ZBA Hearing - August 3, 2021

And Tanya, Tanya and Jason, someone will let us know when to go.

Chair, we have about 75 attendees present today.

You can proceed as you wish.

Okay.

Thank you.

Good morning, everyone.

My name is Frank DiCicco. I'm the chair of the Zoning Board of Adjustment.

I'll be participating in today's hearing along with our board secretary, Mr. Confessor Plaza, and board members, Mr. Thomas Holloman and Mr. James Snell.

Board Administrator, Jason Hand, and board attorney, Ms. Sharon Saleta, are also in attendance, as is our zoning board administrator, Ms. Tanya Sunkett.

For those of you who haven't yet participated in one of our virtual hearings, I'll go through some of the basics of what you can expect.

First, we will be administering oaths to individual participants prior to their testimony.

Second, we'd like to advise everyone that this proceeding is being recorded and that by participating, you acknowledge your agreement to be recorded and that the recording will be made available to the public on the web or otherwise.

Third, for anyone participating by phone, if you wish to testify, you must raise your hand by hitting star nine and then star six to unmute yourself. I'll repeat.

For anyone participating by phone, if you wish to testify, you must raise your hand by hitting star nine and then star six to unmute yourself.

Finally, to enter an appearance statement, call Google 267-270-5548 and leave your email address and the address of the property at issue.

I'll repeat that.

To enter an appearance statement, call Google 267-270-5548 and leave your email address and the address of the property at issue.

I would also like to remind everyone, please do not attempt to testify in the chat. Any comments or questions should be directed to Mr. Hand, our board administrator.

Having said that, I will read off on the 930 list. Item number two, MI 2021-000587, 1633 West Huntington Street. This case has been requested to be continued both by the applicant and the RCO.

I would ask if anyone objects to that continuance to please raise your hand.

If you object to that continuance, please raise your hand.

I'll answer this time, Mr. Chair.

Thank you.

I will now ask if anyone would like to request a continuance or withdrawal on the 930 list.

A continuance or withdrawal request on the 930 list, please raise your hand at this time.

Mr. Chair, an individual named Dakaria Heru has their hand raised.

I will allow them to speak at this time.

Please identify yourself for the record.

Spell your full name.

Hi.

This is Tina Marie Russell.

t-i-n-a-m-a-r-i-e-r-u-s-s-e-l-l

you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

i did please proceed i just had a question i'm sorry i just

logged in and i wasn't sure what um property you was talking about i wanted

to be clear to you as to what where we are

1633 west huntington right we're requesting uh continuance

and then the owner said that he would request

that's been made made on we put that on the record both the rco and the applicant requested

a continuance okay great we just jumped in i'm sorry chair if i could make an announcement

yes please um if you join late or you're uncertain about cases please ask a question in the q a we

We have a seriously long docket list, and we cannot have too many interruptions.

have a seriously long docket list and we cannot have too many interruptions thank you

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you.

I got it.

Thank you.

And I'd also like to make a note for record that we would like to be informed prior to

be consulted on the date of the continuance.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else requesting a continuance or withdrawal at this time, please raise your hand.

Sir, Ms. Hillary Emerson has her hand raised.

i will allow her to speak at this time you miss emerson please identify yourself and i'll swear

you in good morning mr chair hillary emerson on behalf of councilwoman sherelle parker

where for him to tell the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth i do um i'm here um on

case uh sorry i'm not sure where it is on the list but it's 7901 gilbert street um sorry

that's number nine on our list number nine I wanted I didn't know if the applicant was present

um so the applicant had previously asked for a continuance for this case because

she needed an amended refusal um and I know she got the letter from the board and it was submitted

to L&I but I don't know if she got the refusal yet and I reached out to her last week to ask

if she'd received it and would be asking for another continuance and did not receive a response

so i just wanted to see if she was here um and we would be fine with another continuance because

we know she has taken steps to get the amended refusal but i just thank you i'm going to ask

did we ever receive the exhibits sharing um we did not probably for that reason though she did

request the continuance of the last hearing in order to get the amended refusal

all right so um is this the shauna smith correct yeah that's the applicant i don't know if she's

here she didn't respond to my last email is miss smith here for 90 7901 gilbert street if so please

raise your hand. Chair since she has gone through the process of obtaining a letter and getting an

amended or tried to get an amended refusal perhaps one more continuance. I just want to

know if she was on but okay having said that number nine on our list mi 2021 that's 000401

7901 gilbert street is continued any other requests for continuing thank you

any other requests yes this is tanya again may i ask that be it must be heard

Thank you. MI 2021-000401-7901 Gilbert Street is continued must be heard. Thank you.

