entrepreneurs like, let me see, Mark Lamont Hill from Uncle Bobby's,
Janine Cook from Harriet's Book of War, etc. Have any of those folks you just mentioned,
have they had any conversation with Mr. Laver's client? No, but just to serve you, which is at
57th and Girard, they have. And for whatever reason, it fell apart. And I don't know what
that reason was. If you can summarize, I'd appreciate it. Thank you. We have a list of
other folks that want to spend. I'm sure. And one of the challenges that we have with a lot of the
fast food restaurants that have been proposed, including Popeyes, are that these will not pay
family-sustaining wages. And moreover, they're not going to attract more businesses to our
business corridor. It makes it very difficult for us to say to other places that we are a
neighborhood that welcomes walkability and environmental justice and democracy when we
have yet another place that is not showing our neighborhood to be fun and interesting. And we're
looking at places like Brewery Town, we're looking at places like West Parkside, and unfortunately,
the proposals that we've received are not in that character. Again, we've been working with
Mr. Goldstein for three years, and none of the places that he's, except for Justice Erview,
have been are in any way remotely appealing to East Parkside residents. So I have to wonder,
who is this drive-thru for? This drive-thru isn't work. I'm sorry, Chair, if I could interject that
we call time i hate to be disrespectful i understand ma'am we didn't start the case
the full listing yet thank you okay well i'm gonna thank you very much so let me let me ask
you this ma'am is the what is is is the fact that it's a drive-thru restaurant is that driving the
opposition yes okay all right thank you if it were a window we would love it mr mr chairman
members of the board um out of true respect for ms mcfadden um i i have uh hit my lip from uh
objecting repeatedly to statements made uh which are in many ways inflammatory and um
pure set uh but uh her position itself is is one that uh as i stated earlier
unfortunately had to agree to disagree. I am concerned that at the first meeting
there was reference made verbally and in correspondence submitted to the board
that there were 44 neighbors who attended and 44 opposed. I realize it's difficult for RCOs to
count votes and opinions particularly in a virtual setting. I observed as a participant
that there were some who were in support at that meeting.
So I question that,
but in the interest of time and respect for everyone,
I don't wish to cross-examine anyone at this point in time.
cross-examine anyone at this point in time. I do see that Mr. Simmons, who I wanted to speak earlier,
I do see that Mr. Simic
appeared to be able to unmute. I don't know if the board wants to call him back or not.
Mr. Simmons, are you available?
Your hand is up, but you're still muted.
That's a shame. There we go. There he is. Hold on. I think he's on now. Mr. Simmons?
Yes. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record. Spell your last name and
provide us with your address. My name is Charles Simmons. S-I-M-M-O-N-S. Address,
4216 Parkside Avenue. Thank you. You swear and affirm to tell the truth,
the whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Laver. Thank you, sir,
for being with us today. Could you please share your thoughts as in your neighbor regarding the
proposed uh use and the request for special exception relief that's before the board
well i've been living here in parkside for almost 11 years also i'm the vice president
of the east parkside association also uh i'm a member of the rco committee
um also i am a member of the sixth war division as a committee person my observation of traffic
i i live in the area there's not a lot of traffic at all with school i'll be down at the corner
or 4th and Gerard,
there's always police officers
there.
There's no heavy traffic
at that location at all.
At nighttime,
there's no traffic, heavy traffic
at all.
I walked the whole entire
East Parkside area in my neighborhood.
The location that Mr.
Steinberg is trying to
develop
I think is a beautiful thing.
they put in business in our community also developing jobs for our our youth
thank you thank you very much anyone else
yes chair we have a mr scott mr scott you can unmute yourself
While we're waiting for him, we have Ms. Logan, Ms. Logan, you can unmute yourself.
Good morning, Ms. Logan, please identify yourself with the record.
Yes. Pastor Lorraine Logan, 3938-40, West Gerrard Avenue, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 19104.
You swear and affirm will tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
I affirm.
