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Minutes

Committee Hearing, March 10, 2003

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsMar 10, 2003

People mentioned

Names our system found in this transcript. Automatically extracted, so it can include anyone named in the record, not only officials or parties.

1958 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, March 10, 2003 9:50 a.m. - - - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET TESTIMONY - - - Bill 030004 - Ordinance adopting the Operating Budget for FY '04 Bill 030008 - Ordinance amending Section 19-2604 of the Philadelphia Code... Bill 030010 - Ordinance amending Section 19-1301 of the Philadelphia Code - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA, Chair COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS-BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN FRANK J. DICICCO COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 (215) 567-2670 1959 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Council President Verna

This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill Nos. 030004, 030008 and 030010. The first department to be called this morning is the First Judicial District. Your Honor, thank you for your patience. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Good morning Council President. It is always a pleasure to wait in one of our courtrooms. Good morning, Council President Verna and members of Philadelphia's City Council. Our First Judicial District is pleased --

Council President Verna

Your Honor, just identify yourself for the record, please. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: My name is Frederica Massiah-Jackson. I'm president judge of the Court of Common Pleas and Chair of our administrative governing board which is comprised of the president judges and administrative judges of the three courts of Philadelphia, Common Pleas Court, Municipal Court and Traffic Court. The Courts of Philadelphia are called, are termed, by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court as 1960 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget judicial districts and in Philadelphia we are the First Judicial District and we are pleased to present the fiscal year 2004 operating budget. Two years ago in the year 2002 our judicial district was faced with the vacancy of the position of district court administrator and our administrative governing board, which I chair, created a search committee. We evaluated resumes, interviewed candidates and on October 25, 2002 we welcomed Joseph A. Cairone as our new court administrator of the First Judicial District. Mr. Cairone is seated to my left and will make a presentation to each of you. In fiscal year 2002 and again in FY '03 the City reduced our FJD appropriations and that reduction threatened to disrupt crucial court operations and projects. Mr. Cairone stepped into a challenging position. Our courts filed a mandamus action against the City in August of 2002 and that action is pending. Our new court administrator has worked with the Philadelphia courts for more than 30 years. His college degree is in accounting. His knowledge of fiscal operations, case flow management, 1961 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget facilities and personnel issues has permitted him to start working in his new leadership position with strength and competence. Mr. Cairone will make the presentation today and he is accompanied by our FJD deputy court administrator, Kevin Cross. Mr. Cross is the deputy for financial services. Together Mr. Cairone and Mr. Cross have actively worked with our attorneys and with the City's financial representatives towards a resolution of the litigation. I expect to visit with each of the City Council members to introduce you to Joseph Cairone and I brought copies of a recent article that was printed in the Legal Intelligencer to tell you a little bit about Mr. Cairone and our sergeant at arms has already put one on each councilperson's desk so you would know who Joseph Cairone is. We are very proud to have our new court administrator here today.

Mr. Cairone

Thank you, President Judge Massiah-Jackson. For the record, my name is Joseph A. Cairone. I'm the court administrator for the First Judicial District. Good morning. 1962 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Council President Verna

Good morning.

Mr. Cairone

Council President Verna and Members of City Council, thank you for the opportunity to address you this morning to support the First Judicial District's budget request. I am pleased to advise you that the court and the City are working cooperatively towards resolving certain remaining differences between our fiscal year 2004 budget submission to Council and the City's budget submission for the First Judicial District. What we are presenting here today before Council is a bare bones request reflecting substantial concessions already made by the court to the City during the course of negotiations these past three months. We are well aware of the City's current and projected fiscal problems and have been a responsible public service partner accommodating the City in many, many ways in recognition of the stark realities of the City's fiscal dilemmas. Be assured that we do not take our fiscal responsibilities lightly. The court system has absorbed enormous increased demands in terms of increased criminal 1963 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget prosecutions as a result of aggressive law enforcement strategies and increased probation and parole responsibilities due to the City's prison overcrowding problems. Family court has engaged in diligent efforts to identify child support obligees and enforce their child support obligations, not to mention meet its ever increasing juvenile justice and protective responsibilities in a manner which seeks to save our youngsters from damaged pasts in an effort to secure brighter futures. We consistently have met these increased challenges without corresponding requests for increased revenue. In fact, we are an agency which contributes substantial revenues back to the City through Traffic Court revenue, filing fee revenues and other means which you will hear about today during our presentation.

Council President Verna

Mr. Cairone, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but did you circulate your testimony to members of Council?

Mr. Cairone

Yes, we did, Madam President. These are my opening remarks. That's not part of our testimony. I apologize.

Council President Verna

That's okay. 1964 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget Thanks.

Councilman Nutter

I thought I would just like to read along, but please continue.

Mr. Cairone

Thank you. We firmly believe that the court's fiscal year 2004 budget requests before you today reflects our commitment to cooperate with the City in every way feasibly possible while continuing to serve the citizens of the City in the administration of justice. As President Judge Massiah-Jackson mentioned in her opening remarks, I was appointed to my current position of court administrator on October 25, 2002. Although I am acquainted with and have worked with some Members of Council previously, there are several members that I do not as yet know. With your concurrence, I will be contacting each of your individual offices to schedule a meeting with both President Judge Massiah-Jackson and myself in order to discuss any concerns you may have and how we can better serve our fellow Philadelphians. I look forward to working with you and thank you for your attention. I would now like to turn the agenda over to our First Judicial District 1965 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget deputy court administrator for financial services, Mr. Kevin Cross.

Mr. Cross

Good morning. I am Kevin Cross, deputy court administrator for financial services for the First Judicial District, and will summarize our written testimony that you have before you. The First Judicial District presents testimony in support of its operating budget request for the general fund and grant revenue fund. The FJD is seeking a general fund appropriation of $115 million, which is a compromise amount from the original request of $119.2 million and the $112.6 million sought by the City administration for the First Judicial District for fiscal year 2004. To achieve the budgetary target of $112.6 million, the FJD would have to achieve reductions totaling $6.2 million. The budget of $115 million proposed by the FJD includes assumption of significant costs not present in prior year's budgets. This includes the transfer of nonreimbursable domestic relation expenses from the grant revenue fund to the general fund, the hiring of additional juvenile probation officers as 1966 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget mandated by the Juvenile Court Judges Commission and various operating expenses associated with computer software licensing and maintenance fees. Included in the FJD's proposal is the Class 100 reduction of $2.5 million, DROP participation and DROP rightsizing and partial funding for providing new staff for judgeships and the assumption of programs and staff that were previously funded from other revenue sources. I will try to briefly summarize our written testimony which touches on three themes, the budget and mandamus negotiations, cost cutting and revenue enhancement initiatives and domestic violence initiatives. Lastly, our written testimony details numerous achievements in each of our respective divisions and I will briefly discuss them if time permits. The budget and mandamus negotiations have been amicable and both sides seek a long-term agreement that will eliminate future budget disputes and legal actions and both sides have made significant concessions.

Councilman Nutter

Is that in the 1967 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget testimony?

Mr. Cross

Yes, it is, Councilman. I'm kind of paraphrasing, but that would be on .

Councilman Nutter

I was looking for the word "amicable." (Laughter.)

Mr. Cross

That is in our written testimony, Councilman.

Councilman Nutter

I'm just trying to follow along.

Mr. Cairone

It is the second sentence of FY '04 budget negotiations and mandamus settlement under Section A.

Councilman Nutter

I will stipulate to that.

Mr. Cairone

Thank you, Councilman.

