COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, May 31, 2000 9:35 a.m. - - - BILL 000318 - Granting permission to PECO Energy to construct, install, maintain and operate use, repair, replace, and remove a wireless communications system over, under and across City streets. BILL 000317 - Authorizing McDonald's Corporation to construct an electrified marquee and icon. BILL 000320 - Amending an Ordinance entitled "An Ordinance authorizing the revision of lines and grades on a portion of City Plan No. 120 BILLS 000121 and 000218 (held until 6/12/00 9 a.m.) - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO, Chair COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN, Vice Chair COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center Plaza, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 I N D E X BILL 000318 PAGE Gregory Dudkin, VP Customer and Marketing Services, PECO Energy Co.--------------------- Douglas D. Faith, Manager, Information Technology, PECO Energy Co.------------------------------- 9 Edward D. McBride, Manager, County Affairs, PECO Energy Co.------------------------------------ 15 Sandra Goodwin, PECO Energy---------------------- 23 John J. Dougherty, Business Manager, IBEW Local 98-------------------------------------- 63 James Dollard, IBEW Local 98--------------------- 71 BILL 000317 Nancy Sen, Engineering Supervisor, Department of Streets--------------------------------------- 117 BILL 000320 Paul Loney, Manager, Survey Bureau, Department of Streets--------------------------------------- 119 - - - PUBLIC MEETING----------------------------------- 123 - - - 3 BILL NO. 000318
Good morning. The hearing of the Committee of the Streets and Services is now in session. I am Frank DiCicco, the Chair of the committee. With me today this morning are the Council Members Darrell Clarke, David Cohen, Richard Mariano, and Frank Rizzo. The Bills No. 000121 and 000218 are being held until June at 9 o'clock a.m. 11 the clerk will read the title of the next bill. 12
Bill No. 000318, an Ordinance grating permission to PECO Energy Company, a Pennsylvania Corporation, and its successors, assigns, agents, and contractors to construct, install, maintain, and operate, use repair, and replace, and remove a wireless communication system and appurtenances, in, over, under, and across public rights-of-way and city streets; and/or on certain city-owned or controlled street light fixtures, street light poles, and traffic signal poles as designated by the Streets Commissioner and the Commissioner of Public Property; and/or within or on the existing facilities owned by other entities holding a grant of permission pursuant to 4 BILL NO. 000318 other city ordinances; with the use of such wireless communication and system restricted solely to the internal use by PECO Energy Company for activities and services directly related to telemetric meter reading, including meter reading, outage management, metering services directly related thereto, and other related services for its electric and gas customers which may be approved by the Commissioner of Public Property, all under certain terms and conditions.
Is there anyone here who wishes to testify on this bill? Please come to the witness table. Identify yourself for the record, please.
Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Gregory Dudkin, I am vice-president of Customer and Marketing Services for PECO Energy Company.
5 million 5 BILL NO. 000318 electric customers and 420,000 suburban Philadelphia natural gas customers. My remarks today are focused mostly on the 438,000 electric service customers in Philadelphia County. The technology that I am referring to is automatic meter reading, or AMR as it is commonly known. For more than two years, a PECO Energy Meter Solutions Team reviewed all of the available meter-reading technologies and determined that the system we have adopted is the best of the best, the Schlumberger Corporation using the Cell Net Data Systems Technology. This is a wireless data communication system that will benefit consumers, as well as PECO Energy, by collecting data in a timely fashion from our 2 million meters in PECO Energy's service area, and will result in rendering timely, accurate bills to our customers. We currently attempt to read approximately 100,000 meters per day. Gaining access to customers' homes and businesses to read indoor meetings is a challenge each and every 6 BILL NO. 000318 month. Considering that 40 percent of meters in Philadelphia County are indoors, customers will no longer need to read their own meters or schedule appointments to accommodate their busy schedules. Furthermore, they will not have estimated bills as a result of our not being able to read the meters. The number of disputed bills is expected to decrease by as much as 90 percent. I know that the matter of estimated billing has been an issue raised by members of City Council when your constituents are faced with a large bill after several months of estimated readings. While we accommodate them with payment arrangements, it is a inconvenience