Good morning. My12 name is Ken Brownell, and my business13 address is 1235-37 East Passyunk Avenue.14 Our family purchased that property last15 spring. And in July, my son opened it up16 for business as the South Philly Bar &17 Grill.18 Our business plan provided for19 adequate working capital for a slow first20 year, but we could never have anticipated21 the devastating effects that the22 recession would have on our business23 operation. And, quite frankly, in these24 difficult times, we're struggling to25 60 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 survive.2 During our first ten months of3 operation, we never received any4 information from the BID organization --5 no welcome packet, no letters, no6 information about the organization, which7 might help us understand what the BID8 organization was, how much it would cost,9 and how it would help improve our10 business area.11 However, in March of this year,12 I received a tax bill from BID for $2975.13 We are struggling to survive, and this14 assessment is significant. Given the15 deepening recession and the devastating16 toll it has already taken on the local17 business community, it would seem prudent18 that City Council would make every effort19 to protect small businesses from20 discretionary and/or expiring tax21 assessment programs.22 Speaking for myself, I could23 really use the money to help keep our24 business afloat and help maintain our25 61 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 staff of employees and keep them2 gainfully employed. It is timely3 unfortunate that the BID District is up4 for renewal during this time of economic5 crisis.6 And I'm grateful that I have the7 opportunity to voice my opinion. Thank8 you.9
Thank10 you.11 Councilman DiCicco.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,13 Madam President.14 Good morning.15
Good morning.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm sorry.17 I didn't get your last name.18
Brownell,19 B-R-O-W-N-E-L-L.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Brownell.21 Thank you. Thank you for coming.22 Your restaurant, is that the one23 that sits between Pat's and Geno's?24
That's correct.25 62 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 Yes, sir.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It was -- I3 can't remember the prior name.4
Anastasi's.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah,6 Anastasi's. Thank you. And they went7 out of business.8
That's correct.9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And your10 family bought that at the auction?11
That is correct.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: At the13 auction, all right. I just wanted to14 make sure I was clear on that.15 Did you say your tax assessment16 for the BID was $2900?17
$2975.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And I19 understand that business is bad, but I20 remember when Anastasi's was there -- and21 Anastasi had a popular name, if you will,22 'cause they own a restaurant a couple23 blocks north, and they were not able to24 succeed, and I hope you do succeed.25 63 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281
Thank you.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The last3 thing we want to see is any more4 businesses fail.5 But I think there's obviously a6 communication issue here. I don't know7 your family, no one contacted me -- not8 that they needed to -- as the Council9 representative for your community. I10 just think that it's an issue that you11 may want to talk to Renée Gillinger12 about, who's the executive director.13 I think because when the change14 of ownership and the building had been15 vacant for a couple of years, there had16 been the auction, and there was a lag17 time from the time the auction was18 completed to the time you guys opened.19 So I think it kind of fell through the20 cracks.21 And Renée has really only been22 there since December. So I think after23 this hearing, you may want to talk to24 Renée, if you haven't already done so.25 64 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 And we'll work on that communication2 problem if there's still -- you know, I3 don't think you'll have that, going4 forward.5 But I would also like to point6 out that -- and I think you've heard some7 of the folks who are in favor of the8 BID -- obviously, you've been here for9 the hearing -- talk about the positives10 of this.11 I can talk to that property when12 Pat's Steaks owned that probably 40, 5013 years ago, and I believe they had an ice14 cream parlor there. I think that the15 activity there not only that's generated16 from Pat's and Geno's, but there's a lot17 more activity on Passyunk Avenue from as18 far north as Bainbridge Street now19 extending as far south as McKean.20 And a lot of it has to do with21 the BID, in my opinion. And I think22 you'll see a lot more younger faces and23 different folks who are not permanent24 residents of that community patronizing25 65 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 businesses.2 And I think -- and I could be3 wrong -- that you may, your business may4 be, the benefactor of some of that new5 increase in clientele. I have not have6 been in your place since Anastasi was7 there, so I can't speak from personal8 experience, but I have to believe that9 you are getting some of that business.10 And if you work out the11 communications issue -- as Renée said,12 they did a special night last night -- I13 think you could be part of that program.14 Your business could be part of that15 program, going forward.16
