COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON RULES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, June 6, 2006 10:30 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL BILLS 060290, 060342, 060344, 060445, 060446, 060312, 060442, 060444 - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good morning, everyone. We regret the delay. However, we are now ready to proceed with the public hearing of the Committee on Rules. I would like the record to reflect to my immediate left is Councilwoman Miller. Also joining us to my extreme right is Councilman Kenney and Councilman Clarke. I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read Bill No. 060290. MR. McPHERSON: An ordinance to amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of land located within an area bounded by Poplar Street, Canal Street, Lewellen Street and Delaware Avenue.
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning, Madam President and members of the Rules 3 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. Committee. My name is William Kramer. I am the Senior Zoning Planner in the Development Planning Division of the City Planning Commission. I am here today to testify on Bill 060290, which was introduced by Councilmember DiCicco April 20, 2006. This bill will rezone an approximately one acre area of property in a block bounded by Poplar Street, Delaware Avenue, Lewellen Street and Canal Street. The property is currently zoned G-2 General Industrial and this ordinance would change the zoning to a designation of C-5 Commercial. The change would allow for the development of a mixed-use commercial, office space, hotel and residential tower. This proposal calls for a development of approximately 1.4 million square feet, including two floors of retail commercial, with 36,000 square feet, three floors containing 66,000 square feet of office space, a ten-story hotel 4 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. providing 170 units, and 55 stories of residential development providing 352 units. In addition, a parking garage is proposed that will contain 1,100 parking spaces. The Planning Commission at its meeting of May 18, 2006 considered and approved Bill 060290. I would be happy to answer any questions of the Committee.
Thank you. Before asking you questions, I would also like to acknowledge the presence of Councilman Kelly. Mr. Kramer, how many stories tall would this building be?
Is the parking garage a separate building? If so, how tall will that be? 5 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC.
It is a separate building immediately adjacent to the tower. As far as its exact height, the architects are here and would probably be better able to answer that question.
I would like to hear. I don't know about other members of the Committee. If the architect is here, would he please approach the witness table.
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Yes. I wanted to thank you for the opportunity and I wanted to thank also your colleagues as well. My name is Jorge Lovera and I'm a principal with Agoos/Lovera Architects in Philadelphia. And I have my partner also with me.
Ted Agoos, also a principal with Agoos/Lovera Architects. 6 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC.
I believe you heard my question. We're told that the parking garage will be a separate building. My question is, how tall will it be?
You 13 really believe in a lot of the height, 14 don't you? 15
Well, actually, it will not be that high, because it's an automated parking garage. It is the type of technology that is --
No, there is no 23 ramps. And basically the height floor to floor is only maximum of eight feet versus 11 feet. So it's going to be a 7 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. much -- not as tall a building as it had been a traditional parking garage. And the height is --
It's about 140 feet. There's a 20-foot tall retail floor at ground level and then the 8 stories above that. 9
Why 10 don't you just sit there until we ask our 11 questions. I think that would be 12 helpful. 13 Of the approximate one acre of 14 property, how much of it will be covered 15 by the development?
Actually, there are two areas that will be open. One will be a park on the Canal Street side and then there's a galleria that is actually on the north side. Basically, as I recall, it's about 70 percent of the site will be open -- or 70 percent of the site is actually covered by the building.
Seventy percent is covered by the 8 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. building.
Can you tell me what the reaction of the community has been to this proposal, and also, Mr. Kramer, you could tell us probably what are the surrounding uses?
The surrounding uses to the immediate south are residential proposals that were, as a matter of fact, were considered about a year ago last June, were considered as the 700 North Delaware Brownstone Development Group. It was a development proposal, I believe it's, at Spring Garden Street. Immediately to the north we know that there have been no less than three or four applications currently under consideration by the Zoning Board of Adjustment. It's a former industrial area and there's a lot of industrial uses in here that are under the process of being 9 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. converted to residential. Some are more intensively being developed than others. This is obviously a much more intensive development residentially than currently on the other sites immediately to the north of this. Across Delaware Avenue is the waterfront development, the four towers that are on the river itself, as are a number of different towers that are here. This is also just a little bit north of the Marina View site, which is down by the Benjamin Franklin Bridge support that was also a matter considered by this Committee.
