COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, October 16, 2007 1:15 p.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN DANIEL SAVAGE, CHAIR COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO RESOLUTION 070355 - Resolution authorizing the Committee on Licenses and Inspections to hold hearings to discuss possible improvements to the Department of Licenses and Inspections which would result in increased service efficiencies. - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good afternoon. The Committee of License and Inspections is now in session. Would the Clerk please read the resolution.
A resolution 8 authorizing the Committee on Licenses and Inspections to hold hearings to discuss possible improvements to the Department of Licenses and Inspections which would result in increased service efficiencies.
Today we have present Councilman Rizzo, Councilman Kelly, who sit on the Committee of License and Inspections, and we also have Bill Greenlee, Councilman Greenlee, present today. I'd like to thank everybody for coming out today. Before we start the hearing and before the first witness comes up, which will be Commissioner Solvibile from L&I, I'd like to set the tone of the hearing. It is important at the outset 3 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 to make clear what this hearing is about and what it is not about. The inquiry is not intended as a critique of the Department of Licenses and Inspections or any other department. The Department of Licenses and Inspections has a dedicated, competent and professional staff that does its best to deliver an important service under difficult circumstances. The enormous and quickly changing complexities of the permit process strain the folks at L&I. Technology has changed. Safety and environmental regulations have multiplied. Building codes have become more extensive and complex. The whole permit processing has evolved. What the hearing is about is improving the process, and utilizing the skills and competence of the L&I staff in the most efficient and effective manner. It is about giving L&I the tools to reach that goal for the benefit of all those that participate in and are affected by 4 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 the process. Here for the discussion today are Commissioner Bob Solvibile of L&I, Janice Woodcock of the City Planning Commission, Commissioner Bernard Brunwasser of the Water Department, as well as representatives from the BIA, the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce, Westrum Development Company and an attorney familiar with the complexities of the development process. This hearing will involve getting the input of all those persons and organizations. After we are done, a report of the findings with recommendations will be issued. In the end, the report will represent and reflect the joint efforts of the public and the private sectors. Our first witness today is Commissioner Solvibile from the Department of License and Inspections. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Good afternoon.
Good afternoon. 5 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Councilman Savage and members of the Committee, I am Robert D. , Commissioner of the Department of License and Inspections. Today it is my privilege to provide testimony on Resolution 070355 to discuss the many accomplishments that have taken place within the Department of License and Inspections over the past five years and ways in which to continually improve upon the service we provide to our stakeholders. Over the past five years, many positive changes have taken place within L&I. From changes brought about through automation to changes in the way the public transacts its business with departmental staff, L&I is constantly evolving in order to take advantage of new technology and management innovations to better service the needs of the public. Many of these changes were brought about as a result of the 6 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 discussions with and the incorporation of ideas suggested by the BIA, which is the Building Industry Association, in their "If We Fix It, They Will Come" report of October 2004. In particular, I believe that there has been improvements in the service we provide in the area of construction in order to handle the increased volume of building activity that has taken place in the City over this time period. Automating many of the duties that once were performed manually has allowed us to promote and redeploy many of our clerical staff persons into inspectional positions. By doing this, we have been able to maintain our staffing levels in the area of construction inspection, emergency inspections and plan review to handle the higher demand for service; Highlights of the changes that have taken place include the integration of L&I's inspectional, permitting and 7 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 licensing functions into an automated system known as L&I's Concerted Automation, LICA, in order to expedite the handling of customer inquiries for service, provide notification of code violations to persons found to have violated provisions of one or more of the various codes the Department enforces, and to expedite the approval of applications for permits, licenses and certifications that are processed by the Department. I am happy to report that during the Fiscal Year '07 we completed full implementation of our automation system and that that project came in under budget. Also, through negotiations with the vendor, we have been able to lower the maintenance fees for the program going forward into the future; Improvements in our customer service through the reconfiguration of our Concourse area and Municipal Services Building, which included the installation of a customer ticketing and cuing system 8 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 to ensure our customers were directed to the appropriate area for service based on their need, creation of a customer service staff person to assist our less experienced applicants with navigating the permit and licensing process, and providing an area for our customers to review zoning files, download applications and to make self-service copies as needed; A system for dropping off completed permit applications and plans by applicants for construction permits so as to eliminate wait times for persons wishing to submit their documents for approval. As part of this initiative, we provide training on an ongoing basis to the public on what is required in order to process their construction documents. A conservative estimate of the percentage of applicants that have availed themselves of this drop-off service since its beginning is 15 to 20 percent, which translates into 10 to 20 drops-off per 9 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 day.
That's 10 or 20 people that can get in and out of the Department by just dropping their application and leaving and having us get back to them; An EZ Permit standardized system to allow homeowners or their contractors to apply for certain permits related to minor home improvement projects either at the Department's Permit Service Center in the MSB or at one of our local districts. The type of projects that are covered under the EZ Permit include the installation of wood decks in rear yards, installation of in-ground and above-ground pools and spas, and interior alterations geared towards kitchen and bath remodels; The creation of electronic zoning maps. These maps, which will be available in the spring of 2008, will provide accurate zoning classification and overlay information aligned to parcels so that developers can view online the classification and all 10 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 relevant zoning information for the specific property. This will aid in their planning forecast by eliminating the need to come to the Concourse of MSB for information; Developer services operational team meetings. In conjunction with the Managing Director's Office, the Philadelphia Water Department and Streets Department, L&I has participated in interagency meetings to discuss large-scale development proposals. These meetings have served to eliminate potential hurdles in the development planning stages. Working with the Planning Commission and the Managing Director's Office, License and Inspections will be exploring technologies that will enhance our customer service capabilities in our development community. As we continue to move forward, we envision achieving our goal of interagency one-stop shopping for large-scale development. 11 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 You'll be able to walk into a room hopefully with the various departments involved in the approval process and come out with an answer, with a permit. Implementation of neighborhood transformation and blight elimination initiatives remains a focal point of the Administration. Licensing and Inspections and the Managing Director's Office, also the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative, NTI, leadership have formed a stakeholder group to build consensus through debate on best practices of L&I and NTI and create a blueprint for implementing topics being discussed in the transition process, including contract management, project management, contracting models, lot greening, fencing, planned demolitions and the use of technology. An early outcome is our work on Decisionmaps, a GIS tool to create density maps, to predict the location of 12 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 vacant structures. We are also working with Hill International to replicate project management databases and ease the transition from Neighborhood Transformation Initiative to L&I. In Fiscal Year '08, L&I's Neighborhood Services Division will integrate many of the functions and procedures that NTI presently employs. We will construct planned demolition packages of a smaller scale with a 30-property-per-package maximum and coordinate departmental staff to initiate a Clean Sweeps program in targeted neighborhoods. In addition, we will use our housing inspectors, building inspectors and Clean and Seal teams in tandem to inspect and seal properties as necessary. These operations will take place throughout the City, thus creating a safe corridors in some neighborhoods of the City's blighted neighborhoods. The aforementioned are just a few of the items within L&I that have 13 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 taken place to enhance the services that is provided to our stakeholders. Has L&I within the Department in the services it provides to the public made progress? Based on what I have highlighted, the answer is yes. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely. The LICA system we created is a living system.
The Department created a Change -- and I'm deviating from my written testimony -- a Change Control Committee where problems come up with the system, we discuss it and we put the IT technology in place and the managerial technology in place to make a proper change so the system works better. How can we continue to improve on the path that we have started? By continuing to work in cooperation with various groups and stakeholders to develop new and innovative ways to meet the needs while at the same time remaining focused on our mission to ensure public safety. One of the groups 14 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 in particular that we have had a very good working relationship with is the Building Industry Association, the BIA. In cooperation with the BIA and Planning Commission, we were able to recommend various legislative changes to the Zoning Code, which passed in Council and were enacted into law, to ease many of the regulatory burdens on the development community and expedited the approval of permitting applications for construction projects; By expanding our automation efforts to allow for more electronic transactions by the public to secure permits and licenses that are needed to begin projects or open and maintain businesses. We plan to continue our working relationship with the Mayor's Office of Information Systems, MOIS, the Department of Revenue and the Official Payments Corporation, OPC, to explore the possibility of accepting "e-checks," which will allow business owners to pay 15 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 for all licenses at one time through an electronic check transaction that is linked to their bank account. We believe this service will greatly benefit the business and development community, as well as the average person by allowing them to get what they need from us quickly and conveniently; By continuing our efforts to professionalize our staff with the training, knowledge and tools needed to provide our stakeholders with the highest degree of service that is expected of us and that they deserve. We recently had staff members -- and I'm deviating from testimony -- attend a conference of the international builders in the United States, code officials in the United States, and Target stores that opened on City Line Avenue -- use an example, two of our staff members from the construction, from the planning stage and then from the inspectional stage that 16 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 work with them and gave a class to all the code officials in the United States as to how proper relations with the code officials in the construction plans review should take place, and they praised our people, and Target has said because of their good experience, they're getting ready to build another store in Philadelphia. And I'm real proud of that, and that came to my knowledge after the testimony was written. The road that we have traveled to get to this point has not been easy. As with all the changes, we have experienced our share of growing pains to adapt or discard old processes in order to embrace new technology and management tools. With the public that we serve in mind, we are committed to explore new and better ways in which to improve on the services we provide. We welcome their input and suggestions. Thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony on Resolution 17 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 070355. I will be happy to answer any questions at this time.
Thank you, Commissioner, for your testimony. You've been doing a good job and you've done a great job servicing my office, and you still do. One thing that you've done within the License and Inspections Department is you have the Hansen database, which I think is a good system, but one question I have for you about the Hansen database is, why do we have to wait for a BRT number? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: When we started the implementation of our database, we had meetings with our staff and our internal management of the Department over a period that -- this has been a four-year period for us. Really we envisioned Hansen about eight years ago and it took us the time to develop it. And as an example, without using a real address, if you get a permit on 1805 North 5th Street and it turns out that 18 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 the BRT changes your address to 1705, in the future you never know that you had the proper zoning, that you had a permit. It's harder to prove. And we wanted to use the right legal address. Now, since then, in working with the BIA, two members of my staff, Mike Fink and Bob Murray at Eileen Evans' direction, came up with a temporary fix to the address. We will input the address, say, of the construction project, Unit B on Cecil B. Avenue, say, and issue the permit right away that day, because what happens, at night when the BRT does its run, it changes every address back to the proper legal BRT address and that information will be gone. But the way we're doing it, the permit remains and the information stays in our permit system as that address, and then we're having the developers come back to us with the proper address when BRT catches up and gives them what the address would be and we change it. 19 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 That's the fix that we put in about a week ago.
Okay. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Which basically the longwinded answer I just gave means that if you come in and you're waiting for BRT, we can give you an address, temporary address, that will be good and let us process your permit without you waiting.
So right now it's not an issue as far as holding up projects? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: It was solved about a week ago. It was an issue up until -- it was a big issue, and that's why we got together and solved it.
How can we reduce the number of people that need to physically come to the MSB in Center City? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Well, in some of the things we put in the testimony, just drop it off. From this 20 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 conference that our employees attended, we're working with MOIS and Water and Streets and everybody else that approves plans, and there's a new computer system with the technology -- the name escapes me -- that will let a plan come into us electronically and be shared by all, Water, Streets and L&I, and whoever makes a change to that plan, it's live, you'll see it right there and we'll all be able to work on it together and in unison, and it won't be up to the applicant to go to Water and say, Well, L&I said this. It will be right there on the plans, and the examiner that's approving it will see it. We see that taking place. We're working together under the direction of the Managing Director to have this in place, and it's probably a good year away.
Robert Murray. I'm the Permit Services Manager. We are also looking to increase more permits so we can offer through the 21 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 web. Right now, as stated in the testimony, we're dealing with decks, pools, spas and some minor interior alterations. These are typically permits that we issue that don't require a plan review, so that's ideal for the web. Basically, they are used as a way to generate an inspection on the property. And we're looking at some more permit types, permit activities, to expand that, too, so that we can issue them on the web or even through our district offices, which would keep people from having to come down into Center City. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: One of the innovations that Mike Maenner, who is the Manager of our district offices, we're having problems getting our plumbing and electrical permits online, and we're working on it. We should be there in about a month or two. In the interim, what they're doing is, they can apply online to our staff in the Concourse and we'll fax the permits. 22 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 They can put the applications in in our district office. They'll fax the permits to us, and we'll approve it and then fax it back to the district, and that saves them from coming into Center City. So that's every plumber, every electrical contractor in the City can avail themselves of that and it will save them coming into Center City, and it let's us serve the people that need our help in a more efficient manner.
How long does it take for an application to be processed? For example, how long does it take for a permit to put in an extension on a house?
Addition permits can vary based on the complexity, based on whether or not it can be issued as a matter of right in terms of zoning approval. If it can be issued as a matter of right, we're probably somewhere around 20 business days for zoning, and that can run concurrently with the 23 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 building. So I would say probably around three to four weeks as a matter of right. If it has to go in front of the Zoning Board of Administration -- excuse me; Zoning Board of Adjustment, then you're talking probably a few months. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: And we encourage people to, when they say you have to go in front of the Zoning Board of Adjustment, to submit to us their building permits. So while the six weeks lag you have, the eight weeks to get in front of the Zoning Board and a decision from them, we'll be able to have your plan reviewed, and then when the two papers marry up, which we can do electronically now, the permit can be issued. That would save several days, several weeks of you waiting for your permit.
