COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING - COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, June 7, 2005, 1:30 p.m. BILL NO. 050384 PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN JOAN KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN JUAN F. RAMOS COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN TASCO COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I
Good afternoon. The Committee on License and Inspection is now in session. Will the clerk please read the number of the bill.
Bill 050384, an Ordinance enacting a new Section 9-213 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Farmers' Markets," and amending Section 9-203 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Street Vendors," Section 9-204 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Sidewalk Vendors in Center City," and Section 9-205 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Sidewalk Sales," to provide for the licensing and regulation of Farmers' Markets throughout the City of Philadelphia, all under certain terms and conditions.
Thank you. Good afternoon. Please state your name for the record from the Administration.
Good day, Councilwoman Krajewski and members of the committee. I am Otis Haigler, Jr., Director of Legislative Affairs for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. Today I am here to provide testimony on Bill 050384, which, if enacted, will add a new Section 9-213 to the Philadelphia Code to regulate Farmers Markets in the City. The intent of this amendment will be to codify informal agreements that have been made in the past related to the operations of farmers' markets in the City and to allow for their continued operation in designated areas subject to continued compliance with this section. The Department understands that proposed amendments will be offered for clarification purposes and to address concerns we have raised. In light of such amendments, the Department offers no objections to enactment of Bill 050384 as amended. Thank you for the opportunity to 4 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I provide testimony on this bill and I'll be happy to answer any questions at this time.
Thank you. Any questions from members of the committee? Councilman Clarke.
Mr. Haigler, currently are there any regulations that are related to vending; i.e., farmers' markets in place within the City of Philadelphia?
Yes. We have a law that was enacted last year. It was you as the sponsor. You sponsored an ordinance last year to permit such activity at Rittenhouse Square.
There was a 5 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I Sunset Provision in that law that expires this year. So with this ordinance being passed, this will extend that operation, as well as all the other operations that are mentioned in the ordinance or other locations in the ordinance.
Okay. I just wanted to get a sense. But we have no 10 general provisions similar to what we currently have for traditional sidewalk vendors throughout the City of Philadelphia?
No, we do not. We would probably generally treat them as vendors, but with informal agreements that have been entered into in the past, we separated or designated them as farmers' markets.
Any other questions from members of the committee? 6 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I (No response.)
Is there someone else here for or against this bill to testify? Come forward. Don't be frightened. Good afternoon, gentlemen.
Who is going to begin? Please state your name for the record.
My name is Brian Lang. I'm a project coordinator for The Food Trust. Am I free to begin?
Good afternoon, Council members and guests. As I said, my name is Brian Lang and I manage the farmers' market program for The Food Trust. We're a Philadelphia-based non-profit group that works 7 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I to improve access to healthy food in low-income communities and provide nutrition education in schools. I am here today to discuss the farmers' market ordinance 6 introduced by Councilman Clarke, as well as the amendment that has been offered to this ordinance. Our main interest is to ensure that the final version of the ordinance contains nothing to impede the growth of farmers' markets that has taken root in Philadelphia. We are concerned that some of the proposed regulations and fees may have the unintended consequence of forcing existing farmers' markets to close, preventing new markets from opening or resulting in fines for farmers who already struggle to make a living. The Food Trust was founded in 1992 with the mission of opening farmers' markets in areas of the City where residents had difficulty obtaining healthy food like fresh fruits and vegetables. We now operate farmers' markets in 12 Philadelphia locations in places like West Oak Lane, Center City, 8 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I