The last one was Mr. Chicalese. There have been a number of different developers that have gone on the other different sites. I don't know them all off the top of my head.
So we don't know who the present developer is? 10 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC.
Thank you. What is the projected cost of the development?
Mr. Stein, would you take the microphone, identify yourself.
Projected cost is 11 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. 350 million.
So if this were approved, what is the completion date?
Mr. Kramer, approximately how far is this site from the Delaware River?
Obviously it's right at Delaware Avenue. We're talking approximately 1,100 to 1,500 feet depending on where you measure it from.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney. 12 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC.
Thank you, Madam President. Gentlemen, could you describe the construction of the building? What's the primary elements of the building structure? How is it put together? I know it's a smaller site, so it's a larger mass going up. Could you talk a little bit about the structure of the property?
It's a good question. I mean, we have a terrific team together. It's an international team. Arup is the engineer for the project, the structural engineer, and they are one of the preeminent structural firms in the world. They've done a lot of projects of this nature in places like Hong Kong, Shanghai, New York and so on and on. David Scott is the principal designer working with us on this. And basically it's very similar to what you see right now going up at Comcast.
Where? I'm 13 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. sorry.
At Comcast, the Comcast Center. It's a poured-in-place concrete core that holds the elevators, trash chute, stairs, all the different means for public safety, and basically there are walls that are about three to four feet thick, and attached to those walls then will be this structural steel frame that actually will support the 66 floors. There are actually two floors that will be mechanical and structural floors. The structure at those floors is so that basically you maintain the exterior frame rigid and very much tight to the core of the building.
I've been doing a little research on another piece of legislation I'm looking at and I wanted to get your opinion generally. Does the design of this building include a lightning protection system?
And do the buildings that are being designed and built now generally of a certain height include that as part of the spec?
It's not a really very expensive element when it's done in the design and structure as opposed to other -- in the other levels of costs, that's really not a big number.
But it's handled from foundation level. It's addressed at the foundation level and then it just carries itself through the building.
And there's different issues as it relates to steel structure and wood frame structure and other types. So there's different types of protection systems that are required. I know this is not a lightning alley. This is not a Florida issue, but I do 15 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. know that as we go up higher with residential property, I understand it's more important to have the lightning protection systems in residential properties because of obviously the mass of people living there hours a day as 8 opposed to just having an office 9 building. So that's something that's 10 kind of general throughout the industry? 11
And is our 14 lightning propensity different than it 15 was? Is it the same? I understand that 16 it's rated based on a national standard 17 as to potential incidence. 18
I don't know 19 enough about that particular question to 20 give you an answer, but I don't know, 21 Marc, if -- 22
Yes. Yes. It's a general requirement of all the high-rises 16 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. today.
Yes. I believe it is, yes. I mean, I remember back all the way to the early '80s doing jobs out of state and it was always part of the Code to include it.
I wasn't sure it was included in the Code of Philadelphia, though. Is there a certain height requirement over which you need to do it?
I'm saying is there something in the Code that says over four stories, over five stories?
The other issue, what do you intend the range of -- is it condominium or is it apartments?
It's going to be a 17 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. mixed use, retail, commercial, hotel and then above that condos.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
This development, is it going to be determined by pre-sales whether or not you move ahead, or you're moving ahead regardless?
Financing 18 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. is in place?
The hotel component, is this based on any analysis of the City's hotel vacancy rate?
I mean, personally speaking, I'm a lifetime resident of Philadelphia and I really love the Boutique Hotel situation, and I think that the waterfront now that it's what's happening down there, I think it lends itself to like a Boutique situation. And we're looking at it more as a Boutique situation more than a --
Because we had a gentleman from the Hyatt in here maybe a year ago voicing some concern about his ability to have his occupancy at the level that he needed to have it. He was actually asking for some sort of 19 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. tax relief.
That was the big part of when we looked at it with these guys when we first started out. We have so much mixed use in it, it helps hedge the bet a little bit on the different elements of it, the retail, the commercial, the hotel and the condo. So that if one was a little bit affected, the other one could help pick up the difference in the fluctuation of the markets.
In the event that the hotel component is not successful, it could be converted to condos or apartments?
The footprint of the hotel floors is the same as the residential floors.
