COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC HEALTH AND PUBLIC SERVICES - - - Room 401, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, December 8, 1998 4:10 p.m. - - - RESOLUTION 980676 - Resolution authorizing the Committee on Public Health, Human Services and Recreation to conduct hearings for the purpose of examining the placement and concentration Community Living Arrangement houses in the City's residential neighborhoods. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN TASCO, Chairman COUNCILMAN RICHARD MARIANO COUNCILMAN FRANK DI CICCO COUNCILWOMAN ANNA VERNA COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO, JR. COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 I N D E X RESOLUTION 980676 ESTELLE RICHMAN, Dept. of Health ------------ 8 DAVID A. LOSINNO, Special People in Northeast 36 BEVERLY BERFIELD --------------------------- 38 FREDERICK BERFIELD ------------------------- 71 JOAN COLEY --------------------------------- 78 BILL CORNELLY, Fresh Start ----------------- 89 JOSEPH ROGERS, Mental Health Assoc. -------- 96 AUDREY COCCIA, Vision for Equity ----------- 110 RAY POUNCE, One Day at a Time -------------- 120 RUTH FRANK --------------------------------- 122 EDITH KOSMIN ------------------------------- 126 3 Resolution 980676 CHAIRWOMAN MARIAN TASCO: Good afternoon. I'd like to call the Committee on Public Health and Human Services to order. We're here this afternoon to have a hearing on Resolution 980676. We have a quorum in the presence of the Councilman Mariano, Councilman Rizzo, Councilwoman Verna and we'd like the clerk to read the title of the bill.
Resolution 980676 authorizing the Committee on Public Health, Human Services and Recreation to conduct hearings for the purpose of examining the placement and concentration of Community Living Arrangement houses in the City's residential neighborhoods. Whereas, the use of community living arrangements groups of three or more mentally handicapped people living together in a single dwelling as skyrocketed in recent years; and Whereas, these facilities are usually placed among other single family homes and their placement cannot be regulated by the City of Philadelphia, and recognizing that although community living arrangements are important tools in the treatment of the mentally ill, the secretive measures that their operators use while establishing 4 Resolution 980676 the facilities cause great deal of apprehension in the residential community; and Whereas, recognizing that a open discussion of the placement and operation of these facilities will ease the fears of neighbors and aid treatment of their clients to tighter ties to the residential community. Now, therefore, resolved by the County of the City of Philadelphia hereby authorizing the Council's Committee on Public Health and Human Services to conduct hearings for the purpose of examining placement and concentration of community arrangements in the City's residential area. CHAIRWOMAN TASCO: Thank you. We want to thank all of you waiting so patiently this afternoon. We apologize, but we had a very important and spirited hearing today on charter schools, and unfortunately we only have one hearing room. So we really apologize for the delay and thank you for waiting. The discussion on community living arrangements has been going on since I took office in 1988. Every now and then we have to pause to revisit the issue to see if we are maintaining the 5 Resolution 980676 level of communication and respect that we would like these programs to fulfill. Today we have another update. In the past I have always given my support to both the community and to special people who live in group homes. They are our families and our loved ones. Society must assist those who are not able to help themselves have the best life that they can, and living in the community is a worthwhile goal. However, in many instances, we must be sure there will be harmony as we work together for the good of all. We will explore today the ways we can build better safeguards into the plans to develop and operation group homes. Those providers of group homes must work in tandem as partners in this endeavor to provide safe and appropriate living arrangements for those who can benefit from group living. And we won't solve the problem today, but it's important we begin this dialog. And it was through Councilman Mariano that he introduced this resolution and he will now have some comments. Again, thank you for coming.
Thank you, Madam 6 Resolution 980676 Chairwoman. Basically I just have a real quick statement to make and it's pretty much off the cuff. This isn't a witch hunt, so I don't want the Commissioner or anyone else to be nervous. But I've only been here since 1996, not as long as the Councilwoman, but it seems these problems keep coming back up. What we have to do from our point of view is try to make everybody happy and with wisdom Solomon. That's not always available. I'm worried about the rights of the disabled, but I'm also worried about the rights of the people that chose to live in these neighborhoods that we pick to have these homes in. So this isn't tainted one way or the other. Everybody's going to get their chance to speak today and we will have other hearings and the advocacy groups can relax. We're trying to protect fair housing, but again, the people that live in different housing neighborhoods need to know that they have some rights, too. We can get United States Congress down here and talk about the Americans with Disability Act, and we probably all fall asleep in about minutes. 24 MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: (Inaudible.) 25
Well, I don't know 7 Resolution 980676 if we can. MEMBER OF AUDIENCE: (Inaudible.)
Well, you know what? You see, I'm talking now. So when I talk, you don't get to talk. It's basically what they teach you in first grade. So if we can't do that, we might as well not have the hearing. And that's probably what you would like. But this is going to be an open discussion despite what you want, okay? That's fair enough. So we're trying to find out here exactly what happens to the rights of the disabled and the rights of the people that live in the neighborhoods. So let's get on with this thing. Thank you. Our first person will be -- CHAIRWOMAN TASCO: We will remind the audience that this is a public hearing. Everyone has an opportunity to come forth and present their position on this issue, we do want it to be an effective hearing so that we can listen to what the concerns are and hopefully come up with some resolution on how we're going to all work and live together. So we would appreciate if you would give the respect to the people who are testifying. If 8 Resolution 980676 you disagree with something, I hope you will make not of it and when you come forward you can state your position on the issue or why you disagree or agree with someone else. But we want to have a respectful hearing this afternoon. First we'd like to call the health commissioner, that's Commissioner Estelle Richman to come forward and make her presentation. Good afternoon, Commissioner. Would you please state your name for the record? COMMISSIONER ESTELLE RICHMAN: Good afternoon Councilwoman Tasco, Councilman Mariano, Councilwoman Verna. I am Estelle Richman, Commissioner of the Department of Public Health. I have with me Mike Covone, the Deputy Commissioner for Mental Health and Mental Retardation and Mark Vincivengo (ph) the Deputy Commissioner for CODAAP. I am here today to provide information on the array of residential facilities which are provided by the Department of Public Health. The Department of Public Health is responsible to assure that people with special needs have access to housing and services in the community and that these services are provided in accordance 9 Resolution 980676 with fair housing legislation Americans with Disabilities legislation. The Department of Public Health funds several different housing types in three divisions. I will describe briefly the housing type, the average number of units, the number of people per unit, the staffing assignment, the primary funding source, and the section of the department that provides oversight and standards. I will also describe the procedure used notify the community and councilpersons. Finally I will present a description of the Good Neighbor program being piloted in West Philadelphia. The Office of Mental Retardation funds services to 1600 individuals living at 600 apartments and homes. These residences are called CLAs, Community Living Arrangements. They are for people with mental retardation or developmental disabilities. The typical home includes three people and the residents have 24-hour staffing. The CLA's are located throughout the city. Funding for these residences come from the State Office of Mental Retardation. The Office of Mental Retardation also funds intermediate care facilities 10 Resolution 980676 for mental retardation (ICF-MR). These facilities were acquired and renovated by a bond issued in 1986. They provide homes for four to eight individuals. There are also located in all parts of the city. The Office of Mental Health funds several types of residential facilities. The first is LTSR, Long-term Structured Residences. There are seven residences of persons each. There are 11 three in Chestnut here, one in Mount Airy, one in 12 West Philadelphia, one in South Philadelphia and the 13 newest in Northeast Philadelphia. There is 24-hour 14 staffing. 15 CRR's, Community Rehabilitation 16 Residences. There are 26 CRR's.
