COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, May 31, 2000 9:35 a.m. - - - BILL 000318 - Granting permission to PECO Energy to construct, install, maintain and operate use, repair, replace, and remove a wireless communications system over, under and across City streets. BILL 000317 - Authorizing McDonald's Corporation to construct an electrified marquee and icon. BILL 000320 - Amending an Ordinance entitled "An Ordinance authorizing the revision of lines and grades on a portion of City Plan No. 120 BILLS 000121 and 000218 (held until 6/12/00 9 a.m.) - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO, Chair COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN, Vice Chair COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center Plaza, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 I N D E X BILL 000318 PAGE Gregory Dudkin, VP Customer and Marketing Services, PECO Energy Co.--------------------- Douglas D. Faith, Manager, Information Technology, PECO Energy Co.------------------------------- 9 Edward D. McBride, Manager, County Affairs, PECO Energy Co.------------------------------------ 15 Sandra Goodwin, PECO Energy---------------------- 23 John J. Dougherty, Business Manager, IBEW Local 98-------------------------------------- 63 James Dollard, IBEW Local 98--------------------- 71 BILL 000317 Nancy Sen, Engineering Supervisor, Department of Streets--------------------------------------- 117 BILL 000320 Paul Loney, Manager, Survey Bureau, Department of Streets--------------------------------------- 119 - - - PUBLIC MEETING----------------------------------- 123 - - - 3 BILL NO. 000318
Good morning. The hearing of the Committee of the Streets and Services is now in session. I am Frank DiCicco, the Chair of the committee. With me today this morning are the Council Members Darrell Clarke, David Cohen, Richard Mariano, and Frank Rizzo. The Bills No. 000121 and 000218 are being held until June at 9 o'clock a.m. 11 the clerk will read the title of the next bill. 12
Bill No. 000318, an Ordinance grating permission to PECO Energy Company, a Pennsylvania Corporation, and its successors, assigns, agents, and contractors to construct, install, maintain, and operate, use repair, and replace, and remove a wireless communication system and appurtenances, in, over, under, and across public rights-of-way and city streets; and/or on certain city-owned or controlled street light fixtures, street light poles, and traffic signal poles as designated by the Streets Commissioner and the Commissioner of Public Property; and/or within or on the existing facilities owned by other entities holding a grant of permission pursuant to 4 BILL NO. 000318 other city ordinances; with the use of such wireless communication and system restricted solely to the internal use by PECO Energy Company for activities and services directly related to telemetric meter reading, including meter reading, outage management, metering services directly related thereto, and other related services for its electric and gas customers which may be approved by the Commissioner of Public Property, all under certain terms and conditions.
Is there anyone here who wishes to testify on this bill? Please come to the witness table. Identify yourself for the record, please.
Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Gregory Dudkin, I am vice-president of Customer and Marketing Services for PECO Energy Company.
5 million 5 BILL NO. 000318 electric customers and 420,000 suburban Philadelphia natural gas customers. My remarks today are focused mostly on the 438,000 electric service customers in Philadelphia County. The technology that I am referring to is automatic meter reading, or AMR as it is commonly known. For more than two years, a PECO Energy Meter Solutions Team reviewed all of the available meter-reading technologies and determined that the system we have adopted is the best of the best, the Schlumberger Corporation using the Cell Net Data Systems Technology. This is a wireless data communication system that will benefit consumers, as well as PECO Energy, by collecting data in a timely fashion from our 2 million meters in PECO Energy's service area, and will result in rendering timely, accurate bills to our customers. We currently attempt to read approximately 100,000 meters per day. Gaining access to customers' homes and businesses to read indoor meetings is a challenge each and every 6 BILL NO. 000318 month. Considering that 40 percent of meters in Philadelphia County are indoors, customers will no longer need to read their own meters or schedule appointments to accommodate their busy schedules. Furthermore, they will not have estimated bills as a result of our not being able to read the meters. The number of disputed bills is expected to decrease by as much as 90 percent. I know that the matter of estimated billing has been an issue raised by members of City Council when your constituents are faced with a large bill after several months of estimated readings. While we accommodate them with payment arrangements, it is a inconvenience just the same. Another benefit of AMR is security. Unfortunately, criminals have occasionally taken advantage of residents by posing as meter readers. This system eliminates monthly visits and, in essence, removes that risk, at least as it pertains to PECO Energy. We won't even need to visit a house 7 BILL NO. 000318 to read the meter when the customer moves in or out of a property. We will be able to read the meter from our offices. This will particularly benefit the city's university and college dormitories, as well as apartments and office buildings with their high number of people moving in and out. For these reasons and other considerations, we are planning to begin the project in Philadelphia. The way the system works is through a wireless network. The network is comprised of small radios mounted inside each meter that communicate wirelessly to hundreds of microcell controllers. The microcell controllers will be mounted on our utility poles, for the most part. In some areas, where our facilities are underground, we will mount the devices on city streetlights. I have enclosed photographs for your information. Data is sent through redundant hardwired sources to a system controller, where the data is verified and sent back to PECO for billing. This technology has a proven track record and is currently being successfully utilized 8 BILL NO. 7 million meters under contract. Other expected benefits of this system are accurate more timely meter readings, elimination of estimated bills, fewer billing errors, reduction in customer disputes, and the inability to transition to higher levels of service much quicker and easier than in today's environment. Future benefits will enable us to identify power outages. Now, only when there is a major interruption do we know unless the customer calls us. Additionally, in time we will be able to provide customers with more information about their emergency usage. For instance, if a large customer wanted to know weekly, daily, hourly load trends, we will be able to give them that information when they want it. We are excited about the better service that we are offering our customers through the automatic meter reading system and ask that you approve our request today. 9 BILL NO. 000318 I appreciate your attention and will answer any question that you may have.
Thank you. Any questions for this witness? Council Member Rizzo. Also let the record reflect that Council Member Goode is now in attendance.
Mr. Dudkin, welcome. There are many Water Department, other utility companies read meters remotely. This technology seems to be a little different than the others. How come there is no joint effort to get on the same page and do it jointly, like we colocated our cell sites on one pole, or Bell and the other carriers tried to get together. How come there has never been an effort to do that?
My name is Doug Faith. I am a manager in the Information Technology Department for PECO Energy. Mr. Rizzo, I think for the city as an example, there was some recent technology that was 10 BILL NO. 000318 installed by a company called Itron. And there are some fundamental differences in the technologies, in terms of the frequency bands, the FCC license per the frequency bands that they operate in. The meters currently today in use and read for Philadelphia Gas Works, and for the Philadelphia Water Department, typically are read through a man-based technology. The technology we are deploying here is utilizing a fixed network, which is a combination of the radio frequency devices we are looking to mount on the utility infrastructure, as well as street lights. So there are some differences in terms of the functionality, the fundamental radio frequency bands that they operate in. The example that we could apply here is that Schlumberger, who is the contractor to PECO, basically, for the maintenance and operation of the system of which we are buying the service from, could actually provide some of those man-based meter readings for the entire coverage. PECO, plus the Philadelphia Gas 11 BILL NO. 000318 Works, as well as the Philadelphia Water Department, from a man-based perspective. We couldn't read those over the Cell Net Fixed Network, because fundamentally they are different.
How many cell master roof locations are going to be required to make the system work within Philadelphia?
I believe, as far as the cell masters go, we are looking at about cell 12 masters. 13 Most of those will be located in 14 substations, maybe some building attachments, roof 15 tops. 16
I am thinking back 17 when you partnered with AT&T Wireless to do the 18 locations throughout the city. 19 And there was a prohibition about 20 putting any antennas or any type of equipment within 21 the City of Philadelphia on any of the utility poles 22 located within the city. 23 And now I see you are going to do 24 cell master attachments at ground level in the City 25 of Philadelphia. 12 BILL NO. 000318 You are actually going to attach this box, so we will see another piece of equipment, within the city. How many locations like that will exist?
I think the cell masters, which are the higher level, or higher power level devices, and typically you don't need nearly as many of those as the microcell controllers that would attach to the poles. Most of those installations within the city, to my knowledge, will probably be, again, at PECO substation locations, mounted onto a pole, with an antenna remotely mounted on the top of the pole. And there may be some building attachments, where they could physically be mounted on the roof top of a building. There's only of those devices, 21 though. 22
So there will be a 23 combination of roof mounted and there will be a 24 combination of pole mounted, and then there is 25 another MCC power pole installation. 13 BILL NO. 000318 You are talking a combination of only 26?
No; no. The cell masters, the larger devices, there will be about 6 within the city to support the operations in the 7 city. 8 The microcell controllers, which are 9 a lower level power device, are the devices that 10 will physically mount on the street lights or on the 11 utility pole, both. 12 I think for servicing the Center City 13 area, probably we will need approximately 200 of the 14 microcell controllers mounted on streetlights. 15
I am sure I am 16 going to have some additional questions. 17 But I would like to know, are you 18 going to limit the reading of meters with this 19 technology? 20 Is there any other services that are 21 going to grow as a result of this installation, 22 beside reading electric meters? 23
No. The core fundamental 24 use of this network is really for meter reading and 25 for enhanced energy services associated with meter 14 BILL NO. 000318 reading. It is really to provide a direct benefit for customer service in what we can deliver as a service to our customers.
I am trying to recollect -- and this will be my last question for now -- there was another organization in here, where Joe Doyle from the streetlighting department came in, and they asked for attachments to the streetlights. So now you want to attach to the streetlights, they want to attach to the streetlights. You want to attach a larger device to some utility poles that are located within the -- the picture doesn't suggest it is in a substation by the way. It looks more like a residential application here. You are aware of this other company that wants to do something similar to that? But I don't think it is to the magnitude of this size. It looked like a smaller attachment to the mast arm of the streetlight here, or to the arm of the streetlight. So there are two people after the same 15 BILL NO. 000318 spaces. Mr. Chairman, do you recollect that other company that was in here looking for okays to hook a device to the streetlights? I forget what that technology was. Mr. McBride may know. MR. EDWARD D. McBRIDE: Councilman, it was for Internet technology. And just to give you a perspective, there are 100,000 streetlights in the City of Philadelphia. There's 99,000 PECO poles in Philadelphia. And we are going to be attaching to approximately 200 city-owned streetlights. And the antenna that we are talking about is, as you have a picture of it there, it is quite small and, in fact, very obscure. But I wanted you to have the perspective of 200 versus 100,000 streetlights.