Also, we must add 20 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. that the Boutique Hotel is not a convention hotel, so it's expressly just rooms or suites of rooms, I mean, with some amenities. So it's different, very different, than what a Marriott or even a Hyatt probably would want to do.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Just for discussion's sake on Councilman Clarke's point, and I think we wind up having difficulty finding balance. We had our problems at the Convention Center, which seem to have been resolved. During the course of the fall-off on bookings, we had a number of hotels convert to condominiums, I think spurred by the lack of business and by the ten-year tax 21 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. abatement. We're expanding the Center now. So we could potentially be in a situation where we don't have enough hotel space once this Center is expanded. And then we look further down the road with some vision to potentially an Olympics situation, you know, we may be short rooms. It's a really hard formula to figure out, because at some point in time, you're either overstocked or you're understocked, but I think we're moving in the direction. With the expansion and with other things that are coming to the City, we may need to get more hotel rooms on line. The big hoteliers who struggle with rec rates and convention business and filling up the rooms do have those periods of flux where they're extremely concerned, and should be, but I think that what's coming expansion-wise and potentially some of the other major events that may be coming here, I think we may be in need of hotel space three, 22 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. five, seven, ten, 15 years from now.
The people that we've talked about are very excited about Philadelphia and they're very excited about the potential and what's happening here, and it's nice to hear that the hotel vendors, they're excited.
Obviously the expansion is for real, and that alone is going to hopefully create a situation where we're going to need some space, so hopefully it will all coincide in a timely way. Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Hi. Good morning. I see the bill talks about one acre. How many acres does this development take?
It's actually 23 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. only -- it's less than an acre. It's 32,600 square feet, the actual parcel.
The entire project encompasses about two and a half acres. That includes the site that has the parking garage as well as a galleria and retail space that surrounds it.
The 32,000 square foot footprint of the site for the Bridgman's View Tower is what you see here in the site plan. The additional piece of land is really just to the north of that, which is what also takes into account the parking garage. And all of that basically is the two and a half acres approximately for the whole complex.
I'm not -- 24 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: If I could just on that point. Part of the negotiations with the community association led to this final design with the parking garage, and correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Stein, because the community was as concerned and probably most concerned with public space. So Mr. Stein then had to purchase an additional parcel in which to build the parking garage on so that they could provide for a set-back and create public space. And I forgot what the percentage of the public space is, 30 percent or something.
We'll be 30 percent. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So that's why originally it was just the one acre built, even a taller structure, which did not suit the community at the time, and then as a result of the negotiations, as I said, another parcel was purchased by the developer to build a parking garage 25 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. and create that public space.
President Verna, if I may, I could actually explain to you a little bit more fully how especially the ground floor is really laid out, if you would like to.
Is the Committee interested in hearing? Councilman Kenney.
I think members would like to -- some of the members would like to be informed. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I have an open invitation to this Committee, since I have a lot of projects, to come to my community meetings and be part of that whole discussion.
Councilman, I've been to your community meetings. No, thank you. 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC.
You have your own. The project we call the Bridgman's View Tower, and that's a 66-story structure that we just talked about, and that's in the south part of the site and that's this floor plan that you see here before you. Then there's a glazed galleria, which actually is really for basically pedestrian ways. It's part of the open space. There's some shopping there as well. And then there's the parking garage, which you see here on this portion of it, which is what we just described earlier. And in addition to that also is retail, two levels of retail, and two levels of office space above that, not significant numbers, but it's part of the complex. What we were able to do from an open land kind of park point of view is really pull the building towards Delaware Avenue, and by doing so, we have actually a fairly extensive park, as you can see, on this part of the floor plan. And it's 27 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. not just a park, but it's also a place where basically a cafe, outdoor dining can occur. There's possibly a water course as well. So it's really a great amenity that is not only for the residents of the complex, but also for the community as well. In addition to that, as I said, there's the kind of glazed galleria, which is the element that connects the tower itself to the lower-rise element, which is what you see here. You can see the view, pedestrian view, from Poplar Street. This is Poplar. Canal is going over to the side, and then you have Delaware Avenue just on the foreground -- or background. And one thing that we were very interested in doing -- because when you get into high-rise construction, a lot of times architects miss the ball game. I mean, by the fact that you have eight or ten stories of parking, there has to be a transition between the tower itself and 28 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. the pedestrian areas, and when Marc was able to get the additional parcel to the north, then the garage moved out of the original tower, which was really creating some issues in terms of scale and how you really allow this tower to come gracefully down to the ground. So at this point, we've been able to achieve that by the fact that the retail and the office is only five stories. So that is only about 75, 80 feet instead of 175 feet.