University City, West Philadelphia, Fairmount, Fishtown, Germantown and Northeast Philadelphia. There is no question that these markets improve the health of residents by providing nutritious great-tasting fresh fruits and vegetables. These markets also help to revitalize communities. I invite all Council members to visit a Food Trust farmers' market, perhaps our Clark Park farmers' market on Saturdays at 43rd and Baltimore, and just witness the transformative effect these markets have on the neighborhood. The Food Trust tries to address food access issues on a number of levels. In the early '90s, Philadelphia was second to last of major American cities in supermarkets per capita. The Food Trust has been working to improve this problem. We embarked on a $40 million initiative with Governor Rendell and the state legislature to open supermarkets in underserved neighborhoods. This initiative has enjoined strong support from City Council. 9 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I We have opened the first supermarket in South Philadelphia on Island Avenue and we have other projects in the pipeline at 48th and Brown, Progress Plaza and more. As a result, the food access picture is improving in Philadelphia, but we still have a long way to go. Even with the growth in supermarket development, farmers' markets play a vital role in bringing healthy food into neighborhoods where fresh food is scarce. The ordinance on farmers' markets being discussed today sets some common-sense regulations to protect citizens from any problems associated with farmers' markets. We are certainly not opposed to common-sense regulations. However, I do want to note that we have rarely received a complaint about any of our farmers' markets, and to the contrary, we receive many, many requests each year to open farmers' markets in communities that have poor access to healthy food. The requests come from citizens who want to revitalize their communities, from seniors who want to use their farmers' market vouchers and from 10 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I food stamp recipients who need access to fresh fruits and vegetables. In fact, The Food Trust is one of the only organizations in the country that is successfully pioneering wireless EBT access at farmers' markets so that food stamp recipients can purchase healthy fresh fruits and vegetable in that neighborhood. This year we are opening two new markets, one at 3rd and Poplar in Northern Liberties and one at 52nd and Haverford. We are concerned that some of the regulations that have been proposed for this ordinance 15 would create unnecessary burdens on opening more new markets in future years.
For instance, the ordinance contains a list of permissible locations for farmers' markets consisting of the locations where markets currently exist. This would make new legislation necessary to open a farmers' market. In the past, The Food Trust has worked with community groups and local elected officials to ensure that a community supported 11 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I a farmers' market in their neighborhood. We think that the ordinance should instead require that new locations receive approval from the Councilmember from the appropriate district. We also think that the fee structure proposed is unnecessarily high. We requested a waiver from the fee as a non-profit providing a needed service to City residents. The City of Philadelphia has never contributed any funds to our farmers' market program. This is a program that is improving public health by preventing malnutrition and obesity and revitalizing low-income communities. We think a nominal flat fee of $100 to $250 for farmers' market operators would be a better solution than some of the larger fee structures that have been proposed. We hope that Councilmembers will continue that the lower fees, the more funds will be available for us to expand access to healthy food for more City residents. In closing, I would like to add that cities around the country are looking at 12 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I Philadelphia as a model for how to successfully operate farmers' markets. With the rise of the obesity epidemic and the sprawl of suburbs pulling economic activity away from the urban centers, farmers' markets are seen as a way to improve citizens' health and quality of life. We respectfully ask that the Council tread very carefully on a system that has performed remarkably well for the last 12 years and which serves a vital public 13 interest. We are eager to see the final 14 version of this ordinance and hope that it 15 will serve not only to regulate farmers' markets but also to ensure that they continue to flourish. Thank you and I will be happy to answer any questions.
Thank you very much. Anyone else to testify? Thank you very much gentlemen. Oh, one more.