just the same. Another benefit of AMR is security. Unfortunately, criminals have occasionally taken advantage of residents by posing as meter readers. This system eliminates monthly visits and, in essence, removes that risk, at least as it pertains to PECO Energy. We won't even need to visit a house 7 BILL NO. 000318 to read the meter when the customer moves in or out of a property. We will be able to read the meter from our offices. This will particularly benefit the city's university and college dormitories, as well as apartments and office buildings with their high number of people moving in and out. For these reasons and other considerations, we are planning to begin the project in Philadelphia. The way the system works is through a wireless network. The network is comprised of small radios mounted inside each meter that communicate wirelessly to hundreds of microcell controllers. The microcell controllers will be mounted on our utility poles, for the most part. In some areas, where our facilities are underground, we will mount the devices on city streetlights. I have enclosed photographs for your information. Data is sent through redundant hardwired sources to a system controller, where the data is verified and sent back to PECO for billing. This technology has a proven track record and is currently being successfully utilized 8 BILL NO. 7 million meters under contract. Other expected benefits of this system are accurate more timely meter readings, elimination of estimated bills, fewer billing errors, reduction in customer disputes, and the inability to transition to higher levels of service much quicker and easier than in today's environment. Future benefits will enable us to identify power outages. Now, only when there is a major interruption do we know unless the customer calls us. Additionally, in time we will be able to provide customers with more information about their emergency usage. For instance, if a large customer wanted to know weekly, daily, hourly load trends, we will be able to give them that information when they want it. We are excited about the better service that we are offering our customers through the automatic meter reading system and ask that you approve our request today. 9 BILL NO. 000318 I appreciate your attention and will answer any question that you may have.
Thank you. Any questions for this witness? Council Member Rizzo. Also let the record reflect that Council Member Goode is now in attendance.
Mr. Dudkin, welcome. There are many Water Department, other utility companies read meters remotely. This technology seems to be a little different than the others. How come there is no joint effort to get on the same page and do it jointly, like we colocated our cell sites on one pole, or Bell and the other carriers tried to get together. How come there has never been an effort to do that?
My name is Doug Faith. I am a manager in the Information Technology Department for PECO Energy. Mr. Rizzo, I think for the city as an example, there was some recent technology that was 10 BILL NO. 000318 installed by a company called Itron. And there are some fundamental differences in the technologies, in terms of the frequency bands, the FCC license per the frequency bands that they operate in. The meters currently today in use and read for Philadelphia Gas Works, and for the Philadelphia Water Department, typically are read through a man-based technology. The technology we are deploying here is utilizing a fixed network, which is a combination of the radio frequency devices we are looking to mount on the utility infrastructure, as well as street lights. So there are some differences in terms of the functionality, the fundamental radio frequency bands that they operate in. The example that we could apply here is that Schlumberger, who is the contractor to PECO, basically, for the maintenance and operation of the system of which we are buying the service from, could actually provide some of those man-based meter readings for the entire coverage. PECO, plus the Philadelphia Gas 11 BILL NO. 000318 Works, as well as the Philadelphia Water Department, from a man-based perspective. We couldn't read those over the Cell Net Fixed Network, because fundamentally they are different.
How many cell master roof locations are going to be required to make the system work within Philadelphia?
I believe, as far as the cell masters go, we are looking at about cell 12 masters. 13 Most of those will be located in 14 substations, maybe some building attachments, roof 15 tops. 16
I am thinking back 17 when you partnered with AT&T Wireless to do the 18 locations throughout the city. 19 And there was a prohibition about 20 putting any antennas or any type of equipment within 21 the City of Philadelphia on any of the utility poles 22 located within the city. 23 And now I see you are going to do 24 cell master attachments at ground level in the City 25 of Philadelphia. 12 BILL NO. 000318 You are actually going to attach this box, so we will see another piece of equipment, within the city. How many locations like that will exist?