Any other requests, continuances or withdrawals on the 930 list?

I see no further hands, Mr. Chair.

And Sharon, just to make sure, and or Tanya, we're going to do the list as is numbered, right? One through, and then do 10 and 11 as the add-on.

Yes, and the order they are.

Okay, just want to double check and make sure we're doing it that way.

Thank you, Tanya.

Okay, thank you. Number one on our list, MI 2020-002-408, 1518 West Tioga Street.

There's a letter of support from the Upper North Neighbors Association.

Anyone here for 1518 West Tioga?

I see no hands at this time for that one, Mr. Chair.

The attorney is Shoshana Bricklin.

Is she here?

I'll see if she's here.

I see no one going by that name.

All right.

MI 2020-002-408.

1518 West Tioga is continued.

Go to number three, MI 2020-000120, 1933 Mountain Street.

Mr. Mobahill is the attorney on record.

Mr. Movahill is the attorney on record.

There's a letter of support with provisors from Point Breeze CDC.

There's a letter of support.

I'm sorry, Chair.

This is Tanya again.

May I please make a request that the case number one be a must-be-heard since 2020?

Okay.

MI 2020-002-408-1518 West Tioga is continued must-be-heard.

Thank you.

Mr. Mulvihill, good morning. Please identify yourselves by your name and I'll swear you in.

Good morning, Chairman, members of the board. Leo Mulvihill, that's M as in Michael, UL, V as in Victor, I-H-I-L-L. 315 Green Street, first floor, Philadelphia, 19123.

You swear a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

I do.

Thank you. Please proceed.

Mr. Mulvihill, you agree to waive the reading of its refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?

i do have you emailed an exhibit packet with the required documents proof of ownership proof of

tax compliance copy of the refusal or referral photos and plans five days prior to this hearing

i have have you met with the rco and have a letter yes thank you please proceed yes good

morning members of the board i'm here today from 1933 mountain street for purpose of the record

i have the following documents as part of my packet the refusal appeal and project information

form at page one, area zoning maps at page six, deed page seven, commercial activity at 13, tax

clearance at 14, zoning notification letter, proof of mailing at 16, letter of support from the RCO at

19, photos of the property at 21, floor plans at 46. So members of the board, what we're here for

today are variances for minimum rear yard setback. We are asking for five feet versus nine, minimum

open area 70 versus 164.5 and a roof deck setback from the extreme rear building line

this area is zoned rsa5 we're proposing a single family dwelling in this district

it's a three-story structure this is my client's deed

my client's commercial activity license

proof of tax compliance is present here showing that there's no outstanding taxes

owed on the property it's my zoning notification letter which was sent some time ago

including the refusal and the proof of mailing

attached here november 30 2020 is our letter of support from point breeze community development

corporation

showing that there was letter of support the provisos would remove an alley tree match

coordinates line as closely as possible and use a clear rail potentially by removing parapet for

the roof deck here are photos of the property right now this is it with the fence in front

of it the two story structures next here is the tree that was in discussion as part of the provisos

There are pictures of the most recent posting, and the block itself, which you can see is

a mix of two and three-story dwellings.

Here's the proposed plan, members of the board.

What we're seeking to do is have a three-story structure not to exceed 38 feet tall.

At our second story cornice line, what we're doing is trying to match as best as possible the height of the existing structures and have a mansard style that leads up to the third story.

The refusal that we received for the roof deck is this very small part to the rear by the roof deck access pilot house, only to the rear of the property, so we won't have anybody to the front of the property overlooking the street, which is generally what my understanding is this code provision is to prevent.

here's the interior floor plan the basement is essentially a rec room with a half bath

on the ground story we have living and dining with a kitchen to the rear we have stairs going

up to the second story where we have two bedrooms one in the front run to the rear bath in the

middle and we have the owner's suite on the third floor up to the front and then a large

bath to the rear roof deck itself this is the area where we are where we receive the refusal

for not having the extreme property lines have it pardon me this is the area where we have the

refusal for not setting the roof deck back but it's very small area and it's a de minimis infraction

of the code we largely keep within the spirit of the code with respect to the way that we have this

pilot house set up and the roof deck itself set up with respect to the property itself we are

very similar to existing property rear yard sizes we're not seeking

uh very similar to existing property rear yard sizes we're not seeking an overbuild on the

property the house itself is just around 2 000 square feet and with the support of the community

you would ask you vote to support this project members of the board and grant the variances

that we request my client i believe is not present today but i would make all these affirmations as a

member of the court so noted any questions from the board no no no anyone else would like to

testify in this case if so please raise your hand the chair albert little page has his hand raised

i will allow him to speak at this time good morning sir please identify yourself spell your

full name good morning chair my name is albert little page i'm the president of the plain breeze