Thank you.
Yes. I have my church and I have been in the area of Gerrard Avenue for eight years now.
and I'm I just listened to the testimony of the last gentleman and I'm not sure what it is
that he has seen but I am at our building many days of the week different times of the week
whether it's a Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday or Saturday and the traffic is
horrific every single day. We have congestion because of the Philadelphia Zoo, the School of
the Future. There are several churches that are just corners away from each other, as well as the
restaurants that are there. And then we have our residents that are in the neighborhood. We have
had parking issues since I've been there for the eight years, and it's only gotten worse. There is
not a day besides the pandemic where there is not an hour where there's not consistent stop and go
for me to get from 39th and Gerard to 76 east or west literally could take anywhere from 10
to 15 minutes on any given day including Sundays because the zoo is now operating heavily heavily
on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays.
We have had parking issues and congestions,
We have had parking issues and congestions, whether we've had services, whether we've had funerals, whether we've had weddings.
whether we've had services,
To put a drive-through in this particular location will be total chaos, along with the existing chaos that is there.
I am actually on the block of the proposed restaurant drive-through and just looking at the accidents that we've witnessed,
the accidents that even some of our church members have been involved in, that would not
be a good fit for what we are already fighting and are up against. And then considering, I saw
the draft, there are nine spots that they are considering in that parking lot. Where will the
employees park versus the customers? Once again, they will be parking on residential street parking.
where does the residence park at this particular time to bring up Popeye's in particular because
that's the only store that I have heard mention of it is not the best restaurant because it brings
a certain type of people that's that's that's that's speculation there okay that's that's fine
but to bring it there if we consider any drive-through whether on coming through on 40th
street. Those are two lane streets. One goes up, one goes down. What if, hypothetically,
there are 20 people trying to get into the drop through? What does the traffic do? Can we get
past without going into the wrong lane to go around cars? So I'm not really sure if we have
considered all of these other adjectives to just a simplicity of coming up with an approximate
number of 20 cars during 10 o'clock. Who's to say that it's going to be 10 cars, 20 cars, 50 cars,
a backup with the congestion that we are already currently dealing with that has not been resolved.
So I'm not sure where people are getting their information from if they're not involved in the
community, if they're not living there to actually see what we go through on a consistent basis
every single day. And with the world coming back to normancy or the new norm, we can only imagine
what this area will look like once we are back at 100% to the schools, to the recreational centers,
to the police touch museum. So in my opinion, because I am a living witness as to what really
happens on Gerard Avenue, it's just not a good fit for us. Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you.
Mr. Lieber?
Yes, Mr. Chairman, just a few quick questions for Pastor Logan.
Pastor Logan, thank you for being with us today.
How large is your congregation?
Pastor Logan?
Pastor Logan, you're still muted.
You have to unmute yourself.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Our congregation is about 150, but on a given Sunday, anywhere from 75 to 100.
people will come because we do have some that work every other Sunday. So we have a mixed
organization that comes into our church on Sundays. Thank you, Pastor. And do you have
many members who are coming in from other locations throughout the city and beyond?
We actually have members from West Philly, North Philadelphia, Roosevelt Boulevard, Chester,
Delaware and New Jersey that attends our church we're kind of like the center of of the area where
they come from north south east and west it does sound like you're you're pulling people in from
many locations and and uh it parking must be a real issue right now for worship services
OK, so the Philadelphia Zoo has been kind to us. We were able to utilize a small lot at the School of the Future entrance up until a year.
no two years now um there is another church that rents out the auditorium and they had gained
access to two of the parking lots where we only had access to one so our congregants um
they come a little later because they leave out at 12 our service starts at 11 30
so we actually have a gag time in our service time while people are trying to find parking
spaces we do we have been able to utilize the block um with the church we actually had to meet
with the pastor of the church to ask him to stop uh as
of the church to ask him to stop as a courtesy to allow his members to leave our parking spaces,
which were directly in front of the lots that we own. The gentleman that owns the two properties
next to ours all way up until the corner, they actually used to take our spots as well because
they started a little bit earlier than we did. And as a courtesy, I met with him just so he can
that is congregation to be friendly, knowing that we have parking issues, not just with that,
but the individuals that do not like to pay for zoo parking, they actually park on our streets
so that they can avoid paying the $10 or the $15 of zoo parking charge. So we've had,
they will work with them on Saturdays. I don't mean to cut you short. I think you made the point.
