-U-M-M-E-R-H-U-M-P-H-R-E-Y.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

What block do you live on?

Similar wording

225 West Pastoria Street, Unit 18.

Similar wording

Thank you. Are you for or against this project?

Similar wording

Four.

Similar wording

Okay. Is there anything you could add?

Similar wording

um nothing really to be honest that was my husband who just oh well thank you very much

Similar wording

we appreciate your input thank you next hand chair we have fred cap they have been unmuted

Similar wording

and allowed to speak good morning could you please state your name and spell for the court

Similar wording

sonographer yes can you hear me i can uh my name is fred cap f-r-e-d-c-a-p-p

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes, I live directly across the street.

Similar wording

What block is that, sir?

Similar wording

I'm at 240 West Pastoria Street.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Are you for this or against this?

Similar wording

I'm against it.

Similar wording

Okay, could you tell us why?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

So I live directly across the street at 240 West Pastoria's with my girlfriend.

Similar wording

and we are expecting our first child at the moment.

Similar wording

Congratulations.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

I've lived in the neighborhood my entire life.

Similar wording

I care about the residents and about the neighborhood.

Similar wording

And last year I approached Darren and asked if he wanted to have coffee

Similar wording

to talk about the project.

Similar wording

I met with him.

Similar wording

We discussed everything for over an hour.

Similar wording

And I had asked him if he would ever be willing to accept a negotiation

Similar wording

where we gave him three parking spaces on the Pastorius parking lot

Similar wording

for his handicapped tenants because I heard over and over again

Similar wording

that this is an issue for people who can't walk so far to their front doors.

Similar wording

Darren didn't really say yes or no, never got back to me on that.

Similar wording

So it seems that he's convinced he really wants the 15 parking spaces

Similar wording

on on pastorius um as it stands if he gets approval for those 15 parking spaces um i'm a

Similar wording

little bit worried that my child is eventually going to be put at risk with this big parking

Similar wording

lot directly across the street from our front yard um i want him to be able to ride his bike

Similar wording

walk on the street safely um it is obviously has become a thoroughfare for pedestrians in

Similar wording

the neighborhood, there are a ton of people walking up and down the street all times of day

Similar wording

because it's a nice, quiet street. And I see kids walking to Waldorf School every single day,

Similar wording

riding their bikes, running. It's become a real amenity, I think, for the neighborhood.

Similar wording

And if we allow the 15 parking spots to start using pastories, it's going to be a much busier

Similar wording

Road. You've heard many times that the 200 block of West Pastorius is an alley more than a street

Similar wording

in a historic residential neighborhood, and I'm most concerned with the precedent that this

Similar wording

in a historic residential neighborhood, and I'm most concerned with the precedent

Similar wording

that this variance application would set if approved.

Similar wording

Darren has 20 units and 29 parking spaces already within the property.

Similar wording

If we are calling these 15 additional off-street parking spaces a hardship,

Similar wording

what's to stop other developers in the area from arguing the same?

Similar wording

That they need to build more parking lots and need more than one parking space per unit.

Similar wording

doesn't city planning want to concentrate development that minimizes car traffic and

Similar wording

encourages residents to walk and use public transportation most people in our neighborhood

Similar wording

park on the street because we have few curb cuts interrupting sidewalks i wonder how many of my

Similar wording

neighbors on topahawken or mccallum or walnut lane would feel about having multiple driveways

Similar wording

and a linear parking lot taking up 183 feet of their sidewalks.

Similar wording

I hope we can protect the quality of life for the rest of the people on my block

Similar wording

and those in the larger neighborhood who have to walk in the pastorious partway.

Similar wording

I especially hope that the board denies the variance.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Is there any follow-up questions?

Similar wording

Yes, I do have a few questions.

Similar wording

Mr. Kapp, Michael Phillips here, attorney for the applicant. So, your property front,

Similar wording

Pastorius, is that correct? Correct.

Similar wording

And it's a new construction, it was a new construction home?

Similar wording

Correct. Okay. When was it built?

Similar wording

2022, 2023. Okay. And it was, correct, this was subdivided off of a parcel that fronted

Similar wording

um walnut lane right that you subdivided off the i'm objecting this is going beyond the the scope

Similar wording

of his testimony mr mr phillips could could you try to get to the point sure um you uh have a curb

Similar wording

cut correct yes i built my home by right i needed no variances everything was by right i'm allowed

Similar wording

a curb cut i parked one vehicle there it is nothing at all similar we have discussed this

Similar wording

at previous meetings you've brought this point up at least at two other times i got a buy right

Similar wording

project done i have one curb cut for one vehicle and that is all it is not anything comparable to

Similar wording

thank you thank you mr phillips you have anything else just the only other question are you related

Similar wording

to one of the uh opponents of the project uh miss connie winters yes and how are you related

Similar wording

to Ms. Winters. She's my mother. Okay. Thank you. No other questions. Okay. Next hand.

Similar wording

Chair, we have Yvonne Haskins. They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Good morning. Good morning, Ms. Haskins. Could you please state your name and spell for the

Similar wording

court stenographer? Yvonne Haskins. Y as in yesterday, V as in Victor, O-N-N-E. Haskins,

Similar wording

H-A-S-N-S. All right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but

Similar wording

the truth? I do. Are you a neighbor? Yes, I am. In what block do you live in? In the 200 block

Similar wording

directly across the street from 224 all right are you for this or against i have to be against it

Similar wording

all right thank you you've heard a great deal of testimony that we just heard is there anything

Similar wording

else that you could add i would like to add two things that i have not heard anyone speak to

Similar wording

I understood from prior discussion that all of the traffic from Mr. Beelvich's property would pour into Pastoria Street.

Similar wording

And that is because of a traffic study or an engineering study that says his driveway is only 12 feet.

Similar wording

and I was struck by hearing that, that it's incorrect. The curb cut for his driveway

Similar wording

is the same as the curb cut for my driveway. I live directly across the street in a four-unit

Similar wording

building. I live on the first floor. I have a driveway beside my building,

Similar wording

and my driveway is 18 to 19 feet wide my curb cut is the same and I have to come over a public

Similar wording

sidewalk to get into Tulpa Harkin Street anyone coming out of a driveway along Tulpa Harkin Street

Similar wording

has to take extra care because you're coming into a busy street it's like coming into any

Similar wording

busy street and therefore i don't understand why all

Similar wording

busy street. And therefore, I don't understand why all of the traffic from 22, 24, 30 has to

Similar wording

pour onto Pastoria Street. I've walked on Pastoria Street many times. It's a very lovely place to

Similar wording

walk. It's like an alleyway. And I really have felt very uncomfortable when cars come rushing

Similar wording

through and i can't imagine 35 cars going out into into past stories the other other concern i have

Similar wording

with the property is that the front of the property seems to be getting set up uh continuing

Similar wording

to be set up as an airbnb i've i've been concerned because we live across so i think i think miss

Similar wording

haskins we want to concentrate on the on the parking that's requested in the back there so

Similar wording

Why don't we just concentrate on that?

Similar wording

I think the parking, it's more than just the parking in the rear that that is at issue.

Similar wording

If if the motive for the for all the parking going on, all the cars going out of the rear is for the Airbnb in the front, I think an illegal Airbnb.

Similar wording

Again, objection to anyone.

Similar wording

So we're not going to take your testimony about that.

Similar wording

Well, Mr. Chair, there is evidence that we've submitted in our exhibit binder today that Mr. Bilby reserved six parking spaces at the front of his property off of Tupperhawken for Airbnb customers.

Similar wording

So I think it's directly relevant because he's asking for a variance for 15 parking spaces.

Similar wording

He has six that he has held captive inside his property that he doesn't allow his tenants to use.

Similar wording

If he did, that would be that would be nine. That would be not, you know, that he would that he could knock it down to nine at most.

Similar wording

So I think it's very relevant. Mr. Masters, I I I hear what you're saying, but we're going to move on from that.

Similar wording

Miss Haskins, do you have anything else you want to offer?

Similar wording

No, sir. That is my. And Miss Haskins, we do we do appreciate your comments and your testimony.

Similar wording

OK, next hand, please.

Similar wording

Chair, we have Jeffrey Jones. They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, could you state your name, please, and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes, Jeffrey Jones. J-E-F-F-R-E-Y, J-O-N-E-S.

Similar wording

Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

No.

Similar wording

what's your relationship to the property? Well, the relationship to the property is I live in the

Similar wording

area and I have friends who live on that block of Pastoria Street who I regularly visit and it has

Similar wording

become concerning for me because I understand that they've been calming measures and cushions

Similar wording

put in place, which are great, but they do not solve the problem for the pedestrians and other

Similar wording

residents in the area and school kids who use that as a normal way of walking and just going

Similar wording

about their business. The reason that these cushions are not going to be helpful is because

Similar wording

cars are still speeding by. The 20 mile an hour speed limit is not adhered to. Just this past

Similar wording

Saturday as I was visiting a friend, I was almost hit by a car traveling approximately 35 or 30

Similar wording

miles an hour i had to jump onto the curb just to you know get out of the way of the vehicle

Similar wording

now i'm an able-bodied individual but i we have to consider those who are not as able-bodied in

Similar wording

the youth in the area when they're walking around they may not be able to hop out of the way and be

Similar wording

able to avoid cars that are going to be speeding if traffic pattern changes if there are additional

Similar wording

cars coming through who are not abiding by the speed limit there's no way of monitoring the speed

Similar wording

limit then who's to say what other catastrophes will come by diane menunez and our good neighbor

Similar wording

mr russell were two individuals whose lives were changed because of accidents in and around that

Similar wording

area of increasing traffic mr jones mr jones we understand your point about traffic is there

Similar wording

anything else that you would want to raise yeah i want to raise the fact that you know there is

Similar wording

no pedestrian curb way on pastoria increasing traffic in that area will do nothing more than

Similar wording

to cause more accidents.

Similar wording

Mr. Jones, can I just ask

Similar wording

what Mr. Jones' address is?

Similar wording

Mr. Jones, where do you live?

Similar wording

Looks like you signed off.

Similar wording

Mr. Jones, please unmute yourself.

Similar wording

He said he wasn't a neighbor

Similar wording

when he started.

Similar wording

I have an address for him

Similar wording

of 6002 Wayne Avenue.

Similar wording

Okay, thank you very much.

Similar wording

But just to be clear, Mr. Chair,

Similar wording

he was testifying to...

Similar wording

I'm still here.

Similar wording

yeah we'll stick at 200 way mr phillips anything else that was my question for him and mr

Similar wording

okay mr phillips anything else that was my question for him yeah mr mr jones when you

Similar wording

were testifying to the car that almost hit you can you can you um identify the exact location

Similar wording

of where you were when that was happening yeah uh 265 pasturius i was visiting a friend at that

Similar wording

address location thank you all right okay next hand please chair we have suzanne ponson

Similar wording

How many more hands do you see?

Similar wording

After Ms. Ponson, there are only two more hands, Chair.

Similar wording

All right, thank you.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Ms. Ponson, please unmute yourself.

Similar wording

Suzanne Ponson please unmute yourself

Similar wording

she may be having some technical issues Cher all right move on to the next hand

Similar wording

Cher we have Dure Montague they have been unmuted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

how could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

sir. My name is DeRay Montague. First name D-U-R-A-Y-M-O-N-T-A-G-U-E. Do you swear or affirm

Similar wording

to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Are you a neighbor? Yes.

Similar wording

And where do you, what, what block do you live on, sir? I live two doors from the property in

Similar wording

question on 250 West Top of Hawkins Street. Okay. Are you in favor or against this project?

Similar wording

I am in favor of the project. And you've heard a great deal of testimony. Is there anything else

Similar wording

you could add? Yes. I agree with the fact that we need parking. Another factor is there are always

Similar wording

cars parked at the fire hydrants across from my house every night. My visitors have nowhere to

Similar wording

park. My house borders, I have a parking lot where I park my family's three cars, and we enter and

Similar wording

exit primarily on Pastoria Street, and I don't have any problem with the amount of traffic.