My name is Bob 13 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I Pierson. Good afternoon, Councilpersons. I'm Program Director for Farm to City, and our mission is to unite communities, families and farmers year round through local good food. Urban markets are as old as civilization and play an important part in the formation of cities in the civic life of its citizens. Today seasonal farmers' markets reflect these origins and provide a civilized and democratic gathering place for people to meet and purchase agricultural products for their region. In 1996, there was one outdoor farmers' market. My friends and I started this market, South and Passyunk Farmers' Market, in June of that year. This year marks its tenth season. Today there are over outdoor 20 farmers' market in Philadelphia. Farm to City will operate nine of these, the Food Trust the remainder. In my years with The Food Trust, I planned and managed seven outdoor farmers' markets in Philadelphia, Camden and Chester before starting Farm to City in 2000. These 14 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I markets and many other links to local farmers by restaurants and institutions are laying the foundation for our future food supply, as energy costs increase and centralized industrial food sources become more vulnerable and high energy prices and terroristic acts. The bill before you is the expression of ten years of work by myself and many others to bring fresh produce and other products from local farms to Philadelphia's diverse neighborhoods. This bill codifies the experience of Farm to City, The Food Trust and our local partners and City agencies that regulate outdoor sales. Together we have applied these years of cooperation to create the bill before you today, which creates a new section of The Philadelphia Code for outdoor farmers' markets. Last year City Council supported Farm to City's efforts to start a farmers' market in Rittenhouse Square by passage of Bill 040400. This bill is the model in which the bill before you is drafted. I'd like to comment on some of the 15 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I testimony by The Food Trust. This legislation I believe is needed. The fee structure can be what it is, whatever Council deems it to be in the public interest. However, I make a strong proviso on that that whatever fee it is apply equally to profit and non-profit. I am a small business person and I do not want the competition for exactly the same service by a non-profit that would claim a lower fee for providing public service that I'm providing. It just simply has to be a level playing field, and I can live with that. Now, on behalf of Farm to City and its thousands of farmers' market customers and supporters in many Philadelphia communities, I wholeheartedly endorse this bill to you and will follow your guidance on the fee structure, and recommend that the committee send this bill to City Council for its first reading. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Pierson. Mr. Haigler, can you also come up to the witness stand? I may want to ask you a 16 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I couple of questions. First, I'd like to commend all of you for bringing healthy and fresh food to the City of Philadelphia. We appreciate the service that you bring to some of the neighborhoods who traditionally would not have such service. So I want to say that I commend you for that. I do have a couple of questions for Mr. Lang as it relates to your reference to non-profit status. I just want to get some clarity. Is it your contention that as a non-profit you should not have to be regulated or is it simply the fee structure that is proposed, or is it both?
I think maybe it's a little bit of both, but certainly we'd like to address the fee structure first and foremost, just because we feel that we are a non-profit providing a City service. As such, I mean, there are cities across the country that actually fund their farmers' markets, and for us to be in a position where we'd be sort of charged money to operate farmers' markets I 17 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I think is sort a reversal of that equation.
So I'm assuming that there is a fee associated with your produce? I mean, you're not giving this away for free.
Yes. We charge our farmers a stall fee. It's a very nominal percentage of their sales and it really doesn't even go towards covering all of the costs of the program.
I'm assuming there's a cost associated with that, right?
I'm assuming there's a cost associated with the sale of the produce to the customer?
I'm not sure I understand what cost you mean. I mean, the City -- they sell the products for a cost, 18 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I but, I mean, they're also already paying business privilege taxes on that, too.
A point of order, if I can. Non-profits do not pay business privilege taxes, Councilman. Title 19, 19-2601, if you look at that, which defines what a business is, and I have a copy of that with me for the committee and the Chair, if I can read that. 19-2601 defining what a business is, it says "carrying on or exercising for gain or profit within a city of the first class, any trade business, including financial business as hereinafter defined, profession, vocation or commercial activity, including the partial or complete liquidation," so forth and so on, but under the exemption requirements under Subsection 1 of that same section where we find an exemption, "any business conducted by a non-profit corporation or association or association organized for religious, charitable or educational purposes, the business of any political subdivision, or of any authority created thereunder," they're not 19 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I classified as a business or a business entity. And if you go to 2602, 19-2602, requiring the business privilege license, they wouldn't be classified as a business, because license only applies to anything classified as a business as defined in the 19-2601.
If I could just comment. I'm John Wideman also with The Food Trust. We know we don't pay a business privilege tax as a non-profit. Actually, I had a conversation with Steve Massers just the other day where he thought that non-profits did, and we explained that we absolutely do not. What we do do is pay the taxes for the farmers. We organized an entity to pay the taxes. I'm not sure if it's the privilege tax or the sales tax, but these farmers are paying taxes. In terms of your question about should we be regulated as a non-profit, absolutely, we should be regulated. All we're 20 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I saying is that we're providing this great service to the City. We would hope that the City could waive or reduce or a flat fee, as Bob was saying, a nominal flat fee, so that we can continue to have these farmers' markets flourish in the City.