They are located throughout the city and provide housing and supports for an average of 14 persons per residence and support over 360 people totally. There's also 24-hour staffing support. Independent and Supported Independent Living. In these arrangements the clients live independently with staff proportion to their need. Some people need 20 to 30 hours support per week to start but may require 4 to 6 hours per week after 11 Resolution 980676 the first year. In addition, there is independent housing where clients can live without staff supports. These arrangements are developed by our housing development corporation that purchases and renovates small apartment buildings or master lease apartments on behalf of the client. In both cases noted before, the client signs the lease. There are over 600 people supported in these living arrangements. In most cases, individuals live alone or share a residence with one other individual. SRL's are located throughout the City. There is also a mixed category of various residential types which includes residential facilities which are commonly referred to Progressive Demand Residences, Specialized Residences, and Residential Inpatient Non-Hospital Treatment Programs. There are 45 such facilities; 15, 28 and 2 respectively, which means there are 15 Progressive Demand Residences, 28 Specialized Residences, and 2 Residential Inpatient Non-Hospital Treatment Programs which house 530 persons with an average capacity of 15. They all have on site staffing 24 hours a day, seven days a week. CODAAP contracts with 11 agencies to 12 Resolution 980676 provide 14 recovery houses. Currently these agencies provide for a capacity of 219 people. The basic rule in recovery housing is residents must agree to be active in a Pennsylvania Department of Health licensed treatment program. The programs have round the clock daily coverage and provide a variety of social supports for residents. These residences are located throughout the City. Funding for these programs comes from the Philadelphia Department of Health through a grant from the Pennsylvania Department of Health. CODAAP also provides funding for two different types of residential treatment programs which are licensed by the Pennsylvania Department of Health. These are non-hospital detoxification programs and non-hospital rehabilitation programs. With one exception, the State licensed non-hospital detoxification programs occupy space in community hospitals such as St. Joseph's, Parkview, and Kensington. There are non-hospital 22 rehabilitation programs which provide services to 23 653 people. They are located throughout the City. 24 The funding is primarily through CBH or BHSI. 25 Finally, CODAAP provides support through 13 Resolution 980676 a State grant to 6 houses which provide residential services and social supports to 112 homeless individuals. These houses also maintain a round the clock coverage. All residential facilities supported by CODAAP, OMH and OMR have been assigned a staff person from these offices who visits the programs routinely and provides monitoring, oversight, and technical assistance. In 1997, the City began structuring the process to approve residential sites before they are purchased. The provider advises the health department that it has found an appropriate site for one of the residential programs described above. Essential information concerning the program includes the address, the purpose of the program, the closest program of similar type, the agency developing the program, and the contact the agency has had with the community. Once the site has received approval to proceed, the agency makes an effort to inform neighbors and the councilperson about the program, its structure, and to respond to any other concerns. Every effort is made to help the community accept 14 Resolution 980676 the program realizing on some occasions some residents of the community remain opposed.
At the request of a West Philadelphia neighborhood association, the Department of Public Health and Department of Human Services met for several months to discuss how to create new housing in the neighborhood with community support. In June of 1998, the new policy called the Good Neighbor Policy was written and adopted. The agreement is to pilot the initiative for a year, evaluate its effect on the community, and to decide whether to generalize the policy to the entire City. To date, this project has been an overwhelming success with only one reported complaint. On this promising note, I would like to take one moment to point that all Department of Public Health facilities are extensively monitored by my department and often by the State Department of Public Welfare as well. They are licensed as required by the Department of Public Welfare. A 1994 study estimated that there are approximately 950 unlicensed, unregulated, and unmonitored congregate facilities in your City. These facilities are not funded by government and 15 Resolution 980676 typically have minimal staffing. The facilities are usually poorly maintained. These facilities are the major cause of complaints from neighborhoods and City Councilpersons to my department. Addressing these concerns which do not fall within our purview will require substantial action on the part of the Commonwealth and the City. I'll be happy to answer any questions.
Thank you, Commissioner. Looks like everyone baled out, but I assure you everyone's listening in their office on their boxes. There's a couple things you spoke about, I just want to ask you a question. First of all, I just want to define and separate these two things. I mean, you talk about the latter part, the un licensed facilities and probably in the perfect world that's what all the complaints are about. I can speak about one thing -- we've talked about this before. You talked in here on about maintaining contact with the councilperson. Now, you know what I'm going to ask you about COMAR, I don't want to get into a specific incident, but when do you tell the councilperson or the neighbors? Do you tell them after the house is 16 Resolution 980676 bought as in COMAR's incident, or do you tell us before it's bought? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: The agencies submits to us, submits to the City Administration basic information listed on the top of . At that point it is before the property has been bought. Once we have that approval to proceed, the agency at that point begins to purchase the property and hopefully at that time begins to talk to both the neighbors and to the councilperson.
So in a case where the agency has bought the house months before they notify anybody like in the case that we're both familiar with, does that fall into -- do you say, "Look, you guys are making it hard for us, you're making it hard for the councilperson, all the other elected officials with the neighbors because if you came to us in advance" -- and I'm not saying this to you, I'm saying this for the record because you and I have had this discussion. I think we both agree what needs to be done in the future, and that's what these hearings are about. So we don't have to go through this whole thing over and over like Councilwoman Tasco said '88, now it's '98 and we're 17 Resolution 980676 here again 10 years. And certainly a lot of things have happened in them 10 years. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: A lot of things have happened over 10 years, and certainly there are many more people living in the community and living very normal lives in the community. Our hope is to work with communities, and that was one of the reasons as we worked with West Philadelphia develop good neighbor policy. But we also need to work with people who have a right to live in the community. And we try to balance those two. In many times in the early years that Councilwoman Tasco talked about, the moment we said we were going to buy a house in the neighborhood, all the opposition came up and it would months if not years to get a basic three person house in the neighborhood. What we've tried to do is trying to find the right combination of discussion, which is, let us begin to look at the house, buy the house, and then work with the community to try to make sure we answer all their questions and to bring them along to be able to -- if they want to know how much staffing, the kinds of clients, what are the supports, what is the monitoring, is it under contract, is there a very 18 Resolution 980676 firm way to make sure this will not hurt the community. And to be good neighbors is our whole goal.