What can be done to help the examiners do their jobs better? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We're 24 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 working -- we've been working with the Managing Director. We fixed the front of our house in the Concourse. Now we want to improve the area that they work in and their desk to -- we moved some people around. We changed some locations of some of our units, and we're looking to enlarge the area that the personal examiner sits in so they can have people back there and open their plans. Then the obvious is the training, and we issue -- we offer them training. We work with the examiners in getting the latest information to them, and it's worked out well to this point. Bob, do you want to add anything?
I would agree with that. We have a number of certified examiners on staff, and we keep them up to date on all the newest releases of the codes. There's a three-year cycle generally for building codes, mechanical codes, things of that nature, and we keep 25 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 everyone up to speed on what any new changes may be. I think the reconfiguration of the back office would go a long way even in terms of efficiency in how you review a plan, being able to open up a set of plans. Right now we are looking at the Convention Center expansion project and there's huge rolls, probably a thousand sheets in the job, and in a little cubicle area, you can imagine that it's not really all that great in terms of efficiency in how we do that job. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: And also the BIA is working with us and they've started a study on that, the work flow. Deputy Commissioner Evans is working with them to determine the way we should lay out the Concourse for the work flow so it flows more logically than it does now. I have to add this so you get an understanding: When I started, which was a hundred years ago, 36 years ago, 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 there was one code book. Now in Bob Murray's office and Mike Fink's office it's a whole shelf like that, probably longer than that, of code books that the plan examiner and the building inspectors in the districts need to be aware of these sections of the code; whereas, in my day, you could be dumb like me and still know what you were doing. Now you have to really be pretty bright and be on top of what's going on.
I have one last question and then I'll let my colleagues ask some questions. What prerequisite approvals keep people from being processed in a timely manner? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Well, you mean other than the Department?
Yeah, with the BRT -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Zoning, Water, Art Commission.
The Water 27 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Department, BRT? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Well, BRT, we solved that problem, but the Water Commission needs prior -- if you're doing a development package -- matter of fact, the new -- if a house has been vacant more than a year, you need Water Department signoff for a rehab on an existing property. There's approvals from the Art Commission. There's Streets Department for curb cuts. There's a lot of approvals that are required on a plan other than just L&I. And the delivery point other than for Water, for Streets and Art Commission, is L&I, and then the applicant has to get the approvals. That's one of the things that the Managing Director's Office and the departments are working on, the one-stop service, so you come in, get your answer and that's it, you don't have to go anywhere else. And the computer system that allows plan review online will go a long way towards solving all of that 28 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 problem.
So you think that all the departments should be represented in one building? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Well --
Different agencies within the City. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I don't know about one building, but the computer system allows us to be anywhere when we'd approve it. The group that I envision taking place meeting don't have to be in one building but in one room 16 with the developer so they can discuss with the developer the scope of the project, what you need, and then when the developer walks out, he can know exactly what he or she needs to do to get their project approved by all of the agencies, and then when they submit it, it's approved and the wait time going back and forth with questions is -- we found -- one of our things that we've enacted when 29 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 the person getting the permit is told by us what they need to do; i.e., you need to move your lines two inches to make it compliant, they get that, the design professional, but the owner doesn't know. So the owner is sitting there waiting for a permit. And what we do now is, we communicate with both the owner and the design professional, and this way, the owner who hired the design professional exerts more pressure on them to get the stuff to us in a more timely manner, the revisions.
Thank you. Councilman Clarke has joined us. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kelly.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm glad to see Mr. Chairman -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Councilman, can I interrupt a second? I forgot one more prerequisite. The 30 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Councilman reminded me. The Historical Commission is also in some cases a prerequisite approval. I'm sorry to interrupt you.
I'm glad the Chairman mentioned that this isn't a critique on your office, because I think that you fill very, very difficult shoes. I think on one hand we have Councilpeople calling you to demolish a building, to seal it up and to do away with it. Another Council office is probably calling you to say restore it, make it beautiful and the community needs it and wants it. So it's a very difficult position, and I respect you for the job that you do. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Thank you.
We in Council sometimes lose our patience, and I marvel at the patience that you keep sometimes from -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: You 31 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 haven't talked to my wife, kids or co-workers.
But one of the things, Commissioner -- I know it's a pet project of mine -- is to expand the services of the mini City Halls, and I know at one time L&I had personnel in both the Northeast offices and North Philadelphia offices, and I was wondering if perhaps in the future -- and I'd recommend that if you could have personnel scheduled for two days a week perhaps in the Northeast office and two days in North Philadelphia, with the other day remaining down at MSB, I think we could really, really expand the services to those communities that use them. There's over 145,000 people that use the Northeast office alone. So I think that this is something that I hope that you consider in the future. I think it's something that should be done. I guess perhaps with the new Administration coming in 32 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 here, maybe that's the time to do it, but I just want to point that out, that this is something that I really want to see happen. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: One of the things that we're looking into as a department, in our district offices -- we have five district offices. Really four for this purpose, because one is in Center City of our offices -- to increase our review of permits out in the district offices and let the applicants come there, which is in line of what you're saying. And, Mike, you want to add to that?
Yeah. We've actually spent some time -- I'm sorry. My name is Michael Fink. I'm Director of Construction Services at L&I. We've actually spent some time in reconfiguring our district office spaces to allow us to have a plans examiner stationed in some of those 33 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 offices as space allows. The long-range goal is to be able to offer some more immediate and easier assistance to homeowners and small contractors who are looking to renovate and put additions and decks on to their homes. That way we'd have a plans examiner in that office available to them virtually eight hours a day Monday through Friday. We're even looking at changing some of the hours of those.
Mr. Fink, would that also be for permits from contractors, small contractors?
Yes, sir. The way we have our employees set up now with their job specifications, as our inspectors become increasingly certified under national and state-required certifications, they are able to do plan reviews just like our engineers. So the less complex plans can be handled more remotely. And by having a central database and having more zoning 34 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 information available to everyone in external locations, we're able to service customers better that way. So in the not-too-distant future, we anticipate to increase the building permit application process and plan review in our remote district offices. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: And that would go a long way, Councilman, of serving citywide the construction needs and the permit needs of the applicants. But to answer your question about the North Philadelphia and the Northeast mini City Hall, if they were open and we were asked to staff them, we would.
Good. I'm glad to hear that. Because I know that, for instance, I know that I myself live probably 20 miles from the MSB building, and there are a lot, of course, of small contractors and whatnot that it's ungodly for them to come down here and waste almost half a day when they can just, 35 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 within or 30 minutes, get a permit or get some help from L&I. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: And a lot of our simple permits are online for the contractors now, and we're finding that rather successful for them. A lot of these small businessmen, construction, are out working the job all day and then at night they need to do their paperwork, and it allows some of these permits that we allow online, allow them to do that now, and it's a big help to them.
And I just 15 want to thank you on another project that 16 I was working on. Thank you very much 17 for your expedited service. 18 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Did 19 they work out okay this weekend? 20
It's been working very well. We look for an opening probably -- 36 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Actually, Michael is the one who processed that through for you.
Commissioner, I want to also echo my colleagues' thoughts about L&I. I think you guys have a whole lot of work to do, and you do it well, and your personal involvement in issues that are sensitive is always appreciated. My question is the designers. The young man referred to the volume of work. An example, the Convention Center, just so much detail. My question is about local knowledge. The people that prepare these plans, is there any training involving a local code? How could a person, a professional, make such glaring mistakes that you guys pick up? 37 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Why do so many problems have to be identified by L&I? Is it somebody in Texas that's designing the building without even being on the ground here? Why is there not -- there doesn't appear to be local knowledge? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: The code we adopted is the international construction code. It's the code that we use in Philadelphia. So it's available internationally. They can download any local code off of our website that would pertain to a particular issue. But I think it's a matter of there's good and bad in everything and there's sometimes innocent mistakes and sometimes people just doing it sloppily, and it's our job to correct mistakes. That's the reason we're there, the public safety and to make sure it fits within our code, and we do that. Mike, you want to add to my answer?
Sure. 38 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Councilman, we definitely see the benefit in having design professionals and our plans examiners on the same page. We're looking at creating an international code council chapter for Philadelphia or teaming with an existing one in Southeastern Pennsylvania that will provide training not only for our employees but allow design professionals to attend the same seminars. So we feel that by both of those sets of individuals attending the same training classes, they'll hear the same things and be on the same page when they submit their plans. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Also, Councilman, to add to that, when we did the just-drop-your-plans-off process that's in my testimony, Bob Murray, who is the Permit Manager and also the City's code official, met with the people who were going to use the system and trained them and went through the process with them. 39 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 So we're always outreaching to anybody that we can work with. And one of the great things about us working with the BIA and being on the Board is, a lot of these things come up in our discussions and then BIA will send it out as a bulletin, code bulletin, and we send out code bulletins.
Commissioner, to end, being so busy and let's say a major project like the Convention Center, let's hope that this doesn't happen, but what if something gets by one of your review staff? What is the ramification of something that's wrong getting approved? Does the contractor or the general contractor have some appeal process? How does it work? Do we have to live with a mistake if they come to you -- they build it, and all of the sudden somebody goes and inspects it and say, You can't have that wall there, but it's on the plan and you guys signed off on it. 40 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: A lot of -- there's always three sets of eyes on any project, Councilman. It's the engineer who designed the building and puts his seal on it. It has to be a registered structural engineer. There's the City's building -- City's plans examiner is looking at it and the City's building inspector. And our building inspectors in the field will find a lot, because they're in the field with the contractors. And the contractor will say, Well, this is on the plan, but it's not right. So the building inspector will say, Well, submit for a change. They'll work with the engineer and they submit the change. I doubt if everything in the world gets picked up that should be picked up. The safety issues, will this building withstand the test of time, as a whole, get picked up and we're on top of. But keep in mind, there's three sets of eyes, not one set of eyes. 41 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate you letting me ask some questions, although I'm not on the Committee. Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Afternoon, Councilman.
As you know, in my first long life in this place, I dealt with L&I a lot and with you directly, and I really appreciate all the Department -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Actually, I think 36 years we've been dealing with each other.
Almost. For the record, I'm a little younger, Commissioner, so I haven't been at it quite as long as you. 42 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Between you and Councilman Clarke, I don't know.
That's right. I think I have him by about 30 days' seniority. In the enforcement area, have you seen an improvement in the time -- and I know a lot of this isn't the Department's fault, if you will, because it's the court backlog and all, but I'm thinking about when people just ignore violations and you have to get to the point where you have to take them to court. How is that time? Has it gotten better, shorter, longer? Is there a way to improve it? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Always a way to improve everything, and we've been working -- we went from a completely paper system to a completely electronic system. So that allows us to do several things. The work gets processed in court electronically, other than for Equity 43 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Court, which is a special court. But Municipal Court where the fines are enacted, it's electronic, and then it electronically notifies us. We're better able to find managers, and we're starting to hold them accountable now that the system is in place and they're getting used to it, is the inspector doing the reinspection so it can go to court. And we've trained managers how to look in -- we call it the cue, the workers' cue. Well, why didn't you answer these violations or why didn't you move them along? But we're always looking to improve that process, and I think that going paperless -- and it's like a new baby that's -- let's say a ten-year-old. We're about ten years old now and we're looking to become adults and grow with the system, because we went from virtually pencil and paper to a computer system that's completely automated, and that's like culture shock to some people 44 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 and it really -- and we're adjusting and growing into it daily. As an example, when I receive a call from anyone, if we have the address, I can go right to it and know everything we've done; whereas, in the past, I'd have to ask five people to get the same answer, and it might have changed as it went up the line to me. This way I see it right in front of me. So we're getting to the point where we're improving. Is it perfect? No, to answer your question.
But have you seen a time improvement like for the second inspection and then sending it on for enforcement? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Yes. We're seeing improvement, but it still needs to get better. We're not satisfied. We aren't personally satisfied yet.
Sort in the same enforcement area, just for example, a person has a debt bill. The 45 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 contractor tells them, I got the permits or I don't need a permit or whatever, and then two years later, they get a notice from L&I because a neighbor complained or something. I know the owner gets a violation. Do you seek out or can you seek out the contractor himself, issue violations on that if the owner says, Yeah, it was Joe something? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Absolutely. And as a matter of fact, in the City of Philadelphia, in the State of Pennsylvania, you need to be licensed. There's a license. And if you're in violation of that license, we'll give you a hearing and threaten to pull your license so you don't have the right to get a permit any longer. And also, let's say the example you used, two years ago, we want a letter to come into the Department. We don't want like the casual neighborhood feud, the anger, I'm going to get you. We want somebody to stop, sit down and put it in writing to 46 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 us. Unless it's recent construction, we really want it in writing.
That's good, because I know that you probably run into that a lot. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Absolutely.
We do in our office. If I could, one last thing. On NTI, I know you say about in FY08 kind of integrating more the functions. So you'll be taking over more of what NTI is doing right now? I'm thinking demolition particularly. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We'll handle it from, I guess you would say, soup to nuts. We will, as we say in the testimony, about 30, ten in a block or a community. We'll put a package out, we'll monitor it, and we'll also at the same time manage like we do with our imminently dangerous buildings that we demolish on a curbside basis. So it will 47 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 be under our control, lock, stock and barrel, as of, I believe, this coming January.
And one last thing, if I could, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. It seems like the whole process you're talking about over in the Concourse level certainly has improved things. We still occasionally get, I guess you would call it, concerns raised by vendors that don't seem to always understand what they're supposed to get, and sometimes it might have to do with a language problem or something like that. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: The language problem shouldn't be there, absolutely, because we have language access where -- and it works. At some of our Board hearings we get an interpreter from wherever in the world and the person -- and everybody gets on the same page. So we have access available. We have signage in about 25 languages with 48 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 their language saying if you need it, ask for it, and our staff is trained to use it. And also, I think another complaint, like if you come to L&I today expecting a piece of paper, a copy of a permit, if our system is down, we can't produce that, and in the old world, we could, because we had papers that we photocopied. But now everything is on the system, and if the system is down for whatever reason, we can't access it. That is one of the drawbacks of the system. It's not down a lot, but it's down enough where that could be a concern of somebody coming during the day.