Mr. Cross

The FJD acknowledges the economic realities the City of Philadelphia is facing and is pursuing every possible measure to continue its ongoing efforts to reduce costs, improve efficiencies and increase revenues. 1 million in FY '03 dollars. 6 million but offsets the increase from FY '03 to FY '04. 6 million. 1 million. The FJD absorbed costs for FY '04 result from changes in federal and state guidelines for funding for child support enforcement which has adversely impacted the FJD and revenue shortfalls have forced the FJD to increase its general fund allocation for this program. Increases in juvenile probation officers are needed to continue grant funding for the specialized probation program. The FJD and the grant agency have agreed to phase in these additional officers over three years with 11 per 1969 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget year. In FY '03 the FJD allocated 800,000 to support these positions by internally reallocating funds. This funding will not provide support for these additional officers in FY '04 when the second group of are hired, but the FJD will absorb the 7 cost of these positions in FY '04 if funded at $115 8 million. 7 million or $108,336 per judge. Probation officers are a critical part of law enforcement and reducing their numbers means higher caseloads and less supervision. Court reporters are highly skilled positions responsible for keeping the court record, and positions requested and funded by the City to reduce prison overcrowding. These four groups the FJD is seeking to exclude from DROP rightsizing and their vacancies need to be filled without a reduction in funding. Cost-cutting initiatives. The FJD has identified the amount of cost reductions necessary 1970 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget to achieve various budget reductions. Making these reductions may impact the current level of service delivery. Currently the FJD is developing a plan to further reduce costs. Before discussing further reductions, our historic position levels must be noted. As shown in Appendix A of our written testimony, since 1990 total FJD positions have declined by percent. When additional positions 11 related to reducing prison overcrowding, which were 12 requested by the City and approved by City Council, 13 are removed from the equation, the reduction in work 14 force is 24 percent. In 1990 we had 2,566 employees 15 and in 2002 we had 2056 employees. 16 Options to achieve budgetary reductions 17 are being formulated and include the following: 18 Lapsing, DROP positions beyond the mandated 50 19 percent sought by the City, delays in filling 20 vacancies deemed critical, reducing or eliminating overtime and other full-time expenses, attrition and other staff reductions and reductions in Class 200, 300 and 400 operating expenses. Revenue enhancements. The FJD is reviewing the structure of its filing fees 1971 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget consistent with the long established practice of sharing FJD revenue increases from filing fees. Many of the filing fees require legislative enactment and cannot be increased unilaterally. The FJD has generated $36 million in increased fees from FY '98 from increases in civil filing fees and aggressive collection policies in Traffic Court and adult probation which directly benefit both the general fund and victims of crime. The revenues from Traffic Court are a result of a 116 percent increase in disposition before Traffic Court judges. Historically, filing fees for all government agencies have been waived by the FJD even though these fees are added to judgments entered in favor of these agencies. These fees amount to approximately $2 million per year. Under the FJD's proposed budget of $115 million this practice can continue. However, the general fund budget of less than the requested amount will force a reexamination of this policy.

Mr. Cross

While the FJD generated 36 million in increased revenues, it has accepted reduced budgets in FY '02 and FY '03 in the spirit of cooperation. This budget submission for FY '04 continues to 1972 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget demonstrate our commitment to increasing revenues where possible while reducing expenditures. Technology needs and upgrades. For ten years the FJD has not sought funding for the operating budget for technology or facilities. The expenses have been funded internally through prudent expenditures and responsible management. 6 million the practice of self-funding such expenditures will no 11 longer be possible and the district will be required to seek funding for these improvements through the capital budget. It should be noted that many of the improvements in question benefit not just the judges and employees of the court but are of mutual benefit to our criminal and juvenile justice partners such as the police, prisons, district attorney, clerk of quarter sessions, sheriff, Department of Human Services and Law Department, all of whom rely heavily in our systems in carrying out their respective missions. Domestic violence initiatives. On December 17 and 18, 2002 testimony was presented to the City Council Public Safety Committee to discuss 1973 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget how City government and the court responds to domestic violence, what are the needs for domestic violence agencies and the range of options to better coordinate services to battered victims. During the testimony an advocacy group noted the need for an 800 hotline to refer abused victims to available services such as filing for protection from abuse and referral to support advocacy agencies. While the FJD is not seeking funding to implement such a program, should it be done, the increased demand for services would overwhelm existing staff and the FJD cannot allocate additional resources to this program. However, the FJD would cooperate with the City and City Council should they seek to expand this important function. On behalf of the Philadelphia judiciary, the administrative governing board, FJD employees, and the citizens of Philadelphia for whom we appreciably work, we respectfully seek City Council's consideration and approval of our budget request of $115 million for FY '04. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. Could you explain the function of the Juvenile Court Judges Commission and its makeup? 1974 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Mr. Cross

The Juvenile Court Judges Commission is a state agency that is based in Harrisburg that provides grant funding to the Philadelphia Family Court for the specialized probation program. We currently have 31 probation officers who provide specialized probation services, which are a special, more intense level of supervision for youthful offenders.

Council President Verna

On the bottom of , top of of your testimony, you mention the FJD budget in terms of FY '03 dollars is actually $105 million, from which an additional 2.5 million in reoccurring expenses must be subtracted for a net budget of $103,146,000. Would you please explain this statement?

Mr. Cairone

Council President, if I can refer you to Table 4 of the court's submission, it may make it easier to follow our logic.

Council President Verna

Would you explain it, please?

Mr. Cairone

Sure. The court seeks $115 million budget, and, as Mr. Cross explained during his testimony, $5.6 million of that increase is directly related to the 3 percent wage increase 1975 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget and the terminal leave payments identified for employees in the DROP program initiative. If you subtract that $5.6 million, it reduces our real dollar request in relation to FY '03 budget to $109 million and change. In addition, we have also absorbed within the FY '04 budget the DROP rightsizing participation in excess of a little over $900,000, the transfer of formerly funded positions in domestic relations and the expenses associated with those positions totaling $1.9 million and the additional juvenile probation officers as mandated by JCJC. Those totals equal $3.7 million and, in essence, we are absorbing those costs within the request of the $115 million. These are expenditures that did not exist within the general fund previous to this year, reducing the budget to $105.6 million. In addition, we have experienced over the years reoccurring expenses totaling $2.5 million for such things as technology acquisitions, maintenance fees for software contracts, facility renovations and improvements and things of that nature, which has been absorbed in the past but must additionally be absorbed within this current budget, 1976 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget therefore reducing the budget in real dollars to $103 million and change.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Mr. Cairone

You're welcome.

Council President Verna

How many of your employees will be going out on the DROP program in '04?

Mr. Cross

Councilwoman, we don't have an exact number of the number that are going out. We know it is about $14 million in total employees. I can provide for you a list of the employees and the total number.

Council President Verna

I guess the earliest they would be able to go out is what, November?

Mr. Cairone

October.

Council President Verna

October?

Mr. Cross

The end of October I think.

Council President Verna

And you would have enough money in your budget to hire most of those that will be going out?

Mr. Cairone

No, that's not correct. We have agreed to participate in the City's DROP rightsizing initiative. 1977 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Council President Verna

So you would be able to hire what, 50 percent?

Mr. Cairone

Approximately that amount, but what we have asked for is to exclude certain classes such as the judicial employees, the probation, both adult and juvenile probation officers, court reporters and the additional positions that the City has requested us to take as a part of the prison population program. We can give you the exact number of employees and the dollars relate to $900,000.

Council President Verna

So if you are satisfied with that, that's fine. I'm just concerned that we get more and more cases and if you don't have the personnel to handle most of the work, I don't know what you do.

Mr. Cairone

We concur and that's why we asked for some specific exclusions, Madam President, but we are also of a reality that we want to cooperate with the City as other agencies are also doing.

Council President Verna

Fine. Judge Jackson, the police department testified in Council and indicated that they are 1978 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget spending approximately $21 million in court-related overtime. Can you tell us what steps the courts are taking along with the district attorney perhaps to try to reduce the police court overtime? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Madam President, I'm searching through here. I'm going to ask my colleagues to find it. We have a specific ability to schedule cases to avoid the overtime. , limit to court-related police overtime, and I refer you to where it says, "Both the Common Pleas and municipal courts devote substantial resources to scheduling cases in a manner that is consistent with the day shift schedules of individual officers, and this practice is known as assigning squad dates." Madam President, we also have requested from the police liaison officers in our courtrooms to coordinate the schedules of cases and those police officers. Mr. Cairone can give you additional detail if you request it.

Council President Verna

I know every year at budget time this issue comes up and I just thought that with the computer systems that we have today it should be so easy to schedule given 1979 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget officers in one courtroom with several of their cases so that they are not running all over City Hall or the Criminal Justice Center. I think there is a way of doing it so that we wouldn't have to be facing a $21 million figure in court-related overtime for police.

Mr. Cairone

Madam President, this is something that we are interested in reducing as well and we have had conversations with Police Commissioner Neal at the criminal justice coordinating commission meetings and -- I'm sorry. Sylvester Johnson. Excuse me. (Laughter.)

Council President Verna

I was going to say he hasn't been around for a while.

Mr. Cairone

I guess I have to be careful where I park now. (Laughter.)

Mr. Cairone

I'm glad I could add a touch of levity to the proceedings.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Mr. Cairone

You're welcome. But we do adhere to the squad dates, which reduces the overtime. The officers are on day 1980 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget shift and they receive regular pay during their period of reporting to the CJC during what we refer to as squad days. What we have recently requested is the assignment of liaison officers to better coordinate their activities within the Criminal Justice Center and reduce the pulling of their resources in different areas and the commissioner has responded positively and I think the results will be positive as well.

Council President Verna

Great. We look forward to that and hopefully we don't have to have this conversation next year.

Mr. Cairone

The only thing that I can add is that everyone needs to be reminded that we are not the ones who subpoena police officers to testify.

Council President Verna

I know, but there has to be a system whereby, as I said, if the courts, the district attorney and the police department work together, I'm sure that this issue can be addressed.

