Maxine Griffith. I'm sorry. The Planning Commission is the... obviously the commission charged with assisting us in moving these initiatives forward and making sure that we get a broad range of input, and especially through the public hearing process. There is a development committee.
Development Services Committee, chaired, again, by Commerce, with 474 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 broad representation. And that committee is actually being augmented as a result of recommendations by B.I.A., the Building Industry Association, to ensure that every agency of government has input. So, for instance, if a recommendation came out of that committee, that to enhance development, X, Y, Z zoning change should occur, Tom, who's on that committee, would obviously vet it, based on our policies, and bring that forward to the commission, with consultation with the appropriate Council members.
Okay. Well, I'm going to check. Miss Johnson from my office, I thought, was... I may be confused on this. Are you looking at zoning overlays for commercial districts? One of the concerns we have in our dealing with commercial districts is that we want to be able to determine what should go in a business trip. 475 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 Instead of having ten naileries, and five hairdressers and, you know, ten dollar stores, there should be some way -- And I do think there is a process in the City where you can do a zoning overlay that some businesses are allowed and some aren't, that you have too many of one, you don't add one another. Is that part of your discussion?
Councilwoman, I guess you're talking about spacing requirements. Well, to answer your question broadly, we're looking at commercial districts in general. We're certainly looking at the overlays that we have in the Code now. I think we would like to get away from that system as much as possible, and have the provisions of the districts deal with concerns about uses, as opposed to having different zoning requirements for every commercial strip in your district or Councilman DiCicco's district. We'd prefer that the individual zoning classifications deal with your concerns. 476 Operating Budget - 3/9/05
I have 5th Street which is zoned commercial. And then we find the applicants going before the Zoning Board requesting a variance for wholesaling. And some of them just go in and open wholesale shops without -- without a permit, a zoning variance. The other thing is, though, if we had this zoning overlay, they would know that they could not open up a wholesale shop there.
One of the reasons that it takes some time to evolve these and put them into effect is, we want to make sure there are no unintended consequences. However, if there is an underlying zoning that, for instance, says there shall be no more than two of the same kind of commercial enterprise within X blocks, it really wouldn't matter what the commercial 477 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 enterprise is. So, I would think that you wouldn't want a cluster of any one thing, unless you were doing a wholesale district or some kind of district. So, that's the way we would prefer to approach it, if possible. And it may not be possible. The problem now is, with this proliferation of overlays, in some areas, from block to block it's very difficult for an entrepreneur to know what they can and can't do. So, if we can standardize, and then only have overlays for things that aren't -- are really special, where there's a special condition where there's a certain situation in a given district that's really not revocable in other districts, and it would be silly to try to put it in, you know, the underlying zoning. And overlays are a great tool. So, that's what we're vetting through now. Just as we did with the residential, we'll be working with your staff, and come 478 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 about midway and make a presentation, and get back your concerns, that we're trying to balance not being an impediment to development or to good businesses opening, with the need of the residents of a given district to get what they want from these entrepreneurs.
The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller for a point of information.
Thank you. Around the whole issue of overlays, in some of our business districts, we believe that the owner of the property is just interested in the length and getting that space rented. And we have to, I believe, use zoning overlays or special controls to stop the influx of the same type of store. At Germantown and Chelten, we have at least ten dollar stores. And we had another dollar store just open. We just had, 479 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 you know, in Germantown we've had a farmer's market I think since my mother was a child. And now that farmer's market is a dollar store. It just opened up probably a week ago. And I believe that the way for us, me and business people and neighbors that are concerned about the quality and the types of stores that are now coming into Germantown and Chelten which used to be the shopping district in this City that was second only to Center City. But now we have dollar stores. We have stores that have just sell hair products...
...nail salons, barbershops, hair... you know, hair salons. And we have to figure out a way to stop this. And the only way that I can think about doing that and having some kind of impact is to do zoning overlay.