Community Development Coalition. Albert, would you please spell your last name? L-I-T-T-L-E-P-A-G-A.

You swear to affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you,

sir. Please proceed. Okay, I just wanted to, I know we sent a letter of support, and I just

wanted to acknowledge that for the record, Chair, and that's the only statement I had.

Thank you. Again, there are notes here, and if I missed it, I apologize, Mr. Mulvihill. There

were provisos it had to do with removing a tree that's in an alleyway okay not enforceable okay

very good thank you um anyone else would like to testify please raise your hand

no further hand at this time sir thank you planning commission

good morning chair and members of the board this is aisha under with the philadelphia city planning

commission a y s e u n as in nancy v as in victor e r you swear for him to tell the truth the whole

truth nothing but the truth i do thank you please proceed this property is indicated for single

family residential use on the city plan and our adopted district plan recommends no change to the

existing residential zoning at this location. Given the undersized dimensions of the lot and

the proposed application closely matches its neighbors, Planning Commission recommends that

the requested variances be granted. Thank you very much. MI 2020-000120-1933 Mountain Street,

my vote is yes. Confessor Plaza, my vote is yes. James Snell, my vote is yes. Thomas Holloman,

my vote is yes thank you members of the board thank you item number four mi 2021 that's zero

zero zero five one one two zero four two east ontario street sharon do we have any exhibits

i do not have exhibits um i'm not i know that miss sunkett checked on another case but

but I don't believe we have exhibits.

We do have letters in opposition.

Is Reginald Mozil, N-O-Z-I-L available?

Mr. Chair, I have a call-in user with their hand raised.

I can allow them to speak at this time, if that is all right.

I'll do so right now.

Call-in user, please unmute yourself

and wait to be sworn in.

hello good morning please identify yourself spell your spell your full name and i'll swear you in

you know this is um tiffany green from consensual point please i wanted to speak on um 1933 mountain

street but you already taken the vote so uh that's the point i'll just send in a reconsideration

Thank you. Thank you. Again, 2042 East Ontario.

Is this our first listing, Tanya?

Ontario? I'm not sure, Chair. I can look, but for the record, we examined the RCO ZBA email box

and we did not receive any exhibits for this property.

This is Sharon. I did check all of my prior case summaries and couldn't find any record of it having been listed before.

All right. Unless it's been, if it has been continued, we'll

Chair, my recommendation would be a continuance.

i'm sorry this is tanya yeah i got it thanks tanya mi 2021-000511

2042 east and ontario's continued must be heard

number five on our list is a resumption hearing mi 2020-003380 230-36 vine street

number five on our list is a resumption hearing am i

there's a letter of opposition from the rco and councilman swilla as we most people know this

as a continuation of the resumption hearing we had a lot of testimony at the first round

will call on the applicant's attorney, Mr. Matteoni.

And I believe there was a red neighbor

who lived across the street.

I can't remember his name.

I apologize.

Who was the last person to testify?

Excuse me, Chair, this is Sharon.

If we could call the other attorneys

in order to have them promoted.

In addition to those I had listed on the summaries,

Jennifer Bizzidlow is also representing.

Jim Moss.

I'm sorry. Mr. and Mr. Anastasia have been promoted.

There's also Mr. Harry Cook, Mr. Daniel McElhatton, and Mr. Philip Yampolsky.

Y-A-M-P-O-L-S-K-Y.

Mr. Cook won't be joining us today, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Cook will not be joining us.

Mr. Gerald Moss has his hand raised.

Mr. Moss, Mr. McElhantin is on.

Is it Mr. Yampolsky?

Am I pronouncing that correctly?

Y-A-N-P-O-L-S-K-Y?

That's correct, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Mossky.

Why don't, let me do this.

Let's start with Mr. Matione.

I'll swear everybody in, okay?

So, Mr. Mattione, please identify yourself, and I swear you in.