Again, you know,17 we -- during our first night -- during18 our ten months of operation, we19 anticipated that it was going to be a20 startup and that we were going to need21 extra capital to help make it work. You22 know, the recession hit us very strongly23 in maybe September or October.24 But during our initial phase of25 66 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 operation, I mean, they know the name --2 you know, the BID organization has to3 have information about us, know that the4 property was sold, and communicate with5 us.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well,7 again, I --8
Again, that9 didn't happen, other than --10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And I'm not11 trying to make excuses. I mean,12 obviously, there's a communication13 problem, and I'm recognizing that. And I14 think that we -- going forward, I think15 that you could benefit by having those16 conversations with the new executive17 director, Renée.18
Thank you,22 Madam President.23 The other issue, as I look24 through the tax numbers, is that your25 67 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 building seems to be over-assessed. I2 mean, you're paying $14,000 in3 real-estate taxes, and some other4 properties that are bigger than yours are5 a lot less.6 So I would suggest -- and our7 offices could help you file a petition8 with the Board of Revision of Taxes to9 have that looked at. I think you really10 should do that because it really is out11 of whack with the rest of the properties12 on the block.13
Thank you. I14 appreciate that.15 The other thing that I would say16 is that it's a three-story building, and17 we really only occupy the first floor.18 So we're paying based on three floors but19 the fact is that --20
So we'll be24 happy, before you leave today, to get you25 68 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 started on your tax appeal.2
I'm8 sorry. Just a minute.9 The Chair recognizes Councilman10 Kelly.11
Thank you,12 Madam Chair.13 Councilman Kenney just gave me14 the answer. I was going to ask you about15 assessments. But 2975, was that for one16 year?17
I was sent a25 69 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 bill, and I believe it's due on April2 15th or April 30th.3
Have you4 contacted anyone from the organization to5 see if they could have payments broken6 down into --7
No, we didn't. I8 did speak with Renée just the other9 night. I introduced myself and10 identified -- you know, identified our11 situation, but we have not --12
You weren't?16 So have you noticed any improvements17 because of the --18
-- for less than23 a year, no, I really can't speak to that24 issue.25 70 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 I can say that we're kind of at2 the end of the BID district. And it3 seems like the lighting and a lot of the4 activities that go on end at, uh...5 Tasker Avenue or Tasker Street so that6 the east part of East Passyunk doesn't7 seem -- because there's not as much8 business there or business activity there9 except for Geno's and Pat's in that10 little pocket at the end, there doesn't11 seem to be that much attention paid to12 that area.13 But, again, I don't have past14 experience.15
You're21 welcome.22 Thank you so much.23 Our next witness?24
Georgia A.25 71 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 Pasquarello.2 (Witness comes forward.)3
Good4 morning. Welcome. Please identify5 yourself for the record and proceed with6 your testimony.7
George Anthony8 Pasquarello, Shoe Barrel, 1812 East9 Passyunk Avenue. I've been in business10 there since 1977. And I want to thank11 the Council for hearing us today, and I12 appreciate it.13 This improvement district, which14 actually was talked about in -- starting15 in 19, um, 98, 99, had quite a few16 meetings at Alladio's, an old restaurant17 on Passyunk Avenue, and Stephanie's18 Catering on the Avenue, attended by19 Mr. Frank DiCicco and Mr. Jim Kenney.20 And also, I believe a few times21 Senator Vincent Fumo -- former Senator22 Vincent Fumo was there, promising us a23 land of Utopia, that this was going to be24 a model for Business Improvement25 72 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 Districts after ours.2 One question that amazes me is3 that when we talked about this, it was4 only going to be a 10 percent fee on our5 real-estate tax, which was, at that time,6 the highest in the City, talking about7 South Street or Manayunk or Roxborough,8 okay?9 Somehow or another, we were sent10 paperwork out that it was a 20 percent11 increase in our taxes. We feel that12 we've been real-estate-taxed out to death13 20 percent for seven years.14 Another thing in the bylaws,15 which is stated, is that they don't give16 us the right to vote on anything.17