What I'm suggesting, Councilwoman, is that I have heard that 480 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 complaint probably from half of the Council folks in here. And so, what we're suggesting is that there might actually be a zone that could be developed, that could be used by a wide range of people, where the zone would say, you shall not have the same kind of store within, you know, X feet or blocks, et cetera; and that if we can do that, what you would say is, I want X zone here. And wherever that zone is in place, the entrepreneur would know, uh-oh, I can't put another hair salon here because this is... I shouldn't use the word X zone because it evokes X-files, you know what I mean... that this zone is telling me that I cannot do that. So, what we're hoping is to meet the same objective, but to do it with a City wide regulation that Council people could use when they wanted to. Not saying that overlays might still not be used if there's a special condition. You look at the zone and say, well, Max, this 481 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 is nice for 95 percent of what I want, but we have a problem in this block that's really unique. Still use an overlay for that. And this is a concept. And it's the reason why Tom and his staff are taking some time to look at it, to talk to folks in other cities that have done it. It may be we get to the end and say, you know, we thought this would work, but it's not going to work. But that's what we would... That's what we're working towards, if possible.
Well, I think that we just really want to have something that will work and that will help us upgrade our commercial strips because right now it feels like we have no control, that, you know, we could have another dollar -- we could have another store, you know, become vacant or available, rather than vacant. And we'll have another dollar store tomorrow. And we've got to figure out some way to stop it.
This might be useful, 482 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 actually, to have a small meeting on this because there's also the other side of the coin which is attracting the kind of stores you want. And we also have some ideas about how to do that.
Well, you know, attracting... You know, people might take a look at the demographics, income levels, et cetera. But I'll just use Germantown and Chelten again as an example. There are a variety of income levels there. People would probably shop there more if there was more variety of stores available. We also have probably about five institutions that... The employees that we have, we probably have about six schools. We have three public assistance offices. And all these people have staff that are there, that are making, you know, pretty good income, that would that go to Andorra or Cheltenham and shop because they can't find things at Germantown and Chelten during their lunch hour. So...
And there are 483 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 mechanisms for reaching out to these entrepreneurs and putting together packages of demographic material that we could prepare. They're also some national chains that focus on communities that may be in transition or that other chains might not see as vital. So, we'd be happy to work with you --
-- and with some folks in the Commerce Department that we've been talking to about this issue. We've actually had a little working group on our staff that's been looking specifically at the problem of supermarkets, but that's also branched out into this broader area, and would be interested in working with you on that.
All right. Thank you. Thank you, Councilwoman Tasco.
Welcome. 484 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 Are there any other questions?
The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco. I'm sorry.
Was my time up? Let me just go -- Well, I think that the whole issue around zoning is very important. And if you've heard it from the majority of the District Council people, I think we ought to be a little more pro-active in trying to address those issues because while we're thinking about it and planning -- I know your job is to plan -- we need some action.
You know, you can't -- Once it's done, you can't change it.
Right. I think probably where we've been remiss is in not sharing more of what we're doing. And what I'm going to do is to ask Tom in the appropriate way, probably through the Council President's Office, perhaps, to 485 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 arraigning a briefing, to give you some of the nitty-gritty. What we're doing is getting early input so that we know we're on the right track.
Thank you. The other question is for Mr. Lombardo from the Sinking Fund. Who's the Sinking Fund?
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. I think that's it for me.
I think it is a good idea to come and share and let us know what's going on because I read the minutes of the Planning Commission maybe a month or two ago -- I'm not really sure -- but in there it 486 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 made a statement that Council was going too far with some of these bills and things that have been introduced here. And I know that... I don't believe that any of us introduce bills because we personally want to do. We're looking out for the district. We're looking out for the district. And I think that that statement was written as it related to some of the legislation around take-outs and hours of operation, et cetera. Okay? So if you talk to us, you'll know why we're doing this, instead of thinking we're just trying to go too far.
That was absolutely an inappropriate comment. Hopefully, it wasn't one I made.
Well, actually, it was in the Planning Commission's minutes, yes.
I'm sure someone made it. But you're absolutely right. I mean, probably even an access course, someone from 487 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 my staff said that the objectives are laudable. The objectives are ones that we concur with. We just want to make sure that the laws really reflect the objectives. One of the things that's happening now, unfortunately, is that we have a process where if the laws don't quite meet the objectives -- and probably some would say even if they do -- folks end up going to the Zoning Board. And it becomes sort of a circle. So it's -- it's -- it's -- it's a difficult -- it's a difficult issue to -- to focus on. And I think you're right that having this conversation early on, sharing with you what our thoughts are, you making sure that what we think are your objectives are really your objectives. And I think that's a good idea. Hopefully within the next month we try to do that.