I think the cell masters, which are the higher level, or higher power level devices, and typically you don't need nearly as many of those as the microcell controllers that would attach to the poles. Most of those installations within the city, to my knowledge, will probably be, again, at PECO substation locations, mounted onto a pole, with an antenna remotely mounted on the top of the pole. And there may be some building attachments, where they could physically be mounted on the roof top of a building. There's only of those devices, 21 though. 22
So there will be a 23 combination of roof mounted and there will be a 24 combination of pole mounted, and then there is 25 another MCC power pole installation. 13 BILL NO. 000318 You are talking a combination of only 26?
No; no. The cell masters, the larger devices, there will be about 6 within the city to support the operations in the 7 city. 8 The microcell controllers, which are 9 a lower level power device, are the devices that 10 will physically mount on the street lights or on the 11 utility pole, both. 12 I think for servicing the Center City 13 area, probably we will need approximately 200 of the 14 microcell controllers mounted on streetlights. 15
I am sure I am 16 going to have some additional questions. 17 But I would like to know, are you 18 going to limit the reading of meters with this 19 technology? 20 Is there any other services that are 21 going to grow as a result of this installation, 22 beside reading electric meters? 23
No. The core fundamental 24 use of this network is really for meter reading and 25 for enhanced energy services associated with meter 14 BILL NO. 000318 reading. It is really to provide a direct benefit for customer service in what we can deliver as a service to our customers.
I am trying to recollect -- and this will be my last question for now -- there was another organization in here, where Joe Doyle from the streetlighting department came in, and they asked for attachments to the streetlights. So now you want to attach to the streetlights, they want to attach to the streetlights. You want to attach a larger device to some utility poles that are located within the -- the picture doesn't suggest it is in a substation by the way. It looks more like a residential application here. You are aware of this other company that wants to do something similar to that? But I don't think it is to the magnitude of this size. It looked like a smaller attachment to the mast arm of the streetlight here, or to the arm of the streetlight. So there are two people after the same 15 BILL NO. 000318 spaces. Mr. Chairman, do you recollect that other company that was in here looking for okays to hook a device to the streetlights? I forget what that technology was. Mr. McBride may know. MR. EDWARD D. McBRIDE: Councilman, it was for Internet technology. And just to give you a perspective, there are 100,000 streetlights in the City of Philadelphia. There's 99,000 PECO poles in Philadelphia. And we are going to be attaching to approximately 200 city-owned streetlights. And the antenna that we are talking about is, as you have a picture of it there, it is quite small and, in fact, very obscure. But I wanted you to have the perspective of 200 versus 100,000 streetlights.
So it could either be a transformer, which you really don't have, you don't have anything that supports the electrical system. If you went out and added a transformer today that's larger than this device, you wouldn't need any approval from the city. So 16 BILL NO. 000318 basically this is an attachment that is smaller than a transformer that could -- MR. McBRIDE: It is much smaller. If you let me get the weight.
Are you talking about the MCC? The dimensions are here. inches high, 8 11.625 inches wide, 10.375 inches deep. 9
I think the point 10 that I am making is, that you could go to the same 11 location, install a transformer there, and this 12 device is smaller than any transformer that you 13 would install on that pole? 14 MR. McBRIDE: Absolutely that's correct.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some questions, but along Councilman Rizzo's line. While we are talking about the transformers, or these MCCs, the power pole installation, these are 38 pounds. If I got you wrong, Mr. McBride, please correct me. You are going to put some on the city lights? 17 BILL NO. 000318 MR. McBRIDE: That's accurate.
Why don't you just put them on your own poles? MR. McBRIDE: We are doing that.
So I guess where you are doing the city lights, you have to. MR. McBRIDE: The ones that we have asked permission to put on city facilities are because there are no aerial facilities for us to attach to of our own.
So Councilman DiCicco gave the dimensions. These are 38 pounds, they are 10 feet, 10 inches deep, 14 inches wide, like that? MR. McBRIDE: Well, I would say this way.
That way. Here it is, 14 inches by 11.6 by 10 deep, 38 pounds. How high up would these go?
Typically, we like to get them up in the 20 to 25 foot range. 18 BILL NO. 000318
Actually, the installation is being performed by Exelon Infrastructure Services.
And explain to me who Exelon is. Because I pay PECO my electric bill. I don't know anybody.
Exelon is, essentially, a subsidiary of PECO Energy. And Exelon has been subcontracted by Schlumberger, who is our primary contractor for this system for installation.
