spaces occupied so that means there's 22 that were still available to be parked in correct
correct and that's that's true for throughout this this chart correct that's correct okay
um so of the total 85 spaces um in each of these segments at a weekday midday 12 30 there were 43
parking spaces available correct that's which and likewise for the 9 30 in the evening
And then on a Sunday, 39 spaces were available, correct?
and then on the sunday 39 spaces were available correct that's correct
That's correct.
That's all that I have on that.
So in your opinion, as a professional traffic and parking engineer, is there sufficient, or let me just step back.
Will this project have any negative impacts on the traffic in the neighborhood?
It will not.
And in your opinion as a professional traffic engineer, is there adequate on-street parking combined with the off-street parking we're providing to accommodate the projected need for parking from this facility?
There is.
Okay. That's all that I have for Mr. Horner?
I have one quick question for Mr. Horner. When you did this, table two, when you did your survey, were there services going on on Sunday at the church?
I'm assuming there's services on Sunday. I maybe shouldn't assume. Whatever day they have services, either Friday, weekday, or Sunday.
Yes, there were.
And those spots were still available, even though there were services going on, correct?
That's correct.
Okay, thank you.
Mr. Bonney?
Thank you.
Good afternoon, Mr. Horner.
First of all, just a small item here.
You said that the proposed project would require by the city 26 spaces.
I think the refusal says 27.
Can we agree that whatever the refusal says is probably more accurate than your recollection?
I would agree, yes.
Okay, thank you.
You mentioned that in your experience that not a lot of people have cars in what you're calling this an urban environment, but this is East Oak Lane.
This is not, you know, Rittenhouse Square or anything like that.
I mean, this is, but would you, you would still call this an urban environment for those purposes?
For those purposes, yes. Meaning if this was a standalone site in an area where it really was only accessible by car with no pedestrian access to anything of meaning, that would be, we'll call it a suburban or rural location.
So, yeah, I mean, this is not downtown urban, I understand that, but for the purpose of the point being that there would be likely less car use than if this development was in a less urban environment.
So for the 40 residents who would live here, how many would have cars, in your opinion?
Yeah, I would defer to Bruce Morgan to that question. And I just will add that I did not take any, I didn't make any reductions for that assumption. In other words, with the trip projections, I projected it as if it was in any environment. And the same with the parking assumptions. I just wanted to point out that I think that we get the added benefit of even less car use than typical.
So you're assuming that all 40 each have a car?
Well, that's not the assumption.
I'm assuming that this has typical characteristics of senior housing that could be located anywhere.
And even in other locations, not all of them have cars.
I'm going to move on.
Thank you.
But you mentioned that other times were studied but not included in this chart.
are those other times uh that parking was studied um included yes exactly thank you for
finishing my thought uh is it in the appendices it's the very last page uh of that document
you're getting there too far yes
i apologize i'm showing my lack of dexterity with a mouse well we're all in the same boat it's no fun
i mean i can i can answer your question even without the chart being up okay
In terms of times, we looked at weekday from 10 a.m. to 1 p.m., weekday evening from 7 p.m. to 10 p.m., and Sunday from 9 a.m. to noon.
Okay, thank you.
So what I hear not studied in that is, and I did view the video of the RCO meeting that was held, I don't know, a week or 10 days ago, give or take, where you were.
a week or 10 days ago, give or take, where you were speaking during the RCO meeting.
And would you agree with me that you were not on site for the opening of school when all the kids
are dropped off? And I'm talking about the Elwood School. And when school closes and all the kids
are picked up and that you did not observe that activity. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay,
thank you. Are you aware of what grades are involved at Elwood? You know, do you know if
it's high school or elementary school or do you know? I don't know. Okay, thank you.
would you agree with me that oak lane narrows at the 1100 block which is the
which is the block that the proposed facility is would be located uh you're talking about between
11th and 12th street uh yes it does that that that oak lane is wider in the 1200 block uh
than it is in the 1100 block i would agree with that yes okay thank you um
uh that's all i have for you thank you sir i have two questions for you mr mr horner
How close is this application to public transportation?
Would you happen to know?
I believe that the nearest public transportation is along 66th Avenue and along 11th.
I don't believe there's any that traditionally goes down 12th Street, and that's my recollection.
and the other question i don't may not be for you maybe for the bishop or someone or mr ker
uh will the housing development uh senior housing be providing any shuttle service yes
mr morgan can answer that i'll call him or i can have him answer right now if you like you can
answer it yeah just just yes or no there will be yes yes okay thank you all right uh before we go
any further gentlemen i you know we're getting it's 4 35 we don't like the rush but we do have
to get to the 330 list so if we can get to the meat of this issue on both sides it would be helpful
okay okay mr horner um i guess just a couple of follow-up for mr horner mr horner your um your
traffic your parking chart that we're showing on the screen um you did these um studies prior to
the covid shutdown correct that's correct yes and the weekday midday that was also during the school
was opened uh when you did that weekday midday survey correct it was yes okay that's all i have
for mr horner i just have a couple quick questions for the architect nancy bastion
Can I ask one follow-up to Mr. Horner?
Mr. Horner, were you the one that personally made these observations, or was it a colleague of yours?
Well, both.
The observations that made up this parking table was a colleague of mine,
although I also observed conditions on different days in similar times.