And as you can see in some of these renderings -- and these are preliminary, but they're pretty much telling the story -- is really a tower that actually, as I said before, I mean, gracefully comes down to the ground plane. And not only that, but also we've 29 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. created this logia, which is like a columnated area that people can be out of the element, even in summertime. I mean, you can have tables and chairs and people can sit out there, just like you do in Europe where -- they're a little bit ahead of us in that sense. Well, that's what we're adapting here. We're not creating something new, but in a way we're transporting that from that part of the world. And so these dark dots that you see are the columns, and there's about 12 feet in between that and the retail wall. So as a Philadelphian, as somebody coming to visit the City, you can also shop a shop in the embrace of this logia and you can also have cafes out there that actually would have tables, enough space for comfort of tables and chairs, take people in. And so that's really the two sides, the Delaware Avenue side and the Poplar side, and then as I said 30 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. previously, the west side or the Canal Street side is actually this grand park. In addition to that also, we're treating Canal Street as a great amenity. I mean, right now it's a forgotten trash-strewn area, but it's a cobblestone, it has a lot of character and it's got a lot of history, because that's where part of this little creek came across, which is now in a culvert. So we're actually going to reclaim that wonderful character and bring it back to life by providing additional retail along Canal Street as well. All the entrance to the parking garage and exiting from the parking garage will be done off Delaware Avenue, and much of that traffic will actually be onto Delaware Avenue. Not much of it actually being forced onto the community itself.
What are the neighboring properties? I mean, what's next to this? 31 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC.
I believe it's probably with an S probably. So that's all north of the site. Brownstone or Hoboken Brownstone would be to the south. To the west, I mean, there's a couple of vacant lots and one or two small residential places. It's very interesting, because I-95 -- I don't think we have a drawing that shows that, but what community exists west of I-95 is very different than what happens east of I-95, as most of you probably know. West of I-95 is this very densely residential, largely at this point residential community, with some light industrial still existing. To the east, I mean, it's only a few pockets 32 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. of residential. Most of it is either abandoned industrial or somewhat underperforming industrial. So in a way, it's a very natural kind of place for some development of this nature to really happen. In addition to the two floors of, just to expand a little bit, of retail, there's three office and then there's two amenity floors above that. You see a little bit of it here with trellises, which are going to be the lower level, lower amenity level, is basically a health spa, a restaurant and also access to the green roof. And by the way, the project is going to be a lead certified project. So it's a green architecture. That is also going to be accessible by the community and visitors and so on. The upper amenity floor is going to be the registration floor for the hotel and the shops and so on. So the lower amenity floor will have a green 33 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. roof for portions of it, as will the garage. The roof of the garage will be trellised, will have portions of it that will be green roof and will also have a pool as well for the use of the residents of the tower.
And you said the cost of the condos are from 600,000 to 1 million?
It's pretty much a generality right now. It could be a little bit lower. It's all about the...
Sometimes I wonder. You said that the hotel industry is excited about what's going on here in Philadelphia. So I guess people must be excited, too. When doing your 34 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. feasibility study, where do you believe you get your tenants from? Philadelphians?
We believe there's a cross-section. We believe there's a lot of people moving back into the City. We think there's a generation now that the kids are older and they're moving back to the City where they originally started. And we think that it's a great place to -- we think the waterfront is going to be such an exciting place to live, there's going to be so much to look at. There's just going to be so much going on. I mean, in any great city in this country, there's a fantastic waterfront, and the liveliness that's going to go on down there. The views are going to be amazing in this building. I mean, truly, they're going to be amazing. The sunsets, I mean, we're there at nighttime and we're taking shots and we did a lot of studies for shadowing for 35 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. the neighborhoods. We really wanted to show that. And we're pinpoint-shadowed on the neighborhood, and that's why we worked with the neighborhood for close to six months, and everything that you see up there is a product of what they wanted. And we are actually establishing a liaison committee between us and them, which is unprecedented, where we're helping them pick somebody, an intermediary, so that they're always involved with us during the process. So if something happens that they are not happy with, they're going to be able to come to us directly. And also I'm the local guy, so they know that I'm not going anywhere and I'm here until the end. I think I used to be 6'2", but now I'm a little bit shorter from all the meetings. But I think we're getting there.
