COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, April 14, 2004, 10:35 a.m. BILL 040455 - An Ordinance adopting the Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 2005. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILMAN JUAN F. RAMOS COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN FRANK DI CICCO COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE L. BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILWOMAN JOHN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 P R O C E E D I N G S - - -
Good morning, everyone. I regret the delay of the Committee. This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill 9 No. 040255. Our first witness is representatives of the School District. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Fine. Councilman O'Neill, did you want to be recognized?
Yes. I was just going to ask since yesterday afternoon if there was any more definitive information on some of the key issues we discussed yesterday. I also had a question that I found intriguing. Very positive, I think, but intriguing. I had a constituent call me, telling 3 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 me that his daughter could not get seated for the SATs, there was no room. And no one had ever heard of this. When I called over to the School District, I was told that the School District -- and I didn't get how long it's been going on, but the School District has been paying for the SAT exam for public school students. Now, I have no problem with that. In fact, apparently it spiked the attendance at the SAT exam so much that there isn't room 13 for everybody. Now, to me, there are other strategies, and some of them apparently are being deployed, to try to increase numbers. They seem to be very effective, but I just want to mention that, maybe get some comment on it later. But primarily we had some discrepancies yesterday between information that was given to us, information that Councilman Ramos had gotten, and I thought maybe we should start out just with a follow-up on that.
That 4 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 would be great. Are you prepared to do that this morning?
Yes, Madam President. I believe in one instance we were asked for some updated overall enrollment figures, so I'd like to provide those as a starting point. And these numbers are provided by the School District and as of November of '03. I believe what I reported yesterday was what was from the Pennsylvania Department of Education as of May of '03. So these are now several months later into the next school year. Total enrollment being 214,350 --
I'm sorry. You're going to have to speak into the microphone.
I'm sorry. Total enrollment as of that date being 214,350; the total number of high school students being approximately 60,000; the total number of seniors being 12,508. Again, including, as 5 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 all these numbers do, both Philadelphia School District schools as well as charter schools. And, again, the graduation rate -- or, I'm sorry; the number of graduates from the class of '03, which I did report yesterday, the same number, 9,507.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Kahn, let me make sure I'm understanding. The numbers are as of November '03, but when you gave us the number of graduates, I'm going to assume that that must have been from June of '03?
If you could just -- and I want to introduce him. Roger Jackson, who is representing the School District, who is the Director of College and Career Awareness at the School District.
Well, perhaps, Mr. Jackson, if you have the information, you could provide it to the Councilman as well as us. 6 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255
Yes. Councilman, your question is accurate. The graduation rate was for last year's graduation class. The actual graduation numbers, obviously until we complete this school year and summer school, we would not be able to provide the number of graduates for the class of '04 and the enrollment number --
And the enrollment numbers that Ms. Kahn just stated were from November of this school year, so November of '03, which is the present school year.
All right. And that graduation figure for June '03, was that the 9,507?
I oversee the Office of College and Career Awareness, which includes, but is not limited to, oversight of our Federal and State Gear-up Programs, as well as our college preparation and awareness activities, and also career awareness and development activities.
And is there someone at every high school that's responsible for college and career awareness?
Outside of the general responsibilities of guidance counselors, there's not an additional designated person, no. 22
Well, how many guidance counselors are there at every high school?
It varies based 8 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 on enrollment. Every high school has at least one, and pending the enrollment level, upwards to -- I believe four is the maximum we have at any one high school.
Again, it varies from school, but it ranges anywhere from one to 500 to one to 750.
Is a part of that person's job specifically tied to college and career awareness?
Part of their job, as it has historically been, is tied to the college application and awareness process, correct.
In addition to all their other responsibilities. 9 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255
And is there any one person who is specifically responsible for either juniors or seniors tied into college and career awareness issues?
Again, that would be the guidance counselors, with support and information provided by our office.
Provide support to the schools in areas of college awareness. The Councilman had mentioned the SAT program. A large amount of work goes into the implementation of that. And just a further point of clarification, the District is providing support for our junior class this year to take the May SAT exam. Additionally, we provided support for our sophomore class to take the PSAT exam last October. We additionally provide support for coordinating college visitations, both off site to colleges and on site at the schools.
Of the 10 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 9,507 graduating seniors in June of 2003, how many of them went to college?
