I believe they use it for a parking lot. Well, maybe somebody could tell us. I thought the land was bought for a parking lot. I know there's a school there, but I thought the land was bought for a parking lot, but you can --
I'm not sure of the resolution -- I'm not sure of the particular resolution that Mr. Johnson just forwarded to 80 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 you. But the location at Sixth and Duncannon, is generally the site of the Thurgood Marshall School. And although the School District may, from time to time, be authorized to enter into agreements of sale for the purchase or acquisition of land, I can assure this Council that and the public that prior to moving ahead with the construction, that we remediate any land that we purchase to standards that are set by the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection. And we have to do that not only because we're a public entity but because we're purchasing land, and the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection will -- usually we get releases from them to the extent that we have to clean up land. There is little land in this city, as an old industrial northeastern city, that you can acquire in Philadelphia for any purpose, be it to build a school, a parking lot, or anything, for that matter, which does not have some kind of environmental concerns. 81 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 Our goal, and one of the reasons that we have an environmental department -- I mean, we have people who do this on a full-time basis -- is to make sure that if we acquire property or even with respect to our own buildings, that once we have -- or before we have children in the building, that it is environmentally clean, and that we've gotten all the appropriate releases. And without having seen the particular resolution, I can almost assure this Council that the necessary environmental tests were done. And if any remediation was required, it was in fact done prior to us using the property.
Well, we like your assurances, but we really can't just accept them. We would like get a report from you that would show what specific steps were taken to remedy the environmental problems prior to it's being actually used, whether by children or adults. The environment affect everyone. We know -- we don't intend any discourtesy, sir, but we know that things slip through the cracks, and we would not like to see this slip through that crack. 82 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 And then we would be able to give Mr. Johnson the information and the assurance that all is well, if the report actually supports that.
Mr. Armbrister, I have the Sergeant-At-Arms making a copy. That's the Conrail site, Sixth and Duncannon.
I understand. And I wasn't here when the School District acquired that site, but I'm sure we spent a significant amount of dollars not only studying it but, I'm sure, remediating whatever ill effects were found there. But we will get the report to you and to Mr. Johnson to give you the assurances that you need.
If you send the report to the Chair, that would be fine.
Madame Chair, I just want to say that, you know, my position is that until we can see it, that it's a concern. Because I also have a document that -- 83 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 I don't think I have to defend myself, but I also have a document from the School Direct regarding the Franklin Learning Center, dated March 22, 1996, that says because of a policy of strict compliance with all federal and State regulations regarding asbestos and lead, public school buildings in Philadelphia are safe for students and staff. You could have a copy.
I don't have -- if you don't mind, if you could make copies and --
I'll make some copies of all of your information and return the originals.
And that statement, Madame Chair, led us, as everyone in this room, I would imagine, knows, led us to go out, with the help of Council President Street and hire an independent consultant firm, environmental consultant firm that -- I'm not going to bumble through 'em, but I can certainly make them available to Council, that showed that Franklin Learning Center wasn't safe, that showed it wasn't safe. Even the School District said very clearly 84 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 in that document that it was safe. And we found high levels of lead dust on top of lockers, on top of children's toys. We're not trying to rehash anything. I want to go forward.
But I want you to understand the reason why we're concerned about the School District and the environment. And there are schools in the District, and it can be checked through the School Direct's Environmental Services Office, that at the time of the Franklin Learning Center, were in worse shape than the Franklin Learning Center, as it relates to lead and lead in the water. And I would hope that this committee would have the power to ask the Environmental Office to forward to your attention all the schools in the District that have lead and asbestos problems, and what the remedy has been, if there's been any. And then what the plan for it is, especially in the area of lead, what the plan is for the maintenance and maintaining of any work that was done to improve the condition. 85 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 Now, at the Franklin Learning Center, when we talked about the training that the Health Department could offer through its Childhood Lead Poisoning Prevention Program, and I would hope the School District would consider using the Childhood Lead Poisoning Prevention Program as a training arm to train its custodial staff in the methods of maintaining appropriately, you know, cleanups. And if they have -- if they have activity that centers around training of maintaining an area that's been cleaned, you know, I would just like to recommend to the committee that you see a schedule of the training, when the trainings took place, and who participated in the trainings. And we could use the Franklin Learning Center as a testing ground to see if the training is being done properly. You know, I would also recommend, since there a lot of good things happening at the Franklin Learning Center, that maybe a team of people -- I certainly would like to be involved in the team -- would visit the Franklin Learning Center to see if, in fact, the conditions there that we worked so hard on, the School District, 86 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 the community, and this and Council, I'd like to see how they're being maintained, especially the conditions of the auditorium.