Mr. Cairone

And we will work toward that resolution with the police department. 1981 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Council President Verna

Great. What impact, if any, has Operation Safe Streets had upon the court system?

Mr. Cairone

I think that the initiatives have increased arrests. Operation Safe Streets in reality has reduced arrests at this point during its short period of intervention so we are hopeful that the numbers are starting to balance back to the figures where they were prior to 1996. It is too soon to say that this is a trend, but the numbers are down in the 1200 per week category as opposed to the figures that existed in '96, '97 and '98 where there were weeks where we experienced in excess of 1800 arrests per week. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Madam President, I do want to add that our criminal trial division, our judges, disposed of 19,000 criminal cases in year 2002, which is a record high for our court. So while we have the reduction created by Operation Safe Streets, we also have judges who are working harder. The staff, the clerk of quarter sessions, the sheriffs, what we call our criminal justice partners, have been working harder. There were 19,000 dispositions last year. 1982 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Council President Verna

Amazing. Wonderful. I have some other questions, but at this time I would like to recognize Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, Your Honor, Mr. Cairone and Mr. Cross.

Mr. Cross

Good morning.

Mr. Cairone

Good morning.

Councilman Nutter

Mr. Cross, in your capacity in the financial services area I just needed to better understand, when I went to what we often refer to as the big book, I was looking for the detail that normally accompanies the various governmental entities when they come at budget time and I notice that that level of detail was not a part of again what we call the big book. Can you tell me what happened?

Mr. Cross

Yes. Because we are in negotiations with the City administration for our budget figures for FY '04, we could not submit detail in support of the administration's figures. We did submit a budget request of $119 million to 1983 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget the budget bureau, but our detail did not support the 112 million that was sought by the administration.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. When -- and maybe you went over this in the testimony -- when do you think this issue will be resolved?

Mr. Cross

We have been negotiating for about three months and we have gotten closer each time and we would like to think that we will have a settlement very shortly.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. When that occurs, and since you have been in these amicable discussions, will you get that level of budget detail to us at that time?

Mr. Cross

Absolutely.

Councilman Nutter

Do you have budget detail from last year's budget or actually the present year's budget, FY '03?

Mr. Cross

For FY '03 we did file a mandamus action against the City of Philadelphia, so our budget detail did not again tie into what the City sought for the FJD, so there was a disparity. There was a difference.

Councilman Nutter

Right, but you filed 1984 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget that after the budget had been passed, didn't you?

Mr. Cross

Yes. We cannot file the mandamus until the beginning of the fiscal year.

Councilman Nutter

So do you have budget detail from FY '03 that would have been a part of the budget process from last year?

Mr. Cross

Again, all we have is what our submission was, which was about $4.5 million higher than what the City actually funded us for.

Councilman Nutter

I understand that, but it lays out the detail of how the dollars are spent and the contracts and all the like?

Mr. Cross

Yes, it does.

Councilman Nutter

Is it possible to forward a copy of that to the Chair, please?

Mr. Cross

Absolutely. I will provide to you FY '03 and FY '04.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. Obviously this is an election year in which judges will be elected. Out of the current election cycle will there be a net increase in judges in the Court of Common Pleas, or are these people who are running, both those who have been appointed by -- actually I think they were appointed 1985 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget by Governor Schweiker last year and those running this year, are they filling vacancies? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: I will answer that, Councilman. There are eleven vacancies on the ballot this year, 2003. These eleven are replacements for judges who have retired or resigned during the past two years. As you know, we have a mandatory retirement age of 70. In year 2002 three judges reached that mandatory retirement age. We also lost Judge Legrome Davis to federal court. Judge Kafrissen retired early and Lynn Hamlin retired early and in year 2001 I know there was one judge who reached age 70 and at least one or two others that left early, so these eleven are replacement spots.

Councilman Nutter

I would like to raise an issue which is mentioned in the testimony, but I'm reluctant to go into this area because I know that my colleague, Councilman Ortiz, held hearings about this particular issue, but I would like to register my concern with regard to Item D on , the domestic violence initiatives, which I'm sure the councilman is going to ask questions about, so I will defer to him about that, but I may have 1986 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget some questions after his questions. I know of your interest. Money is certainly a factor, but I still remain concerned about this particular issue and what we can do in this area. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you, Madam President. That's a very good segue from Councilman Nutter. Good morning.

Mr. Cairone

Good morning.

Councilman Ortiz

We had hearings on domestic violence, quite extensive, and several problems came up that we wanted to see addressed at that time and one of them was the layout of the intake unit, for example, where people actually have to scream through a hole and detail their problems out. There has to be a better way to assure some sort of privacy along in this problem so that they can do it in a separate area, not in the presence of everybody else. Are we doing anything on that? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Councilman, 1987 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget I know that Administrative Judge Field and Supervising Judge Fox recognized your concern from the time of the hearings. We will look into this, but, as you will recall, some of these functions are not handled directly by the court, so --

Councilman Ortiz

So who do we have to -- HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Our court will report back to you.

Councilman Ortiz

Okay, because really in these -- HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: You're talking about over the weekends and evenings?

Councilman Ortiz

In the intake unit it seems that people --

Mr. Cairone

Councilman, I just want to make sure that we follow up appropriately. There is an intake unit that occurs at normal business hours at 34 South 11th and those functions are switched to the Criminal Justice Center --

Councilman Ortiz

It is where the interviewer sits behind the glass-enclosed space and the petitioner must yell out details as they fill out the forms. 1988 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Mr. Cairone

That may be the Criminal Justice Center and we will look into both locations and report back to you then.

Councilman Ortiz

No, I think that is not at the Criminal Justice Center. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: It is?

Councilman Ortiz

No, it's not. That is at 34 South 11th. So if you can report on that and not only report that it is being done, we know it is being done, but what we would like to see is how are we going to fix it so that some privacy can be assured. The security aspect in terms of the waiting areas and hallways, is there anything in the budget that is going to be included to beef up security? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Where?

Councilman Ortiz

Where they go for the interviews during the week. I mean, you are dealing with problems in which high emotions are going on and many times people act irrationally, and if you are waiting in the hallway and your spouse comes in with a gun or whatever, you know, it is nice to know that there might be somebody in there that can take 1989 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget charge. Is there anything in terms of beefed-up security that you have? Are you envisioning anything?

Mr. Cairone

I'm not aware of anything in the current budget, but we will discuss it with Administrative Judge Field and Supervising Judge Fox and respond to you.

Councilman Ortiz

Could you do an analysis of what security needs -- HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Councilman, does Carol Tracy have specific recommendations that she has reviewed with the court?

Councilman Ortiz

I don't think Carol has any -- it is just that there is a problem in terms of it. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: And it has been brought to the attention of --

Councilman Ortiz

It was brought to the attention during the hearings. All I'm doing, in essence, is trying to establish in the record in the budget period the issues we brought out during the hearings, so that, you know -- I don't think you were present at the hearings. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: I was not. 1990 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Mr. Cairone

That's right. I was not and I was not present for Miss Tracy's report and I don't know what she said at that time.

Councilman Ortiz

Let me go down and we will see how we -- the computers. We know they need new computers and they should be equipped with the technology that would allow the judges and the personnel access to the state registry protection orders, the national registry and local criminal cases. We want to know whether these new technological and new computers are included in the technology budget.

Mr. Cross

Excuse me, Councilman. We already coordinate with the state and local police in terms of protection from abuse. There is some coordination with those agencies.

Councilman Ortiz

What we want to know is is the information available. If you are doing certain things at your desk and you type it in, is that going to show up?

Mr. Cross

It's my understanding that a messenger is delivering the protection from abuse petitions up to the state on a daily basis.

Councilman Ortiz

I'm talking about 1991 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget computers. You don't need a messenger. I'm talking about whether the staff actually has the physical capacity, the capacity to be able to look into the records of the individuals that they are supposed to be writing orders against and have that available, not that they run UPS service up to Harrisburg. We are talking about the aspect of having the technology at your fingertips so that the caseworker that is doing this, the judge, can say to her legal aid or paralegal find me this. Go into the computer and find me this information about this guy at this point.

Mr. Cairone

I'm not sure if we currently have an interface with state and other local officials, but I can assure you that as part of the court's network infrastructure project that they will have computers on their desktop.

Councilman Ortiz

You have a -- what is it called, a court improvement account?

Councilman Ortiz

What's the status of that? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: The City has taken it away from us. 1992 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Councilman Ortiz

The City? What? I didn't know that.

Mr. Cairone

We have a project currently that will replace the desktop computers.

Councilman Ortiz

Go back. The City has taken away your -- HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: That's part of our negotiations with the City.

Councilman Ortiz

How much is included? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: We don't how much this specific computer for domestic relations unit would be, but we have an overall, as Mr. Cairone said, an overall network infrastructure that we are in the process of implementing. Now, some of our court improvement funds are immersed in negotiations with the City.

