Yes. Hi. My name is Tom Bonner. I'm senior manager of state government affairs with PECO. As you know, PECO is the electric company that serves Philadelphia and the suburban counties. Thank you for the opportunity to testify here today. In addition to leading the company's legislative policy efforts, my responsibilities also include collaborating with the Philadelphia Office of Sustainability and the Philadelphia Energy Authority. I've been actively involved in PECO's efforts to support transportation electrification since 2009, including representing the company on City EV Task Force that was organized by Councilman Squilla back in 2016, 2017, and also the, the EV task force that was held in 2023. Take a moment just to commend and thank 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. Chris Puchalsky, Anna Kelly, Akshay Malik, they did a really extraordinary job organizing those sessions, and I think they're going to produce for you a very productive plan to help inform the city strategy for EVs going forward. So really compliment them on that effort. We've also been an anchor tenant in the Drive Electric PA Coalition working statewide on EV issues since its inception, and have collaborated with the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission. Really looking at these issues on a regional basis, which is critically important. People don't travel just locally or stop at city or municipal lines. We have really a regional transportation system. Assisting our customers and communities with their efforts to advance electrification is a key component of our company's path to clean strategy, both to reduce our own greenhouse gas emissions and assist our customers and communities in their own efforts. We do not own or operate publicly accessible EV charging stations. Pennsylvania law is still developing in terms of defining what 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. the role is for public utilities in any form of ownership of public charging stations, and at this time the private sector and both equipment developers and site hosts are taking that lead role. The question, I think, still has to play out as to really in terms of ensuring equitable access if there is a role or not, for utilities in earn -- owning charging stations to fill in gaps. Right now, with the federal dollars that are available, available through the IIJA, both the NEVI program and the Charging and Fueling Infrastructure Program, there does seem to be good momentum for providing that access. But I think time will tell there whether there is a role that, you know, we ultimately get bought in and asked to play. Where we have focused our efforts is on providing incentives, technical support and education to support the development of the EV market. To summarize our efforts, first in terms of our own fleet, we are aiming -- the Path to Clean says we're going to reduce our 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. greenhouse gas footprint by 50 percent from a 2015 baseline by 2030, and then the goal is to achieve net zero by 2050. For our vehicles in our fleet, we're using a combination of full battery electric vehicles, plug-in hybrid vehicles, and then for some of our heavier duty equipment, what you do is you electrify the equipment and the cab, but the vehicle is still operating on liquid fuels, at least, you know, for the time being. There are some particular constraints for utilities. We operate on what's called a, a mutual assistance model, where when you have a major event like Hurricane Sandy or the ice storm in 2014, crews from all over the country will come and assist us with power restoration, and when the event hits there, we do the same for them. So you have to be able to ensure that those heavy duty bucket trucks can travel across country. Right now, there's not the infrastructure to support charging heavy duty vehicles moving all across the country. So we, we may not ultimately be able to fully electrify 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172.
all of our vehicles, but we're watching the technology develop and helping advance that. Was really pleased we were the, the title sponsor of the Philadelphia Auto Show's e- Track. We've done something with the auto show back since 2020, and we premiered a fully electric bucket truck at that event. It was great. It drew a ton of attention. People from all over the floor of the auto show could see it and came over to check out the all-electric bucket truck. We offer infrastructure incentives so you -- applicants can achieve, under our public benefit charging program, up to 50 percent rebate on the cost of installing EV infrastructure. That -- the public purpose program includes fleets, transit and paratransit, school buses, taxi and ride share vehicles, apartments, and then locations that are made available to the general public. We have enhanced incentives that are also available for charging stations that are located in environmental justice communities. Our current program expires at the end of this year, but as part of our recently filed 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. electric rate case, we applied to extend that through the end of 2026. For rate incentives, as the market for EV fast-charging service, it's still in its developmental stage. We offer what's called a, a demand charge relief. So when someone puts in a fast charger, even if that charger is only used once a month, that will set the bill for that one -- that charger being used once a month. As you build up demand, those demand charges can be a bit of an impediment to getting the infrastructure out there. So we reduce those charges by 50 percent for the first three years of operation while they build up utilization levels. You don't want to do that everywhere because then you never build up the utilization levels if people are getting free electricity. So you really want to balance the market. You want to get enough infrastructure out there to address that range anxiety that Councilmember Ahmad talked about, but you don't want to build everywhere because it's expensive and you can't ever get to the point of commercial viability. So you're always 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. trying to strike that balance there. For residential customers, we also offer time of use rates so that people can do their charging overnight when there's lots of extra capacity on the grid and extra supply and they can get a cheaper rate for that. In terms of operational support, we have subject matter experts that have worked on pretty much every EV charging station installation project that has come into our region. So they've kind of seen it all, know it all, and can work with the customer to meet their needs. As soon as a project is filed with us through a service and meter application for EV charging, it gets assigned to one of our subject matter experts and they will work hand in hand with the customer from really application to energization. It's a tough word to say, energization. Public education. As I think everyone has noted, there's still a very low level of knowledge and understanding of issues related to EVs. So we work hard to get out into the 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. community and educate the public on EV issues. We lead numerous STEM education events. I've been involved in a lot of those. That is -- those are some of the most fun hours of, of my year, when I get to do those. We have presentations to community organizations and our EV website offers -- offers a wide range of tools for the public, including how the -- how much they will save in fuel, how much they will reduce their carbon footprint, and also their, you know, the, the bottom line, how much it's going to save their wallet to shift from gasoline or diesel to an electric vehicle. Grant support is huge right now. We talked a little -- I know everyone has talked about the NEVI program and the IIJA.