Madame Chair, I think the points being raised are very important points. I personally don't think that you can be too careful about the environment, because there are so many problems out there that have been neglected for such a long time. I would like to suggest, Madame Chair, that instead of adjournment that this committee recess to a specific time and date so that we can get a full report from the School District of questions raised by Mr. Johnson and have a public hearing on that on that matter.
Certainly, Councilman Cohen, I hope that between Mr. Shapiro and Mr. Armbrister, you're able to hear his concerns. I will make a copy of the other report, as soon as it's Xeroxed, available to you, dealing with that school in particular. And I'm sure you will remember that we've had a lot of problems and debates around that particular school, even in our last several 87 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 City budgets. So, certainly, I will take my colleague's suggestion that we recess while Mr. Johnson is testifying. And we will have the chief clerk give us a date, and then we will announce that before we end.
And if everything is -- and if all is well at the Franklin Learning Center, then the Franklin Learning Center certainly could be a model for what would happen throughout the School District as it relates to, you know, environmental challenges that the School District faces. Here are some of the test results that you could also include. Now, if I could just take a few more minutes and go through this School District of Philadelphia Special Situations Protocol? Is that okay, Councilwoman?
If I could take another few minutes just to go through this?
Absolutely, 88 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 take your time.
When I look at the first page, you know, I wonder how these areas -- to be fair, I just talked to Deputy Commissioner Domzalski, and he told me that these areas were kind of like -- I believe he said they were used as an example of a special situation. But, you know, history's going to say that the people who are responsible for writing this are not going to be around, you know, ten or fifteen more years. And this could be the example. And maybe John Domzalski's not sitting around to say, Well, you know, it's just an example of what we're talking about. But, you know, I'm just wondering, you know, why, you know, bacterial meningitis was picked as the example for a special situation. Certainly why polio was picked as an example of a special situation because, you know, unless there's something going on with polio that I'm not aware of, I mean, it really gets real special, if we begin to have problems with polio. You know, I know that we have major concerns about TB, and I don't even know that in 89 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 the back of this book, you know, where there are -- and I'm not a health-care professional, so we may be using other words besides tuberculosis, but, you know, how the School District defines and responds to communicable diseases, that's on 4, way in the back of the book, when I was just going through it quickly, I didn't see TB there. And we have a major concern in the community, I think, in the public health community, about TB, and its relationship to AIDS and it's relationship to drugs and its relationships to alcohol. I just think we need to pay a little bit more attention to what we're talking about when we say that this is a special situation and we're using it as an example. We called the 686-5665 number, and, you know, it's the City Hall's number. And maybe there needs to be a better number for the School District to be able to get a hold of Commissioner Domzalski than going through the same switchboard that everyone else goes through. I just think there could be a better way of contacting somebody at that level between the School District and the Health Department, besides going through a 90 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 switchboard. And that just leaves a lot open. And on the second page there, you know, this thing about who is the designee when you have a special situation, who takes over, I guess, for the nurse. I'd just like to see us be a little bit more specific about who that person is, what that person's background is, the training that's been offered that person to be able to step in. I guess when I'm talking about "better," it's Category 1, on page one, where it says no practical plan can assure that professional persons will be at the scene of accidents of this type within the critical minute or so in which definitive action is necessary. Designated adult personnel of the should -- or shall? I mean, there's a big difference there. These are educators, and I would think that I would feel very uncomfortable if we're talking about, you know, maybe somebody will be there who has the -- maybe they have the training, maybe that don't have the training. Who is the person, what's the person's background, who's the person that's been trained by, you know, what's the time frame for the 91 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 training? And I think that really needs to be clear when we talk about this kind of stuff. So, you know, I would just hope that we would look at this again and just not accept it because, you know, it's being presented without questioning it. And, you know, it's the same thing on , where we talk about the principal is the post in the school office and health (unintelligible) and is the person to be called upon to render first-aid in order of immediate availability must be the following personnel -- the school nurse. In many schools, we still don't have a nurse.
