COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON RULES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, December 1, 1998 9:45 a.m. - - - BILL 980718 - Related to Hospitals & Higher Education Facilities Authority BILL 980657 - Prohibiting Sale of Laser Pens BILL 980750 - South Street/Head House District (previously heard, voted on) BILL 980748 - Amending Phila. Zoning Maps BILL 980749 - City Ave. Spec. Svcs. District BILL 980761 - Related to Appeals to Courts BILL 980779 - Related to Zoning and Planning BILL 980780 - Amending Phila. Zoning Maps BILL 980781 - Amending Model Cities Urban Renewal Area BILL 980801 - " " " " " Bill 980800 - (Being held by sponsor.) RES. 980112 - Related to Minority Contractors Collection of Funds (Full text of bills contained within transcript.) PRESENT: COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY, Chair COUNCILWOMAN AUGUSTA A. CLARK COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILWOMAN ANNA CIBOTTA VERNA COUNCILMAN W. THACHER LONGSTRETH COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES I N D E X Page BILL 980718 Donald Cramp, CEO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 Hospitals & Higher Education Facilities Authority Sister Marie Rudegair, Administrator. . . . . 6 St. Joseph Villa Dr. Ray Lefton, CFO, Temple East. . . . . . . 7 BILL 980657 Lt. John Colarette, Philadelphia Police Force Michael Hasson, First Union Center. . . . . . 10 Director of Security Services 11 BILL 980780 12 Richard Lombardo, Planning Commission . . . . 29 13 Paul Deegan, PIDC . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39 Joseph Pacetti, Developer . . . . . . . . . . 42 14 Joseph Egan, Real Est. Consultant - J. Pacetti 44 Arthur Plaxton, Past President. . . . . . . . 48 Spring Garden Civic Association Allen Rubin, Spring Garden Resident . . . . . 53 Henry Schwartz, Divisional Dept. City Solicitor 61 BILL 980748 Richard Lombardo, Planning Commission . . . . 67 Carl Primavera, Esq., Counsel to. . . . . . . 70 First Anthony Residential Capital Corporation George David, Sr., President. . . . . . . . . 71 First Anthony Residential Capital Corp Barbara Capozzi, Realtor. . . . . . . . . . . 74 President - Packer Park Civic Association. BILL 980761 Richard Lombardo, Planning Commission . . . . 82 3 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES (Index, cont'd.) BILL 980779 Richard Lombardo, Planning Commission . . . . 87 Paul Deegan, PIDC . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 89 BILL 980781 Noel Eisenstat, Executive Director. . . . . . 91 Philadelphia Redevelopment Authority BILL 980801 Noel Eisenstat, Executive Director. . . . . . 94 Philadelphia Redevelopment Authority RES. 980112 Earl Calloway, Owner, C.E. Franklin, Inc. . . 98 Grace Gibson, Owner . . . . . . . . . . . . . 104 Quality Heating and Sheet Metal. Jihad Ali, Business Owner . . . . . . . . . . 110 Member of United Minority Enterprise Association 4 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980718 P R O C E E D I N G S
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is a public hearing of the Committee on Rules. A quorum has now been established, and we thank you for your patience in waiting. Bill No. 980718 is an ordinance 9 declaring that it is desirable for the health safety, and welfare of the people in the area served by Temple East, Inc., at its Northeastern Hospital facility and at its Neumann Medical Center facility and the Convent of the Sisters of St. Joseph, Chestnut Hill, at its St. Joseph Villa Nursing Home facility, for the Hospitals and Higher Education Facilities Authority of Philadelphia to undertake certain projects for Temple East, Inc. and the Convent of the Sisters of St. Joseph Chestnut Hill, each a Pennsylvania nonprofit corporation organized under the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed. 5 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980718
Mr. Chairman, committee members, my name is Donald Cramp. I serve as the chief executive officer of the Hospitals and Higher Education Facilities Authority of Philadelphia. I wish to make a brief introductory statement in support of the proposed bills before you this morning. On October 13, 1998, representatives of Temple East, Inc. and the Convent of the Sisters of St. Joseph Chestnut Hill attended the Hospitals and Higher Education Facilities Authority of Philadelphia board of directors meeting seeking the Authority's assistance in a financing. Temple East, Inc. and the Convent of the Sisters of St. Joseph Chestnut Hill's applications were accepted by the Authority board. A Public Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act, a TEFRA, hearing on behalf of Temple East and the Convent of the Sisters of St. Joseph Chestnut Hill will be held on December 9th in our boardroom in accordance with the published newspaper advertisements. Today we have the privilege together of assisting Temple and Convent of the Sisters of St. Joseph Chestnut Hill and the many people 6 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980718 associated with these outstanding medical centers. And, to close, I would like to express our appreciation sincerely to each member of the Rules Committee and the Council on behalf of the board of the Authority for the scheduling and prompt handling of this meeting. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to introduce, if I may, Sisters Marie Rudegair, who is the administrator of the Convent of the Sisters of St. Joseph Villa.
Good morning, Sister, please identify yourself for the record. SISTER RUDEGAIR: I'm Sister Marie Rudegair, the administrator at St. Joseph Villa in Flowertown, Pennsylvania.