Do you find any increased problem with vendors or does it seem like that has slowed down with some of the other -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: There's some people that love it, some people that hate it, and you can almost go by age as to who loves it and who 49 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 hates it.
Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Thank you. Bill touched on the enforcement issue. Do you have enough help from the City Solicitor's Office when it comes to enforcement? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: For our equity cases, we have a lot of help. I deal with the Law Department almost on a daily basis, sometimes on an hourly basis during the day with injunctions, cease operations, people suing us. And they've been very supportive and they have been supportive. For the Municipal Court, which is the majority of our cases going to court, we don't go through the Law Department. A lawyer doesn't appear there with us. We handle that on our own. 50 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 But they're very supportive of us and I know available for my phone calls and my staff's phone calls when there's a problem. When we're being sued or we need legal advice, they're there for us.
Okay. One last question before Councilman Clarke, I know he wants to ask a question. You talked about the cuing testimony in your testimony. What about an appointment system? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Pardon me?
An appointment system where you get an appointment online or by phone, like we do with a doctor. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We're looking into software, because now all of our inspectors are online. That will allow contractors to make appointments with our inspectors online. What's available to contractors now, they can 51 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 fax the district manager. The district manager can set the appointment for the inspector. We ask for, I think, or 5 48-hour notice -- 48-hour notice and 6 we'll set up appointments. 7 But we're looking at, again, 8 more computer software. Now that we've 9 done the initial hard work of putting the 10 Department online, a lot of the 11 information that we -- a lot of the 12 things technology-wise we want to do are 13 doable now; whereas, in the past they 14 weren't. And we're looking at a system 15 that will allow us to have a contractor 16 call in using the same and get an 17 appointment, any kind, for engineers, 18 building inspectors, commissioners, 19 deputy commissioners, whatever. 20
Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We're 22 probably a year away from that. The LICA 23 system that we created, I'm proud to say, 24 it's a live system. We didn't create it and say, Okay, it's done, now we'll go 52 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 about the business of just using it. We look to change it every day, and we encourage our staff to give us suggestions as to what we can do to improve it so it works better for us and for the public that uses us.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Afternoon, Councilman.
I got a couple of questions. I want to talk about your department in terms of the various units and what units are geared around revenue generation and how many units are geared around enforcement and how many units are essentially administrative. Can you kind of break that down for me? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Sure. Administrative services under the 53 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 direction of Bridget Greenwald, who I believe --
Well, administrative generally. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: That is a unit, Councilman. Administrative services would be budget, fiscal, personnel.
And commissioners. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Well, I generate revenue sometimes. I'm teasing. Yes, and commissioners' staff. Then there's our district offices, our five district offices. They're enforcement and revenue generation. The building permits that people purchase are inspected. They issue -- if you have to go -- after the third time that we were there on reinspections, it's an automatic $75 fine and then it increases. So they generate revenue, and their work also justifies revenue. There's Bob Murray's unit, the 54 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Permit Services, that generates revenue, probably $20 million a year. That's a guesstimate on my part. There's our License Issuance Section that processes all the licenses, the housing licenses, all the licenses that we issue. They're revenue generation. There are Contractual Services. They do not generate revenue. That's the demolition arm of the Department. There is 990, the housing, the Business Compliance Division and the Commercial and Industrial Division. They do not generate revenue. The Weights and Measures Unit generates some revenue with fines. And we all generate revenue in the sense that we reinspect and send cases to court and the court issues fines, but it's a fine that goes into the court system when it's collected. I believe I've caught all the units.
In terms of percentages, what percentage of your 55 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 workforce would you say is geared toward revenue generation? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: About 35 percent roughly towards revenue generation.
And would you include enforcement in that component also? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: No. I asked her, but I would include the license issuance and the engineers downstairs. The enforcement levies fines through the court.
What percentage would you consider that? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: About five. So say 35 to 40 percent would be towards generation of revenue. But if you take the Concourse, 35 percent, the Concourse and License Issuance, their job exclusively is the generation of revenue by the issuing of permits, and everything they do, we charge for.
So would 56 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 you say from the perspective of the City and the client, which is the citizens of the City of Philadelphia, that the two most important components of your department is revenue generation? As the City, we need to generate revenue, and enforcement as a citizen, we need to have these violations enforced aggressively? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Yeah. The 35 percent answer I gave was for the generation of revenue. The enforcement arm would be about 30 percent of the Department.
Not five? Because you said five earlier. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: In other words, the Housing Division, the Business Compliance Division, Contractual Services and our building inspectors in the district, they all are on the enforcement arm also.
So you sound like you're talking about your department dividing it up into thirds? 57 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I'm going to let Ms. Greenwald, who is the ASD and hopefully has this on top of her head.
Good afternoon. I'm Bridget Collins-Greenwald. I'm the Administrative Services Director for the Department of L&I. I missed the last part of your question when I was walking up. That was revenue versus enforcement end?
In looking at this, if we're considering the enforcement end more of our 990 and our neighborhood services type folks and the building inspectors, it's looking about 45 percent, it looks like, in enforcement.
And the rest would be more of your administrative 58 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 staff and some our your Clean and Seal staff.
What's been the staff reduction over the last five years?
We have probably -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Five years, Councilman?
About ten years ago we were authorized at about 480 positions. We were about at 450 filled. Currently, we're about 375 filled.
And how did you reduce that staff? Across the board or in the administrative function? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Mostly our clerical staff and mostly without layoffs, because of the creation of our inspectional force now inputs the information directly into the system, which eliminated the need for as many 59 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 clerks as we had. So what we've done as a department is reduced the number of clerical force. We at one point started a Staffing Needs Committee within the Department to determine among the deputies and the ASD and the personnel officer if a position should be filled, and we let other units compete for that position. In other words, if I wanted a building inspector and Bridget wanted another clerical position, we would compete, justify, and then the Committee would vote, and the Commissioner would be the final say how that would get replaced. And we've kept our engineers and our building inspectors at the current level that we had ten years ago. I'm pretty proud of that. With all the reduction, we've kept that force about the same. And our Housing Division, recently we hired ten inspectors in our Housing Division to bring that level back up to more where it was ten years ago. So we're very aware using 60 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 technology that we try to keep a balance in our field personnel and in our people who process permits. As an example, Councilman, with license issuance, we're soon to have -- e-commerce I called it, I believe e-checking, where you can online pay for all your licenses by check and it processes automatically. That eliminates the need for clerks in our -- and that eliminates the need for you to come to Center City and for clerical people to process that work. So we've done a lot to lessen the need for clerical and put -- that cut, not let it affect our building and our public safety issues.
Is there any way within the revenue generation portion of your departments that if additional resources; i.e., staff, were placed in those departments, we would increase revenue generation?
Councilman Clarke, I believe that with e-commerce 61 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 that the Commissioner just mentioned, e-checks and the ability for people to renew their licenses online, obtain certifications online and eventually obtain different kinds of permits online, we will be generating revenue. I think our customers are clamoring for things like this. We have soft launches of several of these applications now, and our customers are just screaming for more and more. So once we get all the proper computerization in place and the chips all fall where they need to, I believe that our revenue will be fine just doing these online transactions.
I was asking will it be increased. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Pardon me, sir?
I'm talking about increasing revenue. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Yes. It would be -- 62 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355
It is our belief -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: It would be more cost effective in the sense that we could process it using less people.
So there will be less expenditures, there won't be an increase in revenue? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: No. 12 But we could conceivably with more inspectors, we could find more people working without a permit, which would increase our revenue.
That was my next question. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: That is a yes. That's always the case. What we do during the season -- and we'll probably be doing it shortly -- is on weekends in the fall and in the spring is when most people tend to do remodeling jobs, we'll send our inspectors out on overtime on a Saturday 63 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 to see if people are working without a permit, and that's in the past generated additional revenue for us.
Are you increasing the workforce to do that? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: No. 8 We're using overtime to do that.
Strictly overtime? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Yes. We could conceivably, in answer to your question, increase revenue finding more people working without permits if we had more inspectors out there looking for it.
So how do we get to a point where we increase the level of inspectors if we agree that more inspectors will probably increase revenue so more will come into the City's coffers? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: As an administrator, I manage the budget I receive and we manage within -- as I stated, we've kept during the Street 64 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Administration, we're at the same level of inspectors and engineers that we were at ten years ago and the same level that when this Administration started, and since I've been Commissioner, we've increased the number of inspectors. It's a matter of how we manage within the Department.
I'm not asking you that. We're here today to find out how we can make things be a little better. One of the biggest complaints that we have is the lack of enforcement, and understandably that there's been a staff reduction across the board. Every year you guys come before us, say, We've been asked to take a two percent or five percent hit or whatever. I'm asking you for recommendations, understanding that you have to live within the budget that you get, on how we would increase the enforcement arm; i.e., inspectors, to both satisfy the citizens but also increase the revenue. Because 65 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 you said that if your enforcement mechanism was enhanced, that it would subsequently increase revenue because there would be more violations generated. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: One of the -- when we get the -- as an example, I'm not evading your question, but I think it's another part of an answer. As we improve the capability of our hand-held computers for the inspectors to be not hooked to a wire and inputting their work, we will change some shifts -- not shifts. Instead of making them come to a district office, they can start from the field. An inspector starting five minutes from their house versus coming to Center City for a half hour is that much more work. We can monitor the work they do by -- because if they're online, we know it, the computer tells us they're online. And then the other part would be to increase the funding for the Department to give us the ability to hire 66 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 more inspectors and more plans examiners.
I just don't want to lose the thought here. You indicated that you worked inspectors overtime. If there was a campaign to work inspectors overtime on a weekend for a long period of time, don't you think eventually, especially the contractors that try to work around the system, would get the word you're going to get nailed, and that problem would subside in maybe six months, eight months? If you had the funding to do that and the funding would be generated by what Councilman Clarke is describing, don't you believe that that problem would diminish with a campaign of having inspectors work every Saturday or even some Sunday to go out and do what you just described? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We 67 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 think it does. What we found when we first started, the contractors caught on and started getting permits, which is what you want them to do. Win-win. And we do it in the season when we would find the most. Wintertime, forget that. That's sort of a dull time for people doing that type of work. And summertime is also. But we do it every spring and every fall, where we send inspectors out in each district on an overtime basis on weekends, and we pick the people from that district because they know it. And now with computers, they can look up on the computer at 1234 anywhere street and see if there's a permit or not. And also, keep in mind that this Council passed -- and is, I think, one of the best things that come out in a long time -- is the need to post the permit, post the zoning permit that you may get and the building permit. So any Joe citizen can see what you're able legally to do. And that's a great thing 68 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 that came out of this Council and helpful to us identifying people working without a permit.
Thank you, Councilman, for allowing me to express that thought.
Thank you, Councilman. Commissioner, because we are here to collect data on improving the Department, could you forward to us in writing realistically if there was an increase in inspectors on the enforcement side, realistically the revenue that could be generated as a result of that. And I understand you'd have to speculate, but given a for instance, if you had five additional inspectors and prorate it based on what the existing number of inspectors that you had, what revenue could be generated, because the assumption is that there's a lack of enforcement and violations issued and subsequently brought into collection 69 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 because we just don't have enough people. Could you forward through the Chair in writing your projections about the possibility of adding additional -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Absolutely, Councilman. We will. We'll have it to you within about a week.
That would be very helpful. One other question for now. Currently, if a contractor or developer wants to get an expedited permit, they pay a fee, and somehow the timeline associated with getting the actual permit to proceed is either cut in half or reduced by a number of months or weeks. What actually happens when this guy pays or this lady pays 500 or a thousand, whatever it is? What happens in the Department that now allows a person to get it in three months as opposed to six months? Do we use that money to hire an extra person? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I 70 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 don't think it was ever three months. You get an answer in an expedited permit -- I'll let Mr. Murray give the exact answer, but it's done on overtime, Councilman. To answer your question, the magic is overtime, and we let the examiners take the plans home with them. And, Bob, what is the time frame?
For zoning applications, based on the volume that we're dealing with and the number of examiners that we have, we're somewhere around ten working days. For building permit applications for accelerated reviews, it's three to five working days. And as the Commissioner suggested, what happens is the applicant pays the fee in order to offset the overtime cost for the examiner to take the plans home, to do the review at home, come back in and notify the applicant whether a permit can be issued or if there's some additional information that needs to be submitted in 71 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 order for the permit to be issued.
It is. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Well, no. No, in the sense that it could be -- that's four hours of overtime.
Right. If the job tends to go over four hours, which there aren't many that do, then there will be additional fees that need to be made. Those are usually the exception rather than the rule.
So who determines that if the person is doing the work at home? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Well, it's monitored. Bob is pretty on top of that, and we monitor -- we know about how long a job should take and we know -- and the engineers are all on board with this. Obviously it's a privilege that they're getting overtime, that they earn the 72 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 overtime, and they like the fact they can increase their income. So they stay on top of it for us and they don't -- as much as our audits turn out, we don't find many problems or any problems really with the inspectors taking the work and doing it from home.
Off the top of your head, what percentage of those expedited permits require additional overtime? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Very few. Maybe one percent, two percent.