And throughout this document, they call more and more and more and more and more on the nurse. And I don't know what happens when the nurse is at a school two miles away, and we've got something going on at another school that she's responsible for, and she's got a kid over there that she's at, you know, treating. I just don't know -- you know, so the school nurse gets more pressure, or we don't have school nurses at the level we need to have them. 92 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 The school physician, whoever that is. I mean, does every school have a physician? We don't have nurses, so who is the school physician? Or other qualified people, and that's what I want to get to, is the other qualified person. And what's the training of that person. And it's the same thing on the other page, what's the training and can we see who the person is? It should be a real person. It's the end of the school year. There should be a real person in every school who is qualified that they should be able to show has been trained properly. And if it hasn't happened, it's okay, but we should -- it's not okay. But we understand. But we shouldn't be opening up school next year unless we deal with that. And that's all I want to say about this document. I think there should be some oversight committee to all of this. I think that you and the School Board President -- I mean, you and the School Superintendent -- and not his designee, but you and him should be part of some committee that's going to oversee all of this stuff that 93 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 they say is happening. You know, the School District just can't be like the federal government and regulate everything to the Clusters. For someone to sit here and say, We're going to have every cluster develop its own plan around how to respond to stuff, we've got clusters developing 22 plans. 9 And there needs to be some unified plan that the 10 Health Department or the Fire Department, that the 11 City's Fire Department are all involved in. 12 I mean, you know, when we did a 13 disaster -- simulated disaster situation out at 14 46th and Woodland a couple years ago with the 15 school, and we helped that school with the Red 16 Cross and the Fire Department, the School 17 District's fire personnel -- I think that's what 18 it was -- or the Fire Chief or the Captain 19 or something like, that we developed a plan with 20 the School District, with the Red Cross. And that 21 was it. 22 And we developed this big disaster plan. Well, the Fire Department had a fit because they weren't included in the development of that community disaster plan. So they came in, and we 94 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 developed a disaster plan -- not just for the school but for the entire community. And I think that while the School District is making a good effort to rethink what it's doing in terms of disasters. And certainly, we need to be more aware of disasters right now, and we can have a tornado in Philadelphia like they had one in Nashville, like they had one in Arkansas. That can happen, and we need to be more careful about that. And there is a disaster team of people that is chaired by one of the vice presidents of Jefferson Hospital, and so we're talking about disasters. And we're talking about the School District and 200,000 kids, or whatever it is. In the School District every day. We need to be really, really sure about what we're doing and bring all the players to the table that are involved in health and safety and disasters. So, you know, like we were talking back there, let's go to Ben Franklin tomorrow, University City tomorrow before we look to see if the building's clean, and let's have a fire drill. Really let's not have it at one of the good 95 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 schools where the kids are -- let's have it at one of the neighborhood schools where everything ain't so cool see, and let's see how the kids and the teachers respond.
So we can have all this stuff in writing. Let's see how they respond. So who knows where Johnny is at 2:15 in the afternoon, when a real fire breaks out, who's responsible for seeing John Smith or Vernard Johnson or Shaquille Johnson is present and accounted for. How does that happen in every school? That's really important, it's a massive undertaking, and there should be a lot of players at the table in this. It just can't be a few School District employees. And when you talk about inspecting school cafeterias, the bathroom and stuff like that more than two times a year, Council might want to consider giving the Health Department some more money so that they can go out and hire some more inspectors. You know, I don't know if people from the Health Department agree with me on that or not. But we've been around the Health 96 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 Department for a couple years, and they've laid off a whole bunch of inspectors, a whole bunch of people. We can't even get restaurants in the neighborhood inspected. So how we going to go, with the staff that they have and the number of people that they have to really seriously inspect and then enforce what we find with the limited staff that they have? And I'm almost done. I wanted to say that --
Let me say, while you're looking for those documents, that we have consistently told the Health Commissioner, Commissioner Richman, that we support her in all that she does. But even, for example, the money that was threatened, the $17 million that we spoke of for drug and drug-addicted programs, the Commissioner does not keep in touch with us, even when we asked during the budget process for a report on that money to try to help her. We're willing to do whatever it takes. We spoke to the Governor at a meeting when he was in town. We talked about the fact that we needed 97 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 money, that it was not committed to our City. But certainly -- and I learned that by accident from some people who were involved in drug addition programs. But if the Commissioner doesn't tell us she needs help, we can't help. And we're at her disposal, but it's very, very difficult. If she needs inspectors, she should tell us. If there's a shortage, she should tell us. Certainly, I would not presume to tell her how to do her job. She does a great job, but we want to help her if she will let us.