Please proceed. SISTER RUDEGAIR: First of all, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I'd like to thank you for the opportunity be here today. We are grateful to the Hospital Authority for their assistance in helping us to finance capital expenses for the villa. St. Joseph opened in 1968 and it was built as a convent home for the Sisters of St. 7 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980718 Joseph. However, in 1981, we realized that we could expand our mission from just Sisters of the St. Joseph, and we rearranged levels of care, and we also are a licensed nursing home, and we take in lay people and religious of other congregations commission. We're joint-commission-certified and, you know, we have a building that is 30 years old, and we have some capital needs, and that's what we are using the money for, to finance a sprinkler system as our major thing, and also other capital needs.
Thank you very much for your testimony. Are there any other questions for Sister? (No questions.)
Yes, there is Mr. Chairman. Mr. Ray Lefton is the chief financial officer of Temple East.
Good morning. You should all have a handout which I've provided. Again, my 8 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980718 name's Dr. Ray Lefton. I'm the chief financial officer for Temple East, which is the result of a merger between Northeastern Hospital and Neumann Medical Center. It's a pleasure to testify here in front of you to discuss the financing of approximately $11.5 million on behalf of Temple East. The money will be used to consolidate two tax-exempt debt financings that were issued outside of Philadelphia County. The refinancing will result in cost saving as well as result in providing flexibility with respect to a less restrictive bond indenture. No new money will result from the financing. We appreciate City Council's support on this initiative as well as the assistance of the Hospital Authority. On the next page of the handout, please find some background information on Temple East. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me at this time or at your convenience. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. Any questions for this witness? (No questions.) 9 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657
Mr. Chairman, if your board members feel that we can vote this out, please suspend the rules if you may.
Thank you very much for coming in. Is there anyone else here to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Seeing none, we will now move to Bill No. 980657, which is an ordinance amending Title 9, entitled "Regulation of Business, Trades and Professions" of The Philadelphia Code by prohibiting the sale of laser-pointing devices to minors and regulating the display of laser-pointing devices for sale. Will the witnesses please approach the -- if we can get the whole group of witnesses up 10 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 around the table. (Witnesses come forward.)
First for the record, the person's who's going to lead off the testimony, please identify themselves for the record and then you can proceed. You can just have a seat. Thank you. And please, this system's very old, you need to pull the microphone right close up to you. LT. COLARETTE: My name's Lieutenant John Colarette.
Could you spell your last name. LT. COLARETTE: C-O-L-A-R-E-T-T-E. I'm a member of the Philadelphia police force, currently assigned to the SWAT team.
Please proceed with your testimony. LT. COLARETTE: I've been asked to perform a demonstration this morning, comparing the laser pointer and comparing it to weapons that are equipped with laser cites.
Use that board. 11 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 LT. COLARETTE: If you notice, the laser dart or the laser pointer, you can obviously see that quite clear. What I have here is a Taser device that introduces 20,000 volts of electricity into the body. It paralyzes you, rendering you completely incapable of any type of defensive acts at all.
Is that commonly known as a "stun gun"? LT. COLARETTE: Stun gun, that's correct. This is laser-pointed laser-sighted. And, as you can see, there's no way to differentiate between the two.
When that's activated the Taser gun, there's a cord that shoots out? LT. COLARETTE: There are two darts that shoot out, correct.
What's the distance to that? LT. COLARETTE: The distance of the Taser is 15 feet.
Okay. 12 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 LT. COLARETTE: I have a 9-millimeter pistol here. This is laser-sighted. This weapon is totally unloaded, the slides lock to rear, it can't fire at all.
Good. LT. COLARETTE: There's no ammunition in it, the magazine is empty.
Although yesterday, after five hours of testimony, I wish you would have shot me with that. (Laughter.)
Please proceed. LT. COLARETTE: And you can see that the laser on this weapon, it's very difficult to tell the difference between the two, the laser pointer and this. Same type of thing. Laser sights can be mounted on any type of weapon. They can be mounted on M-16 rifles, they can be mounted on AK-47 assault rifles. It's very difficult for a police officer to be able to make a call between what you're being pointed at, whether it be a laser pointer or a laser-sighted weapon. It could cause some very serious and tragic outcomes. 13 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657
So is it your belief that the use of laser pointers on the street, for the most part, is being done by people under the age of 18, years of age? 6 LT. COLARETTE: I would say most 7 reckless use of laser pointers is being done by 8 juveniles, yes. 9
My name's Michael Hasson 12 (ph.), I'm the Director of Security and Services 13 at the First Union Complex, in South 14 Philadelphia. And we're responsible for both the 15 Spectrum and the Center events. 16
Over the last two years, we have had an enormous impact of laser pens coming into the building by juveniles and adults alike, pointing them at hockey players, basketball players, entertainers --
Wrestlers, in fact, which is probably the heaviest use. In fact, yesterday, we had a ten-year-old that we escorted out of the 14 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 building for the use of the pointer, and he blamed us for telling not telling him that he wasn't allowed to use it, even though we had signs up all over the building, on the doors, on our turnstiles. And the thing that probably bothers me the most is that they try and make us responsible for the use by not letting them know that they're not allowed to use them, but the performers themselves, the production companies don't want them in the building for the same reason that the police are testifying, is that there's a whole lot of different uses with the laser pointer itself. In fact, last week, there was an article in the paper, the Kiss group was up in Madison Square Garden, and they almost got into fight when the drummer had a pointer on him, and the person that was actually doing it was only two or three rows into the seating area. And they weren't going to perform. That's a major problem for us because we fight that every day when they come in and they say, you know, they want all these rules and regulations about the use of lasers. And we're 15 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 resource-poor as it is, in the sense that we have enough people on to handle the security, without trying to grab 500 people laser pens and putting them on the performers. So besides the fact that it confronts us all the time, the use itself, I think the responsibility has to be placed on the user and not necessarily where they're using 'em. I brought one specific laser, which I'll point on the board in a second that they've gotten cute too. I mean, it's the same thing. It's a personal affront, I believe, when someone puts a laser pointer on you, especially if there's some other hidden agenda behind doing that, and you can use your own mind to say what that -- you know, feel that one out. This one here we had, they were putting it on the scoreboard on one event, if you can see that, get it there. That's real nice when you come in and you're in a family entertainer center and someone's got that shining all over the building, and you're trying to locate it to get it out. These are the kinds of things that are actually -- 16 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657
I'm trying to figure out how to let the record reflect as to exactly what was shown on the board. It's a commonly -- "flipping the bird," I guess would the way to --
Would be appropriate. But there's other ones out there too that are, in fact, very insightful too for different things for discrimination and things like that.