Just about. The supervisor can usually tell by the size and the number of sheets in the job that need to be reviewed the extent of time it's going to take for the review. You can imagine when we had the new stadiums coming in, we had volumes and volumes. I'm not familiar if those came in as accelerated or not. But you know what jobs are going to take longer than, let's say, a single-family addition or a 73 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 one-story commercial property for retail. You can kind of gauge the jobs and see the number of sheets in the set, which will determine the length of time it's going to take to review.
What percentage of the permits that come in are asked for expediting? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Well, I was at a meeting yesterday where a law firm in Philadelphia said that any permit they send to L&I is expedited. So a lot. But do you know the percentage?
I don't have the percentage off the top of my head. I'm probably guessing maybe percent, 18 percent. 19 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: And we 20 can get that. We'll look in the weekly 21 report and get that information to the 22 Chair as to the percentage. 23
I'll tell 24 you why I'm asking that line of 25 questioning. And it will be determined 74 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 by the percentages. If there's a process that expedites permits within the City, and I think one of the problems -- and the development community, I'm sure, will speak to this -- is that one of the problems is getting permits moved through the process quickly enough. Would it make more sense to just simply raise the fee across the board minimally and have everybody's permit expedited as opposed to just those that can afford to pay for an expedited permit and then everybody else kind of just waits because they don't have the wherewithal to pay the extra -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I guess if everybody was expedited, then you would lose -- then you'd bring everything into the average and you're probably back to a 20-day, about a 15-day average, and for some people, that's just not -- they need their answer right away.
But wouldn't it be fair if 80 percent of the 75 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 people now get their permits expedited by paying a small fee, a smaller increase, as opposed to the guy that comes in, in all due respect to the lawyers, the slick lawyer throws the check, I'm paying an expedited fee, and we'll get yours in three months and Josephine or Joe blow citizen, I can't afford to do that, I got to wait for eight months. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I think to answer your question --
Wouldn't it be better to just like have everybody's expedited? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Under state law we have --
For residential properties under the state is 15 working days, at least for building permits, and 30 days for commercial properties. So when we do residential additions or any minor alterations or even major alterations for one or two-family dwellings, their response time is 76 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 generally somewhere around working days. So we are sensitive to the fact that Joe homeowner typically doesn't have that extra money to be putting out there. So we are on line with what the state mandates us within working days, which 8 is about three weeks of regular time. 9 And we found that to be a pretty fair 10 time in terms of turnaround, getting it 11 processed and giving them an answer. 12
So are you 13 suggesting that it's not really a problem 14 in terms of timeline in getting permits 15 out to applicants? You're suggesting that it's okay, it's not a problem? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: No. 18 I'm suggesting that if people in the world today need to wait ten minutes, it's too long, I understand that, and I understand the critical path that a lot of these projects take, but I think that where the problem comes in, not every plan that's presented is approved at first review. They're not approved. And 77 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 we send a letter to the applicant, and then the applicant, engineer, architect needs to make changes, and that's not getting -- then it has to come back to us and we have to review it again to determine if they made the change properly. And that process is a time-consuming process. It's one of the reasons earlier I said that we send a notice to the owner and to the applicant. We used to just send it to the applicant, but now we also notify the owner, because that owner then has a vested interest in getting the person they hired to do it quicker for them. Also, I think that a big part of solving this is when we get the permit application process online, instead of getting rolls of paper, we get it online and we can start working with Water, Streets and all the other agencies and approving it online versus using paper. So I think therein lies the answer. Is it quick enough? No. If we 78 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 could make it quicker, we would. And, again, the only way to make that quicker would be to hire additional staff to review, but then that creates its other problems and you still have to train. At this point, to approve plans you need to be certified by the State of Pennsylvania. You need six certifications from the State of Pennsylvania. So when you hire somebody initially, you can't let them just sit down and start reviewing plans. They have to get through the process of getting their certifications. So no matter how you look at it, it's time consuming. But we look at everything we do, Bob, myself, Mike and Ms. Evans, every day we look at ways to improve the process we have and make it quicker, and we listen to suggestions from people, our users, and some great ideas will come from our users that we've implemented.
Okay. I'm 79 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 not sure I -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I have your answer if I think --
I heard your answer. I'm not sure I necessarily agree with it. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Not that answer. I thought you were going to talk about a project.
Well, I need to get that supermarket on line. That's a side discussion. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: You can shop online now.
We actually have some people here in -- COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Councilman, you can shop online now. They'll deliver it to your house. I love that.
No. I want to see my food before. Now is not the time, because we have a lot of witnesses, but you need to know that I want to look 80 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 into that process, this whole expediting process, where percent of the people 4 get their process moved a little quicker 5 simply because they had the wherewithal 6 to pay a little more money. I'd like to 7 see that spread across the board, maybe 8 make them take a little longer -- 9 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Make 10 everything quicker. 11
Get 80 12 percent of the people that don't get that 13 expedited process, have their process 14 move a little quicker. So I'm going to 15 get into that with you a little later, 16 but not today, because we have a lot of 17 people here. 18 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 19
Thank you. 20 Before I recognize Councilman Rizzo, I know you have to work with the budget and it's a difficult thing to do, but we talked about needing more staff for inspectors, but you vaguely said that we need more staff on the engineer side 81 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 and the planning examiner side, and I think even though we have to wait for the certifications and whatnot, I think that that would be a good problem solver for what Councilman Clarke is talking about and alleviating that whole expediting process, because the more planning examiners you have and the more engineers, I think that that would, in essence, expedite the whole process for the average developer or business owner. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I guess my answer was geared towards it's not an instant fix, because it would take time for the certification process to take place.
Commissioner, going back to this expedited process, are there different forms of a permit being expedited? You indicated that some of the reviewers take the plans home with them. 82 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Expedited is taking it home. It's done at home on overtime. The person applying regularly that's not an expedited does not suffer. It's done on overtime. There's some exceptions. Some of the checks you need to do at your work station.
Is there a number, a payroll code, can you identify in your organization how many hours are paid an employee working from home? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Yes.
Could it be where an expedited permit would take 15 minutes, minutes and the employee get 18 paid four hours? 19 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I'm 20 going to let -- I'm not going to answer. I want to hear the answer from Bob Murray. I know what I would tell you, but I want to hear what he's going to say.
Because that 83 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 would be something I think we can do on straight time rather than pay, I guess, a minimum of four hours.
Could an expedited process, an employee take the work home with them, it take minutes 10 and they be paid for four hours? 11
Yeah. Some of the 12 jobs do not take the full four hours, and 13 as part of our procedure that we have 14 written in, what happens is, if an 15 examiner and the supervisor who does the assignment sees that the job is of a smaller nature that may not take the four hours, they supplement the rest of the four hours with backlog jobs and take those home with them and do the review on that time as well. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Or other expedited jobs that they need to review.
So they 84 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 could batch them up? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Yeah. We don't let somebody get paid for four hours to do minutes' work. No, we 6 don't allow that. 7
But you do 8 have an accounting of how much money 9 employees are paid for working from home? 10 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: 11 Absolutely. We have different codes for 12 our overtime. 13
But if a supervisor saw an expedited job, that job only would take 15, minutes, that 18 would automatically be taken home to do 19 rather than knock it out right there 20 during the business day and bill at the expedited rate? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We tend not to want to take not accelerated and do them during -- we want our accelerated permits done at home and the 85 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 regular workload to be done at work during the workday, because that's -- we don't want the regular permits to take longer than the days, work days, that 6 it should take. And I would guess, I 7 would guess, that the person coming into 8 us, the person taking the application 9 would say, Look, this is only a 15-minute 10 job, you really don't need it expedited, 11 unless you want your answer, unless it's 12 critical to have an answer right away. 13
I see. 14 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: And 15 very few of them would only take 15 minutes, just to keep in mind the description I gave of the big shelf of books that you need to keep.
And I'm sure you're going to answer the question yes, but programs like this sometimes are what you read in the newspaper years later that could be a problem. You really believe that this is really a tight, solid program, I'm sure? 86 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: We've been using it roughly years, that it 4 was started by one of my predecessors, 5 Bennett Levin, and we have not found 6 problems. We monitor it. It's one of 7 Bob's jobs and it's one of the 8 supervisor's that works for Bob's jobs to 9 monitor and make sure that it's not being 10 abused. And if it is, we'll come down 11 real, real hard on that person. We even 12 look at people's work history. If 13 they're not coming to work or taking a 14 lot of days sick, we'll take away the 15 privilege of having overtime to take home. Because you're not working for us on a normal basis, so why should we reward you.
Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Solvibile and Mr. Murray, for coming out. I really appreciate your time. 87 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Thank you. Thank you all.
Thank you. The next testimony will be the Executive Director of the Philadelphia City Planning Commission. That will be Janice Woodcock's testimony, and I understand that the Deputy Executive Director of the Philadelphia City Planning Commission will be reading that testimony. Good afternoon.
My name is Gary Jastrzab. I'm the Deputy Director of the Philadelphia City Planning Commission. I'm here today on behalf of Janice Woodcock, who is at a regularly scheduled meeting of the City Planning Commission. I'm here to testify on Resolution 070355, which requests comments on the services provided by the 88 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Department of Licenses and Inspections to the citizens of Philadelphia. The work of the City Planning Commission is closely associated with the work of L&I in a number of ways. In this testimony, I will provide a summary of the projects in which the City Planning Commission is involved that supports the mission of L&I. I'll also describe some initiatives for the short and mid term that will continue to improve the services that the City provides to the public. What are we doing right? The City's investments recently made in information systems for permit tracking and zoning mapping are enabling us to better serve the citizens of Philadelphia. These, plus additional initiatives related to interdepartmental information exchange, sum up the comments I would like to make today. First, on the progress for permit tracking, the Department of 89 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Licenses and Inspections provides the first stop for many citizens who seek permits in development approvals. L&I has developed a computerized database, which we know as the Hansen system. This database requires that properties be entered using BRT addresses, which over time will enable the City to have accurate records of property improvements. Earlier this fall, City Planning Commission staff members attended an informational session to better understand the features of the Hansen system, and we will soon be able to monitor permit activity and track development trends through this program. For zoning remapping, the City Planning Commission, in conjunction with other City departments, has been working on the creation of digital zoning maps. Phase is complete and Phase is due for completion in the spring of 2008. Based on recommendations from the Building Industry Association of 90 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Philadelphia's 2004 report "When We Fix It, They Will Come" and assisted by funding from the BIA, an interdepartmental team has made digital versions of zoning maps available. Previously, applicants were required to confirm which zoning classification applied to their project using paper copies of these maps. The new digital maps will include overlays and will make this information available online for easy access by the public. Interdepartmental coordination: In addition to these technology developments, this past summer, through the leadership of the Managing Director's Office, we have instituted joint meetings among agencies involved with the approval of major projects. We have found it very useful for multiple decision-making agencies to develop a single position on projects with unique technical or planning issues. The need for these meetings has emerged because many of the 91 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 City's remaining sites are on steep slopes or on constrained, infill type sites where the subdivision of land or required space for streets according to sound planning and engineering practice requires the consultation of several agencies. One-stop shopping: Relating to the interdepartmental coordination, this model is a precursor to what we believe should be a longer-term goal of consolidating the permit review process so that developers can submit applications for permits at a single point and receive feedback regarding the various aspects of the project in a consistent and coordinated manner. At the present time, applicants must visit multiple departments, and sometimes the recommendations of one department can conflict with or compromise the objectives of another. The joint interdepartmental meetings we have instituted have been enthusiastically 92 10/16/07 - L&I - RES.
070355 received by all participants and promote creative thinking for projects with special engineering circulation or infrastructure design issues. This has led to a greater understanding of the relative concerns of each department, be it the Streets Department, L&I Zoning Unit, the Law Department, the Water Department or the City Planning Commission staff. The City Planning Commission will also continue to work closely with L&I and other City departments to look for ways to improve our regulatory process and development review process. At the present time, we are undertaking this work in support of the Zoning Code Commission. We have developed an illustrated guide to our existing Zoning Code for the Zoning Code Commission commissioners, the members of the Commission, and the public to understand. I have with me today some copies of one of the booklets that was prepared for the 93 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Zoning Code commissioners that I will be happy to leave here.
We've also begun an analysis of the variances requested from the Zoning Code to better understand how the Code might be reformed or modified in the future. This analysis is being done jointly with L&I and will be presented as part of the Zoning Code Commission's meetings later this fall. Finally, the public cares about the quality of the built environment. One of the constants we are seeing as we review the issues with the Zoning Code and regulatory process is that the public does care very deeply about the quality of life in their neighborhoods, the quality of the environment and the quality of building and site design. The challenges we face to streamline permit review, deal with qualitative issues and to preserve the quality of life for citizens seems daunting, but it is also a 94 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 rare opportunity to embrace as the work of the Zoning Code Commission progresses. Thank you for this opportunity to testify. I'll be happy to answer any questions that you may have.
Thank you. Thank you for coming out to testify today. Which departments should be included in the one-stop shopping?
Certainly speaking for the City Planning Commission, I would recommend the City Planning Commission, L&I, Streets Department, Water Department, Law Department. There may be other departments that should be included in that process. I think we need to take a very close look at the flow of work related to permit issuance and approvals and include all those departments that have decision-making power.
Okay. When do you anticipate being able to use 95 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Hansen to replace trips to L&I?
We've had staff briefings on the system. We are sending staff over to meet with L&I staffers independently so they can begin to understand the system in more detail. So we would anticipate that in the very short term that we'd be able to use that system. We are primarily interested in a lot of the reporting functions. One of the things that the City Planning Commission staff does is attempts to track development trends in the City, and we see this Hansen system as very useful in looking at where permits are issued and tracking those trends over time.
Okay. You talk about the joint meetings. Who participates in these joint meetings and 96 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 do you expect these meetings to be a permanent part of the process?