Okay. And I didn't want to get into this, but as an example, last year a farmers' market, without referencing who the operator was, opened up on Fairmount Avenue 30 feet away from a corner store that, in my estimation, provides fresh produce and has done so for as long as I can remember. Do you think it's fair that that store and its operator has to pay all fees associated with his operation of the business and a farmers' market that opened up across the street shouldn't have to pay any fees associated with that operation?
I don't know all the fees that the corner store has to pay, but, again, it's up to City Council. We're just putting forth the idea. And I don't know 21 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I what the product line is at the corner store. I don't know --
Same product line. Matter of fact, he has pictures of fruit on his sign, fruit and vegetables.
Most corner stores in Philadelphia sell mostly cigarettes, beer and junk food, but this must be a really good corner store. The Food Trust actually has another --
That's great. In general, the farmers' markets that we open, there is very poor access to fresh fruits and vegetables and the citizens are crying out for better access to fresh fruits and vegetables. Instead what they're faced with is Dunkin Donuts, McDonald's and places that are contributing to the obesity epidemic.
I'm supportive of your efforts, because I know of several locations in my district where there 22 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I was a lack of fresh produce, and I support it, but the bottom line is, you are a functioning business. There needs to be some regulations associated with that business, and if you're in business, you traditionally pay fees, just like everyone else in the City of Philadelphia, because there is a cost associated with the business that you do. So that's why we're imposing -- my understanding, and I wasn't in the negotiations but a staff member of mine, my legislative assistant, was, I believe in extensive conversations between all of you and a member of the technical staff. Some of the structures of the fees associated with this bill, my understanding is that the Department of License and Inspection wanted to have higher fees and some requirements were requested to have lower and we kind of came to some consensus on a middle number.
Actually, Councilman, if we look at other sections of The Philadelphia Code related to vending and vending activity, individual vendors pay a fee 23 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I of $250 per vendor.
It's not something where that license is transferable. That license is not combined. If the vendor has multiple locations where they have vending operations, they're paying $250 per location that they have their vending operation. What this ordinance did was, it combined locations where the farmers' markets are going to be located and it set up a particular fee structure based on a combination of multiple locations regardless of the number of farmers that are going to be located at those locations. So, in essence, it somewhat has given consideration to the farmers and the farmers' markets by reducing our fees. We've reduced our fees by not charging the individual farmer. Now, as I understood this gentleman's testimony, his testimony was that maybe we should charge them a flat fee for individual operators of $100 to $250 per operator. That would be more than what we're 24 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I charging here and we would absolutely not object to that.
I think the word choice here we're using in the ordinance is the farmers' market entity, which is the organization that does all the work, that goes out, recruits farmers to come from far away to come into the City. That's the entity that's going to be paying the fee. That was the flat fee for that. So there's really two organizations that are going to be a source of these fees, The Food Trust and Farm to City. I think Food Trust and Farm to City would both be comfortable with a nominal flat fee of 100 or 200 bucks, but if we get into these fee structures where the more farmers' markets you open, the higher you pay, I mean, it's up to Council, but how does that fit in with the City's plan to get more fresh fruits and vegetables into the City?
Mr. Haigler, 25 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I I just want to get this straight. As far as the vendors inside the farmers' markets, they do not or do pay a fee?
They do not pay a fee. They have an organizational structure. The head of their organizational structure is the one who would take out the license --
Mr. Lang, I'd like to ask you, how many vendors are in one of your -- what's the average?
Our farmers' markets span anywhere from just being a single farmer to maybe at the most 12 farmers in peak season.
And as far as they're concerned, they don't pay any fees June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I to the City individually?
I still raise that point of order. If it's non-profit, they do not pay a business privilege tax.
That's my point. The point is, as a vendor, one of your markets, are they in there for profit or are they also non-profit?
They're in there for profit, but these are people doing this as a second job sometimes. These are people who are facing a very uphill struggle to make a living.
Then they do come out with a profit then, in other words?