So the state of Pennsylvania overall was provided $151 million to support the development of its fast- charging network. And we've been pleased to partner with PennDOT since day one on the implementation of that. One thing we have stressed to them is you don't want to just meet the minimum standards of, of the NEVI program and put chargers 50 miles 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. away. When you have a densely populated area, like the Philadelphia area, that's accountable for about 40 or 50 percent of all the EVs in the state, you need to build out a radial network so that people can come in and out of the city along different routes and have access to charging. The other advantage of that is instead of building a handful of huge charging hubs that have very expensive electric infrastructure and really long lead time in building out that infrastructure, you can build smaller facilities that are serving a broader geographic area and get them built faster and cheaper. And PennDOT has done a fantastic job. They're one of the national leaders. I think they were the second state to get a project energized. There are some states that haven't even put out their first RFP yet. PennDOT's on their third round. So really can't compliment them enough. We've also worked closely with the city and the DVRPC on applications under that CFI program. Unfortunately, no one in Pennsylvania won first round CFI grants, but we're really pleased that the city and DVRPC are now jointly 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. working together on a joint regional application for the CFI program. We are, you know, happy to again be an anchor tenant in that effort and do everything we can to support that. And finally, as you know, it has been mentioned earlier, the city won an EV workforce development program. So I know the IBEW is working with that. We're also working to develop content and provide training on how to work with the utility on the -- on the installation of charging stations. So, in summary, creating an EV friendly city with infrastructure that supports all forms of transportation and that includes transit, that includes passenger vehicles, that could include electric bikes. I was talking to an electric bike guy just the other day. It will require planning, collaboration, and public engagement. Establishing this infrastructure in an urbanized environment does present some unique challenges, but the benefits to the environment and the long- term cost savings more than justify that effort. So we really commend you on holding this hearing today. We've been proud of the 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. efforts we've undertaken over the last years to work with the city on this, and we know that's only going to accelerate and become more important in the years ahead. So thank you.
Yes. Thank you 9 so much for that testimony. I'll ask Ignatius 10 around -- first of all, thank you to your father, 11 because I actually went -- go to that King of 12 Plaza --King of Prussia Plaza and charge my car 13 there. So -- 14
So, you know, what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, for installation, you need a certified electrician to do the installation. I'm told for maintenance you don't need that. Is that true?
So from, from my understanding, there's a couple different parameters to follow under different parts of installations, specifically through the infrastructure plan, through President Biden. In that plan, it mentioned having 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. certification in order to install anything that was funded through that grant. And in that, it also mentioned the EVITP training specifically. So anything that is funded by that should have a certified, not only electrician, but someone certified in electric vehicle installation. I don't believe that there's any wording in there specifically for maintenance. I think it is just for installation. However, just along with any type of electrical installation, anytime you do have electrical installation or maintenance, you should have an electrical licensed, you know, contractor to be able to do that work. And then whenever you have maintenance, often, there is the need to do energized electrical work, which would be the case with electric vehicle charging systems. And once you have the need for energized work, you need to have someone who has training, specifically an NFPA 70E for that. That's -- and that's according to OSHA and the National -- the National Fire Protection Agency that says that you have to have someone who's qualified for 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. those. So where it doesn't say for maintenance, maybe specifically, in still a general application of how an electrician should work is they should have those certifications when they're doing that energized work.
And we can talk about whether that clarification needs to be made, right? And, and how we include that in something.
I was just going to add one thing. So certainly the maintenance on the actual electric interconnection and the equipment is one thing. Another factor to keep in mind is the maintenance of the IT connection and the telematics --
-- in the charging station. Because a lot of literature I've read, when a station is nonfunctional, it is at least as common that it's the telematics that's the 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. problem --
So another question, which we really haven't discussed much here. How much area would you think it would be necessary for an EV station with the canopy of some sort? Some -- is there a need for protection outside of the freezing, really hot? I, I don't know -- because we don't have those at all. They're not like our gas stations, right? So I just wondered, what do you envision, since, you know, you folks work with these, what is the optimal user experience to have any kind of canopy or shade or something? Is that necessary for the equipment, and is that something that would, you know, make it more attractive?