Sure.

Michael Mattione, M-A-T-T-I-O-N-I.

We're from the tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

I do.

Thank you.

Next on my list is Mr. Moss, Jim Moss.

And I tried to promote Mr. Moff, and he declined.

if you're available for this hearing please raise your hand and accept the promotion

we could also ask mr yanplofsky who is in the audience and um miss bazidlow to raise their hands

i'm already promoted this is jennifer is it blue

please spell your full name i'll swear you win uh me yes okay uh jennifer basidlow b as in boy

a as in apple z as in zebra y d as in david l as in larry o as in oscar 4500 worst street

suite d202 philadelphia pennsylvania 19124 you swear a firm to tell the truth the whole truth

nothing but the truth. Yes. Thank you. Mr. McElhatton. Good morning, Your Honor. Daniel

McElhatton, MC, capital E-L-H-A-T-T-O-N, 2000 Market Street, Suite 1400, Philadelphia, 19103.

Swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. I do, sir. Thank you. Mr.

Anastasio. Good morning, Mr. Chairman. Vern Anastasio, A-N-A-S-T-A-S-I-O, 1315 Walnut Street,

Philadelphia, 19107. We're from the tell truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. Yes,

I do. Thank you. Mr. Jampolsky, please spell your name and I'll swear you in.

I'm muted. You're muted, sir.

Mr. Yampolsky, you need to unmute.

There you go.

There you go.

Thank you.

Philip Yampolsky, Y-A-M-P-O-L-S-K-Y, 936 County Line Road, Greenwater, Pennsylvania, 19010.

And if you can speak up a little louder or increase the volume, that would be helpful going forward.

Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

I do.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else who needs to be?

I know Mr. Moss.

He's got his hand up and he's muted.

Mr. Moss, good morning.

Yes, can I be heard?

Yes, please spell your full name and I'll swear you in.

Gerald Moss, J-E-R-R-O-L-D-M-O-S-S.

You swear if I'm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

I do, sir. Thank you. Did I leave any attorney out? Are there any other attorneys involved in

I do, sir.

Thank you.

did I leave any

this case? If so, please raise your hand. All right. Vern, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong,

you may have, your witness may have been the last witness we were taking testimony from.

That's right, Mr. Chairman. We wrapped up with Gary Vernick, and I have three more witnesses to call briefly.

And I believe Mr. Vernick said that he was not done with his testimony.

I believe he said that also. And I would ask everyone who's on this call.

Thank you.

It is obvious with the number of attorneys we have that this could be a prolonged case.

We would ask that when you testify, please do not continue to repeat what has already been testified to.

We would appreciate that very, very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And with that, I would like to call Mr. Vernick back to the stand.

Mr. Vernick has been allowed to speak.

Am I on?

Yes, sir.

Please identify yourself, and I'll swear you in.

Gary Vernick, V-E-R-N-I-C-K, 215 Vine Street, Philadelphia on 9106.

Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

I do.

Thank you, Mr. Vernick. Please proceed.

Thank you.

Mr. Vernick, can you pick up where we left off in explaining to the board why you believe that this appeal should not be granted

and that it's an overreach in asking as it impacts negatively you as an immediate neighbor?

I was telling the board prior to the continuance that

we're one of the oldest, if not the oldest neighborhood in the city. Our infrastructure

is similarly extremely old. I have two buildings within 50 feet of the Painted Bride. Both

buildings require pressure pumps in the basement in order to get water up to the third and

fourth floor. I'm not a water engineer or a utility person, but I understand that it's

caused by the infrastructure and its age and its deteriorated condition. Likewise, I built a new

house on the 200 block of Vine 12 years ago, and the gas company could not give me enough pressure

to put in a tankless water heater. Whether that has changed since then, I can't tell you. But that

was the story 12 years ago and as far as I know our our guests and its its lines in our street

have not been changed so I put that out because here we have 75 units I'm fairly sure that they're

going to be okay because their connections will be large enough to supply all of their needs

but I question what the effect is on the rest of the neighbors by them taking what they need

for 75 units. The point being that the massing and the size and the number of 75 units

is simply too much for this neighborhood. The other thing I was telling you before we left

off is I need to set the stage for this particular block. And I know the chairman told us that

he drove down it and he looked around personally a month or so ago.

But New Street is one lane of travel. New Street runs to the south of the Painted Bride building.