Again, Bob Pierson. I'd like to comment on who is getting licensed. If it's an entity that, as Mr. Haigler points out, is a business that The Food Trust has paid the taxes for the farmers, then that is the entity that should be taking out this license, not The Food Trust, which is a non-profit. That's what this suggests very strongly to me. And then for me as a business, then we're on equal footing. Now, again, whatever the -- I'm not going to get in the middle of what the fee structure is, because I've come to peace with Mr. Haigler on this, but I think whatever it is, it should be the same for whatever entities are operating our farmers' markets and have taken out that business privilege license and are paying the taxes on behalf of the farmers.
So I understand the concept, and I know that you've invited us and I'm going to accept that offer 28 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I to come visit, are you limited to produce? Is this going to become where we go and see CDs and tapes?
No. In fact, we have people come up to our farmers' markets and say, Hey, I'd like to sell this, that and the other thing, and they're refused.
There was a question. Councilman asked is it limited to fruit.
It's not limited to fruits and vegetables. We do have baked goods, dairy products and meats.
And your amendment that that will be offered will prohibit the sale of cooked food, with cooking appliances at the farmers' market. We were 29 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I going to prohibit any cooking or warming or heating of food. That's for a safety issue. That's in his amendment.
My understanding is that a number of these locations do cook food on site.
Well, that's a concern that we have from a fire safety perspective, because with cooking, you're using propane or some other fuel source, and we have to be concerned about that. So we would like to prohibit the sale or the cooking -- not the sale of cooked foods. If you cook it somewhere else and bring it there, that's fine, but we would like to prohibit the actual cooking on site of food, because we're not there all the time to make sure that that operation is safe. They are allowed to have things out there such as canopies and --
All right. The operation that was at 13th and Girard where there was chicken --
Ribs also, 30 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I Councilman?
Was that simply being warmed up or did they actually cook it on site?
I can speak to that. Bob Pierson again. That was one of my markets, 13th and Girard. It was a highly successful market with produce and a barbecue operation by an Amish farmer, and in the year, I think it was, 2003, he was selling three tons per week of barbecued chicken to the people of Philadelphia, and they loved it, and he was shut down by the Health Department. And he tried in 2004 to get back in unsuccessfully, and now he's no longer in Philadelphia. But I still get calls, When are you going to open again, we want that barbecued chicken, we want that barbecued ribs. And I think that the regulation -- it can be regulated so that it works, because people love it and there were no incidents. I 31 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I don't think it should be prohibited outright. I think it should be regulated for those points of public safety that are necessary.
I must admit, I drove by there on numerous occasions, I was tempted to get out and purchase some chicken. I was a little concerned that my picture would be taken by some of the businesses across the street and they would put that little line across me. Mr. Haigler, I'm a little concerned about the inability for some of those types of operations. Was that being cooked with coal or --
But also, Councilman, you got to understand that the Health Department has regulations also related to cooked food, cooked food items, how they have to be prepared, how they have to be covered to prevent bird droppings on the food. So there are certain things that you may have 32 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I to take into consideration that the Health Department would have to be involved in this.
Let me finish this. Would it be okay if we addressed the issue that we talk about today and then come back on that including the Health Department and maybe come up with some sort of --
Our main concern again is safety, and if we can come up with some sort of compromised solution to address the safety issues, particularly the use of any type of fuel source, propane in particular. 33 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I That's something that we definitely want to make sure that we regulate.
Electric is a good alternative. They've done that before.
Electric is a good alternative to propane, but it's obviously more expensive. I'd like to finish up. As you know, we have a significant issue before Council. We're relocating the produce market to possibly the Navy Yard. Are you assuring us that all of the produce that will be on sale will only come from farmers that actually grow it? Will they not be buying it some other place and bringing it to Philadelphia, which could affect the operation down at the Navy Yard? There's a significant operation plan there for people to buy produce. How are you assuring me that this is really stuff that was grown up in Reading, a bunch of tomatoes, and brought to your market and not coming from Chile?
Well, we have 34 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I on-site management at all of our locations. We require that our farmers sell local produce, and we additionally have done farm inspections in times past just to ensure that farmers are growing what they're selling.