Similar wording

The new safety cushions have probably cut down some of the pass-through traffic,

Similar wording

if nothing else. And I understand what the opponent's points are, and I really appreciate

Similar wording

their passion, but they're wrong on this. We have neighbors that have parking right in front of

Similar wording

their house that they can't use. They're spilling into and impacting negatively the rest of the

Similar wording

neighborhood. And I live, I'm impacted as much as anyone by all of Darren's developments. I brought

Similar wording

my home 10 years ago next door to two abandoned, unused, decaying properties. And 10 years later,

Similar wording

Darren has rehabbed those to the improvement of the community and as much as anyone's impacted

Similar wording

Germantown in years and years. So in closing, I just think that all of us, all the people on this

Similar wording

call, the people who are against it, they have generally two things in common. They don't live

Similar wording

on Pastoria Street, or if they do, they have that privilege. We all have that privilege. My house is

Similar wording

on Tupperhawken Street, but I exit onto Pastoria Street, past the carriage houses that used to be

Similar wording

for horses and buggies, and now they all have parking lots. I don't understand the almost

Similar wording

hypocrisy, and it disappoints me. I think people really care about this neighborhood, and it's

Similar wording

very impressive, but with all that Darren has contributed to the neighborhood, the fact that

Similar wording

he's rented to a diverse and brought a new diverse and talented community to our area.

Similar wording

It's a shame that they have the hardship of not having parking in front of their house. I don't

Similar wording

think it would have much of any impact on pedestrians or us who use it for entry and exit.

Similar wording

All right. Thank you. Does anyone have any questions? Okay. Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Chair, we have Che Villanueva.

Similar wording

They've been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Good morning.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Mr. or Ms. Villanueva, please unmute yourself.

Similar wording

Mr. or Ms. Villanueva.

Similar wording

Mr. or Ms. Villanueva, please unmute yourself.

Similar wording

Chair, they're not unmuting.

Similar wording

Is there any other hands?

Similar wording

We have one more, George Boudreaux.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

George Boudreaux, please unmute yourself and wait for this.

Similar wording

Good morning.

Similar wording

Good morning.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

My name is Dr. George Boudreaux, George traditional spelling.

Similar wording

My last name is B-O-U-D-R-E-A-U.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Objection, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

We believe that Mr. Boudreaux has already put a written statement in.

Similar wording

And so he's barred from making public testimony today.

Similar wording

I'm barred from making a public statement, sir.

Similar wording

So, sir, if you've already given us a written comments, that's already part of the record.

Similar wording

And we're trying to we're trying to move this along today.

Similar wording

And that's the reason we did it.

Similar wording

But your your comments have already been taken into consideration.

Similar wording

And thank you for taking time to calls.

Similar wording

We appreciate it.

Similar wording

Excuse me.

Similar wording

This is Hillary.

Similar wording

I just want to clarify, Mr. Boudreaux, are you from the Ebenezer Mansion?

Similar wording

Ebenezer Maxwell Mansion, the Historic House Museum, yes.

Similar wording

Yes, we have received that letter.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?

Similar wording

I see no hands, Chair.

Similar wording

Mr. Chair, I have a request.

Similar wording

We had a witness for public testimony who was not able to remain.

Similar wording

Her name is Shea Villanueva.

Similar wording

and we would like to be able to supplement the record

Similar wording

with her written statement in lieu of her public statement today.

Similar wording

That's fine.

Similar wording

And Mr. Chair, it looks like Suzanne Ponson is trying to testify.

Similar wording

We can give her one more opportunity to see if her technical issues are resolved.

Similar wording

Hi, could you, Susan?

Similar wording

Yes, Suzanne.

Similar wording

Hi.

Similar wording

Sir, I'm very sorry.

Similar wording

No, no, no.

Similar wording

I'm using the telephone.

Similar wording

I mean, I'm using the telephone.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

My name is Suzanne, S-U-Z-A-N-N-E.

Similar wording

And the last name is Ponson, P as in Paul, O-N-S-E-N.

Similar wording

Right.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I'm not a near neighbor, but I am a neighbor.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

But I am.

Similar wording

Tell me the block that you live in.

Similar wording

You'll have to give me your address.

Similar wording

I live in the 5900 block of McCallum.

Similar wording

But I am president of West Central Germantown Neighbors.

Similar wording

OK. Are you for or against this project?

Similar wording

I'm not calling. I would like to clarify some questions that I know have been asked in the past.

Similar wording

And we have not as none of the board members have spoken up about it.

Similar wording

But I'd like to explain. I was president a year ago when when the last RCO meeting occurred and and when the vote was taken and so forth.

Similar wording

The only thing that I'd like to say is that at the time, the subject was debated about near neighbors versus not near neighbors.

Similar wording

And the point I'm raising has to do with the fact that perhaps 25 of the near neighbors that voted or are tenants of 224 to 30 West Alpahawkins Street.

Similar wording

We use the list of near neighbors as the city required.

Similar wording

But we did not make any notation to the fact that, as I said, 24, 25 of the voters, and I don't know how they voted because it was an anonymous vote.

Similar wording

I don't know how they voted, but 25 of the voters, their vote was made and credited to the near-neighbor position.

Similar wording

And I can say that the board, we had a debate about it within the board.

Similar wording

We had a debate about how we should go with this.

Similar wording

And in the end, we decided to go with the list that was provided for us by the city.

Similar wording

was provided for us by the city right and that's all that i'd like to say okay um thank you very

Similar wording

Right.

Similar wording

And that's all that I.

Similar wording

much do you understand what i yeah okay i do understand i think what you said and we we

Similar wording

appreciate taking the time to call us okay thank you is there anyone else in the virtual audience

Similar wording

chair we have a kyle church with their hand up they have been unmuted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

so this will be the last one we're taking okay yes chair

Similar wording

hi could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

yes this is kyle church k-y-l-e church is c-h-u-r-c-h um i'm here with my wife

Similar wording

hold on hold on hold on one minute do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing

Similar wording

but the truth yes i do are you a neighbor uh uh i am a resident on on uh pastoria street

Similar wording

what 100 block uh say i'm at 225 okay all right mr chair we we object to this testimony because

Similar wording

hannah church who is with um mr church um has submitted a written statement um already and so

Similar wording

we believe that they're barred from testimony i have not i can confirm we received a statement

Similar wording

already from hannah church in writing sir we already have a comments for your wife it's part

Similar wording

of the record and uh we appreciate the letter and it is can i give my comments as well um i i think

Similar wording

we're going to stay with what your wife sent us and we appreciate the time you've spent to try

Similar wording

to cause thank you is there anyone else i see no further hands chair planning commission

Similar wording

this is uh ron bednar city planning

Similar wording

yeah i already swore you right right yes yeah the comprehensive plan recommends no change to

Similar wording

residential single family zoning at this location city planning commission recommend on the original

Similar wording

case that there is to be no curb cuts on Pastoria Street. This new application to create additional

Similar wording

spaces with direct access to Pastoria Street would create five new curb cuts, with the majority

Similar wording

being over 25 feet in width at the street. The City Planning Commission maintains that the

Similar wording

parking is excessive and sees no unique conditions of the property that would cause us to

Similar wording

change our original recommendation. Thank you. The due dates for the brief will be Friday the 19th

Similar wording

at the close of business. Thank both of you. Just for clarification, Mr. Chair and board

Similar wording

counsel, are we submitting just briefs or are we submitting suggested facts and conclusions?

Similar wording

of what how would you like us to to proceed just just submit your your closing arguments and any

Similar wording

rebuttal evidence that we already discussed today or supplemental evidence that we've already

Similar wording

discussed today that the board is permitting um to go into the record otherwise the record is closed

Similar wording

okay and just for clarification i know mr masters meant did mention uh i believe it was

Similar wording

miss Villanueva that he'd be submitting um a written uh you'll get a copy okay yeah and and

Similar wording

we did have one uh similarly uh glenn miss glenn near carter who i believe had her hand raised and

Similar wording

then it was down i don't believe she was able to uh um connect for uh um technical issues so i would

Similar wording

just request the same that you know we'd be permitted to submit a supplemental letter on her

Similar wording

behalf we have no objection thank you all right thank you uh to the board for your uh time and

Similar wording

thank you so much okay um hillary so we talked about breaking at 12 30 right

Similar wording

um yes mr chair so why don't we do this why don't we take a five minute break and then we'll come

Similar wording

back, and we can read into the record all the names and things of that nature, and then start

Similar wording

fresh at 1.30. Is that okay? It might be better to read the name, because I think people will be

Similar wording

coming back later, and we will want them to hear their names. Okay, so then we'll take a break now,

Similar wording

you're saying? Yes, I think we should take a break now, Mr. Chair. Okay, good. Okay, so why don't we

Similar wording

come back at 1.10? Well, I think we can come back at 1.30. I think that would be fine.

Similar wording

Okay. All right. 1.30 is fine. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, everyone.

Similar wording

My name is Bill Bergman.

Similar wording

I will be chairing this afternoon's hearing.

Similar wording

We're going to go to number 10, MI 2023-006-162, 1954 Patterson Avenue.

Similar wording

On this case will be two attorneys, Meredith Trego and Matthew McClure, and also Leonard Reuter is an attorney for this city.

Similar wording

He should be here, too.

Similar wording

chair matthew mcclure is coming back in as a panelist now i'm waiting for i'm waiting for

Similar wording

mr voider and meredith trago to put their hands up okay

Similar wording

chairman matt mcclure yeah i matt you've already been sworn leonard you've already been sworn

Similar wording

and and just to clarify the city is not the applicant we are the property owner

Similar wording

by agreement with fairmont park conservancy they are the applicant and taking the lead

Similar wording

on this but i'm i'll be here in case there's any questions from the board thank you

Similar wording

All Republican parties have been promoted to panelists, Chair.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

As stated at the February 21st hearing of this matter, the purpose of the resumptive hearing is for the board to hear public testimony and the recommendation of the City Planning Commission in order to ensure that everyone who wishes to express their position on this matter is given an opportunity to be heard.

Similar wording

The board will only be accepting public testimony from individuals or organizations that have not already submitted correspondence to the board stating their position.

Similar wording

The lone exception will be the registered community organizations whose boundaries include subject property.

Similar wording

They were permitted to testify regarding the RCO process for this project if they wish.

Similar wording

The board will now read into the record the names of the individuals and organizations from whom it has received correspondence regarding their positions in this matter.

Similar wording

If your name is not read into the record and you wish to testify, please raise your hand.

Similar wording

The board asks that all testifiers keep their remarks brief, concise, and focus on the requested special exception to remove the heritage trees from subject property.

Similar wording

In addition, please avoid repeating comments offered by previous testifiers.

Similar wording

Here are people who have sent letters that are in support.

Similar wording

Anderson Marks Youth Sports Organization, Council President Kenyatta Johnson, Hunting Park United, NOMO Foundation, Philadelphia Dragons Sport Association, Philadelphia Parks and Recreation, South Philadelphia Sigma Sharks, State Representative Regina Young, Unity in the Community, and Warren Abbott.

Similar wording

Here's letters of opposition.

Similar wording

Bradford Whitman, Brian Jeans, Brianna Gialdo, Brina Belford, Brielle Brilani, Britt Doberg,

Similar wording

Brooke Wesley, Taryn Cervani, Carly Russ, Katherine Darin, Katherine Roberts, Kathy

Similar wording

Van Der Root, Charles Blinnick, Charles Murphy, Chris Pico, Chris Wack, Christina Gardner,

Similar wording

Christopher Bruhn, Dara Silverman, Doran Helmel, David Schepanskic, Delaware Valley

Similar wording

Ornithical Club, Dr. John Chico Baker, Dr. Julia Mitchell, Dr. Wendy Gibson,

Similar wording

Dr. Julia Mitchell, Dr. Wendy Gibson, Eugene Clarion, Elaine Hughes-Jensen,

Similar wording

You

Similar wording

Ilu Serpell, Ilan Grunberg, Emily Serena, Emmett Wilson, Flo Carmody, Friends of FDR Park,

Similar wording

G. Pluck, Gabriel Gubb, Bonji, Garrett Sager, Goyer Pilello, Haley Brantford, Heather Severson, Huckle Young, James Stanton, June Pluck, Jane Fishman, Jay Sheffman, Jeffrey Turner, Jennifer Miller.