The Chair recognizes -- Councilwoman Tasco, your microphone's not on. 488 Operating Budget - 3/9/05
I think it's important -- I just piggybacked on Councilwoman Miller -- that you all talk to us because we live in our neighborhoods.
We deal on a daily basis with the concerns raised by the constituents. We all have people who represent us before the Zoning Board. We can share with you the kind of reasons that we have to deal with over there. We have the thinking of our community, in terms of what they like and what they don't like, what they will and what they will not buy. And so, as we plan -- and I'm glad that you are talking to the Commerce Department, because their job is to promote and develop this, that there is this collaboration and discussion around needs. But you can't do it in a vacuum. You have to talk to those of us who represent these areas, where we run into problems 489 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 constantly about the kind of stores that are going into a community, which some of them can be problematic for us on the other end once they get there. So, it's important that we meet as quickly as we can, so that we can share with you our concerns, because I know you have to work from a viewpoint where, we're the City and we have to think of the broader... the blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's fine. And that's very good philosophy. But on the practical side, we have to deal with all of that.
Well, that's why there are two branches of government. This creative tension happens. And I think there are also -- Another sense where there are two tracks. It's my sense that on the day-to-day items that come before the Zoning Board, there is good communication. I think 99 percent of the time we support the Councilperson's view before the Zoning Board. And I think our staffs work 490 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 well together. I think on the strategic kind of thing where we're thinking ahead, that could use more front end collaboration. And I'm committed to doing that.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Just made it. How many planners do you have, area planners now?
About 35, and that includes folks whose title are G.I.S., geographic system coordinators. But most of them also have degrees in planning, that kind of thing. 491 Operating Budget - 3/9/05
Not really. There was, as you know, an initial increase. And thanks to the... not only to the Mayor but to the Council, we got authorization, I think, in my second year here, to bring on... I believe it was new planners. 10 Some of those have gone on not to 11 better things because there can't be anything 12 better than working in Philadelphia, but gone on to other things. And there had been a freeze. And we have in some cases gotten authorization to hire; in other cases not. So, I would say where we are now is not a dramatic increase. There are probably two or three more staff members than there were when I came.
How do you prioritize the placement or what is the process to have a planner designated for an area to develop a strategic plan?
Deputy Director has a point. Were you talking about the community 492 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 planning staff that works directly with Council members to develop plans?
35 is the whole agency. That's strategic planners who work on capital budget and urban designers who --
11. We had 11, and that is one down from our high of 12; whereas, you know, we've divided the City into planning analysis sections. And at one point we had hoped to have one planner per P.A.S.
I was going to 493 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 change my line of questioning, because if you had 35 --
-- I was going to ask, you why do I have to get in line to get a plan done for Eastern Lower Tioga. So it's only 11.
Well, the Deputy Executive Director earns his salary today by --
My earlier question. What's the process to determine what areas should be designated to develop a Strategic plan? Is it driven by the elected official? Is it driven by need? Or is it driven by community group? Or is it driven by a development strategy? I mean...
The universe right now is still being driven by the original N.T.I. planning that was done, I guess, three-and-a-half years ago. We had initially proposed, I believe, 13 N.T.I. plans. And then there were consultations with Council members that 494 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 in addition to City planning, the N.T.I. Office and Housing Office took a part in. As a result of that, the turned 5 into 37, is it? 34 in this report. 34 6 plans. We are still working through those 34 7 plans, in addition to the fact that 8 foundations have granted C.D.C.s and other 9 community-based organization funds to do 10 their own planning. 11 They're going to do them with or 12 without us. We have assumed it's probably 13 better to do them in league with the City, so that also gets folded into our basket. And then occasionally, where there are large-scale developments such as the Navy Yard Plan.
-- which, of course, was not an original N.T.I. plan, we have to devote some staff time to that as well.
