you heard about this project in any way was in early december of 2025 and then the first time
you heard about the project particularly was at a meeting of the east mount areas neighbors
association which was in mid-december of 2025 maybe maybe i'm wrong that's not the question
i i was very specific with my question my question was when did you first learn that
the zoning permit had been issued. I didn't use project or proposal or general. It was very
specific. That's what just now was November. November 9th. What she learned about like the
project. The project. I used the word zoning permit. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I think I just
wanted to help along here. So I'm sharing my screen and these are materials that our office
submitted to the ZVA. We did a resubmission because I found another piece of legislation
that Sidney Bass proposed and was, you know, passed city council in November of 2020. But if
you look at this, is this the petition that you were stating that was created in November 9th of
2025? Opposed increase the apartments at 6930 Ardley Street, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania?
That is what I signed on the 9th of November. I don't know when it was created.
yeah well it's i circled it this was not this is just a printout that we our office
got off the internet that circle did not exist at the time our office
about embellished that piece of paper just so the board can see it but it does say post created on
november 9 2025 right yes okay um and did the petition include any additional information about
the project um it included like the a drawing a rendering of what was proposed
the units and then just like a just a a a summary of of of what was going to
what was how the dwelling was going to be attached to to the neighboring
um have you ever done development on your on any property you have ever owned
yes okay uh when when and how um we've done development here at the house that we live in
okay and did you get permits when you did that yes okay and did you hire an architect when you
did that my husband mainly takes care of it he that's his forte okay so your husband um and
maybe we'll have to ask him his forte, what his forte is, but what's your understanding what his
forte is and his experience level? Well, when you, my understanding is that in order to make
adjustments to your property, you have to get a building permit and you have to get a license or
if you're changing a dwelling, you have to, you have to get authorization in terms of changing
the zoning.
Gotcha.
And again, I think I asked this question, when you did development on your property,
um which is nearby to this property you did obtain the requisite permits and approvals from
which is nearby to this property, you did obtain the requisite permits.
Thank you.
the city of philadelphia yes okay um were you involved in in making sure that the permits were
actually obtained yes i mean they were here and they were displayed when we when we when we got
the term it's they're quite prominent okay did you confirm it online in any way that the permits were
obtained um my husband would have taken care of that i personally would not have done that okay
all right so as early as november 9th of 2025 you knew the existence of this development project
that's correct okay um i'm gonna go to
which is our Exhibit 11, your Petition None Protonq, which is the cover page.
Here you state in the last paragraph, appellant and supporting neighbors upon learning of the
zoning changes that yielded this miscarriage of approval have begun interviewing counsel
to represent them in this matter. This filing will be updated to reflect retained counsel
upon selection and as such is filed with leave to amend.
So you discussed this matter with some neighbors of yours.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
So the neighbors, there was a multiple neighbors that we discussed regarding our filing this appeal.
When did those conversations with your neighbors start?
They probably started, well, for the appeal in December when we found out about the zoning, about the permits.