Well, we're meeting with the Commissioner. A group of health-care advocates and providers are meeting with the Commissioner on the 27th. That's Monday. And I certainly will tell her that. Because we're meeting around issues of behavior and wellness and physical wellness as it relates to kids and children and families, and the special effort that we're involved in in the southwest that would take in the Bartram Cluster. And a wellness program that we would wrap around 3 or 400 kids from the Bartram Cluster 98 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 this year, to make sure that as they go through this intensive reading program, that they're going to have this summer, to make sure that they come back with the physicals and the follow-up treatment that we need. So I certainly will tell her. It's a rumor on the street, Madame Chair, that the Commissioner was told to follow the Mayor's budget. I don't want to get into that, but that's what we was told. That's what's on the street in the health-care community. Because, as an example, the people from maternal and child health, Sue Lieberman, they were here to testify, and we've lost about $35 million in Healthy Start money. That's the effort to reduce infant mortality in west and southwest Philadelphia. And they asked Council to ask for Healthy Start dollars for some improvement in infant mortality. And the Health Department is now faced with the challenge of how do you take a program like Healthy Start with less dollars and go to North Philadelphia and model a Healthy Start program, or go to South Philadelphia where the 99 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 infant mortality rate is on the rise, in Ann Verna's district, and have a successful program if you don't have money. So I don't know how the Council goes back and gives her more money without her asking. But between you and I and everybody that's going to hear this in the record, they need money. And they did not come and ask for it, and everybody sat here, and we couldn't figure out why they didn't ask for. And our neighborhoods are in trouble. It's not just the School District that's got these problems. Everything around here is polluted, and not just the School District stuff. So they don't come here and ask for money so they can come out and do the education that we're trying to do, then I don't know where we're going with public health and the Public Health Department in Philadelphia. We'd like to see the School District be more proactive and not sit back and wait for -- and I'm not suggesting that they are, and I'm not suggesting that I'm all over town and know everything about what's going on in the School 100 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 District, because I don't. But I know where I'm active, and that's in the Bartram Cluster. I know that we took John Domzalski out to the Bartram Cluster along with a whole bunch of other health-care professionals, people from CBH, and we took Domzalski out there in an effort to develop a relationship with the people in the Bartram Cluster around maybe a simple program like hand-washing so that the kids learn how to wash their hands properly. Our organization had some kids trained who would go with the Health Department and work with younger kids and teachers to show them how to properly wash hands. I mean, we're talking about schools. We don't want to teach kids how to take some gook and put it on their hands and dry it off and think that's the way that you wash hands and you're a first- and second- and third-grader. We've got to teach the kids and teach 'em right, not just about reading and arithmetic, but how to protect themselves against disease and germs. And we might well as a result right, you know, with the Health Department, and the School District going in together and trying to offer 101 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 some training to kids and to teachers.
We haven't had one response from not one nurse, not one social worker, not one child psychologist who said the kids in the Bartram Cluster, some of them were looney and couldn't sit in their seats. And it was taking two or three months to get them into behavioral health care. And we had someone from CBH who says, Give me a call and we'll work with you to get those kids into care faster. Not one phone call. All you hear is people making a lot of complaints about our kids and saying the conditions that are kids are in and what they bring to them -- and we're not getting paid for this stuff 'cause we do it because we want to do it. We're an organization that tries to bring them together, like we'd like you to sit down with them. We're trying to bring them together. And for no other reason than just because that's what we do. And you get these people to come out, and then you don't get the School District to follow up on what could be a real good preventive program. 102 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 And somehow, these people who are from 21st and the Parkway need to be able to go to the Bartram Cluster or somewhere and kick butt and say that the resources are there, they're being brought to you, they're being brought to you for free. We didn't charge for this. Some people do, and now you're not even using them, but you're still talking about the kids. Do. You understand what I'm saying?
So I won't go on with that. But, you know, it's kind of discouraging when you take it to 'em and you say, Here it is. And you can't go any higher in the Health Department unless you go to the Commissioner or the Deputy Commissioner. We took the Director of District Health Center No. 3 there. We said, We're here, what can we do? We stayed there for about three hours. What can we do? Not one phone call, but a whole bunch of complaints about our kids. I guess I'll close with this and maybe I'm done. Uh. . . I guess I'm done. 103 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 But if we could look at the environmental stuff and if we could look at planning for neighborhood disasters -- and not just school disasters. And if we could get somebody to take us up on our challenge that we'll bring resources to the schools for the nurses and social workers that we'll help them get kids into care faster or fight like heck to get them into help faster, then we'd like to see the School District take us up on it. And I guess that's it, Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Mr. Johnson. We are certainly making a copy of your documents as we speak, and we will return them to you. We had hoped that we would be able adjourn this hearing today at this point.
