COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:25 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN DANIEL SAVAGE, CHAIR COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO BILL 070149 - An ordinance amending Title 4 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code," by amending Subcode "PM" (The Philadelphia Property Maintenance Code), by requiring that any advertisement or correspondence pertaining to the rental of residential property shall include the housing inspection license number for such property... - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good morning. The Committee on Licenses and Inspections is now in session. Will the Clerk please read the bill to be heard.
An ordinance 8 amending Title 4 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction and Occupancy Code," by amending Subcode "PM" (The Philadelphia Property Maintenance Code), by requiring that any advertisement or correspondence pertaining to the rental of residential property shall include the housing inspection license number for such property, providing for penalties, and making certain technical changes, all under certain terms and conditions.
I'd like to recognize that a quorum is present. Members of the Committee joining us today are Councilwoman Krajewski, Councilman Frank Rizzo, Councilman Darrell Clarke and Councilman Juan Ramos. 3 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 We will now hear testimony on Bill No. 070149. Is there anyone here from the Administration to testify? Good morning.
Good morning. Good day, Councilman Savage and members of the Committee. I am Otis Haigler, Jr., Director of Legislative Affairs for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. Today I'm here to provide testimony on Bill No. 070149, which if enacted will amend the Property Maintenance Code to require that owners of residential rental properties include the rental license number on all advertisement and/or correspondence --
Excuse me. Can we please keep it down, please. Thank you. I appreciate that. Can you conclude? Thank you, Otis.
Today I'm here to provide testimony on Bill 070149, which if enacted will amend the Property 4 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 Maintenance Code to require that the owners of residential rental properties include the rental license number on all advertisement and/or correspondence related to the rental property. The provision to provide license information on correspondence or advertisement for certain professions is not unique in that this provision is already applicable to a host of trades or occupations that are regulated by the Department either by other provisions of The Philadelphia Code or by Department regulations. As an example, we currently require the occupational license number to be included on advertisement or correspondence related to tow truck operations and work performed by various trade contractors in the City of Philadelphia. In addition, we also require that such license be displayed on vehicles and trailers related to the business operation and within the business itself. 5 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 The Department, therefore, offers no objections to the passage of Bill 070149 and is prepared to enforce its provisions should it pass in Council and is signed into law by the Mayor. Thank you for the opportunity to provide the Department's testimony. I'd be happy to answer any questions at this time.
Thank you, Mr. Haigler, for your testimony. Are there any questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Since there are no questions from members of the Committee, is there anybody else here to testify on behalf of Bill No. 070149? Good morning. Please state your name and proceed with your testimony.
Good morning, Councilman Savage. My name is Christine Young Gertz. I'm the Government Affairs 6 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 Director for the Apartment Association of Greater Philadelphia. Thank you so much for this time to testify about this bill. Just briefly, I want to tell you who we are. AAGP is a non-profit trade organization whose members are multi-family rental owners, managers and developers. Our members' properties are typically larger apartment communities throughout the City. We represent roughly 140,000 rental homes in the five-county area. About 50,000 or so of those homes are homes to Philadelphians. Let me say at the outset we're opposing the language of this bill, but just if we could tweak it a little bit. We have always actively promoted responsible property management. Our members regularly avail themselves of numerous education programs that we routinely offer. We offer certification programs in property maintenance and fair housing and our CAM programs are put together by our national apartment 7 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 association, and they are the most highly regarded in the industry. We take these issues very seriously. We've been discussing this bill 6 with Councilwoman Krajewski's staff and I want to say I very much appreciate their time in helping us work through our concerns on this. Now, at the outset, I must emphasize we both want the same thing. We want to find real solutions to the problems that irresponsible landlords are creating in communities throughout our city. Councilwoman Krajewski, I understand, has received several hundred complaints from constituents about deteriorating quality of life in her district, in her neighborhoods. Our members' properties are in many of those same neighborhoods and we take that situation very seriously. We want to make sure