Currently, the meetings are held biweekly in a shifting location. Many of the meetings have been held in the Planning Commission meeting room. The Water Department, L&I, Streets Department, the Managing Director's Office is represented. There's a representative from the Law Department. There may be some other departments that I'm just forgetting at the moment, but it's a very comprehensive group, and we have an opportunity to review plans that are presenting particular problems for agencies and kind of all be on the same page with regard to a City position with regard to those developments.
Thank you. Well, I thank you for coming out today and thank you for your testimony.
Is 97 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Commissioner Brunwasser present, the Water Commissioner? Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: Pardon?
I said please identify yourself for the record. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: I will, yeah. Good afternoon. My name is Debra McCarty. I'm the Deputy Commissioner of Operations for the Water Department. I'm here today to testify on the Water Department's role in the review of the proposed developments and the permitting process in the City of Philadelphia. Mr. Brunwasser apologizes for having to leave for a prior appointment. So you got me. The Philadelphia Water Department, in partnership with the Philadelphia City Planning Commission and the Department of License and Inspections, provides guidance and 98 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 oversight to developers regarding the requirements and permits necessary for developers to comply with city, state and federal laws designed to protect public health and safety and the region's environmental resources. The Water Department is responsible for the following requirements in the development review process: Ensuring the availability of water and sewer services for new development and redevelopment; review and approval of sewerage modules, Act 537 plans, that ensure the existing sewer system has the capacity to safely handle sewage flows from new development and redevelopment; review and approval of privately built water and sewer infrastructure for new development and redevelopment that will become a part of the City's water and sewer infrastructure, as these new piping systems must be built to City standards; review and approval of conceptual and 99 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 final plans for stormwater management and erosion and sediment controls for new development as well as redevelopment that disturbs 15,000 square feet or more of earth; ensuring that the required state permits for stormwater management are in place. For zoning approval purposes, the following requirements need to be in place: Availability of water and sewer services confirmed or planned; approval of the conceptual plan for stormwater management. For building permit purposes, the following requirements need to be in place: Review and approval of sewerage modules, Act 537 plans, that ensure that the existing sewer system has the capacity to safely handle sewage flows from new development and redevelopment; review and approval of privately built water and sewer infrastructure for new development and redevelopment that will become part of the City's water and sewer 100 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 infrastructure, as these new piping systems must be built to our standards; review and approval of final plans for stormwater management and erosion and sediment controls for new development and redevelopment that disturbs 15,000 square feet or more of earth; and ensuring that the required state permits for stormwater management are in place. The new stormwater regulations, enacted in January 2006, are designed to address many issues that affect the quality of life of our citizens, in addition to lending clear guidance to developers and redevelopers that results in construction that is friendly to the environment and that eliminates the potential for stormwater runoff to adversely impact the City's neighborhoods and natural areas. These regulations simultaneously address issues and environmental goals that have been identified by our citizens and by the state and federal agencies that oversee 101 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 our infrastructure-based permits. The new regulations significantly minimize flooding in neighborhoods caused by stormwater runoff; improve the quality of life of citizens through greening; improve and protect our City's rivers and streams from stormwater runoff pollution; assist the Water Department with meeting its stormwater and combined sewer overflow permits; meet the Pennsylvania Storm Water Management Act, Act 167, requirements; protect our drinking water sources, the Schuylkill and the Delaware Rivers; improve the development process in Philadelphia.
The fundamental differences between the previous stormwater ordinance, City Code 14-603, and the new regulations are that in addition to new "Greenfield" development being required to properly control stormwater, redevelopment is also required to implement a certain level of stormwater management. The basic premise behind the 102 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 existing ordinance was to ensure that current impervious land surfaces that contribute to stormwater runoff did not get worse. Maintaining the status quo was no longer adequate to protect public health and infrastructure investments and did not meet upcoming and existing regulatory Clean Water Act requirements. The new regulations address these deficiencies, boosting flood protection for residents and the environmental protection of our water resources. Similar regulations exist or have existed in the suburban counties surrounding the City for quite some time. One of the challenges the City needed to overcome was the perception by developers that stormwater management was not a priority of the City. We are confident that that perception is changing. The City's new stormwater regulations occurred at a time when the City began experiencing an increase in new development as well as redevelopment 103 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 that we had not experienced for decades. This trend, combined with the revised and more stringent review process, resulted in a longer period for building permit approval. PWD, in partnership with License and Inspection and City Planning, has spent the last two years fine tuning this review process via a number of mechanisms, including hosting a number of focus groups, weekly workshops and update meetings for the Building Industry Association of Philadelphia in order to obtain developer feedback to the process, hiring of additional staff for the Water Department to review plans, hiring an outside engineering firm to augment the work of our own engineers, and regular meetings among City agencies to identify where the review process can be streamlined. In addition, the Water Department has very recently implemented a pilot program for third-party certification -- a pilot for third-party 104 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 certification program for subsidized developments that will help to ensure that these developers do not lose access to state and federal funding. This pilot program should have the added benefit of decreasing the current backlog. A complete plan review, from start to finish, can require 40 hours of staff time, depending upon the quality of the submission and the need to ensure that neighborhoods, particularly those subject to flooding under severe storm conditions, are protected. The stormwater management component of a plan often includes systems both above and in the ground that require the same level of engineering review and analysis as comparable mechanical or structural components of a new building. Optimal stormwater management of properties is as essential as a good structural design. The Water Department is committed to ensuring that this process continues to improve as we move into the 105 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 future. The Commissioner's staff, as well as I, are available to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you.
Thank you. I discussed with Commissioner Solvibile about more staff and expediting the whole process for everybody across the board for building permits, et cetera. It seems to me that this new stormwater management that's been enacted, I think it was, January 2006 -- DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: Yes, sir.
-- has added to slowing down the process. Has there been any more additional staff on the Water Department's side as far as like engineers? Have you hired more engineers that are schooled on stormwater management? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: Yes. We've added staff. We've also 106 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 augmented our staff with consultants, and we're in the process of even adding more, augmenting our forces even further with a consultant.
And you talked about the workshops. Could you elaborate more on that? Is that just for the BIA? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: Well, I believe it's anybody that wants to attend. We've reached out to the consultants. We've reached out to -- it's more, I believe, the consultants for the workshops, the consultants preparing the plans that work for the developers. It's basically going through with them what they need to do to get a good submittal to us so we can quickly review it. I mean, one of the frustrations, I think, for our folks, as well as it ends up being a developer's frustration, is that we get a submittal, it's not approvable and it goes back, and then there's this back and forth until we get 107 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 an approvable submittal. So we're doing a lot of work to educate the consultants so they can get a good submittal the first time hopefully and the process can move along faster.
I commend you on that, too. I think it's great that you're doing the workshops to educate the developers and consultants. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I may go in a slightly different direction and not as big a scope as what we were talking about, but I think something that is a problem, at least something that comes in our office occasionally. Violations that are inside a property but are water related. Example, I'll give you a real example of something we just had: A woman lives next door to a not-well-maintained property, maybe 108 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 squatter occupied. We're not sure. She's getting water in her basement. The Water Department first went out and said it's not Water Department because it's internal, if you will, that they referred it to L&I. I guess my first question on that is, what is the difference, I mean, where Water Department violation comes in or L&I violation comes in? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: Well, if it's inside the property --
So anything inside? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: Essentially, yes. We'll write a violation from the property for the water service or the drain or lateral pipe, if you will, to our infrastructure even though those are both the property owner's responsibility. That's why we'll write them a violation as opposed to going in and just fixing it. But inside the property is L&I's.
How about 109 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 backyard? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: It's basically L&I.
Okay. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: I mean, we'll provide some assistance sometimes in diagnosing, because it's not always clear. I mean, we might go into the basement because it could be a leak from a next-door property and so we'd have to serve the notice to that property. So we might do some diagnostic work before it gets turned over to L&I where we rule out water or sewer.
Now, if it is an L&I violation, is the Water Department basically finished on the case as far as that goes? I guess what I'm getting at, the person refuses to fix the problem. The old lady next door keeps getting water continuing in her basement. Does L&I just have to go through the normal, I guess you would call it, enforcement process or is there a time 110 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 where the Water Department can shut off that problem property if it's an L&I violation? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: Well, it depends upon what is causing the water in the basement. If it's due to downspouts or improper drainage, that's not really anything shutting off the water is going to help with. If it is --
A broken pipe in the house. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: If it is related to the water service, L&I or someone can request that we shut the water off, and we'll do that. We've done that. We do that all the time.
So L&I can request that? They don't have to go to court? They don't have to do an enforcement process? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: Yes. We've even handled it through Councilpeople. If someone says, Look, this is a problem, we'll look into it, 111 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 we'll contact L&I, we'll see that clearly this next-door neighbor has been suffering and we'll shut them off.
Not that I'm advocating people's water turned off, but sometimes that's the only alternative when people refuse to take care of a problem and there's an innocent victim, if you will. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: Right. We do what we can to try to help the customers.
So you kind of work together? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: Yes, sir.
Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. I appreciate you taking the time to come here. Thank you. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY: Sure. Thank you. 112 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355
Our next witness is Bill Reddish, the President of BIA. Good afternoon.
Thank you for having me. Other members of Council, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Bill Reddish. I am President of the Building Industry Association of Philadelphia. Founded in 1937, the BIA currently has 160 member businesses and is the leading association promoting residential housing development and construction in the City of Philadelphia. I would like to thank Councilman Savage, Chairman Savage, excuse me, for convening this hearing today on the critical issue of how to improve our City's Department of License and Inspections. In October 2004, the BIA 113 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 released a report entitled "If We Fix It, They Will Come" that identified specific needed changes at the Department of License and Inspections. This report was the result of a request from the Managing Director's Office to identify key problems in the development process. Since that time, the BIA has teamed up with the When We Fix It Coalition made up of key Philadelphia 12 organizations that seek to improve the 13 City's development review process. 14 Together we have been working with L&I to 15 improve its efficiency and customer service. There have been several successes to be proud of since the release of the report. The BIA itself provided the funding for the new electronic zoning maps for L&I so they could eliminate substantial staff time spent checking over 100 hard-copy zoning maps and transformed this from a back-room process to a transparent one. 114 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 One of our architect members evaluated the L&I Concourse area and made several low-cost recommendations to improve the space, and the City implemented several of these recommendations. As a result, there is a separate file request window and other improvements to customer service. In addition, the BIA wrote up each step of the development review process into a detailed manual, which the City released in 2007. L&I Commissioner Bob Solvibile has worked diligently to improve this process, and a few months ago L&I initiated a cuing system which has helped keep the waiting area more organized. Even with these improvements, however, there are substantial changes needed at L&I to allow it to better service customers, whether they are homeowners or large-scale developers. Permit review continues to take days or weeks. This is, in part, due to 115 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 understaffing. In 1970, L&I had over 800 employees and today has just over 300. However, L&I can improve the efficiency of its current staff by providing regular service training to its employees, by making all forms and applications available online, allowing electronic submission of the permit applications and, whenever possible, allowing its customers to meet with examiners by appointment rather than devoting one day to waiting in line for service. Due to the outdated Zoning Code, virtually all large-scale development projects require a variance and must, therefore, appear before the Zoning Board of Adjustments, causing weeks of delay and cost. It is my fervent hope that a new Zoning Code will resolve this situation. In addition, while other cities commit to inspecting a construction site within 24 hours of an inspection request, L&I inspectors may take days to inspect a 116 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 site. Each inspector is assigned a geographical area and must cover all inspection requests himself, even when their area of development is seeing much higher construction rates than their colleagues. L&I could dramatically increase response time if an essential scheduler assign inspectors to ensure maximum efficiency in completing inspections. A difficulty encountered since L&I adopted its new Hansen database is also worth mentioning. Since L&I installed Hansen, the system can only accept applications for permits when a customer can provide an official BRT number and address. Formerly, L&I could accept an intersection or common address.
BRT can take months to place the BRT number and address in their system. This means that L&I's ability to accept an application for a permit can be delayed by months. The Building Industry 117 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Association looks forward to continuing to work with L&I to improve its operations and to help them continue to be a profit center for the City. Thank you. I'm ready to answer any questions that you may have.
Thank you. You talk about the When We Fix It Coalition and you say there's key 11 Philadelphia organizations. Can you 12 identify those organizations? 13
I do not know all 14 of them offhand, but most of the 15 organizations, obviously the BIA, the Reinvestment Fund, various City agencies, housing agencies are represented as well. Basically, what we do is, we took that report and we broke it up into various segments to figure out from the various expertise that are around the table how can we make this report effective and efficient, how can we actually make it happen, and we're trying to do that now.
I touched 118 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 on this with Commissioner Solvibile and you talked about the cuing system, too. He said they're working on doing the appointment system, but do you believe that the appointment system would expedite the whole process for, once again, the average developer and business owner?
Yes. We've actually met with L&I at various meetings to discuss ways to improve the customer service area in the Municipal Services Building. The appointment system would be an improvement. Currently, as you know, people could spend as much as a half a day, if not an entire day, waiting to get various questions answered with regards to their plans and/or permits. So there needs to be some sort of improvement in that particular area. There's also been talk of having somebody operate almost as a host, sort of say, where a person would come down to the MSB building lot area or the 119 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 area where they want to get service and they would be asked, What is your concern, what is your issue, and then that individual would then steer them in the right direction. Currently, there is no one there to provide that service. You have to walk up to the counter and then engage a conversation to get your matter addressed.
Mr. Chairman, thank you. I actually was going to ask a similar question of what you did, but if I could just make a comment, Mr. Reddish. I kind of basically just want to commend BIA on particularly the "If We Fix It, They Will Come" report.