We ask them not to, and we've removed items from people's tables when they were bringing it from the produce terminal in South Philadelphia.
I can confirm what Brian has said, that I have tossed farmers out of farmers markets when I discovered that they are selling tomatoes from Florida in one instance, and I have strong words with others when I believe that their produce is coming from other than the local areas. We do allow, we call them, gaps in the market for a farmer to bring in something from a neighbor, but it has to be a neighbor and we have -- I have some very strong trust relationships with most of these farmers. There's a couple of them that push the 35 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I envelope and we watch them like hawks.
Will you be competing, will any of the restaurants and other -- forgive me for not knowing all the terms here. Will people be coming that own restaurants to shop at these facilities and not go to the food distribution center?
I see it as a different marketplace. The restaurants want the freshest produce available for what they are serving their customers. Some restaurants do and some of them are, and there's a movement in Philadelphia to get, it's called the Fair Food Project, to get restaurants to buy from local farmers because of the quality of the products that they offer. The chefs that wish to go to the food distribution can, but the ones I think should have the freedom to go to local farmers and get theirs either directly on the farm or through farmers' markets or other distribution methods into Philadelphia.
That's a good question, but, I mean, I think for the 36 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I immediate future, the amount of produce being bought by restaurants to be prepared and sold at the restaurants is just going to be very small. I don't see it as being a significant percentage any time in the near future, would that be a problem.
I confirm that. My guess is that the amount of food that's purchased from farmers coming into Philadelphia is less than one or two percent of the total food bought in Philadelphia. We're working to improve that for many, many good reasons, but right now it's not even on the scope in terms of percentage.
Do you believe that the people at the food distribution, at the -- I guess we call it the produce distribution center have this on the radar? Do you think they're aware you're out there?
We're actually working to try to get more of Pennsylvania produce at the distribution terminal.
There's another 37 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I element --
Answer my question. Do you think they're aware? Do you think they have knowledge of what you're doing? No knowledge that-
Yes. They definitely have knowledge of what we're doing. As Brian was saying, we've met with Sundy DiGreccio (ph) and members of Senator Fumo's staff about the Philadelphia Regional Produce Terminal. They're interested, actually as Brian was saying, getting more Pennsylvania-grown foods sold down there. Right now it's about one percent of the total. It's a $1.1 billion business. But the merchants down there in terms of the farmers' markets being a threat to their business, I would say they don't think of it as a threat and they're supportive of doing what they can to help Pennsylvania farmers, because as we know, Pennsylvania farmers are struggling. We lose about two farms a day in Pennsylvania. They go out of 38 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I business. It's a tough way to make a living.
That's an interesting statistic. You're saying at the produce terminal now, only one percent of the products sold comes from Pennsylvania?
That's from a study that was -- it's a few years old now, but it's the most up to date study. They don't track it regularly, but we are working with the Department of Agriculture. We're doing a big promotion there this summer actually to increase that number to get more -- because it stimulates the Pennsylvania economy a little bit more. But, yeah, most of that is coming from South America and California, State of Washington.
I'd like to follow up on that. Pennsylvania farmers' agriculture overall, they get about 10 to 20 cents on the consumer dollar for what they grow. As Brian said, they're going out of business very quickly. The people in the 39 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I middle for transportation long distances and warehousing and all that and advertising, marketing, shelf space, sliding fees, they get the rest of what the farmers' hard work produces. Farmers' markets are a way that the farmer can capture most of the customer dollar, the consumer dollar, so that he or she can stay in business in a very, very hard way to make a living. Most of the farmers we work with, you'd consider them low-income people, but they work very hard.
Okay. All right. Any more testimony? I'd like to thank you gentlemen very much. Any other witnesses to testify on this bill? Please step forward.
Councilman Clarke, one last, some of the issues that have come up here, I hope that they do not delay passage of this bill this session, because the operation of all the farmers' markets in 40 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I Philadelphia are dependent on it.
