COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON PARKS, RECREATION AND CULTURAL AFFAIRS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:20 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN, CHAIR COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN CURTIS JONES, JR. COUNCILWOMAN MARIA QUINONES-SANCHEZ BILL 080024 - An ordinance amending Chapter 9-200 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Commercial Activities on Streets," by adding a new section providing for the certification of tour guides... - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good morning. We want to say welcome to this Committee Council hearing on Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs. We do now have a quorum of Committee members here. Those in attendance are my Vice-Chair, Councilman Curtis Jones representing the 4th Councilmanic District, and veteran Councilmember Darrell Clarke to my immediate left. We will now ask our Clerk, Joe Meade, to please read the title of Bill 14 No. 080024.
An ordinance 16 amending Chapter 9-200 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled Commercial Activities on Streets," by adding a new section providing for the certification of tour guides in certain areas of the City, establishing requirements for such certification, and providing for penalties for violations, all under certain terms and conditions.
Let me 3 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 seize the moment and officially welcome the new Superintendent to our City for the National Park Service, United States Department of the Interior. Her name is Cynthia MacLeod. And we want you to stand so we could put the face with the name and say welcome to this hearing. (Ms. MacLeod stands.) (Applause.)
I will provide brief remarks by way of background on what has moved us to this juncture in this process. We introduced this bill last spring and I have had the privilege to work and meet with, on four separate occasions since last spring, with a host of members from the Philadelphia tourism and hospitality community representing both private and public tour guides here in our City, and the purpose of that was to in some ways follow an example set by Councilman Darrell Clarke when he introduced legislation around insurance 4 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 here in the City involving cars several years ago. So we created a task force so that we could have the benefit of the experience, intellect and knowledge of those who live and breathe this industry every single day. So we've met on four separate occasions since last spring, and delighted now to return once again for us to pass some action and movement on this piece of legislation. As many of you know, this idea came from Mr. Ron Avery, who sent a letter to my office, of which I was struck by as a former educator and someone who cares about facts. Ron Avery himself is an avid historian and tour operator. We fully developed an understanding of the tour guide industry with the introduction of the legislation in 2007. Actually, I required my staff to actually take a tour with Mr. Ron Avery last summer as a part of our staff 5 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 retreat, and then we asked my Legislative Director, Joe Meade, to have a tour with Centipede Tours, which is a walking tour. He also did a Duck bus tour over the summer to gain a stronger sense and understanding of how the business industry operates. Additionally, our work has included a couple of meetings with the Multi-Cultural Affairs Congress of the Philadelphia Visitors and Convention Bureau, where I made a presentation and again solicited feedback, comment and recommendations on how we needed to proceed. And then we actually submitted a survey to members of the industry so that we could have your candid feedback as well in this bill. So here we are again today for another hearing, and I believe it's an important juncture in the movement of this bill. Today I will offer an amendment to the legislation. This amendment will 6 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 grant the Administration, of which we will hear from, the authority to determine which agency will supervise or oversee tour guide certification. And a footnote on that, in our very first meeting where we had the Office of License and Inspection to attend, we universally or unanimously agreed that a place for this not to be is with the Office of L&I for a number of different reasons. So we put that on the record so that it's clear that we all agree the Department of L&I is not a place for this bill to be housed. We're also offering an amendment to implement the certification in two phases, which is an update from our last meeting that we had at the Independence Visitor Center. We're going to do this in two phases. The first phase will be to certify tour guides strictly for the Center City tourist area only, primarily resting in Councilman Frank DiCicco's area. So Phase I in many 7 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 ways will be a test phase for us to figure out where the bumps and wrinkles are, look to see where we need to tighten up, offer recommendations for Phase II. After months, there will be 7 a report back to City Council with 8 recommendations on how we proceed 9 citywide. These amendments came, again, 10 from the input and discussion from the 11 various work group meetings we've had 12 since last summer. 13 Let me just provide for the 14 record the other recommendations and 15 suggestions that will now be reflected in 16 the bill, again, as a result of 17 discussions over the past many months. 18 The application fee, $25, as 19 determined by those of us who have sat 20 for the last many meetings, test and 21 study materials will be prepared by the 22 City itself.
The administration of the 23 test would be conducted by the City. A 24 passing exam grade will be determined by the City. Since none of us are educators 8 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 by profession, we will rely on those in the designated City department to determine what that passing grade should be. Exemptions, which we have had a lot of discussion on, from exams for tour guides of companies having equivalent education programs or better. What does that mean? A number of the tour guide companies already have in place very comprehensive tour guide examinations. If they care to be exempt, then they have to submit that request in writing and, again, that City designated agency will make that determination. Certified guides will wear an official identification badge distributed by that designated City agency. Certification of tour guides will happen for two years, with continuing education requirements for recertification, again, based on discussions and input from industry representatives. So with that said, we will now 9 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 move to testimony and ask those who are offering testimony to please come forward. We would like to first ask Melanie Johnson, our City Representative, to please come forward and Greta Greenberger, City Hall Tour Director. )
Good morning. State your name for the record and please provide your testimony.
Melanie Johnson. Good morning, Councilwoman Reynolds Brown and members of the Committee on Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs. As you know, my name is Melanie Johnson and I am Philadelphia's City Representative. I am here today to provide testimony in support of Bill No. 080024, which is sponsored by Councilwoman Reynolds Brown 10 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 and provides for tour guide certification in Philadelphia. It is my understanding that an earlier version of this legislation was first considered during the past Council term. Since then, Councilwoman Reynolds Brown has worked diligently meeting with representatives from the tour operators, the tourism promotion community, City officials and various members of the public to discuss a new bill. Those meetings had the goal of helping the various tourism interests resolve certain terms and conditions of the program that raised concerns with the previous legislation. I applaud the Councilwoman's effort to bring the community together to work towards agreement and believe that the legislation before us today is the type of legislation needed to keep Philadelphia on par with other peer cities. Philadelphia is rich with 11 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 historic assets, and while there are other cities that compare equally with us in size or population, very few, if any, are Philadelphia's equal in historic events, people, places or objects. Formal tour guide certification now exists in many of our peer historic cities, including New York; Washington, DC; Savannah; Charleston and New Orleans. These programs are all operated by their municipal governments. As City Representative, I believe that branding, messaging and identity are some of the most important contributors to Philadelphia's image here and abroad. To the extent that we can help influence tour operators to deliver a uniform standard of information, certification will enhance the experience of visitors to Philadelphia and celebrate our diverse history, ensuring that the Philadelphia story is accurately told. I would ask that the Committee consider one important amendment. The 12 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 legislation currently proposes that the tour guide certification program locate in the Office of Arts and Culture. Because that office has yet to be created and also because the Administration would like more flexibility in finding the proper municipal home to ensure this legislation's successful implementation, I ask that you amend the legislation to allow the Administration greater discretion in determining how to most effectively manage the responsibilities created by this legislation. Thank you for the opportunity to testify in support of Bill No. 080024. I will be happy to answer any questions that you may have.
Any questions from members of the Committee? Let us welcome, please, Councilmember of this Committee, Maria Quinones-Sanchez. Councilman Curtis Jones.