I hear what you're saying about that, but, again, I don't think you really answered my question. With this incident we talked about, exactly what you said you were going to do, you didn't do. I understand why you don't do that because of the signs. I mean, whatever starts out, everybody's going to be against it, nobody wants that in their neighborhood unless they have some kind of experience. And certainly, everyone has the right do what they need to do as far as the handicapped is concerned. But why do we say one thing and do another? Is it because maybe the agency that we're speaking about was getting into something that they never did before? They were -- and correct me if I'm wrong. Weren't they good with the CLA's and then all of a sudden somebody sells them a bill of goods where you go for this other thing with 16 people in a house. Now all of sudden they went from a lot of CLA's to 16 people in house? And everything you say in here is exactly what didn't happen there. And then the biggest fear in 19 Resolution 980676 the neighborhood is the unknown. I know they have no right to say, we can't have people from Norristown here, we have sexual offenders, we have drug addicts. But isn't there a way you can notify at least the elected officials and they can say, Look, I can't tell you the names of the people who are going to be there or what their problems are going to be, but you're concerned because -- and you have general concerns. They may turn out this place may be perfect. In two years there may not be a problem and it would be -- hindsight's always 20/20 but why don't we just do that? Why don't we go to the State Senator whose office is across the street. Why don't you go to the district councilman and say, Look, we're not going to tell you the names of the people or why they're in here, but these people are going to be from here or they're not from Norristown Mental Hospital or wherever." There has to be something we can give back to our constituents because we're left hanging. That's what this is all about. We're left hanging in the wind with nothing. "I don't know." "Well, why don't you know? You're the councilman." 20 Resolution 980676 "Well, they don't tell me." "Well, who don't tell you?" "The Administration." "Why don't the Administration tell you?" "I don't know." Now when I started figuring out why I don't know, they didn't tell us because they never planned on telling us in my opinion because of what would happen or the fear of what would happen with the neighbors being against something. Am I correct there in assuming that, partially or totally off base? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: We hope that the agencies work with you, and we have asked them to work with the councilpeople and the neighbors in the community.
But what do we do in that case where they don't? That the group just may be a group. The other groups may be well and they may have done that. Meanwhile they have a big project there and -- COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Some groups do it as a matter of fact have very good relationships and do it ongoing. 21 Resolution 980676
And that particular group had always done it. But when they got to this particular project that was bigger than they ever did before because it was CLA to this -- what's that? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: It's a LTSR, a Long Term Structured Residence.
Which the people don't know what we're talking about, it's a big difference. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: There is a difference. There's a difference in clientele. A CLA provides residential programming to people who have mental retardation. And a LTSR provides a residential service for people who have mental illness.
Well, the people in the CLA's, there basically the people that can go to work and function anyhow, right? I mean, there's not a problem? They don't need to be -- COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: In reality I actually think it may be the reverse.
Because it's my understanding like in that particular project that 22 Resolution 980676 we're talking about, the reason that was a big sell was because it was in a residential setting. But in my non-professional opinion, we have a residential setting where people are locked in a house that there's time limitations when they open the door to get out. If they're that bad or if they're that bad off, why do they have to be in a residential setting. Can't it be -- I understand why they want it and I understand why the CLA -- it may be great to put them in neighborhoods like Juliana Park or Frankford or another neighborhood where nobody knows any difference and they go to work and nobody knows. I actually know some of those people in a couple of them houses and it works out. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I think that the fact that there's time delay lock on it was as much of an assurance on the part of the department that we would know where people are all time. I mean, we ran into -- the neighbors often say, "How do you know when someone's going to be out?" Well, this way we know. It's trying, again, to find that very, very careful balance between what neighbors are concerned about and the personal freedom and ability for people to live in a community. Many of the 23 Resolution 980676 people who live in many of our -- whether it's people with mental retardation or people with mental illness have the ability to go out to work. They got to the programs. The day programs that they go to are not within those houses. So almost always there will be people outside the program attending a day program, going to work.
Most of the people in the project we're speaking about won't be going to work. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: They will be going to some other kind of program during the day.
They won't stay in that house all the time? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I don't believe they're staying in the house all the time.
You see, but here's one of the problems. Here we are today the 8th of December, now we're finding out a year later when this house was bought and it took a City Council hearing to find this information out. Why couldn't they have told the neighbors or at least told the 24 Resolution 980676 elected officials this information because then we could have let some of the neighbors' fears lie to rest, yes, no, or I can't tell you. I have no 5 problem saying "Here is why I can't tell you." COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I was under the impression that there were several meetings within the neighborhood to discuss all aspects of the program.
Not ones I were at. Most of them were pretty bad meetings because they were ran them wrong. This should be the test case of how not to do it again. There were meetings but after they purchased -- they purchased the house in December. They tell the elected officials in March. They knew in December. And I went down to talk to all the ladies on the board and they're certainly nice ladies, men and ladies. That group's been around int Port Richmond for a long time and they have some great concerns. And they told me off the record they said, "Councilman, we wish we never knew anything about this because this is more publicity than we ever wanted to have." And I said, "All we need here is a healing process." I've yet to see that healing process. I still get complaints from 25 Resolution 980676 the people that live in that area. Are they dwindling? Not really. Will some people get used to it? Hopefully. They have some real concerns, and that's what we need to address. And I know that's not on you. Commissioner, I know what you're trying to do and I think you have well intentions, so do I, so do those people, and so do these people. But we got to get all those well intentions and figure out what makes common sense and this doesn't happen again. That's strictly what this is about. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Maybe one of the things we can do is share with you the Good Neighbor Policy that we've drawn up with a community in West Philadelphia. Part of the protections, though, afforded both under the Americans with Disabilities and fair housing is that the purchase of the house happens and then the neighborhood information. The reason for doing it in that order is because so we don't delay. We're in an explanation, a beginning to describe to people how the housing works, begin to answer any questions on it. But that the purchase of a house isn't contained in all of those meetings that have to happen.
I think the person Resolution 980676 made the most sense out of anything that I heard was Debbie Russo. Now, Debbie can't be here today because she's about to give birth any minute. In fact, twins we're waiting for. But Debbie actually said at one of the -- I'm hope I'm not misquoting her. But when the zoning board asked her at one of the injunction hearings why they don't tell the neighbors, she pretty much said what you said, she said because the neighbors would always be against it. Imagine how that sounds if you have $180,000 house or a $25,000 house next to where this is coming in. It's like, we can't handle this, we're all afraid of this federal law and federal judges. Well, the federal laws and federal judges may be right. That's why there are laws and that's there are judges. This is my unlegal opinion. But these people that live in these neighborhoods have some rights, too, at lesion to be heard. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: That's exactly why we really do want and will continue to push all agencies that from the point that there is known that they're going to be in this housing that they have to meet with the neighbors, that they have to become good neighbors which means sharing 27 Resolution 980676 information, not confidential information, but because people are in these houses not prisoners, they're in there to begin to be part of the neighborhood and to be part of the community and they can only do that if anybody can share with each other.
And listen, we're not the only city dealing with this. Read Philadelphia Magazine what the people that live in Norristown are thinking about right now. It's very pertinent to this hearing today. My other question, I just wanted to ask you -- if you know this answer, yes; if you don't, just don't say no. I'm not trying to put you in a spot. Is there a game plan? Like, we start out in West Philadelphia or South Philadelphia, now we have to get up in the Northeast because there's not enough houses? Can you answer that? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: No, there is not a game plan. Basically for any housing, we issue a request for proposal and we read those proposals and make a decision based on the cost, the ability of the agency to provide housing up to standard and where they are in the process of being able to have 28 Resolution 980676 demonstrated that they can manage. And the agency that presents the soundest proposal usually is awarded it. We also have both family members and consumers sit, no one from the agency and no one from a provider, usually sits on the reading committee for RFP so we dan make sure we have an impartial panel. The whole process is trying to choose. At this point we're not looking parts of the City, we're looking at the best proposal.