So, for the equipment itself, to my understanding, I don't think 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. there's any protection necessarily necessary for the equipment itself. I mean, the electrical aspects of it, the over current protection and every -- breakers and everything else, protecting the wires and everything, is more --
-- than sufficient during installation. One of the things I would say is, usually physical protection is a good aspect to have, because obviously you have cars pulling up to these stations, and, you know, as you've seen just anywhere in the city and country, drivers often make mistakes, whether it be you think of like the yellow bollards that are put up in front of a strip mall that have glass fronts so they don't accidentally go through the glass fronts. Same thing with a charging station. Sometimes it's best to have bollards in certain locations to prevent that. Curbs. If there's a curb there, that may help to prevent it from being hit as well. I think more of the physical damage related to cars. The other aspects for protection is the 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. cord itself. The cord is the most common issue that you have outside of networking. The most common physical problem is cord damage. It's run over, it's not taken care of, and it could be stolen as well, to be honest with you. Theft is an issue with it. So as one of the previous speakers said, a retractable type of cord would be ideal, although that comes to -- with an expense there. The other types of protection, I think, would be more related to maybe the user's protection, you know, in a well-lit area, closer to a building, where they would feel more accommodating to be able to use it and safe in that -- in that environment. But outside of those -- outside of those protections, I don't really think of anything else on the electrical side.
The, the reason I ask is, Chicago just had this big issue when they had a very -- they had a snowstorm, ice storm, really, and the chargers were dysfunctional, and cars were piling up apparently. We don't have -- You know, with climate change, we don't have as 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. cold winters here anymore, but. And I also heard that heat, very high heat, is also a problem.
So, again, just going, going off of my experience, and I --
-- might not be 100 percent, but usually the electric vehicle charging systems and equipment, I don't think are that greatly affected by the cold and heat. I think that's more related to the batteries in the electric vehicle themselves.
The batteries in an electric vehicle and batteries in general, when it's extremely hot out, they get -- they create heat as well. So the extra heat adds on to the likelihood of damage, or would be similar to overcharging the battery.
Whereas cold weather, the electrons basically inside the battery, which are chemical based, they, they don't move as freely. They're almost like us. They're too cold to move. So they react slower, and the charging 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. times get reduced because of that.
Yeah. I feel cautious in adding anything to what a fourth-generation electrician has to say but I, I have been an EV owner since 2018. In general, in really cold weather, I think you -- a vehicle probably lose about 30 percent --
-- my experience. I've never found to have significantly reduced range, even in hot weather, except, you know, to the extent you're really running the air condition high.
But I, I don't think it's a big issue with hot. In terms of charging speed, I -- there is certainly a little bit of that factor of the -4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172.
-- electrons moving more slowly, but there's, there's no reason the equipment will not function. They have EVs all up in Canada. There are EVs in Alaska and Norway. Their climate's a lot colder than ours, that are, you know, leaders in electrification.
And in terms of canopies, I think I have seen some examples of like solar canopies that are being put in --
-- where you -- they're putting solar panels on the top of canopies and getting some emission free electric that way. In general, you could say, "Well, canopy will make it more comfortable for me to sit in my car while I charge." But when a business owner puts an EV charging, they generally would prefer you go --
-- into their store while they're charging. So I think there --
-- may be a little bit of 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. a push and pull on that.
Okay. And my last question is, is PECO -- Exelon and PECO involved in any -- you know, battery size and battery capacitation is an issue for our cars, right? Are you guys involved in that research at all? Is that in your lane?
In terms of like second life batteries, battery recycling, those issues -
Quality and capacity of that and including also concurrently having the fast chargers. To have the fast chargers be able to, to charge the battery.
Yeah. So there are some companies that are building EV charging equipment that have batteries that are integrated into it. It makes the charging station more expensive, but 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. it is a interesting idea, because one thing we don't want -- well, if we want to avoid to the greatest extent possible, is people charging during those hottest peak summer days, the hottest hours. Most EV charging, we can offer incentives and people can manage their own demand to keep it out of those peak hours. But if somebody is driving along the highway, when are they going to stop? They're going to stop when they want to stop to eat. And unfortunately, that's the same time as the peak.