Once again, 13 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 congratulations on your appointment.
It's been my attentive ear to hear the Mayor wanting to retell Philadelphia's story in a more positive way, and the unification of that story, at least all of us getting on the same page about it, I think is important. I was unaware that that kind of tourism thing did not come under the City Rep's Office at present. Could you explain why maybe historically that hasn't happened?
I don't think there has been any kind of regulation through the City of Philadelphia. That's just my understanding. I don't know if that's absolutely accurate, but I don't think there was anything, any program existed, to have a uniform certification program or any kind under any department in the City.
Have you 14 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 had an opportunity at all yet to speak with your counterparts in cities that currently have in place a tour guide certification program?
I actually would like to bring up Fritz, Fritz Smith, who actually did some research on that very subject.
Very well. Please, if you would approach the witness table. (Witness approached witness table.
State your name for the record. And let us publicly thank you for actually having the Philadelphia Visitors and Convention Bureau host one of our meetings where we actually had a chance to talk with or hear from a New York official who is already in the business of doing what 15 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 we're attempting to do here. State your name for the record, please.
Good morning. Fritz Smith, Vice-President of Tourism, Philadelphia Convention and Visitors Bureau.
Could you address what you know with regards to other cities, maybe New York, or if you would, comment on the City Representative's question.
Yes. As you know, Councilwoman, I did an analysis of the seven or eight cities in the United States that currently have tour guide certification of some kind. Those cities are Washington, DC; New York; New Orleans; Charleston, South Carolina; Savannah, Georgia; Williamsburg, and I'm probably missing one, but those are the main ones, and I found that in most cases they had gone through a process fairly similar to the one we're engaged in here, 16 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 and it was at sometimes contentious, but in most cases, I think that the end result was that the standards had been raised to some degree and in some cases the profession seems to have been elevated to some degree. There's a variety of testing processes. I mean, everything from New York where you can go in and take the test every single -- every day just as you would a driver's license test, to other cities where it's once every four months. The fees ranged from about $25 to $100. There was a recertification process in all cities that ranged from every two to five years. In some cases, like New Orleans, there was a community college where most -- it was not mandated that you had to take the certification course there, but most of the -- most people who wanted to get into the industry seemed to have taken that course and it seems to be strongly recommended. 17 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 Probably the most interesting case was New York where it is probably the city where there has been the longest existence of a test, but what they went through a few years ago is, they found out that the test had become very, very outdated. It was written in the early '60s and so you were testing people on things that in many cases no longer existed. So they needed to have an updated process. So I think that in any legislation that is envisioned -- or rather in the guidelines that whatever office this ends up in, it's imperative that there be some kind of a mechanism for updating the test and for having the involvement of the industry in devising the test.
Okay. Any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? Councilman Curtis Jones.
No? Okay, then. Well, we welcome the amendment. We will certainly make sure it is circulated amongst members of the Committee. Thank you both for your testimony.
If we could please ask Panel No. 2: Ron Avery, local tour guide and historian; William Moore, leadership at the Independence Visitor Center Corporation; Greg DeShields, Director of Industry Relations with the Temple University School of Tourism and Hospitality Management, and we've had up Fritz Smith. You're welcome to come back to the witness table if you have any other testimony. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Thank you, 19 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 gentlemen. If you could please begin, Mr. Ron Avery, offer your testimony.
I have no formal remarks, but I want to make a few points. I was on vacation in Europe, a brief vacation this summer. I was three days in Prague and three days in Budapest, and we had guides. It was a group tour. And I asked the guide in Budapest how much training she had and whether she was licensed, and she showed me a license that she carried and she said it was a full year, three nights a week in a university or some and then a written test and a practical test where she took a person around, who was the tester, on a bus and he'd talk and she would talk about whatever they were seeing. The Budapest guide -- that was the Budapest guide. The Prague guide said it was two years. I will tell you that it's two years to be an unpaid docent at the 20 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 Philadelphia Museum of Art, two years of training, and they don't get a penny, because they want the people that talk about art at the Art Museum to be experts. Right now anybody can be a guide in Philadelphia. Anybody walking the streets could be hired. There's no 10 qualifications whatsoever. Companies will claim they train their guides, but I have a list of 83 mistakes that I've heard or that have been passed on to me by people like Greta Greenberger, whose word I trust. Now, the only thing with this bill that I would be against would be allowing the tour companies to test their own employees. I don't think this is done in any -- there's all kinds of licenses this city gives out, the state gives out, and I don't know another example where they say a private company can test their own employees and get them certified. I could be wrong. Otherwise, 21 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 I'm glad to see the bill has moved along.
Thank you for your testimony. We'll get through the panel first and then we'll do the questions. Please.
Good morning, Councilwoman. My name is William Moore. I'm the CEO and President of the Independence Visitor Center. First of all, I would like to thank you, Councilwoman Reynolds Brown, for inviting me to participate in today's hearing on the amendment of Chapter 9-200 with the addition of Section 9-214, "Tours on the Public Right-of-Way in the Center City Tourist Area," which is Bill 19 No. 080024. I would also like to thank you, Councilwoman, for championing the causes that strengthen our City's tourism industry. I appreciate the opportunity to share the testimony with the Committee on Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs and all of you here this morning. 22 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 Let me just briefly say that I apologize for Greta Greenberger not being here. She's actually away. As you may know, the Independence Visitor Center Corporation operates the Philadelphia City Hall Visitors Center downstairs and the remarks that I have today will also reflect our operation of that building as well. As noted in my previous testimony, at the Independence Visitor Center we truly believe that one of the hallmarks of a visit to any historic city is a great tour. In my eyes, there is no 17 greater historic city in this country than ours. Our streets, our historic sites, our monuments, our museums and our diverse neighborhoods together present visitors with an exceptionally rich cultural experience unique to any other in the United States. For this reason, it is critical that those of us in the tourism and the 23 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 hospitality industries do everything possible to ensure that visitors receive an exciting, informative and accurate introduction to Philadelphia. Unfortunately, the informative and accurate part has been difficult to guarantee for some time now. For just as some of our City tour operators are truly outstanding with extremely knowledgeable guides, others fall short and have been heard to pad, confuse or in some cases fabricate historical facts. It is as if our extraordinary landmarks and history need any embellishment at all. The problem is that while some of our operators have a well-established reputation within our field, our visitors have a terrible time discerning the good guides from those less informed. Too many visitors may be gambling with satisfaction, and as a top tourist destination, we can't afford to have any visitor go home unhappy. Certifying tour operators is 24 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 hardly a new or untested concept. At least ten other American cities require testing and licensing guides. As Mr. Avery just pointed out, most European cities have required licensing for decades. It only makes sense that a city as visitor focused as Philadelphia is would enact similar provisions to increase visitor satisfaction. Since I last presented testimony on this bill, our economic outlook has changed quite a bit. While our industry has always been somewhat at the mercy of the soft economy, today our position is perhaps more vulnerable than it has been in years past. Gas and oil prices continue to spike, and with a recession looming heavily overhead, not many families are getting a jump on family vacation plans right now. Many cannot afford a weekend away. This is yet another reason for us to be focused on providing an exceptional visitor experience, not only 25 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 to visitors crossing state lines but to those right here in the tristate area. We need to operate under the assumption that each and every unsatisfied visitor, our customers, if you will, can potentially tarnish the image of our City. Too many unhappy customers and ultimately the whole industry gets hurt. As I mentioned last spring, Philadelphia does have many exceptional tour operators, but we would be naive to think that our reputation isn't vulnerable to the poor standing of others. Therefore, I see certification not hindering individual businesses at all, but quite to the contrary.