Similar wording

Jennifer Prince, Jess Mercurio,

Similar wording

Gemico Call, John Amadio,

Similar wording

Julia Kropik, Karen and Felix Penzula,

Similar wording

Karen Leibowitz, Kat Ken Don,

Similar wording

Kat Weary, Kate Laspina,

Similar wording

Caitlin Navarro, Caitlin Rebisch,

Similar wording

Catherine McGuire, Catherine Rice, Tim Alsbrooks, Tim Barbetta, Kristen Kiki Becker, Kristen

Similar wording

Jennewitz, Christy Glazer, Lori Crandall, Lori Bernneister, Lauren McClutchin,

Similar wording

Clutchin, Lauren Schiffman, Lily Safran, LJ Brubaker, Lucine Miller, Lynn Gallagher,

Similar wording

Mucklin Koch, Malcolm O'Malley, Mark Kaplan, Max Friedman, Megan Anger, Michael Horsey, Miriam Harlan, Nadia Cummings, Neil Petillo, Nicole Hoffman, Nicole Kemmel, Norma Gottlieb,

Similar wording

Ali Jem, Ali Zagovic, Packer Park Civic Association, Patricia Yannitz, Richard Goella, Robert Kaponskik,

Similar wording

Rita Gitter-Munz, Sally Coyne, Sirene Carr, Sharon Tayman, Silver Licello, Sefin Kroll, PhD.

Similar wording

Stephanie Barber, Wendy Leapheart,

Similar wording

Wincote Audubon Society.

Similar wording

We will now go to the virtual audience,

Similar wording

and I believe we're going to start with the RCO.

Similar wording

Is Barbara Capozzi in the audience?

Similar wording

Barbara Capozzi, if you're in the virtual audience,

Similar wording

there she is.

Similar wording

Okay, now her name disappears here.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

i had this back up she's been unmuted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

good afternoon could you please state your name is spelled for the court stenographer

Similar wording

um my name is barbara capozzi c-a-p-o-z-z-i do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the

Similar wording

whole truth and nothing but the truth of course yes and you're you're one of the rcos am i correct

Similar wording

Yes, actually both.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Esteem chair and board, I'll be as brief as possible.

Similar wording

Go ahead.

Similar wording

Happy first day of spring.

Similar wording

We should all be down at FDR Park now doing a field view because I'm sure that if you saw the gorgeous trees that are to be killed because of this application, you would vote against it as we have.

Similar wording

My name is Barbara Capozzi.

Similar wording

I'm the president of the Packer Park Civic Association for 30 years.

Similar wording

No one wants the job.

Similar wording

um packer park is the lovely community immediately adjacent to fdr park i'm also the co-president of

Similar wording

the friends of fdr park along with lindsey stanapikio who will be next we are firm supporters

Similar wording

of the parks and rec system for decades and i am probably the leading advocate for the fdr parks

Similar wording

revival over the last 25 plus years i have volunteered thousands of hours spent thousands

Similar wording

of dollars and this case is ripping my heart out and stomping on it. I can summarize this plan in

Similar wording

two words and save you all this reading. Bad karma. I can summarize it in three words. Very bad

Similar wording

karma. Of all the places in 360 acres to dump toxic turf fields and

Similar wording

Of all the places and 360 acres to dump toxic turf fields, and that's another subject for another day, the experts picked in the midst of 64 huge, gorgeous heritage trees.

Similar wording

Heritage trees means they're old, they're 25 inches in diameter or more, multiple branches, and usually at least 30 feet high.

Similar wording

And this is the difference between BookSmart and StreetSmart.

Similar wording

Pay attention.

Similar wording

BookSmart, StreetSmart.

Similar wording

Street Smart should win.

Similar wording

Whoever goes along with this bad decision will forever ruin the nature and flow of this beautiful, peaceful park.

Similar wording

My neighbors say they moved here to be next to the park, not a noisy, bright lights and ball field activity center.

Similar wording

Just because of the time, energy, good faith, and volunteer efforts that the two RCOs have made, we did not get a lawyer.

Similar wording

We did not want to be adversarial to the Parks and Rec and Fairmount Park systems.

Similar wording

We naively believed that they would respect us, all of our hard work, our nights, our weekends, meetings, meetings, meetings, cleaning the park on Sundays, and respect our position in the community, on the street, and literally boots on the ground in this community with park users and neighbors.

Similar wording

After all, we are the people who get the complaints.

Similar wording

We're the first line of defense.

Similar wording

We object to Mr. McCuller's continued characterization that the RCOs delayed this matter.

Similar wording

Once we received the exact plans, which was mid-November, we immediately asked Fairmount Park and Parks and Rec for a meeting to discuss the many questions that we had.

Similar wording

We know from our constituents what questions people will ask.

Similar wording

So in order to get those answers first, we had to meet with them.

Similar wording

Very important issue. Traffic, security plan, why only 170 parking spaces, et cetera.

Similar wording

We got no response. We wrote again. We are always polite and courteous. Always. We requested a meeting. Finally, the date for that meeting was set, not by us, but by the Fairmont Park and Parks and Rec, and it was January 26th. So we did not delay. We asked then, we asked now for a modification of the current plan so the delay was not on our part.

Similar wording

packer park civic has already voted to appeal this decision if it goes against us

Similar wording

friends of fdr park has not taken that vote yet there are many environmental groups also opposed

Similar wording

to this and its plans in the current state that it's in i hope that you please read those heartfelt

Similar wording

letters as well especially from the bird people on behalf of packer park civic only our neighbors

Similar wording

vehemently do not want more traffic noise and lights it's not like we don't have a lot going

Similar wording

on down here already. We do. Fairmont Park is giving us fields, yet cutting down the very trees

Similar wording

that protect us from the noise, the lights, the music that these fields on the northern portion

Similar wording

of FDR will generate. So we're getting the fields and they're killing our buffer. Makes no sense.

Similar wording

The neighbors were adamant about that and I put forward their opposition. In my role as co-president

Similar wording

of the Friends Group, I have tried to compromise with Parks and Rec. This plan for the sake of the

Similar wording

neighbors now my neighbors are not happy about that compromise but i am trying to work with

Similar wording

everybody the friends have been trying since november to modify this plan very simply and

Similar wording

save a huge number of these large gorgeous trees that serve as buffers it's a lose-lose for packer

Similar wording

park and it's also a lose-lose for the park um we have we have tried to get a meeting with the

Similar wording

new head of parks and rec the new commissioner we had a meeting scheduled for four o'clock yesterday

Similar wording

it was canceled right before with no explanation and no request to reschedule if there's an

Similar wording

emergency you usually say well let me reschedule this that did not happen so i believe the hard

Similar wording

working volunteers who have kept this park clean and beautiful deserve better than the disrespect

Similar wording

and demissive attitude from both parks and rec and fairmont park conservancy for us volunteers

Similar wording

This whole process has been one of marginalizing the RCOs, and that's very sad, because these are the people who care so much.

Similar wording

To summarize, the applicant did not show that there's no reasonable alternative to this plan.

Similar wording

We tried and got nowhere.

Similar wording

We do have a reasonable alternative.

Similar wording

All we ask is a slight shift, same footprint.

Similar wording

I know it's already been surveyed.

Similar wording

Just shift it over to the West.

Similar wording

Lose one field, lose two courts, save the beautiful championship tree,

Similar wording

save the clubhouse where the friends operate their volunteer activities out of children's

Similar wording

library etc the applicant also did not show that there's no harm to the park and to the neighbors

Similar wording

a traffic study was never done um it was offered to us january 26 i'm sure that it has not commenced

Similar wording

there's also been no security plan and we've had an endless vandalism routed scenes and issues

Similar wording

ungodly uh in the last in this last week it was heartbreaking the beautiful new anna c verna

Similar wording

playground was taken over by bullies last weekend and my phone rang off the hook from parents very

Similar wording

last weekend and my phone rang off the hook from parents very very upsetting yes they call me not

Similar wording

very upsetting

Similar wording

Fairmount Park or Parks and Rec they have no idea how to reach those boats in the ivory tower

Similar wording

please know that the park already has to be closed six to seven times a year on Sundays

Similar wording

closed for further people coming in because it's too packed and that's not Eagle Sundays that's

Similar wording

other spring Sundays. And it's also many other Sundays are too close for comfort, but it's not

Similar wording

closed. The ZBI, this process, not personally to you, but this process is stifled advocacy

Similar wording

and we did not get a lawyer, which was our mistake. The witnesses went in untouched and

Similar wording

that's unfortunate. It's almost impossible to advocate over Zoom. So please bear with me,

Similar wording

I'm almost done. The master plan was a framework. We had no idea the specific placement of the first

Similar wording

fields until November 2023. We asked many questions, the parking spaces, the traffic,

Similar wording

the security. We had no idea these large gorgeous trees would be cut for ball fields. No one at the

Similar wording

multiple planning meetings in 2018 ever advocated for tournament play or killing trees, just the

Similar wording

opposite. However, after COVID, and I'm sure you all know this, times are far different now.

Similar wording

There's a decline in civility, a decline in respect, and what looked benign in 2018

Similar wording

is now toxic, controversial, flammable, combustible. No one behaves anymore. There is no respect. So

Similar wording

the thought of having all these fields here and no trees to buffer it are pretty upsetting.

Similar wording

One of the trees alone is a state champion, 122 inches in diameter and 40 feet high, many, many branches.

Similar wording

It's slated to come down.

Similar wording

Believe me, if you saw it in person, you would weep.

Similar wording

We have shown an alternate plan, and we advocate for its acceptance.

Similar wording

And there is harm to the community, and we advocate for the plans and the traffic study to show that.

Similar wording

Finally, I have to say this, that we are very, very disappointed at Fairmount Park and the parks and rec and the disrespectful and dismissive attitude they have had toward their biggest advocates, the volunteers.

Similar wording

Thank you so much for listening.

Similar wording

Any questions?

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Could the representative for FDR, RCO, please come on?

Similar wording

That would be Lindsay, last name beginning with S. I don't want to butcher. Yes, I see her at the bottom. There you go. Thank you.

Similar wording

Lindsay Scannapico has been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Good afternoon. Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Good afternoon, Chairman. Good morning. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Lindsay Scannapico. That's L-I-N-D-S-E-Y. Last name is Scannapico, S-C-A-N-N-A-P-I-E-C-O.

Similar wording

You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Thank you. Please proceed.

Similar wording

Thank you very much, Chairman.

Similar wording

Honorable members of the Zoning Board and everybody else who has gathered here today, thank you so much.

Similar wording

I stand here today as the co-president of the Friends of FDR Park alongside Barb Capozzi.

Similar wording

I am not a paid staff member or paid consultant.

Similar wording

This is just a park that I love dearly and decided to get more involved in about eight years ago when I joined the Friends of FDR Park.

Similar wording

It was clear at the last hearing that we were unable to ask questions of the experts, clarify statements that were made, or participate without legal counsel.

Similar wording

Therefore, we found legal counsel today. Unfortunately, they were unable to join the meeting today, which is why we requested continuance.

Similar wording

It is not to further delay this process. It is really to allow us to have representation at the table.