so in terms of just generally about the project when did you start generally it would have been
in november and would that be november 9th um probably a little bit before just because the
well i mean probably wasn't i i maybe a day or two i'm not 100 sure exactly of when but it would
have been in november all right and then by the way how did you find that petition of change.org
um richard texted it to me
okay um and then so in november which neighbors were you communicating with about the development
project um a next door neighbor kevin and um another neighbor maxine well let's go one at a
time next door neighbor kevin what's kevin's full name what's kevin i don't know his full name
so so what what what's his address where does he live he lives next door so we are 1715
17 ardley street he would be 17 17 70 17 70 ardley street i can't do that
what i think somebody might have chimed in yeah i think uh her husband helped that's fine
richard you can't speak yeah yeah um i know you want to help yeah all right so kevin so let's
start with kevin what how did you and kevin communicate verbally uh or in writing i did
not communicate with kevin verbally richard communicated with him
and then told me of the conversation that he had and vice versa when he had a conversation with
maxine he told me about the conversation that he had with maxine regarding the the property
all right so what did your husband uh tell you about his conversation with kevin
um well there was going to be a meeting an email meeting on december 15th and
that we should join the meeting this was a meeting that was scheduled as early as early november of
2025 um it's a monthly meeting
so and and they have set dates so um i i'm not 100 sure the the dates like i said when
richard had a discussion with with kevin but um i knew that the neighbors were were chattering
amongst them regarding the the project so there was a meeting that was ultimately scheduled
with the neighborhood organization do you have a copy of of a notice that was sent
in writing in some capacity um no i probably there was probably a link send an email
um no i probably there was probably a link sent an email or a text message
but most likely um an email it was not sent to me it was sent to richard and we both joined from his
computer okay um what about maxine like did you you're saying that richard your husband
had communications with Maxine as well is that correct yep all right and where does Maxine live
she lives adjacent to our property um so she lives on like Mount Pleasant so she lives adjacent we
see her from time to time when she takes her dog out for a walk and we'll see her and and just
chit chat so that's that's most likely where we we found out about the project
um and do you know maxine's last name no i do not
were there any other neighbors you spoke to in november of 2025 regarding this project no not
that i recall okay and what other communications with richard in in november of 2025 did you have
regarding this project just chatter and just the text message that i got from from him regarding
signing the the petition the link to the petition so mr chair i i know that our office sent a
subpoena request for certain documents. I do believe that we should receive at least those
text messages between the appellant and her husband, Mr. Kramer, to see what was in those
text messages and the extent of what was explained to her at the time. And I would respectfully
request that. We're going to take that on the consideration, okay? Yeah, I mean, Mr.
where vanities could give it to voluntarily but i would ask that you know the board strongly
consider that especially we're talking about the fact that if the application was filed in december
december 29th of 2025 then she had until the end of november of 2025 to file this appeal
and so i i do think these text messages in november are very relevant to the percentage
mr finnese wants to respond so i would say they're completely irrelevant and the reason
they weren't included is is that they they talk about i understand what mr knockinson's doing
he's using the language repeatedly the the project the development project and that's
very different thinking that there's something come something coming down the pike or somebody
might be doing something and that's not knowing that there's a permit so i believe that and so
real quickly this is just you're you're going to answer the question about whether or not it should
be i believe that or you should voluntarily give it the petition is completely irrelevant
and because their own they provided in february 19th a copy of the petition right which i can
flash up on the screen because they've already provided it but it's okay it's not in their
latest exhibit book because it doesn't say a darn thing about a zoning permit so the petition is
otherwise i would have put it in because i think it's completely irrelevant i think leonard has a
comment here thank you i i have no position on supplying text messages or anything like that
uh i do have maybe a couple questions sure witness sure you don't know i'm not no no no i will say
this i will stipulate that my clients texted between each other on november 9th with the link
to the to the okay to the petition that's okay and i have that's fine but again i think it's
irrelevant because it doesn't talk about zoning permit yeah miss Christo you know I did I apologize
I didn't ask what what do you do for a living I'm a designer you're a designer okay and in
in what way uh graphic design gotcha all right uh and what does Mr. Kramer uh Kramer do
he has a design and build firm a design and build firm in terms of real estate
uh property operating yeah okay all right i would definitely think that mr kramer would be a witness
i would like to ask um hi so i believe he's a party so yeah he's not he is not he is as a
husband well well i disagree but okay let's go ahead alan and finish it all right um are there
Besides Kevin and Maxine, and your husband, were there any other individuals who you talked to about the project in November of 2020?
who uh you talked to about the project in november of 2025.
uh no all right um was one of the supporting uh neighbors that you spoke with
uh the owner or occupant of 6928 ardley street
what can you repeat that you you referenced supporting neighbors yes
Your petition was one of the neighbors that you referenced, generally, the owner and or occupant of 6928 Ardley Street.
I'm just trying to reference like, like who lives at 6928 Ardley Street.
I have a list of a roster of individuals.