But who will actually do the work? Will they be linemen, will they be PECO linemen who get their paycheck from PECO?
Will they be linemen, will they be electricians, will they be truck drivers, City Council people? What will they be?
I believe most of them have utility background, whether they have been a 19 BILL NO. 000318 lineman or some outside force.
I am not trying to be smart, but a utility background, I mean, I could have worked in a utility company answering a telephone. Will they be able to climb a pole? Will then able to operate? MR. McBRIDE: These are individuals that are currently working on utility poles.
We are not going to have anybody fall? MR. McBRIDE: We wouldn't have any public affairs person climbing a pole.
Unless you want to get back up to it. I could see you climbing up a pole, Mr. McBride, your size. MR. McBRIDE: Not in this lifetime.
But my question is safety, you know, not to be facetious. I want to make sure people who are qualified to do this work are actually doing this work, we are not having somebody that going around -- because we are going to get to that next, but Rizzo opened this can of worms. 20 BILL NO. 000318 Who is going to install the Cell Net electric meter modules, who is going to do that installation?
Now, the contractor, when you say, "a contractor," will it be an electrical contractor, a plumbing contractor, a woodwork contractor, an electrical contractor?
You mean, they go around and read meters, now they are going to open up the boxes and actually install something into the electric meter outside my house. So I guess this is going to be on the line side or the load side of the meter?
If you could identify yourself, for the record, sir so the stenographer can have it.
Again, my name is Doug Faith. I am a manager for Information Technology. The installation really requires a changeout of the meter in homes. So nobody is going to go in and remove the glass cover. They are going to pull the old meter out --
It would be like when I got upgraded from a 60 amp service, to a 200 amp.
So somebody has to pull a permit, right, in the City of Philadelphia? Change the meters, Ed, we have to pull permits; right? MR. McBRIDE: This is a utility function, Councilman, and this is all part of our normal operating procedure. There is no permit involved in this.
If it is on the 22 BILL NO. 000318 load side or the line side, we are talking about it comes down from your pole, and it comes in, then there is the meter. Now, the line side is the side that comes in from the meter into my power box. I mean, I got it backwards; that's the load side. The line side is what comes down from the drop down. Now, if you are going to take the meter out, you have to get a permit. MR. McBRIDE: No. 12
Ed, I'm telling you. I think that you need to have a permit. I was an electrician for 25 years. I still keep a current license. Any time you mess with somebody's -- unless PECO has this --
Could I interrupt for a minute? Mr. McBride, could you explain that? Do you have an explanation for that? It seemed like you were ready to try to explain. If someone could explain whether or not a permit is needed, and, if not, why.
Could we get 23 BILL NO. 000318 somebody from L & I, too? Do you work for L & I?
Excuse me. Ma'am, could you sit down and take your time. Please identify yourself.
Good morning. My name is Sandra Goodwin. I work for PECO Energy. And to give you some further information about what we're doing, during the normal course of business, if someone moves out or moves in, all we do is pull your meter out of the socket, put plates on it which blocks the service. The function to change your meter is exactly the same. We go out on a daily basis and change meters as a normal course of our business. We're not into the electrical workings of your home. It is really just pulling a meter from a socket, replacing it with another meter.
No. No. We are really 24 BILL NO. 000318 just pulling our device, the same we do every day to meet regulatory requirements. We will go out and pull meters, test them, and replace them with new meters as a course of business.
Let me ask you this question: If I go home tonight and I take a hammer and I smash the glass around my meter, and I call Mr. McBride in a panic, and he sends somebody around, you don't need a permit to do that.
But if I go hire McBride Electric, and he is a licensed electrical contractor -- not that there is any McBride Electric; Eddie is frowning that he is not -- and he is a licensed electrical contractor, when he comes out to upgrade my service from 60 or 100 amps, to 200 amps, maybe they are even doing 400 amps, I don't have a clue, he has to pull a permit. The electrical contractor has to get a permit.
Yes, an electrical contractor, to get into the internal wiring of your home, needs a permit and must be licensed.
But if he just 25 BILL NO. 000318 wants to upgrade your meter box from PECO --
Well, the meter box belongs to the customer. And a licensed electrician would also need a permit and have to perform that work. We are not performing that type of work.