So it could either be a transformer, which you really don't have, you don't have anything that supports the electrical system. If you went out and added a transformer today that's larger than this device, you wouldn't need any approval from the city. So 16 BILL NO. 000318 basically this is an attachment that is smaller than a transformer that could -- MR. McBRIDE: It is much smaller. If you let me get the weight.
Are you talking about the MCC? The dimensions are here. inches high, 8 11.625 inches wide, 10.375 inches deep. 9
I think the point 10 that I am making is, that you could go to the same 11 location, install a transformer there, and this 12 device is smaller than any transformer that you 13 would install on that pole? 14 MR. McBRIDE: Absolutely that's correct.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some questions, but along Councilman Rizzo's line. While we are talking about the transformers, or these MCCs, the power pole installation, these are 38 pounds. If I got you wrong, Mr. McBride, please correct me. You are going to put some on the city lights? 17 BILL NO. 000318 MR. McBRIDE: That's accurate.
Why don't you just put them on your own poles? MR. McBRIDE: We are doing that.
So I guess where you are doing the city lights, you have to. MR. McBRIDE: The ones that we have asked permission to put on city facilities are because there are no aerial facilities for us to attach to of our own.
So Councilman DiCicco gave the dimensions. These are 38 pounds, they are 10 feet, 10 inches deep, 14 inches wide, like that? MR. McBRIDE: Well, I would say this way.
That way. Here it is, 14 inches by 11.6 by 10 deep, 38 pounds. How high up would these go?
Typically, we like to get them up in the 20 to 25 foot range. 18 BILL NO. 000318
Actually, the installation is being performed by Exelon Infrastructure Services.
And explain to me who Exelon is. Because I pay PECO my electric bill. I don't know anybody.
Exelon is, essentially, a subsidiary of PECO Energy. And Exelon has been subcontracted by Schlumberger, who is our primary contractor for this system for installation.
But who will actually do the work? Will they be linemen, will they be PECO linemen who get their paycheck from PECO?
Will they be linemen, will they be electricians, will they be truck drivers, City Council people? What will they be?
I believe most of them have utility background, whether they have been a 19 BILL NO. 000318 lineman or some outside force.
I am not trying to be smart, but a utility background, I mean, I could have worked in a utility company answering a telephone. Will they be able to climb a pole? Will then able to operate? MR. McBRIDE: These are individuals that are currently working on utility poles.
We are not going to have anybody fall? MR. McBRIDE: We wouldn't have any public affairs person climbing a pole.
Unless you want to get back up to it. I could see you climbing up a pole, Mr. McBride, your size. MR. McBRIDE: Not in this lifetime.
But my question is safety, you know, not to be facetious. I want to make sure people who are qualified to do this work are actually doing this work, we are not having somebody that going around -- because we are going to get to that next, but Rizzo opened this can of worms. 20 BILL NO. 000318 Who is going to install the Cell Net electric meter modules, who is going to do that installation?
Now, the contractor, when you say, "a contractor," will it be an electrical contractor, a plumbing contractor, a woodwork contractor, an electrical contractor?
You mean, they go around and read meters, now they are going to open up the boxes and actually install something into the electric meter outside my house. So I guess this is going to be on the line side or the load side of the meter?
If you could identify yourself, for the record, sir so the stenographer can have it.
Again, my name is Doug Faith. I am a manager for Information Technology. The installation really requires a changeout of the meter in homes. So nobody is going to go in and remove the glass cover. They are going to pull the old meter out --
It would be like when I got upgraded from a 60 amp service, to a 200 amp.
So somebody has to pull a permit, right, in the City of Philadelphia? Change the meters, Ed, we have to pull permits; right? MR. McBRIDE: This is a utility function, Councilman, and this is all part of our normal operating procedure. There is no permit involved in this.
If it is on the 22 BILL NO. 000318 load side or the line side, we are talking about it comes down from your pole, and it comes in, then there is the meter. Now, the line side is the side that comes in from the meter into my power box. I mean, I got it backwards; that's the load side. The line side is what comes down from the drop down. Now, if you are going to take the meter out, you have to get a permit. MR. McBRIDE: No. 12
Ed, I'm telling you. I think that you need to have a permit. I was an electrician for 25 years. I still keep a current license. Any time you mess with somebody's -- unless PECO has this --
Could I interrupt for a minute? Mr. McBride, could you explain that? Do you have an explanation for that? It seemed like you were ready to try to explain. If someone could explain whether or not a permit is needed, and, if not, why.
Could we get 23 BILL NO. 000318 somebody from L & I, too? Do you work for L & I?
Excuse me. Ma'am, could you sit down and take your time. Please identify yourself.
Good morning. My name is Sandra Goodwin. I work for PECO Energy. And to give you some further information about what we're doing, during the normal course of business, if someone moves out or moves in, all we do is pull your meter out of the socket, put plates on it which blocks the service. The function to change your meter is exactly the same. We go out on a daily basis and change meters as a normal course of our business. We're not into the electrical workings of your home. It is really just pulling a meter from a socket, replacing it with another meter.
No. No. We are really 24 BILL NO. 000318 just pulling our device, the same we do every day to meet regulatory requirements. We will go out and pull meters, test them, and replace them with new meters as a course of business.
Let me ask you this question: If I go home tonight and I take a hammer and I smash the glass around my meter, and I call Mr. McBride in a panic, and he sends somebody around, you don't need a permit to do that.
But if I go hire McBride Electric, and he is a licensed electrical contractor -- not that there is any McBride Electric; Eddie is frowning that he is not -- and he is a licensed electrical contractor, when he comes out to upgrade my service from 60 or 100 amps, to 200 amps, maybe they are even doing 400 amps, I don't have a clue, he has to pull a permit. The electrical contractor has to get a permit.
Yes, an electrical contractor, to get into the internal wiring of your home, needs a permit and must be licensed.
But if he just 25 BILL NO. 000318 wants to upgrade your meter box from PECO --
Well, the meter box belongs to the customer. And a licensed electrician would also need a permit and have to perform that work. We are not performing that type of work.
You are not changing any wires, any drop wires from the service drop down to the line side of the meter?
We are not. We are not touching any of the customer property. The meter box itself belongs to the customer, was installed by a licensed electrician.
Must be UL approved, would have had a permit for that work at your property. We are not doing electrical work at your property. We are merely pulling a device out of the socket, replacing it with a new one. The same thing we would do if we were turning your service on.
Let me go on. BILL NO. 000318 Now, in this scenario, this group comes out. And who is going to be doing this work? They are not going to be licensed electrical contractors; right?
Now, do they have experience changing meters? Because when you pull a meter out, it is still live, it is still hot. And when you put those little plastic dummies on the end that you put in with the fork stick, the males that go in the females so you can't have electric, and then you put your band off and lock it off with that big key that nobody has except for Mr. McBride, he has one?
It is a slightly higher skill set than a meter reader, who does not normally touch the meter or pull it out.
But a much lower skill set than an electrician. So we are using the same subcontractor that reads our meters, does our 27 BILL NO. 000318 transfer of service work, so they already have the skilled work force.
What is their skill, though? I mean, they are not quite electricians, but they are better than meter readers. Is there a subcategory? I am concerned about safety. I mean, there is no Machiavellian plot here. I don't want somebody coming to my house, or one of my constituents' houses, pulling this meter out. Because, guess what? When you pull that meter out, it is under a full road. And Councilman Rizzo has 13 computers in his house. They crash, unless he knows they are coming. And I am sure you took all of that into consideration. Some people may be on life support. Some people it could mess up your VCR, you wouldn't be able to tape. Okay? Now, I don't want somebody, a meter reader, doing that. I think I need a licensed electrical contractor doing that, to be honest with you. I mean, that's your business 28 BILL NO. 000318 decision, and you leave yourself open to whatever kind of liability and lawsuits you have. You just need to know there is a litigious -- my constituency is litigious, and they are looking. Everybody is safety conscious, especially with electrical. We are not talking about plumbing, where the worst that can happen is water flows. So these aren't going to be electricians? That boggles my mind.
They are going to be the same skill set that performs the work for PECO Energy today, as well as most other utilities.
But these were contract employees? They are not PECO employees at this point? I mean, it is not the meter readers; right?
Where do these people get trained to have this semi-electrical skill? How do you get a semi skill? I mean, what do you just go to electrical apprentice school for a year and say, "I 29 BILL NO. 000318 know enough to pull a meter out and not kill myself"? Do you know how many amperes it takes to kill somebody? Do you have any idea?
PECO Energy has developed the training. We monitor the training and monitor the performance of all of the people in our field, and that includes our subcontractors.
No, sir, they are not. Some are. Now, we do perform a lot of this same type of work by our own employees. But some of our work is subcontracted out, our meter reading and our transfer service work.
Now, for the lawyers in this room and for the law department -- 30 BILL NO. 000318 not that this all matters, because I can say these things because I am not a lawyer, so therefore it is okay -- where are we getting these people, I mean, if they are not PECO employees? Do we just put this out for bid, PECO puts it out for bid? And we get together, me and Mr. Schrager there get together, and start a company and we bid on this work. And I go, "Well, see, I am an electrician. Mr. Schrager is a lawyer, he is not quite an electrician, so, therefore, he would be able to do this after training?" Where do people come from? Are we putting ads in the newspaper? I mean, they are or they aren't current PECO employees?
The contractor is hiring the folks. I am assuming they have put an ad in the paper. I don't know how they have gone out to get these people. But they are being properly trained to do the task. We are very concerned about employee safety, as well as public safety. And we would not 31 BILL NO. 000318 jeopardize public safety or an employee or a contractor's safety with folks not properly trained. That's our business. We understand it. We can train these folks properly.