And as part of your duties and your people, are your people authorized or directed to confiscate them?
We consider it contraband, so depending on -- my policy down there is to confiscate and to remove the people from the building. And, depending on what these different production people want for the different shows, is we'll put that on top of it also, for confiscations or escorts out in that regard. But I'd like to see further, even though the sale for juveniles would help us out tremendously 'cause it would be a good educational process, is the use itself or defining use of it at a certain point about the actual use of laser 17 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 pens.
Okay. Is there anyone here from L&I? Do the officers have anything else to add as far as your testimony? Thank you. Any questions from any of the witnesses? Councilmember Verna.
Adults that act like juveniles are -- we have a lot of those, too.
Right. That would help us out, it would be a great help for us.
Well, one of the things that the lieutenant mentioned was the issue of children on the street using them. It would put them in a dangerous position. Considering the new weaponry or the technological aspects of the weaponry being used out there today, it may put 18 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 that child in danger. Councilmember Mariano.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have something to say that -- I have a box here with one of these laser pointers, and I had hoped to have someone here from Wills Eye Hospital; he called up at the last minute and couldn't come, one of the eye doctors from down there. But basically the box says, it says: "Please note that the laser radiation is harmful to the eye. Do not look directly into the aperture while the laser is in operation." Well, you could look into it, which would be pretty dumb, but if someone's shining it in your eye, it could hurt your eye, depending how close you are. These things are available everywhere. I consider this a two-part legislation. This one will take care of what it says, will regulate the use of these. Then we're going to do what the gentleman from the First Union Center said, we're going to try to get that in in the next couple 19 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 weeks. L&I was here this morning, they couldn't stay around. They're drafting legislation for me, which we could regulate the use in the second part, the second part, there, you know, the misuse of it, and we're going to do that, but I think it has to be two parts. That's why I wanted to do it this way.
Any other Councilmembers have anything to add? Councilmember Nutter.
I don't know whether it's for the police or the gentleman from the Center. Are these devices illegal? LT. COLARETTE: I don't know of any law forbidding the use or the manufacture of laser pointers.
And, I guess, at least for the moment, based on what Councilmember Mariano just said, I mean, this particular bill 23 will not necessarily do anything for you as it relates to the little thing that you showed with the hand or pointing out performers or anything 20 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 like that 'cause this just talks about who can sell them. It has nothing to do with behavior or anything like that or --
Well, I can answer, if I may. I think the issue of a juvenile purchasing one with an adult, you know, there has to be something there. That's an educational tool that at least makes the parents aware that there is a problem. But as far as changing behavior, there's nothing here because they can still come into our building and they can still be on the street if, in fact, their parents have allowed them to purchase one.
Right, or they bought it for them. LT. COLARETTE: Or they bought it for them, right. But at least there's an education of saying, you know, why do I have to sign for it. At least it educates 'em to the fact that there is a problem with laser pens.
Right. And is there now under discussion that there will be regulations on how this can used, whether it's an 21 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 adult or a juvenile, that you wouldn't be able to point it at people? I mean, what's the offense?
A lot of the things that we have down at the Center that affect behavior that the police write citations for. I would like to see it go that way that if, in fact, you're using --
You mean like rowdyism or being drunk or disorderly conduct or something?
That kind of thing, the sort of conduct where they write them up and it's a summary offense. I would like to see that because that actually might help us to change the behavior, because we do it to educate people that come in the building, we tell them that they're not allowed to use them. But we only either take the laser if they use it or we escort them out of the building. So all lose really is the laser pen or the cost of the ticket to enter. But our policy down there is very strict because of the types of crowds that we have. Anyone that's there that causes a problem, the police will cite them. 22 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 So if this helps us to get the word out that people come, especially if they come in more than once that, in fact, this is what will happen if don't control your own behavior. And that's really where I would like to see it go, as a behavioral aspect of being able to control them.