I think the one other thing I would add to that is the one other area where we do get somewhat restricted is based on the needs of the individuals. Many of the individuals we've been dealing with in the last two or three years have had physical disabilities as well as other disabilities so that handicapped accessible homes and there aren't obviously in all areas of the city that isn't available so we have done more development particularly in the MR side over the last few years in the far northeast and in the Upper Roxborough Andorra area just because of the housing style issue.
Because the housing isn't handicap accessible. 29 Resolution 980676
Right. The housing in those areas are probably more handicap accessible. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: If we need one floor, South Philadelphia doesn't have a lot of one-floor housing. And for many of the people with physical handicaps in wheelchairs, that would be a necessity. Mike is right.
This is a little off the beaten path here, but right now I have a place in a neighborhood and someone calls me and says, "Councilman, there's eight people in a house and they're not related, they didn't come through zoning for everything and it's a drug -- as best we can find out it just started two days ago, but best we can find out it's probably not licensed, it has some violations for some other stupid stuff like steps and railings and all," but if Councilman DiCicco and I decided get out this business and we wanted to go into this business, is that all you got to do, open up a house, you don't have to go to anybody? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: To go into business all you have to do find a house, get a business license from L & I, find people who will 30 Resolution 980676 want to move in and you're in business.
So you can get eight people who may have heroin problems and you can put them in a house? I don't have to know anything about heroin, we don't have anybody to counsel? That's how simple it is? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: There are a couple of personal care boarding homes in the City that have more than 200 people in them. They have a license from L & I and they can -- they charge people who live in them. There are no way receiving any public dollars from the State or from the City and they operate as a business. And many of them, we wish they wouldn't.
Now, let me ask you this. Now, say Frank and I want to do this same business, but instead of drug addicts, we want to have people who have mental handicaps; can we do the same thing? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: You can do the same thing.
Sign up eight people, you may have five people, they have three. We don't have to have any expertise? Frank's a 31 Resolution 980676 Chef, I'm an electrician. What do we do, just go in this business? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: There is nothing within L & I being able to set up your own business that would prevent you from doing this.
We have people with some real serious problems and us not being able to handle that -- COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: If they want City money, then they have to meet a very substantial list of standards. If they want State money, they have to meet a vert substantial list of standards.
But if we're getting people's private money, we don't have to do anything? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: That's right.
That's amazing. Does that happen a lot? Besides the drug stuff. I know that happens. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: There are 960 houses of what you described out there that all hold anywhere from to 200 people. 24
What's this other 25 thing that I've been hearing about, there's one up 32 Resolution 980676 on the Boulevard below Oxford Circle, it's mainly for senior citizens that can't quite take care of themselves? Is that different? Is that assistant care? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: It could be assistant care.
Do we do anything with that from the City or is that State? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: All State or, again, or private dollars. Many of these people, many folks who have a mental illness or have mental retardation receive SSI. An SSI check often when they move into one of these facilities, the owner of the facility takes over their SSI check and gives them money back.
Now, say if someone's SSI check, it Irv's SSI check and he's in my facility and it's in Irv's name. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: It's in Irv's name.
Irv gives it to me once a month. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Right.
Doesn't anybody 33 Resolution 980676 from the Federal Government come around and make sure I'm not taking advantage of Irv or he's getting the care? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: If he were to go complain --
I see everybody shaking their head so they know that this happens. Does this happen? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Oh, this is not new to any of us.
Because I got to wonder, when I was young -- I'm going to go on a tangent here. My uncle drove a bus to Ceilings Grove State School and Hospital, and I used go along with him on that bus. I was about 7 or 8 years old. And they had a farm much like Norristown I suppose was in the old days. And there were some very severely handicapped people in there. I was a young man, I mean, really young, and I used to watch and it seems to me what was worse, I mean, I don't know. What was worse there and having to do that work every day the State got out of that or leaving people up to some unscrupulous person that may just be in it for the money? 34 Resolution 980676 COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Well, this is one of the reasons why we monitor and set standards for the programs we fund very carefully, to make sure staff are qualified. You wouldn't -- I don't know all of your background, but probably you and the Councilman may not be qualified to run a house. You need to have both the administrative skill, there needs to be some clinical skill and you need to hire people with those skills to be able to bring support to folks. It's not a free-for-all. But many times when people have these disabilities, if there's no 13 support, then they become fair game for the entrepreneurs who are going to set up any kind of residential program, take their money, and not often provide them with the level of service they need. One of the most frequent kinds of housing that we are most concerned about, and I think that Mark can talk to at the same time is some of the drug and recovery houses that are not funded through CODAAP or the State and therefore have no 22 restraints about how they run or who runs them.
So basically as a district councilman, the only way to stop this from happening from what you just spoke about, the 35 Resolution 980676 recovery house or make life tough with them at L & I or make sure all their buildings are up to code, you know, fire and electrical. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Well, Councilman Kenney has for several years been trying to look at a way --
What's his name? Councilman who? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Kenney.
Oh, okay, I know him. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Has been looking at ways particularly around recovery housing on how we can make sure that the folks providing those houses are providing a clear service.
I was administrative assistant for Councilman Kenney for two years. And he was on that in Kensington. There was some good places, but there were some, they were getting money from everybody. They taking the guys tokens off of him actually. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: If you have a house that you're concerned about, if you let us have the address, we will let you know whether or 36 Resolution 980676 not it's anywhere within our program.
Do we have any kind of list, anybody at that table where we might know what ones are out there that you may have gotten reports on broken down by council districts? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Yes, we do.
Is that something that we could possibly get? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Sure. We can send it to you.
Will you send it Councilwoman Tasco? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Yes, we will.
I have no other questions for these three witnesses. Councilman DiCicco? Seeing none, that's it. Thanks for hanging around. The next witnesses will be the SPIN representatives. State your name and organization for the record.