See, I am still concerned. I hate to take up all this time, but this is a problem, Ed. Safety is a big deal. Again, who are these people? Are they PECO employees that are trying to better themselves, or are they PECO employees that are going to go out that used to read the meters? Because that's what I thought they were, and you are trying to help them and give them another semi-trade. Is that what we're doing here? Can we say that? Are you going to hire people for $5 an hour? I mean, let's ask the big question. How much are these people getting paid? An electrician makes about $30 an hour.
Mr. Dudkin, what is your title here? You are the chairman? No. 25
Vice-President of marketing, and you don't know these answers? You know, you come here in front of this committee, you should know these answers. I want to know who the people are, where they live, how much they are going to be paid, exactly how many hours they are going to be trained. I mean, I was an electrician. I am still an electrician, and I am proud of it. I sat out at that apprentice school for five years. I took the four-year course in five years. So I have extra knowledge, and I am learning every day. I can't understand how -- you could short something out and blow up a meter in front of you just by a little piece of tiny copper thread of a strand of wire could short it out. You should be better prepared. Does anyone else at this table have the ability to answer these questions?
Okay. Who are these people? Who are they going to be? Are they ex-PECO employees? Yes or no. 33 BILL NO. 000318
Some are. Some are absolutely ex-PECO employees. Other are employees who have been recruited by this contractor who are put through our training program, and diligently tested and monitored. We perform this work 600,000 times a year, or more, every year, safely.
But the people who come out and change the meters in Philadelphia are people that work for --
Councilman Mariano, I think, in fairness, we should allow them to finish the answer. You are kind of anticipating their next.
I'm sorry, Mr. 34 BILL NO. 000318 Chairman. I am not. She is not giving me --
Councilman, the lady is going to answer your question. I think what's happening, you are doing it to me right now, you are anticipating your next question. I would like to hear the answer, as well.
Mr. Chairman, I am not that bright to anticipate you or her. What I want to know is, and she is avoiding my question, Mr. Chairman --
Mr. Chairman, who are these people? That's all I want to know.
Councilman, nine -- ten times you have done it to me. I would like to hear the answer, as well. I think your questions are good questions. But I am not -- and I don't know about the rest --
Well, maybe if you would quit interrupting and let --
Councilman, please. I would like to hear the response, and I think the other members of the committee would like to hear the answer to your question. I am only asking that if you would slow it down.
I am asking you to slow it down because I have not heard all of the answers 36 BILL NO. 000318 to your questions, and I am not certain if the other members have. And I would like the record --
And so would I. We are trying to achieve the same ending here. But if I could just one thing, they have had ten minutes.
Councilman, you have been asking questions for the better part of ten minutes, and I am not cutting you off. I am just asking you one more time, I would like to hear the response so the record will be clear.
This is for my constituency. I just need to knows answers. Let me 37 BILL NO. 000318 rephrase the one question. One question at a time, because I don't want to confuse the Chairman or anyone else here, any of the assistants or anybody else. Who are these people, and how much are they being paid? MR. McBRIDE: Councilman, these are PECO employees and employees that work for the contractor that is currently doing this kind of work and reading our meters. They are going to go through our training module, just like all of our employees have gone through to change meters. And then Ms. Goodwin said, we do this 600,000 times a day, with employees that have gone -- or a year, with employees that have gone through the exact same training module. Exactly, no 19 different. And we expect that these employees, when trained, will go out and carry out the duties no differently than the current employees.
Mr. Chairman, could I just ask a followup on that question? MR. McBRIDE: Also -- 38 BILL NO. 000318
I would like to follow up. Is there any difference in the pay scale that the employees who are doing that work, the 600,000 or so functions that are performed today, will there be any change in the pay scale as it relates to what this new change or this new function will be? Does anyone have the answer to that? Since it is basically the same kind of work, and the same people, is there a change -- MR. McBRIDE: No, there will be no 14 change. One of the things that this does, by hiring these employees, is, it extends the inevitability of their employment termination once automatic meter reading is done. You know, basically we are trying to train them to change out the meters and extend their employment. As you may be interested, I mean, this is a working group that's 74 percent minority. And we are going to put them in the same exact training module that we currently put our employees 39 BILL NO. 000318 in. As Mr. Dudkin mentioned, safety is a serious priority for us. And I think Councilman Rizzo knows that probably better than all of us. So we don't want to put anybody in jeopardy. It was mentioned earlier about the computers going off and the VCR blinking. No one is going to have their meter changed without proper notification. So they will get an opportunity to power down their house.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. How much are we paying these people an hourly rate? Do we have any idea?
Now, these people -- I want to say this slow, because I don't want anybody to get mad or anybody to misunderstand this -- these people that may have worked for PECO that you are training the same people, I am a little confused here, really, because I am not involved with the inner workings of who PECO sends out. 40 BILL NO. 000318 I always thought when someone came out and did anything to my house and my meter, he was qualified. I just figured he was an electrician or a lineman, at least an electrician if he is working on that, if he is up on a pole. Maybe not. Maybe you have the subcategory that I don't know about. Maybe Councilman Rizzo can enlighten us on that. But these people that you are sending to this safety training, they go to the same training that the people that are coming out go to now. But this never happens. You still have that, where the guys come out that aren't linemen, aren't electricians, that are messing with -- or not messing with, but are changing meters? MR. McBRIDE: The people that currently change out our meters now are not linemen; they are energy technicians.
Now, what kind of schooling do they have to go to? 41 BILL NO. 000318 MR. McBRIDE: They go through whatever training modules they need to do their job.
Do you know the time of that? Is it a month, a year, two years? MR. McBRIDE: No, I don't know. And it would be based on what tasks they are going to perform. And the time isn't the element; it is the quality of education.
Right. Could you find out for the people on this committee and send us that, how many hours these people need to go for training? Listen, I know PECO's safety. And I am sure it is way above what it has to be for the kind of job that PECO categorizes that in. Now, before someone told me that you don't have to get a -- we don't have to get a meter-- do you have to get this inspected? Do we need to get this inspected when we change that? Do you have like an internal inspection from PECO? Do you have like a crew chief that comes out, and maybe there are five or six or ten, and he is in charge of ten installations, and he says, "Look this group here did ten. This is 42 BILL NO. 000318 right, this isn't?" I mean, there is safety followup after they get this whatever classroom time there is?
These individuals that will be performing the installations are also backed up with a higher skill level foreman. There are also quality auditors that are following the people, checking their work. We are also monitoring on databases to make sure that the information that they are passing back for our billing is accurate. And we are doing that almost on an hourly basis.
Let me see. Now, the people that PECO are keeping here that are permanent PECO employees, the ones I am concerned about are the new ones and where they are coming from. And Mr. McBride gracefully let us know that they were 70 percent minority, and I commend you for doing that. But you don't have any qualifications on being a city resident or a county resident or a state resident, or anything like that? 43 BILL NO. 000318
Are you receiving any state or federal funding to do this? You know, is there anything coming from the state or the feds to help you train these people?
Have you looked at the Welfare to Work rolls or anything? Is there anybody like that on there?
Is PECO involved in picking these people, or are your subs just putting ads in the paper and bringing these people in? Is that how it is working?
The subcontractor is responsible for the hiring of their staff. But we also have the right to be involved as far as evaluating the standard of which they are hiring.
I mean, they pick ten people, and you say this these ten are okay, but maybe this ninth is qualified, they may 44 BILL NO. 000318 fail a drug test or something?
They are all required to pass drug and alcohol screening prior to employment.
You are not recruiting for this; right? The contractor does the recruiting?
Thank you. Does the city receive any particular compensation for use of its poles or other equipment to which some of these may be attached, Mr. McBride? MR. McBRIDE: Yes, Councilman. There is a fee that was derived to cover the cost for the city. And that was worked out with the Law Department and the Public Property Department. So there is a fee for attachment.
And I'm not sure I 45 BILL NO. 000318 was clear at the interchange of questions and answers from Councilman Mariano. Tell me in what regard were you discussing the use of subcontractors to replace -- do they replace meters, or do just PECO employees do that?
It would be the subcontractors that would be replacing the meters. MR. McBRIDE: These are contractors that are currently working for us.
That replace meters in the normal course of business? MR. McBRIDE: Right. This would extend, this project would extend, their employment. By retraining them to change out the meters, that would effectively extend the ultimate termination. Once automatic meter reading is in, there would be a layoff in that work force.
You mean in the meter readers' work force? MR. McBRIDE: Right. This would extend their employment.
How many meter 46 BILL NO. 000318 readers do you employ directly?
Well, I could tell you that PECO Energy does not employ any directly, that that work is performed, again, by this contractor. And I believe the number is right around 300.
You mean these meter readers are not PECO employees? They are employees of a subcontractor? I mean, has PECO always used that system, or is that relatively new? We understood that, in the old days -- I now have an outside meter in my house, so I never see a meter reader. Apparently he comes in the driveway and reads the meters. But in the days when we saw meter readers, I thought they were PECO employees.
They were until 1994. And at that point we did outsource it to this contractor.
And what is this training you are giving to these meter readers in an effort to continue their employment? What are you training them for? To be able to replace meters?
Right. Just to be able to replace a meter and take the appropriate information down.
Well, once the meter is replaced, it lasts a long time, doesn't it?
Because I can never remember a replacement of a meter, except when it went to the outdoors from the indoors.
The average lifetime of a normal meter is about 30, 40 years. MR. McBRIDE: Councilman, one of the advantages to this system is something that is raised several times a year from your office. When a customer has an indoor meter, and because of their schedule it can't be read --
Right. MR. McBRIDE: -- even though the 48 BILL NO. 000318 meter remains indoors, after these new meters are put in, there will be no estimated billing. And occasionally your office will call us and say, "Hey, Councilman Rizzo got a high bill, and because he hadn't had a reading in four months because we couldn't get access, and they got a $600 bill. Can you help us with this?" And we give them terms to help them pay off the bill. That goes away. Now they will get a bill every month, in a timely fashion, with no need for meter readers to enter their property, which is also, as Mr. Dudkin mentioned, a serious safety concern throughout the city, people posing or acting as though they are meter readers and trying to get access to a property. So there's two benefits right off the bat from this process.