Who are the primary sellers of these things? I mean, where can you buy these?
I have never purchased one but I know for a fact that at wrestling in particular, there will be vendors outside in our lots and on the streets selling laser pens. And they're very cheap; you can get them for about $15. And if you watch wrestling, if you're into wrestling, at every event that's on TV, you'll see laser pointers, hundreds of laser pointers on the ring and on the performers, the wrestlers. And, you know, that helps out to sell them.
You can buy these anywhere. I mean, like he said, out in the lot. 23 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 I bought one on South Street, I bought one on the Boardwalk in Wildwood, New Jersey. When I first started this idea to do this, I narrowed it down to the regulation, but like this gentleman's saying from First Union Center, it looks like we have to -- I have following legislation being drafted to follow where the actual usage is. You know, and it can be cited, just as you mentioned, as possibly as like drinking at the Vet, same deal. They can write a ticket and it would be -- what is it, a summary offense, Councilman? And that's what would happen.
But the regulation that I'm trying to do now, what's going to probably happen is that if you type in "laser pointer" on the Internet, they're so available now. Six months ago, when I thought of this legislation, they weren't that available. They've become so common now that this is just step in a two-step process.
Councilman, did you 24 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 say that L&I had been here but they left?
Well, they were here. They thought there was a hearing for L&I at 9, and I spoke with --
At 11. John Campbell was here, and he had to go somewhere else, but I had talked to him previously, and he's almost ready with that.
Probably Councilman Mariano can give the answer to this. I wanted to know why the bill is limited to minors. I'm following up on what Councilwoman Verna said. Because it seems to me that if parents can do it, they're going to be hard-put to resist doing it on behalf of this kids, and you're going to continue to have the same problem. If there is a problem, it seems to me it's as bad a problem whether an adult does it or a child does it. 25 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657
I think the problem has gotten worse as the time goes on. The technology changed so fast. From June and July, when I considered this legislation, they've become cheaper. They went from $125 two years ago -- which was something that everybody probably couldn't afford unless you were or a college professor or someone in an office and you were doing demonstrations -- to $30. Now they're down to $9. And certainly, they'll probably be $5 before Christmas. We wanted to do it like regulating the use of spray paint, but as we got into it and had this bill introduced, I saw that, as I just spoke with Councilman Nutter, that we're probably going to have regulate more the usage next. But I think this is a start.
I may have missed this, and I apologize. What is the problem, other than that the performers and I understand the police are 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 concerned that they might see a beam and that can be confused for a gun with a laser site on it, but what is the magnitude of this problem?
This touches on pretty much sort of Councilwoman Verna's question too. The problem is how people behave with these, and that's why we're trying to regulate behavior, their usage. But behavior, a lot of young people take these on South Street on a crowded Saturday night, people will take that pointer point out a female's. . .
Right. I was trying to think of a nice way to say it.
Private parts. And maybe Councilman Longstreth could demonstrate that on me, I don't know.
It just causes -- I've seen different scenes where, Oh, you did that 27 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 you, pointed at my girlfriend? It's a big deal. I didn't realize it was that big of a deal till I've seen it two or three times. I saw down the shore but then I saw it back here in September.
Just in response to Councilman Nutter's question, it can have a harassing effect when you're walking along 'cause I noticed that down the shore. Suddenly you're surrounded, your feet level, by these red dots and don't know what they are, and you sort of move away from it because you don't know what it is, and it follows you. And I heard a lot of complaints from a lot of the adults about the annoyance. They don't know whether they're being targeted by somebody for some purpose, and they start looking around at who's doing what. You can't see anybody because it's a small thing and could be hidden. So, as I say, it has a harassing effect. And if it's a young woman, she doesn't know whether it's a group of men going to be after 28 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - 980657 her or what.
So I just think it's not a good practice. And I think people ought to be able to be free to walk around without being followed by these red dots.
And also, Councilman, I think we're missing one point -- the actual damage that it can do to your eye or my eye. Imagine a 3-year-old or a 2-year-old where their eyes aren't totally developed.
So I would assume the attempt these now for sale is the first step in --
And the next set of legislation would be dealing with behavior.
The shore must be an interesting place in the summertime.
No, I think I'll 29 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 stay up here in West Philly.
Thank you very much. Any further questions? (No further questions.)