You are not changing any wires, any drop wires from the service drop down to the line side of the meter?
We are not. We are not touching any of the customer property. The meter box itself belongs to the customer, was installed by a licensed electrician.
Must be UL approved, would have had a permit for that work at your property. We are not doing electrical work at your property. We are merely pulling a device out of the socket, replacing it with a new one. The same thing we would do if we were turning your service on.
Let me go on. BILL NO. 000318 Now, in this scenario, this group comes out. And who is going to be doing this work? They are not going to be licensed electrical contractors; right?
Now, do they have experience changing meters? Because when you pull a meter out, it is still live, it is still hot. And when you put those little plastic dummies on the end that you put in with the fork stick, the males that go in the females so you can't have electric, and then you put your band off and lock it off with that big key that nobody has except for Mr. McBride, he has one?
It is a slightly higher skill set than a meter reader, who does not normally touch the meter or pull it out.
But a much lower skill set than an electrician. So we are using the same subcontractor that reads our meters, does our 27 BILL NO. 000318 transfer of service work, so they already have the skilled work force.
What is their skill, though? I mean, they are not quite electricians, but they are better than meter readers. Is there a subcategory? I am concerned about safety. I mean, there is no Machiavellian plot here. I don't want somebody coming to my house, or one of my constituents' houses, pulling this meter out. Because, guess what? When you pull that meter out, it is under a full road. And Councilman Rizzo has 13 computers in his house. They crash, unless he knows they are coming. And I am sure you took all of that into consideration. Some people may be on life support. Some people it could mess up your VCR, you wouldn't be able to tape. Okay? Now, I don't want somebody, a meter reader, doing that. I think I need a licensed electrical contractor doing that, to be honest with you. I mean, that's your business 28 BILL NO. 000318 decision, and you leave yourself open to whatever kind of liability and lawsuits you have. You just need to know there is a litigious -- my constituency is litigious, and they are looking. Everybody is safety conscious, especially with electrical. We are not talking about plumbing, where the worst that can happen is water flows. So these aren't going to be electricians? That boggles my mind.
They are going to be the same skill set that performs the work for PECO Energy today, as well as most other utilities.
But these were contract employees? They are not PECO employees at this point? I mean, it is not the meter readers; right?
Where do these people get trained to have this semi-electrical skill? How do you get a semi skill? I mean, what do you just go to electrical apprentice school for a year and say, "I 29 BILL NO. 000318 know enough to pull a meter out and not kill myself"? Do you know how many amperes it takes to kill somebody? Do you have any idea?
PECO Energy has developed the training. We monitor the training and monitor the performance of all of the people in our field, and that includes our subcontractors.
No, sir, they are not. Some are. Now, we do perform a lot of this same type of work by our own employees. But some of our work is subcontracted out, our meter reading and our transfer service work.
Now, for the lawyers in this room and for the law department -- 30 BILL NO. 000318 not that this all matters, because I can say these things because I am not a lawyer, so therefore it is okay -- where are we getting these people, I mean, if they are not PECO employees? Do we just put this out for bid, PECO puts it out for bid? And we get together, me and Mr. Schrager there get together, and start a company and we bid on this work. And I go, "Well, see, I am an electrician. Mr. Schrager is a lawyer, he is not quite an electrician, so, therefore, he would be able to do this after training?" Where do people come from? Are we putting ads in the newspaper? I mean, they are or they aren't current PECO employees?
The contractor is hiring the folks. I am assuming they have put an ad in the paper. I don't know how they have gone out to get these people. But they are being properly trained to do the task. We are very concerned about employee safety, as well as public safety. And we would not 31 BILL NO. 000318 jeopardize public safety or an employee or a contractor's safety with folks not properly trained. That's our business. We understand it. We can train these folks properly.
See, I am still concerned. I hate to take up all this time, but this is a problem, Ed. Safety is a big deal. Again, who are these people? Are they PECO employees that are trying to better themselves, or are they PECO employees that are going to go out that used to read the meters? Because that's what I thought they were, and you are trying to help them and give them another semi-trade. Is that what we're doing here? Can we say that? Are you going to hire people for $5 an hour? I mean, let's ask the big question. How much are these people getting paid? An electrician makes about $30 an hour.