Bodine Street is a little alley, and that is basically zero lanes of travel. You're lucky

if you get a subcompact down it, let alone a truck, which leaves Vine Street. The 200 block

of Vine Street is a block and a half from the I-95 off-ramp of Callahill Street. And so

when you put 75 units on this block, and I understand that there are 12 parking spaces

within the building because of some kind of zip car loophole that that is in compliance

but that and I'm not even speaking about the people that live in the building and have cars

And I'm not even speaking about the people that live in the building and have cars that are going to be dumped on the neighborhood.

If he's legal with parking, he's legal, period.

But that there's a whole host of other people that will be coming upon this property and will have to access this building from movers at the middle or the end of the month to move in people in the beginning of the month.

And in a 75-foot unit building, I wouldn't be surprised that in the summer months that we don't see four or five trucks pull up at the end of the month and four or five trucks pull up at the beginning of the month.

Actually, Mr. Chairman, it's all speculation.

It is speculation.

I agree.

But it's highly likely that in a 75-unit building that this is what's going to happen.

People have to move in and people have to move out.

Mr. Vernick, wouldn't that be the same case if it was lesser units?

You're going to have people moving in and moving out.

Lesser units or lesser moves in and lesser moves out.

And even more so that the only place for them to do this, because there is no loading dock with an elevator that I see on the plans,

the only place for them to put these trucks is Vine Street.

which effectively will reduce Vine Street to a one-way street.

And let me tell you, in the morning, when the cars are coming off the I-95 ramp

and cutting through the neighborhood, you're going to have gridlock.

And there's no place else for them to put their trucks.

There's no place for the repair people, the plumbers, the electricians,

the people that service this building to put their trucks.

And as I was telling you last time, we all know that contractors put their trucks

as close to the building as possible, very simply because their tools, their equipment,

and their supplies have to be unloaded. So the question is, what happens to our street?

You're going to turn a two-way street into a one-way street, and then you're going to have

gridlock because of it. I now want to speak to this mosaic, which I've lived with for the last

30 years. And as far as I've seen and I've heard, this mosaic is the only reason that has been

advanced for the three requested variances. We all understand, and it's part of the record,

that the Historical Commission has ruled that neither the mosaic nor the building is historic.

And we all understand. That's relevant to the case, Mr. Chairman.

Yeah, Mr. Vernick, with all the respect, we went through this the last time.

you testified and I'm not dismissing that but rather than go over the same stuff any new

material we would appreciate any new comments so the painted bride the painted bride has put forth

testimony that's part of this record that a hundred percent of the northwest facade of the

mosaic is delaminated we're separating from the building Mr. Chairman the painted bride hasn't

testified in this case. Can I address this, Mr. Chairman? Mr. Mattione put in 265 pages of

documents which are all hearsay. If what I'm about to say is hearsay, I ask that his 265 pages be

stricken as hearsay as well. Okay, let's move on. If you can get to the point of your testimony,

that would be helpful so my point is that this mosaic is not in good shape

has been testified to by chairman that there's a condition report i mean

it is what it is he's not test he's not qualified to testify as to the condition of the mosaic

yeah and i again so you know uh i i was actually out there a week and a half ago i have probably

have nothing better to do with my life so i go visit the bride every now and then uh and i'm not

trying to make light of this but i was out there again and i don't know i mean that with the black

shroud that's over it um it's for me at least and you may have better knowledge before the shroud

was put on i could not determine whether there was any significant damage to the to the to the

building itself so again mr chair what i could observe i i didn't see that not saying it isn't

there but i just couldn't mr chair i think what but the witness is trying to communicate is that

mr anastasio thank you i think about my uh the witness is trying to communicate is that the

black the existence of the black shroud in and of itself uh is proof positive that the that the

uh is proof positive that the that the mosaic is in bad shape well that could be and it could

that Mosaic is in bad shape

well that

also be to protect it from being damaged i mean i i again i you know i wasn't there when the shroud

was put on so i don't know what the existing condition was prior to the shroud but it's it's

likely it could have been put up to protect it uh i i have a question and you got to refresh my

memory maybe mr manioni can do this uh mr vernic keeps talking about the 75 units if the buy is a

buy right is 65 feet correct 65 feet correct how many units would it be in that if it was a buy

right project you could have 75 units in a buy right project i mean that's what i'm saying so

the number of units isn't going to change based on the height of the building correct all right

okay well then why aren't we discussing a by right project well because you're gonna this

this application is to exceed the 65 foot height limit which was put in by a councilman who happened