Councilman Ortiz

But you usually put it on the budget and they just didn't include it this year. They took it away. So what are the negotiations that you are doing? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: That's between our counsel.

Councilman Ortiz

What do you give up? You give up a couple of judges here and a couple of 1993 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget judges there and you get --

Mr. Cairone

Many of the concessions that we made as part of the FY '04 budget will no 5 longer provide surpluses that were moved to the court improvement account in the past and as part of the settlement negotiations the City did not pass the FY '02 surplus to the court improvement account.

Councilman Ortiz

So you are at zero at this point?

Mr. Cairone

Actually we are less than zero right now given the two projects that we currently have in progress.

Councilman Ortiz

That's news. The needs additional staff to accommodate the number of litigants it serves including both clerical and decision-makers, the testimony is that a number of employees will be shifted from federally funded grant revenue in child support to the general fund. What does that mean? Does that mean more employees will be available to assist in domestic violence cases and divorce cases or less employees? What does it mean?

Mr. Cairone

It means the same number of employees will remain, but their revenue stream 1994 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget will come from the general fund as opposed to a former grant fund.

Councilman Ortiz

How does that impact --

Mr. Cairone

As part of the 115 --

Councilman Ortiz

-- your other services? What is the ripple effect of that?

Mr. Cairone

There should not be an effect in services provided. We are maintaining the same number of employees. They will just be paid from the general fund as opposed to the grant fund.

Councilman Ortiz

So the federal funds have been cut?

Mr. Cairone

That is correct.

Councilman Ortiz

But then if you are going to use general funds for these employees, what are you cutting in terms of others?

Mr. Cairone

We're not cutting. As I suggested, the $115 million will absorb those employees, but there will be no surpluses to move over to the court improvement account in the future. We have to generate $3.8 million in savings within our budget to accommodate the $115 million budget, and as a responsible agency and party and partner 1995 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget with the executive branch, we are going to try to do that without reducing services.

Councilman Ortiz

We heard testimony that there is no appropriate written consumer information produced or disseminated by the court to tell people how to file, extend or modify a protection from abuse order or to explain what kinds of relief are available for domestic violence victims. The court does not provide any written advice to pro se litigants on what to expect in terms of operations and procedures for the domestic relation proceedings. Are there any plans to correct this? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Councilman, we have a First Judicial District information center where anyone who has questions about domestic violence or any other court-related issue may walk in and receive verbal as well as written direction as to where to go to file.

Councilman Ortiz

Is this available in different languages? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Oh, yes, and, also, one of our employees is Spanish-speaking, so he's right there. As a matter of fact, 1996 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget Councilman Rizzo has borrowed our employee on occasion for translation services, but we do have that and certainly for --

Councilman Ortiz

He should hire somebody on the staff. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Well, we are pleased to be cooperative with the City Council in every way that we can.

Councilman Ortiz

Do you have a video that you have playing in the waiting rooms? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: A video of what?

Mr. Cross

Yes, I think we do. It may be a little outdated, but there is a video that is played in the waiting room while the victims are waiting.

Councilman Ortiz

Outdated?

Mr. Cross

I think it needs to be updated.

Councilman Ortiz

Are you going to do it?

Mr. Cross

We will try to, yes.

Councilman Ortiz

The DVU needs to train personnel in this or to fund counselors from 1997 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget other organizations to interview and refer litigants who are victims of domestic violence to appropriate social service agencies who currently perform this type of counseling and interviewing a few days a week. The court has identified it as a service that needs to be provided on site full time. That is the testimony that we had here. Has any attention been paid to that in the budget? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Councilman, we have no knowledge as of this moment. We would have to talk to Judge Fox and Judge Field.

Councilman Ortiz

This is one of the things that was brought up. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Again, I want to stress that I have no personal knowledge of what was testified to by Carol Tracy or any of the other organizations when you had your hearings and none of them have approached me directly.

Councilman Ortiz

This testimony came from the court folks themselves. We just wanted to know if it is reflected in the budget at all.

Mr. Cairone

It is not.

Councilman Ortiz

Not reflected in the budget? 1998 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Mr. Cairone

No, sir.

Councilman Ortiz

So we are going to continue with the volunteers and so on for the forseeable future in terms of that?

Mr. Cross

We currently have volunteers from the Law School of the University of Pennsylvania and there are volunteers from the Women Against Abuse and the Congreso de Latinos Unidos -- excuse me for my Spanish -- domestic violence program, who, my understanding, there is a full-time case interviewer that is provided by that service that is part of the unit.

Councilman Ortiz

We heard also along the same lines that it would improve both the court operation and the litigant experiences to have some City services on site such as Behavioral Health or OESS that really need to be involved in when these issues are being brought up and brought forward. Is there any plan to coordinate with agencies such as the Behavioral Health and the Homeless Office to have some services on site?

Mr. Cross

When I spoke with Judge Fox about putting this part of our testimony together, one of the things that she talked about is sort of a 1999 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget wish list of additional employees that she could use, and part of that was social service coordinators that could provide outreach services for victims so that they could have access to some of the advocacy groups.

Councilman Ortiz

We know. That's why we are asking. What we want to know is what, if anything, has been done in terms of moving this forward. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Councilman, you may recall in December when we presented our wish list, we said this will cost money.

Councilman Ortiz

Yes. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: And we are not in a position to request from City Council or the City additional funds for this specific line item, but --

Councilman Ortiz

But coordinating with activities, I would imagine that is setting up a mechanism in which conversations are held with the office of OESS and Behavioral Science in finding out how we can bring them together and to provide on-site services? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: I think we 2000 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget have to talk to Judge Fox.

Councilman Ortiz

Lastly, because my minutes are getting to be up, we heard testimony about the emergency filing site -- and that really got to me -- in the Criminal Justice Center that operates from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. on weekends. What's the budget for that site and what is the source of the funding? That seems to have its own problems separate from --

Mr. Cairone

It is a contracted service currently.

Councilman Ortiz

Excuse me?

Mr. Cairone

It's a contracted service.

Councilman Ortiz

Contracted with whom and how much is the contract for?

Mr. Cairone

I don't have that information before me, but we will provide that to you.

Councilman Ortiz

I would like that and I would like the name of the company, everything about the company. If it has any minority participation within the company, we would like to find that out, but that is something that was really brought up during the hearings and something that we 2001 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget have to look at. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.

Councilman Dicicco

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, Your Honor, gentlemen. I got here a little bit late, so I don't know if you went over much of the testimony as it relates to Philadelphia Traffic Court. The number of employees that are presently full-time employees of Traffic Court today?

Mr. Cross

I would say approximately 110.

Councilman Dicicco

So the number really hasn't increased since 1995 when I left?

Mr. Cross

No, it has not.

Councilman Dicicco

But I know the issuance of citations has dramatically increased as well as the dispositions.

Mr. Cross

Absolutely.

Councilman Dicicco

And I read in your testimony that you have been able to hold the line on any increases in overtime I guess and/or 2002 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget employees, but I kind of have to believe based on my experience that they must be pretty well strained up there. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: They are.

Mr. Cross

Yes, they are. We are still running one night a week and I think sometimes on Saturdays court activities also and we have been able to stagger some of the employees' work shifts so that we can limit their overtime.

Councilman Dicicco

So nothing has really changed, and I don't mean that in a negative way, since 1995 because I remember when we first implemented -- we didn't have a name for it yet -- the Live Stop, but when we started doing the night court and other things, we were constantly juggling employees around. With that, with some of the new enforcement measures that are coming on line, do you still think you will be able to do that with the personnel, the number of personnel that you have today? In the best case scenario I'm certain you would like to have more employees and I'm certainly an advocate of that. Having been an employee of Philadelphia Traffic Court on and off for 16 years 2003 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget and the last three or four as the court administrator, I can certainly appreciate what you are going through. Do you think we will be able to handle that going forward?

Mr. Cairone

Only time will tell actually.

Councilman Dicicco

Time will tell.

Mr. Cairone

But I know President Judge Kelly has told us that the employees are taxed and that the volume of work has increased and that they are doing everything they can to try to expedite the processing of matters in a timely manner.

Councilman Dicicco

I guess I want to compliment them for doing that. Again, when I left, it was in the early stages of the night court and some of the other programs that we had not yet been able to implement, which is now called Live Stop, so I do want to compliment the court and please let President Judge Kelly know that. I know if former President Judge Perry were here, I would be saying the same to him --

Mr. Cairone

Thank you.

Councilman Dicicco

-- because I think a lot of that credit goes to former President Judge 2004 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget Perry. On of your testimony, "A series of new initiatives designed to increase efficiency in disposing traffic citations and increased revenue are being planned." Would you briefly explain that? The issuance of electronic citations, are you referring to the police officer who is writing the ticket? Because I know, again, this is something that we talked about back in '93, '94 and '95.