So some of these companies are saying, "Well, let's put batteries in so that we don't have to be drawing off the grid at peak times and we can get a cheaper rate that way." All that stuff is still kind of like evolving, but it's very interesting. That's also a question, like when transit systems are putting in charging, especially like what they call en-route charging, where the bus will stop for a couple of minutes, get a booster shot of charge, and, you know, they 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. can either put in a battery that provides that booster shot in the, the peak hours, or, you know, they can, you know, build their strategy so that they're bypassing the charger during the peak hours. So there's a lot of stuff that's still pretty early on in development. And that's where the vehicle manufacturers, the utilities, the municipalities, we all need to be working together and talking to each other, because what we want as a utility, we want to make the most optimal use of our grid. The grid is built to serve that hottest summer day. Just about all other times, we've got extra capacity. And to the extent that more people are using it during the lower capacity times, that puts downward pressure on everybody's electric rates. And that's a good thing for everybody. And we just need to work together to keep the, the charges out of the peak times.
I, I hope that answered your question. 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172.
You talked about PECO not owning any of the charging sites at this time. Could you expound on what the implications are for, you know, related to whether PECO owns or does not own stations?
Yes. So, Pennsylvania, the law is really silent on whether utilities can own charging stations and put the cost of that investment into the rates that people pay for their electricity. I don't think there's anybody who envisions -- and, and there are other states where utilities own charging stations. I don't think anybody envisions a situation where I drive an EV, I drive up to a charging station, and I get power that's subsidized by somebody else. The question is, can you put the cost of installing the charging station in rates and then collect it back over, 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. you know, 10, years? Pennsylvania law just doesn't speak to it at all. There are some participants in the market who say -- who say, "No, we should never let utilities own and operate, because that's an impediment to the private sector, the non- utilities." There are others who say there are parts of the, the private market that are never - that are never going to be served. You know, those underserved communities we talked about earlier, that's all still being sorted out in Pennsylvania.
So if PECO 15 owns stations, they might be cheaper for people 16 is that? 17
The concern would be 18 because we're building -- we would be building it 19 within the regulated model, there's less risk, so 20 we could, in theory, you know, undercut the -- somebody who was developing them with a higher risk.
I see. And then I imagine there might be implications on like where stations are. 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172.
I would say if some -- as a public utility, we operate under a universal service model. So you could say we would be well suited to providing a public access charger that might not be economically, you know, attractive to somebody else. And all that's still, you know, I think we're all figuring it out and the market's still in really early-stage development. There have been bills introduced since, I think, 2018 in the legislature. Most of them have carved out a underserved community role, potentially for utilities, but none of them have been able to make it all the way to our governor's desk.
Thank you. And a question for Mr. Fletcher. If -- I think I heard the city say that we had a goal of, or that we need some 20,000 charging stations or somewhere along those lines. How many jobs would it create if we were to go about, you know, if we were to try to reach that goal?
I can't -- I can't speak on numbers for jobs. I'm an instructor at the Apprentice Training. So that would be more on 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. the business office side of our Local. All I can say is that whatever the workforce that would be needed, I'm confident that Local 98 would be able to sustain that workforce and help that workforce, both in what we currently have, what we continue to do, and even through other programs like Plug In Philly, to help others be able to go through, whether it be our program or a portion of our program, to be able to install it. I've trained three years' worth of apprentices, which is over 225 apprentices have gone through the training. I currently have 75 more apprentices right now that are in the midst of training. And I've taught a couple hundred journeymen the course as well, since it's -- since we've really hit the ground running with, with all that. But as far as the number of jobs that would create, I don't have any good numbers on that. I apologize.
Thank you. That's okay. Just curious. Any other questions from members of the committee for this panel?
No, we're good. 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172.
Okay. Thank you so much for your testimony today and for your work.
I want to note for the record that we have written testimony that was submitted by the following people, Natasha Fackler, infrastructure coordinator at PennDOT, Ariella Maron, executive director of Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission, Michael Bernhardt, PhD, director of transportation at University of Pennsylvania, Devi Ramkissoon, executive director of the Sustainable Business Network, Jennifer Reagan, an EV owner, and, and we appreciate the submission of that testimony. Is there anyone else here today to testify on this resolution? Seeing that there's no one else here to testify on the resolution, this concludes the business of the Joint Committee on the Environment, as well as the Creative and Innovative Economy, and we will 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. adjourn for today. The public hearing on Resolution No. 4 240172 is recessed to the call of the chair. So thank you so much, everyone, for your attendance. Thank you, Councilmember Ahmad.
Thank you. - - - (Joint Committee was adjourned.) 4/26/24 - JOINT - RESOLUTION NO. 240172. CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTIONIST I, ERICA PARADYSZ, Legal Transcriptionist, do hereby certify: That the foregoing is a complete and true transcription of the original digital audio recording of the proceedings captured in the foregoing matter. IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 13th day of May, 2024. ______________________________________ Erica Paradysz