Upon the completion of the plan, what happens? Do you hand it off to the group, to Council person other agencies, to determine -- 495 Operating Budget - 3/9/05
Let me finish. -- to determine a blueprint for implementation? Or do we just do a plan, do a book and say, okay, thank you very much, and go on to the next area? Is there any follow-up from the Planning Commission to some way get the appropriate parties to address the plan, and implement the plan in the Strategic way
yes. That's a very important question. And it's the question every planner asked because every planner wants the plan to be implemented. One of the things that we've done or two of the things that we've done to try to move that forward is, we involve the operating agencies through the planning process. As you know yourself, for instance, Strawberry Mansion Plan, we got folks from Housing and Commerce, et cetera, there talking with the folks along with us. In addition, the last page of the 496 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 plan is always a matrix. And that matrix lists the objective, what's needed to reach that objective, and who the -- what the agency is or sometimes if quasi public or private entity that's needed to effectuate that change. Then we continue to work with the agency to try to move those forward. However, recently the Chief of Staff convened a series of meetings -- and we were very pleased about this -- to say there needs to be a more formal linkage between the planning effort and implementation. And how are we going to... How are we going to do this? And Victor I can't Victoria over... How many plans did we send over, ten? VICTORIA: Yes.
About ten plans where we reached the stage... And we had sign off from Council members that we could move forward, to be the prototypes for this new way of doing things. And we're in draft form. I suspect that... And I don't want 497 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 to speak for the Chief of Staff, but I suspect one of things that's happening in this interim period, other than these hearings, which, of course, take up a lot of our time, is that there's going to be a changeover in the Managing Director. And it's the Managing Director and those agencies within the Managing Director's purview, for the most part -- not totally because, obviously, we have Commerce -- that are charged with implementation. I suspect that --
Managing Director's? What about the Redevelopment Authority and O.H.C.d.?
Those as well. And actually, we have perhaps a closer relationship with R.D.A. We work with them on an ongoing basis. And to some extent with O.H.C.D. as well. But all of those agencies, as well as, you know, recreation, and all of the other agencies that come under the purview of the 498 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 Managing Director have other mandates that they're trying to objective -- that they're trying to fulfill as well. So they're asking in a way the same question you ask: How should we prioritize this planning work in our work program? So, the first meetings around this was actually sort of parsing this through and using the... I think the empowerment zone process. And there was another --
There was another process that was used as a prototype, If I remember
Let me not misspeak. It was a specific sub-process within the Empowerment Zone process, which is planning implementation of the American Street Plan 499 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 which apparently people thought went well, at least in terms of the relationship between the plan and implementation by Streets and Recreation, and others, in Commerce and others.
Reason I'm asking this line of questioning, there seems to be to some degree -- And I hate to use the term disconnect, but I don't get a sense that if there's a development plan done for a particular neighborhood, that people in the agencies that oversee both the implementation, in terms of contracting with developers or interacting with developers, have a sense of what those plans are. And I'll use Strawberry Mansion as an example, that somebody calls and is interested in Strawberry Mansion; and they interact with the Redevelopment Authority about parcels of land that could potentially be available. It doesn't -- They may have a -- from their inventory sense, a sense of what's available. But they don't have a clue, in 500 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 terms of what the recommendations for the Planning Commission were for that area. And it ultimately ends up getting me involved in some level that, frankly speaking, I probably don't want to be in, being the arbiter between the developer who wants to do something, the R.D.A., and the plan that the community developed. And more often than not, they don't -- they don't have the same objectives.
And I'm just concerned that, you know, it's not a clearly -- It's a clearly thought-out process early on. But from the implementation it just doesn't seem to be a continuing process, working with both the community and the Planning Commission.
That's disappointing to hear because I know that Victoria has done several presentations to a consortium of agencies, not only distributed the plans but actually had ongoing conversations. Do you want to speak to that? 501 Operating Budget - 3/9/05
My name is Victoria Mason Alley, and I'm the Director for Community Planning at the Planning Commission. Yes, Councilman, given our interest and concern in making the appropriate linkages between our recommendations and the plans and implementation, we've spent a great deal of time reaching out to each of our colleagues, that... fellow agencies, to share with them, the component of each plan, recommendations being discussed, where we are identifying those agencies as being partners in the implementation process to get their buy in, in the hopes that -- Again, we not only get their buy in, but this in turn will filter down to other levels of staff within their agency.