We don't have exact figures for that. The national average is at about 30 percent. We are in the process of contracting with an organization called the National Student Clearing House to get us exact and accurate data for our college enrollment rates for our graduating class.
Well, Mr. Jackson, I appreciate the statistics based on the national norms or averages, but that doesn't do us a whole lot of good here in Philadelphia. Why would we not know how many students went to college last year?
Historically that data was gathered anecdotally from reports from guidance counselors, and generally what the guidance counselors were most able to report were either application figures or figures based on what students indicated their next step would be. It would be -- there was no -- 11 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255
Is it the students who tell the District or has the District asked every graduating senior what they're doing or what their plans are?
Through the guidance counselors, the District was inquiring of the graduating class. And even when a --
The office was created at that time, during this past summer.
So you're 12 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 telling me based on the information you have, and you've been on the job less than a year, that the School District of Philadelphia had no consistent data-gathering mechanism, no 6 tracking mechanism to know with some high degree of accuracy what the graduating seniors were doing in terms of --
That is a contract with the National Student Clearing House, which is an organization that works with colleges and universities to gather enrollment data of their student population, which they then filter through and provide reports to individual districts as to where their students actually end up enrolling and matriculating.
Well, is there something that prevents you from 13 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 gathering that information in June of the year that the student is graduating? I mean, don't students usually find out -- it's kind of ancient for me, but don't you usually find out somewhere in the February, March, April time period or so whether you got accepted and have to send something back to the school to say, yes, I'm coming; no, I'm not?
That does happen at roughly the timetable that you indicated. However, a number of things can occur between June when a student would report that to a counselor and September when they actually enroll in the university.
Well, I understand that, but you'd at least have some sense of what was going on. I understand that young people, parents, everybody can make all kinds of decisions over the course of the summer, but it's probably not enormous.
Again, previously it was collected anecdotally. The system that we're now putting in place would give us accurate and precise enrollment numbers. 14 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255
Okay. My last question is, so are you involved in the Last Dollar Scholar Program?
Our office handles the application and information process from the School District side of things.
And for the 12,508 present seniors, give or take a few who have moved or dropped out or whatever else they might be doing, do you have any projection at the moment, given that it's April, how many people are going to graduate this year?
Projection based on past history would project somewhere between 9,500 to 10,500.
Again, the only thing that we could go on is the national 15 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 average or anecdotal data from previous.
So that was 3,000. What happens to the other 7,000 students?
Either I would assume entering the work force or other post secondary training programs.
And how many do you believe are going to go to any of the colleges that are eligible to 12 participate in this program? 13
We believe that 14 that will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 2,000 to 2,500. 16
And so even 17 if they all received the maximum grant, it 18 would not cover the total $10 million that's 19 proposed to be available, correct?
The arrangement as it stands or as it's proposed is that the 16 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 School District has an obligation for a certain portion and that obligation would be met. The remaining money would be reallocated for future years.
This will be my last question. Is it my understanding from the paper this morning that the CEO of the School District, Mr. Vallas, has expressed an opinion that the program should be open to all students?
The opinion of Mr. Vallas has been that he was not opposed to parochial school students being included in the program, but that the District would not be in a position to provide financial support for that inclusion.
Well, that's a best-of-both-worlds kind of position. I mean, what does that mean? It's all right as long as somebody else pays for it?
If that's how you would choose to interpret it. Basically that it's not an opposition to other students being included, just that the identified dollars on 17 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 the School District side would not be able to support, financially support, private and parochial school students.
You don't have to try to answer this now, but I'd like you to forward to the Chair a listing and the number of students served and the cost of any services that the School District provides to non-public school students.
The School District does provide some services to non-public school students; is that correct?
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman 18 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 O'Neill.
Yes. Mr. Jackson, the testimony yesterday, as I remember it, was that the School District isn't putting any of its own money into this program. And I'm just following up on the Vallas statement. $3 million coming from the Federal Government, proposed 4.2 million from the City and the other 3 million or so is going to be raised but not School District funds. Could you clarify that?
Correct. The identified funds for the School District is via a Federal grant, a Federal Gear-Up grant, that is awarded to the School District. Additionally, the School District is engaged in additional fund-raising for the purposes of scholarships for our students. And at this present time, we do not project that the full $10 million will be needed to fund the program for this first year, but certainly if we are successful in our reform efforts within our high schools and in increasing our college-going rates, that we 19 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 would begin to approach that amount in future years.