How about if a customer opts to terminate the service with PECO under the electric choice provisions; will the meter reading apply to those companies?
They will be able to use the same facilities? 49 BILL NO. 000318
Will this technology -- as a matter of fact, will even hopefully make the outdoor meters read monthly without an estimated bill, too. You know I had to get that in there, Ed. Will this give you the technology to shut off service without coming out? If somebody doesn't pay their bill, can you hit a couple of buttons and shut them off?
No, Councilman Rizzo, it will not have the capability to physically turn on and off service to a house.
Here is where I would like to go with this. And I have been handed a couple of notes. The locations, obviously you know 24 where they are going to be. And there was a 25 statement made that these pole-mounted locations 50 BILL NO. 000318 would be, hopefully, constructed at substation locations. I would like to agree to that in writing, that that is exactly what you are going to do. And I think, based on the size of the cell master, that you would hopefully be able to locate these at primarily -- and I am using information that we used to develop the cellular telephone locations -- that you are going to primarily use the roof-mounted locations at PECO facilities first. I mean, that's a smart business decision, save rent if you do it at your own service locations. And if you need a facility, could you give the city the first shot at the revenue, at putting that at a firehouse location, a police location, a municipal building? And I would like to know, if that's not the case, where you plan to put these. Because I am sure your engineering has already determined approximately where you are going to need them. And I think, based on an attachment 51 BILL NO. 000318 of almost a thousand pounds, that L & I should have some input on where these sites are going to be attached for many concerns, fire. PECO, you pride yourself on your safety record. And I think that the last thing you would want to do is attach something, a thousand pound, maybe 750, I remember, pound device to a location. And I think that at least that part of the component should have some interaction with Licenses & Inspection, especially if you pick a facility that's a public building or a location like that. So I think we might have to make some amendments or some agreements here that those points that I just made be considered. PECO locations, I would like to know the pole-mounted locations where they are going to be. Because I tell you the truth, it is getting to the point now -- and I don't want to use the word "clutter" to refer to your equipment -- but there is clutter all over the place, with all this new technology. 52 BILL NO. 000318 And I think I personally -- and I don't know about the rest of the committee -- want to know where you plan to put them. And if you are willing to say it here, then you are willing to put it in writing.
We, I believe, know of all the locations. We can sit down and review those locations with you. As far as L & I, we will comply with all applicable regulations that the city has as far as siting and the safety of this equipment.
Is there one private contractor, subcontractor, that does this meter reading? I'm just not clear, because this is the first time I have heard of a private contractor working for the electric company. Is it one? Is it a specific one, or are there a series of contractors?
We have two meter 53 BILL NO. 000318 reading contractors working for us. One of those will be involved in the installation of the meters, one of those two.
What happens to the employees of the other, are they different in size or --
Yes. They currently handle a piece of Philadelphia. Over a time, as AMR gets implemented, that contract will decrease.
And these contractors are really handling what you indicated, the change of the meters?
In which you say nothing is touched with respect to the electrical part of the socket?
Right. Correct. It is taking out, removing a meter, putting in a new meter, writing down what the readings are, making sure that gets into our systems.
As far as I know, the Gas Works has always maintained its own 54 BILL NO. 000318 employees as readers; is that right? Do you know that?
Actually, back in '94, I believe, there was an announcement by the senior management of our company that we were going to be pursuing an automated meter reading solution approach in the coming years. And I think essentially at that point in time there was a strategic decision made that the company was going to commit to automated meter reading and that the future of manual meter reading would probably be in question. That's my recollection, having lived through those years with the company.
We're very sensitive to the question of employees loosing jobs. In the merger discussions that took place, we were told about some positions that would be lost, say, at a headquarters in time as a result of the merger. I don't recollect any discussion of 55 BILL NO. 000318 these meter readers. They are not PECO employees, you said?
But does the contractor spend full time on PECO? Does he have other clients, or is PECO the client?
No; both of the vendors, both of the subcontractors, have other contracts with other utilities.
How about the two contractors that change these meters?
Yes, sir, they do also have other contracts within the State of Pennsylvania and outside of Pennsylvania.
All right. Do you know, is there going to be other testimony? These meters readers, are they represented by any labor organization, do you know?
Any other questions? 56 BILL NO. 000318 Councilman Mariano, do you have questions?
No. Any other questions for these witnesses? MR. McBRIDE: Mr. Chairman, we just want to clarify that the cell master is different than the microcontroller. The microcontroller is what is going to be mounted on streetlights and utility poles. The cell master, the thousand pound piece of equipment that the Councilman referenced, that is going to be in the substations, for the most mark. And, obviously, we will follow whatever regulations apply outside of the substations. I just wanted to clarify that.
Will that function be done by the subcontractor also, or the PECO employees? MR. McBRIDE: No; that will be done by Exelon. 57 BILL NO. 000318
I think over the holiday I heard a report of a TV employee who was setting up to take some pictures somewhere. And his antenna touched something electrical, and he was badly burned over the body. The report came in just within the last few days. It was an accidental contact. He just stopped somewhere, he saw activity going on, he wanted to record it just to show what some people were doing over the three-day Memorial Day holiday. And if there were accidental contact with any of this equipment that you are planning to put on, would there be any danger to anyone? In other words, suppose an antenna, a TV guy, or somebody else just comes up and wants to take a picture, puts up his antenna and happens to hit this box.
Councilman, the microcell controllers, the devices which would be essentially mounted on the streetlights or the utility poles, they are in a steel enclosure. They are powered, essentially, from 58 BILL NO. 000318 120 volt, similar to any other appliance in your home. So I guess to answer your question, if something were to compromise that structure, that metal structure, there could be some result from that. But it's nothing to the extent of touching a high tension wire. And I'm not sure of the accident that you referred to. It may indeed have been contact with a high tension wire. But the device --
But the device, essentially, is powered similar to any other appliance, your toaster, you know, your clock, VCR, any electronics.
Touching the outside would not compromise that at all. It is a relatively -- it is a very rigid steel enclosure. And it is protected with fuses; such that, if there is a short, the circuit 59 BILL NO. 000318 should essentially be opened. So I think the risks -- or measures have been taken to mitigate risks around any accident that could occur like that.
Thank you. MR. McBRIDE: Councilman, there has been a lot of discussion this morning about safety. And because you raised this, I wanted to just point out that we have a group called Contractor and Builder Services that has gone out with training modules for all of the TV stations in the area and given them explanations on how to work safely around overhead wires. And, as a result of that, we have been applauded for that effort. So I just wanted to mention, we do -- we are very sensitive for that.
Thank you. Any other questions for these witnesses? There's been some discussion or questions raised about the location of the various devices. Have you identified those yet? Are 60 BILL NO. 000318 you still working on those sites where those devices will be located? And if you have them now, fine. If not, would you submit it to the Chair, those substations where some of the devices will be and where the smaller boxes that will be mounted on the poles? I would appreciate that, if you could get that to the Chair. Thank you.
With respect to what the Chair just mentioned, is the location of each of these items to be installed, is that cleared with the Streets Department? Do they -- MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
Is there a representative of the Streets Department? MR. McBRIDE: This was through Public Property, Councilman.
Public Property. All right. 61 BILL NO. 000318 MR. McBRIDE: And a specific location, like whether it is the first pole from the corner of 16th and Ranstead, or the second pole, no, we have not narrowed it down to that specificity.
But you need to do that ultimately? MR. McBRIDE: We do that because it has to be determined according to what the buildings are around the area. You know, whatever the topography is, that will drive it a little bit. But we do have agreement generally on the area that we're going to be focusing on.
Mr. McBride, Mr. Doyle from our Streetlighting Department is here. You mentioned that the pole attachments to streetlights has been cleared by the Public Property Department. The Streetlight Department is within the Streets Department. So has Mr. Doyle had the review on what the configuration -- you are making an attachment to a streetlight that the Streets Department is responsible for, not the Public 62 BILL NO. 000318 Property Department. MR. McBRIDE: That's accurate. And I had the same question, actually, Councilman. The original discussions were between Public Property and the Streets Department. But the department that we worked with to craft the legislation was with Public Property, at the city's request. Streets Commissioner Moy was involved in the early discussions, and as was Joe Doyle and Mr. Siernick. But then the crafting of the ordinance came through Public Property and the Law Department.
So when we talk to the streetlighting people, they will be okay with the number of locations -- how many locations, again, are you going to attach to streetlights? MR. McBRIDE: 200.