I appreciate what you're describing about an existing issue.
One last question, Pastor.
You've made some public statements regarding concern,
regarding bringing in a, quote, certain caliber of people to this location.
Could you describe what you mean by that?
Ma'am, you're still muted.
You need to unmute.
I'm so sorry.
When I when I think of certain restaurants, certain restaurants bring certain people to the restaurant based on taste, based on need, based on recipe.
i noticed that if there was a chick-fil-a and this and this is really about the drive-through
but i will answer your question uh attorney lavar um they will bring uh a different type
of people there and people of color in particular which i am a person of color
they like chicken i like chicken too but where are we going where are we going with this testimony
I'm not sure, Mr. Adams, and I would like for him to bring me, because he's been very
strategic in what he's been presenting.
I wanted to share with the board that I think that there are some improper concerns being
brought into the discussion, but thank you, Professor Logan.
I have a question that may have been asked the last time.
How many employees, how many people would be employed at this, if this were approved?
How many people will be employed there?
The hope, Mr. Chairman and members of the board, is to employ from the community that have people.
I understand that. What's the number of employees?
At any one time, six to eight.
Six to eight? Is it 24-7?
There's no intention right now of that.
We're trying to market the property to a suitable, respectable business that will be compatible.
It really does, Mr. Chairman, and don't forget, and I put this on the record at the first hearing, David has nine residential apartments right above this, so he can't cannibalize himself by having something that doesn't work well.
But I do understand that one of our witnesses, Latia Jones, is trying to speak if the board is willing.
Chair, this is Tanya.
If I could mention, we still have four hands up for this case.
I know.
I mean, we haven't even gotten to our regular list yet.
um it's your call chair but i do see andrew goodman representing the let's get right thank
you thank you mr goodman i don't want to buy anyone but we are really stretched out on time
here mr goodman uh you're still sworn in from earlier today just identify yourself for the
record yes andrew goodman g-o-o-d-m-a-n here representing the office of third district
Councilmember Jamie Gaudier. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. The Councilmember stands in opposition
to this special exception application. In the interest of brevity, I will try to summarize
and only add new data points. So the topic of congestion has been the main focus of conversation.
I think it's important to state here that this evidence of congestion is not just anecdotal.
In fact, Mayor Jim Kenney's Vision Zero initiative has data to back this up.
This property sits at the intersection of three corridors that are already listed on the city's high injury network.
As this board may already know, 80% of all traffic deaths and serious injuries occur on just 12% of...
80% of all traffic deaths and serious injuries occur on just 12% of Philadelphia streets,
and these precise stretches of 40th Street, Girard Avenue, and Parkside Avenue are all
three streets that are part of this 12%. I'm happy to share my screen and enter this map
in as an exhibit if the board would like me to, but suffice to say this has been a target
of the mayor's initiative to eliminate traffic fatalities and the proposal for a business
with a drive-through that will inevitably create new and unpredictable traffic patterns will run
counter to those priorities. We can talk about, you know, provisos that might mitigate that burden
all we want, but our office would argue that if we have the chance to actually prevent that burden
from presenting itself in the first place, that we should take that chance. I'd also like to add
here that there is a conflict with SEPTA uses as well. This intersection sees more than 1,000
and SEPTA riders per day,
which is a count that's higher
than most regional rail stations.
Would we put a drive-through entrance
right next to regional rail tracks?
I don't think we would,
especially in a case where the majority