You know, I think it's a work in progress. And it has taken time, 502 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 clearly. But we have made ourselves available, and continue to make ourselves available, to reach out to staff and to help enlighten the various departments that need further information or assistance from us.
Let me ask you this question on follow up because I know I've been way beyond my five-minute limit. And thank you, Council President, for allowing me to do so. Does it make sense to you in, an area where the Planning Commission does a plan, you know, utilizing all the resources of the community and other agencies, and then the City or the Redevelopment Authority kind of puts out a request for proposals to develop a master plan for purposes of development, as opposed to this kind of hodgepodge strategy that we use? Say, the Cecil B. Moore area as an example. We hired this firm to do a plan, right? And at the end of the plan, it's not clear to me who will ultimately take the 503 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 responsibility of implementing the plan, understanding the agencies and their inability, frankly speaking, would be on that -- to the level that you probably need to be, from an implementation standpoint. Would it make more sense to talk about selecting a master developer in some of these areas, you know? And they can have, you know, subcontracts or whatever or joint venture relationships with other developers to develop an area, as opposed to the current way? In a comprehensive way, as opposed to putting out an R.F.P. for houses here, 20 15 houses there. 16
That's an interesting 17 concept. And certainly conceptually that 18 could be a great way of working in certain 19 instances. 20 In other situations, however, where you want a wide range of competition, where things are being phased in a way that's very disparate in terms of time, it may not work. I mean, I certainly think that the idea of sensitive master development scenario 504 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 could be part of the tool kit of how we move forward on issues. And that's something that we would bring to Miss Wilkerson's sort of task force. But in addition, you know, I would not want to leave here with you not thinking that this is also a concern of the administration. I mean, you know, we are planners. So, we would love for our plans to be implemented in exactly the way we and the community and the elected officials have developed them. But it is not up -- You know, we're not the ones that called this implementation meeting together.
It was really the Mayor's Office who also saw this need to link things better, but to do it in a way that doesn't constrain, because a plan is a view into the future. And you don't want something that's so connected that it can't 505 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 respond to changes in the market, changes in demographics.
Changes in finance, et cetera. So exactly how you do that, and whether there's a protocol... Is there a checklist? Is there a document? Do you have to sign off? For instance, in New York, where both Victoria and I have worked, all they say is, once a plan is gone through, if an agency does something that's not in conformance with the plan, they have to explain why.
And that might be a useful idea, because in simply doing that, it force the agencies to look at the plan again and to think through, can we do it this way? No, and this is why. But there is this process. And I would, again, be happy to convey to the Mayor's Office that Council might be more interested in getting involved in how this is 506 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 being vetted through, and what the outcome is.
Well, okay. And I'm not looking for work. I have more than I need -- than I can handle at this point. But... And I appreciate your -- you know, your suggestion that we get more involved. I guess what I'm trying to do is to get a better sense of who ultimately is responsible for the implementation of these developments. And I just know too often in government it's very difficult to get one entity responsible because you've got this jurisdictional back and forth: Oh, I'm in control. This is my agency, this territorial thing. And if you had a master developer, right, for an area, and that master developer was charged with the implementation of a strategic plan, you know, understanding that they can, you know, utilize the resources of the government, that the likelihood -- that 507 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 that person's sole charge or that company's sole charge, then the likelihood that that would be done in a coordinated way I think is enhanced. And that's why --
It's definitely something to be discussed and looked into. It's an interesting idea.
All right. Okay. Thank you. I can take advantage of the five-minute rule further?
Might as well get this in while I can. In terms of your resources, i.e., your area of planners, and understanding that there's some limitations, is there a varying degree of ability to work in an area? I understand a full-blown plan takes a substantial amount of resources, but if I have an area -- and I think Miss Alley understands the area that I'm talking about.