Mr. Cairone

We will shortly start a pilot project where the police officer will have a Palm Pilot or something similar to a Palm Pilot where they will be able to enter the citation into and the information will be downloaded electronically and provided real time as opposed to, quote/unquote, Sneaker Net which currently exists.

Councilman Dicicco

Right. And it is kind of refreshing my memory because I know these are some of the programs and we went to Niapack and whatever it was, not Niapack.

Mr. Cairone

Mack n Mack.

Councilman Dicicco

Mackum and Packum or something like that. We saw a lot of this technology, but it really wasn't perfected. I know 2005 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget with the hand-held units the concern was in cold weather, I think they were having problems, but that is already seven or eight years ago, maybe even longer. So that's the kind of stuff we are talking about here, right?

Mr. Cairone

Yes, sir.

Councilman Dicicco

And I just want to say publicly, Mr. Cairone, I have known you 30 years already. I met you in 1972 when I first began working for the Philadelphia Traffic Court and literally sat across a desk from your mom, who is still working in Philadelphia Traffic Court. God bless her. I just want to congratulate you and wish you well. I know you will do a great job. I did have the pleasure of working with you and Mr. Cross and a number of the other folks when I was employed by the First Judicial District, so Joe DiPrimio did an excellent job and I know that you are someone that will fill his shoes rather adequately, so congratulations again.

Mr. Cairone

Thank you very much.

Councilman Dicicco

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're 2006 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, President Judge and to your team. Good morning, gentlemen. I want to register my interest as well in the domestic violence initiatives of your office and refer to some testimony on . You mentioned in the third paragraph that you enjoyed a partnership with the Law School of University of Pennsylvania, Women Against Abuse and Congreso de Latinos Unidos' Latina domestic violence program. Talk to me about that part of it and then I will have some followup questions. What does that mean specifically?

Mr. Cross

Again, I had very limited discussions with Judge Fox about this part of the testimony, but it is my understanding that volunteers from the law school and from these other agencies are providing services in the domestic violence unit and are volunteering in that area.

Councilwoman Brown

So it is strictly volunteer services that they are providing?

Mr. Cross

Yes, it is. 2007 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Councilwoman Brown

That is helpful to know because in your last paragraph you then state, and I quote, The DVU is understaffed, lacks resources, relies on volunteers and needs to increase its availability to refer clients to the services available. So the partners primarily meet your volunteer needs, correct?

Mr. Cairone

That is correct.

Councilwoman Brown

When you say "lacks resources," you mean dollars?

Mr. Cairone

That is correct.

Councilwoman Brown

Then let me underscore Councilman Ortiz' recommendation that the appropriate individuals engage in discussions with OESS and Behavioral Health because it is a natural fit for women and the few men that endure that kind of experience. Given the services that these two agencies provide, it's a natural link to better serve those victims, and when I hear the hours that the official office operates, we need to be able to serve citizens who are enduring that after the office is closed and, again, OESS is a natural fit of an agency who can pick up with that service after 2008 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget the official office responsible for this service is closed. Do you follow me?

Councilwoman Brown

So I want to put that on the record and hope that the appropriate persons within your organization open the doors, sit down with OESS and Behavioral Health and work out a tangible plan of action where they can be intimately involved with victims who come to your attention through the domestic violence unit. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Councilwoman, I do want you to understand that the three of us here have no personal knowledge of whether or not OESS and Behavioral Health are already there.

Mr. Cairone

But we will follow up and discuss that with them.

Councilwoman Brown

And you will make sure that President Verna gets that document so that she can share it with those of us who care about that issue?

Mr. Cairone

Absolutely. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Sure.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you very 2009 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget much. The second of this series of questions, there are three judges recently appointed and now sitting, correct? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Yes. There were five altogether, two in the fall and three just recently.

Councilwoman Brown

Just for my own knowledge base, understanding of the process, when that happens, are they given a courtroom immediately or do they immediately move in and start their duties? How does it work? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: The practical aspect is we hear through the grapevine that judges are going to be appointed and confirmed by the Senate and of course they are state employees, and once they are confirmed, usually within the first day or two I meet with them and give them some preliminary background information about how the court works, how our Common Pleas Court works. We also have a judicial education committee that gives them preliminary training. At the meeting that I had, for example, with the three newest appointees, Mr. Cairone and 2010 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget several other deputy court administrators met with them to give them just nuts and bolts about their assignment, you know, what the telephone number is, what the Fax number is, and where their chambers will be; and then within the first week or so they will sit in the courtroom at the bench with other judges and get an idea of the program that they have been assigned to and shortly thereafter they will hear their own cases in their own courtroom in their own chambers.

Councilwoman Brown

So that answers the question on the rotating method that you use and why you allow a new judge to rotate, so that they can essentially slowly orient themselves, if you will, into that world, correct? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Within the first week. So, for example, if a judge is going to be working in the criminal courts, that judge may sit in different courtrooms for several days or weeks -- several days; I'll put it that way, until he or she gets his own courtroom and his own list of cases. If a judge is going to be assigned to the family court division, whether it is at 1801 or 2011 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget 34 South 11th, that judge will sit with different judges, attend meetings, and get a feel for what is involved.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you for that insight. Madam President, I would like to go on record to request next year when we bring this division of the City to us that we invite those individuals who are chiefly and specifically responsible for the domestic violence initiative so that we can learn one-on-one, face-to-face in this forum what they are doing around the domestic violence program. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Councilwoman, I agree with you that this is a topic of great importance. I would prefer not to wait a whole year and certainly I'd be happy to arrange a meeting, something less formal, if that's satisfactory.

Councilwoman Brown

That would be fine with me.

Council President Verna

That would be wonderful. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Because the 2012 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget hearing environment is very formal, but certainly a roundtable discussion so that you identify your issues and the court and the people who are personally involved with it can give you the answers or give you the pluses and minuses of that.

Councilwoman Brown

I would appreciate that very much. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: I will do that. I will coordinate that.

Councilwoman Brown

Along with other colleagues who are interested in that. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Certainly. I would be happy to.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Your Honor, whatever responses that are forwarded to me, may I have 20 copies, please? Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Madam President. 2013 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget Good morning.

Mr. Cairone

Good morning, Councilman.

Mr. Cross

Good morning. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Good morning.

Councilman Clarke

I just want to ask you a quick question about the DROP program. You indicated that you would not like to participate in the DROP program at the level that the City is participating and you referenced certain categories of employees that you would like to exclude. What employees will you include?

Mr. Cairone

All others.

Councilman Clarke

What are the others?

Mr. Cairone

Anything from clerk/typists all the way through to court administrative officers. Anyone that's involved in the DROP program is included except for the specific classes that we have excluded.

Councilman Clarke

So you have clerks, clerk/typists, court administrators. What else? I'm just not familiar --

Mr. Cairone

Tipstaff, legal clerks, any position that we have within the First Judicial 2014 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget District other than those specific classes that we have identified.

Councilman Clarke

It is approximately how many categories off the top of your head?

Mr. Cairone

There is in excess of a hundred categories. We can supply those to you if you like.

Councilman Clarke

I'm just not familiar with the system.

Mr. Cairone

Councilman, I think it was Madam President that asked us previously for some information relevant to DROP rightsizing and we are going to provide the number of employees that are involved. We will also identify the titles of those employees, if that helps.

Councilman Clarke

That would be helpful. I was just wondering.

Mr. Cross

And then we will be able to identify those who we are attempting to exclude also.

Councilman Clarke

We are all being asked to suffer a little pain. I just wanted to make sure it is being distributed equally. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Oh, it is. 2015 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget (Laughter.)

Councilman Clarke

You also indicated in your testimony there was an increase in collections in the last fiscal year, 2002, by the tune of $7 million. Was that all attributable to what we believe to be the very successful amnesty program or Live Stop?

Mr. Cross

You are referring to Traffic Court?

Councilman Clarke

Yes, Traffic Court.

Mr. Cross

We are trying to get information from the amnesty program incorporated into our testimony but couldn't get it back in time, so I can't specifically answer whether or not it was the amnesty program or not. I know a lot of our increases have been the result of dispositions by our Traffic Court judges also. The dispositions of our Traffic Court judges are up by 118 percent. But a lot of it also has to do with the Live Stop program and some of the other initiatives.