How much do you estimate the program will cost in the first year in its current form?
In its current form, we're projecting that the total cost would be somewhere between 6 to 7 million.
So you could run this program in its current form without the City money?
Based on our projections, that was not how our projections and our earmarking of funds for this year was calculated.
Based on the budget for this year, the 4.2 million for the City wouldn't be needed, correct? Just do the simple math.
Correct from the simple math standpoint. Incorrect from a 20 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 previously at least verbalized arrangement of a 60/40 cost-sharing method for the scholarship.
But if the School District has enough money within its own fund-raising and the Federal grant to do it, it would seem to me that Mr. Vallas would be perfectly satisfied if the City used its money to cover all high school students whose parents are taxpayers; is that correct?
That would not be correct, as we have earmarked monies from our Federal Gear-Up budget based on projections of the first year.
Are the Federal funds discretionary? Can you use it for something else?
Within the Federal Gear-Up Program, there is a provision for use of funds for scholarship purposes.
So you 21 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 have to use the million for scholarships. 3 The other 3 million is also a School District commitment, and then the City money comes in after that. So what I think is coming across loud and clear is that Mr. Vallas, if the City would take the position -- and I'm assuming it would be this City Council that would involve itself in this decision -- would only give the 4.2 million if it were non-discriminatory, he wouldn't have a problem with that?
Yes. I believe the School District entered into exploring the possibility of the program with the understanding that the cost for implementing the scholarship, whatever that cost ended up being for a particular year, would be shared in a 60/40 arrangement with the City.
Why would they need the City money if they have enough 22 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 themselves, the School District, between the Federal money and their own?
Based on the projections for this year, the District would not have enough money completely on their own for funding of it. The 6 million/4 million amount that has been discussed was based on a projected level of participation that we do hope to achieve at some point, but the calculations and projections that were done initially are based on a 60/40 cost-sharing arrangement, and we have projected that we will not be at the full 10 million, so our projection and our identification of funds is not based on the full 6 million for year one.
What would happen if the City withheld its 4.2 million because City Council would not pass it in its current discriminatory form? What would be the result of that?
We would probably be in a situation where we would have to deny scholarship opportunities to students.
Okay. And 23 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 would that be your choice rather than to work the City's 4.2 million into a non-discriminatory plan?
You said that without the City money, you projected that the scholarships would not be offered, so that that $6 million or so would just be sitting -- it would be staying on the table over at the School District. I think I understand that answer very well. However, if the requirement was -- we weren't withholding the money, but if the requirement was that if the 4.2 million would only be forthcoming from the City if the program were non-discriminatory, which Mr. Vallas sounded very happy with this morning in the Inquirer, would there then be a scholarship program?
Again, the School District has not moved forward under the premise that the full 6 million would be needed for the first year, nor would the full 24 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 million be needed for the first year from the City. The School District has moved forward with the premise that we would operate the scholarship the first year and subsequent years on the agreement of a 60/40 cost-sharing arrangement, and based on initial projections of participation, we have identified 3 million from a Federal grant program to be sufficient for our portion of what we understood would be the first-year cost of the program.
So that's it for you, is the Federal grant. How much of the City grant of 4.2 do you project you'll need under the current form of the program?
Under the current form, we would project somewhere between to million.
Okay. So if we gave you 4.2, what happens to the rest of it, of the 4.2?
Under the present projections, we would not be in a situation where we would need to use the full 4.2 for 25 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 the initial year.
Well, we got a lot of money, the City, so we can hand out money pretty easily that's not going to be used in the present year.
Councilman, I don't think Mr. Jackson answered your question.
If we gave $4.2 million to the School District, as is in the Mayor's budget, but it has a string attached to it that it only be used if the program expands to include all high school graduates of City taxpayers, primarily the parochial schools, but I'm sure there's others in smaller independent schools, what happens to the scholarship program? I mean, somebody had to be talking about this. This has been going on, this conversation, for at least a month in City Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 Council, starting a year ago almost when Councilwoman Reynolds Brown asked us to sign on to a letter supporting it. Many of us signed with a verbal understanding that we could only support this if it was expanded. It was a matter of keeping the program alive supporting a letter, but many of us made it loud and clear to the Councilwoman and have said so in the past. Councilman Ramos has had meetings months ago on this subject. So the School District is aware that there is a strong sentiment in City Council that this not be a discriminatory program. What is the position of the School District that if the 4.2 million only gets sent to the School District for this program if it's non-discriminatory? What is the School District's position? It sounds like Mr. Vallas's position was not quite as clear as the Inquirer reported it today.