That I need to start some level of process to get people engaged in understanding that there's going to be a planning process, and ultimately, somewhere down the line, when one of those planners are freed up, develop a full-blown strategy. Is there something that can be done in the interim?
I think, clearly, Councilman, if you were arranging a meeting in that community and wanted our presence and our assistance, we would be glad to accompany you and join you. I think with regard to the time frame for that planning process, you know, it would be important to be honest, that it might be a slightly longer time frame than you might initially hope.
Well, I mean, there is another... There is another approach. And I don't want to use this as a panacea, but there's a plus to the fact that Philadelphia has gotten a lot of fairly positive publicity about the work that we're 509 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 doing. And that is that we have been pretty successful in getting grants, not only from local entities and foundations, but also from some national foundations -- national organizations, from the N.E.A., for instance, and from the National Trust. As I was saying to the Councilwoman, one of the things we might be focused on is scoping out a proposal, especially if the project or the area plan had something unique or particularly interesting about it that could be replicable, for instance, in other communities or other cities like ours, and try to get some targeted monies. The CHPP program, the Community Heritage Planning Program, that we were able to do in Francisville, for instance, and that now the trust is working on, it will probably be one of the prototypes for the revolving loan program. That came as a result of a grant. We wouldn't have been able to do that otherwise. So, we're not saying we will not do 510 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 the work. That's our job. But with the understanding that we're doing 34 other plans... Victoria has, as a matter of fact, some specific funding sources in mind that's probably not appropriate to put on the record but that we would be happy to call you about.
One last question. And I will note to what degree City Planning will be involved. I mean, it's a question. I mean, we have right now going on in the City of Philadelphia to some degree somewhat of a phenomenon, in terms of the aggressive nature of market rate housing.
I'm, frankly speaking, amazed when I look in the Sunday paper, and I see a house on the 1800 block of Fairmount Avenue just sold for $759,000, which is a good thing. But there are some concerns in the adjacent community, in similar communities throughout the City, particularly around the perimeter of Center City, about what the 511 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 implications will be, as it relates to their ability to continue to stay in their neighborhoods because of rising real estate taxes. As you know, Francisville is a traditional working-class neighborhood. We've done a substantial amount of affordable housing in Francisville. But what's happening now is, people are strategically purchasing properties and lots. And they're starting to build market rate housing. And there's a real concern. In the work that you're doing, as it relates to the interaction with other agencies, do you all have some sense of what we can do? While we probably need to continue the aggressive market rate housing that's happening in our City, but there is a real concern about maintaining some levels of affordability for an overwhelming number of our citizens. Do you all -- Are you all involved in that?
Yeah, we have been 512 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 involved in a number of conversations. And as you know, there have been even some forums -- and you know, I will say the word -- on gentrification, where we've taken part in a supportive way, to Kevin Hannah, who's been sort of the point person on this issue, as the Housing Secretary. One of the classic ways of approaching this is economic integration, where you make sure that as market rate housing is being developed in a given area, you also have affordable housing and low income housing that not only begins to temper the rise of all of the housing, but it ensures that there is economic integration, and there are places to live in the neighborhood, to a certain extent for the people who are there now. The problem with that is two-fold. One... And this isn't in my view. This is not something you vetted through the commission, but perhaps my work at H.U.D. ...that you really need strong federal involvement and a strong federal urban policy 513 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 to accomplish that, because you need the funding, whether it be Section 8 or other kinds of funding, to establish this blended housing agenda. I think, in working with individual Council members, and with P.H.A. who's been excellent, I think, in this -- And Philadelphia is lucky in a way, that it's -- P.H.A. housing is, to a large extent, scatter site, and actually fits into communities. We've been trying to sort of, to the extent that Planning Commission is involved, mold this in --
I'm more concerned with the individual who already lives in the neighborhood. All right? Low, moderate income individual. And now this wave of market rate housing comes in and starts escalating values in the neighborhood. Now this person who's on the a fixed income or low income starts getting these 514 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 increased tax bills, and just simply can't keep pace with the rising values, i.e., the taxes. And that's where I'm trying to get a focus.
Right. And there perhaps some kind of subsidy would be useful. But understand, when I talk about the infusion of P.H.A. housing, I'm saying that that also begins to mitigate and dampen real estate values in a given area, to some degree.