Similar wording

let me be clear we are not opposed to the master plan in fact we are exceedingly enthusiastic about

Similar wording

the opportunity for investment and support within fdr park however our concerns lie with the lack

Similar wording

of community input in this specific zoning application and the removal of heritage trees

Similar wording

when we believe that there is an alternative plan that would be better for all while we recognize

Similar wording

the thoroughness of the public engagement process in 2018, five years ago, prior to the pandemic,

Similar wording

we have found ourselves unable to share concerns in the process today now that details and designs

Similar wording

have been developed. When we saw the master plan in 2018, one of the big questions the Friends of

Similar wording

the FDR Park Board had, and was well documented, was regarding the traffic and security plans in

Similar wording

was regarding the traffic and security plans in the park the investment sounded great but the

Similar wording

the park.

Similar wording

The investment

Similar wording

salary

Similar wording

operational impacts were critical master plans are a framework and we understood this but we

Similar wording

were told continually that our concerns and questions would be answered in the design phase

Similar wording

this has not occurred fdr park has experienced a significant uptick in visitors with the number

Similar wording

soaring from 2.75 million visitors recorded prior to the pandemic to over 4.5 million visitors last

Similar wording

year. The population of the city of Philadelphia, as we all know, is only around 1.5 million people.

Similar wording

So this is a really significant regional park. Regular closures already happen in the park due

Similar wording

to unsafe conditions caused by excessive traffic. We've had fatalities in the park due to this.

Similar wording

We are currently closing the park six to eight times a year in the spring and autumn due to too much traffic.

Similar wording

In this zoning application, no traffic or security plan has been presented,

Similar wording

and we believe there is a specific detrimental impact by the traffic and congestion this skilled facility will bring to the park and surrounding roads.

Similar wording

We support the master plan, but we do have concerns about this application.

Similar wording

We implore the zoning board to consider a requirement for an alternative that would mitigate these concerns.

Similar wording

We have a plan that we believe would save 30% of the heritage trees, 14 to 15 of the trees specifically.

Similar wording

It would give four high-quality multi-use courts, three basketball courts, and this parking provision as detailed.

Similar wording

I also wish to just address some misconceptions and statements that were made on the record that

Similar wording

I believe were inaccurate. Contrary to the accusations that were made, we have only

Similar wording

actively sought information and engaged in dialogue since receiving the plans. We only

Similar wording

received the plans on November 14th. We asked questions on November 20th and again on December

Similar wording

18th. We received an email from Fairmount Park Conservancy on January 3rd saying that it would

Similar wording

require them until mid-January to get us a response. On January 11th, they asked for a meeting on

Similar wording

January 27th. We had that meeting and accommodated their schedules and we hosted our public RCO

Similar wording

meeting two weeks later. We are committed to transparency as a community group.

Similar wording

I would also like to clarify for the Zoning Board our process at the public meeting.

Similar wording

We have been accused that our process was exclusionary as we only permitted paying

Similar wording

members to vote and allow members to be from the city of, and we allow members, I'm sorry,

Similar wording

we allow members to be from beyond the city of Philadelphia. As a park that attracts 4.5 million

Similar wording

visitors per annum, it's probably actually higher than that because it's just based on cell phone

Similar wording

data, it is clear that we are a regionally significant park and we have many supporters

Similar wording

from all over the region. We also follow the guidance as outlined in the Park Friends document

Similar wording

issued by the Fairmont Park Conservancy, which recommends that you charge people a membership fee

Similar wording

in order to be part of a friends group. This is exactly in line with their guidance and

Similar wording

recommendations. Otherwise, things would just become a popularity contest depending on specific

Similar wording

issues that were raised. Lastly, I urge the board to recognize the true value of the area under

Similar wording

discussion. It was stated in the previous hearing that it was, quote, an informal dog park,

Similar wording

I'm sorry, an informal dog run or soil stockpile. That is frankly just not true. This area is used

Similar wording

by thousands of people for various recreational activities, birding, picnicking, playing,

Similar wording

walking. There's organized walking groups that use this area each and every single week. I was

Similar wording

THIS AREA ON SUNDAY AND RAN INTO HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE IN THIS PART OF THE PARK. THIS IS NOT JUST

Similar wording

A DOG RUN OR STOIL STOCKPILE. WE BELIEVE THAT THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE PLAN THAT HONORS THE

Similar wording

SPIRIT OF THE MASTER PLAN, A DESIRE FOR HIGH QUALITY SPORTS FIELDS AND ALSO THE CONCERNS OF OUR

Similar wording

COMMUNITY. AND WE URGE THE ZONING BOARD TO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION IN TODAY'S CONVERSATION.

Similar wording

So thank you very much for the time for us to share our concerns.

Similar wording

Thank you for your comments.

Similar wording

Go to the virtual audience, please.

Similar wording

Chair, we have Cynthia O'Keefe.

Similar wording

They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Hi, good afternoon.

Similar wording

Good afternoon.

Similar wording

Could you state your name and spell, please, for the court sonographer?

Similar wording

Yes, it's Cynthia, C-Y-N-T-H-I-A.

Similar wording

o'keefe is o apostrophe k e e f e do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing

Similar wording

but the truth i do are you a neighbor uh i'm not a neighbor i live in bergen county new jersey and

Similar wording

Uh, I'm not a neighbor. I live in Bergen County, New Jersey in Ridgewood, and I'm an interested party.

Similar wording

And, um,

Similar wording

All right. So, so, so let, so let me ask you this. Are you for this or against the project?

Similar wording

I'm against it.

Similar wording

Okay. And give us, if you can, give us something different than what we've heard from the last two people, if that's possible.

Similar wording

Sure. I certainly will.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

As a resident of Ridgewood, New Jersey, I'm increasingly concerned about the many parallels that are projects within not only New Jersey.

Similar wording

Obviously, it's the very same situation that is happening with this park.

Similar wording

And as one of the earlier callers spoke before, it's bad karma.

Similar wording

The Fairmont Park Conservancy website says you believe in the power of open spaces and the importance of nature to urban communities.

Similar wording

But from the what I understand about this project is that you're taking nature away.

Similar wording

And so leveling trees that provide clean air and then installing plastic playing fields, which we all know have been, you know, understood to be toxic.

Similar wording

And every day information comes out about the toxic nature and forever chemicals.

Similar wording

Hold on. Hold on. Hold on a minute, please.

Similar wording

We've had testimony about that.

Similar wording

So could you concentrate on what you think is different that you know about this project?

Similar wording

Well, what I know about this project is that, well, I don't know if there's a stormwater runoff plan related to the toxic turf fields.

Similar wording

I also, you know, I'm against the leveling of the heritage trees.

Similar wording

And so I wanted to state my objection for the record.

Similar wording

and um obviously you seem like you want to cut me off so if that's the case no i don't want to cut

Similar wording

you off but what i'm trying to do is concentrate on other points that have already been made

Similar wording

so no i don't want to cut you off okay well to sum it up i don't agree with leveling that amount

Similar wording

of trees we obviously need them for our environment it's part of what should be considered

Similar wording

important in an open space plan. And again, I believe turf is toxic, and you should reevaluate

Similar wording

those plans. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to calls.

Similar wording

Next hand, please. Chair, we have Candace, last name beginning with an L. They have been unmuted

Similar wording

and allowed to speak. Hi, could you please state your name and spell it for the court's stenographer?

Similar wording

Good afternoon, everyone.

Similar wording

It's Candice, C-A-N-D-I-C-E.

Similar wording

My last name is DeTore, D-E, capital T-O-R-E.

Similar wording

You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I am.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Please proceed.

Similar wording

Are you for or against this project?

Similar wording

I am 100% against this project.

Similar wording

Well, thank you.

Similar wording

If that's the case, could you try to concentrate on something different than what we've already

Similar wording

heard?

Similar wording

Because we have heard from the first two presentations were kind of inclusive.

Similar wording

So if you can think of something different.

Similar wording

Well, with all due respect for, I think my opinion as a local resident is just as valid, but I promise you I will keep it quick.

Similar wording

I just want to say I've sat by for years and years and watched more and more areas of my beloved park get taken over for private sports fields that then become inaccessible to the public.

Similar wording

The last thing we need in our neighborhood is more sports fields.

Similar wording

And to think that someone thinks that sports fields would better accompany one of the oldest houses, yes, the oldest, in South Philadelphia would be better than that trees is an absolute disgrace.

Similar wording

We don't need more people coming into our neighborhood.

Similar wording

We don't need more sports fields.

Similar wording

And none of us here in this meeting will be alive to see any of the newly planted trees become the size of the trees that you want to cut down.

Similar wording

Not you specifically.

Similar wording

And so, yes, I'm against it, and I'm here to protect my beloved park.

Similar wording

Thank you for your time.

Similar wording

Thank you for calling in.

Similar wording

We appreciate it.

Similar wording

Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Next hand is Danielle Nelson.

Similar wording

They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi.

Similar wording

Hello.

Similar wording

Hi.

Similar wording

Hi.

Similar wording

Good afternoon.

Similar wording

Could you state your name, please, and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

It's Danielle Nelson.

Similar wording

That's D-A-N-I-E-L-L-E.

Similar wording

and nelson is n-e-l-s-o-n all right do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing

Similar wording

but the truth yes are you a neighbor yes uh are you for or against this project i am for the project

Similar wording

okay could you please let us know your comments um as being a neighbor i've been in the area for

Similar wording

years my children go to this park um we have family functions at the park we have like sports

Similar wording

Um, we have family functions at the park. We have like sports themes. We just like to go to the park

Similar wording

themes we just like

Similar wording

to have fun. My children go to a daycare near the park and we have family fun day every year. It's

Similar wording

just supportive of the family to show their appreciation, you know, for the kids coming to

Similar wording

the daycare. So I think that more, um, you know, things for the children to do at the park would

Similar wording

suit the park because it is a park and it's a family park. Okay. Uh, thank you very much for

Similar wording

taking time to close. We appreciate it. Next hand, please. We have David Gibson. They have been

Similar wording

allowed to speak. Hi, could you state your name, please, and spell it for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Can you hear me? I can. David Gibson, David, D-A-V-I-D, Gibson, G-I-B-S-O-N. Right. You

Similar wording

swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I certainly do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor? I am. Are you for this project or against? I'm opposed to the special

Similar wording

exception. Okay, and could you let us know if there's something different than what you've

Similar wording

already heard? Well, first of all, I'm in agreement with the Conservancy and with the experts that

Similar wording

acknowledge the park is experiencing groundwater flooding, but I'm in disagreement about how to

Similar wording

address this issue. It's practical and irresponsible to spend millions of dollars trying to engineer a

Similar wording

high and dry athletic zone inside a 100-year flood zone in the age of rising tides. A more

Similar wording

practical approach would be to decrease the hardscaping install boardwalks facilitate more

Similar wording

passive recreation there are better places for fields in our city places where grass fields

Similar wording

would solve the field crisis and add additional green space to our city rather than destroying

Similar wording

it um also i i bike down there all the time and you know i would just it's just a beautiful space

Similar wording

pretty wild i like it the way it is i don't want to see it change please tell the conservancy to

Similar wording

design a better alternative. I'm sure there are many other alternatives. Pretty much what I have

Similar wording

to say. Thank you very much for your comments. Next hand, please. Here we have Elowen Corbyn.

Similar wording

They have been unmuted and allowed to speak. Hello. Hi, good afternoon. Could you state your

Similar wording

name, please, and spell it for the court stenographer? Sure. It's an unusual one.

Similar wording

That's okay.

Similar wording

Elowen Corby, E-L-O-W-Y-N.

Similar wording

Last name Corby, C-O-R-B as in boy, Y.

Similar wording

You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I am.

Similar wording

I live in Point Breeze.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Are you in favor of this project or against it?

Similar wording

In opposition, against it.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And there's been a lot of testimony.