Mr. Dudkin, what is your title here? You are the chairman? No. 25
Vice-President of marketing, and you don't know these answers? You know, you come here in front of this committee, you should know these answers. I want to know who the people are, where they live, how much they are going to be paid, exactly how many hours they are going to be trained. I mean, I was an electrician. I am still an electrician, and I am proud of it. I sat out at that apprentice school for five years. I took the four-year course in five years. So I have extra knowledge, and I am learning every day. I can't understand how -- you could short something out and blow up a meter in front of you just by a little piece of tiny copper thread of a strand of wire could short it out. You should be better prepared. Does anyone else at this table have the ability to answer these questions?
Okay. Who are these people? Who are they going to be? Are they ex-PECO employees? Yes or no. 33 BILL NO. 000318
Some are. Some are absolutely ex-PECO employees. Other are employees who have been recruited by this contractor who are put through our training program, and diligently tested and monitored. We perform this work 600,000 times a year, or more, every year, safely.
But the people who come out and change the meters in Philadelphia are people that work for --
Councilman Mariano, I think, in fairness, we should allow them to finish the answer. You are kind of anticipating their next.
I'm sorry, Mr. 34 BILL NO. 000318 Chairman. I am not. She is not giving me --
Councilman, the lady is going to answer your question. I think what's happening, you are doing it to me right now, you are anticipating your next question. I would like to hear the answer, as well.
Mr. Chairman, I am not that bright to anticipate you or her. What I want to know is, and she is avoiding my question, Mr. Chairman --
Mr. Chairman, who are these people? That's all I want to know.
Councilman, nine -- ten times you have done it to me. I would like to hear the answer, as well. I think your questions are good questions. But I am not -- and I don't know about the rest --
Well, maybe if you would quit interrupting and let --
Councilman, please. I would like to hear the response, and I think the other members of the committee would like to hear the answer to your question. I am only asking that if you would slow it down.
I am asking you to slow it down because I have not heard all of the answers 36 BILL NO. 000318 to your questions, and I am not certain if the other members have. And I would like the record --
And so would I. We are trying to achieve the same ending here. But if I could just one thing, they have had ten minutes.
Councilman, you have been asking questions for the better part of ten minutes, and I am not cutting you off. I am just asking you one more time, I would like to hear the response so the record will be clear.
This is for my constituency. I just need to knows answers. Let me 37 BILL NO. 000318 rephrase the one question. One question at a time, because I don't want to confuse the Chairman or anyone else here, any of the assistants or anybody else. Who are these people, and how much are they being paid? MR. McBRIDE: Councilman, these are PECO employees and employees that work for the contractor that is currently doing this kind of work and reading our meters. They are going to go through our training module, just like all of our employees have gone through to change meters. And then Ms. Goodwin said, we do this 600,000 times a day, with employees that have gone -- or a year, with employees that have gone through the exact same training module. Exactly, no 19 different. And we expect that these employees, when trained, will go out and carry out the duties no differently than the current employees.
Mr. Chairman, could I just ask a followup on that question? MR. McBRIDE: Also -- 38 BILL NO. 000318
I would like to follow up. Is there any difference in the pay scale that the employees who are doing that work, the 600,000 or so functions that are performed today, will there be any change in the pay scale as it relates to what this new change or this new function will be? Does anyone have the answer to that? Since it is basically the same kind of work, and the same people, is there a change -- MR. McBRIDE: No, there will be no 14 change. One of the things that this does, by hiring these employees, is, it extends the inevitability of their employment termination once automatic meter reading is done. You know, basically we are trying to train them to change out the meters and extend their employment. As you may be interested, I mean, this is a working group that's 74 percent minority. And we are going to put them in the same exact training module that we currently put our employees 39 BILL NO. 000318 in. As Mr. Dudkin mentioned, safety is a serious priority for us. And I think Councilman Rizzo knows that probably better than all of us. So we don't want to put anybody in jeopardy. It was mentioned earlier about the computers going off and the VCR blinking. No one is going to have their meter changed without proper notification. So they will get an opportunity to power down their house.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. How much are we paying these people an hourly rate? Do we have any idea?