these communities remain strong and desirable as places to live. But we have to be clear. I 8 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 want to be very clear on one thing: There is a big difference between the kind of landlord causing the trouble and AAGP members. For example, irresponsible rental owners are often absentee landlords who neglect their properties. Or I know you've had a great deal of problems with owners who are illegally converting single-family duplexes into as many as three rental units, all the time ignoring every health and safety code on the books and allowing their properties to fall into dangerous disrepair. In contrast, my members of AAGP know full well the only way to operate a successful rental property is to deliver a quality product. Our members maintain their properties. They play by the rules, and they do so at considerable expense and risk and investment in the City. And I want to say I know we all appreciate and I know all members of this Committee appreciate the fact that 9 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 Philadelphia depends on steady growth of the business community. We all need jobs and decent places to live. We have to address the problems we face, however, without jeopardizing that continued economic growth. And to that end, businesses, the rental housing community included, have to be allowed to operate as much as possible without overly burdensome and unworkable regulations. So if we could finely tune this to fit the particular problem that it's addressing without doing more harm than good, that's why I'm speaking about the language today. That said, at first glance, it might appear that -- again, my AAGP members are responsible property owners. At first glance, you would think this particular bill requiring license numbers on advertising and correspondence wouldn't pose problems for us because we have our license numbers. We keep up with that sort of thing. But, again, the 10 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 devil is in the details. Specifically, many of our apartment communities have numbers of buildings.
If you could think of, say, the typical garden apartment kind of set-up, perhaps a number of buildings on one site. In many cases, they all have separate license numbers. And typically one rental housing company, one member of ours, when they advertise, they do so generically, if I might say. They do so generally. They put ads in, say, for example, the Philadelphia Sunday Inquirer for a general "life at X company community is offering" what the rent would include and the amenities and such. They don't advertise specific apartment units. So what I'm getting at is, typically my members are dealing with dozens, maybe hundreds of license numbers for other properties throughout the City for various reasons. And what we're saying is, the advertising alone, to have 11 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 to list all those numbers on any one advertisement, it's a logistic nightmare, much less cost prohibitive. I think someone else is going to be testifying about the problem with the language in requiring that same kind of thing on correspondence, again, correspondence relating to the rental of properties and the logistic nightmare of listing hundreds of license numbers on one piece of correspondence. We've been working with Councilwoman Krajewski's office on amending the language of this ordinance. We want to preserve its purpose without putting unworkable obstacles in front of responsible landlords who must advertise their companies' offerings. We had a very productive meeting the other day, and I really appreciate their time. At this point, we're jointly exploring options for effective wording. " Wording to that effect I think would be a very helpful addition to any advertisement and help get to the problem that this ordinance is trying to solve. And, again, I appreciate the chance to work out that language. I also had a discussion with Councilwoman Tasco's office yesterday. I know she's not on the Committee, but I hope to continue this dialogue with Council. Now, we can't assume this ordinance, even when amended to tweak the language, it's not going to solve all the problems of irresponsible landlords, and much work by all the stakeholders, including AAGP, I think is needed. I think that we can find lasting solutions to keeping our neighborhoods strong if we all work together. I understand, Councilwoman 13 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 Krajewski, that other legislation might be introduced in the future, and I would just like to say that the expertise of my members would be invaluable to Council in crafting effective language and we would gladly participate. We're experienced, responsible property managers, and I think our input would be very helpful. And as an example, earlier I mentioned our education courses. The NAA offers specifically a course for rental owners, small rental owners, that goes over property maintenance and fair housing, et cetera. Teaching bad landlords how to be good landlords is probably a very good part of the solution. In closing, I'd like to mention that the Apartment Association wants to be viewed as a useful and reliable source of information for Council. We don't want to just show up at hearings to bellyache about the latest ordinance. We really think that we can be helpful. My landlords get it. We get 14 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 the problem and we know how to be responsible landlords, and to that end, I thank you for the time in listening to our concerns and I hope we can work together.