I think we'll find it strengthens the industry overall. This bill means more than better tours. It means visitors will be properly introduced to our spectacular city, all of its local gems and many of the hidden treasures. As we know from experience in 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 our Visitor Center, satisfied, happy visitors tend to stay longer. They spend more money, do more and see more, and best yet, they tend to come back and visit again. I believe at this point we would be hard pressed to find any argument which refutes that when we optimize the experience of our visitors, we all win. Thank you very much.
Thank you for your testimony. Mr. Gregory DeShields, Temple University. MR. DeSHIELDS: Good morning, and on behalf of Temple University School of Tourism and Hospitality Management, it is my pleasure to express our support of the bill to create tour guide licensing in Philadelphia. Temple University School of Tourism and Hospitality Management support and encourages Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown's 27 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 development of a tour guide licensing in Philadelphia. As the largest and most comprehensive school of tourism and hospitality management in the greater Philadelphia region, we feel it is important to academically authenticate the capacity of those who represent the history and nuances of Philadelphia. We endorse Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown Committee on Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs' initiative to license tour guides. The School of Tourism and Hospitality Management is prepared to contribute by conducting research; advising an assessment of academic content for accurate knowledge of subject matter; development of certificate or certification program with protocol to verify competency, including focus group feedback and analysis of existing validation programs; development of delivery system to expedite the process 28 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 by candidates via online or actual workshop format; assist securing knowledgeable and credible professionals to educate participants; and continuous review and evaluation of credentialing to ensure knowledge remains legitimate and valid. We feel our collaboration with similar tourism and educational institutions in Philadelphia will create a valuable and quality-oriented procedure which will benefit the residents and the tourists of Philadelphia. Thank you.
Thank you for your testimony. We have Councilman Curtis Jones.
How many people come to the City of Philadelphia for tourism purposes a year? And 29 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 approximates are truly acceptable.
Councilman, the best knowledge we have -- and some of these facts come from the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corporation -- we have about nine million overnight visitors that come to the City, about another million in that total 10 that would be probably for day trips. So 11 it's a fairly extensive list. The 12 Independence Visitor Center alone, we do 13 about two and a half million people a 14 year. In the National Park, in excess of 15 five million a year. So it's a pretty 16 widespread business just in that local 17 area. 18
To the best 19 of your knowledge, how many of them are 20 here for the first time? 21
In our surveys that 22 we do, well over half are coming for the 23 first time or have not been here for 24 perhaps more than ten years. Our City 25 has changed quite a bit in the last ten 30 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 years, thankfully for a much more positive way, and they see that when they come. So many of the visitors are truly getting their first impression when they visit here.
As a result of that experience, is there any way in your surveys to then say how many of them chose to come back to Philadelphia based on that experience? Do we keep that statistic in any way?
For our business we do for sort of self-preservation reasons to make sure staff is doing a good job. So I can only speak from that experience. Visitors who tend to come, use our services at the Visitor Center, take tours, tend to have a very positive experience and do want to go home and tell not only their friends and neighbors but also their family members that like to return, mainly because, if I could, because they have seen so much and they feel like they've left a lot of things 31 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 they've not been able to get done in the short time they had, which is often three to four days.
Thank you, Madam Chairman. What is the diversity of the types of groups that come to Philadelphia? And I mean ethnic diversity.
Again, I can only speak for what we see in the Visitor Center. Fritz from the Convention and Visitors Bureau and others from GPTMC may have a broader experience, but for us, the diversity of our visitation, the diversity of our audience is increasing. We're seeing, first of all, more worldwide participation with the economy. We're certainly seeing more Asian visitors than we've ever seen. We're 32 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 also seeing closer to home that certain ethnic groups are becoming more frequent visitors. Those would include African-Americans that are traveling more in groups and individuals, also Hispanic visitors who are searching for new and different places to go explore their heritage, as well as gay and lesbian travelers as well. So we're seeing lots of different kinds of groups, and we have to be prepared to deal with a diverse audience pretty much every day.
And as a follow-up to that, reflecting on one issue raised by members of the Multi-Cultural Affairs Congress, it's been their experience that the tour sites, the tour stops, have not been reflective of the rich diversity of our City. So in the development of tours, is there any consideration to making sure 33 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 that, some would say, the full story is told of our City's history?
I think, Councilwoman, that there's more we should do on that. I think that's a great question. I think several years back I'm sure you recall that Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corporation did a number of neighborhoods tours where they experimented with different tours, and these were trolley-based tours, but they had an educational component and a cultural experience that went along with those. Those were, in the most part, successful, but they were difficult to sustain financially. I think that as our business grows, tourism business at the end of the day is an economic engine, and as the various operators see opportunities that will benefit them, I think that we'll begin to see more neighborhood explorations and a broader diversity of tours, but I think it's something we 34 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 should continue to push for as well. MR. DeSHIELDS: I would also, though, add as a Board member of the Multi-Cultural Affairs Congress that there is a Cultural Heritage Committee that had established a certification or at least a format of a program for cultural tourism, multi-cultural tourism in Philadelphia, and prior to me joining Temple University, working with the Philadelphia OIC, we created a travel tourism course that was a collaboration of the academic curriculum within that particular program and the tour guide program that was established through the Multi-Cultural Affairs Congress. But that's been a pretty strong standing committee for quite some time, so there's a lot of content that could be extracted from that committee to help to develop a good content that would represent a multi-cultural representation.
I thank 35 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 you for that. Quick follow-up by Councilman Jones.
The rationale for my series of questions was to that end, and the question now becomes to what end do the tour guides in the City of Philadelphia come in contact with what good work you're doing and add that to their repertoire of information that is offered to visitors to the City of Philadelphia? MR. DeSHIELDS: Well, once again, through my involvement with the Philadelphia OIC and specifically the travel tourism course that was designed in order to help to create individuals that had specific knowledge from a multi-cultural perspective, that would be one vehicle. I think that the Cultural Heritage Committee has made the reach-out a number of times and has collaborated to some degree with GPTMC on some of their neighborhood tour programs that have been 36 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 established, especially as it kind of segued into the community and developed the walking tour. So it is available and I think it just needs to have a vehicle such as what you're suggesting to make it more consistent across the board.
I don't know who can answer this question. Maybe all of you or one of you. I've heard the term -- since I'm not extremely familiar with the subject matter, obviously being a life-long Philadelphian, I've seen and witnessed tours, tourism guides throughout the City of Philadelphia. We've thrown out terms like "standardized certification." Give me a sense of what 37 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 components of the actual job would be standardized under a set of guidelines? Is it the presentation? Is it the interpretation of the history of the City? Because I'm assuming that in certain parts of the City there may be the need to talk about the history of that particular portion of the City more so than other portions of the City. What exactly would be standardized under a certain set of guidelines and what level of flexibility would those individuals have as it related to their specific tours?