Similar wording

is there anything additional you can offer yes there is i will do this all right so almost 19

Similar wording

000 people have already collectively signed petitions in opposition to this plan both rcos

Similar wording

have voted overwhelmingly against it and they've submitted hundreds of letters of opposition

Similar wording

none of the fdr plan has ever been discussed before city council there have been no hearings

Similar wording

called. The Parks Commission hasn't had any public meetings since 2019. It is wrong that a privately

Similar wording

funded non-government entity like the Conservancy can clear-cut this much public space without an

Similar wording

explicit mandate from the public. Too many people have been disqualified and silenced from even

Similar wording

making a comment here. It is shameful and it is undemocratic. I would like to see the board

Similar wording

ask the Conservancy for a range of alternative plans that would save some of these trees.

Similar wording

Thank you very much for calling us and taking the time.

Similar wording

Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Here we have Adam Woods.

Similar wording

They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, good afternoon.

Similar wording

Could you state your name and spell, please, for the court sonographer?

Similar wording

My name is Adam Woods, A-D-A-M-W-O-O-D-S.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I am. I live in South Philly.

Similar wording

Are you in favor of this project or against?

Similar wording

I am opposed to this project.

Similar wording

Okay. And you've heard a lot of testimony before you. Is there anything different in your opposition that we haven't heard?

Similar wording

Yeah, I would just like to state that this plan undermines the Philly tree plan, which states that the preservation of our existing canopy is a primary goal for the city.

Similar wording

It undermines the Philadelphia Tree Canopy Assessment, which found that between 2008 and 2018, Philadelphia lost 6% of its canopy.

Similar wording

It undermines the Philadelphia Climate Action Playbook, which states that we need to use nature as a solution and that trees help remove carbon pollution while managing heat, clearing pollutants from the air, and managing stormwater runoff.

Similar wording

clearing pollutants from the air, and managing stormwater runoff.

Similar wording

It's as if one hand of the city doesn't know or consider important what the other is doing

Similar wording

it's as if

Similar wording

or the goals it has set.

Similar wording

The field crisis is real, but we should not be forced to choose between our fields and

Similar wording

our natural resources.

Similar wording

These fields need to be put in neighborhoods where kids can actually access them and where

Similar wording

they do not require the demolition of our green spaces.

Similar wording

Thanks for listening.

Similar wording

Thank you for your comments.

Similar wording

Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Chair, we have Whitney Peeling. They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Hi.

Similar wording

Hi, could you state your name and spell it, please, for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

For Whitney Peeling. That's W-H-I-T-N-E-Y-P, like Peter, E-E-L-I-N-G.

Similar wording

Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I am. I live in South Philly.

Similar wording

Are you in favor of this project or against?

Similar wording

I am against.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And you've heard a lot of people testify prior to you.

Similar wording

Is there anything different that you could offer to us?

Similar wording

Yeah, a bit different.

Similar wording

At the moment, these trees are the only thing standing in the way of the rollout of more toxic artificial turf.

Similar wording

And the dangers of that turf have been repeatedly documented locally in the Enquirer and in publications worldwide, including peer-reviewed journals.

Similar wording

The introduction of that turf would introduce toxic PFAS chemicals and microplastics into the surrounding ecosystem and have a negative effect on our children's health, including my own child.

Similar wording

um it's going to poison our kids and we can't talk about supporting our young people while

Similar wording

installing toxic turf at the same time and these turf companies they're profiting off of our

Similar wording

children while robbing them of good help good health sorry and a habitable planet and i'd like

Similar wording

the board to require the conservancy to go back to the drawing board thank you very much for your

Similar wording

comments and taking the time is there well who's the next hand please chair the next hand is dito

Similar wording

van rigersburg they have been unmuted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

hi could you state your name please and spell for the court sonographer

Similar wording

hello it's mary long it's dito d-i-t-o another word van v-a-n another word rigersburg r-e-i

Similar wording

G-E-R-S

Similar wording

B-E-R-G

Similar wording

You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth

Similar wording

and nothing but the truth

Similar wording

I do

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I am, I live in South Korea

Similar wording

Are you in favor of this project or against?

Similar wording

I'm against

Similar wording

Okay, and we've had quite a bit of reasons why

Similar wording

Is there anything different in your

Similar wording

comments?

Similar wording

Yes

Similar wording

I want to talk about water

Similar wording

So, raising the level of the park and displacing immersion and existing wetland with parking

Similar wording

lots and plastic turf will displace water into other areas, and water will always go

Similar wording

somewhere. So, in addition, the former refinery site is being raised to the west by Hillco.

Similar wording

The Army Corps of Engineers is proposing to build levees to raise the Schuylkill banks.

Similar wording

the navy yard is bringing in fill and raising every building they construct to the southeast

Similar wording

so collectively these developments will intensify flooding throughout south philly

Similar wording

where we have used where we used to have a permeable buffer at the golf course that

Similar wording

absorbed the water we will now have a giant concrete and plastic built environment that

Similar wording

endangers neighborhoods where people live so i'm asking that you please consider how many reasons

Similar wording

there are to mandate a viable alternative to the current iteration of this plan thank you for your

Similar wording

comments next hand please here we have someone by the name of shandell they have been unmuted and

Similar wording

allowed to speak sure hello how are you could you state your name please and spell for the court

Similar wording

stenographer. My name is Shandell Jackson. First name S-H-A-N-D-E-L-L. Last name Jackson. J-A-C-K-S-O-N.

Similar wording

You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I affirm. Are you a neighbor? Yes. Are you for this project or against? I am for this project.

Similar wording

Could you, we've had one other person testify today. Could you offer us anything different

Similar wording

than what you've already heard? I just want to say to y'all, this is a project. So this

Similar wording

for us this is our home family of many generations has come here this place is where our family gets

Similar wording

Family of many generations has come here. This place is where our family gets together and have family outings and have family day for us.

Similar wording

together and have out

Similar wording

The FDR Park could be better, have a better place for the youth, a place where we can say that our superstars started from their basketball or football career as children.

Similar wording

It's a shame that we have to travel to a place like the Chamonix Park when we actually have the great space here.

Similar wording

There are places like Lake Point in Georgia that serves 30 sports sports year round places like Grand Park that started on the cornfield and now has 26 baseball, softball, diamond, 31 multipurpose field of soccer, football and lacrosse and just added basketball and volleyball, not to mention having food and beverage service on their site and on site restaurant.

Similar wording

Why can't our youth have the same and share better things in life, especially when we have the area to do so?

Similar wording

There are plenty of athletics people from Philly, but one named Rasul Butler is currently from South Philadelphia.

Similar wording

Let's create more stars. The children deserve it, and we must start by making things better.

Similar wording

Thank you for taking the time to call us. We appreciate that.

Similar wording

Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Tara, the next person is Beatrice Zovich. They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

I thank you. Could you state your name, please, and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes, Beatrice Zovich. Beatrice is B-E-A-T-R-I-C-E, Zovich, Z-O-V-I-C-H.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Are you for this project or against?

Similar wording

Against.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Is there anything additional that you haven't heard to tell us?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Go ahead.

Similar wording

So I would like to draw your attention to the sports complex on city-owned land proposed to undergo a $2.5 billion renovation, which finds room for hotels, restaurants, and entertainment venues, but not a single field for our children, which is literally across the street from FDR Park.

Similar wording

I would also like to mention a vacant lot at 3100 South Christopher Columbus Boulevard, as well as a vacant lot just across Patterson Avenue at 3400 South Broad Street, both of which are over a million square feet.

Similar wording

When we zoom out and look at these vacant lots, it's clear that the city has space for recreational fields.

Similar wording

So why are we being forced to choose between our children and our natural resources?

Similar wording

Why is the city forcing more development in South Philly's most precious green space?

Similar wording

The city needs to do better. Please tell the Conservancy to go back to the drawing board.

Similar wording

This plan is not a good one. Thank you very much. Thank you for taking the time. Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Chair, the next person is Sherelle Robinson. They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Could you state your name, please, and spell for the stenographer?

Similar wording

Hi, my name is Sherelle Robinson. His first name is spelled S as in Sam, H-E-R-E-L-L, last name R-O-B-I-N-S-O-N.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I affirm.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes, the same zip code.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Could you, are you for or against this project?

Similar wording

For the project.

Similar wording

You've heard a couple of people prior to you.

Similar wording

Is there anything additional you'd want to offer?

Similar wording

I'll try my best.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Generally, I feel that adding the improvements to FDR Park would actually contribute to making Philadelphia more resilient

Similar wording

against what it is facing and what it could face. And that's regarding quality of life,

Similar wording

the climate issues health-wise. I think it could be a sort of park-based intervention

Similar wording

on health in Philadelphia, because one of the top two causes in Philly is in relation to

Similar wording

cardiovascular issues and the disparities in the communities that are nearby that use the parks

Similar wording

will be positively affected. I think it's effective land management, climate-wise,

Similar wording

addressing the groundwater flooding, creating recreation access will improve the chronic

Similar wording

illnesses or even mental health outcomes of locals who come, like myself and my two children,

Similar wording

one who's neurodiverse. And actually improving health outcomes could probably improve quality

Similar wording

of life issues and community discourse from increased stress. And economically, I think

Similar wording

that it would be viewed as an extra amenity. It could invite other visitors, which obviously

Similar wording

would make money for local businesses and also improve the outside view of the area,

Similar wording

which we kind of have a bad rep right now, especially South Philly. Respectfully, I think

Similar wording

that it's a bit irresponsible to see the issues that FDR Park has seen progressively over time

Similar wording

and not be proactive. I think that plans for public spaces have to be in favor

Similar wording

of improving and maintaining all life, not just animal and plant life, human life as well.

Similar wording

human life as well. And we can do that with increased recreation space. Like there has to

Similar wording

And we can do that with increased recreation space. There has to be

Similar wording

be a balance, a balanced consideration of all inhabitants of the space, not just plant and

Similar wording

animal life in the space. And I think that the plan does that by keeping two thirds of the space

Similar wording

green. And but the but nature has to share. We have to inhabit the park as well. So one third

Similar wording

of the recreational space will help at least the 100 over 100,000 locals in the south part of

Similar wording

Philadelphia. And I think that lastly, just as we have to, sometimes we have to shed a historic tie

Similar wording

in order to make way for a better serving future. So just as we have to shed baby teeth to make room

Similar wording

for better serving teeth, so it'll help us take in more nourishment, I think FDR Park has to do

Similar wording

that and share. And I think disallowing the new bill could actually continue the confinement of

Similar wording

us into spaces that are hazardous, not functional, or spaces

Similar wording

that just don't support recreation. And that's not fair to us

Similar wording

who've been here our whole lives. Thank you very much for taking

Similar wording

the time to call us. We appreciate it. Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Next hand, Chair, is Fred Stein. They have been

Similar wording

unmuted. How many more hands do you see?

Similar wording

After Mr. Stein, we have 1, 2, 3, 4,

Similar wording

5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Looks like 11 more heads after Mr. Stein's here.

Similar wording

Sir, could you please state your name and spell for the court's

Similar wording

phonographer?

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

It's Fred Stein, F-R-E-D-S-T-I-N-E.

Similar wording

I'm with the Delaware.

Similar wording

Go ahead.

Similar wording

Go ahead.

Similar wording

You go first.

Similar wording

Go ahead.

Similar wording

I was just launching right in, but I should swear in.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I am not.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

No, I am not.

Similar wording

I work with an environmental organization, the Delaware Riverkeeper Network.

Similar wording

I do serve on a board in the community, the East with the neighbors.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Are you in favor of this project or against?

Similar wording

I'm against.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And you've heard a lot of testimony prior.

Similar wording

Is there anything additional you can offer?

Similar wording

Yes, I think I do.

Similar wording

So we've heard a lot of information about the environmental impact about building floodplains,

Similar wording

cutting down trees, and how that will impact flooding and stormwater runoff.

Similar wording

Much of my presentation was going to echo that, but to respect everyone's time,

Similar wording

I would only recommend that or add to that that many government agencies, universities, and entities throughout the region and the world agree with that.

Similar wording

In order to prepare for climate change and to create a sustainable green city, you have to maintain the natural environment.

Similar wording

And that comes from a Philadelphia city report called Growing Stronger Toward a Climate-Ready Philadelphia. They talk strongly about protecting open space and the natural environment.