Seeing none, thank you very much, gentlemen, for coming in. We'll now move to Bill No. 980780, which is an ordinance to amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of the following area of the City from partly Class "R-15" Residential and partly Class "Recreational" to a single designation of Class "RC-4" residential: Southeasterly corner of 21st Street and Hamilton Street, containing in frontage along 21st Street, approximately 298 foot, and along Hamilton Street approximately 320 feet. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Richard Lombardo, from the Planning Commission, and I'm here today to speak on Bill No. 980780. As you said, this is a bill to rezone 30 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 approximately one acre of land at 25th and Hamilton -- the 21st and Hamilton, I'm sorry, on the map on your left, my right, which Mr. Kramer's pointing to. The existing zoning is R-15 and class "recreational." If anyone's familiar with this site, what the site is, it's actually a hole in the ground or a railway cut that exists behind the Rodin Museum. What is proposed by this bill and a subsequent -- or a companion bill, which is a public property bill, would be for the City, through PAID, to transfer basically what is the slope of the railway easement, but it's owned by the Fairmount Park Commission and some land behind the Rodin Museum, which today is more of a service and loading area, not very well maintained. Two of the parties that are interested here who proposed to use that land along with the land that they own -- they own the remainder of this one acre parcel of land -- and develop that site with a hotel. I believe the hotel will be a 23-story building, will have roughly 48,000 square feet of retail and office space in it, both underground 31 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 and above-ground parking. The above-ground parking will be on levels of structured parking 4 garage, 252 units of hotel rooms. I believe these will be suite hotels. The proposed developer is here with his architect and will get into the detailed plans. This proposal, given the fact that the number of actors involved on the public side -- it's land owned by Fairmount Park, it's under the jurisdiction of the Art Museum, the Rodin Museum, and it's had to go through a number of meetings and approvals. I believe it's been to the Art Commission, the Art Museum, and the Fairmount Park Commission as well as the Planning Commission for review. The reason it's being rezoned to RC-4 is that the -- well, the R-15 would allow a building of this size, it would allow an 18-story building, and that building could be used as a hotel in terms of the rooms, the hotel as a residential use. The other aspects of the hotel -- the restaurants, the office space the shops, the commercial activity would not be permitted in the%-15 residential, so the proposal here is to 32 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 zone it RC-4 residential. RC-4 residential is a residential district that allows some limited accessory commercial to go within the same building, and it is a district. That was drafted for uses like a hotel or an apartment building that would have some ground floor retail or services for the tenants of that live above the -- in the upper floors of the building. For the record, the Planning Commission had its meeting on November 5, 1998, and recommended approval of this bill.
I believe it -- I'm trying to think if somebody abstained. It would have been -- I believe it was -- it would have been unanimous of the people voting. I just don't know the number of members there, if anybody abstained for any reason. But no one voted against it.
If you have any questions about the RC-4, the RC-4 basically is a 33 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 floor area district. It has requirements for public space and open space. The public space and open space will be met both on this site. Part of their deal with the Fairmount Park Commission and the Art Museum is they will also improve the space behind the Rodin Museum, which is, like I said, a servicing area. They also will be providing off-street parking. They're actually doing two sort of levels of parking -- underground parking and above-ground. The underground parking with accessory to the hotel will also provide parking for patrons of the museum as well as there has been talk about having direct access to the lower level of the hotel for access to restaurants and shops for people coming to the museum.
Just where is Hamilton Street? Is it between Spring Garden and Callow Hill?
North of Callow Hill. 34 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780
No. All that's there on that block now is the Rodin Museum. And if you were to go out to this site today, you would see a railroad cut. The building site is actually a railroad cut that used to be -- used to be used by Conrail. One of the prime uses was to carry newsprint to The Inquirer. In earlier days, it carried other freight to the 401 North Broad building. The buildings no longer use the rail service.
It is two blocks to the -- it's one block west of the Youth Study Center.
But in about that same location from a north-south range.
Yeah, about the same location. It's one block off the Parkway. Of course, the Parkway's going up in a diagonal.
Was there a hearing 35 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 by the Planning Commission.
My understanding was that there was a developer who was asked to have these community meetings, I think, before this thing was even introduced, so I will let him speak to that. But by the time they came before the Planning Commission, they had been before the Art Museum, they had been before the Logan Square Neighbors Association, they had a written agreement with the Logan Square Neighbors Association. They've been to the Fairmount Park Commission, they've been to the Art Commission. The Art Commission has to review it. Part of this on had been land adjacent to Fairmount Park and the Art Museum because they're doing a joint sort of improvement of the area around the Rodin Museum.
Right now it's open 36 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 space?
The ground level is open. When you go out there and look at it, what you're looking at is a railway cut.
Particularly in the downtown area, and I guess it would apply to other areas, I'm very concerned about losing open space. Because for the current residents, it may present a problem. We have so little of it in many parts of Center City, but that would be a concern that I would have. But you say that this was discussed fully at the hearing before the Planning Commission?
Yes, it was. And to answer your question, I mean, it is open, as physically, there's nothing there, but it is a railroad cut. And what land is there, even if the land is coming from the Fairmount Park Commission, is the slope of that cut. It's not a part of the park that's actually usable by park patrons or patrons of the museum.
But it's open as far as the eyes are concerned. It may not be usable. 37 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780
Yeah, it is open as far as the eyes are concerned, but the trade-off here would be improvement of the land that is behind the museum to a level -- well, the Fairmount Park Commission can speak for themselves. But that was the rationale of the deal, was the improvement of the area around it.
The planned use is a hotel, some retail space and some office space as well as -- as I said, off-street parking both for the hotel patrons and the museum patrons.
Okay. Hotels seem to be springing up everywhere. Is that true of Market Street East? Which, to my consternation, since it's the first place I had a law office on, I understand the building is totally empty?
"Market Street East," it used to be called. Now it's One East 38 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 Penn Square.
Right. And the Marriott is the next block over, and then the PSFS is going to be a hotel and --
The City Hall annex is going to be -- yeah, it's going to be a Marriott.