Any other questions? Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. I understand there are two other individuals who wish to testify, Mr. Dougherty, Mr. Dollard. Good morning, and please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
John J. Dougherty, Business Manager, IBW Local 98, electricians and technicians. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Jim Dollard and myself, Jim is one of our teachers over at Local 98's apprentice program on Spring Garden Street. I just stopped in today. And it seems to be a recurring problem for not only myself, but the city, in that there is a lot of work that is being reclassified today. As we move into the 21st Century, as the telecommunication process takes its course, with the changing environment in the electrical field, there seems to be a whole lot of players now. And 64 BILL NO. 000318 they hide under veils of privatization, minority participation. And at Local 98, we have been changing with the times. We have a skill set at Local 98 that gives us the opportunity to go from the electrical field, up into the most automated of installations in the world today. And we have also been very inclusive in our process. " Well, Local 98 has been very active in its last two to three years in trying to become the most inclusive union in town. And we try, because of that process, we try to use the word "neighborhood participation" because we feel that it is better for Philadelphia to use specific kids from specific neighborhoods, when applicable. The bottom line is, is that we have a tremendous education facility. We in the last three years have taken over the telecommunication market at the IBW, and most recently as May took over the 65 1 BILL NO. 000318 broadcast. So now you get one-stop shopping at 17th and Spring Garden. There is nothing in that field that you cannot get in Philadelphia and have local Philadelphia kids involved in. The bottom line is still dollars and cents. You know, I always have a problem when anyone that carries the title of business manager, Vice-President, corporate head, cannot come in and give you specifics. Okay? I can answer any question. I don't usually take the time to come down, because we have a lot of qualified people around. I was in the building, and just found that very offensive. My guys get paid $30 an hour. It is a tiered process, through an apprenticeship program. It starts out at $10 an hour, with benefits. And the membership is probably, the new membership is probably, 80 percent Philadelphia. And I am also very proud of that. And outside of Philadelphia, it is held against them. So I don't want it to be held against them to be in Philadelphia. We hire from the neighborhoods. We 66 BILL NO. 000318 educate in the neighborhood. We want to do the work in the neighborhood. We don't mind that other people compete with us. We don't have a monopoly on it. We just want to make sure that the wage and standard that we have negotiated over 100 years is also put in place. Paying someone $7 an hour and asking them to pull a meter, and running them through a quick program, when they have no history, or no 12 understanding of safety, or maybe nine out of ten times no prior work history at all can be dangerous. I represent people for a living. My number one priority when I send a kid out on the job is that he understands the job, and he has taken all the safety courses that are applicable to that job. I'm not comfortable with what I heard today. I'm not a professional in the education or safety field, but my protege at my right is. He is nationally recognized. We are lucky to have him. He spent a lot of time and effort making sure that this city is safe. I also just will give you a short 67 BILL NO. 000318 history. In situations it was asked, how would you do these jobs. Local 98 had the history of something that might have, and we have been here before, a very skilled portion to it, and then a very remedial portion to it. What we try to do is, we put the very qualified person alongside a neighborhood resident that would be selected for that specific job. So that not only does he get life rules and work rules -- it might be his first job -- but he also learns the trade and he is not put in a safety position.
We have done that with some of the cable companies. And, most of the time, primarily with the installation for Comcast and CCG, I put a skilled technician alongside a neighborhood individual, and I went to City Council for that individual. And it has worked out very well. And that kid no longer -- as one of the previous speakers said, is facing unemployment. He is facing a future now in a local union. We are in the business of giving guys 68 BILL NO. 000318 careers, not jobs. We are in the business of giving people a job that they are able to keep a family in this city for a long period of time. So I appreciate taking this time. And I know that I wasn't scheduled to the end.
Thank you for your testimony. And I am sure most of us have said at one time or another we do appreciate all the work that your local does, in particular in hiring people from the Philadelphia community. Because we know that we get that money back ten times over when we employ people who continue to live here and spend their money in our communities. You mentioned something about your program, and I think you cited something at the lower level of the jobs are about $10 an hour, plus benefits. Someone in that particular category, would they be qualified to work at this work that is being proposed by PECO here today, through the outside contractor? Is that something that one of your apprentices would be qualified to do? Because I don't see that much of a 69 BILL NO. 000318 difference in the spread from hearing PECO's subcontractor maybe paying or 7.50 an hour, and if 4 your guys can do it at around 10, 10.50 an hour. It 5 isn't really that much of a spread. 6 And I was just wondering if there is 7 a way in which we can craft this -- we can't do it legislatively, obviously. But maybe through negotiations we can figure out a way where we all can get what we want out of this. PECO can get to do what it needs to do to better serve the city's customers, and Philadelphia folks could be employed to do that work. You know, again, we can't do that legislatively. But I am just kind of thinking out loud here.
I am just going to answer you out loud here. Well, let me say, PECO, very good company. Very high-quality personnel. Some of the people that presented are friends of mine, that presented their case today are friends of mine. Okay? We are not dealing with PECO here; we 70 BILL NO. 000318 are dealing with a subcontractor that is not in the electrical business. I have 350 contractors sitting on a sheet of paper up on Spring Garden Street that are certified electrical contractors. We have specific job arrangements in which we make the lesser of the job more financially reachable. We work -- we call them competitive adjustments. We have market recovery programs. We have all this type of assets. That's not even been explored here. Okay? We would be more than willing to sit down and make them work. From a safety standpoint, we would have to have a journeyman in the process, because our education process is every year you move up into a greater grasp of the field. Jimmy would have a better knowledge of the actual statistics of safety. But, yes, we would have a series of apprentices involved in this process. And I would also like to let you know that most of our apprentices have already been part of these neighborhood programs, they also have two 71 BILL NO. 000318 years under their belt, and they have also had a legitimate two to three years' worth of education under their belt.
And you referred to Jimmy. You don't mean Jimmy Kenney. Jimmy --
Is Jimmy going to testify? Because after he does, I would like to --
Jim Dollard, IBEW 98, I am presently the Chairman of National Electrical Code. Now, the electrical code takes jurisdiction in the City of Philadelphia from the service point on. And I would just like to explain it. For example, if you've got utility poles outside your house, PECO will deliver a service drop, an overhead drop. From that point on, if you want to take your service and upgrade your service, that's your responsibility. You are required to hire a contractor, take it from the service point to the 72 BILL NO. 000318 meter, from the meter into your service equipment. PECO didn't install that throughout the city. PECO has an exemplary safety record, and it is just that. It is one of the best in the country, I believe. These are subcontractors. There are so many items that come into play here, I could literally talk to you for two hours, but I won't do that. The National Electrical Code recognizes those conductors as having no overcurrent protection at all. That represents a serious, serious safety hazard, and it represents a serious safety hazard to the trained person. We're all aware of shock hazards. Everybody in the room has been shocked at one time or another. But when you are dealing with conductors that have no overcurrent protection at all, there's two other very serious safety risks involved, and they are arc flash and arc blasts. Now, both of the them are caused when you have a low impetus ground fault, which is a short circuit, for all practical purposes, or a 73 BILL NO. 000318 short circuit. Now, I am kind of disturbed at what I have heard here, that subcontractors who are responsible for training their employees, the fact that they are subcontractors, PECO isn't responsible to train them. While PECO may give criteria to the subcontractors, per the OSHA standards -- which are law, they are regulatory standards -- National Electrical Code is a consensus document which is adopted by the city, which makes it a regulatory standard. It is the employer that is responsible for this type of training. I'm very concerned that short-time employees aren't going to receive the type of training that's required. And each employer is going to have a different dedication to safety. Many are more dedicated to numbers today, unfortunately, than they are safety. But Councilman Mariano can explain to you himself the dangers of arc flash. He was involved in an incident several years ago. But an arc flash can take, for 74 BILL NO. 000318 example, in front of a meter, can take the ambient temperature from, in this room, maybe 68 degrees, to well over 15,000 degrees Fahrenheit for some distance in front of the meter. That will cause incurable third-degree burns to the hands and, if the face is exposed, the face. There's so many variables here. Have these employees been taught in electrical-safety-related work practices, per the OSHA standards, per NFPA 70E? Are they issued the proper personal protective equipment? The fact that PECO didn't install that wiring from the service point on, are they trained to recognize a problem that may exist in a homeowner's meter, and the removal of that meter will now not allow you to install another one, you can try to install another one, but it looks a little shaky? The problem is, you could have a young installer, somebody that's not trained very well, they could literally install thousands of meters, and then when they run into that one problem, they may not be able to recognize it. And 75 BILL NO. 000318 it would be a very, very serious problem. And I'm not so sure -- I think that this is going to involve a little bit more than just residential occupancies. It is probably going to involve small commercial type occupancies, also, which are going to represent hazards of their own.
I would like to follow up on something you just said. That's why these hearings are so good. I didn't even think of this point until you just said something that's very important. Let me just, this scenario. One of these contractors -- and PECO themselves said that these meters last for 30 years, maybe longer. Now, many of the boxes, many of the meter boxes, that house this may be in a state of they are starting to rust, and they would last 19 more years if they are not disturbed. 20 Now, this person comes out to change the meter out. They remove the old meter, and in the process of removing the band and the meter seal, they do damage to that meter box. Now, they are not able to reinstall the new meter, they have to red tag the meter, and 76 BILL NO. 000318 it immediately then becomes the responsibility of my constituent to go and hire an electrician to change out that box that now will not accommodate the new meter, because in the process of removing and attempting to reinstall the new device, they damage that housing. Not that they intentionally damaged it, but because it was disturbed. And, as you know, around the house you are fixing things, and all the sudden you wind up breaking it. So my concern is, if in the process of changing out a meter they cannot reinstall the remote device, then the burden is on the resident to hire someone. And many of our con constituents can't afford to go out and have a service entrance cable and all of the components associated with with the electric service replaced. So am I correct and is my picture pretty --
Yes. There are a number of things that could happen. And one of the things that comes to my mind is, the majority of services, if we are 77 BILL NO. 000318 going to talk residential, are hundred amp services, many of them very old, using aluminum. Aluminum conductors tend to cause problems over the years. As a matter of fact, the City of Philadelphia's Electrical Code specifically prohibits aluminum conductors No. 10 or smaller. Because there are some homes in the city that are wired in aluminum, my sister lives in one, and they cause quite a few problems. So, you know, to identify all of the problems that can occur pulling a meter out would be everything from pulling the meter housing right off the wall, to a conductor coming loose on the line side or the load side, or, you know, the meter itself, the meter enclosure that's been exposed to weather for quite some time, maybe it was broken when the installer put it in. Now it is going to represent new hazards. My main concern would be for a young man or young woman that's going to be putting these meters in. Because I don't want to get technical. But as transformers, as PECO replaces newer transformers, they tend to have lower 78 BILL NO. 000318 impedance ratios. That's what we call impedance ratios. That means you have a higher value of short circuit current available at that meter. Now, what is it? Is it 10,000 amps? That's rule of thumb, it is going to be around 10,000 amps. Maybe it is 8,000 amps. You know, depending on how close you are to the transformer, if there were five row homes in the pot, the transformer is right outside your home, the available short circuit current at your meter is going to be incredibly higher than at the end. So there's quite a number of possibility that can occur, as you pointed out. And then the owner of the home is going to be responsible, because that's not PECO's responsibility.