Similar wording

And that's echoed by the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission in their cost effects of climate change in southeast Pennsylvania.

Similar wording

They reiterate that, and I could submit this written comment so these quotes from these entities are on the record.

Similar wording

Drexel University has put together a large consortium, including the city, and have come up with the same conclusion.

Similar wording

So it's not just coming from an environmental community perspective, but agencies and universities that are committed to protecting the public safety and health of the city are all in favor of protecting these trees and the hundreds and hundreds of more smaller ones that don't get the classification as heritage trees.

Similar wording

and all the hundreds of acres that will be lost by putting artificial turf down.

Similar wording

Cutting down the trees is not a sustainable practice.

Similar wording

Filling wetlands and natural meadows is not a sustainable practice.

Similar wording

Covering open space with artificial turf is not a sustainable practice.

Similar wording

FDR Park is already essentially a bathtub with elevated perimeters around Patterson Avenue, Broad Street, the enclaves and 95.

Similar wording

The Conservancy's plan will be filling, bringing in acre or many, many tons of earth to build these sports fields to take up space within that bathtub that's going to displace the water.

Similar wording

to take up space within that bathtub that's going to displace the water.

Similar wording

I would only want to, my final point would be is the youth of Philadelphia definitely need outdoor

Similar wording

recreational open space. The natural open space on the west side of the park can and does provide

Similar wording

that. There's no arguing that organized sports can benefit thousands of youth, but city residents

Similar wording

should not be forced to choose between natural open space that enhances their quality of life

Similar wording

and recreating on plastic surfaces that science has shown can cause its own health problems.

Similar wording

Thank you very much. Thank you for taking the time. Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Here we have Cameron Powell. They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Hi, this is Cameron Powell, C-A-M-E-R-O-N-P-O-W-E-L-L.

Similar wording

Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Are you in favor of this project or against?

Similar wording

I'm against.

Similar wording

Okay. We've had a lot of testimony. Is there anything different that you could add?

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

First of all, just to say that it's dumb, right?

Similar wording

I mean, I would hope you could just give us more than it's dumb.

Similar wording

Well, I would if you'd allow me to keep speaking.

Similar wording

Yeah.

Similar wording

So it's dumb to say, hmm, we already have an entire portion of our lovely city

Similar wording

dedicated to sports arenas, Wells Fargo Center, the link, et cetera.

Similar wording

But we choose to demolish.

Similar wording

Now, I don't know anybody on the zoning board personally, but it seems that you folks must not be from Philadelphia because you would know that FDR Park is a local treasure.

Similar wording

Nothing like it in all the city.

Similar wording

And you choose to demolish and destroy this green space.

Similar wording

The zoning board doesn't do that.

Similar wording

The zoning board doesn't do that.

Similar wording

We're listening for testimony as to why you don't think it should.

Similar wording

the tree well it's a surprise to me because you guys aren't advocating against it once again

Similar wording

we're here on both sides that's what we're here for to hear both sides sir okay well no not okay

Similar wording

that's where we are we're here about one thing about the trees and that's okay it's about the

Similar wording

trees it it should be self-evident that there are better alternatives for this thing to happen

Similar wording

it's like

Similar wording

when you folks that get put

Similar wording

in these positions of power

Similar wording

you're against the project

Similar wording

thank you very much

Similar wording

next hand

Similar wording

Chair we have Judy Stepanowski

Similar wording

she's been unmuted

Similar wording

and allowed to speak

Similar wording

Hi could you state your name please

Similar wording

and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

do we see her hand yes miss stepanowski could you please unmute yourself

Similar wording

okay hi hi could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

judith stepanowski s-t-e-p as in paul e-n-a-s-k-i-e you swear or firm to tell the truth

Similar wording

the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes i do um are you a neighbor no i'm not

Similar wording

okay uh are you for this project or against the project opposed okay is there anything

Similar wording

additional than what we've already heard yes yes okay i'm i am a city resident and i've used

Similar wording

the park many times okay i'm a birder and one of the things fairmount park i mean fdr park is

Similar wording

one of the top three philadelphia birding areas based on the number of recorded species

Similar wording

228 species have been recorded in the park, many of them migratory with limited options for places to rest and feed in the area.

Similar wording

There's also a great number of breeding birds in the park.

Similar wording

Mature trees are extremely important to breeding and migratory birds.

Similar wording

And the biggest reason for the loss in bird life, we've had over 3 million birds lost in the U.S. since 1970.

Similar wording

The biggest reason is loss of habitat.

Similar wording

And these trees in FDR Park provide valuable bird habitat.

Similar wording

at the city of Philadelphia in.

Similar wording

The city of Philadelphia in 2002 signed on to the Urban Conservation Treaty for Migratory Birds.

Similar wording

This is a treaty with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and the city of Philadelphia was the third city in the country to sign on to this treaty.

Similar wording

and by doing this there they said they would make a strong commitment to migratory bird conservation

Similar wording

um the treaty is dedicated to conserving birds in or passing through our cities through a variety

Similar wording

of means meaning habitat conservation primarily but also education um conservation and working

Similar wording

to conserve, protect, and restore and enhance the tree habitat. Philadelphia is positioned

Similar wording

along the Atlantic Flyway at the intersection of numerous migration routes, making it a

Similar wording

particularly important city in terms of the vast number of migrants passing through and

Similar wording

the need to ensure the availability of habitat where birds can quickly restore depleted energy

Similar wording

resources.

Similar wording

In 2009, the city made a renewal commitment to the Urban Bird Conservation Treaty, and

Similar wording

the city received a $70,000 grant funding as part of their commitment to restore, conserve,

Similar wording

and protect valuable bird habitat within Philadelphia.

Similar wording

um let's see um the taking of the mature trees is is totally contrary to philadelphia's role

Similar wording

and and as a signer of this treaty um mature trees are critical for supporting birds they

Similar wording

cannot simply be replaced by planting younger trees mature trees are also important in

Similar wording

fighting climate change. A tree takes about 30 years until it reaches maturity, at which point

Similar wording

it absorbs the most carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Trees absorb about 40 percent of

Similar wording

the human-produced carbon dioxide from our atmosphere. By replacing mature trees with

Similar wording

smaller trees, they cannot compare in any way to the amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by the

Similar wording

mature trees. Mature trees also provide shade and cooling of the local environment.

Similar wording

South Philadelphia with the sports complex, which actually used to be, I've just recently learned,

Similar wording

the sports complex was part of FDR Park initially, and that was taken to develop

Similar wording

the sports stadiums.

Similar wording

South Philadelphia is

Similar wording

totally, almost

Similar wording

totally built

Similar wording

hard

Similar wording

space, blacktop,

Similar wording

particularly with the sports stadiums

Similar wording

and the many parking lots nearby.

Similar wording

These contribute to

Similar wording

warming of the environment.

Similar wording

By taking

Similar wording

the trees, they are

Similar wording

going to be

Similar wording

reducing the cooling of the environment.

Similar wording

In particular with turf fields, it makes it even worse.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Turf fields are 30 to 55 degrees warmer than natural gas fields.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

So obviously you gave us a lot of information.

Similar wording

We appreciate your call and appreciate the interest you have in this.

Similar wording

Could I have the next hand, please?

Similar wording

Chair, the next hand is Michael Schreiber. They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Sir, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Mr. Schreiber.

Similar wording

Michael Schreiber.

Similar wording

Move to the next hand.

Similar wording

chair the next hand is dina willow they have been unmuted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

hello everyone how are you today hi could you please state your name and spell for the court

Similar wording

sonographer yes my name is dina willow d fidelto d-e-f-e-d-e-l-t-o i am a caretaker at the meadows

Similar wording

which was originally actually called the woodlands okay you swear well hold on one minute hold on

Similar wording

one minute. Do you swear or affirm? No, no, that's okay. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,

Similar wording

the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. So I'm going to try to, um, try to keep it

Similar wording

try to keep it short. I know. Are you a neighbor? Oh, I am. Yes. So not only am I a neighbor,

Similar wording

short. Are you a neighbor? Oh, I am. Yeah. So not only am I a neighbor,

Similar wording

but I'm a neighbor actually on both ends of the park. So growing up in Southwest Philadelphia

Similar wording

and Eastwick and then residing as an adult in South Philly and back and forth taking care of

Similar wording

my parents. Are you in favor of the project? I am a hundred percent against it. Okay. Could you tell

Similar wording

us something different than what we've already done? I can. I can. So I'm going to start by saying

Similar wording

that the pollution in the neighborhoods surrounding the parameter of FDR really is off the charts.

Similar wording

My father's dead, so are countless of my neighbors. One person in every household on my street has

Similar wording

died of cancer, and the rest are suffering with like debilitating issues, health issues.

Similar wording

The community surrounding the park are South and Southwest Philly, and we've actually been deemed

Similar wording

a cancer cluster. And all because we're in close proximity to the Sunoco Hilco refinery.

Similar wording

I mean, it's right across from FDR, literally. The Philadelphia Water Department, the sewage,

Similar wording

their chemical methane that burns constantly, the landfill that it was even built on,

Similar wording

our whole area, we're poisoned by the airport fuel and the radiation constantly.

Similar wording

And now that all those canopies of trees were cut down in front of I-95 at FDR, my God, it's like you can't even walk around that.

Similar wording

It's terrible.

Similar wording

I know we're living on DuPont illegal dumping grounds.

Similar wording

I mean, it's crazy, the area.

Similar wording

And FDR Park is literally just, it was this beautiful green space in a sea of concrete, right?

Similar wording

And I believe that our neighborhoods are under attack.

Similar wording

and the underprivileged children, they deserve nature and clean air too, okay? My father is dead.

Similar wording

I've had 26 surgeries because of this pollution. The only thing that is going to save us are those

Similar wording

heritage trees. We all know there's a lot of corruption. There's a lot of gaslighting. I mean,

Similar wording

it's just common sense. It doesn't take a genius, okay? But like, at what point do we say like,

Similar wording

guys, enough is enough. I'm telling you, we can't breathe. We can't open our windows.

Similar wording

You walk to your car, you have to cover your face in the morning. These trees are all that

Similar wording

saves us. And all the nonsense that is going on in our society today and everything that's

Similar wording

happening and all the chaos, this place truly was a sanctuary for the neighbors and for our

Similar wording

community and the wildlife there um that has that that calls that place home i mean there's that's

Similar wording

really all that's left the deer um the fox the eagle's nests i mean these are all part it's an

Similar wording

ecosystem and if you if you cut down these heritage trees if you continue destroying this

Similar wording

natural wetland and that and and that untouched developed woodlands if they continue to destroy

Similar wording

this like that's going to make our our community and our brothers and our sisters sicker and sicker

Similar wording

and then that turns into a genocide like this is my like this is my family i can't even get my mom

Similar wording

to move because she's too old and she doesn't want to leave her doctors and why are there why are

Similar wording

there real estate developers on the board of the fairmount park conservancy why are there real

Similar wording

estate developers i think i want to concentrate on on the trees in the park and okay well i just

Similar wording

appreciate everything you've said. Thank you. Thank you for hearing me. And another thing I

Similar wording

want to understand that we signed, I believe that the FPC signed a treaty with the Lenape

Similar wording

and a treaty of renewed friendship and that they're supposed to protect this land. They're

Similar wording

supposed to protect these trees. So how is this happening? You know, it's happening because the

Similar wording

same people who are on these boards are making a percentage of privatizing this land. They're

Similar wording

getting the percentage of it and that's insane you cannot you cannot defend our land if you're

Similar wording

getting a percentage to develop it miss willow i understand where you are on this and and and

Similar wording

thank you very much next hand please chair next hand is sarah anton they have been unmuted and

Similar wording

allowed to speak sure hi could you please state your name

Similar wording

Sarah, Anton, please unmute yourself.

Similar wording

Chair, I hear nothing.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Move on to the next hand, please.