Ron Avery. You can't arrest somebody for saying something wrong. You can't fine them. Guides will say whatever they want to say. You're not going to put an inspector with every guide, are you? 38 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 There's no standardization, but they should be able to pass a test on basic facts. For instance, I asked a group of guides, What is the population of Philadelphia, and ten of them argued and nobody came up with the right answer. That should be on the test. I asked the group, What does the word "colonial" mean. Five or six did not know what the word "colonial" meant. They should know facts about Mother Bethel Church. They should know facts and be tested on it. They should know facts about Carpenters Hall, you know, wherever they go past, the Art Museum, the Rodin, certain basic facts.
Right. And you can't -- but they're going to say what they want. This is one of the arguments against certifying. They'll still say -- if they want to say it wrong, they'll say 39 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 it wrong, but I think the vast majority of guys have enough self-pride to want to be correct. So I think an educational program, a fact sheet to follow and then a test on those facts at least gives them the basics so they know that Betsy Ross did not sew half of the uniforms in the American Revolution, as one guide told me.
Councilman Clarke, that's a great question. I would hope that through the process of certification, a couple things happen. One is that, as Mr. Avery shared, we will get our basic facts correct, but I think it's also important to make sure that we're -- and this will be a test program as offered currently, but hopefully will roll out into a wider impact of this legislation. But it is important when we're in certain neighborhoods to know the qualify of life in that neighborhood, 40 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 to know about the diverse cultures, to know about the history. During the mini meetings that we held on this, we had Native Americans come, and they wanted to make sure their history is correct. We had African-Americans there. We had Hispanics. I mean, everybody wants to make sure their history is correct. What better source of information than to have those different groups help us learn to do a better job. Not all of us know all that information, so that would be terrific. I don't think it's easy to legislate being positive in how you do your job or how you deliver the message, but I do agree with Mr. Avery on a couple things. One is that our tour guides, by and large, are enthusiastic and want to do a good job. They love the business they're in. And I think by having the certification, it will help them have a better sense of pride to do that. 41 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 If this works as well as many other training classes, often time there's a by-product of that. You do take more pride and you do try to do a better job. You want to be the best certified guide you can do. And I think as a result of that, we will see some increased friendliness and a way of delivery that will be more positive than perhaps we've seen in the past. MR. DeSHIELDS: And I will also add -- once again, Greg DeShields from Temple University. I would add in terms of -- the distinction of certificate and certification really draws the assessment of who is really credentialed and recognized by some governing body with respect to their full scope of the knowledge of the subject matter. The certificate concept may be more just a completion, that they went through a process and they were able to finish it and they may have left with some aspects 42 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 of knowledge, where certification will really require them to meet the requirements of some governing body in terms of content that will require them to continuously maintain their knowledge base in a way that would help to establish a more standardized approach to the process. And through the content of that governing body, you could constantly then update the information to make sure that they're not necessarily working with outdated information.
Okay. Assuming -- and I'm prepared to support the Councilwoman's legislation. Assuming that the standards will be elevated to some degree, depending on how you ultimately craft this program, will the compensation for tour guides -- do you anticipate that the compensation for tour guides be reflected in that way; i.e., if you make me have to get a certain certification, am I going to make more money? 43 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 MR. DeSHIELDS: Well, I would certainly say from an academic perspective, acquiring the certification would certainly increase that person's market value. There's some recognized body that says you are competent and, therefore, I would feel that it should have some bearing in terms of what their value is.
Councilman, I would agree that from a public standpoint seeing a certified guide versus a non-certified guide, you're going to tend to take the tour that's certified. I think we're going to get a great not only real change in our certification process by doing this in real quality, but we're also going to get a great PR benefit, which will help drive business that will help these certified companies increase their business.
One last 44 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 question. Maybe the gentlemen from Temple. In terms of the standards/knowledge base of the individuals, given the fact that we have an extremely diverse population coming to the City, is there a minimal threshold in terms of a tour guide's ability to speak foreign languages, a simple hello, can I help you, things of that nature? Because I have to think that given the nature of the subject matter, there are a lot of people that come here that simply can't speak English. How do we handle that? MR. DeSHIELDS: I would say the best way to respond to that and from our perspective, it would be to do specific research to analyze what is the appropriate and the most efficient way to deliver any type of certification or the content of it. So we would work with the various -- we would suggest that some sort of focus group or research study be done within the various cultural groups in the City to determine what they would 45 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 feel would be most appropriate in terms of the knowledge base or the skill sets of that individual and then build it into it in that way.
Any other comments, observations, remarks witnesses want to offer?
Yeah. I would hope that guides that come with foreign groups that speak Japanese, for instance, German -- they often come with a leader that gives them the tour -- would be exempt from this bill. It would be ridiculous to try to make them take a Philadelphia test.
Thank you all very, very much for your testimony. Very much. If we could please invite up Fritz Smith of the Philadelphia 46 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 Convention and Visitors Bureau and Angela Val, GPTMC. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Councilman Curtis Jones raised a question around numbers, if you will, and I saw that you wanted to comment. State your name for the record and offer your remarks to that question.
My name is Angela Val from Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corporation. I don't have the exact numbers here in front of me, but I can definitely get those to you when I return to the office. But one of the numbers I do have, as of 2005 we had 27.5 million visitors to the Philadelphia region. We do break that down to see how many are visiting the counties versus Philadelphia. We also do track how many people are return visitors as opposed to first-time visitors, and also what 47 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 minorities are coming here to Philadelphia. We do not have those numbers for 2007 as of yet, but we do have them for 2006.
Thank you. Thank you, Councilwoman Reynolds Brown, for introducing this bill and thank you, Committee members, for the opportunity to testify today in favor of Bill No. 13 080024. My name is Angela Val and I am the President of Special Projects at the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corporation. I am here representing GPTMC and our President and CEO, Meryl Levitz, who unfortunately was unable to attend today's hearing. All of you know the importance of the tourism industry. Tourism is an economic engine for the City. In 2005, there were 27.5 million visitors generating 10.1 billion of economic impact, with six billion of that spent by 48 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 leisure tourists specifically. At GPTMC our job as tourism marketers is branding and promoting Philadelphia as a premiere destination. At the core of Philadelphia's brand is our history and the authentic experiences and unique sense of place that Philadelphia offers. Our history is our most valuable asset. Preserving that sense of authenticity and quality of experience is crucial. Many cities recognize this and have regulations like the one proposed in this bill, including Washington, DC; Charleston; Savannah and Williamsburg. In research conducted by GPTMC, survey after survey confirmed that history is one of the main reasons tourists offer for visiting Philadelphia. Our visitors enjoy a wide range of experiences, but it is our history that most often gets them here. Independence Mall is vastly different than it was ten years ago, 49 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 thanks to over 400 million in public and private investments that has gone into improving the visitor experience on the Mall, including the National Constitution Center, the Liberty Bell Center, Independence Visitor Center, Franklin Square, Once Upon a Nation and the President's House site. It is important that the investment not be undermined by inadequately trained tour guides who tell inaccurate information to our visitors. In 2006, there were 1.8 million visitors to the Liberty Bell. One-third of our visitors surveyed during the summer of 2006 reported that they took a guided tour during their stay. Together, these historical experiences and tours influence how satisfied people are with their trip to Philadelphia, how likely they are to tell positive stories to others about their trip and how likely visitors are to return. Ensuring that visitors receive historically accurate and truthful 50 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 information about our nation's history, our City's history, our historic sites and our neighborhoods is a necessary part of maintaining the authenticity and quality of the experience we offer. It reflects the value we place on our history and its fundamental importance to our City. If our visitors have a bad tour experience, if they feel they have been misled or misinformed, we have damaged the credibility of our destination and its most defining feature, our history. As we have learned from the archeological dig at the President's House site on Independence Mall, history is not static. New discoveries are constantly being made, reaffirming what we thought we knew. This is what makes history so compelling and engaging. Keeping current with those new developments, deepening our knowledge so that we are able to tell a more inclusive and accurate story is yet another 51 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 important reason for guide training and certification. In conclusion, GPTMC is fully in support of Bill No. 080024 and sees this as a necessary step to continue the strong momentum we have in growing the tourism industry in Philadelphia. Thank you.