Well, again, that other information is very important to me. And thank you for that. But I'm, I guess, a little more basic in the process. I'm concerned that when one of these contractors goes and does what you describe, in the process of pulling the meter, pulls the whole panel off the wall, do they walk away and, you know, 79 BILL NO. 000318 wave to Mrs. Murphy and say, "Well, Mrs. Murphy, in the process of changing this meter, we pulled the box off the wall," now let's have it hanging by the service entrance cable, or the box now, because of the movement of changing and replacing the meter, has now -- the rust has now broken away and they have a defective box. I mean, this is a question. Should the subcontractor be responsible for making that constituent whole, even though in some prorative way. But I just wouldn't want to see them walking away from something that they have loosened or damaged.
Yes, Councilman. Because, as you pointed out, if it hadn't been pulled out, it may have lasted another years, who 18 knows. 19 I would just like to address one 20 other item before you ask me a question, Councilman, which I will gladly answer it. And that is in training. The Councilman had asked earlier about our apprentices being trained. Upon entering our program, our apprentices receive an intensive safety program 80 BILL NO. 000318 which includes OSHA 10-hour training. I myself am one of OSHA 500 authorized trainers in Local Union 98, which means OSHA had recognized us to teach the and 30-hour courses, which are fairly generic in 6 nature, but do include electrical safety. 7 We also give our apprentices 8 electrical-safety-related work practices, which 9 introduces them to all of the hazards, shock, arc 10 flash, arc blast, and they are also taught how to do risk hazard analysis. They can take a look at an individual installation, determine the risk involved, and the proper personal protective equipment needed to safely perform the task.
What you just said is somewhat related to the question I wanted to ask you. From the witnesses that appeared before, it seemed to me we were being presented with a very simple problem, that something was going to be put into a socket and taken out of a socket. And like, you know, when I move the toaster from one area of the kitchen to another, I may have a different electric socket. 81 BILL NO. 000318 I have not generally regarded that as needing any special training, though once in a while I have noticed maybe a flame somewhere. It comes up and disappears, and I don't know what it is, and I move away happily that nothing happened. But we were being told it was so simple, it is being done every day. What you're saying is that it appears to be simple on the surface, and maybe in most cases it is, but that there are safety problems involved when it is not what it looks like. Say, if there's some defect somewhere along the line, that it may be more than a problem of just putting it in a socket or taking out a socket. Is that what you are basically saying?
We need somebody who has had that kind of education to recognize this may be not putting in a plug in the socket; it may be something else?
Your analogy is a good one. 82 BILL NO. 000318 But keep in mind, those receptacle outlets that you are plugging, for example, the toaster, as you said, you have got overcurrent protection, you have got more than likely in your basement amp circuit breaker, an inverse time 7 circuit breaker, protecting that outlet. 8 Now, if there was a short circuit or 9 a ground fault, boom, you are going to get a boom. 10 But what happens is, the amount of 11 fault current is limited there by a device in your 12 basement that's going to clear it. 13 The problem with services and on the 14 load side of a PECO -- PECO doesn't provide 15 secondary overcurrent protection. It is not 16 practical for utilities to provide secondary 17 overcurrent protection. 18 And utilities don't size their 19 primary devices as low as the National Electrical 20 Code, for example, would want them to, nor would the utility want to. Because if they did, every time a squirrel came in contact with the top of a pot and a high-voltage line, they are going to need a line truck out there, people lose their service. It is 83 BILL NO. 000318 not good for PECO and it is really not good for the customer. Now, that type of installation is longstanding and it is a safe installation. They use a different code in most cases; it is the National Electrical Safety Code. That's a safe installation. But when you are working on those secondary conductors, there is a great potential for arc blasts and arc fault. And you have to be trained to recognize those hazards. And I'm not so sure that a training module, what's in the training module, who is presenting the training module. And the training is left to the individual contractor. OSHA requires that the employer provide that training, how those employers submit it, their written safety programs. Do they have written safety-related work hazard programs? Do they audit their safety program? Do they audit their employees with personal protective equipment? The scary part is, you don't have to go much further than St. Agnes Burn Center to see somebody with electrical burns. And I have seen 84 BILL NO. 000318 it. And, to be honest with you, I don't want to visit anybody that's been burned again, because it is just not a pretty site.
I just have one question. Sorry, Mr. Dollard. Real quick. Mr. Dollard, you are getting into a real technical aspect. What I asked them, and I am sure you know this answer, if they have everything turned off in the house, it is very nontechnical. If that person comes out and pulls that meter out of the socket, even if everything is turned off, can we have an arc? Can electricity -- an arc is when electricity jumps from one spot to another. Can that happen? There is always something going in the house, even if we think we have everything off.
Yes, it would be very difficult. If you enter the main in the basement and turned it off. But then, you know, the homeowner, everything is off. 85 BILL NO. 000318 To be honest with you, I just don't see homeowners doing that. For example, I have got a security system in my home, you know. I am not going to want to shut it off. I have got 110 volt smoke detectors in my home. If I have to shut it off, I get a constant beeping.
The assistant was just telling me she still has fuses in her house, which I like. But for her to do that, she would have to take that main fuse out. And that's something she is not going to do 7 o'clock in the morning, before she comes to work here. So the whole idea of that, everything being out, is really --
I have one question of Mr. Dougherty. Suppose there were some mechanism by which we could sit you at this table and bring, say, PECO there at the table. How would that work out?
My understanding is, prior to me, Councilman, that there was the same 86 BILL NO. 000318 type of job years ago, which had a relationship with a subcontractor that was affiliated with Local 98. And when you get a contractor that's affiliated with Local 98, we have the 17-man staff that makes sure that he abides by all our wage standards, our safeties and our apprenticeship and training regulations. So PECO does work with Local 98 every single day of the week. In this specific case, like I said, it is prior to me, but my understanding is there was a relationship between a Local 98 contractor, Henkles and McCoy, and PECO to do the same type job a few years back. Now, here is my concern. There might not have been -- even though there is a large difference in the wage package, there might not be that big a difference in the price of the job.
Because there is a larger profit margin for the individual subcontractor, who might of, as was stated earlier, might have been a former PECO employee. I think they said that some of these subcontractors were former PECO employees. 87 BILL NO. 000318
And they would use a contractor who has the contract with Local 98, so the services that your union organization would have available could be made available to that contractor?
All right. Mr. Chairman, I don't know what your intention was, but I would like to see the PECO, at least some of them, come back to the table.
Yes. I just had a conversation with Mr. McBride, and they are going to come back up. There were some interesting questions that were raised. You guys can stay.
You can stay there, if you want to. It might be easier for them to come up, then you will come back. 88 BILL NO. 000318 MR. McBRIDE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Before you amend. Suppose the City of Philadelphia, for whatever reason, were not to pass this ordinance. What happens to the automatic reading program? How vital is this ordinance? MR. McBRIDE: Councilman, I am glad you asked that. As Mr. Dudkin testified to, because of the high number of indoor meters in Philadelphia County, and because of my working relationship with so many of the offices here that call about estimated readings and about people trying to get into their property posing as meter readers, I asked that Philadelphia County, especially South Philadelphia, that they start there, because that's where the higher concentration of indoor meters are. So we have agreed to do that. We would not be in front of you, we would not have this ordinance here, if it weren't for the 200 locations that we need on the City of 89 BILL NO. 000318 Philadelphia property streetlights. We would be changing these meters, and it would be invisible to this Council, because we do it every day anyway. As Mrs. Goodwin testified, we did 600,000 a year, and that would just continue. We would just have done this, and the meters --
Could I just interrupt for a minute? MR. McBRIDE: Go ahead.
You don't actually remove 600,000 meters a year, do you? MR. McBRIDE: We change out 600,000 meters a year.
Wouldn't that be kind of the total customer base? MR. McBRIDE: No. The total customer base, total meters, are about 2 million.
In Philadelphia? MR. McBRIDE: Right. And it would just --
No, I'm sorry. Not 90 BILL NO. 000318 in Philadelphia, sir. That would be in our service territory.
Well, yes. I am puzzled by the figures that they are supposed to last about 30 years. So I can't understand why there would be that large number in Philadelphia.
The 600,000 are the times that we pull the meter and put it back into the socket. And it could be that it is the same meter that's going into a socket because the customer has moved and we are shutting the meter off.
Because we have to put plastic boots to cut the current between the meter and the service. So we pull the meter, shut it off, put it back in the socket. 91 BILL NO. 000318
And the question that you asked, what happens to the automatic meter reading program for Philadelphia County? We would not be able to provide these services to your constituents in the areas where we need access to your facilities. We certainly do not want to be there. We want to give the Philadelphia constituents and our customers this service first.
Just so that I understand what you're saying, the latter part particularly, you are saying that if this bill 19 doesn't get passed, Philadelphia would not be able to have automatic reading? MR. McBRIDE: That's accurate.
Yes, sir. We have no 23 way to construct it without your support.
Say the South Philadelphia example you gave, would that be able to 92 BILL NO. 000318 continue on? MR. McBRIDE: They would have indoor -- we would continue to read the meters the way we do now, with meter readers going to the door, asking for access.
You wouldn't be able to have the automatic system? MR. McBRIDE: We cannot do the system without the 200 locations that we have petitioned the Public Property division for. Also, while I was away from this table, I did verify that the rate is between 10 and 12 dollars an hour that the energy technicians will be getting paid. The structure is there is ten employees to one supervisor, or foreman I guess is a better way to say it. There are also eight safety professionals that will be doing safety audits as following the workers' path, just to make sure that everything was installed properly and that they are comfortable with what they are doing. In all of the meter changeouts that we have done -- and, you know, I have been around, 93 BILL NO. 000318 unfortunately, maybe too long, but 31 years -- I don't know -- I know there are flash --
To me that's a brief period. MR. McBRIDE: I know. It is extremely rare when there is a flash. And it was commented about protective clothing. The employees that are going to be doing this work are going through our training module; not the contractor's, ours. And it is written into the contract that they must adhere to our safety standards, not the contractor's. They must adhere to ours. They will be offered the same protective clothing and they will be required to wear it by the safety professionals and the supervisors. So it will be no different than we currently do with our own employees.