Similar wording

Next, we have Kimberly Richards.

Similar wording

They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, could you state your name, please, and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Kimberly Richards, please unmute yourself.

Similar wording

Hi, hello.

Similar wording

Hi, could you state your name, please, and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Hi, could you state your name, please, and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Hi, Kimberly Richards.

Similar wording

Hi, Kimberly Hitcher, K-I-M-B-E-R-L-Y-R-I-C-H-A-R-D-S.

Similar wording

Right, do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Are you in favor of this project or against?

Similar wording

I am in favor of this project.

Similar wording

We've had quite a bit of testimony. Is there anything different that you could offer?

Similar wording

um i believe so um i'm in favor of this project because like there was said before

Similar wording

uh this park is like a staple in the community for our family

Similar wording

pardon me um we bring our family there for fun games and just to get together just to get away

Similar wording

from some of the stuff and the trauma in our neighborhoods it's just a peaceful place for us

Similar wording

to be. I feel as though the project would be beneficial so we don't have to travel out of

Similar wording

our own community to have, you know, like a beautiful space or beautiful scenery that

Similar wording

we would have to go to other places. I feel as though the center, the space would be beneficial

Similar wording

to other parts of the community, especially for the youth, to bring us like a better morale

Similar wording

in the city with the youth. They have a lot of issues with gun violence and things like that,

Similar wording

and they always talk about how the youth don't have anywhere to go. I feel like this place

Similar wording

would be a central spot where youth can meet up. We could do youth activities. We could come together

Similar wording

as a community. We could do events. I know people are worried about like the trees. We can do events

Similar wording

where we could plant new trees, clean up the community, you know, have youth days, things like

Similar wording

that. I just feel like it'll make the community a better place. All right. Thank you for taking

Similar wording

the time to call us. We appreciate it. Next hand, please. Jared, the next hand is Carol

Similar wording

Petratus. They have been muted and allowed to speak. Hello. Hi, could you state your name,

Similar wording

please, and spell for the court stenographer? It's Carol Petratus, C-A-R-O-L, and then Petratus

Similar wording

is p-e-t-r-a-i-t-i-s right you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the

Similar wording

truth i do are you a neighbor i am uh are you for this project or against it i'm against but i have

Similar wording

two sentences to say that are different from what other people have said you can say those two

Similar wording

sentences. Thank you. I'm a senior citizen that lives in the neighborhood. And this natural part

Similar wording

of the FDR park is the only accessible place that myself and my husband can go to, to be in

Similar wording

something approximating some wild nature. And that's the reason that we oppose the destruction

Similar wording

of these trees that support the whole environment

Similar wording

and area of FDR Park.

Similar wording

Thank you so much for taking the time to close.

Similar wording

Who's next?

Similar wording

Chair, we have Harrison Mace.

Similar wording

They have been allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Could you state your name, please,

Similar wording

and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Yep. Can you hear me?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Yeah, my name is Harrison Mace.

Similar wording

I don't know why it says maybe.

Similar wording

It's spelled H-A-R-R-I-S-O-N-M-A-C-E, Mace.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I am.

Similar wording

Are you for this or against?

Similar wording

Against.

Similar wording

Is there anything you're going to offer that we haven't heard?

Similar wording

Yep, definitely.

Similar wording

Go ahead.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Good afternoon, board.

Similar wording

My name is Harrison Mace.

Similar wording

I live near Broad and Ellsworth.

Similar wording

I'm an environmental justice professional, and this is the part that I take walks in for my mental health.

Similar wording

I want to thank you all for taking the time to listen to the public.

Similar wording

There haven't been a ton of meaningful ways for the public to express their concerns over time,

Similar wording

especially as more and more have surfaced, whether this version of the plan is the right one.

Similar wording

Sally McCabe of the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society,

Similar wording

recently honored for a sustainability award at Philly's only annual sustainability award ceremony,

Similar wording

talks about the difference between need-based design and asset-based design.

Similar wording

Needs-based community design focuses on deficits and looks to outside agencies for resources.

Similar wording

In contrast, asset-based community development focuses on honing and leveraging existing strengths within the community.

Similar wording

Looking at the world as a blank piece of paper for whatever you want to impose upon the people you are...

Similar wording

Looking at the world as a blank piece of paper for whatever you want to impose upon the people

Similar wording

you are charged with serving is an outdated approach to development. The current approach

Similar wording

is what got us into the climate crisis in the first place, and the Legislative and Oversight

Similar wording

Committee as part of city government just meant this month to learn how far off the city is

Similar wording

from meeting its 2050 carbon neutrality goal. I'd be happy to share more about this if it's

Similar wording

views to the board's decision. As mentioned by Adam earlier, the tree canopy declined a massive

Similar wording

6% between 2006 and 2018. Declined. And when the clear cutting of Cobbs Creek created countless

Similar wording

issues among neighbors, that number is not looking good from 2018. In fact, it was one of the reasons

Similar wording

council member and now majority leader Catherine Gilmore Richardson introduced the tree bill,

Similar wording

which passed unanimously. This legislation was created to act as the muscle behind the City

Similar wording

Council, the Office of Sustainability, and the organization Tree Philly to enforce the city's

Similar wording

stated goals around tree canopy. What should this law stand for? It represents something,

Similar wording

and your decision represents something too. It's 2024 today, and the time to consider what natural

Similar wording

and existing resources we have is more than overdue. I mean, even the fact that we are

Similar wording

discussing this very bill, which was passed in the time since this initial plan was conceived,

Similar wording

is testament to the fact that things change. No one on the Zoom will be alive by the time any

Similar wording

new saplings reach the level of climate sequestration that these 64-some-odd trees carry

Similar wording

today. And finally, because today the board is only considering the trees with this case,

Similar wording

I'd like you to require the Conservancy to revisit the drawing board around various alternatives that keep the trees in FDR around an asset-based design process.

Similar wording

Thank you for your consideration.

Similar wording

Thank you for your call.

Similar wording

Next hand, please.

Similar wording

Chair, we have Dan DiLoreto.

Similar wording

They have been unmuted.

Similar wording

How many more hands do you have?

Similar wording

We have five more, Chair.

Similar wording

Thank you very much.

Similar wording

Hi, could you state your name, please, and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

the name has disappeared chair okay go the next hand the next person is praise

Similar wording

itica they have been unmuted and allowed to speak i could you state your name please and spell for

Similar wording

the court stenographer yes my name is praise itica first name p-r-a-i-s-e praises and praise the

Similar wording

lord last name spelled i d is in dog i k a i are firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing

Similar wording

but the truth i do are you a neighbor i'm not a neighbor but i'm nearby and i use the park often

Similar wording

and i have a favorite project are you in favor or against i'm 100 against it and i have new

Similar wording

information to share i am a youth i am a youth and i've heard a lot of discussion on community

Similar wording

but it is very clear and evident the community does not include the indigenous people who are

Similar wording

native to this land nor the non-humans and there is a general tone of human superiority which is

Similar wording

distressing and quite frankly disrespectful to see. The only reason why we're in a climate

Similar wording

crisis is because people put humans above everything else and I've heard a lot of statistics

Similar wording

given on climate change and what different conservancies are doing for or against it.

Similar wording

But what I will say is we will not survive climate change if we are unwilling to change.

Similar wording

We have forced the earth to change over and over again. And this is yet another

Similar wording

project that is asking the earth to do unreasonable things for the gain and the greed of very few.

Similar wording

And it's disappointing, but not surprising to see that this is happening again. People have

Similar wording

been cut off, people not being allowed to share their comments. And I think that says a lot more

Similar wording

about what the goal of the project is rather than it being for a community. It's for a couple of

Similar wording

people to have a little bit more money in their pockets. And that's unfortunate because if people

Similar wording

will not center the earth in our projects going forward, none of us will be able to have a

Similar wording

comfortable life. So people need to be willing to be uncomfortable and become more creative with

Similar wording

thinking about what community spaces can look like if we all want to live long lives, not just

Similar wording

me as a youth, not just you as seniors or older people. We all need a place to live, and at the

Similar wording

end of the day, we cannot and we will never be able to create another earth. Thank you, and that's

Similar wording

all I have to say. Thank you for taking the time to call. Next hand, please. Chair, we have Anastasia

Similar wording

they have been unmuted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

Hello.

Similar wording

hello hi could you state your name please

Similar wording

Hi, could you state your name, please, and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Sure. My name is Anastasia Vrtsjanova. My last, my first name is spelled A-N-A-T-A-S-S-I-A, last name V-E-R-T-J-A-N-O-V-A.

Similar wording

Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I am.

Similar wording

Are you in favor of this project or against?

Similar wording

I am against.

Similar wording

Is there anything different that you have to offer at this point than what we've heard?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Please.

Similar wording

I hear a lot of the support for this project being in favor of the youth and for them to have recreational space.

Similar wording

I strongly agree with that.

Similar wording

I think it's very important.

Similar wording

I also spend time at this park and I see the children engaging with the play space.

Similar wording

I see that development, and I believe it's very important for children to have that green space.

Similar wording

We have a lot of other places in the city that have that.

Similar wording

Additionally, I was at the Lenape Prey ceremony for these trees and specifically was watching these children play, climb, interact,

Similar wording

which is something that I don't think can be done with recreational sports in this space.

Similar wording

Finally, I want to request that the board pay attention not only to the things that have been said by the citizens here who are for or against, but also to please pay attention to both the number of residents who are in opposition to this, as well as who is in opposition.

Similar wording

it's it's the neighbors it's those of us that live here um while uh many who are in support

Similar wording

are people who are affiliated with some of these uh sport leagues and people who can profit from

Similar wording

this so i really again urge the zoning board to pay attention uh to specifically um the the number

Similar wording

of people who are concerned and who care about the space thank you so much thank you for taking

Similar wording

the time to call us next hand chair we have lady danny morinich they have been unmuted and allowed

Similar wording

to speak how could you state your name please and spell for the course ethnographer

Similar wording

lady danny morinich please unmute yourself

Similar wording

danny morenick d-a-n-n-i last name m-o-r-i-n-i-c-h right do you swear or affirm to tell

Similar wording

the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do are you a neighbor i am not but i am

Similar wording

a local forager that has led over three dozen foraging walks in the park okay all right um

Similar wording

are you in favor of this project or against i'm against right we've had tremendous amount of

Similar wording

test money. I only need one minute, 30 seconds of your time, sir. You can have one minute,

Similar wording

30 seconds of my time, please. Thank you very much. There's a group in South Philly that

Similar wording

recycles human waste into universally usable product. It's eco-friendly, free, and the kind

Similar wording

of group that Mayor Parker would want to use as part of her clean and green initiative. But instead

Similar wording

of embracing it, it's being destroyed. And the group, they're called trees. Trees absorb the

Similar wording

carbon dioxide we exhale via photosynthesis and create oxygen. And as an added benefit,

Similar wording

they sequester carbon, keeping the area cooler, fix the soil, and filter water to keep it from

Similar wording

flooding into our sewer system. The leaves remove dangerous pollution, especially in neighborhoods

Similar wording

close to the highways, and can reduce ailments like asthma and heart disease, which are responsible

Similar wording

for about 5% of deaths worldwide. And older trees do this more effectively than the newly planted.

Similar wording

South Philadelphia is one of the hottest areas of the city, and the heat island effects can raise temperatures up to 22 degrees hotter than leafy suburban areas.

Similar wording

Removal of trees will increase that heat.

Similar wording

The International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health published an impact study of green space on violent crime in urban environments in 2019.

Similar wording

It synthesized findings of 45 papers deducing that the presence of parks and other green spaces reduces urban crime, specifically gun crime.

Similar wording

And that was echoed by a 2022 UPEM study that found a direct correlation between more trees and fewer shootings.

Similar wording

Based on this evidence, I would suggest that it's not a warehouse of artificial fields that we need in South Philly, but to plant and more importantly, preserve our large heritage trees.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you for taking the time to call us.