Good morning, Chairwoman Reynolds Brown and members of the Committee. My name is Fritz Smith and I am the Vice-President of Tourism for the Philadelphia Convention and Visitors Bureau. On behalf of the nearly 1,000-member organizations of the Convention and Visitors Bureau who are involved in a daily basis in the hospitality business and whose livelihoods and bottom lines depend on a vibrant visitor economy and a first-class image of our City, I thank you for the 52 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 opportunity to provide testimony in support of Bill No. 080024. Madam Chairwoman, I would like to thank you for providing leadership in introducing this bill and for ensuring that its development and progress through the legislative process has been characterized by inclusiveness and listening to a diversity of opinions. Many of the organizations that will be affected by this bill are members of the Convention and Visitors Bureau, and we have a strong interest in their continued viability and capacity to compete for visitors within the increasingly competitive business of marketing and destination. As you know, I have investigated the circumstances surrounding tour guide certification in cities that both have it and do not have it. This research revealed that, for the most part, certification has raised the standards for what is expected of the 53 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 experience that tour guides provide a visitor. It has not proven to be a panacea for ensuring that this information is never given out -- misinformation, rather -- but there seems to be a consensus that the process sets a standard and raises the bar for performance. In some cities it seems to have elevated the status of the profession. As an organization that is deeply concerned with the image of the City, we think that there is a very real public relations value that can be attained by passing a bill that ensures that standards are met. It sends a signal that Philadelphia is a destination that cares about the visitor experience. This signal of quality is commensurate with the goals and aspirations of the many members of government at various levels, the private sector and the foundation sector in spending billions of dollars to revitalize the historic 54 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 district, to build the National Constitution Center, a world-class Convention Center and so many other tourism infrastructure anchors. To continue to draw people to these attractions and generate the expected return on investment, sending the signal that Philadelphia cares about the visitor and the perception they will take back to spread to their own network of friends, family and co-workers across the country, and even around the world, is important to the City's continued success. Thank you.
Thank you both for your testimony. Are there any questions for these witnesses? (No response.)
If you would, Angela, for the record, tell us the role and mission of GPTMC.
GPTMC advertises, promotes and markets to leisure tourists, 55 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 and we are hoping to generate vitality and economic benefit to our Philadelphia region.
Okay. And if one had to identify what clearly separates the role of GPTMC and the role of the Philadelphia Visitors and Convention Bureau, where is that line?
I would say that line is that the Convention and Visitors Bureau -- and, Fritz, please jump in -- deals primarily with groups and conventions, as well as tour buses, tour guides, and GPTMC is on the leisure traveler. So we're aiming for the person that's sitting in their kitchen with their kids trying to figure out what they want to do this summer or the upcoming weekend.
Many people, to add to that, many people think of the distinction between the two organizations is that one is a B to C organization, that it's a business to consumer, it's 56 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 marketing directly to the consumer via public relations, advertising, other marketing methods, and that our customer base at the Convention and Visitors Bureau is, for the most part, intermediaries, those who have the ability to make the decision about where to bring a convention or a meeting or a group tour or a sporting event.
Sure. That's very helpful. Okay. Any questions for these witnesses? (No response.)
If we could please invite up Linda Kramer of the Philadelphia Trolley Works; Michael Walsh, Centipede Tours; Viki Sand, the Executive Director of the Atwater Kent Museum; and Mark -- forgive me.
Thank you very much. Tour Operators of Philadelphia. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Good morning. We'll proceed with Linda Kramer with Philadelphia Trolley Works. State your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Linda Kramer. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of Philadelphia Trolley Works, the Big Bus Company and 76 Carriage Company, I would like to thank the members of City Council for the opportunity to speak about the pending legislation and regulations for tour guides. As a provider of sightseeing tours for over 30 years, our company has consistently favored sensible legislation that allows our industry to improve, yet remain economically viable in today's challenging economic climate. As 58 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 Philadelphia grows its tourism population, we are in agreement that as an industry we need to ensure that visitors receive a quality sightseeing experience. As with most legislation, the regulations themselves do not guarantee the goals they seek to accomplish. Those goals are only met with careful oversight and application of the legislation. Without an equitable and consistent oversight, the legislation can actually have the adverse effect. Reputable operators who make good-faith efforts to comply with both the spirit and letter of the law operate at a deficit to the fly-by-night and disreputable operators who continually flaunt the law. When there is a lack of oversight, these operators suffer no 22 penalty for their actions. This has been an ongoing issue in the carriage regulations. The end result is that companies that have a vested interest in 59 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 moving our industry forward are handcuffed both operationally and economically. It is our hope that the final tour guide legislation will address these issues. Specifically, we believe that it is essential that longstanding companies be given the opportunity to submit their training program and tour scripts to be certified as meeting the requirements for licensing. This will enable larger companies to meet the seasonal demands to hire and train staff for peak tourist times by testing and certifying their staff. A monthly exam schedule will effectively cripple our ability to hire and train the necessary staff for the peak time periods during the summer and holiday seasons. From an economic perspective, our staff fluctuates from 125 people during the winter months to over 200 during the peak tourism months. This increase is predominantly in our tour 60 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 staff because we are a seasonal operation due to weather and tourism here. PTW maintains tour scripts and continuously reviews and augments them for accuracy. Our management and supervisors ride and critique our guides for accuracy and customer service as an ongoing review. It is in our best interest to provide quality tours. We also hope that those in charge of regulatory compliance are chosen for their expertise as well as their impartiality to allow for fair and constructive dialogue regarding the many issues facing Philadelphia's growing tourism industry. Legislative oversight can only be successful if it is applied equitably to all operators regardless of their size and type of operation. In conclusion, as Philadelphia's oldest and largest tour and transportation operators, it is our hope that as a group we learn from the mistakes of the past well-meaning but 61 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 flawed legislation and work collectively to ensure that all visitors enjoy a quality tour on their visit to Philadelphia. Thank you for allowing me to speak before you.
You're certainly welcome. We'll hear testimony from everyone and then we'll open it up to questions. Please.