Initially in the initial design, the City portion of the money was never designed to be given to the School District for the purpose of the Sun Maiden 27 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 scholarships, but rather that upon completion of the application process, a bill, so to speak, would be generated as to the cost for operating the program. The School District would then give their portion of their bill, so to speak, to a third agency for the administration and actual check-writing of the process and that the City would give their portion of the bill to that same agency.
I'd still like an answer to the question. The process is interesting, and I'm sure we'll get more into how that works, the mechanics of it, but will there be a scholarship program? You said there won't be one without the 4.2 million. That's your opinion. If the 4.2 million is forthcoming but only with the restriction that the program be expanded to a non-discriminatory program, what is the position of the School District? And if the School District hasn't talked about this, as hard to believe as that is, I'll accept that as an answer and wait for the 28 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 School District to take a position and come back and tell us. That's the critical question right now, as far as I'm concerned.
Councilman, if I can interject here. I think that, first of all, Mr. Jackson probably would, in fact, need to go back and confer with Mr. Vallas on that, but from our perspective as the City, what I would hope is that if we had the unfortunate situation where the $4 million was not approved in the school year '05 budget, that because of the communications that have already been made to students and families and because of the fact that applications have been submitted, that if, in fact, within the School District 6 million they could be able to satisfy the need and the applications for the current proper students for this graduating class of '04, that, in fact, they could have the scholarship program for this year and all of those applications would be satisfied. And then I think that the question would have to be what could happen in the future, because we do expect and we are 29 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 required to have demand exceeded, and if their resources couldn't cover it, then we'll just have to see what would happen in the future.
Ms. Kahn, I appreciate that and that sounds reasonable, but the person who runs the program sitting next to you, Mr. Jackson, who didn't answer the question about what would happen with strings attached to the 4.2 million, was emphatically clear that without the 4.2 million, there would be no scholarships. This is a School District program and he couldn't have made himself clear. Now, based on what you just said, Mr. Jackson, you just heard Ms. Kahn, has your position changed in the last ten minutes on that? Without the 4.2 million, what happens to the scholarship program? You said it would not occur.
No. My initial statement was that it would not be able to occur in the form we've originally designed for it. And, again, just for a bit of further clarification -- 30 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255
You said it wasn't going to happen next year without the 4.2 million. You said the scholarship program would not happen.
It would not occur in its present form next year, correct. It would have to occur in an altered form. And, again --
That was not your answer. Your answer wasn't about an alternate form. It was a yes or no, and the answer was no, it would not happen. If you're going to further clarify, now that Ms. Kahn has interjected her opinion, I don't mind that, but that's not what you said. And I still want an answer, if there is one, and I want it from you. You work for the School District and you run the program. What is the School District's position if the 4.2 million only comes to the School District if it's non-discriminatory?
Again, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, the initial 31 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 set-up was not that the money would ever come to the School District in any way, shape or form.
I don't care about the process. That's mechanical. That's how the money gets from here to there. What is the position of the School District if the program has to be expanded in order to get the 4.2 million? That's all.
Well, I think the process is important, only in that given an amount of 4.2 million under the initial cost-sharing proposal, the City would be able to pay their bill, so to speak, and there would be money left over from the 4.2 million to do whatever the City chose to do with it. If that was to expand it to private and parochial school students, that would certainly be the City's prerogative to do that.
I'm not talking about extra money. I'm talking about the 4.2 million the City only puts in the program if it's non-discriminatory. Let's get 32 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 real clear on that. We're not talking about if there's any dollars left over. In reading Mr. Vallas's statement today, it was very positive, very upbeat, it seemed very clear that this was the City's call. The City has 4.2 million to put in the program. The rest is basically coming from the Federal Government or any private sources that are out there. It's the City's call. The City up to this point, the Mayor and the Administration, have said they want the program to be in its current form, only for public school students. So if the City said, Sorry, the only way you can do this is if it is non-discriminatory, what happens to the program? And I'm talking about the program or not having the program, not a program that has a few dollars left if there's any parochial school students out there. What is the School District's position? This is not something that came up this morning. This has been discussed publicly and privately for months. 33 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255
If you can't speak to the position, we'll get Mr. Vallas in here when he's available.