25 73 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 Quite a few times, there was2 Wally Lucidi, who was here speaking, the3 jeweler. He was on the board. 21 "I want this voted on at your22 next meeting, dated December 3rd. 24 Nothing was done. 3 In June, in another article in4 the paper, the Review of South Philly,5 Wally Lucidi is recommending and asking6 for the same. 7 I requested at that time a few8 members of the board to let's go over9 this, we're all men here, okay? Hitting10 us for 20 percent is a lot of money,11 okay? 16 Another thing here is the17 proposal improvements for the Business18 Improvement District, which is the first19 article back in 2003. Explore trolley20 loop via Broad Street. 22 Trashcans happened during the summer, a23 few months ago, whatever. 25 75 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 Sidewalks. We sweep the --2 under the agreement with the Philadelphia3 BID that this -- that this sidewalk-4 sweeping capacity, trained staff and5 motorized equipment. Well, Citizens6 Alliance came down for a year with the7 equipment and accessory. 9 Also, Wally made a point that10 the streets were getting a little dirty11 at the time and et cetera. 17 We were supposed to get trees,18 special lighting, coordinating 15-foot --19 which is pedestrian lighting. 21 Had a meeting at Alladio's again22 and et cetera. City officials down23 there, doing an aerial view of what the24 Avenue was going to look like in the four25 76 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 blocks -- trashcans, benches and et2 cetera. It never happened. Why didn't3 it happen? Supposedly, the money was4 taken by highway -- 200,000 here, 50,0005 there. 6 At that point, being frustrated7 and whatever, we still had a street8 sweeper at that time, okay? coming down9 two, three times a week. It wasn't cut10 off immediately; it was gradually didn't11 see the guy anymore. Hey, where you12 going? Well, they transferred me to13 Bella Vista. 22 Also, what's really interesting23 here is the no-personal services or24 treatment of patients, which is Bill25 77 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 No. -- which was created October 9, 2003,2 Bill No. 030657, okay? No personal3 service, which means personal service4 treatment of patients, a lending service5 store we have there that's not supposed6 to be there, okay? Allstate Insurance,7 which is not supposed to be there. An8 accountant, which is not supposed to be9 there. 13
Okay? Now,15 the -- four? Okay, so I said "four or16 five." We have four, okay?17 And the only reason why is, when18 I spoke to the Business Improvement19 Districts of South Street, Manayunk,20 Roxborough, they put these establishments21 on the second- or third-floor level or22 side streets so it doesn't interrupt23 their retail space.24 Now, what happens with these25 78 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 establishments on a Saturday and it's the2 busiest day -- the busiest day -- of the3 week for retailers, these establishments4 are closed. So you're taking a good5 dozen spots away from retailers, retail6 sites, but they let this continually go7 on.8 Street lighting. It says9 here -- not street lighting, Christmas10 decorations or holiday decorations for11 the full length of the district, which12 runs from Passyunk and Federal to Broad13 and Snyder. Christmas lights are only14 put up for four blocks, but yet you want15 X-amount of dollars to decorate all of16 these streets you're not decorating,17 okay?18 The -- I mean, I could go on and19 on and on. And it -- it's a shame.20 And the only thing I'm saying is21 what Frank DiCicco said in his statement22 here, I believe, in the South Jersey23 Inquirer -- I'm from Bellmawr, New24 Jersey -- and it's stated here in the25 79 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 summer: "To the Rules Committee for2 gambling, we'd like to have an3 opportunity to control our destiny."4 It's right here. That's all we5 want.6
If we're not9 involved with our own destiny, we've got10 a problem --11
-- and I hope14 the Council could check it over, send an15 independent group down there --16
Thank17 you.18 (Indiscernible; parties talking19 over each other.)20
I see21 Councilman DiCicco has his light on and22 --23
I appreciate24 him --25 80 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281
Just a2 moment, please.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Relax,4 relax.5
The6 Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,8 thank you, thank you.9 Good morning. And thank you for10 being here.11