Councilwoman, as it relates to lead-poisoning in children, and low-birth-weight children, they're now presenting 104 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 themselves to schools. The kids that we know that were born low birth weight through Healthy Start, and the kids that we know from our work with the Health Department and with Allegheny now, we know that the kids that we worked with when they were two and three years old are now going to public school. And we know that low-birth-weight children bring challenges on their own. We're working with a principal now back at 46th and Woodland just around some kids who were low birth weight and how we can help their parents do what they should be doing for their children. We know that kids are coming to school who've been lead-poisoned at 6, 7, and and 17 25 and 32 months old. They're now going to 18 school. I mean, the poison may be reduced now but 19 they could still suffer from some effects of the 20 poisoning. Because it's not showing up in the 21 lead blood test, it doesn't mean that there aren't 22 serious kind of challenges that these children are going to be faced with. For children who are lead-poisoned, there should be an environmental intervention 105 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 that's like, you know, cleaning up the environment where the kids are every day, so home and school and parks and every place else. You know, before we build another park or put any more gardens in places where we're knocking buildings, we need to go get John Domzalski or somebody to test the soil to make sure that the soil's safe so that the kids aren't carrying the stuff home and we think that we're making a nice playground and they're carrying the stuff home. So we need to have environmental interventions everywhere where we have children. Two is, we need to have medical interventions; and, three, there needs to be an educational intervention. And I just want to say this. For kids who've been lead-poisoned, we need to have an educational intervention. And that needs to happen with the parents and the School District. The doctors have to be able to share information with the school about kids who were poisoned two, three years ago and are presenting themselves to schools now so that we don't begin to look at these kids because they can't sit in their seat or 106 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 they're demonstrating some of the aggressive behaviors that we think that they need to be medicated for, you know, maybe they're still suffering -- and I'm not a professional, a medical professional, but maybe -- the information is saying maybe these children are still suffering from the effects of lead-poisoning very early on in their life. And so we've got to look harder to look at every child. I think that's part of the School District's new thing about children achieving is that no child will be left behind, that we can't leave any kid behind as it relates to their health care. And so there's got to be this coordination between doctor and school nurse, and we've got to look at what the kids have been through years before they came to school and we've got to insist that the School District begins to work with each and every kid who's been lead-poisoned. Somehow there needs to be maybe a relationship between the Health -- I point at him for everything, but maybe there needs to be a relationship between the Health Department -- 107 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368
Yeah, he is. -- And the School District to identify kids who have -- they can at least identify kids who have had 7 micrograms of lead in their body per deciliter of 8 blood. The Health Department knows who they are. 9 Maybe the Health Department needs to 10 tell Darryl Jackson or somebody who they are, 11 especially the ones who are coming to school now. 12 And maybe we need to look at that kid and see if 13 we can create an educational intervention that's 14 different than maybe what we have for him now. 15 That's what I wanted to say.
Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Let me also note the presence of Brenda Cooper-Cutts, of Horizon House; and Jean Bund, Professional Health Care Institute. And they are people with whom I work closely who do a lot in the health care and training fields for those who need it. Let me conclude by saying that we had hoped we could adjourn this committee hearing 108 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 today and wait for the information to be forthcoming. That is why we asked for that motion. However, Councilman Cohen came back again and made a motion that we still continue this hearing. So what we will then do is -- the motion stands, that we will construct and create a report for the Members of Council, but we will still continue this at his request until Thursday, May the 6th, at 9:00 a.m. At that time -- that's two weeks from now. I will take it upon myself to make sure, Mr. Armbrister, that you have the transcripts no later than sometime in the morning. And after that, if we could have -- so that will give you all the transcript minus the one today. I think you kind of know the issues except those that were raised by Mr. Johnson today. They will all be in the other transcripts. So I'll make sure have them tomorrow morning no later than tomorrow morning, at lunch. And if we can have all replies to all of the issues that were mentioned in the transcripts at our hearing on May the 6th, we can 109 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 pretty much just accept the information and go on from there. And I will then create a report for the Members of Council. Are we clear? Any questions? Mr. Armbrister.
Just one, Councilwoman, regarding the date. You said Thursday, May 6th. Is it --
Okay, yes. Thursday would have to be the 7th. Thank you for that correction. So we'll try to do it before Council starts and just do a quick hearing to receive the information.
We'll try to do it Thursday, before Council, have a short hearing and receive information and just long enough to get the information he requested. And so it seems to me that perhaps all 110 EDUCATION COMMITTEE - Resolution 970368 the information that we need, we can get by then. And then from that point, I will construct a final report to all of the Councilmembers. Thank you for the correction. All right, if all minds are well, then our hearing will be recessed. The Council Committee of Education will be recessed until Thursday, May 7th, at 9:00 a.m. Thank you all. (Adjourned at 3:30 p.m.) - - - 111 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, April 21, 1998 were reported and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION RESOLUTION NO. 970368 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, RPR