Well, as I said, the School District's position is that the School District is not opposed to the program being opened up to private and parochial schools. The School District's only position is that the School District portion of the funds would not be used to support private and parochial school students.
I understand that. So the City can do whatever it wants with its 4.2 million, is what you're saying. The City wants to open this program up and put its 4.2 million into a program that's non-discriminatory. However you allocate the 6 million and the 4.2, that's okay with the School District. Is that what you're saying? I just haven't gotten a direct answer to this yet. Will there still be a program? 34 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 However the money is allocated as to what part of it is School District, what part of it is City, is there going to be a scholarship fund, as far as you're concerned, the School District is concerned, if the 4.2 million requires parochial school and other non-public school involvement?
Thank you. Mr. Jackson, knowing that there was an interest in what I think is even in Little League, you keep statistics of how many hits and strike-outs, don't you think knowing the interest that we have in wanting to know again something very basic, how many kids go to college that graduate from our public school system, don't you think we could poll the principals of the various schools? I'll bet you the information is out there. I mean, you really should be 35 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 embarrassed by this, not knowing that number. I'd be terribly embarrassed if I were Paul Vallas today. I knew when you came and he didn't that we were going to get this kind of an answer, because he brings the good news, you're delivering the bad news. But my question is, if a principal of a high school wouldn't care to know, even personally in a desk drawer to know how many of their students went on to college, did anybody ever think of asking the principals of the various schools to try to help pull this together to satisfy Council?
Again, Councilman, the previous process was one of polling counselors and receiving the information anecdotally. There are figures out there that contain that. How reliable they are, I would not want to base major decisions on those statistics. Moving forward, we have a system in place to get very accurate statistics on exactly that question. 36 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255
So what I'm hearing, that you would not have confidence if you picked up the phone right now and called the principal of one of the major high schools and said, if that principal were the principal last year, How many of your students went on to college, you would not have confidence in that?
We could certainly get a number. How accurate it would be, I can't vouch for.
Tell me about this program that you're going to contract with. How much is that going to cost us, this data that seems stupid to me, but maybe it's --
$5,000 to find out how many kids went to college from our system?
Correct. And that will actually give us enrollment data based on university information. 37 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255
Okay. So I'd be curious, and I'm going to ask you to do this, I'm going to ask you, I'm sure you have an internal e-mail or some system that you could send a spray message to all principals. I'd like to see you maybe save 5,000 bucks since we're talking about -- and maybe the principals will come back and say, Yeah, we have a reliable way, we know. If they're doing their job, they should know. But I'd just be curious to test the system to see what kind of feedback you get before you spend this money. Not that it's a lot of money, but what's that cliche about the little dollars add up to big ones? I think I'm close to that. But it just amazes me. It really does. Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, 38 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 Madam President. Good morning.
I have a couple of questions, relatively brief. One, I'd like to get a number -- and I'm assuming the School District may not have this. So, Ms. Kahn, you may need to help on this. I'd like to get a number of the total students in the City of Philadelphia, both public and private currently. The other part of that, I'd like, if at all possible, to kind of categorize those. I noted you obviously have public school students, and parochial school students would be the next category in terms of numbers. And if there are any other categories that have substantive amounts, I'd like to get that number, if at all possible, as we continue this debate.
All right. The other thing, on the Federal dollars, you 39 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 indicated that there was some limitations on the ability to spend that money and it was primarily targeted for scholarships. Are there any other prohibitions? Does it speak about different categories of schools, like private schools, religious schools, or is it purely targeted to public schools in the allocation?
It was a grant awarded to the School District of Philadelphia, and other than the general limitations that are contained within the Federal language for the Gear-Up grant, there are no additional restrictions. But it was a grant awarded to the School District for the purpose of programming and enhancement in the Philadelphia School District.
Generally in the sense of college scholarships, but not necessarily targeted to this particular program, Gear-Up?
Correct. Scholarship is a component of the Gear-Up Program. The Gear-Up Program is a general 40 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 program to increase college-going rates and college preparation among school students, and it's a program that operates nationwide, and we're the recipient of one of those grants.