Thank you very much. I don't believe any member of this Council is out to hurt any responsible landlord, but something has to be done on these houses that are being rented within the neighborhoods. I ride through and I see rental signs on properties. Try to get in touch with the landlord. It's impossible. I have a few right in my own neighborhood within walking distance. We have to do something to clear up this problem that's killing the neighborhoods.
Absolutely, and AAGP wants to keep the neighborhoods strong, too, and we'd very much like to help you keep them strong. Our properties' values depend on it.
Well, 15 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 we'll be very happy to work with you on this, but in the meantime -- we will work with you, but in the meantime, I'm asking that this bill be voted out today. In the meantime, we'll work with you in the meantime.
I do appreciate that and I hope that we can find something that we can all live with, because I certainly do not want to stand in the way of any effort to keep Northeast Philadelphia neighborhoods strong and desirable or our entire city.
Fine, but it's not going to be watered down that much, I guarantee you that. Something has to be done. It's something that's an eyesore. It's bringing down the values within the neighborhood. The landlords ignore you. The tenant ignores you. So something has to be done.
Yes, and I'm not asking you to water it down. I'm asking for specific language that absolutely 16 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 gets to what the ordinance is trying to do --
-- in a very workable fashion, without putting the responsible landlords into a position to do something they really can't do.
Because you remember the landlord still owns that property and they still are responsible for that property.
Thank you for your testimony. Are there any questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Is there anybody else here today to testify? Please state your name and proceed with your testimony.
Good morning. My name is Renee Webb and I'm representing HAPCO, which is the Homeowners Association of Philadelphia. We are small "mom and pop" property owners that are rentals, that we have rentals. HAPCO recognizes the need for all landlords to have a license for each unit, and we do do that. We are responsible landlords. Most of us grew up in the City of Philadelphia. I myself grew up and was born and raised in Philadelphia. I graduated from Northeast High School, and I want to see those neighborhoods come back to the way they were when I grew up. The first facet of the bill was to add the license number to every piece of correspondence is overbroad. As an example, as a landlord checks an 18 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 apartment for a leak, he leaves a written note in the apartment to the tenant that he needs to return with a plumber. If that written note does not have that rental license number on it, he is in violation of this law. Any time notes even from an estimate from a vendor such as a painter to come in and paint the apartment and if there is no license number on that estimate, the landlord, again, is non-compliant. Every unit has a different license number and even the small "mom and pops" will not be able to remember all these license numbers. The second facet of the bill 17 requires publishing the license number in the newspaper advertisements. HAPCO members are "mom and pop," as I said, and their home addresses are on these licenses. We need to work through to get that address off of the license somehow. It becomes an unreasonable burden for these landlords, because we will then be doing invasion of privacy because the 19 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 number can then trace back to the landlords' home address. HAPCO wants to schedule a meeting to just rework the wording of the bill. This meeting will work to address the City's interests and to protect property owners' interest as well and the tenants and properties. With all due respect, the bill 11 bears no reasonable relationship to the issue the City of Philadelphia wishes to correct. I'm short and sweet.
Thank you for your testimony. I'd like to recognize that Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown has joined us. Are there any questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)
May I just say I want the City to be as great as it always 20 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 was and will continue.
Thank you. If there are no other people to testify, this concludes our public hearing on the Committee of Licenses and Inspections. We will now move into our public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Krajewski for a motion on Bill No. 070149.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill 16 070149 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation. (Duly seconded.)
This concludes our public meeting and ends 21 3/29/07 - L&I - BILL 070149 our -- the ayes have it. This concludes our public meeting and ends our Committee on Licenses and Inspections. Thank you.
For the record, the ayes have it. Bill No. 10 070149 has been voted out of Committee with a favorable recommendation. This concludes our public meeting. (Committee on Licenses and Inspections adjourned at 9:45 a.m.) - - - 22 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on March 29, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)