civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - May 7, 2025

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)May 7, 20255h 57m

So they will use this entry to do consulting.

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There will be no like like signage or anything like that posted, but just that they're able to actually list it as their business address.

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So now, so I can scroll down.

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So here's the inside of the property.

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The property is already renovated because it's livable.

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So there's going to be no actual renovations.

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So the office space, they already work from the area.

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It's just to legalize that they can work from home inside the unit.

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We had the RCO meeting.

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We got the letter of support from the community.

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There are no outstanding taxes.

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So, Devin, one more thing here.

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So, above where the office will be, you're saying it's a single-family home?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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So, yeah, so it's currently occupied now, yes.

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Could you show us the office space?

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i don't have any pictures of the office space because it's like currently occupied but

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um my client can testify i'm stating that there will be no renovations it's just like

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a desk and stuff down there

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um again we met with the community we were able to get the we have a letter of support from the

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community. They have no outstanding tax or taxes or violations or anything on the property. It's

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pretty well kept. And aside from that, that's it. We're just asking for your support and

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changing so they can run their business from home legally. And I can call the trustee who

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should be on the Zoom to adopt my statements. Her name is Fatima, if you're able to see her.

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why don't we bring her on i'm here i could you please state your name and spell for the

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stenographer yes fatima abdullah f-a-t-i-m-a-h uh last name abdullah a-b-d-u-l-l-a-h

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you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

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yes i do please proceed counsel oh fatima have you heard my statements yes okay do you adopt

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my statements and testimony yes okay thank you just a quick question Devin is is uh the people

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who are going to live in their house going to run the business yes okay questions from the board but

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Devin this is kind of hard not even to see the office you know I mean like you you you're looking

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to put an office there,

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but we don't know

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what the office even looks like.

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Well, I guess, Commissioner,

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they currently work from home,

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so it is like occupied.

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There will be no renovations.

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So we were able to express

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the community that

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they're not going to do

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any renovations.

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There'll be no permits

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or anything like that.

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Let me get some questions

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from the rest of the board.

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Questions from the board.

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You said they currently

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work from home.

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So is this now going to be

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a separate commercial office space?

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so they're just going to use that as their actual office so if they work from home they're

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home they're working and i guess they also lease a space but they want to cancel their lease and

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just use this as their only office location no i understand that but like is there still going to

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be residential use yes yes yes yes above the office space so they're converting the first

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floor but you're saying no construction well it's not it's not yes pardon me i'm sorry one more time

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i didn't say anything used no it's actually the basement am i correct

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uh it's not necessarily a basement because it's above ground yeah i agree i agree yeah it's the

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yeah but it's the first level of the structure right yes yes yes and and you're saying that

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they're already using it as an office no they're not using that as an office i'm saying if they

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work from home they use the upstairs residential portion but they have an actual office space the

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goal would be to cancel the office space they have outside of their home and to just use this space

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to move the space that's already in the property they currently own yes because it has the capacity

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to do yes got it okay what's the business

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is this i think this may be um well fatima you're on the call

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so you'll be seeing a therapist you'll be seeing clients

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So you'll be seeing a therapist, you'll be seeing clients.

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I'm not the therapist.

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Okay.

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The therapist be seeing clients?

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Yes.

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How many clients will the therapist be seeing at the same, at a time?

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Oh, one at a time.

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Like how many people, I'm sorry, how many clinicians will be in the office at a time?

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Oh, one clinician.

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The one clinician, and I'm assuming like one to two clients, are they all scheduled, pre-scheduled appointments?

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I am not certain of that. And she currently services clients at another location.

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So I'm assuming whatever her client load, her personal client load is there, she would bring to here.

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She just wouldn't be seeing them at that space or remotely. She would be seeing them in her physical space.

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but it's one-to-one therapy sessions.

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It's not like group sessions or anything like that.

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But I don't know her current load.

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So the owner is not doing this.

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You'll be leasing the space to a therapist.

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The trust.

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The trust will be leasing the space to the therapist?

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Because you said the owner will be living in it.

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The owner currently lives there.

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Correct.

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The property is owned by a trust.

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The owner currently lives there,

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but she will now be using the space below it to do therapy.

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So she's the therapist. Yes. This is the trustee. So it's in a trust.

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Gotcha.

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Do we know what the sound attenuation is between the first and the second

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floors?

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Not offhand. No.

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And they're currently two completely separate legal units.

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Yes. No door.

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from the office space into the residential portion?

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They have separate entrances?

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Yes, there are separate entrances.

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So that picture that I was showing,

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I can bring it back up of the left side of property

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is where it is.