Let me take over.
uh tracy nickens
tracy nickens no i don't know who that is okay hi um
have you been in contact with council member bass regarding this project
me personally yes no right is it is it your understanding whether or not your husband has
been in contact with council member bass yes so he has been in contact with council member bass
i believe from what i believe i don't know directly with her but definitely with um someone
on her team all right so but you don't know who on her team i don't know off the top of my head
who on on the team all right so i'm just going to go over a time or the timeline that we understand
it regarding this matter so you're stating you have no knowledge prior to
early or mid-december about the zoning permit um allowing for you know you have no knowledge
that the zoning permit was issued in September 15th of 2025.
You have no knowledge before mid-December about that.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
And you also indicated that you do acknowledge
that there was activity at the property
in November-ish and October-ish of 2025.
Is that correct?
okay she didn't say that but okay all right um and
did you see a port-a-potty installed at the at the property in october of 2025 i don't recall
and you didn't see the zoning permit that was posted on the window of the property
facing an early street side beginning on in september 2020 september 25th of 2025 i did not no
uh did you have any conversations with uh
and you didn't see the the demolition work that was taking place at the property
um from october 22nd 2025 to october 31st of 2025 at the property
i didn't see any demolition work i yeah i don't know whether that like if that was going on inside
i wouldn't have been able to have seen it and you didn't see the crew of 15 individuals uh doing
that work over the course of of that time period he's testifying well well i think she can answer
that if she knows if she knows i don't recall sure and you had no knowledge that uh council member
FAST introduced legislation in September of 2025, changing the zoning from RM1 to RTA1?
And you had no knowledge regarding the violation notices that were issued on November 4th of
2025 regarding the property?
and you have no knowledge that in on november 12th of 2025 that legislation to change the zoning for
and you have
rm1 to rta one was was signed by the mayor on november 12th of 2025 you have no knowledge of
that no and you have no knowledge that council member bass then introduced legislation to city
council on november 20th of 2025 authorizing her to appeal the lni decision granting uh the zoning
permit which is the subject of your appeal no um i have no further questions honor
short just a couple quick uh questions from the city uh just so we're clear on the chronology
um miss Christo is are you a are you a member of uh East Mount Airy Neighbours um not a full-time
member but I I became a member um a couple of well I've joined the zooms meetings a couple of times
okay including before uh December 15th not before December 15th no uh is Mr Creamer a member of
east mount airy neighbors um he's he has participated in a number of the calls
including before december 15th no okay so so but you did say that when you joined uh i guess what
when you say you were at a iman meeting uh on about december 15th was that in person or or on zoom
that was remotely that was the first meeting that we attended okay and that was remotely
and you said at that time there was although there was although 69 30 hardly wasn't on their
agenda there was some discussion about uh what was happening at 69 30 that's correct okay and
you say that it was on december 15th that you learned that a zoning permit had been issued is
that what your testimony was? That's correct, yes. And that's because somebody else at the meeting
had said that the zoning permit had been issued? That's correct, yes. Okay, so somebody else in
Iman had learned that a zoning permit had been issued presumably before that time? Yes. Okay,
now you also say that, and actually, I think Mr. Noxman has already asked this, but I just want
to confirm you had said that uh you had walked by the property many times and that you had seen
activity in october and november is that correct i don't know if it was november if if anything
it may have been earlier because it they go okay yeah yeah because as the weather gets colder i'm
less walking around the neighborhood so no thank you for that um so now you did say though that
you didn't notice in particular that there was any demolition work or that you didn't notice
whether there were i don't know whatever alan said 15 people going in and out or that there
was a porta potty installed so what if you recall if you can recall if you don't remember that's
fine but if you can recall what activity did you see taking place in october i saw i i believe i
saw the grass around the property being being cut because the grass had overgrown and it was about
three feet tall and then on one of the days i noticed that the grass had all been cut so
that was like the that that was what i really noticed because it was on the outside of the
property and it's pretty evident okay i don't have any other questions david you have uh six minutes
okay fine um christina to be clear um again the mr notkinson has used the word um development