It seems to have been extremely useful, much more than can I say a lot of reports that get 120 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 out over the years. It seems they've come up with good ideas, and it's great that there's still this continuing dialogue going on. It looks like a lot of these things are -- there have been a lot of improvements based on what the Department has done and some of your suggestions. In particular, I was going to ask about the appointment process, but I know the Commissioner has talked about that, too. I'm sure you will, but I urge you to continue in that dialogue.
Thank you for coming out today, and I also want to commend you on "If We Fix It, They Will Come." I think that report is very good and I have to commend you for that, and thanks for coming here today.
The next witness will be Stephen Pollack. He's Co-Chair of the Zoning and Land Use 121 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Committee of the Real Property Section of the Philadelphia Bar Association. Good afternoon.
Good afternoon, Chairman Savage. Thank you for having me. Also, good afternoon Councilman Clarke and Councilman Greenlee and distinguished members of the City who are here today. My name is Stephen Pollack and I have been practicing zoning and land use law in the City of Philadelphia, I hate to admit it now, for about 31 years. And over the years, I have served as the Chair of the Real Property Section 16 of the Bar Association and at one time was co-publisher of the Philadelphia Zoning Code's Blue Book version for ten years when the City was unable to publish the Zoning Code itself as we now have it online. I am currently, as you stated, the Co-Chair of the Zoning and Land Use Committee of the Bar Association's Real Property section, as well as being appointed a member of the Pennsylvania 122 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 State Planning Board. So over the years, I have represented clients who have been seeking permits from the Department and I've also represented individuals and neighborhood associations that have felt the Department issued permits in error. So over this 31 period, I have witnessed many changes in the way the public interfaces with the Department, not only on the Concourse level but on all levels of the Department. As the world has become more complicated, the City application process has become confusing and time consuming, as your resolution states, Mr. Savage. I believe that the mission of the Department of Licenses and Inspections may need to be revisited. In fact, maybe the entire way the City of Philadelphia deals with development and the set-up of its various departments and agencies needs to be revisited. Other cities appear to have 123 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 taken a position of separating out the duties and responsibilities of enforcement and maintenance from the duties of development. When you look at the Home Rule Charter and the mission of L&I, the mission of L&I is huge. It covers every aspect. It covers issuing permits, inspections, revocations, enforcement. It was at a time when the City was a smaller city, also the demands on people were not as great. As Commissioner Solvibile pointed out, at one time if you had one code book, you could probably understand everything you needed to know. But life and times have gotten complicated. So I think that L&I does a great job, a Yeahman's work with what they have, the limitations on their budget, and as Councilman Clarke was aiming at, that maybe there's a way with dealing with trying to get some more revenue if you had more people that could review plans or if you had more 124 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 enforcement and the limited personnel resources that they've had, because even though I know we say computers increase productivity, there's been a shrinkage in the number of people that are employed by L&I, and despite efforts to maintain certain levels, I'm sure the Commissioner and all the Deputy Commissioners would love to have some more people so they could handle the volume that happens, because Philadelphia is hot. So I think that the demands on the Department to process applications, do plan reviews, to do inspections but also have to deal with enforcement and also NTI and different other things, where they actually -- they're also charged with maybe tearing down signs on the Boulevard because maybe some overzealous candidates have put up signs, those are things that maybe the Streets Department or another department may be able to look at as opposed to charging the Department with that so they could 125 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 better use their resources. Now, there's been a great mention of -- and Mr.
Reddish mentioned it -- that the BIA came up with their seminal monogram "If You Fix It, They Will Come," and anybody can tell you that we all in the development industry, we have this "Rube Goldberg" like structure of what you have to go through -- and this just outlined about 28 different steps you have to go through to maybe see your project through with all the interfacing of various different departments, Streets, Planning, L&I, Water, Board of Surveyors, Historical Commission, Zoning Board, Fairmount Park Commission, Art Commission. All these things can impact on a project, and it's daunting. So the frustration with the process is rather than -- some of these steps you have to take them one by one as opposed to on parallel tracks. What Commissioner Solvibile mentioned today is 126 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 a great thing, that you are and people are told to or at least encouraged to try and process your building permit so that it doesn't have to wait for as you try and get permission to be able to use the building. Because we always say there's permission to use it and have the zoning for it, but there's permission to occupy the building. Just because you get permission to have a real estate office doesn't mean that you have the means of egress or whatever that you may need to be able to occupy the building, and one can delay or hold up something if it's not going. So I think what people need is, they like to have time frames. It's great to hear that the state has imposed 15 days and 30 days on certain applications for building. I think one of the things we have to aim for is to have time frames also on what the stormwater management reviews are going to be and also to have some sort of 127 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 process or procedure where there can be an appeal or a right to have somebody independently hear that maybe we've met the standards or haven't met the standards. I think under the municipality's planning code, if you go out into the suburbs, once a plan is presented, a township has 90 days in which to review a plan. Maybe we need to come up with something like that and give people predictable time frames that says this will be reviewed within a certain amount of time. Now, that doesn't mean that there aren't extensions granted to municipalities to allow continued review, because obviously if you don't grant an extension sometimes, you may not get the approvals that you want from that township for the approval. So that just because you're saying there's a period of so many days doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to force the City to react within the 90-day period or 45-day 128 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 period, but at least you're setting a time frame by which a decision has to be made. It is true that -- I can tell you that as an attorney practicing in this area I can spend more time looking and reviewing plans from other professionals that we're going to be submitting to L&I, because there isn't a standard that, I guess -- there's all different kinds of lawyers, there are all different kinds of architects and engineers, and that's the frustrating part. I know it's a frustrating part for developers, but it's also a frustrating part obviously for L&I. And if we have better education and we have everybody getting on the same page that way, that helps the process. If you can have a situation where I give you a plan and it stays with one examiner and then I get comments back and forth and I don't have to go back into the cue either at the Streets 129 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Department, Water Department or L&I, that can help put some predictability or at least some continuity into the system. So I would strongly urge the creation of a multi-disciplinary team, as you've suggested in your resolution, that would be under one roof. Maybe not for a full day, but at least it gives the people the ability to do that.
I would also -- because there are times when we can go to L&I and then be told, You need to get this stamp or this stamp and then if -- and you may need a stamp from Streets Department, you may need a stamp from the Planning Commission, and if you don't get them and a change in the plan happens, then you have to go back and repeat the process of getting those stamps, prerequisite stamps, so then the plan can eventually be reviewed by L&I. So that that's time consuming and puts people into a situation where they have to go back and do things, and it's costly. 130 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 So those are some of the things that we have to look at, but I'm suggesting that we come up with maybe -- Chicago and Seattle and other cities point the way towards creating an agency or department that is sensitive to and deals with the issue of real estate development. There's also a need to provide for a more friendlier Internet with more transparent standards of review. L&I is making great strides in that, but if you go to the website of the City of Chicago, you will find a restaurant guide, what you need to do if you're going to open up a restaurant, what you need to do -- a residential developer's license that you need if you're a residential developer just for doing certain things. They talk about loan programs. They talk about how to file for permits. The City is starting to do that, but we need some more of that. This way, developers, neighbors 131 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 and residents, or whatever title you want to give an interested person, will have the ability to go on the Internet and at least get a basic understanding of some of the programs and requirements that one must comply with in order to develop a particular project. It seems that we should be able to create generic guidebooks for people opening up restaurants or neighbors attempting to build a new deck. And I know that they've done that at L&I. I know that any time you do something, people will say they haven't seen it even though I know that it's there, but if people have -- a lot of times people just want it handed to them and it's there, but if people know about it and they know it's there, but we have a lot of elderly who aren't Internet savvy, Internet friendly, so we have to be concerned in that. It also seems in the future we should be developing an office or bureau 132 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 of a hearing examiner or a real department of administrative hearings that's independent from the Department of Licenses and Inspections, Finance or the current Bureau of Administrative Appeals or other agency of the City that allows for individuals to have their matter heard in an efficient manner. Chicago has a Bureau of Administrative Appeals where a lot of quality of life issues go, environmental issues, if we get into sustainability, get into trash and those kinds of issues. And there's ways to give notice to the public where public citizens can get involved in the hearing process. Because I think what we're getting into is people want -- "transparency" is the buzz word. People want to be able to know that they have a say, that they're being heard, but also that their quality of life issues are being addressed. And I think that it's a mission that -- in the old days, you could ask 133 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 L&I to do it. And I don't want to give up any of Commissioner Solvibile and Deputy Commissioner Evans' prerogatives here, but I think we should really rethink. Over the years, the United States has created the Health and Human Services. We created HUD. We created different departments that said, Hey, the way things are happening, we got to regroup our functions. So that's why I'm saying that maybe the time has come with regards to real estate development or development which would help neighbors also, that we need to think about those kinds of things.
So I urge the undertaking that you're doing right now, and I believe that there will be probably new proposals forthcoming from a new administration to separate out the development process from the enforcement procedure. But the goal is to create a system where individuals, whether they be developers or a homeowner, can see the light at the end 134 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 of the development tunnel because the pathway they must travel is described and illuminated in a way that they can understand. So I urge you to continue to discuss these improvements, not only to the Department of Licenses and Inspections, but as I have suggested, perhaps rethinking of the various departments and their functions that impact on the development process within the City of Philadelphia. I thank you for the opportunity to present these thoughts to this honorable committee, and I stand available for any questions.
Thank you. Could you give a specific example of the entangling of the development process and enforcement, and also what this situation might look like in an ideal world?
I guess there's a column that Bill Conlin writes for the 135 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. " I never had that ability to think about if I were the king, but I think that -- I mean, I know that what's happened is that the Department of License and Inspections has set into process a procedure where they will send out letters to people to ask them to come to an administrative hearing in front of, I believe it is, the individual or that section that has cited them for a violation. But I don't think people avail themselves of that practice that much, but it's -- but those are the kinds of things that -- in other words, I know that we're trying to get enforcement, we're trying to get some revenues, but revenues can be gotten different ways. Revenues can be gotten by if you have plan reviews and you get more plans reviewed. Revenue can be gotten by inspections to see what inspections you have. So you don't have to be punitive in terms of the way you 136 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 look at it to say that we just need to have more violations. So that if you have an administrative set-up where people can get their -- you have a situation where if the law changes -- and let's take special assembly occupancies. Once the fire happened in Rhode Island at that nightclub, we had lots of different regulations, ordinances passed, changes in the building codes, and you had establishments that had existed for a number of years now having to come up to a certain standard. As that's happened over the years either with the high rise code or even with special assembly occupancies, you get in a situation where people have to play catch-up. Some people play and hide their head in the sand until they get caught or you can have a system hopefully, if you were the king, that would encourage people to come forward, work with them, because we're dealing with public safety, not be 137 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 punitive in terms of trying to threaten to shut them down or something like that. And I know L&I tries to do that and then you do get people -- I guess that's why we as lawyers at the end, we get to see the people that are sort of kicking and dragging their heels and not maybe coming forward all the time to comply. And that's what you have in a big city, but if we had a system like that where you could still have a shot at not going into the Code Enforcement Court yet or, God forbid, into Equity Court, which, as the Commissioner says, is a special situation, because then you could at least give people a chance. Once you've given people a chance, as you heard, they don't charge or assess you for inspections until the third inspection. So at least give people one or two opportunities. And then if you can't, then obviously you do need to use the stick approach as opposed to the carrot approach. 138 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 So I think as programs change, as things get more technical and we have to look to the source, the source of all is City Council also passing legislation that requires either initiatives that need to be done either without providing the funding -- just like Congress, I think sometimes City Council gets involved in those kinds of projects and passes those kinds of laws that puts an impact on L&I and the whole enforcement structure, which is why I'm saying that maybe we need to separate out and there's an agency that deals with giving you permits, looking at the permits and everything like that, but a division that deals with the building code and then has its own little section of the administrative hearing board that hears building enforcement applications so you have specialized people hearing that. I mean, sometimes the frustration may be with the court system for L&I in some respects, is that sometimes depending on 139 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 different judges you get, you may get different interpretations of what's important, what's not important or what needs time.
If we have a system where people can get like a centralized opinion from -- like Seattle has an Office of Hearing Examiner that on certain issues tries to coordinate the policy of the city and its response so that everybody is on the same page, so that you don't get a different interpretation from L&I that you might get from the Water Department. I mean, you can also get into situations in this town with the new stormwater management requirements where there's still jurisdictional issues as to what kind of material you can use and depending on where it is. With stormwater management and the emphasis -- and it's noble and I've told Brian Mullen and Christine Marjoram, who are here today, that I think what they're doing is correct and I've privately -- I've told 140 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 some members of City Council that Philadelphia is doing something that it has to do, because other cities have faced consent decrees from the Environmental Protection Agency that none of us want to face, so that they're stuck dealing with a project-by-project basis. But we're hit with these things and what's happening is, you may need a certain type of material for interior plumbing, but then if you were to impose that kind of a standard on the stormwater drainage piping that goes away from the building, you may cost the project to a certain extent that you're not going to get large-scale development in the City of Philadelphia. And departments have to be able to work that out and be able to talk and be on the same page. So there's issues where we're not all talking on the same page when it comes to how to proceed and how we deal with the changes in technology and materials.
That was 141 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 pretty thorough. Thank you. Are you familiar with the joint committee mentioned in the testimony of the City Planning Commission?