Councilman Clarke

Because I think we asked that question last year. We had another hearing and we were trying to get some information on the amnesty program and how much money was 2016 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget collected. I believe at one point in time we were upwards of 20,000, between and 30,000 people had 4 participated in the program, and we can't seem to 5 get any figures on what the collections are. 6 HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Councilman, 7 it is more than just the amnesty. It is with all 8 collections in Traffic Court. The total collections 9 of Traffic Court, and not just amnesty but every 10 individual that goes in and pays tickets because 11 they acknowledge that the ticket dollars are due, is 12 $21 million and one-half goes to the City and 13 one-half to the state. But we don't have it broken 14 down just with that amnesty and I think that program 15 is over at this point. 16

Councilman Clarke

Yes, it is. I just 17 noticed in your testimony that it is a substantial 18 bump-up, and having seen those long lines on a daily 19 basis, I'm wondering if it can be attributed to that 20 in large part given what most people -- what the Live Stop office indicated was the average amount owed by those individuals. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Yes. Councilman, what we found is when the public realizes that our courts are going to enforce 2017 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget existing statutes and existing rules, we didn't create new rules or statutes, but we are enforcing the existing statutes, and they saw on TV the lines and people camped out all night to pay, people have been coming in voluntarily to clear up their records.

Councilman Clarke

Don't want their car taken.

Mr. Cross

That's right.

Councilman Clarke

One last question on that: Is there any way of us determining how many individuals actually became legal as a result of the amnesty program? I know there was a followup. You had to pay a certain amount of money and you had to contact PennDOT. And this is all part of some of the information that we are compiling for the insurance commissioner. As you know, we are determined to get some decreases in our insurance rates and the Live Stop and amnesty program was a key component in terms of us making the case that we should be able to get some reductions in our rates. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: We will talk to President Judge Kelly and the administrators and deputies in Traffic Court and perhaps during a 2018 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget certain time period we may be able to find out how many people became legal.

Councilman Clarke

Yes. It was three months.

Mr. Cairone

We will also contact PennDOT to see if they have any records that indicate an interface between our program and theirs.

Councilman Clarke

Do you have any idea how long that may take? Because we are in the midst of some debate on a couple of rate cases and it will be helpful if we are able to put that on the table in front of the hearing examiner. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: We will work with all deliberate speed, Councilman.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you. Last question. Office space. Here we go again. We had the commissioner of public property in last week and we were trying to get some sense of the distribution of office space in City Hall and at the end of the day it came down to the courts in terms of who determined how the space that had, by gentle person's agreement, been agreed upon sometime in the past, and although there is no 2019 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget official designation of space, it was my understanding from the commissioner that the court system had the ability to deny or approve any distribution of space outside the court system; i.e., Council members or any other elected officials that find themselves in City Hall and I would like to get your version of what the office space distribution is. (Laughter.)

Mr. Cairone

To my knowledge we do not control space outside of the courts area and, in fact, over the past year or two we have surrendered approximately 30,000 square feet of former court space to the City for other uses. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: And City Council.

Councilman Clarke

In City Hall? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Yes, yes.

Council President Verna

Would you define what court area means?

Mr. Cairone

It would be courtrooms.

Council President Verna

The courtroom, the anteroom?

Mr. Cairone

The courtrooms, chambers. 2020 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: It could be a storage area. It could be a closet or it could be a room as large as this, any --

Councilman Clarke

Is there any defined space? If you were to reference a document somewhere, when you dissect City Hall, would it say this belongs to the courts, this belongs to City Council? Because we can't seem to find who is responsible for -- who owns -- who is responsible for what.

Mr. Cairone

I'm not sure if the City engineers have a blueprint or master plan. We can certainly identify by room number our occupancy here in City Hall if that would help by courtroom number, by offices. We'd certainly be willing to do that if that is what you are requesting.

Councilman Clarke

Do you know how those particular spaces were defined as court space? I know this may predate you.

Mr. Cairone

I can tell you I started in 1972 and there was space already assigned to the court. Now, how that occurred, I'm not sure, but it has evolved over the years. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: And 2021 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget certainly City Hall was originally a courthouse and City Council staff, as Council President Verna and I know, were smaller in years past, so with all the courtrooms that exist in City Hall and those you can see just by looking in a room, there were also judicial chambers scattered throughout City Hall as well as storage space and whatnot, and as the needs of both sides changed, including the Mayor's office changed, we were able to finally just a few years ago build a Criminal Justice Center, which is today filled to capacity. 1801 Vine Street is filled to capacity. 34 South 11th Street I believe has just one chambers vacant, and City Hall, every single chambers is full. When Councilwoman Brown mentioned earlier about the eleven vacancies, I can tell you today if -- we have five judges who are confirmed. If the other six started today, I do not have a place to put them. So we are all in a very tight situation. We do not have six chambers available as we speak right now.

Councilman Clarke

Who in the agency is responsible for determining the space needs of judges? 2022 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Councilman, judiciary is a third branch of government and our branch of government works with the president judge and with our court administrator and with the Public Property trying to work this out.

Councilman Clarke

Who do I call?

Mr. Cairone

If there is specific information that you are requesting, call me. I'm happy to take your phone calls. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: And we will see what we can do, but we don't have a space as we speak and I have had visits as well as calls from various City Council individuals, men and women, who have said "What about this spot? What about that spot," and I'm not able to do anything because they are inhabited, if you will. I don't even have room 18 to move someone from one place to another to say we will try and accommodate you and we can move someone out of this area to somewhere else. We don't have that luxury. There were times in years past that perhaps that existed, but not today.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

And, Your 2023 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget Honor, I assume that the judges that had been housed at the Wanamaker Building are coming back to City Hall? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: They have already come back. The Wanamaker lease expired 2001, in January of 2001. Those judges are already back here in City Hall and that was to save money, save funds.

Council President Verna

What are you going to do when the new judges come on board? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: That's a topic -- I think Mr. Cairone is tired of hearing me talk about it, but that's a topic that comes up on a regular basis. We really don't know where we are going to put the new judges.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Any other questions or comments from members of the committee? Thank you very much. You have been wonderful and thank you for the use of this courtroom. I don't know what we would have done without it. The Sheriff'S Office is next. Good morning. 2024 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Mr. Green

Good morning.

Council President Verna

Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Green

I'm John Green, sheriff of the City and County of Philadelphia. Madam President and Members of City Council, good morning. The Sheriff's Office requests an allocation of $13,475,759 for fiscal year 2004. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Whoa. Based on your written testimony, I assume you are satisfied with your FY '04 budget and that it will not be necessary for you to come in at a later date with a transfer ordinance? Am I correct in assuming that?

Mr. Green

Well, Madam President, you can never say never. As you know, in law enforcement in general and in the sheriff's office specifically there are variables that we don't control; for example, incidents may occur in the courthouse. We may have an increase in the number of prisoners we transport for one reason or another, so we can't say what will happen in the future, but what I can say is that this is the budget that was 2025 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget submitted and this is the budget that we agreed to.

Council President Verna

On -15 of your detail you are requesting $35,000 for general consulting services. How were these funds used?

Mr. Green

These are for personal service contracts and the personal service contracts cover a variety of areas. Specifically for fiscal year 2004 that money will be used to satisfy requirements that resulted from a mandamus agreement that the sheriff's office and the City of Philadelphia and various attorneys agreed to. We are going to have people come in and, along with monitoring what we do, we have people who are also going to actually carry out some of the accounting work.

Council President Verna

Very well. Do you have many of your employees scheduled to go out on the DROP program in FY '04?

Mr. Green

Yes. We are going to lose approximately four people.

Council President Verna

Four?

Council President Verna

Thank you. 2026 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. I'm going to lean on you to help me with this question. We actually also posed the question to our president judge and it is around the inordinate amount of dollars, millions of dollars, spent in police overtime and Commissioner Johnson shared with us how that is in many ways related to the way police officers are scheduled to come to the courtrooms and he also shared that conversations are underway with -- the district attorney's office, Madam President?

Council President Verna

Yes, the courts, the district attorney's office and the police department.

Councilwoman Brown

-- to figure out a way on how we can operate smarter with regards to how police officers are deployed. Are you familiar with that issue? Have there been any approaches to you by the commissioner or the district attorney to collectively think through how we can spend fewer dollars in police overtime as it relates to them coming to the courtrooms? 2027 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Mr. Green

No. That wouldn't be an issue that we would be directly involved with.

Councilwoman Brown

That you would be?

Mr. Green

Would not be.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Green

Because we do security in and around the courthouse, so regardless as to when police officers would come to court, we would still be required to be there. Unless they are going to have court during the hours of, say, 8:00 p.m. and 9:00 a.m., we will not be affected at all by whatever changes are made by the district attorney's office and the police department.

Councilwoman Brown

That's helpful for me in terms of the process. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee? Thank you very much, sir.

Mr. Green

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Clerk of 2028 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget Quarter Sessions is next. Good morning.

Ms. Miller

Good morning, Council President Verna and Members of City Council. My name is Vivian T. Miller and I'm the present Clerk of Quarter Sessions. I have with me this morning Charles Williams, my first deputy --

Council President Verna

Hi, Charles.