How does your training standards compare, if you know the answer to this question -- MR. McBRIDE: I do.
-- to those that 94 BILL NO. 000318 were described by Mr. Dougherty and Mr. Dollard? MR. McBRIDE: You could have asked them this question. We have one of the highest training programs, the highest caliber training programs in the industry, bar none. We are right at the top, in the top of all training. Additionally, Councilman, and for the committee, I might add that these meters, through this contractor that's operating our system, the meters that were testified earlier to, I think it was 7 million, there is no problem with them. They don't know of a flash accident where someone was hurt. So I just checked on that. They don't know of an injury. Now, we are not making light of this. And because we are not making light of it, we are putting them through the same training that our employees go through and in making them adhere to it in the contract.
But, Mr. McBride, I have to tell you, the more you explain the safety measures that you take -- and they are impressive -- the more I begin to feel that, you know, maybe there 95 BILL NO. 000318 is really a need for the safety. And I know the record of Local 98 over many, many years, you know, decades, in electrical safety. And I get a little bit concerned as to why we can't achieve the best of all results, which would be to have an electrical contractor, you know, working with PECO, or PECO continuing to employ these people directly. MR. McBRIDE: Councilman, we have already signed a contract. We can do the build-outs in the four counties. And our goal was to do this with the employees that eventually would be laid off and to extend their employment; give them the training that we give our own employees, no different, and extend their employment. Now, I thought that was a great goal. We are only here, again, because of the 200 locations we need on city facilities. And, you know, we are not in the business of putting anyone at risk, customer, general public, or our employees.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is for the lady at the table. I am sorry; I forgot your name.
Thank you. I think a lot of this could have all been avoided, because I think PECO has good intentions. But my problem with this is, we're trying to, Mr. McBride, as you say to help some people here who probably are going to be out of work. But my main problem is, if you do it the way you are looking to do it, once these people go with this contractor, and this contractor may be the son of a former employee, or whatever that's about -- and that's for PECO to worry about, not us -- when this is done, where does he go, where does he going to install meters at in two years? Nowhere around here; right? Are they going to install meters around here anywhere? If you did this with Mr. Dougherty and Local 98, when this job is done, those people go 97 BILL NO. 000318 back to that hiring hall and they go somewhere else. And they go somewhere else when that job is done, and for the rest of their lives they have money into a pension. And we are not here to debate union benefits against non-union benefits. If we are here to help people, that's how you do it. Safety is one thing. We can never have an arc, like Mr. McBride said. That one arc -- take it from someone who has been electrocuted and burned badly by an electrical arc -- that's not something you want to experience. That skin hanging off your arm or the side of your face, it is very painful. Like Mr. Dollard said, how many amps to kill somebody, a tenth of an amp? Safety is not the issue. Safety is not the issue. It is here the issues should have been taken care of before we got to this part. And if PECO wants to help people, they will talk to that guy standing in the back of the room there, and we will work this out, and then they will be able to work 10 more years or for their 98 BILL NO. 000318 life, and hopefully they will stay in the City of Philadelphia. If not, so be it. But if they do, they can pay taxes and help us what we need here, send some money into our schools, send their kids to our public schools, do things like that. PECO is a great company. I am sure they have above safety standards, because they have to, because they have been around for so long. It is no Mickey Mouse organization. PECO has been around. If we really want to help people, that's how we help people. If we are helping somebody's friend, okay, that's what you are doing. But don't come here and pretend it is about minorities or what it's about. That's not what it is about. MR. McBRIDE: I don't know what you are talking about. This is a contract that these people have been contracted, two companies in question have been under contract with us for years. And the employees in question would be out of work as each automatic meter reading area 99 BILL NO. 000318 was put into place. They would be out of work. So we were thinking this was a very good way to keep them working.
I agree. MR. McBRIDE: And we have a contract to do this. The problem is that there's 200 streetlights that we need to put the units on. Otherwise, we would never be in front of Council.
How long is this going to go on, Mr. McBride? How long are they going to work? MR. McBRIDE: Three years.
Then what happens after three years? MR. McBRIDE: They would be laid off.
If they do the latter that I suggested, they would be working for possibly the rest of their life; that's all. That's my question.
Just to follow up, 100 BILL NO. 000318 Mr. McBride. Wouldn't this, if there was Local 98 and PECO Energy could get together, wouldn't some of these people that are working for this subcontractor have an opportunity possibly to come aboard and work with these electrical contractors, and have a permanent job, not in three years just get laid off? Knowing the Local 98, I think this might be a good opportunity that you sit down and try to work this out. Because --
I understand, PECO, you already have a contract in place? MR. McBRIDE: We have a contract in place right now with the people that are doing the work. So there is no room there to change the contract. Additionally, as you probably know, and I hope that most of the Council know, PECO hires significantly high percentages of union contractors, very high percentage. And so this isn't an issue about union versus nonunion. This is an issue about 101 BILL NO. 000318 extending the employment of the people that are currently there, getting the job done efficiently. It has already been commented on by Councilman Mariano that he concedes that our safety is probably above the industry.
Well, you have a contract with these people to do this job throughout your system; correct? MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
So, in other words, the contract could still be honored outside, Bucks, Montgomery, Chester, and exclude Philadelphia? It could do that.
No, that's not true. We have signed a contract with our prime, with Schlumberger. They are to perform, they are installing the automatic meter reading system using subcontractors. We have contracted with them to install our entire territory. Our intent was to come to the city first.
I would appreciate the questions that I asked about the liability during the course of installation, damage to the 102 BILL NO. 000318 meter boards or service entrance, that to be addressed here. I concern myself with the entire region, but obviously my responsibility is the ramification of the people that I represent. So if that information -- and I am sure you have taken careful notes -- could be forwarded to the Chair of this committee, I would appreciate it. And the sites, the locations where 12 they plan to be, I am not too much concerned that 13 the Streets Department doesn't have concern about 14 the 200 attachments to streetlights. But I am more 15 concerned with the other facilities, the roof mount, 16 and also the ones that plan to be located around the 17 City of Philadelphia, where they are going to be. 18 MR. McBRIDE: Okay. Well, we may not 19 have all the locations ironed out for the cell 20 masters, but we will tell you what we have. 21
Before they get 22 installed, we would like to know. 23 And, again, I recollect that there 24 were some permit zoning issues associated with those 25 installations when it came to the cell site 103 BILL NO. 000318 locations. So I would assume there might be some zoning issues and also some permit issues. MR. McBRIDE: We will follow whatever regulations are applicable. Also, Councilman, it may be an advantage for you to know that, as they go around, these employees go around to change out the meters, if they see a meter board that's coming off the wall or some other condition that should be pointed out to the customers, we will have an opportunity to do that. The customer may not know that.
What I would suggest, if that's the case, that no meter change be done until the problem is corrected. MR. McBRIDE: Well, they would do that according to the way we normally do business.
If the board is hanging off the wall, I mean -- MR. McBRIDE: They would get a notice.
But, again, let's 104 BILL NO. 000318 say it is a 30-year-old meter, you pull it out and half the meter board comes out with it, again, I am going to get a phone call from my constituents saying, "Now I have to spend $300 to get my meter board. It was okay until PECO came," and -- MR. McBRIDE: Well, I would submit to you that that would be handled no differently than any other claim. I mean, they do -- much like stepping on someone's roses as you cross the lawn.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Rizzo said he never stepped on the roses. It is probably you, McBride, the tulips.
Let me ask you a question. I am a little confused here. Who has this contract, Schlumberger or Exelon?
Schlumberger has the contract to provide the technology. There are subcontracts for the installation. For the network 105 BILL NO. 000318 it is Exelon Infrastructure Services.
Well, then, you said you can't subcontract out. Why don't you just subcontract to one of Mr. Dougherty's contractors, and we can all go home, and your President won't be embarrassed sitting back there.
-- to a more qualified contractor, just because something makes their qualifications a little higher.
We do not, we cannot just back out on signed contracts, nor can we hold our prime contractor to go back to their subs. I mean, we have binding --
You just told me Schlumberger had the contract, and they subbed it out to Exelon to do the installation. 106 BILL NO. 000318
Now you did a contract to do certain installations all over except for these 200.
No. These 200 are included. Exelon Infrastructure Services would be doing the work.
And you are telling me you can't reassign them 200 to somebody else?
Your contractor is saying it is okay. Because if I am your contractor, I am saying, look, these 200 I would like to have, but obviously it is a problem for everybody, so we will assign it to XYZ, or whoever. It just seems like an awful big waste of time. Mr. McBride, I have to say this. This isn't about unions or nonunions. And I know you know that. This is about safety for the people that call us every day on the phone. You know, there might never be an arc. But that one arc might be the one to kill 107 BILL NO. 000318 Mr. Dollard's grandmother, and that's not a good thing. MR. McBRIDE: Well, okay, you can make that stretch, if you wish.
It is not a stretch. MR. McBRIDE: Well, it isn't an issue of union/non-union. It is an issue of, as you have raised and other people have raised, of safety. And you can see that we have a very good safety program.
Yes, you do. MR. McBRIDE: So absent that, what is it?
Two subcontractors we are not sure about. MR. McBRIDE: Well, and I think we testified that --
I am speaking for myself, I am not sure about. MR. McBRIDE: All right.
Thank you. It is hard for me to believe that you have a contract that is so ironclad, knowing PECO Energy, that your lawyers or your law firm doesn't have some clause in there. I can't believe you are so confident that you came in here today that you might not have a problem pulling this thing off, that you have already assumed -- you come here assuming that you are going to get the okay to make those 200 attachments, you are assuming that you are going to get those other site locations that you signed a contract that you have no way to back out. If we don't give you the okay today for those 200 locations, you don't have a way to back out of that contract?
No. Let me explain. We have signed a contract with Schlumberger to install, to the extent that we choose to install. 109 BILL NO. 000318 So if we pull out a part of our territory and do not automate, then that is an area that they do not automate. But any work that would be performed to automate our meter reading system has been contracted to Schlumberger. So we did not, in all due respect, come that confident. And we do have a contract with this company. We can pull pieces of our territory out.