David A. Losinno, President and Chief Executive Officer of Special People in Northeast, Incorporated. I'm pleased to 37 Resolution 980676 be here today to provide testimony on behalf of the initiatives taken by the Philadelphia County Office of Mental Health and Mental Retardation to provide residences in the community for individuals who have mental retardation. I am joined here today by Kathleen Brown-McHale, Corporate Officer for Adult Services at SPIN. SPIN is a private non-profit corporation Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, which was founded by parents of children with mental retardation in 1970. At that time, the parents were seeking summer programs for their youngsters. From this small beginning, the agency has grown in size so that it is multi-dimensional, multi-service habilitation agency serving over 1,200 individuals with mental retardation. Appended to this testimony is printed material from the agency, which will provide greater detail. One service that the agency provides is its Adult Services Program. This is a comprehensive program for 95 Philadelphians, most of them 24-hour, 7 day a week support to be able to successfully live in an inclusive environment as a vibrant part of our City of Philadelphia. Fifty-five of these 38 Resolution 980676 individuals spent a large portion of their childhood and young adult years in the Pennhurst State School. As a result of litigation, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania chose to close that institution and return 554 individuals to their home community of Philadelphia. The City's Department of Health through the County Office for Mental Health and Mental Retardation accepted responsibility for this task. SPIN actually began providing residential care in 1981, but it wasn't until the close Pennhurst State School that SPIN became a major provider of residential care in 1987. Currently, the agency's Adult Services Program supports 45 homes located in the Northeast community. Four individuals reside in family support programs. Some 250 staff members provide support for the individuals who participate in this program. If more information on this matter is required, we will be glad to provide it to your committee. We apologize for the compilation nature of this testimony and related materials, but we only received invitation to testify before the Committee on Monday, December 7, 1998. 39 Resolution 980676 If there is anything that I can bring to the committee, it is my commitment and the commitment of our agency that people with mental retardation are human beings deserving of every opportunity to live lives with all the freedoms that we enjoy as Americans in a manner consistent with the mainstream of society. In 1994, the City of Philadelphia and the County Office of Mental Health and Mental Retardation adopted a values-based approach to the provision of these services. Again, a copy of this document is appended to this testimony. In these values, the City states a fundamental belief that individuals should be free to choose with whom they live, where they live, and how they live. " This document likewise expresses the needs of services to be community-based and inclusive within the community it serves to the fullest extent possible. I think at this point it makes sense to provide two examples that represent true success for people SPIN has had the opportunity and honor to support. 40 Resolution 980676 After having spent most of her childhood and all of her early adult years in the segregated restricted environment of institutions, Ruby came to SPIN in 1985 to live in a large home with four other residents and with one-to-one staff supervision 7 hours a day. Initially, we believed, due to the 8 behavioral challenges Ruby presented, that she 9 continued to require a restricted life in the 10 community. As we got to came to know Ruby, we came 11 to understand that she simply wanted to live life on 12 her own terms.
Ruby now lives in her own apartment 13 where our staff looks in on her from time to time. 14 She goes to work every day and enjoys shopping, 15 banking, going to restaurants, and a beauty salon in 16 her neighborhood. 17 SPIN recently supported three 18 Philadelphia men who chose to move out of the 19 institution located in the Scranton area. The men 20 have adjusted beautifully to community life and to 21 their home in Castor Gardens. All three of the men 22 now have competitive jobs and are in a position to 23 make a contribution to society. This all occurred 24 within a six-month time frame which is truly remarkable, considering that combined, they spent 41 Resolution 980676 over 80 years of their lives in an institution. SPIN believes all citizens with mental retardation should be guaranteed their right to live in the community of their choice. These guarantees, in the form of Federal legislation such as the Fair Housing Act and the Americans With Disability Act, provide only a legal basis. What is needed at the local level is a full understanding of the need for an inclusion life in the community as key element of the habilitation process. Individuals clearly benefit and thrive within vibrant, intact communities with resources to share. But for individuals to benefit fully from their experience, they must have the opportunity to give back to society, to contribute in their own right. It cannot be known how much of each of these individuals can contribute until they are fully accepted as citizens of this City and expected to participate in community life. We ask that you begin the act of accepting today by establishing a resolution that all individuals residing in Community Living Arrangements have the same access to living in the neighborhood of their choice as all citizens. SPIN, 42 Resolution 980676 as its responsibility, promises to continue to partnership with the City of Philadelphia to assure that all homes reflect the values of neighborhoods in which they are located. Further, SPIN assures that staff members who support individuals with mental retardation to be fully included do so in a manner respectful of all people which comprise the fabric of neighborhood life. Thank you. If you have any questions, we will be glad to try and answer them for you.
The only question I might have is SPIN pretty much does the CLA's, right? Do you have any bigger than CLA?
Family Support Living, you know, where individuals live with families in their homes. We do not serve people with mental illness as adults.
Kathleen Brown-McHale. We have one home that provides services for five individuals. It's an ICFMR. That's the largest that we have.
Now, let me -- I'm 43 Resolution 980676 trying to think of questions that some of my colleagues would ask you, and I know a couple of them asked me some questions to ask you. They just couldn't be here. Say you have a place somewhere in the Northeast, because that's where you're from, right?
And you have a problem -- well, not a problem, but the neighbors are complaining about things that may or may not happen. So basically if it's a CLA, there's somebody living with them, right?
And the people that live in this house probably go out every day mostly to work hopefully?
Yes. Most of them go to a day service for work or more increasingly they have been programing for individuals with severe mental incapacity from their home. But they do go out every day, yes.
So if you get calls from neighbors, eventually they're going get to you, 44 Resolution 980676 they'll get to the local officials and they get to you and say, "Look, when the people leave, the people in that house are playing basketball out front, making noises, smoking marijuana," whatever, horror stories which probably don't exist but they my exist. How do you handle that? Would you possibly get rid of the people?
Or do you just figure, you know, the neighbors are all nuts because they don't want us here or --
We absolutely look at that. And we are a unionized agency and we have rules and union is in supportive disciplining and we have progressive disciplining. The example by your own admission is a far-out situation. When our people leave the home, generally staff are assigned to go with them so there is usually no one left back in the house with the exception of maybe a housekeeper on something like that. Staff are 45 Resolution 980676 assigned. I think the monitoring and the infrastructure of the agency with its supervisors, its managers, its associate, its cooperate officers maintain or absolutely control the behavior of staff. We have found that many communities do not oppose so much the people with mental retardation living in the community, but it is the behavior of staff that is disrespectful, it is not consistent with the values of the neighborhood, they may be loud when they get picked up from a shift they blow their horn at midnight, these are the kinds of things that the agency responds to and responds to very quickly. And I think since 1981 with 45 homes, almost every one of those homes living rather nicely and certain times in environments where neighbors would just barely be giving us a chance. So I think we do respond to that. And one of the major situations that occurred when we brought people back from institutions into vibrant communities is the community could see how society was caring for people with mental retardation. When we had them in nice settings far away from the Cities and their 46 Resolution 980676 family, we didn't really know what was happening there. We like to believe that the community is eyes-on with us and they are additional help for us at monitoring whether the house is working or not. And that's something that we have to admit, and sometimes it's not difficult, it is extremely difficult within the agency to uphold those values that -- if we destroy a community, if we destroy a neighborhood we destroyed what we were searching for. So the belief has to be it's a two-way street here. And we're not perfect; believe me. We have 250 staff in this particular unit. Most of them are supervised between 30 and 40 percent of time on the job, but they can't be supervised a hundred percent of the time.
So the perfect scenario would be where the neighbors basically nothing happens and they wouldn't even know you're perfect.
No, the perfect scenario would be a neighborhood supports the home and we support the neighbors and things like that, and we're helpful in that regard. And we have those neighborhoods. 47 Resolution 980676
Where possibly we know this is a different kind of family, it's a family like us, it's different. I think some of the problem is people get so offended because they see it as a business in the residential community.
When we talk about home-life and life in that community, we really work very much to just have that house function with a minimum of activity related to the family finances, such as any family would have to cope with in its community. It is not a business. These are the people's homes. Our staff are visitors to those homes providing those individuals living there with the support they need to live individually. And I think the value and the culture of our agency constantly is going at that. For an agency that grew out of its Northeast community, and I've been here since Day One, I think the situation clearly shows a respect for that community. That community is the most important resource that we can give an individual who has these needs. So we're not out to destroy them.