Good morning.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You covered13 a lot of territory in your comments, so14 I'm going to try to remember some of15 those that are highlighted in my mind.16 You referenced meetings with me17 and Councilman Kenney and possibly18 Senator Fumo that took place in 1997,19 '98?20
No, no, no. I21 would say about '98, '99.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: '98, '99.23
'99, yeah.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's25 81 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 prior to the BID; is that correct?2
It's prior to3 the BID. I --4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The BID --5
Yeah, I'm8 sorry.9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Here's how10 it works: I ask a question, you answer.11
No problem,12 you got it.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All right?14 We listened to you, you have to --15
I'm yours.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Who ran the17 Passyunk Avenue Businessmen's Association18 prior to the BID? Were you a member of19 that board?20
No, I wasn't a21 member of the board, but --22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Did you --23
-- there was24 Michael -- Michael Giordano was president25 82 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 of the board at that and --2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But you3 attended meetings and you were operating4 a business at that time.5
Right.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So you7 played no role in any of the decision-8 making at that time?9
We --10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You were11 not a board member?12
Well, we13 didn't leave it up -- basically up to the14 board. We had meetings every --15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No, I'm16 asking you: Were you a board member?17
I wasn't a18 board member.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You were20 not a board member.21 Were you a volunteer on any of22 the committees at the time?23
Sure. We had24 a decoration committee, event committee,25 83 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 sure.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You3 mentioned a $400,000 street improvement4 grant that you've really never seen5 anything happen as a result of that?6
Nothing7 that -- oh, the only thing we did receive8 from that was the --9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well --10
No, I'm11 saying, was the street -- you asked me if12 I received anything about it, and I'm13 telling you we received the street14 lighting, which is the --15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But in your16 testimony, you said there was no street17 lighting.18
No, no, no.19 I'm talking about the -- the lights --20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The21 pedestrian streetlights.22
We did the23 30-footers for the traffic at night to go24 on --25 84 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And that2 was all a part of the streetscape3 improvement --4
Yes.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- that I6 was able to earmark money from the7 Commerce Department for those8 improvements.9
Yeah.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So you got11 street lighting. You didn't get12 pedestrian street lighting; you got13 street lighting for the --14
Pedestrian15 street lighting, 15-footers, right.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You17 received -- trees were planted. There18 were sidewalk improvements and benches.19 Is that accurate?20
No.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No? Well,22 how did the benches get there?23
Well, you only24 got two benches for four blocks.25 85 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Are they2 benches?3
We only got4 two --5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Did you get6 street lighting?7
No. I8 wouldn't consider that. No, I wouldn't9 consider --10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, what11 do you --12
The street13 lighting was complained about for years,14 that nobody --15 (Indiscernible; parties talking16 over each other.)17
Excuse me,18 Frank, that the lights weren't working,19 they weren't working.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Now, you21 said you got nothing out of the $400,000,22 and you were a part of an organization23 that oversaw those improvements. So I24 don't follow your logic here.25 86 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281
I don't know2 what --3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You're4 condemning the BID --5
There -- there6 was no improvements to be had.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You're8 condemning the BID --9
Yeah.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- of which11 it had nothing to do with the12 improvements of 1998, 1999.13
There's no14 improvements. There was supposed to be15 improvements of everything. You're16 supposed to have an archway over the17 Passyunk Avenue indicating Passyunk18 Avenue --19