I don't know whether that's to be -- I don't want to be snowed here that you have a deal that's so ironclad that you can't make some adjustments to it. What I'm concerned is that if we don't give you those 200 locations, your system doesn't work.
To provide the service 110 BILL NO. 000318 to the entire city. It is a distributed network, and we need to put those components throughout the city to reach the meters.
My point is, if you don't install all the devices here, the three different components, your system will work?
In other words, you are spending all this money on this, these gadgets here, the rooftop mounts, the pole mounts, the 200 locations on streetlights, and you don't need them? MR. McBRIDE: It won't work anywhere that the attachments in question aren't put on.
So if you don't get the okay to make these 200 attachments, you would go ahead and start installing all these meters that won't work?
No, sir. We would not install the meters this area. We would continue to read those meters manually.
So then, obviously, there is some room to here to make sure 111 BILL NO. 000318 we are getting the quality technicians, the contractors that we have heard all this discussion about today. So there is some room to sit down and talk about this? MR. McBRIDE: Councilman, the issues we heard today were safety. And I have heard it repeatedly stated --
Not from me. MR. McBRIDE: I have heard it repeatedly conceded to that we have a very good safety record, we are very safety conscious. The other issue was wages. And I found out that our wages are right around the apprentice rate. If the safety is met and the wages are as we testified to, I'm not sure what the issue is, other than putting another layer into the process.
Mr. McBride, I don't think the concern is about the safety record of PECO Energy. I think the concern is that you are proposing that a contractor that you are going to 112 BILL NO. 000318 hire is going to adopt those same high-quality safety standards that PECO Energy operates by. I think what you are hearing here today is that there is some concern about the organization that PECO is engaging with. And it is only suggested that you're going to be able to maintain that high level. And I know personally that subcontractors that work in all utility companies, in many cases, don't work the same way that the work forces that work for the utility company work. MR. McBRIDE: I may not be clear here. But no matter what we do, whether we continued on the path that we're going down now or we entered into an agreement with an electrical contractor, aren't they both subcontractors?
They are both subcontractors. MR. McBRIDE: So where is the difference?
But I think that there has been a very clear difference described from a person that is changing meters today, and 113 BILL NO. 000318 then being elevated to this new level of now, all of the sudden, that person is no longer a meter reader, this person is now a technician that has the ability to remove and replace an automated meter. So I think there is a difference. Because electrical contractors are licensed. In most cases, the principal of the company is a licensed electrician and the employees work under that license. MR. McBRIDE: It has also been testified to that we have been doing this for over 100 years, and the people doing it are not electrical contractors. They are people trained just like we are going to train these meter readers.
For 100 years, though, the people doing it were a department of PECO referred to as the Meter Department, all PECO employees that worked for PECO Energy, not a kid that was delivering papers a week before, and now he is a meter reader; and two weeks after he is no 22 longer a meter reader, he is now changing meters. So I think there is a difference. For 100 years the people that did that task were all highly trained personnel employed 114 BILL NO. 000318 by PECO Energy; correct?
May I offer something? No, that's not quite correct. These subcontractors are using the same hiring practices in hiring the same skill as PECO. And we ourselves, when we employ people as PECO, most, most often hire people to read meters, and then their career path was to move through into the meter department and become what we called energy technicians.
In my opinion, that is a big difference between growing an employee within an organization, a meter reader that becomes a driver, becomes back then we called them customer installation person, and then a meter installer. I think there is a big difference between growing an employee, training an employee, than having a subcontractor allegedly use the same hiring practices that PECO Energy. I respectfully don't agree with you. Thank you.
Councilman Ortiz. And after Councilman Ortiz's testimony, I am going to 115 BILL NO. 000318 hold on any further testimony on this bill. I have four highly paid city employees who have been sitting here since o'clock 5 on a bill, two bills, I think we could probably do 6 in five or ten minutes to get their testimony. 7 And I apologize. I normally do it 8 that way. We missed it this morning. So I 9 apologize. Councilman Ortiz.
We began the installation in Delaware County in May, just about a month ago. Our plan was to begin the installation end of June, first part of July in the city.
And the contractor that you hired, is he from Philadelphia or Pennsylvania? I know that this question might have been asked. The contractor, where is he from? MR. McBRIDE: It is the company that we currently contract meter reading services to. I don't know where their actual base is. They have been under contract with us 116 BILL NO. 000318 since 1994.
And they are installing these instruments that the Chairman showed me on the poles; is that it? MR. McBRIDE: No. No; that's the subsidiary of PECO Energy Company.
Not a separate company? MR. McBRIDE: No. It is a subsidiary of PECO that is putting the microcell controllers on. The discussion here is about the current company that we have under contract for meter reading services. To extend the employment of the current employee body there, we are going to send them to our module for safety on how to change a meter and then extend our employment, which was our goal.
We are going to hold off on any further testimony of this bill. 117 BILL NO. 000317 The clerk will read the title of the next two bills, so we can get the city folks out of here. I know they are anxious to get back to their office.
Bill No. 317, an Ordinance authorizing the McDonald's Corporation, 150 South Warner Road, King of Prussia, 19406, tenant of the property 942 Market Street, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 19107, to construct and maintain an electrified marquee and three-dimensional icon attached to the building and projecting over the south footway of Market Street and the east footway of 10th Street, all under certain terms and conditions.
Good morning, Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Nancy Sen. I am an Engineering Supervisor with the Streets Department. And I am here to testify on Bill No. 000317 on behalf of the Streets Department. Returned here is the bill authorizing McDonald's Corporation to construct and maintain the 118 BILL NO. 000317 following encroachments on and above the public footways at the southeast corner of 10th and Market Streets: An electrified marquee and the three-dimensional icon over the entrance to the building at the corner of 10th and Market Street; planters and fabric-covered awnings encroaching into the 10th Street footway at four window areas on the face of the building; architectural embellishments running along the 10th Street and Market Street faces of the building; and a permanent cloth banner projecting over the Market Street footway. All of these encroachments leave adequate width and clearance of unobstructed footway on both Market Street and 10th Street. Therefore, the Streets Department has no objection to the passage of the bill.
Thank you. Any questions for this witness? Anyone else wishes to testify for or against the bill? Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill of the next bill.
Bill No. 320, an Ordinance amending Section 2 of an Ordinance, Bill 119 BILL NO. 000320 No. 990305, approved June 24, 1999, entitled, "An Ordinance Authorizing the Revision of Lines and Grades on a Portion of City Plan No. 120," by striking from the City Plan and vacating Carlisle Street from Oxford Street to Cecil B. Moore Avenue, and by reserving and placing on the City Plan a right-of-way for drainage purposes, water main purposes, gas main purposes, and public utility purposes within the lines of Carlisle Street being stricken from the City Plan and vacated under authority of this Ordinance, under certain terms and conditions; by extending the time for compliance with the conditions stated therein.
Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. My name is Paul Loney, Survey Bureau Manager of the Department of Streets. And the Department of Streets would like to offer the following testimony on Bill No. 20 000320. This is not an Administration Ordinance, but an Ordinance requested by Mr. Rick Goldstein, Hangley, Aronchick, Segal & Pudlin, attorneys at law, One Logan Square, 12th Floor, Philadelphia, PA, 19103. 120 BILL NO. 000320 The purpose of this Ordinance is to extend the time period to assemble the site for the Jump Street Project on North Broad Street. This ordinance is supported by the Department of Streets and is recommended to your committee for favorable recommendation.
Thank you. Any questions for this witness? Council Member Clarke.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning. Mr. Loney, I have a question with respect to notification. Although Carlisle Street is not a very widely used street, there are some people in the immediate community that use that. Is there any sort of notification process to the surrounding residents?
Yes. One of the processes of the Ordinance is the Board of Surveyors hold public hearings. Regrettably, City Council only advertises in the newspaper. But our charge is to go out there and actually post notices in the neighborhood, and, therefore, invite everybody to come in to that Public Hearing, which was held last 121 BILL NO. 000318 summer.
Any other questions of this witness? Anyone else here who wishes to testify? Hearing none, thank you, and I apologize. I should have done that sooner this morning. We are going to recess the Public Hearing on the bills in the Streets and Services committee until immediately following the conclusion of the Committee of the Whole. Thank you. (Public Hearing stands in recess.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The Committee on Streets and Services is now reconvening from our earlier session. Is Mr. Dougherty in the room, or is anybody else? We are still going to be hearing testimony on the bill. AUDIENCE MEMBER: He would like to conclude his testimony at this time. 122 BILL NO. 000318
Any further testimony on any of the bills? Hearing none, this concludes the Public Hearing of the Committee on Streets and Services. (Public Hearing adjourned.) - - - 123 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC MEETING of the COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES - - - WEDNESDAY, MAY 31, 2000 - - - Public Meeting conducted by the Committee on Streets and Services, held in Room 400, City Hall, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on the above date, to consider action on the following: BILLS 000318, 000317, 000320 - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO, Chair COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE - - - 124 PUBLIC MEETING
We now move into the public meeting on the Committee on Streets and Services. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz on a motion for Bill No. 317.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 317 be moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation, and a recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading in the next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 317 be reported out a committee recommendation and that the Rules of Council be suspended. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed. The ayes have it. The bill is approved. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Mr. Chairman, I 125 PUBLIC MEETING move that Bill No. 318 be moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading in the next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It has been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 318 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and that the Rules of Council be suspended. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed. The ayes have it, the bill is approved. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Mr. Chairman, I moved that Bill No. 320 of moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at the next session of City Council. 126 PUBLIC MEETING (Duly seconded.)
It has been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 320 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and that the Rules of Council be suspended. All those in favor of the bill 8 signify by saying aye. Those opposed. The bill is approved. This concludes the public meeting of the Committee on Streets and Service. And I want to thank everyone for their testimony, I think. (Public Meeting adjourned at 12:35 p.m.) - - - 127 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Wednesday, May 31, 2000, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES _____________________________________ DEBRA A. WHITEHEAD, RPR