Thank you. Do you have anything to say? 48 Resolution 980676
Beverly Berfield. Would you say your name for the record.
Hello. My name is Beverly Berfield. It's spelled B-E-R-F-I-E-L-D. I want to thank you for inviting me to testify here today. I was not provided enough time to prepare a written letter to explain my family's experiences with the group house next door to us.
1237 Glenview Street is my address. And the group house is located at 1235 Glenview Street.
Beverly, for the people who don't know the City that well, explain where Glenview Street is. It's in the Northeast?
It's in the Castor Gardens area in Northeast Philadelphia. Before I begin, I want to say I know signs will probably go up in a few minutes because I 49 Resolution 980676 oppose to this in Northeast Philadelphia. I think it's unfair when community members and neighbors of group houses try to speak they're slapped on the wrist or told shut up or you could be slapped with a lawsuit for discrimination. I think it's very unfair to families with children. I'm not trying to ramble on, but I'm simply a mother trying to protect my children and our home. I don't understand how the organizations can justify five group homes or houses, I should say, within a four block radius.
No, they're different organizations but SPIN currently operates two group houses within two blocks.
Next door to me, yes. I don't know if you want me to touch on my personal experience.
Listen, you're going to be able to say whatever needs to be said here because we have to hear both sides, and if anybody's going to sue us, sue us. I mean, you 50 Resolution 980676 can't get blood from a stone, you know. What I need you to do is just say what the problems are to you and why you came down here to testify for something that's probably not popular.
Well, I would like to describe an incident that occurred October 21st next door to my home where one of the residents had freaked out. We were bringing groceries into our home. My son saw the whole thing. The police were called. The police came. It took five officers on the scene, two cars, and a van. There were three trained staff in the home at the time, two direct staff and one driver.
Beverly, not to interrupt you, but explain what freaked out means for the record.
One of the residents was in the foyer. We screeching cries. We didn't know what it was. My husband said something's going on over there. It got louder and louder. They kept bringing this groceries. I called my son in the house. We heard punching and banging and thumbing. It sounded like being thrown against the wall. 51 Resolution 980676
You could hear this outside in our common path because our houses are situated where all of our entrances face each other. We're right across the path. There's nothing dividing homes. We have to share the walkway.
But did they come outside? Was anything happening outside or was this stuff you heard inside?
This was inside. But through the door, my husband saw what had happened inside the home. I was very upset at the time. The police officers were very nice. The resident was not taken out of the facility. The police somehow calmed down the situation and it did escalate until they got there, until the police arrived. To this day I've questioned what happened in that house next door since my son seen and heard it. I would like to know what happened in that home. If this is a typical family home, I mean three staffs could not control one resident. What is wrong here? These are facilities are placed among children. I know they don't freak out all the time. I know they can 52 Resolution 980676 refuse their medication. But when they do, who's there for the children? I heard Estelle Richman say that, you know, Public Health Department represents the communities for mental retardation mental health. I believe the Public Health Department represents the children of Philadelphia, too. Who's standing here for the kids who are seeing this?
I'd like to think that's what we're here for, for everyone.
I want to present two letters to hand out to City Council. One is to the Northeast Times explaining the incident. The other one is to Capt. Charles Brown of the 2nd Police District. I requested additional information from them as well, and I have not received anything yet. This apparent meltdown is gone, vanished, erased from everyone's minds except for my family's. I want to know what happened there that day.
Beverly, let me just ask you a question. And correct me -- I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. You don't really know what happened there that day?
I know someone was out of 53 Resolution 980676 control in there. I know which one was out of control because we saw which resident it was through the door.
Do you see these residents most of the time outside or is there ever a problem?
They're usually with staff, but a few days after the incident occurred it was very strange because the residents don't usually put out the trash, the staff does. A few days after this incident occurred, the resident that freaked out was now being taught to put out the trash. It was like a slap in face that, see, nothing is wrong with him. Now, I'm not trying to discriminate because if it was my child that was mentally disabled, I would need support, too. I wouldn't want my child to -- 54 Resolution 980676
If I hear what 9 you're saying, it's like the fear of the unknown 10 what's happening in there? 11
So you think if the 14 police could tell you exactly what happened that 15 day, that would make you feel better? Or you think 16 there will always be something like that? I'm not 17 trying placate you, I'm just trying to see what it 18 is we can do. Did you ever talk to SPIN? 19
Yes, I did. I talked to 20 Ann Durante on the night of the incident approximately 45 minutes after it happened. I was very, very upset. I told her what happened, that it happened around 6:30. Nothing. I returned phone calls and I did not get one. And to make matters worse when you do 55 Resolution 980676 oppose a group house, you see the staff isn't really your neighbor; the three mentally disabled men are. But, you see, I can't prove who did this, but this just happened. I get writing on my car, "Don't push." So if you oppose this, you will be crushed.
Yes, I did. Officer Star, he didn't write a report. He was on his bicycle the day I found this, and I told him about it and he said to me, "You're in a bad situation. I suggest you get security alarm for house."
Listen, nobody loves cops as much as I do, but they're not lawyers so when somebody does something to you or your property, you have to call 911 so there's an incident and there's a follow-up by a police officer and a detective because just grabbing a cop running down the street doesn't work.
No. He said you don't 56 Resolution 980676 have any proof who has done that.
I just want to say for the record that Councilman David Cohen is at the table now.
For the incident that occurred that evening, the cops were there. I called. The next day I went to look at the incident report. It said, "Minor disturbance between above and below. Adjusted by the police". My family has to pay $15 to receive a copy of this, but it's useless. There is no where on there, no documentation that says group house. How many incidents have occurred? I want to ask some questions for the record. Why is this incident not acknowledged and covered up? How many on other incidents have been covered up? I want to know how many other incidents have occurred, and how many other children have been exposed to these minor disturbances, and who makes the decisions? The community doesn't, City Council isn't aware of these homes, you are not aware of the home going next door to me, Councilman Mariano. You were not aware because at the meeting --
That's right. I want to know why hasn't anyone considered all the segments of the community? You cannot only look at one segment of the community's needs, which is the CLA's. They're only looking at that group houses needs, not the entire community. And how do you justify five CLA's within a four-block area? They're my questions. How is five justified within four blocks?
I think that your questions are certainly justified. I can't answer them, I don't know if other councilpeople here, Councilwoman Tasco's here now again. I don't think they can answer them. Does anyone from SPIN want to come back up and answer, or would you rather do that in private afterward?
From now on, though, when an incident happens, don't stop a policeman going down the street, call 911. Then there's a record.
Excuse me. My name is Fred Berfield and this is my wife Beverly. And 58 Resolution 980676 this is kinds of attitudes that we've been dealing with for the last six months where everything is just somehow lost or we don't know, we forgot. There's just nothing.
Fred, not to interrupt you, but we've got the guy that runs SPIN. Let him come back to the table and answer that question. And believe me, we understand your frustrations and maybe if that's one thing that comes out of these hearings we can figure out is at least get information to you and vice versa.