Good morning, Chairwoman Reynolds Brown and the ladies and gentlemen of the Committee. My name is Mark Beyerle, owner of Specialty Tours and Events located in Center City. I speak to you today not as a private local tour operator business in Philadelphia but as a spokesperson for the Tour Operators of Philadelphia, known as TOPS. TOPS members include eight tour operator companies in and around the greater Philadelphia area and also include five tour operator partner organizations. 62 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 These tour operator businesses and partner organizations meet ten times throughout the year to discuss various issues that affect the group tour industry in Philadelphia. The proposed tour guide certification has been a long-debated topic in our association. Our association was first formed to deal with issues such as bus drop-off and parking regulations in the historic district, and as a result of not being involved more fully, it took years for us to improve that legislation. We'd like to see this start on the right foot. TOPS would first like to recognize the work that Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown and the Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs Committee have put into this proposed legislation and to thank you for the opportunity to participate in the process all along. As you know, it's been arduous. The members of TOPS recognize 63 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 this proposed legislation as being well intended and fully support the goal of having quality guides present accurate information about the City of Philadelphia and our beloved sites, icons and attractions. Again, we recognize this as well-intended proposed legislation, but we feel that much additional work is still needed before we will have the intended and desired outcome, and for that reason, we do not see it ready to move out of Committee for the full Council. Examples of our concern are such questions and areas currently not dealt with in the proposed legislation, such as what do you do with out-of-area tour guides that are escorting groups and guiding groups that arrive from a tour bus from such places as New York City or Pittsburgh? Would we or could we realistically expect them to apply for and get a Philadelphia tour guide certification? We would think not. Yet, 64 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 the proposed legislation currently does not exempt out-of-area guides. Then again, how would some arbitrary geographical line be set for deciding this out-of-area factor? Would the decision to exempt guides coming from beyond a certain local mile radius, such as Pittsburgh and New York City, be any different than a guide coming from, say, Harrisburg or Cape May? Yet, would it again be totally different for a nearby guide from Cherry Hill or West Chester versus a guide from Philadelphia County address? Could possibly the volume a tourism guide gives be a deciding factor? For example, those who guide more than once per week or more than five times per month or more than ten times per year be the deciding factor versus some geographic boundary? Does where you live dictate your ability to be a quality and accurate guide? There are many retired guides 65 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 who only assist two to three times a year on peak days. Would they or should they be required to be certified? Another question, how do we define a guided tour versus an escorted tour? Many guides by virtue of their title simply move groups from Point A to Point B to Point C. They don't necessarily impart factual information. Most often they just shepherd their group to and from the guides that already are at the Liberty Bell, Independence Hall and Christ Church, for example, guides that are uncertified. Do you certify volunteer tour guides, those who guide for no personal compensation, yet guide for an organization that offers tours for compensation, as the proposed legislation now defines? How do you certify those guides who give tours in foreign languages?
How does this proposed legislation affect the private tour 66 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 market, which is different than the public tour market? The differences are vast in the two market segments. Yet, the proposed legislation deals with them as if they were universally the same. And the largest concern to the members of TOPS, the Tour Operators of Philadelphia, how does this proposed legislation impact the current private tour guides in the City, many of whom entered the industry at the nation's bicentennial, some more than 30 years ago, and are now currently planning retirement? Might this proposed legislation be the impetus to push them into premature retirement before the industry is ready to replace them? Might this proposed legislation deter others from entering the profession? TOPS would like to see these questions studied by the City or the Convention and Visitors Bureau or other such entity with a vested interest in the City's group tour market. 67 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 The member companies of TOPS will continue to support the spirit of this well-intended proposed legislation, but we cannot support it going to the full City Council yet and out of this Committee. In summary, our commitment still stands to improve the tour guide experience in Philadelphia. However, these very important questions still need to be answered before an application and a test create a better guide. Thank you.
Thank you very much for your testimony. We'll start with Councilman Curtis Jones with questioning.
Yes. First of all, thank you for taking your time out to enlighten this Committee about the --
I'm sorry. No. 68 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 I'm Michael Walsh from Centipede Tours. Mark spoke for the TOPS organization. I have a couple thoughts I just want to bring up.
Why don't you put your remarks on the record and then we'll move to the questioning.
It's just to highlight a couple things. I think Mark brings up a very good point about rushing into this. The manual going to be -- who is going to put it together, when is it 69 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 going to be done, how much time is it going to be to study? Also, the testing for the TOPS organization groups, the testing that would be done by the City is not going to be enough. Because Centipede Tours has been in operation since 1979 and we have a test that, on average, takes two and a half to three hours for each proposer, possible guide, to pass or to take, and then from there they also have to pass a tour test, meaning they have to be able to go out and give a tour and get passed by our senior guide. So are we going to make this just a general A, B, C, D test or are we going to make it a comprehensive test, and then how long will that last? See, our guides, on average, are 11 years of experience. We have college professors. It's different with a private tour group as opposed to a public tour organization, because the public tours are more seasonal work, as I think was brought up, 70 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 but also they overflow, meaning like each year new guides are brought in. They flip over. And so that's where one little difference is between a private and a public tour, and we would like to see like the testing take part of that, but also we would like to have the manual to have all of the necessary -- or have the continuing education to be done in such a way that it is not going to cost other companies -- cost the private companies too much money, because if we have to buy these manuals each year or if we have to pay our guides to go for this study session, then we're going to be in a hole at the beginning of each year. Once again, the TOPS organization supports this, but we just needed to have all the information. We need to maybe take -- our thought is to take a little time.
Just to get all the details set. 71 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024
Okay, then. Thank you for offering your testimony, and I will address a few of the issues raised, but we'll first have questioning remarks from Councilmembers. Councilman Jones.
Again, I want to thank you guys for taking time out of your busy day. You could be out doing tours making some money, but have come in to raise some concerns relative to this Committee's bill. Do I understand generally you support this ordinance with the provisions that you've made?
We support the spirit of it. We are certainly always looking for ways to improve the tour guide experience in Philadelphia. We don't necessarily believe that an application and test is going to make a better guide. You heard Mr. Avery say that a guide has the right to say whatever they want and will continue to 72 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 say whatever they want or remember whatever facts they do or don't long after a test is over. So we don't necessarily believe that taking a test and wearing a badge will now make you a better guide, but we are certainly in support of growing the experience and improving the experience in Philadelphia.
And collectively you guys represent how many years of experience in tour guide?
Well, our company has been in operation since 1975. We've been the owners since 1979. So that's 29 years.
If you add up the experience of our guides, where the average guide has 11 years experience and we represent a repertoire of nearly 100 guides, we have a thousand years of experience amongst our companies.
Okay. Question: What month -- I'm a tourist in 73 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 Philadelphia, just came here, first time.
In the group tour industry, we have peaks in April, May and early June.
No. You misunderstand my question. What relevant month are we in?
There you go. So I got a little test. Who is the Fresh Prince?
In the 4th Councilmanic District in Overbook. Wait a minute. Who is Gui Bluford? (No response.)
He's the first African-American astronaut and went to school at Overbrook in the 4th Councilmanic District. Who is Wilt Chamberlain? That's an easy one.