-- five22 stores, catering, to family affair.23 Okay? And that never happened, Frank.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm going25 87 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 to --2
If you're3 telling me --4 (Indiscernible; parties talking5 over each other.)6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: George,7 George, George --8
There was9 nothing here that --10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: George, let11 me ask you a question.12
There was13 lighting there that was depleted for14 years. We complained to the City.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: George --16
I know, Frank,20 I know.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No, you22 don't know 'cause I didn't ask the23 question yet.24
I know, okay.25 88 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I attended2 a meeting a few months ago at the Older3 Adults Center.4
Mm-hmm.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And you had6 some similar concerns that you've had for7 about the 15 years that I've been8 involved with Passyunk Avenue.9
Mm-hmm.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Did you11 volunteer for any of those committees as12 a result of that last meeting?13
For any of the17 meetings? (Shakes head.)18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Are you on19 any committees?20
They don't21 want to listen to me because I --22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No, no. I23 asked if you were on a committee.24
I --25 89 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Did you2 volunteer to be on any committee?3
No, I didn't4 volunteer.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All right.6 And I just want to point out one thing,7 'cause you're quoting things out of8 newspapers. In Jimmy Tayoun's paper, you9 were recently quoted as saying:10 "When they are starting to gear11 up for the dinner hour" (meaning the12 restaurants) "I am starting to close."13 Now, how do you expect to do14 business if you're closing your business15 at the peak hour of pedestrian traffic?16 And you talk about Saturday17 being the busiest day of the week; it's18 really Sunday. And are you open on19 Sundays?20
Am I open21 Sundays? No.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.23 Thank you.24
No.25 90 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 Yeah, Frank, a follow-up on2 that: Explain to me why on my block of3 1800 East Passyunk, when this Business4 Improvement District started, there were5 no empty retail stores. Now, we have6 seven. Now we have seven empty stores.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And they're8 all being renovated as we speak.9
They're13 finished, Frank.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: George --15
They're all16 finished being renovated or whatever, but17 there's no rent signs and there's no sale18 signs.19 Tell me one thing, Frank: Do20 you know Steve Debacco? He owns -- he21 owns the biggest store. Listen, the22 three-store occupancy on the Avenue next23 door to me, okay, and he's still on the24 board. And that building's been empty25 91 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 for two-and-a-half years, Frank, with no2 sale sign, with no rent sign, and this3 guy is still on the Business Improvement4 District Board.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: George --6
What -- what7 is he doing for the business on the8 Avenue?9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: George, you10 think you're at a community meeting;11 you're not.12
All13 right.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Could you15 just relax a little bit, please.16
All20 right. Thank you.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- what do22 you propose that we do with Allstate and23 the other businesses that you say don't24 fit into the BID that were preexisting25 92 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 businesses?2
They were not3 preexisting businesses.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Oh, they5 weren't? Okay.6 Thank you, George.7
I just had --14 before you -- well, I don't have a15 question for George. It's something that16 he said. And I don't know; maybe17 Miss Gillinger could be able to explain18 it.19 You mentioned something about a20 20 percent assessment and that in other21 areas it's only 10 percent, and I just22 wanted to get a --23
(Inaudible,24 off-mic.) ...to Manayunk yesterday.25 93 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 Theirs is 7 percent; a few years ago,2 they were still at 7.3 Spoke to South Street:4 10 percent up to a few years ago,5 10 percent also. They're at that steady6 level right now.7
I don't really13 know. I've just gotten a few. I mean, I14 have things written down here that are a15 little sketchy that I can go over.16 But the average between --17
Yeah, I know18 there's one in Germantown also, and19 there's one in --20