In reference to the incident that occurred, there are certain things that we can share and certain things we cannot share because of confidentiality and things like that. I knew of the incident, we're aware of that. I believe the police were called not by SPIN personnel. The individuals that we support are there for a reason; they need that support. This occurred within three or four months of them moving down. They do have incidents where this will 59 Resolution 980676 happen. Often times the incident, rather the than restrain the individual, is just to have the individual have it run its course, make sure they're not doing harm to themselves for sure, make sure there's not extensive property damage that can hurt them or hurting any staff or hurting, certainly, anyone out in the community.
Mr. Losinno, after something like this happens, would you ever call the Berfields and say, "Look, I can't tell you what happened because of attorney/client privileges or whatever, but I just want you to know that we know you're there and we know it's a problem and we're trying the best that we can to do."
In this particular case, I believe Ms. Berfield did talk to Ann Durante, our staff member at the time, and I don't know the content of that conversation. But certainly if that content of that conversation was inadequate, she certainly knew that Ann Durante has a supervisor. She certainly knows Kathy Brown-McHale. And that is the only way we can go back and monitor the quality of interactions between staff and family. I don't think I can bring myself to say 60 Resolution 980676 every time we have an incident, we should go out and tell the neighbors. Sometimes the neighbors say "we understand." Sometimes they say, "Yeah, kept me up all night." Sometimes they're not pleased with that. But I think the situation really warrants that if there is dissatisfaction in that regard, there is whole series of ways that people can say, "That's not good enough. I need to know more." And we will give as much information as we possibly being in fairness to everyone.
So what would you tell this committee and the Berfields? Whatever happened, happened. We all learn by that. But say something happens again. Should she call you directly?
She a call Kathy Brown, she could call me directly. Unfortunately, if she calls me, I'm going to say I have to talk to Kathy Brown-McHale to get the information. Why don't we start there or start with the director of that region. There should be a relationship. I don't understand the graffiti. I can't imagine one of our staff would go do that, but listen, I have a lot of staff. And a lot of times 61 Resolution 980676 people do goofy things. It would have been nice that we were notified that that had occurred and told could we investigate that. There are things we could do immediately that could have been responsible for that. Calling the police often times will not involve them contacting us for handling something like this. But a call to us saying this happened would be something of very serious nature. We would know who was on the shift, who was there, what happened, how this came to be, did anybody see anything and those kinds of things. We're not here really, as I said before, to upset apple carts. We're in the perfect. We're trying our very best to do things. The individuals that we serve, they're there for a reason, and we are there to try and assist that those outbursts become less. I can assure that to the best of our extent no one ever will be hurt, but we can't guarantee that. This is something that I have to face in my own family with my own kids growing up being part of this agency. It is a risk that I think we need to take but we have to be assured that we're doing everything possible. I don't know what 62 Resolution 980676 else I can say.
Mr. Losinno, you're sitting next the Berfields now. This is the first time I've ever met you today. This is the first time I've met Mr. Berfield. I've met Mrs. Berfield before. And they're really pissed. I'll bet you Mr. Berfield's a blue collar worker, he's probably got all his money tied up into this house and for some reason, real or in his mind, something's going on next door and he can't probably function -- I don't want him out there on the streets, whatever he does for a living, not being able to function so something happens and he can't raise his family. We need to have some kind of community interaction with neighbors. Is it just the Berfields, are there other neighbors, is there other things going on there?
I think there was adequate dialog. I think one of the concerns why your office was not notified why the processes that SPIN has used since 1981 that was developed by Councilman O'Neill was not worked was because a staff member sold that house to the agency and the information came out in the neighborhood -- 63 Resolution 980676
So they were looking for a quick out and they let you guys have it?
I don't think it was a quick out. It was a house that met our needs, it was a house that was necessary at that time.
If that was just a regular house, would you have been on that street or was it just because it was available and it met your needs?
No, I don't think it was just because it was available. It was a house that was brought to our attention. A lot of houses are brought to our attention. People know we purchase houses. At the time that we did this, we didn't think there was anything out of the ordinary. The person got a fair market appraisal, we got a fair 64 Resolution 980676 market appraisal, the house has been financed by the bank, the house didn't sell for lots of dollars, they didn't save tons of money. None of that kind of stuff happened. The unfortunate thing happened was that it's at the point where the agreement of sale is signed that, you know, we notified the next door neighbors. The whole thing came out long before that happened because the person was a neighbor in the community. I think that's probably part of the problem. And we're willing to sit down and work with people and do things and acknowledge perhaps errors that we made in that regard. But I don't thing SPIN ever shied away from meeting with anybody or talking with anybody.
I just want to ask you a question before other councilpeople do, and I hope you don't think I'm being fresh, but I guess Councilpeople can be fresh sometimes. Where do you live at?
I'll ask you later how you're registered and all -- but no, seriously, would you live on that street? Would you feel comfortable living in the Berfields' house?
No, and I'm telling you the truth. When people would move in, when homes would move next to me, my first questions would be not about who are the clients, what's their problems, what's their dangers. My questions would be who is agency, what do they do, are they responsible. You talked about agencies that open for business, don't have any qualifications. I would 66 Resolution 980676 not tolerate that. I would not tolerate that. We have a group home down the street from us. It works very nicely by COMAR. It operates nicely. Initially, I had grave concern about the home on Oxford Avenue. I understand the details about that now. Again, if I would have to say, gee, have a home with people next to me, I probably would say 9 no. But at this point in time having spoken with 10 Matthew Alabongle (ph), spoken with Mike Covone, 11 spoken with Kathy Seichs (ph), I think the reality 12 is that we all have to shoulder some of this 13 responsibility. It's not perfect, it's not great; 14 but I think the agency is responsibly meeting what 15 it needs to do so that those people have a chance in 16 a continuum so that they can be returned to full functioning in the community. As a professional, I have to say that that's what we do.
Would you be willing to interact with the Berfields if that's possible?
I would like to speak to that. I would just like to quote one thing. At the end of one of our meetings, I believe it was in 67 Resolution 980676 Northeast Times Newspaper. Kathy had said, "There's fears until they have their cultural experience. I've been dealing with these meetings for ten years."
Well, why hasn't anyone done anything about this in ten years? Come on. You got kids here. I have an 8-year-old son that is exposed to things that he don't understand, and I want his innocence to remain innocent. You cannot just dump these people in the communities on top of children. You cannot do it. Children, they don't understand.
Mrs. Berfield, again, that is opinion, but you're looking at a man who made a very different decision. I've raised five children. I don't shelter my kids from problems legitimate problems that people have, and as they aged and asked the questions, I tried to respond to it. But again, that situation is something that each of us individually has to respond to in our own conscience. I can't tell you what's right for you or your family. I can only say what I have done. 68 Resolution 980676 And I have to say that the way we do things, the way we operate, we take every consideration that child will never be hurt, child will never wonder into the home. The people in that home are not naturally aggressive. They will act out, but that doesn't mean it's a directed aggression. And all I can go on is what I've done over 30 years professionally. And I believe that that home is safe, the staff are competent. And if the individual does have an outburst, it will be contained so no one can be hurt.
I know there's NO 14 guarantees. If a child hurt, for the record, who is responsible, the non-profit agency, the City, the State? Who's responsible? Who's responsible for $50,000 of psychiatric counseling for the child that don't understand this? I want to know who is responsible. These are the answers that the community wants.
Beverly, I hear your questions, and I can't answer them.