And this building right across from City Hall is between the City Hall annex and the --
Yeah. One East Penn Square, I haven't heard of anybody wanting to do a hotel there yet, but that doesn't mean that it may not happen there in the future, but. . .
All right, thank 39 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 you.
Mr. Lombardo, I don't know if you indicated how many stories the hotel would be.
The hotel would be 8 stories. I think it's 18 stories of hotel above a 9 couple levels of off-street parking. It's 18 10 stories of room and a total of 20 stories. 11
Thank you very 12 much. 13 Any other questions for these 14 witnesses? 15 (No further questions.) 16
Thank you. Who 17 else do you have plan to have to testify? 18 (Paul Deegan comes forward.) 19
Good morning. I'm Paul 20 Deegan, representing PIDC and PAID. I have submitted written testimony and I think Mr. Lombardo -- I think a lot of it will be redundant as far as the description of the actual project. But I would like to say, to get to the second page of my testimony, to point out the 40 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 benefit of a new hotel. It will be 225 new hotel rooms, when the City is trying to reach a goal for the year 2000 for the Republican Convention. The developer has also been negotiating for many months with Fairmount Park Commission, and the developer's agreed to provide significant capital improvements and ongoing maintenance to the adjacent Rodin Museum property. And this will be a public benefit that the developer of the hotel will provide. They've met with the Art Museum people, who actually operate the Rodin Museum, and with the Fairmount Park Commission. And they've gotten into quite a bit of detail of what kind of capital improvements will be made to the property. So the end result will not only be a new, attractive hotel, but it also will improve the Rodin Museum property, which is one of the City's tourist and convention attractions. Another significant point, especially in light of Councilman Cohen's comments, this hotel will be 100 percent privately financed. There will be no TIFs, there will be no KOZs, no 25 empowerment zones, no enterprise zones, no special 41 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 services district. This will be all privately funded. And a developer has, you know, put a significant part of his business out to get this project moving, but he has not asked the City for any public financing for the project. It's also what I think or I think what many people think from looking at the brochure that's been handed out, the site now is basically an eyesore, it's an overgrown vacant lot. It slopes down to an old railroad -- an abandoned railroad right-of-way, and the park land -- I think it's unusual for the park to agree to sell the property. But in this case, this park land has such little use that Fairmount Park is okay with conveying title to the developer through the Philadelphia Authority. So for those reasons, we support the proposed rezoning.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions? (No questions.)
Thank you. Who's going to testify for the 42 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 developer? (Joseph Pacetti comes forward.)
Good morning, sir. Please identify yourself for the record.
Sir, you need to bring the microphone close and speak very loudly.
Yeah, okay. I speak very low most of the time. My name is Joseph Pacetti (ph.). I have offices here at the Bourse Building, we've had offices downtown Philadelphia for the past 30-some years. Most of my development has been basically out of the City, although I have developed a few items in the City back in the '70s. We've purchased this parcel and one or two others in the City that I've had for quite long time. About ten years ago, we went through the process of introducing this same bill, I believe, and the economics at that time were such that the real estate market had just disappeared. We've recently, because of the influx 43 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 of growth and hotel and also the economy, we sort of dusted off this project and went through the process all over again and revisited the entire group and the entire regulating authorities to get this bill to where it is today. The hotel in question, by the way -- I just want clarify one point -- is a suite hotel, primarily an extended state facility, which is more in conforming with that particular area than a transient type of hotel. We spent a lot of time, a lot of effort, and a lot of design time and negotiating with the various groups. I would like for this board to give us their consent to proceed with this project. Also, if you look at the facility that's there now, it's totally -- it totally doesn't do anything for the environment currently at the location, and I would appreciate if we could get some assistance from the group to permit us to proceed after ten years of process. Thank you.
Thank you for your testimony. Are there any questions for Mr. 44 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 Pacetti? (No questions.)
Mr. Egan, do you have anything to add? Or if you would identify yourself, please.
Yes. My name is Joseph Egan. I am the real estate consultant to Joe Pacetti and his projects here and also in projects in other parts of the country. I would add two things to his statement. One is this is going to be an all-suites hotel. And I think the point of building an all-suites hotel, we were sensitive to making sure we protect the character of that neighborhood. The other is that it's going to employ a hundred-plus people, and this is a project that would be a real complement to the commerce of this city. And in addition to that, it will be a real complement to the Parkway because of the process that we went through here -- I mean, from the neighborhood group, Logan Square, which is the name of the designated neighborhood group in that area, all the way through the Art Commission and 45 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 the Rodin Museum and the Art Museum. And there's lots and lots of opinions about design when you build a building on the edge of the Parkway, which is a very discrete resource. And we came to a consensus which we think is a very fine building, an architectural statement. And great buildings make great cities, and this is a great building. And I've been involved in a lot of projects in the City, from the Gallery to the Convention Hall to Independence Mall to Penn's Landing. Believe me, this building will win awards, and it's something we feel very proud of. And we feel proud that we did this conventionally, without coming to the City for TIFs or incentives. Thank you.
Thank you very much for your testimony. Councilmember Cohen.
Mr. Egan or the developer or both, is it your understanding that the community is fully in support of this?