Okay. This is more or less a suggestion, because we're entering into this debate and we're talking about commingling of resources, be it Federal, Municipal level, State level and from a broader policy perspective. I think that as we move ahead, we may want to entertain having this discussion, because I think that this could possibly -- I hate to use the word slippery slope, but as I listen to the testimony, when we talk about funding for SAT courses or test-taking, we talk about potentially funding for other issues, such as vouchers, I can see that we will broaden the discussion as it relates to the commingling of funds and the commingling of educational opportunity. So it's just a suggestion. You can take it back to Mr. Vallas and Ms. Kahn. We may want to, as we move ahead in this process, 41 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 consider having that serious conversation to talk about the broader policy implications of what we're discussing today, because I can see that we ultimately will be going there. Madam President, thank you.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm getting the impression that the School District, the second floor or the Office of the Secretary of Education aren't on the same page on this issue. I'm hearing conflicting positions on where you really stand on this issue of the scholarship program. Paul Vallas said this morning that he's okay with it, I picked up as I walked in, and maybe that's not exactly true. The Secretary of Education yesterday, in all due respect to her, said that there was no 25 information compiled by the School District 42 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 for last year's graduation class. I called the School District late yesterday afternoon, early evening and they told me that between 4,000 to 5,000 seniors of last year's graduating class went on to college. And I'm hearing today that you don't have that type of data and that you could not rely on the principals' information of how many kids went to college. And that continues to astound me, because to compile that data, you don't need computer technology. What you actually need is pre-computer era gadgets, like a calculator, that when you tell a principal to provide a -- and I know a lot of them get that information from the counselors. I know the counselors have that information. That is a matter of just getting a pre-computer era calculator and adding. And it's not like our public school kids are going to college at 100 percent. By some of the information that I have, it might not be 100 percent precise, but less than 50 percent of our kids are going off to college, and that might be a very generous number; that it 43 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 doesn't take a whole lot to add up 100 from one school, 200 from the other, 50 from the other, 800 from the other to come up. What's so sophisticated about adding the number of kids graduating and going off to college in the school year? I mean, did you have to get a special computer from Dell or a special program? I still use a pre-computer era calculator that I used as a construction worker to do all my work. And I don't mean to be funny, because it's a very serious issue. I also got -- Madam President, you requested I do this. I just talked to the Archdiocese. They still are in talks and using me as an intermediary to see if they can work this out with the Administration and Congressman Fattah. And that's what they just finished telling me. And I don't know what else I can do. Councilman O'Neill has stated very clearly that we're running out of time, and I concur with him. I don't know what else I can do. The Administration has put or the School 44 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 District or somebody, I don't think they're all on the same page, has put an April 15th deadline to this. If we do work this out, how can we get our non-public school kids to benefit from this program, I don't know. So although the Archdiocese feels at this time that they're still in talks with the Administration, I think that I'm running out of my involvement in this matter when it comes to being an intermediary when we're actually running out of time. This needs to be settled one way or the other. If not, what I was trying to avoid, and that it is a vote in this City Council on this matter, might have to happen, I sure hope not, but might have to happen unless this is resolved like very, very soon. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Can I just 45 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 address one of the Councilman's concerns? The initial deadline that was set was one simply to allow time for processing of the number of applications that we anticipated receiving. It is certainly possible to either extend that deadline across the board or to establish an additional deadline. If the decision of Council is to include private and parochial school students, that they can even have a separate deadline. The initial deadline was simply to try and insure adequate time for processing of the number of applications that we anticipated receiving.
So you're still open to have this extended to go to -- so that this scholarship will be available to non-public school children, right?
So when are we going to make that happen? I mean, we have so many other departments here, and we have addressed this issue now and talked and 46 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 debated this issue for days now. We need to get this resolved right away, and I think that you're in a position or someone is in a position, the Administration, to get this resolved soon, like today. I mean, here, this is -- I want to read this. This is in today's paper. It says, "I can't argue with the logic behind that, he said. I think it should be for all kids. Parochial school kids' parents pay taxes too, don't they?" And this is not a quote from my colleague, Brian O'Neill. He said something yesterday. This is a quote from the Chief Executive Officer of the School District of Philadelphia, Paul Vallas. So can someone listen to the head of our School District and make this happen?
Councilman, if I can respond on a couple of points, because I do think that there are several issues underway. First, on the issue of the data and the information, I would ask Councilman Ramos now or some time later, I know that I would be 47 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 sincerely interested in finding out to which office that you spoke at the School District to get that information, because --
I will make it available to you as long as there's no 7 repercussion on the person who gave me the information.
It came from the College Career Awareness department. Is that your department?