My name is Tony west. I am President of Friends of Clark Park. It's the park support group for Clark Park, which is a community park in West Philadelphia. It's administered by the Department of Recreation, and I'd like to make two comments about our own experience of our farmers' market and a third comment on some of the problems that you've come up with in your own district, noticed on Fairmount and Girard Avenue. I have some familiarity with those because I worked for many years for the Star and Home News newspapers. I know those commercial strips and those issues pretty well. First off, I would say that our experience with the farmers' market in Clark Park that's about four to five years old now 41 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I has proven to be very successful in more than just a nutritional way. Clark Park is a fairly large, very busy park. It's heavily used. It is diversely used. A lot of stuff goes on there. A lot of different stuff goes on there. In testing and polling our membership in the past couple of years, we have found that of all the different uses to which Clark Park is put, the farmers' market on the 500 block of South 43rd Street is the most popular. It is the one that unites most people. It is in practice not just a place to go to get your food. It's a place that pulls the community together. It reflects community values. It says something about how the people in our neighborhood see each other, how they feel about each other. It helps define the community. It's a place to meet people. It's something that I don't see in our neighborhood supermarket, where I also shop. So I would tell you that by 42 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I facilitating the growth of farmers' markets, you're going to be doing more than just spreading cabbages around town. You are going to be building true community. This is something that I think is public good. It's something that merits facilitation. The second point that I would make is that I can't speak about farmers' markets in general, but in the Clark Park farmers' market, it would be a mistake to say that their produce competes with the produce of stores in any but a very, very general way. This is, in our case, clearly locally grown produce, and it's something that speaks for itself. Once you see it, there's no way that you're going to confuse a Florida tomato or a Chilean lettuce or an apple with the stuff that they have. The varieties are different. The appearance is different. We know it's locally grown. This is not something that we can get in any corner store or in any supermarket in our neighborhood, except often times at very high price, if at all. And this is 43 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I certainly, in many cases, more than a question of taste, but it affects health. My wife is a breast cancer survivor. She's been under treatment for the past couple of years. Part of her recovery program at the University of Pennsylvania is, it's clinically authorized, is to refrain from eating commercially mass-marketed chemically treated produce as much as possible. Her doctors are telling her go to the organic, go to the locally grown. This is something that's much easier said than done. The farmers' market gives us a chance to literally walk to it and get it. So that's not something that is easily replaced. I think that, once again, the City should see more of this, not less of it. The third point also addresses competition between commercial establishments and farmers' markets. And that issue does arise. I think it's quite serious and it's something that needs to be in the granting of new -- or the establishment of new farmers' markets, definitely one should consider whether or not you're competing with an 44 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I established store, if there's one right across the street who is selling comparable food. I would think that a City Council person is the best person to judge that sort of thing. The district Councilman knows the district.
They know their commercial strips, and if they are currently the ones who are involved in advising whether or not to set up a farmers' market, that's the system I would stick with. That's all I have to say, gentlemen.
Thank you. Any questions of that witness? (No response.)
There being none, this concludes the public hearing. (Public hearing of Committee on Licenses and Inspections adjourned at 2:10 p.m.) - - - 45 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on June 7, 2005, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.) 46 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC MEETING - COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, June 7, 2005, 2:10 p.m. BILL NO. 050384 PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN JOAN KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN JUAN F. RAMOS COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN TASCO COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 47 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I
We will now go into the public meeting. Councilman Kelly, I would like to ask you to offer the amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer amendments to Bill NO. 050384. I would also like to move that the amendments be adopted.
The ayes have it. Councilman Kelly, I'd like to ask you to make a motion on Bill 050384.
Yes. Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 050384 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation as amended. 48 June 7, 2006 - Bill 050384 - L&I
And I also move that there be a suspension of the rules in order that this bill may be heard at the next session of Council.
The ayes have it. Bill 050384 will be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation with a suspension to be read at the next session of Council. Thank you all very much. This concludes the public meeting on the L&I committee. (Public Meeting on Committee on Licenses and Inspections adjourned at 2:11 p.m.) - - - 49 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on June 7, 2005, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)