So even without a document, you've agreed on a certain set of services, you've talked about money, services have been provided. At some level, you do have a contract?
What's the 90 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. likelihood of success if someone performed all these services and we didn't pay and -- what was that term again?
No. I understand that. I took Latin, but I didn't have that one. So it's a form of a contract. And would they be successful in such a claim?
It's not a contract claim. It's actually an equitable claim.
I'm not a judge, but I think they would have a very strong claim.
Okay. 91 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. Thank you very much. I appreciate this. This has been quite enlightening. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. You're welcome. Before we end this part of our hearing and enter our stated meeting, would you have a little discussion on the amendment so that people will understand what we'll be dealing with?
Yes. Madam Chair, we've passed up to the Committee -- I believe everyone has a copy -- an amendment to Bill No. 051138, which is an amendment to Article 8, which essentially provides for an amendment to the management agreement between the City and PFMC. The management agreement currently has a ceiling of $100 million on temporary financing, which would include the Commercial Paper Program. We are seeking to amend the management agreement to make it consistent with the 92 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. ordinance that's been presented so that the ceiling would be increased to $150 million.
Thank you. Councilman Nutter, you had a question?
I'm just listening to the testimony. I saw the amendment. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I'll be brief again. I'm only, I guess, raising the question that if there was a $100 million limit in the management agreement, as this bill came in, it seemed to be about a borrowing, and I would just ask if someone could answer the question: Can you amend the management agreement, which was approved by ordinance, in the middle of a financing bill, whose title on quick reading would seem to be more about a financing as opposed to making an amendment to the management agreement?
Well, Council 93 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. would be amending the management agreement by ordinance, by this particular ordinance.
And the title of the ordinance does include the provision for amendments and modifications to the ordinance.
Right. Well, I guess you're right on the edge of a wonderful technicality. Is there anything in the title that would seem to indicate that the management agreement, which has a name and is often referred to by ordinance, is also proposed to be amended in this bill? I mean, we've amended the management agreement before in a legitimate bill 21 that was for the purpose of amending the management agreement.
Well, Councilman, first, there is actually not a requirement that the management agreement 94 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. be amended in order for this particular ordinance to pass. It's essentially an accommodation that we're making here by doing this.
I thought your comment earlier was that there was something in the management agreement that only allowed for a certain level of note to be outstanding at any point in time.
The current version of the management agreement states that the temporary financing is to be up to $100 million.
And the purpose of this proposed amendment is to make an adjustment?
And the only -- 95 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC.
But the only way you can amend the management agreement --
I'm only suggesting to you that the quick reading of this title and what appeared to be the initial purpose of this bill coming in was about debt, and now we have an amendment coming in that seeks to amend the management agreement, with nothing in the title indicating that that's the purpose of the bill. I mean, if you could tell me that there was something in the title that said that --
Point of information. 96 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC.
-- other than the catchall phrase, which we know is virtually --
Excuse me, Councilman. We have a point of information on the table. Councilman Goode.
I actually understand your point. I think that the original purpose of it was not necessarily to amend the agreement, but I do think this is very broad language at the end which probably covers it. It's extremely broad.
For it to say "and providing for amendments and modifications" I think probably does cover it.
And we have had agreements, am I correct, gentlemen and ladies, we have agreement 97 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. by PGW, the Commission, all the lawyers from all sides?
No. I understand. I'm only raising the issue in the context that generally when we have amendments to the management agreement between the City and PFMC, they usually come in that way, and there would be the full notice that that's what the case is. I understand the issue and the purpose and there's a timing issue, and Councilman Goode is absolutely correct, generally what we see is either this language or "all under certain terms and conditions," which is another wonderful way of getting some things done. It's a question. I just raised the question. You gave us an answer. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. 98 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC.
Thank you, Councilman. Any other questions? (No response.)
This will end our hearing, and we will enter the stated meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos, who is also a co-sponsor of this bill, to report out Bill No. 040470. Councilman Clarke, do you want a suspension of the rules on your bill?
The Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos for the purpose of reporting out of Committee Bill No. 040470 with a favorable recommendation. (Councilman DiCicco entered Council Chambers.)
The Chair thanks Councilman DiCicco for being here as well.
You're 99 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. welcome.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill No. 040470 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation. I further move that the rules --
No 9 suspension is required I think the Councilman said.
It has been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 040470 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and so the bill passes. 100 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. Councilman Clarke, would you like to report out your other bill that is co-signed by Councilman DiCicco, Councilman Ramos, Councilman Goode on both and others?
The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke with regard to reporting out Bill 050303 with a favorable recommendation.
Thank you, Madam President. I move to report Bill 14 050 --
I'm sorry. Thank you, Councilman Goode. We will now ask Councilman Clarke for the adoption of an amendment to Bill No. 050303.
Madam Chair, actually, what I would like to do, because we anticipate that there will be probably two other amendments, I'm just 101 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. going to ask that it be reported out of Committee, and then we will amend it on the second reading.
Given the nature of the bill, it's not something that we can enact immediately, and I want to make sure that the amendments are the appropriate amendments based on the conversations that we had today. There are a couple of things that we need to massage. So I'll just wait and we'll do them all.
All right. Then we will call on you for purposes of reporting the bill out.
Madam Chair, I make a motion that Bill 050303 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation, no request for rules suspension. (Duly seconded.)
It has 102 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. been moved and seconded that Bill No. 3 050303 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and so the bill passes. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode with regard to Bill No. 051136.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill 051136 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Council session. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 24 051136 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and, 103 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. furthermore, that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and so the bill passes. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco with regard to Bill No. 051137.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill No. 051137 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended. (Duly seconded.)
Thank you. It has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 051137 be reported out of Committee and that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first 104 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. reading at our next session. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and so the bill passes. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode with regard to Bill No. 051138.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move the amendment to Bill 501338 be approved. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that the amendment to Bill No. 051138 be adopted. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The amendment is adopted. 105 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. The Chair now recognizes Councilman Goode for a motion with regard to the bill as amended.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill 051138 as amended be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation, that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Council session. (Duly seconded.)
Therefore, Bill No. 051138 will be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and, furthermore, the rules of Council will be suspended so as to permit first consideration at our next session of Council. That ends our session. I would like to say thank you to all who are 106 12/07/05 - FINANCE - BILLS 051136, ETC. here. Thank you to Committee members. Thank you, Councilman Nutter, and all else who are in the audience. Thank you, Mr. Spearman. We see you there. Thank you for coming. (Committee on Finance adjourned at 4:10 p.m.) - - - 107 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on December 7, 2005, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)