Wrong. In the 4th Councilman District. There is a 75 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 historic plaque off of Allegheny Avenue that dedicates that fact. University of Penn takes credit for it, but actually it was designed in the 4th Councilmanic District. That is inaccurate. Let me go on a little bit. You know who Sonia Sanchez is, right? No?
She's an African-American poet who has reached national -- international recognition and at Temple University -- I think in your district, right, in the 5th Councilmanic District? I'm going to give up an easy one. Bill Cosby? I could go on and on, but I won't. My point to you is that there needs to be -- when I travel -- and I travel. I've been around the world, been around the world, and I've been a part of a number of the diversity committees for the Convention Center and other things. There needs to be a uniform diversity 76 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 that appeals to all people. There needs to be points that you should know 4 about every culture when they experience 5 the relevance of being in this great 6 city. 7 So uniformity is important. I 8 understand the economic problems and some 9 of the problems you raised. Okay? But I 10 am dead serious about supporting some 11 uniformity, because the question I asked 12 in the previous questions was whether you 13 choose to come back to a city, and as an 14 ethnic minority, that feeling of welcome, 15 that feeling of diversity, that feeling 16 of neighborhood -- and we are a city of 17 neighborhoods. 18 How many neighborhoods are in 19 the City of Philadelphia? 20 (No response.)
Okay. There are 103 by, I understand, the Planning Commission designated in the City of Philadelphia, ranging from Germantown to -- give me some from the 4th or the 77 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 7th. Give me some.
All right? Okay. So these are things that are relevant. When I travel, one of the interesting things about -- unique about the city of neighborhoods is that if you're from Philly, I can say North Philly, and we'll be in an airport. We'll share a seat in the airport and we'll say, What part, and he'll say, North Philly. Then I'll say, What section. He'll say, Strawberry Mansion. I'll say, What block, and there is inevitably a family, a big family, that he could probably trace history with. And that's one of the unique characters about the neighborhoods in the City of Philadelphia. There is a book called "Roots of Violence in Black Philadelphia" from 78 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 1860 to 1900s. It's written by an author named Roger Lane. I suggest you get that book. It documents the migration of particularly African-Americans to the City of Philadelphia. Did you know that in South Philadelphia it was called Little Africa? Did you know that?
Good. That's a bonus question point for you. And there was a section in the Public Ledger, which was a newspaper at the time, that wrote about the exploits of Little Africa. Now, to you that may be a little known African-American history fact that has very little relevance in the total story of this great city, but to me, it's important. And to some degree, all of you owe it to yourselves and to the people who experience Philadelphia to know some of that. Thank you. 79 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024
I'm an owner of my company. I am not a tour guide. I would actually not be subject to this license. I actually went on the Quest for Freedom tour two Saturdays ago to trace the black history in Philadelphia for personal growth. It was a wonderful experience. And if I had one of my guides who leads our black history tours in Philadelphia here, she would have passed all your questions.
Linda Kramer. Similar to what Mark says, we incorporate different ethnic cultures along our public tour route to the extent 80 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 that we pass by them on the tour route. There is a limit to what you can say. We also have specialty tours for not only our trolleys and double-decker buses, but believe it or not, for our 20-minute carriage tour for African-American culture that we offer to groups, because there is that history there. So it's difficult to draw the line and the balance when you're trying to fit information in. Everybody has specific things they like. But we agree with you in that spirit and that content that we do try to address those issues.
There needs to be -- you guys -- understand this: You may well be setting the standard for that type of inclusion, but shouldn't everybody that offers themselves as a tourist know a little bit about a major portion of the population here? And what I'm saying to you is, this legislation helps to define, like you've attempted to do, the diversity of this great city, of 81 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 this great city. I walk through the halls of just this building and I'm in awe of its history. It needs to be accurately depicted and uniformly understood by enough people so that the story that the Mayor keeps talking about being told is told correctly. A hundred years ago, the Centennial Group, great Philadelphians, decided that that story needed to be told to the world and got the world to come here for the centennial celebration. There were nine million visitors to the City of Philadelphia at that time. Nine million.
And guess where they came? The 4th Councilmanic District. All right? So what I'm saying to you, we need to tell that story accurately in this day and time. We need 82 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 to continue to give a positive face to the story that is Philadelphia, including all aspects, all populations, all genres, all cultures. And if we can do that -- to me, diversity is to culture as seasoning is to food. Without it, we'd be very bland. So I want to make sure that it's standardized. That is the reason why I support this bill. That is the reason why everybody should know a little bit about a lot of things, particularly in your industry. And I encourage you -- we can find a million reasons why we should do analysis, paralysis on this ordinance, but there are -- we can get it right over time. And if we don't get it right the first time, we have the ability to amend it, don't we? But we need to move forward on this, and we need to move forward on this because it makes sense for the experience of all visitors that come here to know the right story. 83 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 I said to some people privately, history is different than his story. We need to get it right.
Councilman Jones highlighted or at least underscored an issue raised by a number of us during our task force meetings and, that is, making sure that all of the history of Philadelphia is told. The way we've decided to work our way through that is to, at the suggestion of members of the committee, start small, start in a designated area, and for reasons of implementation, start in a councilmanic district. It was determined, again, by information shared by members of the committee that the district traveled the most in the City of Philadelphia is Councilman Frank DiCicco's district, which is why the bill says we will start small in that district for Phase I, recognizing that this is not a 100 percent effort and we don't have all of the answers at this door. Thus, Phase I, 84 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 which is a part of the amendment. Phase II, we will take it citywide to ensure that all historical cultural sites of Philadelphia ultimately get the same treatment and that that becomes a standard baseline of information that every tour operator should be familiar with. Now, a number of legitimate questions have been raised. Let me attempt to address a few of them. We decided at our last meeting that this bill would exempt out-of-area tour guides. So this bill does not in any way impact on tour guides that come from other municipalities, as determined at our last meeting. For the first time I'm hearing guided tour versus escorted tour. So please help me understand the difference. What is the difference?
There are many groups who arrive in Philadelphia. They'll get off their bus in the historic 85 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 district with a tour escort or tour guide by that name and they have an itinerary for an hour and a half. They'll move from their bus to the Visitor Center, from the Visitor Center to the Liberty Bell, from the Liberty Bell to Independence Hall and over to Franklin Court into the Bourse for lunch and out the City they go again. I have never told them dates, times, places, styles of architecture, but I shepherd them. I move them. I kept them on schedule. They listened to the National Park rangers tell their story. I would be considered a guide. I could potentially be fined for moving that group without a license.
So what you're suggesting is that we need to put in the body of this bill a -- we need to define what a guided tour is and we need to define what an escorted tour is and hold harmless escorted tours. Is that what I'm hearing? 86 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024
Correct. And back to your last point, Councilwoman, about the out-of-area guides, where does that line get drawn? Because a guide comes from Bala Cynwyd, are they considered out of area, and where does that -- is geographic the way to define that or might there be a different way to define it?
Thank you very much. Why don't we ask Mr. Fritz to come to the witness table and help us work that through. While he moves to the table, what is the difference between a private tour versus a public tour?