Ms. Miller

-- Tom Christian, my budget director, Lopez Jones, my second deputy. I'm here today to request from this distinguished body approval of my fiscal 2004 budget in the amount of $4,947,696. You have the full text of my message, so I will summarize the most relevant factors or points, with your permission. This budget allocation from the administration for personnel, purchase of service, materials, supplies, equipment does not meet the requested funding needed by the Clerk of Quarter Sessions to adequately perform our legislative mandated duties. Once again I must report that the Clerk of Quarter Sessions continues to lag behind most City agencies to upgrade our functionality by a too slowly developing available automatic technology, 2029 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget which is essential if we are to be a more productive and efficient agency. However, even with more technology enhancement, inadequate staffing levels remain a constant problem for us. The Clerk of Quarter Sessions hopes to work with the administration in acquiring additional funding in fiscal 2004 to enhance our ability to be more productive and to give quality services in the most efficient manner possible. The administration is aware of our plight and I seriously believe that despite the omission of our request for increased funding in fiscal 2004 they will somehow find a way to help us in our dilemma. We have requested an additional 343,054 in Class 100 to fund eleven much needed additional positions which I discuss in full detail in the message in your possession. We also requested an additional 150,000 in Class 100 to cover the shortfall of full funding of our present position and 10,000 in Class 400 to purchase a new improved microfilm reader/printer to replace our existing one, which is more than 15 years old. The reader/printer is essential in 2030 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget expediting copies of court documents for use by the public and various state and federal agencies. We also requested a nonrecurring sum of $88,531 in our Class 100 to address the impact of a DROP program on our ability to staff courtrooms. With a dozen employees intending to leave early in fiscal 2004, eleven are court clerk positions. We must have the ability to hire and train replacements at least three months prior to separation of our employees. Our total request was for additional appropriation of $591,585. I recognize that we must continue to be resourceful as a City and be conservative in our spending. On the other hand, the Clerk of Quarter Sessions is enduring a tremendous hardship in processing revenue and criminal cases as a result of the City's crackdown on crime. I do want this Council to know that I am committed to working with this body and the administration as we move through the 21st Century. I seek your full support of my budget and goals with my commitment to you that nothing short of my best efforts will always be given to achieving the goals of our City. Your approval of this budget will keep 2031 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget the Clerk of Quarter Sessions a viable and useful department. Respectfully yours, Vivian T. Miller.

Council President Verna

Thank you. You stated in your testimony that you requested an additional $591,585 from the administration. Did they give you an explanation as to why they denied your request?

Mr. Christian

No, they didn't, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Also, you indicate in your testimony, and I will quote, there will be an impact of the DROP program in your ability to staff the courtrooms. With about a dozen employees intending to leave early in FY '04, eleven are court clerk positions. Are the court clerk positions Civil Service?

Ms. Miller

Yes, they are.

Mr. Christian

Yes, they are.

Council President Verna

Is there an existing list to draw from?

Mr. Christian

The list is handled through central personnel and we get that -- we get names off of a Clerk 3 list that they submit to us whenever we have vacancies approved.

Council President Verna

Do we know if 2032 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget there is an existing list for Clerk 3?

Mr. Christian

For Clerk 3 there is an existing list, yes.

Council President Verna

So a Clerk 3 can apply for a court clerk position?

Mr. Christian

They start out as court clerk trainee with the eventual promotion to court clerk, yes.

Council President Verna

And I assume most of these employees going out on the DROP program will go out in October?

Council President Verna

And whoever is replacing them is going to have to be trained, as you said, and you are indicating it would take approximately three months for training?

Mr. Christian

That would be our desire, yes.

Council President Verna

Why do we need two court clerks in a courtroom?

Ms. Miller

Not every courtroom; just some courtrooms. It is according to the courtroom.

Council President Verna

Why in some and not in others? 2033 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Ms. Miller

Because there's more work. The courtrooms like -- Charles will explain.

Mr. Williams

Council President, some of the courtrooms, particularly Municipal courtrooms, are high-volume rooms. In other words, they have anywhere from 35 to 60 cases per day listed in those rooms. In some of those rooms -- I think there are actually two or three rooms that actually exceed a hundred cases, and the court clerk must record some action on every one of those cases.

Council President Verna

A hundred cases are scheduled in a courtroom a day?

Mr. Williams

That's correct.

Council President Verna

What type of cases are they?

Mr. Williams

Many of those cases are in there for scheduling. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Madam President, I didn't hear everything that preceded this, but I do want you to know that our Court of Common Pleas has courtrooms where we need two Clerks of Quarter Sessions in the courtroom. We know the municipal courts have certain lists where they need two. And I can speak to the Common Pleas cases. 2034 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget These are lists -- we have a track program, for example, high-volume pleas, dispositions by both parties, the D.A. and the defense Council agree in advance. We do hundreds of cases a day and per week just getting cases, and the clerks have to fill out their paperwork. If the paperwork is delayed, an individual may remain in jail after he or she was supposed to have been discharged and then they file 10 lawsuits. We are under a federal consent decree to keep people from being in jail longer.

Council President Verna

I know the Clerk of Quarter Sessions has been saying for some time that she has been very, very shorthanded. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Yes.

Council President Verna

You did not get the amount that you were asking for last year, did you?

Council President Verna

And with the new judges coming on, I'm sure that's going to really cause you a great deal of grief if you don't have people to send into a courtroom.

Ms. Miller

That's correct. What is happening now is we are taking and -- maybe one 2035 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget clerk will have to man two to three courtrooms -- COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA? How is that possible?

Ms. Miller

-- and it is causing a lot of overtime.

Council President Verna

What is your overtime? How much is your overtime?

Ms. Miller

Tom will answer that.

Mr. Christian

Our overtime runs about 115 to $120,000 a year in terms of actual costs.

Council President Verna

For overtime?

Mr. Christian

For overtime, yes. To date this year it is about $97,000 so far so we are actually exceeding what we had estimated it to be to this point in time.

Council President Verna

What is the salary of a court clerk?

Mr. Christian

In rough terms it is about 36 and a half thousand dollars.

Council President Verna

What was the cause of the delay in your office for automation? You indicated it is now on the fast track. When will your system be up and running?

Mr. Williams

I will attempt to address 2036 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget that, Council President.

Council President Verna

Thanks, Charles.

Mr. Williams

That has been an ongoing headache and I think we are on the fast track now. Rob Dubow has been in touch with us recently on numerous occasions. He has granted full funding of the hardware and the software that we need. There was a great deal of confusion over at MOIS. They have changed people in leadership roles and it has fallen to other people who had no idea what we needed or what we wanted, so there is a gentleman there named Howard Baker. He's the chief deputy CIO. He has assigned it to programmers to actually -- we will start to meet now. In other words, it has really just been hanging out there and nothing has been done concretely until recently, but I have to say that the money that has been given to us by the City now and MOIS is in the process of purchasing the hardware and the software and they tell us over the next two or three months that the fines and costs aspects of it should be up and running.

Council President Verna

That's good. 2037 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget You were budgeted for 126 positions in FY '04 based upon your testimony. I take it you believe you need 137 in order to fulfill your mandates; is that correct?

Ms. Miller

That's correct.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Madam President. Your Honor, could you stay there? You may be needed to answer this. I just want to ask a question with reference to just generally I can get a sense of your testimony that there is an increase in volume as a result of the City's crackdown on crime, but could you explain to me in the most recent accounts that the prison population is down? How does that correlate? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Councilman, the issue of the prison population vis-a-vis the number of cases disposed is not necessarily related; that is, the prison population may be down, but that means people have made bail and they are out on the street, so we still have cases that are listed and every case that is listed -- even if a case comes to 2038 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget my courtroom, for example, and it is continued to another date, the Clerks of the Quarter Sessions have to fill out the paperwork to have the case listed at a future date, if the person is in custody, to have the person brought to City Hall or to the CJC. If the person is out on bail, they have to have the subpoenas and the witnesses and whatnot. So whether a case goes forward or does not go forward, the clerks in the courtroom have to handle a lot of paperwork, so we are certainly looking forward to automation also, yes.

Councilman Clarke

Let me make sure I understand your response. You are saying that the ability of individuals to make bail has increased or been enhanced so that's why the population is down? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: No, I'm talking about the work in the courtroom is increasing because as judges we are disposing of more cases. We have more judges sitting in more courtrooms and our lists are longer at Municipal and Common Pleas level, and so in year 2002 19,000 cases were disposed of. That means that's the number of cases where there was a plea or a verdict, but there were many more than that where the case was listed 2039 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget but perhaps continued, so those individuals still have to have paperwork.

Councilman Clarke

I understand all that. I'm just trying to get a sense of how the prison population has decreased if the volumes of arrests and prosecution has increased. I'm not understanding that.