Well, I think the Logan Square community signed a trust agreement with us 46 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 on this building maybe five or six years ago. And we went back and briefed them and we asked them at the last meeting that we went to, would they help us talk to the neighbors regarding putting our servicing of the building underneath instead of leaving it up at the Rodin Museum. And, basically, there was a consensus in that group to do that. But they've signed an agreement with us in that area, and we went through that process and a fairly extensive one and a professional one. But every time you build a building 14 stories in the air, you aren't going to get total 15 consensus, you just aren't. 16
Well, Logan Square 17 Association, I have high regard for but I think 18 they represent one area. I think this location, 19 if my knowledge of the City's wards are accurate, 20 probably comes sort of in between several areas, and downtown Philadelphia's full of lots of community organizations.
Well, they are, and there's no question they have a right, and should have a right, to come in and voice their opposition or 47 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 support. And, you know, I've been in government and I recognize that fact. And there might be a community group -- we've met with other interests in this area. We didn't think, for example, the Art Museum -- but, generally, they were very concerned about how this building would relate to the Art Museum. We met with them, and we'll be glad to meet with anyone else if it's the Council's will to do that. However, in this market that we're in, when you set aside this long process of well over a few years and you get to now, in a time that we're between a stock market that is influencing interest rates and people are in an uncertain time for financing, we have some feeling that we have a window of opportunity to finance. And this is something you can check independently. The financing of hotels have now become very difficult, and we have a hard time holding our flag and we want to make sure that our flag is a top flag. So the longer we're delayed, this project moves away. And I don't think a city like ours can afford to have this project move away because -- 48 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780
Well, I don't think involvement of appropriate community groups, you know, causes delay. Generally, it provides an opportunity for the party to exchange views. And if it's done in good faith, generally, there's an agreement. That's the matter I'm concerned about.
And I concur, no 9 disagreement on that, Councilman. And your track record is significant in that area and something that I have always respected.
Thank you very much, thank you for your testimony. Is there anyone else to testify on this bill? Please come forward. (Arthur Plaxton comes forward.)
If anyone else is going to testify, please come forward.
My name is Arthur Plaxton (ph.). I live at 2022 Brandywine Street. I am the past president of the Spring Garden Civic 49 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 Association and an elected Democratic committeeman from the 17th Division of the 15th Ward. First, I wish to thank the committee for the opportunity to testify here. I would also like the committee to know that I had the opportunity of meeting with the developers and their architect yesterday afternoon. They were very helpful, they showed me their drawings and answered my questions. However, we are still -- I'm still urging you very strongly to vote against this particular bill. The change would allow the construction of a high-rise hotel. This plot of land is situated on the southwest corner of North 21st and Hamilton, not the southeast, as stated in the ordinance summary. It is the land immediately behind the Rodin Museum. Part is a portion of Fairmount Park, and the remainder is land below the natural grade level formerly occupied by railroad tracks leading into to the Philadelphia Inquirer buildings. The division which I represent is the division most affected by the proposed building. 50 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 The sentiment here is overwhelmingly against the construction of a high-rise building on the site. There are several important reasons. First, the Parkway is very heavily used, not only for various events for the entire city, but also on a daily basis by the residents of Spring Garden and Fairmount. We need an enlargement of the Parkway, not a reduction with even heavier use and traffic. Also, a high rise behind the Rodin Museum will act as a wall visually and psychologically, so to speak, isolating and throwing a shadow on the neighborhoods to the north. This isolation will depress property values and tend to reduce business north of the Parkway as people unconsciously see the high-rises as the northern boundary of Center City rather than considering Spring Garden and Fairmount as extensions of it. Of course, as a member of the Rules Committee, you're concerned with the interests of the City as a whole, not just our neighborhood. The case that the proposed zoning change is detrimental to the City as a whole is very 51 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 compelling. The Parkway is one of the major assets of Philadelphia. It's a magnificent, beautiful urban boulevard, unrivaled by anything in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, or King of Prussia, for that matter. It cannot help but favorably influence business people to locate here or tourists to visit here. The proposed zoning change site is approximately midway along the Parkway, which is lined with classical structures of about four stories, such as the Cathedral, Family Court, the Free Library, the Academy of Natural Sciences, Franklin Museum, Rodin Museum, and culminating in the Art of Museum. All of these are whose height is much less than their width. They have a human scale, so to speak. They have a degree of architectural unity. Do we really need to destroy this to build a hotel when there are numerous other sites for which can be found in the city? Is the dominating huge mass of a high-rise building a few feet away something that will enhance the attractive proportions and setting of the Rodin Museum?. 52 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 Given that we do not yet know what will eventually replace the Youth Study Center on the adjoining block, can we really intelligently decide what's the best use for this site? Now, you don't need to take my word on it. The next sunny day, maybe today, go and take a walk there. Go to the north side of the 2200 block of Spring Garden Street and ask, Where will the tower be? And you will not that the view it will block. And ask yourself, How compatible is a 20-story tower there with the rest of the Parkway?
Thank you for your testimony. Before I ask for questions and recognize the other gentleman, you had mentioned in your testimony that this is not the southeasterly corner.