I didn't really hear exactly. I know that they had workshops leading up to the Zoning Commission, and the Planning Commission has reached out. I mean, every department -- we've met with -- we have a working group through the BIA with the Water Department and we meet on a regular basis with the stormwater management people through the Managing Director's Office, and it's great. Everybody hears what we're saying and there's reaction. But I think we need -- so we have that. L&I, sadly I know -- and, Eileen, I don't want to -- it's something Eileen Evans wants to get started again, and sadly, it used to happen, but I think with the change in personnel and everything, there used to be a Technical Advisory Committee of the Department of License and 142 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Inspections that would come up with a coherent policy on issues that kept coming up that needed a coherent one sort of approach. And that used to include at some point -- it was nothing that the applicant could go to, but you could always ask for it. And it sort of died, and I know Eileen would like to get it started, so I'd love to give Eileen the ability to have this. It would be the Law Department, the Planning Commission and the Department of Licenses and Inspections. So that you could get together if there is a provision of ordinance that everybody is sort of having trouble with, at least everybody could now say, This is how we're going to deal with it. And I think that's something I would hope that we would give L&I the ability to get back together and do something like that. And I think it got decimated by changes in personnel or people not being around anymore who had that kind of institutional knowledge. 143 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 But all these things that can get people together like that and get the agencies talking together are good things, and it helps people. But I also can't stress predictability and timelines and the ability to at least then have a way to say, I can take you to the Zoning Board, I can take you to the L&I Review Board or maybe I can have my stormwater plan reviewed after 30 days or 40 days, where I think I've hit the best management practices. Maybe, with all due respect, the Water Department feels we haven't, but somewhere somebody ought to be able to have that set up. And it's not in the ordinance right now for any kind of review like that, but, again, I think if you give people some sort of sense that there's an ultimate timeline, then people know that the process is moving, and that will help development.
I agree with you. The Chair recognizes Councilman 144 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Greenlee.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Quickly, Mr. Pollack, just getting back to this whole idea where you're saying about a hearing examiner or, as your testimony says, a real department of administrative hearings that's independent of L&I. Now, are you talking about in timeliness or -- what problems are you trying to solve?
Well, not timeliness in a sense, but in other words, in essence, you're being -- depending on how you want to look at it, and I know I've got tons of information you can pull off from Chicago or from Seattle, but if you have -- they decide to have an independent bureau. So that what would happen would be -- and you'd have people who were trained to be judges or mediators, the department -- departments have their view of something. Individuals have their view of whether or 145 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 not they've lived up to the law. So if you have an independent -- just right now on parking tickets, I guess you can go to the Bureau of Administrative Appeals. Not to harp on it, but I know that if you wanted to challenge whether or not you were subject to fines for having put up your campaign signs on certain places, that was an appeal, because it was written up on a ticket that --
A violation. But what I think is that if you set up this system -- and it would be a system where neighbors could come in also and they would get notice. You're not trying to set it up -- but it sort of acts as like a process for mediation within a neighborhood also and gives neighborhood people an opportunity to look at these things. Some cities, you know, have authorized -- I think they're called 146 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 blight busters, where they've trained people to -- L&I because of the fact they don't have as many people that they can be out on the street -- I forget what city it is, but it's one of the things that I know that maybe the next administration is looking into, is that -- hopefully the next administration -- is that people get trained to be the eyes and ears to look so that it can be helpful. And you may need to set up a separate track so you don't bug the hell out of L&I's inspectors so they're all bogged down just dealing with private people, but you may need to -- just like we've privatized or created special services districts where you get more services and your trash gets picked up but you have to pay more money for real estate taxes, we need to privatize people possibly to help us do some of these things, but then you have to set up a separate track. But also, it doesn't have you 147 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 also going to the individual or the agency or institution that cited you and say, I don't think I'm wrong. This would give you an opportunity to be able to at least say -- and not in the court setting yet.
You're talking about something before like the Zoning Board, before you get to the Zoning Board or administrative adjudication?
Well, no. I'm talking more about where you get cited for an offense or something, an offense that would maybe go to Municipal Court possibly. Maybe you could have -- and they do try and do that. I'm not saying that they don't, but I'm saying other cities have apparently decided, after allowing their own departments to handle it, have decided to go to an independent bureau that sets these things up and hears them. Now, maybe it's creating another bureaucracy, and we don't want to 148 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 do that.
I guess that's where I was thinking. It sounds like it's another --
But they also -- I mean, Chicago has four hearing rooms outside in different parts of the city so that people can be a little bit closer.
Not to elongate it, Mr. Chairman, but just I'm thinking those people in Chicago and Seattle, they're appointed by somebody in government, right?
Well, you'll like it in Seattle. The City Council actually appoints them.
Never mind. It just seems -- I mean, you'd know a whole lot about it. It just seems like it's almost overcomplicating it, 149 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 because you're not talking about doing away with --
We're not talking about doing away with enforcement, but I'm saying that if you were to rethink what agencies do and departments do, that maybe the mission of enforcement for L&I should maybe -- or maybe you set up something else, because they have a lot of stuff on their plate and the world has become much more complicated for them, and unless we're going to give them the resources to really fully do their job, if you can have -- if we're talking about having computers that interact and talk to each other -- and that may be a hard task because it gets Streets Department and Water Department and all the departments to use the same system and talk to each other -- we should be looking that what agencies are doing these days. If you were to develop it along sustainability and let's say that you are now to have the Department of 150 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Environmental Protection for the City of Philadelphia, it wouldn't just be the Water Department. You would have other things that you would look at. And maybe Philadelphia needs its own department like that that brings some of the disciplines together. And maybe the thing that L&I does well is review applications, review plans and does those kinds of things. Maybe there's a different department that should be charged with closing up buildings and those kinds of things that is not necessarily -- that's something that L&I has done over the years, but maybe so that you can free up people to do certain things. As you say, you want to target hot areas where maybe you can generate fees or generate income. Also make it easier for your citizens to be able to get permits, to be able to know what quality of life is supposed to be in their neighborhood. So if somebody is doing -- so... 151 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355
I'm trying to think out of the box a little bit, that's all.
Thank you, Mr. Pollack. I appreciate you taking the time to come here and testify.
The next witness is Paul Lonie. Good afternoon and thank you for your patience. I appreciate you taking the time here and being patient. I know it's been a long wait.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee on Licenses and Inspections. My name is Paul Lonie, Philadelphia Projects Director for Westrum Development Company. Today I'm here to testify on Resolution 11 No. 070355 submitted by Councilman Savage on April 26, 2007. I have been with Westrum Development Company for over three years, and in that time, I've directed all of Westrum's Philadelphia projects until they are well into construction. They include the various phases of Packer Park in South Philadelphia, Brewerytown in North Philadelphia, Schuylkill Falls in the northwestern part of the City, Byberry in the greater Northeast and our future project at the old Philly Coke property in Bridesburg. Prior to that, as many of you know, I spent 36 years in 153 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 the City Streets Department. Needless to say, I've been around a while. L&I, like all City agencies, was set up in 1954 with the Home Rule Charter. With different administrations and priorities changing, the basic set-up of the Department didn't change very much. What it did do was shrink. Like other departments, it lost most of its people from areas that did not have responsibilities for health or safety, including zoning, building plan examiners and other engineers that were expensive and difficult to replace. During the '80s and '90s, there was not a great deal of residential building going on, so it seemed to be an easy target. I know this because the same thing happened in the Streets Department. But that is for the next administration to deal with. I would like to relate my dealings with L&I from the developer's perspective. Time spent at L&I for zoning and building permits is mostly waiting. 154 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 As I previously stated, this is not surprising due to the personnel restrictions. The Zoning Code is voluminous and open to overlays that make planning difficult at best. There are discrepancies between L&I's plumbing code and the Water Department's watershed's requirements, for example, that makes approvals very challenging. However, L&I and its administration is probably one of the best departments in returning phone calls, and they're willing to listen if your professional architect has interpreted the building code differently, not always agreeing but not dismissing you out of hand as some other departments will do. I believe much of this comes from the direction of the Commissioner and his department heads, and I would like to commend that effort. Change is difficult, and for L&I to change, it must reflect the needs 155 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 of many different groups that L&I serves. I feel we need to redefine the City departments to best serve the needs of the citizens for the 21st century, not the 20th. Councilman Savage, by holding this hearing, it shows that this Council is looking for input from many sectors of the City to help solve these problems. I think this is the key to making the City government more representative and better able to help all Philadelphians as we move into the future. I thank this Committee for letting me testify and be glad to answer any questions.
Thank you for coming here. In your opinion, how can we coordinate the efforts of the different departments to avoid duplication of effort and delay?
I think one of the departments, as people have cited before 156 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 in the "If You Build It, They Shall Come" book, I was quoted in there as having a separate department out of the Managing Director's Office that would kind of coordinate all the different development agencies together. I felt that way when I worked for the Streets Department. I feel that way now on the outside. So many times everybody is concerned with their little section of the code. When I was in the Streets Department, I knew Section 11 of the code inside and out, but I really didn't know very much about what was going on in the plumbing code or what was going on in the water code. Someone from the Managing Director's Office whose responsibility is not to be specifically known on one thing but to have the general overall view of development and, say, when a project gets held up somewhere why is it, where it is and what can I do to help I think is really necessary.
Okay. How 157 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 can we merge the different legal requirements of different entities? For example, you point out conflicts between the City's plumbing code and the Water Department's watershed's requirements. What is your suggestion for overcoming those conflicts?
The conflicts again, as they've been already started, is negotiation. The plumbing code is dealing with the way things were in the '60s and '70s. Watersheds was not even dreamed of when the plumbing code first came into existence. And, again, it's this Council's responsibility to amend that code. And the code is amended all the time. And if a group would come and say, This is a better way of doing this and they came to the Council and they amended the code, it can be done. Again, going back to one of my responsibilities when I was with the Survey Bureau, this Council was tied up with every small minimal curb change that 158 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 happened in the City of Philadelphia, because the curb required -- or the code required that Council have an ordinance 5 for every time you moved a curb line six inches, up or down or horizontally. Well, I said that was rather silly. I came to the Chairman of the Streets and Services Committee and said, This is really something that should be dealt with administratively. Would you mind if I put through an ordinance to kind of dump that over onto the Streets Department? He said, Well, let's see how it works. And it did, and that probably cut down at least 50 hearings a year on these silly little things. It's possible to do. It really is. And if you have an administration and the people in the departments that are willing to get behind that program, it's very doable.
Thank you, Mr. Lonie. I appreciate your testimony 159 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 and your patience and your time. Thank you. Denise Earley from the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce, she had to leave. I would like to enter her testimony, her written testimony, in the record. Also we have here to testify Pam Pendleton from Yorktown Community Stakeholders Committee. Good afternoon.
Good afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and the distinguished members of Council, for this opportunity to testify in the interest of Council collecting data to improve License and Inspections. My name is Pamela Pendleton-Smith. I am a member of the Yorktown Community Stakeholders Committee. Yorktown is a single-family dwelling district plagued by illegal rooming houses established in our midst. This problem was acknowledged by City Council in 2005 and resulted in a special 160 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 district being established. Its purpose was in order to preserve and protect this area of the City through the enactment of the North Central Philadelphia Community Special District Controls. It is recognized that this section of the City is unique and is a vital single-family residential district. This pattern contributes to the distinctive atmosphere of this area. Council recognized the need to establish a special land use and zoning controls to protect this community from the conversions of houses into apartments, tenements and multi-family dwellings which would de-stabilize the community by taking on the transient character inherent in apartment and tenement living, to sustain and promote single-family residential uses and to prevent declining property values. This legislation, which is Chapter 14 -- Title 14-1629, was enacted. Yet in spite of constant communication between the Committee and License and 161 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Inspections, the administration of the Department insists this legislation is a paper tiger of sorts, that it cannot be enforced. Therefore, the problem still exists and it serves to de-stabilize the community. Now, the problem that we have as a result of this rooming house activity, we have construction or rehabs that are done without permits or licenses, which we report to License and Inspections, but a lot of times the response to those complaints are not timely. Therefore, the construction of the rehab is completed. We have the situation where the rooming house activity -- which is made up of more than three unrelated people in one property. Now, License and Inspections said that it's almost impossible to enforce that restriction because due to constitutional considerations, you can't just do gestapo, going into a property, which we 162 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 understand, but our question is, how do they enforce that regulation elsewhere in the City? When that regulation was passed, wasn't that taken into consideration on how do you prove that these four or six people in a property are unrelated? We have also had instances of fraud or deceit used by the property owner in acquiring the permit or licenses. There are members of our community that have formed a sort of watchdog entity where we've been checking with the records, the zoning records in the Department, to see if what we see on site in the community matches up with what they have applied for in the licenses and the permits, and a lot of times there are differences. There are also reports of non-occupancy. The tenants have reported themselves that the property owner has asked them to lie to the inspectors when the inspectors come. License and 163 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Inspections has advised us that whenever there's a cease and desist notice placed on a property, that we're to call 9-1-1, to call the police, and they pick up the enforcement piece of that, but, of course, when we call 9-1-1, in their priority list, this doesn't even show on the list to be attended to because with what we have with the violence and everything, we understand that that does take precedence. So we're left with the cease and desist that is of non-effect. We just wanted to go on record as saying that this situation exists in our community and the findings that the Council acknowledged at the time the legislation was passed, those findings still exist.
Now, maybe the restricted or the prohibited uses are unenforceable, but the findings and the purpose still exist, and we would just make an appeal to this body to maybe rethink it to see if maybe we can have some things done that would help with the stabilization of 164 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 our community. Thank you very much.
Thank you. One question for you. This legislation that you're speaking of, can you elaborate more on that?