That's what I thought. And I'm finding out that in these neighborhoods -- and I'll use Francisville as an example -- when we send out our appraisers, and our appraisers are getting comps, they're getting comps on the high end, and they're not taking into account that there was a substantial amount of low income housing done in that neighborhood. So, when these comps are coming back for acquisition, they're at the high end. And that --
But traditionally 515 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 that has been --
That has been one of the approaches. You know, again, I want to defer to some degree to Secretary Hannah, who's really our lead on this. And I don't... You know, I don't want to put everything off to another meeting at another time.
But I think this is such a big issue. It may be that Finance also needs to be in the loop in this. We've also had a question how much rental housing should we be providing in this mix, as well, if we're trying to keep, for instance, young people in the City. So, I think this is a broad question, and a question that we have to 516 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 debate, in the context of a federal government that is perhaps not particularly attuned to the needs of the City.
In all due respect, I'm not anticipating much help from the federal government --
-- on this issue at this point. In the future -- and I'll end with this question -- you've said here that there's been some discussion internally in the administration. Can you all include Council members to some degree in that discussion?
Because we have some real concerns, because we're, like, the front line of defense, as it relates to neighborhoods. And we really need to be a part of that discussion.
I will personally communicate to Secretary Hannah and see how 517 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 we can proceed with that.
Welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you, Madam President. I just wanted to piggyback on Councilman Clarke, just in reference to including Council members. Again, I know I said it earlier. But it's important that if you come up with -- at the end of your debate that this amount of rental housing is needed, we need to know that. We're out there meeting with neighbors and developers all the time. And we can help direct some of those activities that would address that need. But if we don't know that that's what you're talking about -- And perhaps there need to be recommendations. 518 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 And I just want to thank Victoria Mason -- I always call you Mason-Alley -- and the rest of your staff for doing, I think, such a fine job at our N.T.I. planning meetings.
Absolutely. And as far as I know, no conclusions have been reached. And these briefing sessions really came about because of requests -- public requests to speak on the issue, and just information being provided. But I think both you and the Councilman raised an issue. I mean, who would have thought that at this stage we would be speaking the way we are about the thrust of market rate housing? As a matter of fact, how many units... I know we've been asked to provide -- Rich and Tom came to me a couple of months ago, right after Christmas, I 519 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 guess, right at the holidays, with the fact that our office was being flooded, really, with requests and inquiries about, in some cases unassisted as-of-right housing going up everywhere.
Right. And I think that was one of the goals of N.T.I. And I'm really happy that we're having this kind of discussion in Philadelphia because it means we're starting to address those issues in neighborhoods.
Yes. And we have this term that we've been using for Center City Paul. And Paul Levy and I argue about who came up with it first, but managing success. And I think that's what... I mean, it's nice to have the problem, but the problem does need to be addressed.
Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? The Chair recognizes Councilman 520 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 Cohen. You're light is one. Did you want to be recognized? (No response.)
Very well. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No response.)
Seeing none, I thank you. And you're probably going to be in time for your other appointment.
Thank you. Our next witness. MR. McPHERSON: Sinking Fund Commission.
Mr. Jannetti, welcome again. I would ask you to summarize your testimony. The stenographer will be given a copy of the testimony that you have presented to us, and it will be transcribed in full.
Thank you, Madam President. 521 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 Good afternoon, Madam President, and members of Council. I am Vince Jannetti, Executive Director of the Sinking Fund Commission, here to testify on behalf of the Commission for our fiscal 2006 Operating Budget request. The Sinking Fund Commission's fiscal year 2006 budget request, all funds, totals $448.5 million. The General Fund portion of this request totals $166.1 million. The request from the Water Fund for fiscal 2006 totals $181.0 million, all Class 700. And the Aviation Fund request is $94.9 million, all Class 700. In addition, the Commission's 2006 request of $6.5 million from the car rental tax fund is for lease payments on the new sports stadiums. This concludes the written portion of my testimony. I'd be happy to answer any questions that Council may have relative to our 2006 Operating Budget. 522 Operating Budget - 3/9/05
Thank you, Mr. Jannetti. What are the projected payments in FY'06 for new borrowings?