Similar wording

Next hand.

Similar wording

Chair, we have Randy Holman.

Similar wording

They have been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name?

Similar wording

Hello, my name is Randolph Holman, that's R-A-N-D-O-L-P-H, Holman, H-O-L-M-A-N.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm the tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor, sir?

Similar wording

Correct, I am.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Are you for this project or against?

Similar wording

I am for this project.

Similar wording

Is there anything that you haven't heard yet that you could offer differently?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

So I've been a lifelong resident of South Philadelphia.

Similar wording

I grew up in the area and I am one of the original members of the Anderson

Similar wording

Monarchs baseball team.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And on that same field, right, where I had the opportunity to play baseball,

Similar wording

gain lifelong friendships and learn sports and in the teachings of Jackie

Similar wording

Robinson, right, which I still use today.

Similar wording

On that field also was discovered a young lady named Monet Davis, right?

Similar wording

She went on to become famous around the country for playing baseball, one of the first female pitchers in Little League baseball and gained recognition for the whole city in this area for being an athlete.

Similar wording

And she's going on to do great things. Right. So that opportunity would not have been there if we didn't have those great parks and recreation fields that were maintained for us to play and become better athletes.

Similar wording

and in return become better people and better citizens, right?

Similar wording

So I'm advocating for the places for young people to grow,

Similar wording

not just in athletics, but in life, right?

Similar wording

This opportunity to have these fields, right,

Similar wording

that are not going to be affected by maybe like a rainstorm

Similar wording

where, okay, we can't enjoy the field today because it's flooded, right?

Similar wording

We want to give those kids opportunities to grow.

Similar wording

Right. And I think with this project, we can do that. Right.

Similar wording

And I think that long term solutions will be great for the community, not just the surrounding community, but but the city and further.

Similar wording

Because I noticed that. So those fields that's there, the baseball fields, Richie Ashburn and now called Dick Allen field.

Similar wording

I was one of the first teams to play on those fields. Right.

Similar wording

When the Phillies advocated and they gave you money, we played on those fields, right?

Similar wording

Much different than playing in Mary Anderson Recreation Center.

Similar wording

It was well-maintained, just like Mary Anderson was, thanks to Steve Bandura.

Similar wording

Those fields were well-maintained, and they've created a lot of great people,

Similar wording

not just athletes, but people, right?

Similar wording

And I think we can continue to do that, right, with more great spaces for athletics to grow.

Similar wording

Right. And I think it's a return on the city investment, not just not just for the local area, but for everyone.

Similar wording

When the city, when South Philly does well, I think, you know, everyone surrounding what does well.

Similar wording

Right. I've lived there my whole life. Like we know about Sunoco.

Similar wording

Right. We know about the congestion at the ballparks bring.

Similar wording

But don't forget, we love that. We love our force teams. Right.

Similar wording

We love the Phillies. We love the Flyers, Sixers and definitely love the Eagles.

Similar wording

and no complaints when that stadium sold out on a Sunday.

Similar wording

We all love it.

Similar wording

We can't wait for a Sunday.

Similar wording

So we shouldn't have a problem to see those fields flooded with people,

Similar wording

not water with people, over there having a good time playing sports.

Similar wording

That's how I feel.

Similar wording

I'm Randolph Holman, and I am for the athletic fields.

Similar wording

Mr. Holman, thank you for your call.

Similar wording

We appreciate you calling in.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Yvette?

Similar wording

Chair, we have Susan Patron.

Similar wording

they have been muted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

hi could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

my name is susan patrone s-u-s-a-n p-a-t-r-o-n-e right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth

Similar wording

the whole truth nothing but the truth i do are you a neighbor yes i am uh are you in favor of

Similar wording

this prosecutor against? I am opposed. Okay. And I know that you oppose it. Is there anything

Similar wording

different that you haven't heard yet today? Well, I, first of all, I, everyone has covered

Similar wording

most of the points. So I would just like to make one. Sure. I am a past president of Pashunk

Similar wording

Square Civic Association and also past president of Columbus Square Advisory Council. So I,

Similar wording

I know I'm familiar with a lot of what is process and what isn't.

Similar wording

I would just like to say that Barbara Capozzi and Lindsay Scantopico had covered very well what needs still to be covered in this process related to the RCOs.

Similar wording

I want to urge ZBA to deny this special exception and to bring it back to the civics, to the RCOs, and continue and make it.

Similar wording

to the civics, to the RCOs, and continue and make it even a more transparent process.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you for taking the time to call us.

Similar wording

We appreciate it.

Similar wording

Yvette?

Similar wording

Chair, we have Noah Sturridge.

Similar wording

They've been unmuted and allowed to speak.

Similar wording

Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Noah Sturridge?

Similar wording

go to the next hand please chair the next hand is sarah anton they've been unmuted and allowed to speak

Similar wording

I see it, but she's not a muting chair, Sarah Anton.

Similar wording

Oh, right after Patron. Do you love it?

Similar wording

Hi, could you state your name, please, and spell for the course stenographer?

Similar wording

sarah and time

Similar wording

chair i'm not getting any reply

Similar wording

go to the next hand

Similar wording

we have scott stallone they have been unmuted

Similar wording

hi could you state your name please and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

my name is scott stallone s-c-o-t-t-s-t-a-l-l-o-n-e

Similar wording

right do you swear a firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I am.

Similar wording

Are you in favor or against this project?

Similar wording

Dead set opposed, 100%.

Similar wording

Okay. Is there anything different you can offer than what we've heard?

Similar wording

A little bit. I'd like to rebut one of the prior comments, and that is specifically in reference to what happens on game day during Eagles season with regards to the FDR park.

Similar wording

It is left in a shambles. It is overrun by SUVs. People drive up on the grass. They destroy the place.

Similar wording

That is the mentality of the people who come to the park on Sundays from out of the area, from wherever they're coming, is I own a home in South Philadelphia.

Similar wording

I have maintained a separate office in South Philadelphia in a building owned by P. Agnes.

Similar wording

He is one of the largest developers in South Philadelphia for the last 21 years.

Similar wording

This is not good news for the residents of South Philadelphia.

Similar wording

This will bring all kinds of problems, environmentally, traffic.

Similar wording

We know about the PFAS.

Similar wording

This is a mess.

Similar wording

There are other places.

Similar wording

Nobody here is opposed to group sports.

Similar wording

I am an avid Philadelphia sports fan.

Similar wording

I love our teams.

Similar wording

I watch as many.

Similar wording

I consume as much as I can.

Similar wording

But when it comes down to having the space to do what it is that we need to do,

Similar wording

there's got to be a better way than this proposed project thank you thank you for taking on the

Similar wording

calls for that how many hands you have of that chair we have no more hands okay thank you um

Similar wording

planning commission well sorry one moment uh i think nicole um not nicole chair the hands that

Similar wording

are up are on the list right no no no there was one other one um noah noah yes he was trying to

Similar wording

get back on.

Similar wording

Noah Sturgis, please unmute yourself and wait for the chair.

Similar wording

Hi, Noah.

Similar wording

Noah Sturgis, please unmute yourself and wait for the chair.

Similar wording

I'm still not getting any replies here.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

No other hand, no other hands that were on our list, right?

Similar wording

Not on the list.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Planning commission.

Similar wording

Thank you, Chair Bergman.

Similar wording

And good afternoon, David Fecto, F-E-C-T-E-A-U.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, sir.

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Please proceed.

Similar wording

Thank you, sir.

Similar wording

Chairman and members of the board, the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the special purpose open space at this location.

Similar wording

This proposal enables the development of a major component of the Franklin Delano Roosevelt Park Master Plan after initial phases have already been completed or are underway.

Similar wording

The appellant has shown that the proposed project cannot be practically redesigned to protect the heritage trees that are currently on site.

Similar wording

the city planning commission recommends that the board grant the proposed special exception

Similar wording

for removal of 48 heritage trees the uh the board will take this under consideration

Similar wording

The the board will take this on the consideration and vote on this.

Similar wording

Excuse me, Mr. Chair, we should allow council of the applicant to respond to the testimony briefly and the planning recommendation if they wish, and then we can we can close the record.

Similar wording

Thank you. Please proceed. Which one? Matt?

Similar wording

Yeah, Mr. Chairman, thank you. I'm going to be very brief. A couple of things, just to correct the record. Plans were actually received by the RCOs back in October. Later at the request, we spent several hundred dollars, I think close to a thousand to set large printed color plans in multiple copies in November because I guess the electronic copies weren't good enough.

Similar wording

but we did that at Ardine. Again, we're proceeding here at Bowers Bar as Pro Voto Council because of

Similar wording

our support of this project. There were also 300 neighbors that signed petitions in support of the

Similar wording

project. We didn't have their names, but I just would like to confirm that they're part of the

Similar wording

record themselves, and they were a part of Kenyatta Johnson's support, those petitions that

Similar wording

one in um on the um issue of no reasonable alternative we totally agree with the planning

Similar wording

commission's uh opinion and we think that the the testimony that we got from our all our ecological

Similar wording

witnesses and landscape architects and like i think support that very well there's a lot of

Similar wording

competing concerns here on this site and we believe that we're approaching this in a very responsible

Similar wording

Pacific way. As for operational concerns about safety and traffic, they really do not relate

Similar wording

to the removal of heritage trees, obviously the removing of a tree. Here we're removing 48

Similar wording

heritage trees and replacing them with 1,000. That doesn't cause traffic. It's about removal

Similar wording

of trees. So again, there's over 1,000 additional trees that are being planted. I would note there

Similar wording

There was no refuting of the issues with the RCO meeting.

Similar wording

There was no refuting the fact that there were actually probably well over 100, if not more than 100, people that weren't able to vote at the meeting itself, even though they were clearly from the neighborhood.

Similar wording

Or that there were people who may not even be from the neighborhood, let alone the city, that got to vote because they were able to pay 25 hours.

Similar wording

Obviously, that's not how we're supposed to be running civic meetings, or at least we disagree with that approach.

Similar wording

um comments like we don't need people more people coming into the neighborhood we we find are very

Similar wording

sad obviously it's important these these fields are close by to public transportation which this

Similar wording

field is uh as a kid i used to go to fdr park and i didn't live in south philadelphia so i think it's

Similar wording

wonderful that we're having this opportunity um toxic issues regarding poisoning kids and pfas

Similar wording

Again, that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. And obviously, we refute the characterization, whether the fields are grass or whether they're artificial turf does not affect the issue of having to remove the trees in order to have the fields in order to deal with the plain need.

Similar wording

And the Parks and Rec Deputy Commissioner testified at the last time.

Similar wording

And then just to kind of remind folks here, because there's been a lot of stats that have been thrown out,

Similar wording

and maybe it's misinformation or, you know, a lot of things go out on the Internet that just aren't true.

Similar wording

The park's about 348 acres.

Similar wording

42 of those 340 acres are going to be used for fields in court.

Similar wording

105 acres are going to be used for wetlands and meadows.

Similar wording

64 acres actual water and again over a thousand trees are going to be planted so we rely upon

Similar wording

the testimony and evidence we prevent presented obviously we support the planning commission's

Similar wording

decision and thank councilman council president johnson for his support as well as the administration

Similar wording

thank you thank you um we're going to take this to next wednesday in our executive session

Similar wording

and uh in the next day or so all the letters that we received all the emails our council's

Similar wording

going to have them sent all the board members so that we can all review before next week's

Similar wording

meeting and we will vote on this next wednesday at 9 30 a.m and thank you to everybody who

Similar wording

all the time you spent waiting and um and council we thank you too thank you everyone

Similar wording

thank you mr chairman members of the board thank you

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you to the staff today for all the time you spent here.

Similar wording

We appreciate it.

Similar wording

Our pleasure, Chair.

Similar wording

Have a good night.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Good night, all.

Similar wording

Good night, team.

Similar wording

Good night.

Similar wording

Good night, everybody.

Similar wording