I can answer that. Linda Kramer. The public tours would be the fixed route tour services that operate with multiple stops. The public can come up and buy a ticket and go on individually. 87 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 The private tours offered by my colleagues to the right, as well as our company, are where a group or individual charters you specifically to travel as a group and go on a tour. They'll have a tour guide escort a specific group and plan specialty tours or general tours like that where they travel as a group privately. They're not interacting with other groups from the public.
Am I hearing that there should be different treatment for one versus the other? Work that through for me. Clarify that for me.
Well, there's a different breadth and scope of what private tour guides speak about and know versus a tour guide who is staying on the same route traveling the same pathways all the time. Their discussions are determined really by the geography; whereas, private tours have any of a number of slants or topics or specialty 88 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 groups or geographic areas that they go through.
So why is it unreasonable to suggest that the baseline standard of information should be consistent across the board?
Well, I guess it would be determined by what the baseline standard of information would be. Certainly a horse-drawn carriage driver who is restricted to going no further west than 7th and Market Street in the City is not going to have potentially the base of knowledge of the Art Museum and the statues and things like that. It's almost unreasonable to ask them to be scholars, so to speak, on that information, but they should know the area where they're traveling; whereas, a tour guide that's doing private charters throughout the City or Center City or even a public tour guide in different venues needs a different menu. If you were to look at the tour 89 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 script for 76 Carriage Company, there is some general information on the City of Philadelphia, but it predominantly deals with the Independence National Historic Park, Society Hill and Old City, because, by previous Council legislation, that's where they're allowed to go.
So we try to make them experts in the area of which they're speaking. So that's one of the differentiations there. I think in what -- the devil is in the details, and like with other legislation, for example, just the whole mechanism of getting badges, we are licensed -- the carriage drivers are licensed. They expire March 31st. While this is a mundane fact for those sitting in Council, it almost crippled us this year. The machine broke. We didn't get our licenses until the end of August. Multiple times they were stopped by PPD and et cetera, given fines, tickets. We had to fight them. 90 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 Through no fault of them or us. We paid the fee. We did everything. But it took the City many, many months past the deadline to give them these licenses. So that's the kind of mechanisms that we think need to be in place to make this work smoothly, because as an operator, they're crippling, not to mention embarrassing and those types of things, because there's multiple jurisdictions as to who regulates you.
Question: Do any of the private or public tours currently operate outside of the district designated in this legislation?
Every single company would do something outside the district.
All right. 91 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 Okay. Any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Different question. You spoke about, quote, "fly-by-night" operators and the submission of training programs or tour scripts. Are you suggesting that they should be separate from -- that they should or should not be exempted from the exemption opportunity that would be available for those who believe their tour guide script is sufficient and meets the standards stipulated?
Those operators don't even have scripts that I refer to, but what we've seen in the industry is that you have companies that are established that follow the breadth and detail of the law. Because the City is large and really doesn't have oversight or the ability for oversight and be there every day, there is a segment of this --
-- industry that operates completely without the law. I think I will give the horse-drawn carriage as an example. There's a permitting process, et cetera, et cetera. We go through all these things. We've hired staff. We do that. Yet, every single day we see operators out there who completely disregard the law. But their chances of being caught are so remote that there's really no economic benefit for them to do that. So we'd like to not see that repeated in this legislation, because we are going to whatever legislation comes. We're reputable operators sitting at this table and anybody who has come here in Council. We are going to make every effort to follow the law. We're law-abiding, established companies. We have our reputations. There's others that are not. So before we are legislated almost out economically, we need to have a level playing field that everybody is going to 93 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 be treated that way.
That's the problem. I mean, if Councilman DiCicco was here, he could tell you that. He could -- he's got the whole depth of knowledge of the horse and carriage industry that you could -- it just goes on and on.
Yeah, I could write a book about it. It just goes on and on and on, and we're to the point now where we just -- when people call to complain about them, we deal with it even though it's not our issue, because it makes our industry look bad, and that's what we don't want to see revisited.
Another question I have here are volunteer tour guides versus all the others. Talk about them again.
I had that in my 94 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 testimony prior to hearing of today's amendment, but when this bill was originally -- my intent today with the bill was looking at the Center City tourist district, which encompassed a larger area than this amendment now does, and there is a group from the Mural Arts Tours that actually are volunteer guides even though the company itself does tours for compensation.
There's much of my testimony I actually didn't mention as a result of the amendment.
And how would those Mural Arts guides impact -- for example, they step on Philadelphia Trolley Works trolleys to give their tours. We are chartered by the Mural Arts group to be the transportation for their tours. So am I in violation if I'm operating the vehicle and a volunteer 95 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 guide is on there giving a tour that I don't have licensed? It's those kind of details that --
Sure. That's a detail that we did discuss in great detail at one of our meetings, and I clearly have to go back and check my notes, but if my memory serves me correctly, we said that volunteer tour guides that come under the jurisdiction of another institution like the Art Museum, like the Mural Arts would not be subject to this legislation. I'll check my notes. We're going to move this bill 17 out of Committee today with the clear understanding that we have some additional work to do. But I will go back and check my notes, because we gave great discussion to that world of the industry. Okay? Any other comments, observations, remarks by members of this Committee? 96 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 (No response.)
Any comments, other observation -- let me say this also: We gave a survey out to members of the committee so that we could benefit from this kind of feedback. It's a rhetorical question. I don't know if you answered it. I will go back and check my notes to see if you did. We met since last April to have an opportunity to walk through, talk to, dissect all of the intimate issues that come with making this bill right. Some of these issues I just heard for the first time today. So we're moving it out of Committee. We've done all we can do in terms of being inclusive with regards to participation. I recognize that we still have work to do, because nothing is 100 percent, but we are moving this bill out of Committee today. So I'll take your testimony and still seek to address the questions 97 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 you've raised, because it's clear that some additional amendments have to happen. Thank you very much all for your testimony and input.
You're welcome. Anyone else to -- thank you, Fritz. I think we covered that. Anyone else to remark, comment, offer testimony on Bill No. 080024? (No response.)
We'll give members of the Committee a few minutes just to make sure they're clear about the amendments being offered this afternoon. (Pause.)
Okay. I would like to ask Councilman Jones, if he would, to please make a motion on the amendment to Bill No. 080024.
I move for 98 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 the adoption of the amended bill, 080024.
Can I hear a second on that? (Duly seconded.) (Off-the-record discussion between Councilman Clarke and Councilman Jones.)
I move for the adoption of the amendment for Bill 11 080024. This is the first time I did this.
And that's okay. Guess what? We sat in that seat one time, too. (Duly seconded.)
Could I please now ask Councilman Jones to please 99 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 make a motion on the amended bill.
I move for the adoption of the amended bill, 080024. (Duly seconded.)
Therefore, Bill No. 080024 has been moved and properly seconded. Bill No. 080024 will be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation and further moved that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at the next scheduled session of Philadelphia City Council. We thank you all for your participation and your input. The mission continues. Thank you very much. (Committee on Parks, Recreation 100 2/20/08 - PARKS - BILL 080024 and Cultural Affairs adjourned at 11:45 a.m.) - - - 101 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on February 20, 2008, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)