Now, these people -- I want to say this slow, because I don't want anybody to get mad or anybody to misunderstand this -- these people that may have worked for PECO that you are training the same people, I am a little confused here, really, because I am not involved with the inner workings of who PECO sends out. 40 BILL NO. 000318 I always thought when someone came out and did anything to my house and my meter, he was qualified. I just figured he was an electrician or a lineman, at least an electrician if he is working on that, if he is up on a pole. Maybe not. Maybe you have the subcategory that I don't know about. Maybe Councilman Rizzo can enlighten us on that. But these people that you are sending to this safety training, they go to the same training that the people that are coming out go to now. But this never happens. You still have that, where the guys come out that aren't linemen, aren't electricians, that are messing with -- or not messing with, but are changing meters? MR. McBRIDE: The people that currently change out our meters now are not linemen; they are energy technicians.
Now, what kind of schooling do they have to go to? 41 BILL NO. 000318 MR. McBRIDE: They go through whatever training modules they need to do their job.
Do you know the time of that? Is it a month, a year, two years? MR. McBRIDE: No, I don't know. And it would be based on what tasks they are going to perform. And the time isn't the element; it is the quality of education.
Right. Could you find out for the people on this committee and send us that, how many hours these people need to go for training? Listen, I know PECO's safety. And I am sure it is way above what it has to be for the kind of job that PECO categorizes that in. Now, before someone told me that you don't have to get a -- we don't have to get a meter-- do you have to get this inspected? Do we need to get this inspected when we change that? Do you have like an internal inspection from PECO? Do you have like a crew chief that comes out, and maybe there are five or six or ten, and he is in charge of ten installations, and he says, "Look this group here did ten. This is 42 BILL NO. 000318 right, this isn't?" I mean, there is safety followup after they get this whatever classroom time there is?
These individuals that will be performing the installations are also backed up with a higher skill level foreman. There are also quality auditors that are following the people, checking their work. We are also monitoring on databases to make sure that the information that they are passing back for our billing is accurate. And we are doing that almost on an hourly basis.
Let me see. Now, the people that PECO are keeping here that are permanent PECO employees, the ones I am concerned about are the new ones and where they are coming from. And Mr. McBride gracefully let us know that they were 70 percent minority, and I commend you for doing that. But you don't have any qualifications on being a city resident or a county resident or a state resident, or anything like that? 43 BILL NO. 000318
Are you receiving any state or federal funding to do this? You know, is there anything coming from the state or the feds to help you train these people?
Have you looked at the Welfare to Work rolls or anything? Is there anybody like that on there?
Is PECO involved in picking these people, or are your subs just putting ads in the paper and bringing these people in? Is that how it is working?
The subcontractor is responsible for the hiring of their staff. But we also have the right to be involved as far as evaluating the standard of which they are hiring.
I mean, they pick ten people, and you say this these ten are okay, but maybe this ninth is qualified, they may 44 BILL NO. 000318 fail a drug test or something?
They are all required to pass drug and alcohol screening prior to employment.
You are not recruiting for this; right? The contractor does the recruiting?
Thank you. Does the city receive any particular compensation for use of its poles or other equipment to which some of these may be attached, Mr. McBride? MR. McBRIDE: Yes, Councilman. There is a fee that was derived to cover the cost for the city. And that was worked out with the Law Department and the Public Property Department. So there is a fee for attachment.
And I'm not sure I 45 BILL NO. 000318 was clear at the interchange of questions and answers from Councilman Mariano. Tell me in what regard were you discussing the use of subcontractors to replace -- do they replace meters, or do just PECO employees do that?
It would be the subcontractors that would be replacing the meters. MR. McBRIDE: These are contractors that are currently working for us.
That replace meters in the normal course of business? MR. McBRIDE: Right. This would extend, this project would extend, their employment. By retraining them to change out the meters, that would effectively extend the ultimate termination. Once automatic meter reading is in, there would be a layoff in that work force.
You mean in the meter readers' work force? MR. McBRIDE: Right. This would extend their employment.