Thank you.
I didn't document my findings that are in this chart.
Thank you.
Okay, if we can move along, it would be helpful.
Nancy Bastian, could you raise your hand?
Yeah, I think I've already been admitted.
Okay, just a couple questions for you, Nancy, two or three.
You're the architect on this project, correct?
That's correct.
Did I swear her?
I forget.
You did swear her in the last time, yes?
Okay, well, thank you.
And this is your design, correct?
This is your rendering?
I'm sorry.
I hate to interrupt but she was sworn in today not today yeah that's why I didn't think so that's
why you meant last time okay been under oath since February all right okay
uh miss ma'am please identify yourself with the record yes my name is Nancy Bastian that's b-a-s-t-i-a-n
I'm an architect with Cecil Baker and Partners,
1107 Walnut Street, 19107.
You're swearing firm to tell the truth, the whole truth,
nothing but the truth?
Thank you.
Please proceed.
All right, Ms. Bastian, so you are the architect on this property, correct?
All right, Ms. Bastion.
So you are the architect on this property, correct?
Correct.
Correct.
And this is your rendering?
And this is your render?
Yes, it is.
Have you been involved in developing architectural plans for similar projects like this in the past?
Yes, I've been involved with designing affordable housing for about 25 years.
Okay, and some of those projects, or some or most of those projects, have been constructed?
yes uh and several are under construction right now one for the archdiocese on south broad street
at ellsworth street saint rita's place i would stipulate to her expertise okay and based on your
experience in designing these other projects which have been built um do you have an opinion as to
whether this is an appropriate uh development for this property um yes i do think it's an
appropriate development. And I think we've worked hard to try to create a design that
is very responsive to the community. I love East Oak Lane. I think it's beautiful. And I think we
have an opportunity to do a really beautiful building there. In addition, we really worked
hard to create that outdoor space at the corner. That's a real courtyard space there. And it plays
off the library's outdoor space right across the street. I think when we first envisioned this
project we really saw it as an opportunity to create some real positive activity at this corner
have some very beautiful outdoor green space at this corner that would not only be for the seniors
who live here but for the whole neighborhood to be able to enjoy and share and i really picture
them people coming out of the library and coming over here and sitting and reading a book and
so i do feel that it's an appropriate building along oak lane avenue given the other civic
buildings that are along this street. Okay, so you believe this will be a positive
addition to the neighborhood, correct? Yes. And do you believe there'll be any negative
impacts from this project? No. Okay, that's all I have for Ms. Bastian.
Have you done any other senior housing projects? Yes. I know you're working on St. Rita's,
but do you have any others you've done
in South Philadelphia by any chance?
Not in South Philadelphia.
We did St. Francis Villa for the Archdiocese in Kensington.
We did Newman Senior Housing in Fishtown.
All right.
You haven't done anything for...
That's good.
Thank you.
I have a question.
If it's my turn, Mr. Kerr,
could you put the site plan back on the screen?
Certainly.
Hold on.
And I don't, forgive me if, I don't know if this is more for the architect or if the engineer is going to testify. I don't know if you're going to ever testify, but I'm struck that, well, first of all, I can't see 12th Street at the bottom. I'm not sure if I can, maybe you can move the diagram up a little bit.
Brian, hold on.
okay that's fine thanks so the entry there's an entry on 12th street it looks sort of like
a front door and there's all this courtyard and the patio and but there the cars um have
no way of entering from 12th street so the cars would have to go up oak lane avenue um
well i don't know if you can scroll up but past the church right and then take a right on 12th
street and then come down um i mean a right on 11th street correct i'm sorry make a right on 11th
street and then come behind the church uh sort of where parking spot number uh six is right where
yeah uh it's hard for me to describe this because i can't see no direct
ingress egress off of 12th for vehicular traffic right that it's coming in mid-block
you gotta come you have to go in off 11th mid-block off of 11th and i'm i'm wondering how
that's supposed to work with you know people who are making deliveries uh and who are not familiar
and things like that.
And certainly wouldn't you think
that plenty of people would drop off
and pick up right here on 12th Street?
Or is that okay?
Yeah, I think my,
what I would envision is that on 12th Street,
we would have a loading space
directly in front of our entry
so that if somebody inside was calling,
you know, for someone to pick them up,
a taxi or paratransit,
that they would come on 12th Street
and pick them up there.
They could come directly out there.
I picture that the UPS truck
would probably park out there
and go directly in those front doors.
The parking space.
This answer, I'm sorry to interrupt.
What is the width of that sidewalk
on 12th Street?
Well, let me ask it a different way.
Well, let me ask you in a different way. Is the sidewalk wide enough to create a lay-by?
No, it's maybe 12 plus feet wide, but I don't know.
Okay, not enough, not wide enough.
No, but I think, again, there's not going to be a ton of traffic here, as was pointed out earlier.
So I'm thinking if there's one loading space in front of this building, that would really serve it quite well.
Thank you. Okay, so you would remove a parking spot to put in a loading spot?
That would have to get approved by Streets Department. Yeah, we would have to work.
It's potential. Okay. We typically do that in a project like this at the front
entry. We typically, in every multi-family project we do, we'd get at least one loading space.
But here I think one would be adequate and appropriate. Well, one loading space the length