It's Title under Zoning and Inspections of 10 the City Code, Title 14-1629, North 11 Central Philadelphia Community Special 12 District Controls. And that stated that 13 with our community being a single-family 14 district, there's been recent activity of speculators coming into our community, taking the single-family properties and sometimes cutting them up physically, but most times just loading them with five, six tenants where they would charge $600 to $800 per tenant per month in that one property.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 165 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 I was wondering on -- the woman here, the witness, is talking about a specific area, but I know rooming houses generally are a problem. Could I ask the Commissioner to come back for a second? Could I ask him a question on that?
Commissioner, just generally on rooming houses, not specifically in Yorktown, I know that's a problem because, as the witness stated, you just can't go in and demand who everybody is, but I guess when the property is broken up, it's easier to give the violation, right, when it's clear it's separate? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: Let's say we go into a property and there's five bedrooms and they're all locked, the doors. We write it up as a rooming unit automatically. We know that's what it is. It's not a single-family house where a group of people exist as a group to live and work in Philadelphia. It's more 166 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 than that. So we write it up, because then it requires fire alarms and zoning, the key being zoning. And in this district, you need to -- you cannot rent to Temple students and then -- we're beyond that and we've been working with -- there's a list of about 9 properties that I saw a report on 10 yesterday or the other day that they've 11 all been inspected. Now, I didn't have 12 time to read it. I know there's a 13 follow-up meeting in the Managing 14 Director's Office with the Yorktown 15 community, and the violations will then 16 be discussed with the community at that 17 point. 18
Often times is it students that cause the -- when I say "bigger problem," I mean the less enforceable problem? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: You know, Councilman, say you go into a building and it really hasn't physically changed, but there's ten people living in 167 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 there, but it's during the day and everybody is out doing their thing, and our inspectors as a whole are there during the day, not in off hours. So it is difficult, but there are certain telltale signs that we look for and our inspectors look for. You know, we take all the codes seriously, but we take the life safety issues where, God forbid, a fire could happen to be the most serious violations, and the young lady mentioned the cease operations. We would automatically cease for that. If there was, say, five people and no fire alarm, it's a cease operations. And we deal with that situation one on one sort of.
Would you say the code is sufficient right now as talking about the general purpose of this hearing to talk about improvements? Is there something that needs to be changed in the code, in your opinion? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: 168 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 There's a whole -- the Zoning Code is now being looked at, as you're aware of, and this is Title 14, which comes under -- anything with zoning I have to turn behind me. I have two experts right behind me. It's not one of my favorite topics, zoning, in the world. -- (continued) is going to be changed. And I think that we -- I think that there's a lot of room for improvement in the whole Zoning Code from everybody's prospect, from the developers and from the communities, and I think that if we make it simpler, which is what I believe the goal should be to the Zoning Commission, then it's more enforceable and more understandable and is easier to deal with, and that benefits everybody. So the answer is yes, I think it can be improved upon.
And would you say this is one of the tougher zoning problems because of the -- trying to 169 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 figure out who lives in a property and all? COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I could write a book on zoning. I can't tell you what I really think of zoning, because they would kick me out of here, but --
Well, you're going to retire eventually anyway. Go ahead. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: I've been kicked out of places like this, I guess. But I always say when -- this is what I found in my professional career: When it sounds like you should be able to do it, it's simple, zoning says no, you can't. And that's really -- and then where it seems like you can have 20 people living in a cardboard box, it says yes. So it goes from really common sense -- and I think we're beyond common sense in the code, and that's what this Commission should bring back into the 170 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 process, a common sense, easily understood zoning code that benefits the community, the Department, the inspectors, the development community. It benefits everybody.
Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. May I offer into the record, I have a five-page document that the community got together, and it's just some suggestions and it's titled "What Can License and Inspections Do?" A lot of this came from the current City code of saying that it would help alleviate the problems that we're having in our community. We understand that it's not one magic bullet to dispel the entire problem. It has to be piecemealed together. So I have -- I think over the six pages it's about maybe ten suggestions of what License and Inspections can do and I have a one10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 of what City Council can do, if I can offer it for the record, please.
I just want to add I'm glad we only have one page and they have six. COMMISSIONER SOLVIBILE: That's always the case, and you all write the code.
Well, thank you for your testimony. I appreciate your time you took to come down here. Is there anyone else left to testify?
Are you asking for members of the public to come up and testify?
I didn't know if there were other people on your list that you were asking for. 172 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355
My name is Al Alston. I'm President of an organization known as the African-American Business and Residents Association, and I am Secretary of a companion organization, the African-American Business and Residents Association CDC. Regretfully, we are so overwhelmed with other things that we actually didn't find out about this hearing until Pam sent an e-mail to our organization and let us know, so I don't have comprehensive testimony. This is a really important issue, and L&I, its procedures need to be examined for sure. But I wanted to offer a few statements. First of all, we run a community center. We call it Songhai City Cultural Center at 3117 Master Street, and we have had to go through just maybe ten different L&I inspectors over the last three years to make sure 173 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 that our building was fully up to code, and they made things, we thought, just much harder than they needed to be, but in the end, we received all of our approvals. We just had two inspections last month, and we had to spend an additional $5,000 to make some additional changes, but in the end, we have a building that is safer, that is better, that is a place that we can be even more proud of than we had before. And this is an important building for our community. It's the only community center we have in Brewerytown, and it's privately run, privately owned and its public-private partnership runs it. So on the plus side, we would like to say that from our experience with L&I, their inspectors tend to be tough but fair. And so overall on average, we think that that's great, that's a good thing that L&I is doing the right thing in terms of inspections. However, there are very serious problems, and there are 174 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 just three that I'd like to talk about. The first one is that while most inspectors seem to be just doing their jobs, there is often selective enforcement. And we find selective enforcement for purposes that we believe are political or sometimes personal, and I'll give you three quick examples. Rosemary Cubas and Lisa Sigurres of the Community Leadership Institute -- and Rosemary Cubas left us last year, may she rest in peace. They were active in eminent domain issues several years ago, and what they determined by communicating with L&I inspectors is that at a time when the City and the Redevelopment Authority really wanted to find properties they could take through eminent domain, the inspectors were given an order -- and we don't know how high up in L&I it came -- to, quote, go out and see what you can see, find essentially any property that looks abandoned and put an imminently 175 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 dangerous sign on it, whether or not it was imminently dangerous. " That's a political use of eminent domain, and it had nothing to do with the code. A second example of a political or personal purpose is that we wrote to Commissioner Solvibile when he was Acting Commissioner about three or four years ago. We complained about a developer that we believed had obtained zoning approval through the violation of ZBA Regulation 3. ZBA Regulation 3 talks about how long you're supposed to post your zoning notices so there's community notification. In fact, a zoning inspector's report stated that there was not the proper notice to the community. Yet the Zoning Board still heard the case and the community was not represented properly there, and so we argued to the -- and the Zoning Board granted 176 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 approval to this developer. And we argued in a letter to the Commissioner, the Acting Commissioner at the time, that any permits that follow from a violation of Regulation 3 are subject to Regulation 17, which says that that zoning approval didn't matter anymore, didn't count, it was null and void.
So we expect -- we cited court cases, we cited everything that was needed to show the Commissioner that he had the enforcement power to revoke any permits that were issued as a result of that improperly retained zoning. This was an enforcement matter. It wasn't even a legal matter at that point. But what did the Commissioner do -- and I'm glad he's here, because he denied us any meeting. Three months it took him to get back to us. Three months it took him. We've made follow-up phone calls. We visited his office. We did everything we could to meet with this man, but for three months he did nothing 177 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 that we could discern until he sent us a letter, and the letter simply said that he wasn't going to do anything and we had to go back to the Zoning Board to have them enforce their own decision or to reverse themselves. So the point is, for a political reason, we believe that he did some inaction. And I'm getting back to -- the point is, this is an example of --
Excuse me for one second. I appreciate you taking the time to come here and testify, but this is more of a private matter. The resolution was basically centered on the permit process and L&I and efficiencies.
And I understand that, and if I'm longwinded on this second example of what's wrong with L&I, I do apologize and I can move on so that -- but the point is, I was simply saying that there are times when L&I makes decisions that's based on politics 178 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 and not based on the Zoning Code. And a third example is what's happening right now to us. And I don't know what else to cite but things that we know for sure, but I'll just say it in two sentences. A developer is tearing down a wall that adjoins us, and we wanted to make sure that there was an engineer's report, that there was going to be proper enforcement of the Zoning Code -- excuse me; proper enforcement of the building code in terms of demolishing a shared wall essentially. So what we did is, we filed a complaint with L&I, and the inspector who came out started talking to us about his political beliefs and siding with the developer and not us. And what we found interesting here is that the -- we believe that the inaction that this inspector took was also based on politics. And we won't get into a lot of the details here or any more of the details, but we have situations where we 179 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 believe that L&I acts specifically because of political objectives, and because of that, we believe that there needs to be --
Sir, if you were here at the beginning of the hearing, I specifically said this isn't a critique of the License and Inspections Department.
So to get to three improvements that we are suggesting, I had to cite what examples we have of concerns. Well, the final -- and I won't give an example. I'll simply say that when you have a complaint against an inspector, you typically go to a supervisor, and there doesn't seem to be any standard that the supervisor uses to pull in another inspector that you believe perhaps has less bias or things of that sort. So essentially -- I'm sorry. That's a separate matter. And the final matter is that 180 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 you don't get notice if you're a neighbor of any demolition that's occurring on your block or in your community. There is no requirement, for instance, that the home next door to a building that's being demolished receives any notice. So you get a lot of unpleasant outcomes that occur, such as what we're experiencing now. So there are three things that we believe the City Council should investigate further when -- and I'm certain this resolution will be approved and we certainly hope that there is fact-finding that is significant and detailed, but there are three things we think that need to be included in that. One, a requirement of community notification of any demolition. So a public posting perhaps two weeks in advance, unless something is imminently dangerous, but a public posting on the actual property and a certified mail notice to the immediate neighbors, so 181 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 that if there are issues that an examiner has missed or if there are issues that a particular contractor is hiding, then the neighbors, such as a shared wall, the neighbors can point out to L&I, You know what, that permit shouldn't have been issued or it should be modified. Secondly, we believe that there needs to be a community/business watchdog created to address questions of bias within L&I. And bias can take any number of forms, from petty citations to non-uniform rules enforced throughout the City. This watchdog group should ensure that instructions given by L&I hierarchy are per the City Charter, and I'll cite the Rosemary Cubas example. And also receive whistleblower calls from within L&I. So the comments made by Attorney Pollack go directly to this point, and he cited great examples in Seattle, a Seattle independent bureau. And I think all of his reasons were 182 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 eloquently argued, and I think we really have to take them seriously. I know he spoke on an ad hoc basis, but I think that there is an important need to create an entity that polices the enforcement that L&I does or that perhaps just takes over the enforcement, because L&I too often is susceptible to political persuasion or just bias for some other reason. So while many of the individual inspectors I think do a fair job, when things go wrong, they really go wrong in L&I. And, finally, the third thing that I hope you focus on is that do nothing to rush through permits. Developers want permits to rush through and everybody would like them to happen as quickly as possible, but do nothing to rush them through unless you also include further community involvement in the permitting process. So if you're going to speed up the permitting process, make sure you're increasing community 183 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 notification and community participation so that unpleasant outcomes don't occur. So I do apologize if in fact you thought I wanted to resolve some personal matters here, but in fact, my only objective was to cite examples so that I could get to our conclusion. That's all. If there are any questions, I'd be happy to answer.
Good afternoon. Could you please identify yourself for the record.
Yes. My name is Eunice Birch and I'm a tenant, and the reason why I'm here is because I heard this morning on KYW that City Council is having some kind of meeting regarding 184 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 License and Inspection. And what my problem is is that I'm a tenant and in December I had notified License and Inspection of the property being without any heat. It took an inspector about like two weeks to come out and inspect the property, but after he inspected the property, the inspector never returned. And from December all the way up until June, there was no heat in the property. When I contacted the Commissioner, the Commissioner had the Deputy Commissioner to acknowledge my correspondence, and the Deputy Commissioner did inform me that the owner was to become prosecuted in the court, but what happened was, enforcement never enforced any code violations, and in June, they said that the owner had came into compliance, and in August, they said he did not have to be prosecuted, nor did the owner have to pay any fines that was associated with the code violations. And my concern was that I was a tenant, and he was supposed to be 185 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 providing -- and if License and Inspection is the agency that was responsible for ensuring that tenants receive heat, License and Inspections did not do this. And then by me not having heat for over seven months, the owner gets a pat on the back when the owner never really came into any kind of compliance. And if he was in violation and you're in violation and fines and penalties are associated with these violations, I don't understand how any person, not just an owner, any person can be in violation for about seven months and then all of a sudden you don't have to pay no fines, no nothing associated with these violations, and the tenant is the one that's still the victim. Ever since Saturday I've been trying to get heat.
We can look -- you have Councilman Savage here and Councilman Greenlee. We can look into that, and we have the Commissioner 186 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 behind you. But I thank you for taking the time out.
Yes, sir. That's the only reason why I'm here, and I thank you for allowing me the opportunity to be heard.
Thank you. This will be concluding the hearing on License and Inspections. I'd like to thank everybody that came out today. And, once again, I'd like to commend the L&I Department, Commissioner Solvibile, Deputy Commissioner Evans and Mr. Murray. You guys are doing a good job, and I think we're all in agreement that everyone that was here says -- you got a lot of accolades, but everyone is in agreement that we still need to go forward. You are doing a lot of great changes and there's still more changes that need to be made, and we will see recommendations. I appreciate everyone for coming out, and I conclude this hearing. 187 10/16/07 - L&I - RES. 070355 Thank you. (Committee on Licenses and Inspections adjourned at 4:10 p.m.) - - - 188 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on October 16, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)