How many meter 46 BILL NO. 000318 readers do you employ directly?
Well, I could tell you that PECO Energy does not employ any directly, that that work is performed, again, by this contractor. And I believe the number is right around 300.
You mean these meter readers are not PECO employees? They are employees of a subcontractor? I mean, has PECO always used that system, or is that relatively new? We understood that, in the old days -- I now have an outside meter in my house, so I never see a meter reader. Apparently he comes in the driveway and reads the meters. But in the days when we saw meter readers, I thought they were PECO employees.
They were until 1994. And at that point we did outsource it to this contractor.
And what is this training you are giving to these meter readers in an effort to continue their employment? What are you training them for? To be able to replace meters?
Right. Just to be able to replace a meter and take the appropriate information down.
Well, once the meter is replaced, it lasts a long time, doesn't it?
Because I can never remember a replacement of a meter, except when it went to the outdoors from the indoors.
The average lifetime of a normal meter is about 30, 40 years. MR. McBRIDE: Councilman, one of the advantages to this system is something that is raised several times a year from your office. When a customer has an indoor meter, and because of their schedule it can't be read --
Right. MR. McBRIDE: -- even though the 48 BILL NO. 000318 meter remains indoors, after these new meters are put in, there will be no estimated billing. And occasionally your office will call us and say, "Hey, Councilman Rizzo got a high bill, and because he hadn't had a reading in four months because we couldn't get access, and they got a $600 bill. Can you help us with this?" And we give them terms to help them pay off the bill. That goes away. Now they will get a bill every month, in a timely fashion, with no need for meter readers to enter their property, which is also, as Mr. Dudkin mentioned, a serious safety concern throughout the city, people posing or acting as though they are meter readers and trying to get access to a property. So there's two benefits right off the bat from this process.
How about if a customer opts to terminate the service with PECO under the electric choice provisions; will the meter reading apply to those companies?
They will be able to use the same facilities? 49 BILL NO. 000318
Will this technology -- as a matter of fact, will even hopefully make the outdoor meters read monthly without an estimated bill, too. You know I had to get that in there, Ed. Will this give you the technology to shut off service without coming out? If somebody doesn't pay their bill, can you hit a couple of buttons and shut them off?
No, Councilman Rizzo, it will not have the capability to physically turn on and off service to a house.
Here is where I would like to go with this. And I have been handed a couple of notes. The locations, obviously you know 24 where they are going to be. And there was a 25 statement made that these pole-mounted locations 50 BILL NO. 000318 would be, hopefully, constructed at substation locations. I would like to agree to that in writing, that that is exactly what you are going to do. And I think, based on the size of the cell master, that you would hopefully be able to locate these at primarily -- and I am using information that we used to develop the cellular telephone locations -- that you are going to primarily use the roof-mounted locations at PECO facilities first. I mean, that's a smart business decision, save rent if you do it at your own service locations. And if you need a facility, could you give the city the first shot at the revenue, at putting that at a firehouse location, a police location, a municipal building? And I would like to know, if that's not the case, where you plan to put these. Because I am sure your engineering has already determined approximately where you are going to need them. And I think, based on an attachment 51 BILL NO. 000318 of almost a thousand pounds, that L & I should have some input on where these sites are going to be attached for many concerns, fire. PECO, you pride yourself on your safety record. And I think that the last thing you would want to do is attach something, a thousand pound, maybe 750, I remember, pound device to a location. And I think that at least that part of the component should have some interaction with Licenses & Inspection, especially if you pick a facility that's a public building or a location like that. So I think we might have to make some amendments or some agreements here that those points that I just made be considered. PECO locations, I would like to know the pole-mounted locations where they are going to be. Because I tell you the truth, it is getting to the point now -- and I don't want to use the word "clutter" to refer to your equipment -- but there is clutter all over the place, with all this new technology. 52 BILL NO. 000318 And I think I personally -- and I don't know about the rest of the committee -- want to know where you plan to put them. And if you are willing to say it here, then you are willing to put it in writing.
We, I believe, know of all the locations. We can sit down and review those locations with you. As far as L & I, we will comply with all applicable regulations that the city has as far as siting and the safety of this equipment.