Oh, yeah.21 There's about, I would say, 15 to 1722 business districts as it stands now.23
Ours is --25 94 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281
And most of2 them are 10 percent or lower? Most of3 them are --4
Most of them5 are between 7 and 10 percent, okay? And6 10 percent is the highest at that point.7 Ours right now exceeded double that8 amount. I don't know. We've asked9 questions, never got anything.10 Also, I was very (indiscernible)11 is, like, we're supposed to receive a12 financial statement at the end of every13 year. No one has ever received it. You14 could ask any property owner here; they15 never received any financial statement.16 And it also states in the bylaw17 that Council is supposed to receive a18 financial statement also. I don't know19 if you guys ever received any. Does20 anybody review the --21 I'm not knocking you, Council,22 don't get me wrong, but how can you write23 up something and say "Go get 'em, guys,"24 and if somebody doesn't pay their --25 95 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 their BID tax, you guys put a lien on2 their property.3 I'm in the shoe business. I4 don't pay for a case of shoes until the5 case of shoes come.6 I'm sorry to interrupt you, but7 --8
Maybe13 Mrs. Gillinger could be able to explain14 that, why it's 20 percent.15
Before she20 gets up here, I just have one question.21
My BID25 96 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 assetment [sic]?2
So it really16 isn't costing you anything then, is it?17
So then it24 hasn't cost you anything.25 97 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281
It's not the14 money issue, Jim. Seriously, it's not15 the money issue.16 It's that when a group of people17 come down here and they start buying18 property in '99, 2000, 2001 and tell you19 this is going to be a Utopia, okay?20 (Indiscernible; parties talking21 over each other.)22
I don't25 98 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 think I ever used the word "Utopia." I2 don't think that's --3
They said that4 this was going to be a model for every5 Business Improvement District hereafter.6
But you got to9 bang everybody 20 percent of their10 real-estate tax --11
It's not the25 99 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 point. It's not going to happen --2 (Indiscernible; parties talking3 over each other.)4
Nah. It --7 it -- listen, it's -- not when you have8 it -- the only thing you've done in these9 bylaw that you did do is bang everybody10 20 percent of their real-estate taxes.11
Thank25 100 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 you.2
Well, I just7 wanted to know what the 10 percent is. I8 just wanted to get an idea.9 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:10 Ms. Gillinger, would you please approach11 the witness table.12 (Ms. Gillinger returns to witness13 table.)14
I just don't15 understand it, why -- why it's 20 percent16 for this...17
Yeah. When I18 first started the job, I also said, you19 know, 20 percent. I had heard that South20 Street was 7 percent from speaking to the21 merchants.22 So I went and looked on the BRT23 to find out, what does 7 percent mean to24 South Street? and what does 20 percent25 101 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 mean to the BID?2 So I looked up a few properties.3 Also, I called Manayunk. Manayunk4 charges a little over 9 percent, but they5 actually would like to increase their6 rate.7 For a similar-size property,8 square footage, a property in Manayunk9 assessed at 9 percent would pay $370 in10 our business district.11
Because our13 property taxes are so much lower, it14 would be $317.15 On South Street, a 7 percent tax16 on a similar property on the 700 block of17 South Street, where I've had two offices18 in the last few years and have seen no19 street-cleaning, no services, no20 lighting -- and I know they just put some21 stuff in. But that would be $500 for the22 exact same-size property.23 So while the percentage is lower24 elsewhere and it is higher where we are,25 102 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 the actual dollar-amount that they pay is2 lower.3
It's based on6 the property tax value, absolutely.7 The numbers come from the BRT.8 And 20 percent is still less than9 9 percent in Manayunk or 7 percent on10 South Street or 6 percent in Center City.11 So it's -- that's -- that's, I12 think, the real -- the real number to13 look at.14
In another15 area that George mentioned, do you submit16 an audit to the City about expenses?17
I -- I -- I'm18 audited by an accountant every year, and19 we actually just completed our up-to-200820 audit. Yeah, I mean, it's available for21 anybody that'd like to see it.22 I have -- I'm audited through23 every year.24
Do you submit25 103 4/8/09 - RULES COMMITTEE - BILLS 080901, 0901281 it to the City, though?2
I have not. I'm3 sorry. I've only been there since4 December, and I didn't know if I was5 supposed to. But they are welcome to it6 if they would like it, yeah. I have7 copies of everything.8