Ms. Miller

Just as simple as that. I mean everyone that might appear in court doesn't go to jail with a lot of pleas and bargains, but the paperwork increases.

Councilman Clarke

So are we offering more pleas? HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: No. The people in the county, Councilman, many of them are unsentenced defendants. They haven't had their trials yet. The individuals who are sentenced -- and I apologize. I don't know the statistics off the top of my head. Actually, Joe Cairone would have been helpful on that, but there are many people in our county prisons up at State Road who have been arrested, have not made bail and they are sitting in an unsentenced, untried status. When someone is sentenced, if they 2040 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget receive state time, for example, they are not up at the counties. They go to Gratersford or other state custody. So the number of people in our county prison is not necessarily reflective of the number of people who have been sentenced.

Mr. Williams

One of the things about the population in the county jails --

Council President Verna

Charles, identify yourself for the record.

Mr. Williams

Charles Williams, first deputy, Clerk of Quarter Sessions. One of the things about the county population that I'm familiar with is that the district attorney's office has -- there has been some legislation passed where they can aggregate sentences. In other words, when you used to do 11-1/2 to months in the county prison and you get 19 a consecutive 11-1/2 to 23 months in the county 20 prison, you would do it in the county prison. Now 21 the law allows that to be aggregated and they are 22 sent off to state institutions. So that has been 23 done on a widespread basis. Many of our judges now because of Rule -- it's a statewide rule, but I don't know the 2041 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget number -- after a certain number of listings, the person is in custody, are required to release them on bond or some other condition. So once a case has been listed two or three times and has not reached disposition, the person is discharged to some type of nominal bail. So the judge might be able to tell you what that rule is, but those are the two factors that I'm familiar with, the fact that cases are being continued and the person is being held and not being tried in a speedy manner and they are being released, and the aggregating of sentences, sending them to state institutions, is another factor in reducing the population.

Ms. Miller

And another factor I believe, they didn't have that monitor, that home electronic monitor where they have house arrests so therefore that would also increase the population as far as being incarcerated.

Councilman Clarke

Decrease.

Ms. Miller

What did I say, increase? Decrease. HONORABLE MASSIAH-JACKSON: So there are many, many people being arrested. I think Mr. Cairone said 1200 a week in our testimony 2042 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget earlier. 1200 a week being arrested, but not all of them go right to the county. For a variety of reasons they may not be in custody.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. I see some numbers thrown out and I'm trying to understand them. That's why I'm asking these questions. Okay. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? Thank you. Charles, are you under the DROP too?

Mr. Williams

Yes, I am, Council President. Thank you.

Council President Verna

When are you going out?

Mr. Williams

October 1.

Council President Verna

Good luck to you.

Mr. Williams

Thank you.

Ms. Miller

He's one of the first ones.

Council President Verna

You've been here a long time. 2043 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget Register of Wills is next.

Mr. Donatucci

Good morning, Council President and Members of City Council.

Council President Verna

Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Donatucci

I'm Ronald R. Donatucci and I am the Register of Wills and the clerk of the Orphans Court for the County and City of Philadelphia. To my right is Jim Taggart, my administrative officer; and my first deputy, Ralph Weiner to his right; and to his right is Tony DeRose, who is my finance officer.

Council President Verna

I believe every Council member has a copy of Mr. Donatucci's testimony. Mr. Donatucci, I take it from your testimony that you are satisfied with the administration's proposed FY '04 budget for your department?

Mr. Donatucci

That's a loaded question. Under this proposed budget we are keeping our present staffing levels, but, as you are aware, Council President, from our earlier testimony, almost on a weekly basis we are being mandated more 2044 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget and more by the court system in our Orphans Court Division to provide more and more services. This is coming down from the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania mandating different programs. As an example, last year, in which you were very helpful in helping us secure our additional funding, we went on line -- it is called the banner program where we are titling on line for lawyers and the public to obtain records through our Orphans Court Division. This was mandated by the courts, which we broke down -- at that time there were personnel costs in excess of a hundred thousand dollars. You were very helpful in talking to the administration, who in turn helped us get that additional funding; Rob Dubow, who always has an open mind when we go in front of the finance department.

Council President Verna

Mr. Dubow is sitting back there saying "Really?"

Mr. Donatucci

I'm sorry. I didn't even know you were here. But let me tell you the rest of it. Part of the deal is I have to raise additional monies. There's no free lunch. But all of these programs are mandated 2045 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget and he was very helpful after you spoke to him, knowing that this is a legitimate need of our office, which was never seen in the beginning of the year, but in our continuing efforts we have been very aggressive to try and raise additional monies for the City. If you look at our present budget, we will raise approximately close to $3 million this year in revenue. We're basically self-sustaining. And there are other things that we would like to do. We are going totally on line in our computerization downstairs. Hopefully in the next two weeks our probate section will be on line.

Council President Verna

Wonderful.

Mr. Donatucci

So we are trying to do our share of what we have to do to help the City. Can I use more employees? No question about it, but we are willing to hold the line and expand our services and our requests are very modest in the sense of we are not asking other than our Class 100, which we have employees which will, I imagine, be receiving raises next year of whatever other City employees --

Council President Verna

The 3 percent? 2046 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget

Mr. Donatucci

Yes. That's part of our Class 100.

Council President Verna

How many employees do you have that will be going out on the DROP program in FY '04?

Mr. Donatucci

Seven and, unfortunately, they are seven excellent employees that we have to try and retrain other employees to take their positions.

Council President Verna

Okay. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.

Councilman Dicicco

Thank you, Madam President. I think you asked the same question that I was going to ask. I was a little bit concerned when I see that there are actually two pages of testimony. Usually I'm familiar with the Register of Wills issuing one page, one side, so I got a little bit concerned that there may be a problem this year.

Mr. Donatucci

No. Did you see the back?

Councilman Dicicco

It is two pages of it.

Mr. Donatucci

If I may do a commercial 2047 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget for the office, I believe every councilperson, all 17, know the reputation of the office.

Council President Verna

Yes, indeed. They do a wonderful job. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.

Councilman Ortiz

Could you expound on the -- because one of the things that we always look towards is our records and your office beginning and entering into the computerizing of all of that work, because I know that a lot of it is very manual at times and now, so can you expound? You said you are going on line?

Mr. Donatucci

Let me explain to you. In our probate, when you come in now, there is a form. It is either testamentary for a will or it's letters of administration. Right now that's being done manually. Hopefully -- we would have been totally computerized last week, but because of the weather and a couple of adjustments in the system, but now the probate clerks in our office now will have a screen in front of them and they will do the data entry on the computer. That form will be printed out after and this will be hard disk. It will be -- I'm sorry. It will be on the hard drive. 2048 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget It will be backed up daily and also this will give us access now, which we have been doing temporarily until this program has been installed. We go on line now with the Board of Revision of Taxes to check property values, so we are doing the best possible job under the circumstances.

Councilman Ortiz

Will a citizen be able to log into your department and get information?

Mr. Donatucci

That is our future goals and within the next month -- we have been doing surveys. We are now going to be accepting credit cards.

Councilman Ortiz

You said that seven individuals are going out in the DROP program.

Councilman Ortiz

I imagine that is a lot of experience that is leaving and what are the projections of what, if anything, we need to do to make sure that those things are taken care of? Where can we be of help in terms of that?

Mr. Donatucci

Just don't cut my budget. We are starting to address --

Councilman Ortiz

I don't think we are 2049 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget going to do that here.

Mr. Donatucci

We are starting to address --

Councilman Ortiz

I would imagine a majority of these employees will be going out in September and October; am I correct?

Mr. Taggart

October and then some months afterwards.

Mr. Donatucci

I believe one is going out in September. One is my chief deputy and my personnel officer and I'm glad to announce if I'm successful in my reelection bid, that this will be my new chief deputy, Ralph Weiner. He already has training basically, so John Furey is going to be retiring, Council President.

Council President Verna

Really? Is he on the DROP?

Council President Verna

Sorry to see him leave.

Mr. Donatucci

He's October.

Councilman Ortiz

But you are not going to replace the seven, right?

Mr. Donatucci

We have to replace the 2050 3/10/03 - Continuing '04 Operating Budget seven.

Councilman Ortiz

You are replacing the seven?

Mr. Donatucci

Oh, unequivocally.

Councilman Ortiz

Okay. Good.

Mr. Donatucci

My personnel officer, my chief deputy. They are all secretaries and administrative positions.

Councilman Ortiz

That's what I wanted to know.

Mr. Donatucci

Oh, yeah, you have to.

Councilman Ortiz

Good. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Mr. Dubow, did you hear that? He's going to have to replace the seven employees on the DROP program.

Mr. Dubow

The budget assumes that.

Council President Verna

You have to approve the replacements.

Mr. Donatucci

Could I get a copy of this testimony? (Comments by Mr. Dubow were not heard by the