And those are the eligible individuals? 59 11/28/01 RULES - BILLS 010493, 010509
Yes. Those individuals will be eligible for consideration as their name is reached on the list.
So once those thousand individuals are listed that were picked out of a lottery, you're suggesting that the ones that are not City residents, right, are taken off of that thousand rank, and then we go get an additional whatever that number will be amount? I'm trying to understand your thinking in this.
Yes, yeah. If you don't have a thousand Philadelphia residents. But the Personnel Director testified that that's not going to be an issue. There will be more than a thousand Philadelphia residents.
The list will be restricted to Philadelphia residents, who will get a 60 11/28/01 RULES - BILLS 010493, 010509 preference.
And you could do it for a civil service test just like you do it for a military. (Addressing Linda Seyda.) Am I correct? You could give a residence preference.
The -- Well, I would like to have some further discussion with the attorneys before I go too far down this road. But the civil service regulations do provide for what we call "selective factor certification" for two categories: One is language and the other is residency. We have never used the -- used residency -- actually, we've never actually applied it, but the regulation is on the books. So I would think that you could use that in a way to provide preference for City residents. But, again, I think it would be appropriate to have some further discussion with the attorneys.
Okay, thank you. 61 11/28/01 RULES - BILLS 010493, 010509
I want to emphasize a most important problem, the one directly in front of us, which is the Police Department. So while we may debate and argue about the broader problem, action, I think, really requires addressing.
I actually voted for that in the committee, that bill.
I think we all agree that the staffing of the Police Department is going to be an important issue over the next couple of years.
Thank you. Lorraine Brill, please. (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning. I'm Lorraine Brill. I live at 814 Disston Street and am a resident of Philadelphia all my life. I didn't even know this hearing was being held today, and I just happened to come in 'cause I'm going to stay for a later hearing. But I have to give you the benefit of my experience. 62 11/28/01 RULES - BILLS 010493, 010509 I'm a retired civil service of the City. I was hired in 1962, worked for 30 years, and retired in 1993. And I do have to tell you is my experience in working with community and so on, I think it's very important that residency in Philadelphia get the main preference, that we keep things the way they are. I can't speak for the Police Department. I worked for the Free Library and I saw many people come into the system through civil service. If they had had to compete with people outside the City who maybe had come in, they would not have had their jobs. And I have to say that everybody that went through the training and the civil service became excellent employees of the City. I know when I took the test, if there had been people from outside the City, I might not have gotten the job 'cause they were only hiring 10 people at the time I got hired. We do have a waiver ability and I know in the library, they used waiver abilities when they had a hard time getting people and so on. But we also ran into the problem where 63 11/28/01 RULES - BILLS 010493, 010509 people come in from outside the City, then when they have to move in, they leave 'cause they didn't want to move into the City. This could happen with the Police Department. They come in, they get the training, and then they leave because now they can go someplace else because we paid for them to train and they don't want to stay. I think we're underestimating, that we do have a large pool of talent here in the City already. And regardless of what's going on with the schools, we happen to know that we have some excellent schools in the City and there are people. So I think you have people here -- we're already -- we have job access programs, we're transporting people out to King of Prussia for jobs. We need to support the people that are already in the City and need the jobs. And it's very nice to try to get people to move in, but they will move in for other things.
Lorraine, with all due respect -- they're not moving in, Lorraine, they're moving out
We need to take care of the people that are here first, and there are many, 64 11/28/01 RULES - BILLS 010493, 010509 many people looking for jobs.
Let me ask you a question. If you owned a bookstore -- instead of being a librarian, you owned a bookstore on Cottman Avenue and you were interviewing people to come in and work in your bookstore, and you came across a young man or woman that was really brilliant, really loved books, understood the business, was well red, was conversant, was a great personality, and find at the end of the application or the end of the interview that the person lived in West Chester; would you not hire that person because they lived outside the City?
Yes, and I'll tell you why: Because you want somebody who's reliable and is going to be there every day and lives close to where they work. And that's very important because if --
So you think residency is the first and most important element of hiring someone?
As a beginning, but then, you know, they still have to take the test and you still get qualified people within. If you have a 65 11/28/01 RULES - BILLS 010493, 010509 position -- and I know that waivers are in like the medical field where there's a hard time, you know, and specialty people that you might have a hard time getting people. But as long as the people pass the test with, you know, passing grades and they meet it and you have a list and there are qualified people, we should be supporting those people; we shouldn't be paying welfare for them when we can give them jobs. And they're already here in the City. There are people that are dedicated to living in the City that don't want to move out, but sometimes they're forced to move out because they can't get a job in the City. And I can only say, you know, over the 30 years that I worked with the people -- my husband was also manager of the Finance Department. When he was there, he had people working for him who he trained and who moved up the ladder. And there are people available. And I would like to see Philadelphia residents who have made this city important and who live here -- I'm not saying the people from someplace else, you know, wouldn't want to stay here because I have seen that happen, but 66 11/28/01 RULES - BILLS 010493, 010509 we do have a lot of people that need jobs and I would like to see them get first crack at everything. That's my feeling.
I just want to say that I agree with you a thousand percent. The reality is that I think that individuals who have made the commitment, not speculatively, but they've made the commitment, they've stayed in the City of Philadelphia or are seeking gainful employment should be given that opportunity. I think the reality is that our ability to attract people to the City -- if you talk about the ability to get a City job, I think that's real low down on the list, to be honest with you. The people that left didn't leave because, you know, they weren't able to get a City job; there were a 67 11/28/01 RULES - BILLS 010493, 010509 lot of other reasons.
And while I understand the concept of increasing opportunities to bring residents into the City, I just think that in this particular case, particularly in those categories where we have a substantial and overabundance of individuals who are already on the ranks, waiting to be hired, waiting to be interviewed, I think that's the wrong way to go. So I want to thank you very much for your testimony.
Good luck. Let's see what happens in the next ten years when we lose another hundred thousand people. Thank you very much for your attendance. (Proceedings end at 11:32 a.m.) - - - 68 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia's meeting of the Council Committee on Rules of Wednesday, 11/28/01, 2001, are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. RE: Ordinance No.'s 010493, 010509, 010526 _______________________________, Josephine Cardillo Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)