Thank you. 36 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. Thank you, Madam President.
Yes. Good morning, gentlemen. I just want to know, I'm just curious, are any of the gaming sites adjacent or near this property?
To the north about 2,500 feet is going -- with the proposed Sugar House, and then to the south of us about 2,500 feet is the Planet Hollywood proposed site. But just for the record, when I went after this originally, it was not -- there was no proposals or sites. It just happened.
Well, actually, to be honest with you, it could work either way. There's people that don't want to be around the congestion and there's people that don't want to be around all the gaming, and then there's other people that really do. I mean, Atlantic City is 37 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. a perfect example of that.
Well, at least in your testimony you mention you have 177 rooms for the hotel.
How many rooms or how many condos are you anticipating?
Well, we have 1,160 cars and the need to satisfy the complex is for 860. So we have approximately 300 cars in excess of what is actually needed.
And how high is this parking garage? 38 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC.
As Councilman DiCicco is reminding me, that is part of the negotiation also with the community as well. They really wanted to see something in excess of just what was needed.
Absolutely, because that seems to be a critical point --
-- in any of these developments, is the traffic. All right. Thank you, Madam President.
I know that fully well, because I live on Kenilworth Street. I moved in in 1990, and at that time, there wasn't much of an issue, but soon after that, it became a real issue. So it's critical.
Thank you. Councilwoman Brown, did you want to be recognized? 39 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC.
I did. Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, gentlemen. Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller raised my initial question on the who, where do you see capturing citizens who will indeed occupy this development and indeed make it profitable. I'm just curious about experience. But for experience, you would not be sitting at the table. So just give us a brief background on have you engaged in this type of development elsewhere in the City, elsewhere in the country, and is this a new first type model? Knowing that the green environment issue is new and a good thing, but separate from that, have you done other developments of this type of this scale?
Honestly, I'm a first-time developer on this, but 29 years I've been a steel contractor in the City of Philadelphia. I've worked on all the major projects in the City. Fourth 40 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. generation. Just grew up in the business, grew up working for a lot of developers, doing all their things and help them get on the board and all the way back to the early '80s and all the warehouse conversions and everything. It was just an opportunity that came up and we really felt that there was a tremendous steel proponent in this. We're steel people, so we see this as a steel project for us. And it's got a view of the bridge. And back in the early days when my grandfather came over from the old country, all those guys did a little term on the bridge, you know, doing their apprenticeships and stuff. So it's kind of like a little bit of --
Yeah, it really is. And there's a lot of people that gave their lives for all that stuff that we want to really -- and Bridgman's View is a tribute to the International Iron 41 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. Workers, because it's just been something that a lot of people done a lot of good things for.
If I may, Councilwoman, we've been in practice for years as Agoos/Lovera Architects and 8 we've done very significant projects in 9 the City and other places, including the 10 Linc. I see the place a little bit 11 quieter than in those days, but I have to 12 say, I mean, that typically as a firm, we 13 don't take on a lot of the developers as 14 clients, and the reason is that it's a 15 tougher market to work in. But with Marc 16 and Ryan and -- but I have to say that 17 these three guys have been outstanding, 18 not only in terms of payments to the firm 19 for our services, which now are six 20 months and going and amounting to a 21 significant amount of dollars, but the 22 fact is also that they have a spirit, 23 they have a vision for doing something that is exceptional, and they told us that from day one, and to basically 42 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. support that. Our test, Ted's and mine, was to see who they would allow us to have on the team, because when you have quality consultants, you got to pay for that service. And when we got Arup on board and PHY -- and PHY is the mechanical consultant, MEP, mechanical/electrical/plumbing consultant for the Comcast Center -- we knew that they were not only for real, but they were also interested in following up with the level of quality that we would expect. So they've been tremendous in that sense. They're not going to flip the site over. And we're really looking forward to just not only a great experience for the firm, but also a project that is going to continue to put Philadelphia on the map, because this is going to be iconic architecture, something that -- you know when you look at Manhattan from Brooklyn and you see these great buildings, just there's your 43 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. plot. That's the kind of thing that you'll see here.