What I've asked is for the Planning Commission and PIDC to determine whether, in fact, that is true. And if it is, there's a problem with the bill on its face, and that is, the title has to be changed, which 53 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 requires new legislation to be introduced, so we're going to try to get some confirmation. Just hold on one second. (Chairman Kenney confers with Mr. Lombardo.)
After you gentlemen are done testifying, we're going to have the Law Department come up and clarify this southerly and southwesterly issue and whether or not it's critical to the bill. So what I'll ask you to do, to the gentleman, if you could identify yourself for the record and proceed, then we'll ask whatever questions are appropriate.
Good morning. My name's Allen Rubin. I'm an attorney and I resident of Spring Garden, I'm past president of the Spring Garden Civic Association, and I have been on the board of that organization since 1968. We represent approximately 2,000 members and another several thousand occupants of the area between Spring Garden and Fairmount, the Art Museum and Broad Street. And, essentially, we have been responsible for the rebirth of that 54 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 neighborhood. We are an organization that started in 1965 and have succeeded in what you now know as "the Art Museum area." The property values, the tax base, all of these things have gone up 50-fold. And not only that, the taxes are collected. Ten years ago, I was on the site with Councilman Street and I believe the then-ward leader Bernice DeAngelis. And we looked very carefully at this sight because there was an application. And we came to the conclusion, all of us, that it was an inappropriate site to build that type of a building. One of the reasons, which has not been mentioned today, was because it affects the site lines of members of our community. If you stand out at Pennsylvania Avenue, the houses, 2601 Parkway House, all of those buildings, the site line of the Cathedral and City Hall will be blocked by this site. The site lines from some of the high decks on Green Street and on the fabulous restorations that have happened in the 2200 block of Green Street will also be affected by this site. 55 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 Something else has occurred since that ten-year span, which makes it even more inappropriate to build this building on this site. Fresh Fields has been built and is a hugely successful development and it is right behind the police station. It is where the old police station used to be, at 20th and Pennsylvania, directly across from the Youth Study Center. The police station has now moved to 21st Street. The emergency entrance for vehicles is essentially diagonally exactly across the street from the entrance to this garage. The trucks for Fresh Fields' loading dock is directly across the street from this entrance to this garage from this hotel. The street is approximately 30 feet wide. The 48 Bus turns there, it is a congested spot. There is also a child day care center directly across the street. So you have a day care center, you have police emergency vehicles, you have huge trucks backing up, all of which is across from the only entrance of this garage. It is an absolute diagram for disaster in terms of planning. It is a totally inappropriate site 56 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 aside from the fact that the site is much too small for a building of this size. It blocks the views and it is creating problems for the police, for the day-care center, for Fresh Fields traffic, and traffic is extremely because of Fresh Fields. And it's wonderful, Fresh Fields is a wonderful addition, but we cannot stand one more piece of density on that site. I think, in addition, we have not been consulted. There was testimony that the Logan Square had signed eight or ten years ago some kind of agreement. Logan Square is not as affected. It technically may be in Logan Square or may not be in Logan Square -- I don't want to get into the details, but it affects traffic from our area and views from our area, and the density would be insufferable from the standpoint of the quiet residential nature of our neighborhood. We have not been consulted. Someone mentioned that it was posted. I went to look for a posting; I could not find a posting. It was then pointed out to me that the posting for this hearing was on a pole this high in a parking lot which says "No Trespassing." Of course, I did go 57 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 in there and looked at it and I saw it. But it was an obscure a posting as I have ever seen anywhere.
I assume it was a posting for this hearing. It was on an -- there's an old iron fence, and in the corner of the iron fence, near the railroad cut, it is no more four feet high, wrapped around this post -- not on a stick, not out where you could see it. Wrapped around this post was what purported to be a legitimate posting for this hearing. Plus the fact that we had been on record from ten years ago with this same developer that they were opposed to his position. And, of course, we weren't consulted over the last months and months. And we are a presence in the City, we are well known by the Planning Commission, we are well known by every department, by our Councilman, by everyone. And, inadvertently, we were forgotten. Thank you.
Councilwoman Verna. 58 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780
I'm sorry, I was distracted. From your testimony, I understand that the developer never met with your civic association?
Well, then years ago, we met and said we did not like the proposal. We have not met with anyone, no. 10
That was one of the questions I was going to raise. Is that the reason that you were not at the Planning Commission public hearing? 59 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780
I did not even know of that hearing. We were never notified of the hearing by the Planning Commission, and we are in touch with the Planning Commission. I know personally the members that were here, they know me by name, they know my phone number, and I know Barbara Kaplan, and they know us and they know that we're active, and we have heard nothing from anyone on this.
One other question. Each of you has identified yourself as a past president of the Spring Garden Civic Association. MR. RUBIN; that's correct.
That's what I was going to enter into the record after the gentlemen completed their testimony. This is a letter from the current president of the Spring Garden Civic Association, a Patricia L. Freeland. And that's F-R-E-E-L-A-N-D. Basically, the letter is in complete agreement with the previous two testifiers. We will add it formally into the record.
All right, thank 60 12/1/98 COMMITTEE ON RULES - Bill 980780 you. That was the question. I was going to ask why were the two the past presidents here and if there was any consideration by the current administration of the association.
Well, we're presently on the board. I'm chairman of the zoning committee as well. Thank you.