On new borrowings in FY'06, the Airport has gone out with a new issue. Those bonds will have capitalized interest, so there won't be any payments in fiscal '06 for those bonds. For the Water Fund, which is also going out with new money, the projection we have in the budget is for debt service -- new debt service payments of... Can't see this. I think I might have that reversed. There's no -- In the Water Fund there is no 17 debt service payments also in fiscal 2006. That's all capitalized interest.
Okay. So are you saying we have no projected payments in FY'06 for new borrowings? (No response.)
I'm sorry. Yes, 523 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 ma'am. On the tran, which would be in the General Fund, we are projecting $380 million at approximately three percent interest. The debt service on that would be around $11.1 million.
Not projected, no, ma'am. The only other thing is, on N.T.I. we did the final traunch of N.T.I. this year. And so, the debt service will be up to the full $20 million a year.
The debt service on the N.T.I. bonds will encompass the full $20 million that's in the budget.
20? Okay. Mr Jannetti, do you have funds budgeted in FY'06 for guarantees by the General Fund on the Parking Authority bonds?
And what are you doing to reduce and/or eliminate these payments?
On the Parking Authority series 99 and 99-a bonds, we have approximately $2.4 million in the budget for our guarantees. On the -- On the bond for the facility, the proposed facility at 19th and Walnut, we have asked the Parking Authority to take the remainder of the project funds that are unspent, and feed the bonds they have, a portion of the bonds they have outstanding. We've also asked that they sell the 525 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 property and use that money to take out the rest of the bonds.
Well, you've asked. Have they responded? Do you know what they're doing?
That was about two months ago. There was -- The Commerce Director has done that.
So I assume the Commerce Director will be following up on this?
What refunding swaps, et cetera, are you planning to do in FY'06?
Right now I don't have any refundings or swaps in FY'06. We are working on two right now which will be completed in this fiscal year, one for Water and one for Airport.
What are 526 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 the projected savings?
These are -- These are swaps due to swaptions. So, the projected savings was taken up when we did the swaption originally. So, when they executed the swaptions, we took in cash which was the savings.
Okay. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Yes. My question is... Find my question. Good morning. In your testimony you discussed the City's issuance of tax revenue anticipation notes which are trans in July of 2005. However, under one of the proposals by the Tax Reform Commission, the Commission proposed that the City should allow for quarterly real estate tax payment. If this proposal was adopted, would it not reduce the need for trans? We had a discussion last year about the quarterly 527 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 report.
I'm not real up on real estate taxes, Councilwoman, but I think that would hurt us, in that the tax -- We collected real estate taxes in the beginning of the year?
So we collected them in quarters throughout the year. I think -- I'm not sure. I've never analyzed that, but I don't think that would help us. But that's... I'll look at that.
I want to go to Wi-Fi. You're aware that the administration 528 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 wants to create a non-profit or have a non-profit created, and bonds would be floated in the area of $10 million. What would be your involvement and the City's involvement if this was created, to create this wireless network?
I'm not sure what entity would be issuing those bonds, Councilman.
Let's say the non-profit that was created did that. Would we have some... What would our involvement be? Would we have to guarantee? I mean, I don't know a lot about bonds, so I'm asking you as the expert to tell me, if it were -- if they're floated by the non-profit, what would be the commitment that the City would have to make? Give me every scenario possible. The administration's thrown this out there, that it was going to be funded by bonds. So, I'd like to know how we're going to do that.
Every scenario possible. We could do G.O. bonds for that. 529 Operating Budget - 3/9/05 We would pay for it out of the General Fund. We could do Authority bonds with a service agreement. We could do... They had a non-profit. They could issue their own bonds, and which would be on our debt. They could issue their own bonds which we could guarantee. I mean, you know, it could be all over the place.
What scenario would we... What scenario we wouldn't be on the hook at all?
If they -- If they had a non-profit who did their own bonds and we didn't guarantee them.
Would anybody buy bonds that weren't guaranteed, that a non-profit would throw out there?
It depends on... I don't know an answer to that, Councilman.