You guys need to get your act together and get to letting us know -- you guys need to get your act together before you come here, because with all due respect again to you that were kind enough -- I've had the good fortune of working with you in the past. For you guys to be on the same page and have this -- you have 48 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 a coherent answer to where you really stand. The School District chief is saying one thing. You're saying another. Your office has provided me information. You're saying that information is not available.
Thank you. I'm old school. I have a meeting coming up. I just want to do this. I just did a very unscientific poll with my cell phone here. I called a principal of a high school and I asked him, I said, Listen, Pal, how many people graduated last year? Off the top of his head, 420. Out of those 420, how many people went to college? Off the top of his head, 65 percent. That's 273 people. I did that in three minutes. I think we can do that without a computer. A couple of phone calls, how many high schools we have. So obviously what Councilman Ramos and Councilman O'Neill and the rest of the 49 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 Council people here are trying to do -- Mr. Jackson, welcome to Philadelphia. This is great, but this is obviously going to happen. We will afford this program, but want to jump on it and get this done now. All these excuses in the world aren't going to pay off when you have -- the magic number here is nine. You obviously have more than nine. So it's going to happen. Go back to the School District, tell Vallas it's going to happen. Start doing the math. Figure it out. Get it ready. It's going to happen. Thank you.
Councilman Ramos, are you finished with your questioning?
Yes. We got a lot of people here waiting. We need to get an answer very, very soon. If not, we're going to be put in a position to vote on this. I think it's very obvious to the public, to the people that have been here, that there's some very serious concerns around this, there's some very serious votes around here. 50 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 That's all I have to say.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman O'Neill for a moment.
Thank you. Just with the information we received today, you could delve into this program, the background of it, what the School District is doing, how it compares to other districts. We don't have time for that right now. In fact, time is of the essence in a very unusual way. This 4.2 million in normal circumstances in a budget, if it were money with the Art Museum or any other piece of the budget, we know when our deadlines are. They're basically on or around May 20th to get a budget out of Committee, and that's when the hard and fast negotiations go on and restrictions and if we move money to a certain area where we have more control. That's not the case here. There's a deadline tomorrow and we have the real-world 51 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 school year to deal with. I just want to put on the record for our witnesses that I've spoken both to the Council President and the Majority Leader this morning to ask that a letter be drafted by Council leadership with as many signatures as want to sign of Council members, because of the extraordinary nature of the timing of this, to go to the Administration of both the City and the School District and make it very clear that these monies, the $4.2 million, will only be supported in this budget with an expansion that is non-discriminatory and with a deadline moved -- I don't want to get into whether it should be for all students or for the non-public. I'd hate to start getting discriminatory now that we're talking about the very opposite of that. But that this happen by tomorrow so it's very clear to all students, all parents that this is being worked out, that what Mr. Vallas said he means and that what he said, Council also agrees with. So hopefully by the end of the day 52 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 or the next few hours both the Mayor and Mr. Vallas will have such a letter and we can get some movement on this, get issues that are -- this is a very difficult budget. There's a whole lot of other issues, but they're issues that can be worked on over the next four to five weeks. This is not one of them. This is extraordinary because of the school year, because of the deadline in place and the need to send the right message out to Philadelphia taxpayers. So hopefully we'll be getting that. Obviously the two witnesses will be copied on it, and we can get some movement on it by the time we're in City Council session tomorrow. Thank you.
That's great. Thank you. Councilman Kelly, in view of what Councilman O'Neill just said, do you still want to be recognized?
Yes, I want to be recognized, Madam Chair. Thank you. Mr. Jackson, I just want to follow 53 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 up with what Councilman Ramos was getting into. What negotiations have taken place with the School District with the Archdiocese of Philadelphia? Have you been having regular meetings with them or is it just something you don't discuss with them that much or you let Councilman Ramos do most of the negotiations for you?
If there have been meetings that have occurred, I have not been a part of them, so I can't speak to that.
In other words, you haven't really been in any discussions with the Archdiocese of Philadelphia?
Again, myself personally, no, but I can't say that the School District has not.
To your knowledge, has anyone from the Administration been negotiating or having meetings at least to get input from the Archdiocese?
To my knowledge, 54 Whole - 4/14/04 - Bill No. 040255 I'm not aware.
Well, this scholarship program, 4.2 million, where is that money coming from? Is it from the school budget? Is that coming out of the '05 school budget?
No, Councilman. That is coming from the general operating budget of the City.