I know. That's why I want them on the record so we know. I've asked many people. No one knows these answers. 69 Resolution 980676
That's we have hearings. And the two council people who have been here long before I did probably want to say something, but this all gets out now and maybe we'll hear other things. I appreciate everybody coming here today. We've got a lot more people to, so are there any questions for any of these witness from my colleagues?
I have one more question for the record. I am officially requesting the 990 from SPIN today, so it's on record. Because it's my understanding --
The 990 is the tax return that is required by non-profit agencies to file with the government.
Mr. Losinno, is there a problem with getting that to her?
First of all, you're not allowed to refuse. Have we ever had a request for a 990 from her?
Does she have to do it in writing or anything? 70 Resolution 980676
No, she doesn't have to do it in writing. She just presents herself, we'll give her the 990. If she doesn't even want to come into SPIN, she doesn't even have to do that. All you have to do is go to the IRS office, they'll produce it for you. There's a question on the 990 that says have you ever refused to give your 990. Matter of fact, I distribute it to the task force our annual report that has all the audited numbers from the 990.
Yes, it will be my pleasure. But again, it shouldn't have been an issue. You should have just requested it and we would have given it to you.
We're not all very sophisticated, and not that the Berfields aren't. A lot of people are busy raising their kids and going to work and being police, firemen, construction workers. They're not all as educated as you are. A lot of people in this room -- this is your field, your specially. I'd like to talk to you about putting in a hundred amp service in; you may 71 Resolution 980676 not know anything about that. There's probably something Mr. Berfield can do that you and I couldn't do. I mean, that's the beauty of this place. Mr. Berfield.
This is what you do for a living. You get paid to do what you do. My question to you is you've raised your family and you think it would be okay to raise it next to group a home. Have you? Have you raised family --
I've never had the opportunity to have my neighbor sell their house for a group home.
Mr. Berfield, that may just be schematics where he happens to live.
I'm just saying, my neighbor worked for SPIN. And why is it that that's okay? You understand what I'm trying to say here?
I believe I understand. 72 Resolution 980676 The house was offered for sale and she asked us if we would be interested. We looked at the house, it met the needs. We opened four houses that year. It's very typical of the communities that we open houses in. There was nothing extraordinary about this house. In answer to your question, no, I've never had to live next door to a group home. Would I? Yes, I would, provided the questions that I had asked about whose group, whose management, and what it is that's happening there and is the agency responsible.
Why is it that all these people who tell us we're wrong about the way we feel, none of them live next to it?
Mr. Berfield, I tried not to say that you were wrong. I tried to say that it's your judgment.
What I'm trying to say is everybody judges us as bigots. And I'm not saying that you called us a bigot, but in the papers and in the past we have been considered bigots. And I know just standing here today opposing this in some small way people walk away thinking that we are bigots. 73 Resolution 980676 But this is the mentality of the people that we speak to. It insures if you make over a certain amount of money and you live within at the City -- and what I'm trying to say is if you're part of the agency, it insures the fact that you'll never have to raise your family next to one. You can go to them and say, "No, don't buy that house."
Mr. Losinno, we have a lot more witnesses. You guys definitely have different philosophies on this subject so we could be like the Jerry Springer Show if we keep going on. Councilman, do you have something you want to say?
I was just going to say as an attorney I would just like to briefly put on the record what I understand about the questions raised by the person testifying as who is responsible. The law is clear. First, anybody has a right to buy a house anywhere in the City. When there are less than four people in the house, there is no zoning restriction whatever in any part of the residential area. As to who is responsible if 74 Resolution 980676 something happens, for anybody to make somebody else responsible under the law you have to prove somebody did you wrong in the sense of being negligent. If the agency was negligent and not taking care of the situation, they would be subject to suit. If they took every legal protection that a court or jury would say was reasonable under all the circumstances, then your lawsuit would fail. Nobody can be responsible for anything unless somehow they are at fault. That's just the law. Now when we live in a society, whether we live in the City or outside the City, whether we live in poor areas, rich areas, things happen. That's a part of the people living together. It's unfortunate. I've raised four children. I live right in the heart of the community that has many of these much larger homes, not three people but minimum of or more than 20. Fortunately, we've 20 never had a tragedy. The community accepts a portion of the responsibility, but what we ask is that agencies like the one that Mr. Losinno works for try to distribute things equally over the area and not take advantage of lower income areas where real estate prices are lowest. What we try to do is 75 Resolution 980676 to say there ought to be some mechanism so that -- because we know that price is always a consideration for non-profit organizations, we are trying to find some mechanism that will result in fairly distributing homes like these that society needs over everywhere. It is one of the problems of civilization. We all have a responsibility, but the burden has to be shared freely. Now, it may not be a satisfactory answer, but nobody under the law would have the right, a democracy would never permit a government to say that people who need care must be eliminated from the community or must not be allowed to live near anybody else. That's the nature of a democratic institution. But people are protected in the neighborhood that reasonable precautions must be taken. If the people need care, the people that may later inflicted damage, if they need care, the non-profit organization has to show that it took the necessary steps. Now, I don't know if that helps you or not, but it's a difficult situation throughout every area. In my own community we have complaints. We just hope day by day that there are no problems. 76 Resolution 980676 And if there are, I think advice given by the Chair to replace immediately. And if anybody ever gets information about a home that you don't know in advance, we would like to be told by you so we can get into the situation as quickly as possible and offer every assistance.
Councilman Cohen, you mentioned that you can't keep them out of the community; I'm not here for that. I'm here for the agencies to be a little more selective in the locations they choose. I have been told that our area is now considered saturated. Where does that leave our area?
We're opposed to that. But I can tell you there are many areas in different parts the City that feel their area is saturated. Where I live in West Oak Lane, the neighbors feel strongly they're saturated. We have all kinds of homes, as I indicated not just three people units, but much larger homes where people walk around. Just by looking at them you know they're in the in full possession of all their faculties. We have homes for the people substance abusers, who are trying to find a way maybe to 77 Resolution 980676 return to normal living. But that's part of society's problems today. All of us have to accept the burden. But what we've got to demand from these non-profit groups and these others minister to people who need help is that they accept their responsibility. I think you've seen from Mr. Losinno who, as far as I know, I've never met before. He seems to be responsible, and I think he has an open attitude. And if you inform us in City Council of any situation, you're going to have our full cooperation. We're going to be working to get all the non-profits to distribute these kind of facilities equitably throughout the City, find some financial mechanism so that the upper income areas of the city have the same kind of population, you know, distribution as lower income. Because I think it's very unfair to have these places selected here and there and have whole other areas with nobody of that nature living there because the prices are too high and the agencies can't buy houses. We will all work with you. It's a very difficult problem. City Council, you know, we learn often, we can't solve all problems, but we try to 78 Resolution 980676 work out adjustments. And we are very appreciative of your problems and wish you didn't have them and we want to work in every way if we can to avoid them.
Yes. What we would like to bring to your attention, we had already brought the attention of Councilperson Marian Tasco. When they first moved in, we were also not aware in the neighborhood that --
Ma'am, could you tell us your address and address of the facility you're talking about?
The facility IS 6508 North 79 Resolution 980676 Tenth Street. That's in East Oak Lane.