There were two other real tests with this. One is the decision to acquire the adjacent property to move the parking structure there. Putting it, as Jorge has said before, as part of the base of this building really killed it. It made the pedestrian experience very, very difficult, and it was something that the community and we were concerned about that made a significant investment to acquire that. The other is that typically a building like this, you see a lot of rectangular boxes, the very generic, they look pretty much the same. It was the decision very early on to give this a sculptural quality. What we've done is essentially created a sinuous wall that rose the profile particularly as it faces Northern Liberties. It presents a very narrow profile, which results in a very thin shadow, to the extent that any are 44 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. cast across 95. Those decisions from the beginning are not the typical developer decisions that are made, and it's something that will attribute to their approach to this project.
Just one more thing. When they first came to us, they said, We want a million 400,000 square feet of space and no less than 1 million square feet of net sellable. When we actually did our first broad-brush strokes on paper, we were concerned. Ted and I were concerned, because all we could come up with was 750,000 square feet net sellable. And we figure, you know what, if we lose it, we lose it. We're not going to do anything differently. And they actually embraced it. After we explained the whole thing, they totally embraced it, and to us, that was another test that we were kind of running to just see if they were interested in this quality of 45 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. architecture that they had spoken about.
Thank you for your testimony. My only other observation is, as a Councilperson who is not a district Councilperson, I do observe how keenly district Councilpersons are involved in these kind of often times fragile development projects getting to this stage. So to hear that considerable discussion, conversation and negotiations happened around parking, therein accommodating the citizens who are already there, been there paying their taxes and aren't going any place, I think is extremely important. Parking typically ends up being the glitch pin or the achilles heel in trying to overcome brain projects like this to bear.
We basically made the neighborhood -- we brought them into the developers' process. A lot of people say we're crazy, you're getting them included. And really from the beginning 46 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. the Councilman said, Go right to the neighborhood. You got to get the neighborhood, and that's what we did. And we stayed with the neighborhood and we held their hand, and they were very voiceful with us.
And they should be. And we reacted to them. And when we finally went to our final with them, they were very supportive and they understood that they finally have somebody -- I don't know. Maybe not. But I feel like they finally have somebody that's really listening to them, and we're trying to do what they need done.
And thus it's possible, when the developers work with the district Councilperson, who work with the community at the door, not when you're halfway down the track, but at the door, you end up with where you are today. 47 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam President. I'll be brief. First of all, Councilman DiCicco I think has done again a tremendous job in taking a lot of heat and bringing the community in and actually -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Heat is good for you.
Heat is good for you. All these projects, whether it's casino projects or whether it's development projects, they're all controversial. Everybody is afraid of the future, everybody is afraid of 48 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. change. And it would have been easy for him to put his arms across his chest and say, Not in my backyard, and been a demigod for the residents and have less political opposition and complaints from some of his political opponents. So I know all the hard work actually created and helped mold what we're looking at now. From what we're looking at now, I just want to compliment you. The thing that jumps out at me is that this is an exclusive residence, it's retail, but what you've done in the design makes it almost a public space. It's an open public space in many ways where people feel they're not -- it's not a gated community. It's not keeping them from the river. It's not keeping them from traversing and having pedestrian experience and being on the rooftop in the green space. I'm telling you, when I see it, it looks like some flyovers of Miami or some of the flyovers of New York 49 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. and Chicago. And I've consistently said that great cities need tall buildings, and if you can do a tall building and make it as inviting to the public as that, I think you've hit a home run.
-- Councilman Kenney, Councilman DiCicco was great in the fact also that he did not -- he actually told us we have to go to the community. I mean, if they give the support and all that, then I would be willing to do what I have to do, and for that, we really commend him. The other thing also that we really had not spoken about is the fact that we -- one of the first things we did was actually grab a hold of the master plan or the neighbor's plan that Northern Liberties had already done. This is not the vision on Delaware Avenue, but that 50 6/6/06 - RULES - BILL 060290, ETC. plan talked about no gated communities, ease of access to the waterfront, allow the views to the waterfront for the community. There's all of these different items that one of the first things we did was basically an analysis of that, and out of that rose what you see before you.
And their desire for green space. That was another key component.
Thank you very much. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Seeing none, gentlemen, thank you very much. The proposal looks absolutely magnificent and I certainly want to wish you well.
Do we have anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)