to happen to be me at the time as a way in which to allow the community to be part of a process

because we didn't want some tall buildings in some areas of old city as opposed to others

and that was really the only reason i did the 65 foot it wasn't a magical number it was a number

we thought we can all live with we'd like to live with that number too i know i'm sure you do but

again that was again that was only put in place to allow the community to be part of that process

which we're doing now and that did not mean that it would never be able to exceed 65 feet

basically it was a project by project decision that would be made by the community and or the

zoning board of adjustment if they wanted to exceed that thank you mr chairman mr vernick

anything else to add yeah so let's all briefly please for the sake of time so i asked this board

that if this mosaic is so valuable and worthy of three variances why hasn't it been preserved

repaired or cleaned since it was put up 30 years ago why is it in the condition that it's in

let's just take it for granted that it's not in good shape but this following this argument

this developer is pretty smart guy he submitted an agreement to you which speaks for itself

but if you read that agreement he absolves himself of responsibility for the care preservation repair

and maintenance of this mosaic even though he owns it even though he bought it even though it

is the sole excuse for asking for three variances. That's the part of this whole thing I don't

understand. But let me tell you why. Because he now has to build an 85-foot building within the

perimeter of this thing and somehow brace it and protect it so that it's not further damaged. And

he doesn't want to take that risk. So he has pushed it off onto Magic Gardens via the agreement

which has been submitted to you, and that simply is a flaw in this whole process.

As to this mosaic, if you believe that we're dealing with a Michelangelo and the Sistine

Chapel, that's a one-of-a-kind type of building. There are 220 of these mosaics around this city,

all under the protection of the Magic Gardens and Emily Smith. This is not one of a kind.

They're all different, but they're all similar. And so I say to you, to destroy a neighborhood

because of this mosaic is simply not called for. We have to live here with this thing.

So let me leave you with this thought. Five other construction projects have been approved within 150 feet of the painted bride. Zero have needed or requested a variance, let alone three variances.

So the simple question is this. You either have to choose the law and the zoning code, or you have to follow some other standard. I submit to you, this mosaic is not the standard to follow and create precedent. Thank you.

Mr. Vernick, one quick follow-up question and then we'll let you go.

Are you aware since the last hearing of our efforts collectively in trying to negotiate a settlement with the applicant's attorney?

I am absolutely aware.

Any settlement discussions are just that, settlement discussions.

That's right, and we're not going to get into what we discussed.

I just want to clarify for the record, Mr. Vernick, is that correct?

clarify for the record uh mr vernick is that correct that uh uh you and the other clients

have directed uh your attorneys your your legal counsel to try and come up with a negotiated

settlement is that correct that is correct and i am aware that i don't know gary gary and then

also uh part of that settlement uh part of your direction to your counsel was to do what we could

to preserve some or part of the mosaic is that correct we've been trying to talk since the

beginning of this and we've just been met with the fears thank you very much what the preservation

of the uh mosaic part of that conversation would that have changed any of the variances that are

being requested the developers mr anastasia excuse me mr vernon mr anastasia say it again

mr chairman you said there's some there has been some conversation about possibly preserving some

portion of the of the bride is that correct of the building absolutely it's our position

that that can happen and the development would that change let me finish would that change

Gerald Moss to be.

I'm sorry, Sharon.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I was texting Tanya, but let me say it on the record.

If we could please promote Gerald Moss.

He has been asking.

He's been texting me that he is not promoted.

Okay.

We have tried on numerous occasions to promote him, and it's not letting us because he's

denying it.

So we'll try one more time.

We did swear him in.

He did speak, and we swore him in.

Yes, he's audible only.

Okay. All right. Before we go to Mr. Moore, just again, the discussions that you've been having

with the developer, I'm speaking to Mr. Anastasio, does that change anything in terms of the three

variances? And if so, what changes would that require? Mr. Chairman, to call them discussions

would be an over embellishment. We have proffered to come up with all sorts of scenarios. All we

want to do is have a conversation and we believe one of those options is the preservation of all

or some of that bride's skin and we can and they could still build but we can't even get to a

conversation we're just shut down immediately and I know that's not Michael's fault he's just

doing what his client tells him to do but we'd be willing to save you know we understand the

importance of uh for some people of that of skin of the bride uh we believe there are ways in which

we can preserve part of all or part of that bride skin and still have a development that

makes sense for the developer we can't even have that conversation unfortunately