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Also, I do have a picture that I can add

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and at the end of the day

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of what the office space looks like.

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So I can, you can see like some of the drywall and stuff.

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That's it's like, it's just like open space pretty much.

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But that's helpful.

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That would be helpful, yes.

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One second.

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Hold on.

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While I pull it up, I guess, were there any other questions I can answer?

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I think the only other question I had is since you had no interior pictures, are all of the utilities legally separated?

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Yes.

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So basically, this is the one that we use as the actual office.

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So if you were to walk into that door, I'm sorry, can you see this?

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We see it.

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Okay.

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If you were to walk into the door from the outside and then go into where the office area, you would pass about a few feet and then into the office area, this is what it looks like.

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So as you see now, I mean, it's just space that's kind of like unused.

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The goal is just to use this area as the actual office.

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So it's already constructed.

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It's just not in use, I guess.

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So when she works from home, she's using her, like, room and stuff like that.

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Is there any windows?

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From the angle you have, it is very hard to figure out what part of the building this is and how this relates to any major entrance.

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So this is across from the major entrance when you walk in.

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The side entrance.

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So not the main entrance.

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This is the side entrance.

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The main entrance up top is residential.

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So that part is not, I guess, that's not what the refuser is related to.

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is it's the side entrance that we're going to use for the office space do you know how many rooms

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are on the in that commercial space that come if i enter through the side door how many different

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rooms are there on that level and does it have a separate bathroom or a kitchenette like what what

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are what's the setup or the layout there's no kitchen we don't have any photos of it it's the

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problem so there's there is no uh there's no kitchenette there's a bathroom so it's never

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it was used as a residential there's a bathroom now you can have a kitchenette not kitchen is

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not a kitchenette so most offices do have a kitchenette here here's here's the thing devon

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we we have to see what that first floor looks like you have to have photos of the whole first

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floor and i think we're going to have to do this as a result of hearing okay i mean and and i

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And I notice you, the next case, is that similar?

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notice you the next case is that similar the

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The trust owns the next case that we're going to hear to?

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Yes.

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That's 809 North 63rd, right?

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So this case that you have here, this is going to have to be a resumptive hearing.

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And you're going to have to come back with some photos and drawings to at least let us know what it looks like.

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Okay.

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And I and I appreciate the last photo you showed, but all you do is you see a door open and you can't tell where it is or anything like that.

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So what I want you to do, it's going to be a resumptive hearing and you're going to have to come back with photos and the drawing of how it looks and then really show how it's not connected to upstairs or how it's connected or whatever.

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OK. OK, Commissioner, would it be possible to request a quick date?

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i don't i don't know that i can give you a quick date what what i'm going to do is i'm going to

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give you the date that we have listed that we have coming you can contact the office to see

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if it's possible to do it another time so here's where we are mi2024-007-407-881

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winwood road this is going to be a resumptive hearing and the date that we're showing is

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8-19-25. You can call the office to see if it's

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possible. We can do that another time, okay? Okay.

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Now, hold on. So the next, explain to me before we even get

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into it, what's the next case? It's pretty much

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same? It's similar. So I'll get additional pictures of the office

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space and could I just request the same date for the two spaces? So what you're

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saying, you don't have photos for the second one? I have minimum. I don't have drawings for it,

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just minimum. I didn't get drawings for it because there'd be no renovations.

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All right. So, all right. So, okay.

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So that number nine is MI 2024 007 414 809 North 63rd street.

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That'll be a resumptive hearing on 8 19 25.

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If you can call the office at nine 30,

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if you can call the office and find a different date, that's fine,

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but that's where we are now.

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And you know what you're going to need when you come back in.

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And if you have any questions at all, call the office,

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they'll help okay all right thank you all right thank both you all right number 12

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mi 2024 007 426 2813 north 2nd street henry clinton is the attorney

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we do not have at this point uh an rco letter but there was uh there was a meeting was held

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April 30th by the 7th Ward RCO.

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Yeah, they will be coming back in as a

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panelist.

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Morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the board.

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Mr. Clinton, you've already been sworn, just for the record, could you state your name?

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Sure, Henry Clinton. All right, and could you identify

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your client, the relationship to the property? Sure, my client is John Downing,

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D-O-W-N-I-N-G

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and his wife Judith

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and one or both are on the call.

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Our Vice Chair has a few questions.

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Good morning, Counsel. Do you agree to weigh the reading

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of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?

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I do.

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Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits

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that's needed to proceed with this case

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five days in advance of this hearing?

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Yes, we have.

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Thank you, Counsel. Please proceed

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and share your screen.

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Thank you, Ms. Sheehan.

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